TL Mafia XLVIII

On December 05 2011 00:21 Radfield wrote:
A zodiac list is a term coined many games ago. It refers to a list of players, typically the stronger vets, who are held to a high standard. I can't remember the specifics of the original plan, but it was a way to organize blue roles like detectives and medics by directing them either into or away from the zodiac list.

Technically I'm misusing the term here. All I am really talking about is a list of players who playstyles I am familiar with, and who I am going to be keeping a close eye on.

On December 05 2011 00:39 Drazerk wrote:


I dislike randomly voting people at the start of day to spark discussion as it just allows the person to do a blind omgus rather than focusing on everyone. Your not going to stick with Prplhz throughout the entire day at any rate and if you do you will just be tunnelling him which has too many drawbacks.

On December 04 2011 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:

Worst possible option imo. a no-lynch would just make mafia get a couple of freekills while we end up being in the same position we had problems with on day1 with less townies left.

On December 05 2011 03:31 Zephirdd wrote:
Because I don't throw votes away without proper thought. I'd rather see what they have for an answer before actually voting on them.

I believe the answer to a question tells me much more than the actual case made over someone.

On December 05 2011 03:49 Zephirdd wrote:


Maybe that's why I don't like doing it, my first game was like that, and I raged at people just voting out of nothing(even if I was scum there).

Meh, the hell with it.
##Vote Corrupt

I just realized his nickname is horrible also lol.

On December 05 2011 04:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
VisceraEyes Scum-List of Correctitude

Palmar - I liked Red's case on Palmar, and his attempt to discredit it by discrediting me is telling. Like, yeah...he thinks I'm bad...but my skill-level has nothing to do with Red's points or Palmar's posts. It's a ridiculous non-defense, and it's scummy as hell. SCUM.

Drazerk - His criticism of Radfield of his RNG vote caught my eye. Like, what's the point there? Does he think he's scum trying to appear to contribute? Does he think he knows how to play better than Rad? We don't know because he doesn't say. It looks to me like he's soft-defending prplhz...especially when he says things like "...you're not going to stick with Prplhz throughout the entire day and if you do you're tunneling him which has drawbacks"....it stinks of pre-knowledge. Not to mention the fact that he's posted several times and hasn't voted OR given his opinions on any players. SCUM.

We still have a lot of lurkers, I'd like to see content from everyone fastly.

On December 05 2011 04:22 Corrupt wrote:

I pictured TruthBringer as one of the good guys, so I'm being suspicious about prplhz.. altho I must admit that what he said about TruthBringer also made sense. It just isn't based on much information and yet he claims it, so that's why it provoked me for being suspicious about him.

On December 05 2011 04:54 Zephirdd wrote:


Context. Simplifying it, redFF convinced me it's not a big deal to throw a vote on someone you find scummy.

And I'm not regretting it at this point...

On December 05 2011 07:13 Lanaia wrote:
I have come to the conclusion I can't read Palmar worth a damn. I really hate it when I feel like that towards a person all the time. So it's probably a good idea to ignore me when it comes to Palmar, at least for now.


However, I am eagerly awaiting his explanation on redff's case being terrible.

On December 05 2011 13:11 Soap wrote:
I don't get day start, no one did nothing and we have nothing to analyze. I'm rnging.

##Vote Drazerk

On December 05 2011 13:41 redFF wrote:
get away with not contributing i guess..but he must know he would be called out.

On December 06 2011 05:32 vaderseven wrote:
Not red but green. Not really surprised (would say the same if he was red) but I am sad.

On December 06 2011 06:12 Corrupt wrote:


Can't find the slightest piece of logic in his last 20 posts.. his "play" seems just unacceptable for me.
It's so confusing as if there's no logic at all... just pure sickness. (or trolling or whatever)
I have no idea what his purpose was with the dayvig thing,
I think it was some sort of a sick coincidence with Vadersevens role.
But again.. really? So sick, could this be planned after all?
Let me know what you think Risen..

On December 06 2011 09:43 redFF wrote:
anyone not on a large wagon is anti town

On December 06 2011 09:46 Drazerk wrote:


That wasn't majority lynch with no lynches

On December 06 2011 09:52 Drazerk wrote:


It's too late in the day for new bandwagon targets. Focus on what we have

On December 06 2011 09:55 Zephirdd wrote:
K, finished compiling the votes. Fun fact, Palmar and Risen have yet to vote on the voting thread(where they actually count).

