TL Mafia XLVIII

On December 04 2011 15:36 Hier wrote:

Was yours in a red colour?

On December 04 2011 19:38 Palmar wrote:
What I'm more interested in is that 6/25 seems like an oddly high number of mafia for a normal setup. Do you think this is offset by lower mafia KP or multiple town power roles?

On December 04 2011 21:15 Radfield wrote:
Other than starting discussion, I think RNG has very little value.

RNG: 2

##Vote prplhz

On December 05 2011 00:21 Radfield wrote:
but it was a way to organize blue roles like detectives and medics by directing them either into or away from the zodiac list.

On December 05 2011 00:31 Jackal58 wrote:
Using those rankings you determine who the scum team is by who is getting night killed. Strong players on the list should be dead by day 3 or so. If they're not they're scum.

On December 05 2011 00:39 Drazerk wrote:
I dislike randomly voting people at the start of day to spark discussion as it just allows the person to do a blind omgus rather than focusing on everyone.

On December 05 2011 00:44 annul wrote:
so either the red team is stacked weak with noobs or there are a lot of blues

On December 05 2011 00:57 TruthBringer wrote:
People are saying 6/25 is high, but it is probably offset by the town having powerful blues or quite a few blues.

On December 05 2011 01:52 prplhz wrote:

It might be early but I fail to see how it's a claim (and it isn't).

On December 05 2011 07:32 vaderseven wrote:
What do you think about some of the players positions or contributions Annul (spefically the redFF/Palmar situation, Corrupt, and Radfield).

On December 05 2011 02:56 Corrupt wrote:
This is not going to be easy... so many suspicious people already.

On December 05 2011 04:22 Corrupt wrote:
I pictured TruthBringer as one of the good guys, so I'm being suspicious about prplhz..

On December 05 2011 04:26 redFF wrote:
you said "so many suspicious people already" yet you now say you are only suspicious of prplz?

On December 06 2011 01:13 Palmar wrote:
I think you're bullshitting.

On December 06 2011 01:54 redFF wrote:
that was fucking stupid.

On December 06 2011 03:02 vaderseven wrote:
Is it really not instant modkill to post a fake day action here? Trust me that iceould never fake that.

Someone get the mod here! I want to see this flip.

On December 06 2011 03:57 Palmar wrote:


yeah sure once I've stopped laughing.

On December 06 2011 06:19 Palmar wrote:
Not a single one out of the people that actually try to play mafia with any kind of brain activity are trying to get me killed.

On December 06 2011 06:25 sandroba wrote:
Honestly I'd rather we no lynch today. I don't think killing Palmar is the solution, especially since no one is really defending him and he doesn't seem to give a shit. I can't really find someone that I feel has a better than random chance of flipping scum. I'm open to sugestions though.

On December 06 2011 08:23 supersoft wrote:
if she's a real girl, thats not a scumtell. Sorry folks. Girls contradict themselves all the time.

On December 07 2011 08:33 kingjames01 wrote:


Congrats on writing your final! How do you feel it went?

A summary of major events occurring between approximately 10 pm EST and now:

• There was a strong bandwagon forming on Hier based on nothing more than the "we need to kill SOMEONE" mentality.
  
• I finally got to post my analysis on Refallen with a few more lines tacked on denouncing him and attempting to pressure mafia into using more votes.
  
• Some discussion was still going on but the game was pretty silent.
  
• Hier flipped Vanilla Town.
  
• Drazerk claimed Roleblock Immune Medic who is forced to claim Night 1.
  
• Discussion on the motivation and timeline of vaderseven shooting Soap.
  
• Discussion on the veracity of Drazerk's claim.
  
• Discussion on the pros/cons of talking at night.
  
• Interspersed between these major events are players posting thoughts on each other.
  

Here are some of my thoughts before I post an in-depth analysis on specific players:

Hier flipping Vanilla Town -


Discussion on the motivation and timeline of vaderseven shooting Soap -
A simple question: is it normal that the kill order be posted in the thread and not required to be in a PM to the mods?

Talking at night:
If you have something important to share with the Town then you better get it into the thread. If you die we'll have more information from your flip and posts than if you took your secrets to the grave with you.

On December 07 2011 07:55 sandroba wrote:
@Annul Can you please point me to a game where you lasted a bit as scum, I'm in a mood to read right now.

On December 07 2011 21:46 kingjames01 wrote:
annul, what do you mean, you "asked"? Did you ask the mods how you were saved? Is that what you meant?

On December 08 2011 05:25 sandroba wrote:
If you are medic and protected annul please claim right now so we can lynch both of you. Have a good day.

On December 08 2011 13:29 sandroba wrote:
@Radfield I've read annul's game as scum and honestly his bevaiour is quite similar when he is both town and scum. So let me ask you a question: What can you assume about the setup given the new information we have been presented with so far?

