EPTMr. Wiggles Mini Mafia I - Page 2
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
I've never stated that mafia are inconsistent, or consistent for that matter. I did attack the fact that you used inconsistency as a basis for labeling me, however. In my experience, mafia tend (note the word tend, is not always the case) to be contradictory - hence my desire to appear non-contradictory. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
Surprise! It's Jaybrundage. Let's go through this step by step. On December 24 2011 07:57 jaybrundage wrote: Hey guys, Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house. Ok lets get started. On policy lynches i think that there fine guidelines for how we should act and at the same time we should not follow them blindly and be the main reason we lynch someone.1 Onto the good stuff. I think that the sephirotharg case is an interesting one. I do find his first post suspicious. Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency.2 I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that.3 ##Vote sephirotharg Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something4 1: Interesting how his first substantive post opens with a justification for his seeming lurking. He continues on to say they are "good guidelines" but backs off from this stance by saying they shouldn't be the reason we lynch somebody. I've been accused of preemptively defending my lurking; well, I'm leveling the same charge at Jay. 2: Soft-claiming that lurking is ok is anti-town, right? Then why did you just try to excuse your own lurking? That's anti-town behavior as well. 3: You say that there's no reason for a mafia to vote for their self. Then, realizing that you just implied that I was a townie, you back up and try to posit that there's no reason for a townie to vote for their self. Then you just give up and say you are confused. How does any of this help the town? You argue that my self-vote was a distraction but it's you who attempts to distract the town with this nonsense paragraph. 4: "I seem to want to be voting for the way I'm acting?" What does that even mean? And then you appeal to me to do something, anything at all. Why? You'd prefer for others to be active, if you are mafia. If I'm doing all the talking, you don't have to contribute. This post is basically a nothing post. Jay tries to excuse his own lurking (and then lurks rather a lot after this, having only 2 additional posts of any length. For a game that's almost 2 days old at this point that is a paltry contribution) and then confuses the issue by saying that my actions make no sense. He reiterates reasons others have laid out for my post seeming scummy but fails to expand on those reasons. On December 24 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote: Alright sep you just got a warning. As of now i see as scum and you have a lot of votes on you. Plz address these concerns. And it would be great for you to give your scum reads. As we have about 2 and a half hours till deadline. If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum. Give us everything you got this is the time you can change the vote. Now or never. Oh and in case my nonbolded vote doesnt count. ##Vote Sephirotharg I received a warning. Thanks for stating the obvious. Then you say I had "a lot of votes" on myself. At this point, the votes numbered 4, one of which was my own placeholder. 3 votes is "a lot?" No, you just want me to perceive it that way so I panic and mess up. This is further compounded by the fact that you say we have only 2 hours left - an outright lie. Could you have made a mistake? Certainly. But does it benefit you to put more pressure on me? Yes. And then you conclude by asking me for my scum reads - when you yourself haven't contributed at all beyond restating what other people have said. On December 24 2011 09:58 jaybrundage wrote: The Sephirotharg so called bandwagon is going so well because hes had some huge scum tells. If you dont realize this then you should reread his posts. I stated why i think hes scummy. You state its stupid but please do explain that. Dont you think its weird that Sephirotharg instead of defending himself that he just leaves? And the votes for himself just not to get modkilled however he knows people are voting for him but he ignores it. He is much more likly to be lynched at this point. The part where he edited a post to appear innocent is pretty much nailing him the coffin. A townie would not have to be so conscious of his posts because he has nothing to hide. He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think. And if you want to make a case on me go for it. So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later. You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches. And here you just restate what has already been said. Both of your main points against me have already been noted by this time, by Shraft and Adam a few posts above yours. And then you attack Misder, even though his vote is obviously a pressure vote. You even acknowledge as much by saying "You then vote for me with practically nothing". You lurk, then make excuses for it. You distract the town from the actual issues, and merely restate points that have already been said. And you react aggressively when the flimsiest of votes is pushed against you. And you push for an early, not fully reasoned-out lynch. None of this behavior makes sense from a town perspective, but it is classic mafia play. I have my doubts about others, most notably Shraft, but since Jay's response amounts to "it wasn't a sheep vote" he is my prime suspect at this point in time. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote: Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
On December 25 2011 05:38 jaybrundage wrote: Jay- I have stated multiply times i think it was a distraction. There was no reason for you to vote for your self. It only serves to confuse people and make people second guess there own vote. Giygas stated himself that he had no idea what to think of it. Well, sure. Giygas didn't know what to think. Others understood it, mainly Misder, who told everyone we should consider it null. I've also laid out my reasons for voting for myself. So this is just a difference of opinion here. Jay- It means you have been acting scummy. I want you to be active because a active town is a healthy town that can find mafia. I would prefer everyone to be active so we can catch scum when they slip. Hypocrisy. The only times you have been active are 1) when you were pursuing my lynch and 2) when you yourself are the focus of scrutiny. Other than that, you have been lurking. You say you want an active town, and defy that with your actions. Are you really town then? Jay- I wanted to get your post asap because i thought we only had two hours. I turned out to be mistaken. Why would i lie about the deadline. That would just be plain dumb. I gave my scum read and its you. You defense was lackluster. It at some points didn't even make sense. Quoting Emerson seems like a stretch. I agree, lying about the deadline would be dumb. Which is why I'm calling you out on it. If you had actually made a mistake, you would have apologized, or acknowledged the fact shortly thereafter. Instead you attack Misder and myself in the space of one post, without