And incognito decided to update the vote count just after I finished compiling. FML.
+ Show Spoiler [Just so it isnt wasted] +
real vote count

Anyone not voting for Palmar without a true reason to REALLY believe Palmar is town, especially after what he did(instead of defending his ass to the end and hope for the no-lynch, he basically shits on my face and my defense and claims a scumrole), should really consider switching to him to grab that lynch.Yes I am mad He is, indeed, the less likely town on my opinion right now.

On December 06 2011 10:00 Drazerk wrote:


How wasn't that Palmar's fault? He claimed day vigi and put a timer to V7's head. He had no choice but to role claim then later prove his role claim or the entire town would of lynched him ( Myself included )

He is not slowly coming around he is doing his typical defence of shrugging off any attackers and calling everyone bad. This is not pro town this is destroying the atmosphere we had.

Scum are currently directing us towards the no lynch ( Voting for anyone but Palmar ) which is a 100% benefit for them opposed to lynching palmar who is on their team.

On December 06 2011 10:05 redFF wrote:
@ERANDORR YOU POST YOUR FIRST CASE 4 HOURS FROM THE END OF DAY 1

BITCH PLEASE

On December 06 2011 10:08 Drazerk wrote:


His second vote still hasn't appeared.

On December 06 2011 10:12 Drazerk wrote:
The case against lanania is much weaker lol

On December 06 2011 10:14 Radfield wrote:
##Vote: Hier

I think Hier is a better choice than Lanaia right now.

Everyone on Lanaia should swing over and consolodate on Heir.

On December 06 2011 10:21 Palmar wrote:


I'm town, you're terrible at mafia.

By the way, I need to sleep it's 1am at my time.

If I get lynched. Everyone on this wagon should take a good long hard look at their play, because there is a reason all the players who are commonly considered good have stayed the hell away from my lynch. I know my play hasn't been very productive in this game, I wanted to have a laid back/fun game after the massive pain in the ass that was XLVII. I wanted to play casually and troll around a bit, so I was happy when I got town with a fairly non-important role.

That doesn't change the fact that that nothing about my play has been scummy. Anyone saying that is simply incorrect, a fact that will be proven by my lynch. I want that to sink in. If I do get lynched, you guys are taking active stance against some of the best players TL has to offer, and have the audacity to dare think you're right.

You obviously aren't, but feel free to fail before you believe me. There is no excuse for voting me at this time. You will not be able to say "But Palmar was playing badly", because that doesn't make me scum. Bad != scum. And you will not be able to say that we had no better lynch, because a no-lynch is preferable to killing townies.

Remember that, when/if I flip. This may be the most polarizing lynch I've ever seen in mafia, seperating good players from bad players. I am fully aware I made myself a target. Does that make me mafia? Hell no.

There are only two reasons to be on my wagon when I flip.

a) You're incredibly bad
b) You're scum


Good night.

On December 06 2011 10:33 Radfield wrote:


Lynching scummy lurkers is kinda always the back-up plan for Majority day 1 lynches. Hier's case was extremely forced, and he has contributed nothing since then. Ideally he would not be the lynch, but it's an OK lynch nonetheless. It's better than Lanaia at this point, and miles better than Palmar.

On December 06 2011 10:35 Zephirdd wrote:
Didn't we accept that

Lynch Scummy player > Lynch Lurking player > Lynching Active player
?

Somehow Palmar has a chance to flip town. And I don't find it to be actually a low chance, despite my earlier rage.

and I don't like Lanaia's case against her(mostly over the fact that her posts actually fits her town meta).

On December 06 2011 10:38 Radfield wrote:
We need three more votes.

Assuming the votes on Palmar are locked in, we need 3 of the following players to switch to Hier:

Risen
prplhz
Mattchew
Jackal58
hyshes
supersoft

and someone who hasn't voted, not sure who, but I only count 23 votes on the list(24 with anon)

On December 06 2011 10:40 redFF wrote:
i agree that how he is acting right now is similar to how he was acting last game before being lynched but that is almost certainly intention and i treat it as more scummy than anything else.

On December 06 2011 10:53 Lanaia wrote:


It was in my last post, Risen. Palmar was acting like he did last game before he got lynched and that I felt he was town.
Or do you mean why I switched to Hier?
To avoid a Palmar lynch, he was the best target. People were consolidating onto him and from what I've seen in the past, Palmar can be a hell of a lot more helpful than Hier.