On December 09 2011 05:20 Mattchew wrote:
annul, say you do get lynched (looking more and more likely) whats your scum list if you flip town?

On December 09 2011 05:37 TruthBringer wrote:
The way I see it, Erandorr is most likely to be mafia.

On December 09 2011 05:52 Drazerk wrote:
Just post it now doing what you are doing now is going to make everyone want to lynch you more causing an imminent death regardless

On December 09 2011 09:01 annul wrote:
radfield: who is MOST town in your eyes?

On December 09 2011 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok to make this clear. I would LOVE to shoot drazerk or erandorr. To be honest mostly drazerk but I don't think that will prove a thing because the majority is not thinking so as well.
I'd say prplhz is the biggest consensus (looked that word up in a dictionary, sounds fancy). I think he's scummy as hell and a lot of people think so as well.

SOOO, shot that guy right in his face or die yourself.

On December 09 2011 10:31 vaderseven wrote:
ok,

sorry was in a game of hon.

I can confirm that anul is telling the turth.

On December 09 2011 10:32 Palmar wrote:


No, that's retarded.

If you were town, you'd have had the balls to call your shot yourself, the best way to prove yourself town is to shoot mafia, they should be glaringly obvious by now. Why didn't you shoot me? I'm your number one scumread am I not?

On December 09 2011 10:53 Radfield wrote:
Annul what action did you use last night?

On December 09 2011 10:56 Radfield wrote:


please explain your reasoning for that.

On December 09 2011 11:45 vaderseven wrote:
Did you catch what I did annul?

On December 09 2011 11:51 vaderseven wrote:
No, read my filter annul. If you cant subtlely prove you caught the problem with what I said then you are a liar.

On December 10 2011 09:37 Mattchew wrote:


so many warnings

On December 10 2011 22:09 Refallen wrote:
Another thing to consider is that considering how hard palmar has been pushing for annul's lynch, palmar being targeted last night makes it more likely that annul is mafia, as if he was town I would think mafia would have left palmar alive for the hope of getting a mis-lynch.

On December 10 2011 23:51 Zephirdd wrote:
(question: does his JOAT role have the ability of self protection?)

On December 11 2011 04:47 vaderseven wrote:
Ugh.

Annul, you are squirming.



Is it day or night.

Super important.

It IS specific.

On December 06 2011 02:49 Drazerk wrote:
Shoot Palmar Lynch V7 Win

On December 06 2011 03:48 Drazerk wrote:
What is wrong with the Palmar / V7 candidates?

On December 06 2011 05:38 Drazerk wrote:
Also I now think V7 is town despite his stupidity

On December 07 2011 17:28 Drazerk wrote:
I protected V7

On December 07 2011 18:13 Drazerk wrote:
Oh yeah.

I changed my mind. I made a mistake yesterday and I am not repeating it.

On December 11 2011 13:57 bumatlarge wrote:
Annul's present play is very transparent. Obviously this lynch is very important, since scum will have na uphill climb if we lynch scum tonight with palmar zeph and toad (three people I'm fairly confident are not scum) still alive. Drazerk lynch or bust is very obvious

On December 11 2011 19:10 bumatlarge wrote:
I think you're too smart to jump on drazerk for being stupid.

I don't think drazerk is red

On December 09 2011 20:09 Palmar wrote:
Annul gave his shot to a townie who had been very, very open about his read on Erandorr as scum. Annul probably counted on Toad being terrible enough to only aim the gun at Errandor, but because prplhz was town too, Annul ran with it.

Does anyone with half a brain actually think that town annul would not pick his target himself? Notice he did not even consider prplhz's alignment. Annul hasn't accused prplhz all game, he was completely fine with killing prplhz at random.

At this point, I asked annul why he didn't just shoot me? After all, he has been pushing for my death since day 1, if we can call his half-assed attempts pushing. He obviously doesn't give a shit who dies as long as it's not him.



And do you know what Annul replies with?



What the fuck?????????

The only way this sentence makes sense is if annul already knows I'll flip town. According to him I must be scum. But how does shooting scum not say anything about him?

In non-crazy-world shooting scum is one of the best ways of clearing your name. In non-crazy-world you don't randomly shoot townies to save your own hide.

On December 12 2011 07:05 Palmar wrote:
Seriously, we are like three of the top town players in this game. Bumatlarge agrees with the case, and he's another great player. Give us the fucking benefit of the doubt and listen.

Secondly, because the argument is inductive (which in this sense implies that the truth of the conclusion cannot be guaranteed by the truth of the premises), it also is fallacious to assert that the conclusion must be true.

