EPTNOTHING he has done today is pro town.
Take any of his posts and you will find either abstract game theory filler, defense, RNG based pushes, trolling, or lieing.
THIS ISN'T PRO TOWN PLAY SUPERSOFT. THIS IS PLAY THAT DOES HELP THE SCUM.
get it?
TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 41
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
NOTHING he has done today is pro town. Take any of his posts and you will find either abstract game theory filler, defense, RNG based pushes, trolling, or lieing. THIS ISN'T PRO TOWN PLAY SUPERSOFT. THIS IS PLAY THAT DOES HELP THE SCUM. get it? | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:10 vaderseven wrote: Honestly, that doesn't say anything that defends his scummy actions. You are basiclly saying that Palmar only does town actions. He didn't play that way today regaurdless of everything else so why should we apply meta like that at this time. I didn't say he only does town actions. I said he is smart enough to not do something as ridiculous as what he did today if he was scum. I do not agree that he was pro-town with what he did; However that wasn't pro-scum at all despite the free kill. It would be ridiculous for a scum to go for a 1-1 trade this early on the game, and Palmar knows that, and so should you. (I also feel this situation looks horribly similar to XLVII with BC tunneling Palmar for lynching a green day 1) | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
This is why I dont like to post my notes palmar. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:12 supersoft wrote: And concerning the Palmarcase: It is based on stupid assumptions like LAL. I never agreed with this shit! If you're town, you have to lie sometimes to get some additional information! It's a risk you sometimes have to take. So far Palmar is the ONLY one here that tried to force anything. Accusing him for that is just stupid. There are different, better indicators, that tell us if someone is scum or not. Right now, I see errandorr being useless and lazy. I know he is playing a lot Dota2 atm and I think he doesnt read the thread very well. I think his illness may be a lie. V7 is still sticking to Palmar with questionable reasoning and he also posted scumnotes here. This isn't a simple LaL it's the manner in which he did it. He pressured Vader into producing data he couldn't and then threatening to kill him leaving him with role claiming or crawling into a ball and go die. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:15 vaderseven wrote: Tell me what scum hunting palmar has done and then compare that to the amount of lies AND trolling AND random votes he has done. NOTHING he has done today is pro town. Take any of his posts and you will find either abstract game theory filler, defense, RNG based pushes, trolling, or lieing. THIS ISN'T PRO TOWN PLAY SUPERSOFT. THIS IS PLAY THAT DOES HELP THE SCUM. get it? okay, let it go. I already told you to calm down. If you keep raging, things won't get better. Your stressed out behaviour could also be explained with red alignment. Now back to Lanaia: On December 06 2011 05:05 Lanaia wrote: Jesus, what did I miss last night... This is essentially stream-of-consciousness here as I read the thread. I'm pretty sure I agree with sandroba on both counts here, but moreso on vaderseven. He has been giving me scumvibes this game. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU SHOOT d1. Seriously, wtf are people even doing in this game. Palmar's being weird. I'm going to echo supersoft here. I disagree. You shouldn't've shot anyone. I don't think you're scum anymore, but I think you made a terrible decision. However, what I really don't like is how Palmar seems to have known your role before you claimed. Right now, I'm going to ##vote: Palmar because I have no idea what the fuck he thinks he's doing and that feels fairly scummy to me and he seems to have known vader's role and I also don't think Drazerk is scum so I don't understand why Palmar thinks RNG is the best idea for votes. Hell, I could randomly vote on my own accord and CLAIM that it's RNG. I'm sorry, but I won't be back until after the lynch because of school (I think. Oh wait, deadline is 8pm PST? I'll be here a couple hours before then, most likely, given nothing happens on the highway). if she's a real girl, thats not a scumtell. Sorry folks. Girls contradict themselves all the time. even so i am going to read her filter of her last scumgame... I'd like to have a little bit more than just Radfields verdict. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:18 vaderseven wrote: Zeph, you are saying then taht Palmar is too smart to do anything scummy as scum but he will do scummy stuff as town? I'm saying that he isn't retarded enough to do that without good intentions for himself and his team; and for scum that would have NOT been a good move, and scum as a team would NOT approve that, unless they are retarded. [theorycraft] When playing as town, you usually don't have to think a lot to post. When playing as scum, you have extra information that subconsciously will influence your posts, and you have to be careful with the way you post or go apeshit to a completely retarded side(ex. Serejai on XLVII, Coagulation on SSL); you can't afford to look scum when trying to push for a townie lynch, especially NOT a day1 townie lynch. Palmar is, or should be, experienced enough to realize that. On December 06 2011 08:21 Drazerk wrote: ok without discussing the notes or meta. Explain how palmar is innocent. This is the thing, I can't do that. He didn't do things to warrant his innocence. And THAT is what makes me feel that he is innocent. Does that make any sense for you? It's probably my brain going hard WIFOM, but as I said, a scum wouldn't afford to be that scummy day 1. I stand where I am, and I believe Palmar is town. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:23 supersoft wrote: if she's a real girl, thats not a scumtell. Sorry folks. Girls contradict themselves all the time. even so i am going to read her filter of her last scumgame... I'd like to have a little bit more than just Radfields verdict. On December 06 2011 07:17 vaderseven wrote: I like the case on Lanaia ALOT. It really does fit especially with her posting style last game. The asap posting about things when called out is pretty dang fishy to me too. I am down with either a Palmar or Lanaia lynch at this point. ##unvote I read her and posted an agreement with Radfield fyi. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:27 flamewheel wrote: why u so many page Rolling dice and shooting guns. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:23 vaderseven wrote: Super ur case on me and defense of palmar reminds me of BC defending Zeks and making a case on palmar last game. You can't compare yourself with Palmar. If you're town you better calm down now. I want to read a sterling discussion and not this shit. Seriously. Do you think you will convince anyone with that behaviour? Please. Sum up your thoughts in a post and try your best. Right now, the prevailing opinion among the experienced players says that Palmar is innocent. You shouldn't question that without good arguments. Everyone has read this thread and your little convo where you panicked and shot the first guy that came to your mind without any discussion. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22634 Posts
I have an extra vote, (the role name is floridian) that means the anonymous vote that will show up on the voting chart is mine. I don't see any reason as for why I should not claim this role, as an anonymous vote will probably confuse people more than it helps to keep it concealed. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
My thoughts. Palmer has acted scummy in multiple ways (Lies, Trolling, Randon Votes instead of Scum Hunting, and only posts in a srs way when defending himself). More info here - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212¤tpage=39#776 Your entire post boils down to a, "u bad bro." I don't think it is decided if Palmar is innocent or a good lynch. The votes will decide that. Rash behavior would include posting big pictures of dice to RNG vote people when there is ~12 hours left in the day. Rash behavior would include fake claiming. Everything Palmer has done today has been unhelpful yet he is posting alot. The best defense that people are posting is that he isn't dumb enough to act like that as scum. I ask who thinks it is smart to act like that as town? Just because a move is a dangerous move as scum doesn't make it pro-town. Each action needs to be looked at and understood on its own. RNG instead of scumhunting. I call that scummy. Fake Claim instead of a pressure vote (especially given the timing of people starting to question my vote on corrupt because I had been out of the thread asleep for awhile; he did this as a small wagon was starting on me). I call that scummy. Trolling after events happen and adding nothing productive until he defends himself. I call that scummy. Consider if I had posted the notes he wanted me to post when he asked. I said I don't want to post the notes they are not helpful. He then lies and tries to force the notes out of me. Had he gotten me to post those he could have been like ya I did to get him to post look at me Im really good at this, oh and his notes are just a giant list lynch this guy. I see this as a minor day 1 gambit that I did not play the part he imagined I would play. He was trying to setup a decent case that already had some people voting on in a way that would be seen as a 'cool move' even if it didn't work. I see no town motivation to lie about a claim in order to get someone to post something that they say isn't helpful in the first place. Its just an over allocation of risk for too little gain. I think he wanted to use my notes to build a case on me based on the fact that I myself said the notes are not helpful. | ||
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Refallen
452 Posts
My initial thoughts: Palmar: wtf was that? There can be no rational that was optimal play, to lie blatantly and act like an idiot to try to get a tell on one person, and in the process destroying the whole town atmosphere. (Also you should've probably made it much clearer that you were fake-claiming). Fancy-play syndrome much? Vader: I don't see why you would shoot soap, seeing as how you admitted that soap's play was very much like how he played town last game. With that being said at this juncture I don't think either Palmar or vader are scum, they were at worst being retarded. I highly doubt that Palmar would, as scum, set this whole fake-claim thing up and not back off once v7 claimed dayvig since v7's target was most likely Palmar. I just don't see why he as scum would do it, since I assume he's a really good scum player who has no reason to draw attention to himself like this so early in the game, and would rather try to choose a less-obvious way to take control of town discussions. As for v7 I can't see him as scum either, though I think it was retarded he immediately cc-ed dayvig without just waiting for people to defend himself from Palmar's retardedness. I'm assuming mafia can talk at day among themselves too right? Think if he was scum his buddies would probably tell him that claiming dayvig against palmar's claim is stupid. Lastly, I think there are better people to lynch, for example, Hier, for reasons aforementioned above | ||
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