On December 06 2011 11:07 redFF wrote:

yeah yeah sure whatever

On December 06 2011 11:29 Soap wrote:
LOL, sucks to be bastard modded out of the game but I do appreciate the irony.

Have a nice game folks.

On December 06 2011 12:37 kingjames01 wrote:
Hier: where are you? Why aren't you defending yourself?

The problem with this lynch vote is that it gave mafia an excuse to cast their vote without having to provide a strong reason.

"I voted to lynch Hier because we 'need to lynch' and he's the only guy that we had a chance to kill" is not a good reason. Now everyone who voted for him can use that. Not to mention that since we have so many votes against HIer, it's possible that not every mafia is included in this bandwagon.

At least consider the following course of action: If you are town, switch your off Hier and vote someone else. If mafia really want to get a free kill, make them commit an extra vote and put themselves at risk.

On December 06 2011 12:51 kingjames01 wrote:


Only if you really believe that Hier is Red and that mafia isn't actually trying to kill him.

Who knows? If two people rescind their votes maybe we'll see you switch yours and decide Hier's fate.

On December 06 2011 13:44 TruthBringer wrote:
I like the case against refallen rather than the case against hier. I can harmlessly switch my vote from Palmar (5) to refallen. If other people are ready to swing to refallen, announce it, so we can coordinate and still make a hanging happen. Even though I would rather hang refallen than hier, I would rather hang Palmar than either, though clearly Palmar won't get hanged. Too many people have already decided against it.

##unvote Palmar
##vote refallen

On December 06 2011 13:48 TruthBringer wrote:
I was not on hier, I was on Palmar. For semantic soundness . . . I like the case against refallen, rather than the non case against hier.

On December 09 2011 11:30 Radfield wrote:



Yes, you need to vote annul. We need two votes, and yours is supremely important.

Annul is a jack, he also has access to a dayvig shot.

With 11 votes and him likely to be lynched, he asked for town consensus on the who the most likely town was(toad). He then passed his dayvig shot to toad and toad killed prplhz.

I hold that annul was trying to wash his hands of any deaths. Any true town player would simply have taken their shot at the player they think most likely scum, not rely on some other players scum reads. Annul has been pushing Palmar as scum for 72 hours and 50 pages. Had he shot him and Palmar flipped red he would be 99% confirmed town. Instead he passed his shot to some other person.

No way annul is town. Please vote annul.

On December 09 2011 11:35 Radfield wrote:


redFF doesn't look great, but I haven't touched his filter since Day 1, so I don't know. Honestly, if annul flips red you don't look so hot either VE.


Apologies for the spam, I meant to consolidate with my previous post.

On December 09 2011 11:39 Radfield wrote:


Why would a town aligned player give away his shot? Why not just shoot your top scum read, the one you have been pushing for days. Unless of course you know that player will flip town.

If annul was scum, could he have done anything better in this situation to clear his name, short of actually shooting a teammate? Put yourself in annuls shoes(as scum), and ask yourself what you would do to get out of the lynch?

On December 09 2011 11:44 Radfield wrote:



So why didn't you shoot him?

I also notice that nowhere in that sequence of events does Palmar play like scum.

On December 09 2011 11:46 Radfield wrote:



The case on annul is pretty solid. I recommend you reread it. I made several additional points when I voted him.

Since voting Palmar(for a terrible reason) midway through Day 1, annul has done virtually nothing. Even today he promised a big fat post but then simply passed over his dayvig shot to a townie. Annul is putting in very little effort, something that is a hallmark of scum.

On December 08 2011 01:05 Palmar wrote:


How about song lyrics and dramatic speeches?

---

Citizens of Liquidia!

Today is a day to remember, because today the true colors of the residents of town will be shown. Who will dare stand up against the Mafia and make the right choice? Remember that we must each reach the conclusion on our own while working against a highly organized team of evildoers.

Remember today, once night falls it is upon each individual in this town to analyze what happened here today, and more than any other day, today is the day where the lines are drawn.

Today you choose a side, today you show yourself as a valuable member of town or worthless scum seeking only to spread distrust while slowly taking our lives, one by one. Every single person will be held accountable to their actions today. Every single person will be remembered for what they did here today, for good or for bad.

Remember today!

On December 09 2011 11:57 Radfield wrote:



Wait hold on. I'm not even sure what you're referring to now. Palmar did not OMGUS annul. Annul had been voting and pushing Palmar for 36 hours before the flip, at which point Palmar accused annul of being scum. An accusation that was at that time based on new information to the thread.