On December 12 2011 03:22 annul wrote:
in case my brief explanation was too succinct for you all:

there are four choices: choose shot/pass shot; hit red/hit town

choose shot, hit red: town may still lynch me for what would be, in my mind, a great day 2 bus... something i have done the last like 4 games as red. a palmar/annul bus plan starting day 1 to coalesce day 2 would be something i am sure one of us would consider and probably execute to perfection.

choose shot, hit town: i lose my shot, i die day 2 outright.

pass shot, hit red: i did my job as a day vig in killing a red AND it looks a lot more good for me since any bus chance would have to involve three mafia, so it is much less likely i am pulling that one off

pass shot, hit town: i took the player no one thought was mafia to control my power, where if i were red i would be putting my own teammates in great danger than controlling the shot myself, thus helping to disprove any notions of redness anyway. sucks we hit town but if the MOST THOUGHT TOWNIE in the game was not able to pick correctly, then why is this my fault?

so you may ask "why did i not pick option 1 and just 1 for 1 trade?" that was the rest of my explanation where i said i had more to do for the town in this game. day vig is not my only power, after all. there is still some equity left in my role that i want to extract for +EV. so in my mind the MOST "profitable" line was letting toad pick, since he had just as much chance as i did to pick a red (i had no idea who he was gonna shoot) AND it gave me the greater chance of surviving the lynch. BOTH of the "choose shot" lines ended in either a guaranteed annul lynch or a more-than-likely annul lynch. so i came up with something else.

so do you fault a player for trying to survive? it is against the rules not to do so.

On December 12 2011 08:02 Zephirdd wrote:
I'm still uneasy on lynching him, but not less than I am on lynching annul.

On December 12 2011 08:04 Palmar wrote:
Don't do it.

Kill annul. No other wagon should be going on at the moment, he's two votes away from being killed, don't fucking let him escape again.

Goddamnit Zephirdd.

On December 12 2011 08:08 Palmar wrote:


I don't talk to scum

On December 12 2011 09:41 Lanaia wrote:
I'm not going to switch my vote because I just really don't think redff is scum... :/

On December 12 2011 11:41 Mattchew wrote:
He's literally 70% of the last 2 days of discussion.

On December 12 2011 12:10 sandroba wrote:
Annul go die pls. You are like a highlander in this game wtf.

On December 12 2011 13:21 sandroba wrote:
Dear Annul,
Please shoot me tonight. If you don't I swear I'll invest all my fucking time to fuck up all your team. I don't mind losing as long as I'm dead so I can convince myself it's not my fault.

Cheers!

On December 13 2011 09:32 Jackal58 wrote:
So tell me Nimrod, who's scum?

On December 13 2011 10:36 bumatlarge wrote:
Please vote Annul, or please shoot me.

On December 13 2011 10:49 bumatlarge wrote:


You see it isn't WIFOM, because either option works for me

On December 13 2011 15:07 vaderseven wrote:
Annul did you use an action last night.

On December 14 2011 04:00 vaderseven wrote:
Annul, you are a LIAR.

Option 1 on Refallen?

You choose to be a vet and target someone?

LYNCH.

##vote annul

GOD i hate being played.

On December 14 2011 05:42 vaderseven wrote:
Annul is 100% lieing. Kill him.

On December 14 2011 05:54 Drazerk wrote:


Because they actually understand me. You haven't played with me enough to "get me" so your probably going to think I am scum until like twelve games from now.

On December 14 2011 06:24 Lanaia wrote:
From me, you say? Because I find the likelihood of two town jacks unlikely with what I've seen flip. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that.

On December 10 2011 07:44 Lanaia wrote:
Sometimes, though, like other people have said, they throw in identical or extremely similar roles. In Steamship, my role was very similar to a scum's role. Harry Potter and Voldemort were literally the same role with a different name. That's what I'm kind of basing my change of heart on here.

On December 14 2011 06:38 vaderseven wrote:
Annul, go ahead reveal to the thread all your abilities.

Its just more lies now.

-_-

On December 14 2011 07:12 Lanaia wrote:

Ahahahahaha. Why do you want that?

On December 12 2011 13:09 Mattchew wrote:
I suck at this game.

fuck.

On December 13 2011 14:41 Mattchew wrote:
lol at how bad I am at this game

On December 14 2011 02:48 Mattchew wrote:
I am starting to believe that both Draz and Annul are town.

On December 14 2011 15:27 vaderseven wrote:
No, the only difference is you are the one squirming suddenly upon making a mistake about a claim. Its classic. You are doing it well at least.

You have resorted to an OMGUS as soon as a claim falls apart to a counter claim and that is a very standard mafia tactic. Seeing as I have pretty much destroyed by virtue of calling you out on a lie in your claim

Splitting the hair about your claim of able to go bulletproof vs mine to go vet for a night is misdirecting the conversation away from the fact that I claimed and breadcrumbed my role way in advance and you did a copy cat style play to establish yourself. Don't think that I have forgotten how it was when everyone was putting myself in their 'probably town' lists that you went established your copy cat claim.