mentioning your "mistake" at all. Seems fishy to me. And I'm not going to let you get away with merely saying "defense was lackluster". If you really think so, why don't you analyze it? This strikes me as the kind of generality that a mafia would say. Quoting Emerson was flavor, nothing more. Is it a stretch? Maybe. Does it make me mafia? No. Jay- I have not lurked. And I have not made excuses for it. I have defensed my self thoroughly because i am not mafia. I have pushed your lynch because you are the scummiest person atm. Poor grammar aside, this is an outright lie. I count 12 posts from you as of this reply. Of these 12, the first 3 are pregame fluff. The next 4 come in the space of a couple of hours, and deal primarily with my first post. The next 5 come about 17 hours later by my count, and are focused on defending yourself. That's only 9 posts in the actual game (two or three of which are one-liners), and significant gaps between the posts. Sure, you have to sleep, that's fine. But 9 posts in 2 days of play does not seem active to me, especially given the content of said posts. Jay- This is VERYYY interesting. You previously said that you found Drikzor and Shraft suspicious which is down below HOWEVER you push onto me after seeing that other people are doing so. Ever since Drikzor came off your lynch wagon you dont even mention him. And you switch from Shraft who you though was suspicious to me. You are incorrect here. I said previously that I was suspicious of anyone that voted so quickly for me - in that context, specifically Dirk, Shraft and Giygas. That was on page 5, however, and I laid out my case for you on page 9. The time gap between those pages was what, a day or so? Plenty of time for my opinions to change and solidify. After seeing the others' case on you, I looked back at your filter and found you to be rather scummy. So I laid out my case against you. Rest assured, you were not the only one I looked at, however, and you aren't the only one I have suspicions about. And you are ignoring the fact that at the end of my case against you I specifically call out Shraft as another suspicious person. Dirk and Giygas I'm less sure of, and therefore I'm not willing at this time to reveal my thoughts. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
##Vote jaybrundage Now that that's done, I'll post my brief thoughts on everyone in the game, because my lynching appears imminent. Here we go (this post was started several hours ago, bear that in mind): Grackaroni: I'm getting a green vibe off Grack. He encourages everyone to share, seems to be acting for the town in general and put some thought into his case against me. I'm concerned at his lack of activity recently, and the fact that his case against me seemed to come almost out of nowhere (according to his posts, that is), but I'd still peg him as green. Adam4167: I'm not entirely sure about Adam. His case against me was somewhat thoughtful, and he seems interested in finding scum. On the other hand he's not worked hard at scumhunting beyond looking at me, and he has dropped off the face of the earth recently. hyshes: Too little of his to really judge. I'm not sure, mainly because he just jumped on the bandwagon against me, and because he's contributed nothing to the town, but with so few posts I'm not ready to say one way or another yet. Shraft: I'm feeling like Shraft is a bit more mafia-esque. He seemed quick to vote for me, then didn't really explain himself except for the feeling that my post was "scummy". And when the focus shifts to Jay, Shraft seems to mostly ignore his faults and tries to refocus the group on me. Other than that he's not been tremendously active or contributory, which is why I'm leaning mafia for him. Giygas: I can't get a solid read on Giygas. He appears to be working to find out who the scum is, but not terribly hard. None of his posts have been truly substantive, yet I'm not ready to say he's red yet. In fact, I feel like he's green, but I'd not bet my life on it (lol). Misder: Green. He's actively working to scumhunt, and has analyzed both of the current contenders for lynching (me and Jay). His actions thus far seem pro-town. minus_human: 3 posts, none of which deal with the current situation. I've no idea. Echelon_Tee: Also green. He contributed an analysis of me to the group, two in fact. Come to think of it, he hasn't said anything with regard to jay. Either way, I feel he's interested in finding the actual scum, so I'd say he is green. Cyber_Cheese: town seems more likely, but I'm not sold on his innocence yet. He puts his FoS on me early and then just watches events unfold, until the case comes up against Jay. He hops on the bandwagon pretty quickly there. I feel that a townie would have taken a closer look at me than he did. That said, I'm leaning towards town for him. jaybrundage: You know my feelings with regard to him. Dirkzor: Feels green to me. He does vote for me quickly, this is true. But later he runs down reasons for everyone's votes and tries to spur discussion about who to lynch. Nothing sticks out to me, so he seems town. So the three I'd peg as mafia, at this point in time, are: jay, shraft, and one of the lurkers (hyshes or minus_human). | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
On December 25 2011 08:52 hyshes wrote: pretty easy. Sep is making no sense whatsoever. I'm not gonna allow him to screw around here a bit and then get away with it. All he did up to now is anti-town. His case on you was no case, it was a dull replica. He didn't do anything. And about the case on you. Its based on things i don't see in your posts. No real explanation, just general feelings. That doesn't cut it here. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
On December 25 2011 10:03 Shraft wrote: Just read through jay's filter twice. Sure, there is some faulty logic and poor reasoning in some of his posts, but nothing that really stands out as scummy behaviour to me. I'm sticking with my vote on sephirotharg. I don't like his preemptive excuses, I don't like how he tries to twist his initial suspicious behaviour into something pro-town, I don't like how he stretches everything a bit too far in his case against jaybrundage, and I don't like how he says that he is an inexperienced player in his first post, then says it was a play to catch scum looking for an easy vote, and then invokes his noobiness in his defense later on. Noobs don't make clever traps in order to bait out scum. On the contrary, that is exactly what noobs do. They try tricky, clever plays that usually don't pan out. Which is what I've done here, we can agree. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
On December 25 2011 06:49 GiygaS wrote: A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. What townie wouldn't care about staying alive? A townie has two goals: 1. Stay alive 2. Find scum The first is paramount, as without it you cannot find scum. By staying alive, the townie can help scumhunt as well as aid in the fulfillment of their win condition. So I would expect any townie to work hard to stay alive, as I myself am doing. | ||
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
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sephirotharg
United States91 Posts
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