Palmar did NOT force annul out into the open. Palmar built a case and pushed it.
Palmar did NOT force vaderseven into the open. Palmar applied pressure to see if vader actually had notes.

Yes they both resulted in an outted jack, but the motivation from Palmar in both cases was sound.

On December 09 2011 12:14 redFF wrote:

why am i the best choice...

On December 09 2011 12:55 bumatlarge wrote:


From what I can see he's better then redff. That guy has been pushing palmar the entire game? Where is the analysis on redff, or are we just voting blindly as usual?

On December 09 2011 12:59 redFF wrote:

no

On December 11 2011 23:09 Drazerk wrote:
If you think Red is lying he is our next best target, you seem to be ignoring everyone who knows my meta and knows what I am capable of as town in order to try and lynch me. You don't want to lynch a town? Well you seem to be doing what you can in order to do so.

On December 05 2011 02:24 redFF wrote:
posts useless list
the very next thing he says basically calls the list useless

I'm not sure what the point of this question is. Nobody (except maybe scum) knows for sure. It's pointless setup speculation to look like contributing with a hint of rolefishing.

I'm fairly sure this isn't going to happen, dumb idea. Besides we could never trust the person generating the number to not influence it themselves in some way.

On December 05 2011 02:57 redFF wrote:

hey at least its a case instead of pointless setup discussion and posts saying obvious things like


this

On December 05 2011 21:23 redFF wrote:
##Unvote
meh palmar you're ok for now

can't get over corrupt saying "so many suspicious people" and then only being able to list 1 and then ignoring my pushing of the issue.

##Vote Corrupt

On December 06 2011 00:54 redFF wrote:
i have 3k posts

On December 06 2011 01:54 redFF wrote:
that was fucking stupid.

On December 06 2011 02:03 redFF wrote:

:derp:

On December 06 2011 09:43 redFF wrote:
anyone not on a large wagon is anti town

On December 06 2011 10:13 redFF wrote:

NOPE

On December 11 2011 03:26 redFF wrote:
my play is so different from my scum play it's unreal. I'm gonna pull a palmar and say the good players know im town.

also if nobody claims a second roleblock then either eran was lying or rad was rb'd or we have a town rb.

On December 12 2011 06:56 redFF wrote:

THIS POST

AND IM SCUMMY?

On December 12 2011 08:28 Palmar wrote:
The only good thing that can possibly come out of this is that there is a chance redFF is scum too. But I was leaning towards his reasons for not supporting my case last night being just bad.

I mean, the guy has only voted townies so far (me, prplhz, hier).

But I think redFF could be scum, I know annul is scum.

On December 12 2011 08:56 Jackal58 wrote:
You missed redFF's day 3 roleblock claim

On December 12 2011 10:59 Mattchew wrote:
whats the counts at?

On December 14 2011 04:00 vaderseven wrote:
Annul, you are a LIAR.

Option 1 on Refallen?

You choose to be a vet and target someone?

LYNCH.

##vote annul

GOD i hate being played.

On December 14 2011 16:27 vaderseven wrote:
And it IS omgus before you say it isn't.

Imagine a 3 player game. 1 mafia, 1 cop, 1 VT.

The cop and the mafia both say I AM THE COP. They then both vote each other.

They are both OMGUSing each other.

On December 14 2011 16:35 vaderseven wrote:


It is everything? The difference or the ordering of the claims? I don't get how thats everything. Vet and Bulletproof are common roles that can be on either side of mafia/town.

OHH I get it. It is everything meaning that it is the crucial thing that forced your hand and, as such, has to be a part of everything you say concerning you vs me from this point on.

I said vet was option 1 and then you said thats wrong and posted your list.

You are counterclaiming bulletproof to my vet and saying that vet is anti-town.

I say that vet is a fine town ability (lol at saying it isn't, nice use of comparison to create an abstract negative view of something that in reality is a positive).

I also say that your counterclaim of bulletproof to my vet is a smoke screen to take attention off the fact that you LIED and said you used option 1 on Refallen. I called you out on that and said option one is a vet and then voted for you.

Funny how that difference is 'everything.' I think the lie that you got caught in is everything.

On December 06 2011 14:45 Hier wrote:
It seems I have underestimated the amount of terrible town players in this game.

I don't lurk, ever. Nor do I plan to. Not as town, not as scum. If I don't post, it's because I can't.

Also, what kind of a pathetic death was that? I'll remember that, WBG.

gg

On December 14 2011 16:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, I'm good with this.