Also, your analysis of bulletproof vs vet as 'more town' operates under an assumption that the town has a max of 1 KP per night. That being said, I don't believe you are a jack or any multi ability user. I think you are a mafia single shot day vig. You found a great way to get your shot off without being insta lynched for it and you are riding that all the way to the present moment.

The fact of the matter is, you are not the same role as I. I am a town Jack and you have claimed to be the same thing.

Your abilities do not match mine. You are lieing about the name of your role and the only reason to do so is if you are not town aligned.

On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote:
Abilites:

Vet for one night
Med for one night
Mason for one day/night
day vigi

You made a small slip and said you used your first option on Refallen and then that mistake expanded into admitting to not knowing what the Jack role has as its abilities.

On December 14 2011 06:41 annul wrote:


as you wish

ability 1: bulletproof
ability 2: day vig
ability 3: medic
ability 4: mason

"option 1" obviously refers to me using medic and not mason.

On December 14 2011 11:32 vaderseven wrote:
Abilites:

Vet for one night
Med for one night
Mason for one day/night
day vigi

On December 14 2011 15:48 vaderseven wrote:
It was obv OMGUS lol.

You see that I have found a fault in your claim.

Ok. Thats where it becomes some backpedaling. OPTION 1 among 4 abilities that are supposed to be common between us would be ability 1. You even number them. This clearly makes it obvious what the common understanding of option 1 would be.

On December 14 2011 15:52 vaderseven wrote:
Maybe you ARE a multi ability mafia role and you just assumed your abilities matched mine.

On December 14 2011 15:58 vaderseven wrote:
This is the one thing I think that is true. You are right, you are some other variation of a multi-ability role and you were assuming your abilities matched mine. It is likely that you are a scum variation of my role.

On December 14 2011 16:11 vaderseven wrote:


Now you are correcting your error and doing a subtle attack onto my claim (of first ability), which DID occur first thank you. Your counter claim of bulletproof over vet and the whole bulletproof is more pro town is a result of me claiming vet as an ability. Simple. As. That.

Our next posts. I make it CLEAR as hell that you are lieing based on your claimed ability usage and claimed role.

And from there you put up your list. Your list isn't the magical first list that your big post trys to make it out to be. My list that came 5 hours after yours was a simple information based list to help make it clear what I was calling you out on.

I await your next twisting of my words my worthy foe.

On December 14 2011 16:15 vaderseven wrote:
Oh and



You really had me scratching my head for a second with that 5 hours later you post the 2nd list of Jack abilities.

I had to re-read both of our filters to make sure that I wasn't crazy and that I really had named that Vet was an ability before you named bulletproof.

On December 14 2011 16:25 vaderseven wrote:


Dang you are good at playing scum. That is an awesome buddying up to a large case vs you in an attempt to create a case out of thin air on me. You even couple that with an image of me having no logical place to stand saying that you are lieing.

You said that you used option 1 on Refallen and I said uh option is to become a vet. You then backpedal and quickly go from being pro-me to anti-me.

I finally caught you in a slip up that proved you were not the same role as me. With that you have no choice other than to OMGUS me. You have claimed town jack and so have I. The moment our claims don't match it is 100% the moment that we know each of our alignments, that of opposites. You recognized this and ASAP began to find ways to make a case that your claim is more town than mine. It is the most classic scum OMGUS (not town OMGUS) in that you realized at the same instant as I that your alignment had been revealed to me via your claim vs mine.

On December 14 2011 16:35 vaderseven wrote:


It is everything? The difference or the ordering of the claims? I don't get how thats everything. Vet and Bulletproof are common roles that can be on either side of mafia/town.

OHH I get it. It is everything meaning that it is the crucial thing that forced your hand and, as such, has to be a part of everything you say concerning you vs me from this point on.

I said vet was option 1 and then you said thats wrong and posted your list.

You are counterclaiming bulletproof to my vet and saying that vet is anti-town.

I say that vet is a fine town ability (lol at saying it isn't, nice use of comparison to create an abstract negative view of something that in reality is a positive).

I also say that your counterclaim of bulletproof to my vet is a smoke screen to take attention off the fact that you LIED and said you used option 1 on Refallen. I called you out on that and said option one is a vet and then voted for you.

Funny how that difference is 'everything.' I think the lie that you got caught in is everything.

On December 14 2011 17:00 vaderseven wrote:


Look again bro!









Stop trying to confuse the issue. This is a factual list of the ordering of posts.

On December 14 2011 17:03 vaderseven wrote:
I am making a case on Annul after defending him for the entire game. Not the other way around.

On December 14 2011 17:05 vaderseven wrote:
I have no idea what your role is, I really don't. I flip flop mentally from moment to moment on that. I know that you are not the same role as me though.

You didn't even bother to comment on the time line once I clarified it.

Care to do so?