##Unvote: Drazerk
##Vote: vaderseven

You're right. I haven't voted annul yet. And I'm still not.

I've had a town read on annul all fucking game, and after this revelation, I'm fucking glad. I went back and looked over v7's posts. He's been very VERY careful indeed about going with the flow of town. He's been down with every 'town-decided' lynch that's gone down.

Annul's right, the BP vs Vet thing is huge. It's what's going to land us our first scum lynch today. Scum wouldn't need the extra protection the BP part role provides, so it only makes sense that scum would get Vet instead of BP.

vaderseven is flailing scum guys. His reaction to annul's pressure has me completely convinced.

On December 15 2011 12:18 Refallen wrote:
Oh god no... link?

On December 15 2011 12:43 vaderseven wrote:
So we ahve 10 on him and 6 on annul?

There is 6 mafia left right now, assuming a worst case and there is 6 voting for San right now that last minute change AND annul is actually town (which a red flip on San would most certainly support), they could bring that to 6 on San and 12 on annul.

##unvote Annul
##vote sandroba

That brings us to 11 on San and 5 on annul, worst case vote changing can bring that to 7 on San and 11 on Annul.

What is the needed for a lynch?

On December 15 2011 12:59 annul wrote:
here we go

On December 15 2011 13:29 Refallen wrote:
So it was just town sucking then? =(

On December 15 2011 13:38 Mattchew wrote:
or does town still have roles taht are not refallen?

On December 15 2011 13:49 kingjames01 wrote:
Do you know what I am?

On December 15 2011 14:30 Toadesstern wrote:
btw I still think this shit is imbalanced
We got 4 mislynched in a row, we even got townies dayvigging each other, we even got mafias protecting each other day1 from town dayvigs. And STILL it's close as it can get.

On December 15 2011 14:33 sandroba wrote:
LOL toad it's not imba, 6 mafia in 25 players already favors scum. We did some pretty risky shit and apparently it hasn't worked out, pretty fair if we lose this =P

On December 16 2011 02:21 Drazerk wrote:
So why did scum push me so much?

On December 16 2011 02:22 Toadesstern wrote:
btw that was the chance we were talking about

you needed 2 succesfull saves + 1 right RB at the same time so it was
(2/10)*(2/9)*(1/5) = 4 / 450 chance to win.
well actually it's more like (2/10)*(2/9)*(1/3) because you guys already knew that you don't have to RB me or annul but yeah, still only a 4/270 chance

On December 19 2011 03:20 Jackal58 wrote:

I did nothing wrong. Hyshes has 3 votes on him. He's lynched. Game over. I am Floridian.

On December 19 2011 07:36 Jackal58 wrote:
A bit of advice for the hosts. If you are running a game that has had the time constraints removed from it don't post the day post seconds after mafia sends in their night actions. When Incog did that I knew that town had no night actions remaining.
All I had to do was hope for a vote on somebody that wasn't me at that point. It wasn't really fair to town. You should have waited an hour or two before posting. At least call for night actions. You outed town.

On December 19 2011 10:39 Jackal58 wrote:

Dude. VE wanted to bus Sandro from day 1. Even if it meant outing himself all he wanted was to kill Sandro. I think every post Risen made was "sorry guys I've been out vote random townie" He was dead as soon as he voted for Sandro. Toad had wanted to post I AM SCUM at the beginning of all of his posts for 2 days. Annul was raging about balance. Sandroba was awol for the entire game and bussing Annul the entire time. I suggested the scum slip and they all loved it. It fucking worked. Don't tell me how stupid it was. You weren't privy to the most dysfunctional scum team ever. I deferred to Annul on kills and role blocks but most of the time I was in the IRQ telling every body to stop being stupid. To stop trying to be a hero. To forget about a perfect game. The move was fucking brilliant. It was the only time in the entire game all the cowboys were on the same page.

On December 19 2011 10:59 wherebugsgo wrote:


I am understanding what you're saying. You're just wrong.

Annul and Risen voting at 7 and 8 was a mistake. VE unvoting was a mistake.

You want a split vote to barely reach majority so that one unvote will force a no-lynch. In that case, Risen should've just afked and annul could've thrown his vote on anyone he wanted. You and VE could blast Toad/annul for unvoting.

That's, at most, a 3 player sacrifice. Not 5.

On January 01 2012 17:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
what happened to the community it was awesome when i first started playing tbh its why i dont care about mafia at all anymore