EPT##Vote: Palmar
TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 3
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote: Palmar | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
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On December 07 2011 18:12 Palmar wrote: Are you trying to exploit the fact that you generally tunnel me as town to hide something? You're not even trying to look genuine, or at least give anything a second thought. Do you believe annul's claim of being shot? Do you agree with me that it's very likely syllogism shot him? Do you agree that it's very unlikely a medic would choose annul as his target? Explain the bolded. I've been genuinely suspicious of you all game. I'm not trying to hide anything - it's some kind of massive coincidence that you just happen to look town in games I'm not playing and suddenly turn into Trolly McFuckstick every time I'm in a game with you...either that or you do the shit on purpose. But judging from your play this game, if you're town I'll eat my own shit. I'm not sure what I think of Annul's claim. Right now I can't be bothered because YOU are going to hang today. Call it my mission. Syllo was at least mildly suspicious of Annul, and I wouldn't be surprised if syllo shot Annul. But no, I don't think it's "very unlikely" a medic would protect annul...in fact, if I were a medic, annul would be on my tertiary protect list by virtue of being active and scumhunting, yet NOT known for strong results. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:39 Palmar wrote: You see, every experienced player stayed the hell away from my wagon because it's pretty obvious I was goofing around early day one. Yet you tunneled in on me very, very early in the game, never giving it as much as a second thought. I am looking forward to you eating your own shit though, although I think it's quite vulgar, please don't take any pictures. Yes, I troll you. I dislike your style of scumhunting because you always look at what happens, instead of thinking about what it means. For example, syllogism who is arguably the best town player on TL, correctly deduced that while I was being dumb and useless, there was nothing in it that made me mafia. Sure, it made me useless, but useless doesn't mean mafia. You on the other hand automatically assume that since I am unhelpful, I must be mafia, which is faulty logic, and probably the reason you have such a hard time hunting scum. And that's why I troll you, and why I'm sometimes a dick to you. This is written in case you happen to be town, in hopes you actually give your stance a second thought, because you're not helping at the moment. I cannot possibly deduce your alignment, because I think you're smart enough to know that tunneling me basically frees you from further scrutiny if you are scum, because your terrible meta assumes you tunnel me, no matter of my alignment. In addition, re-read the last paragraph in your post. Notice how you're completely disregarding a very important part of the game because you're so tunneled in on me. Of the four big names this game (rad, sand, me, syllo) Syllogism looked by far the most pro-town. I was trolling, sandroba was lurking and radfield was being not so useful. Why on earth would any medic who's not already affiliated with annul, pick annul over syllogism as n1 target? Syllo probably dies more often than Radfield and I on night 1. Goofing around you say? I call it being an arrogant prick and destroying the atmosphere of town. Potayto Potahto. The vets stayed away, not because they thought you were goofing-off, but because they've seen strong play from you and wanted to give you a chance. I am unwilling to let you go that long because I have first-hand knowledge of how experienced you are at getting people to do what you want...and I saw scum in you from the very beginning. Useless does mean mafia, what the fuck are you smoking? What kind of scum-team goes around being useful to town? A pretty fucking pointless scum-team, that's what kind. Scum try and blend in. Scum give the appearance of being useful (pointless setup speculation) while simultaneously sabotaging town's scumhunting efforts (suggesting no-lynch right out of the gates). Oh is that why? And here I thought it was just to discredit my points against you so you don't have to actually respond to any of them. Silly me. But I have to disagree with you here - I think I'm being very helpful. I think you wriggled away yesterday by the graces of the vets protecting you. And I think today they're going to see you for what you are. I'm not concerned about 'scrutiny' because I have nothing to hide. I freely admit that I'm tunneling you, but based on the points I've raised, I feel I'm absolutely justified. Obviously you disagree, either because you're town and I'm wrong or because your scum and you want to win. My money is on the latter. I'm probably not alone at this point. First of all, I hardly call you a "big name" in this game. I recognize you, sure, and you're active enough that most everyone probably does. But let's be realistic here: your play has been very very bad this game. Bad on a level the likes of me can only imagine to dream of. Why would a medic pick annul over syllo? Hmmm...because annul's name starts with 'a'? Because they RNG'd between a list they've made and annul's number came up? Not everyone plays like you Palmar, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but it's true. People play this game differently than you do. There's not always ONE RIGHT CHOICE for their action, and you're assuming that there is. Well, get over yourself. You perceive yourself as some kind of paragon of logic, but you're not bro. Maybe once you realize that, you'll stop being such an unholy bastard to me in EVERY game we're in together. Or maybe I'll just keep tunneling you when I suspect you're not on my team. *shrug* Time will tell. In conclusion, I really would rather you address the points I've made against you instead of explain why you feel compelled to be a fucking asshole to me every game. I get it. You don't like the way I play. Fucking deal with it. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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##Unvote: Palmar Based solely on Rad's wish for a Palmar lynch to go away. I still feel the case on him is good, and that people are ignoring parts of my case based solely on the fact that I'm not considering anyone else right now. But I'm willing to let this ride ANOTHER day. I've been going over a few people and will post thoughts when I get some time alone with the thread. This is bullshit, I don't mind saying. Palmar is fucking scum. But he's not the only scum. I will say however that because I've got a scum-read on Palmar, I will NOT be supporting an annul lynch today. Period. I'll even fight that shit, because it's scum-driven. I'm not sure of my read on Annul, but I'm bloody POSITIVE of my read on Palmar. If I don't get my lynch, Palmar damned sure isn't getting his. Again, I'll post my thoughts on other candidates a little later. I have some reading to do. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 08 2011 09:34 vaderseven wrote: VEyes, dont unvote him if you think he is scum. We gotta break that pattern now. I hope you're referring to the 'town' pattern and not my pattern...I think you'll find this is my first unvote of the game. I don't like it any more than you do, but if you want to help town, find his partners. He's active enough and controversial enough that there's probably enough associative shit in here to find at least one or two of them already. I'm looking elsewhere, so you can be tasked with this. Look through his interactions and find his partners v7. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 05 2011 08:50 Erandorr wrote: Okay I just got home and I have a question for you, Rad. What are your thoughts at this point? Is there anyone that is standing out to you? Erandorr, rather than contributing any thoughts/reads of his own, felt the need to ask Rad for his thoughts/reads. On December 05 2011 09:35 Erandorr wrote: Okay Radfield, this is starting to give me a bad feeling. I first noticed it when you stated that you feel like a good town atmosphere includes no arguments. You are doing a great job involving a lot of people in the conversation, but it is really, really easy to look town when there is actually not that much to comment on and scum are in no way forced to reveal information. What we have right now is a very peaceful town, but not one that is looking like it is gaining a lot of information anytime soon and you are doing very little to change that. Would you mind sharing your thoughts now, so they can be discussed and we get a better sense of your alignment at the same time? Erandorr, rather than contributing any thoughts/reads of his own, lightly casts suspicion on Radfield for not contributing any thoughts/reads. Not so much calling him scum, but "this is starting to give me a bad feeling" indicates that he's certainly headed down that road. On December 05 2011 10:30 Erandorr wrote: I made that first post because I noticed that, while you were engaging people in the game, you didn't really give us anything yourself. The fact that I still have not got anything out of you after an exchange of 3-4 posts sort of justifies that , don't you think? Why don't you want to share thoughts on alignment if you have noticed something? Get everybody to comment on it, see how the players react, or in other words, create some content yourself instead of complaining that no one else is doing anything. I wouldn't call the way you play ant-town, but its actually not helping that much either. And since you are on of the very good players in this game , I feel like we can hold you to a certain standart, as you pointed out correctly. Erandorr, rather than contribute any thoughts/reads of his own, defends his first couple of posts by attesting that his contribution WAS asking Rad for his contribution. Before I continue, I'm going to give the definition of contribution as I understand it to mean in the game of Mafia, and how it applies to Rad's posting style versus Eran's posting. Contribution is airing information into the thread that will not only further your reads on others, but also to allow others to further their reads on you. As members of town, we don't KNOW the alignments of anyone else, but we also understand that others don't have any reason to trust us. Now, as for how this applies to the Radfield/Erandorr back and forth. Radfield up to this point has been asking people for their reads, Erandorr is right about that. But Radfield was asking specific people about their reads of specific others, indicating that he's trying to get as much information as possible into the thread for analysis. Conversely, Erandorr has been asking specifically for Rad's reads in general, repeatedly. All this serves to do is to make Radfield seem suspicious (this is giving me a bad feeling) for wanting to get as much information as possible before making alignment-based judgements, and it prevents Erandorr from actually contributing anything of substance himself. Moving on. On December 05 2011 12:55 Erandorr wrote: That is a terrible reason to suspect Radfield. To Radfield : The reason I asked you specificly is because I noticed it and it had not been mentioned before. That in itself was my contribution at that point. That I have to comment on other players as well is a given, but that does not make my questions any less valid. I didn't only ask you, I wrote something about you specificly because that question solidified my concern, which is that you are actually more contributing than guiding, which can be a very subtle way of playing scum. I agree with that statement in general, but I am quite confused by the reason you are giving. If people look suspicious, that usually means they did something wrong/anti-town/opposed to their usual behaviot etc. That should be discussed and we can see a lot by the reactions every player has to the discussion. If mafia actually did just discuss one player then we as a good town should notice that, and through that already gain a ton of information. You make it sound like Scum can just roll in and dominate discussion. The issue I have with this post is the fact that he's criticizing Radfield for doing something he himself is doing (not contributing his reads) which is a terrible reason to suspect Radfield (because he himself is doing it, and if he's town that would render it a null-tell), yet criticizes Lanaia for suspecting Radfield for a terrible reason (apparently RNG voting for prplhz). On December 06 2011 04:45 Erandorr wrote: I am very ill, probably will write one big post but nothing more today. Promises content. On December 06 2011 07:46 Erandorr wrote: Can we just lynch Radfield? Fails to deliver. Yet here it is, a full 40 pages into the game, we get our first glimpse into Erandorr's reads. He wants to lynch Radfield. After being prodded about the 'big post' he was supposed to be writing, he concedes that he'll write it. I'm not going to post it here (as he said, it's a big motherfucker), but it boils down to 'Radfield doesn't provide actionable content, therefor Radfield must be scum' He also tries to paint the fact that he doesn't want to out his alignment-related reads scummy, but by putting words (because it's anti-town) into Rad's mouth. On December 06 2011 09:51 Erandorr wrote: Thought about other players coming soon (tm) On December 06 2011 09:54 Erandorr wrote: Yeah I know. I am looking at the candidates right now. On December 06 2011 10:01 Erandorr wrote: can you read that big wall i wrote and tell me if I am insane or actually making sense? On December 06 2011 10:07 Erandorr wrote: Yeah that was smart. Still read it tho and tell me what you think about it for the next day. On December 06 2011 10:08 Erandorr wrote: its about timing. like this no one will really consider it for today because there is just not enough time. I promised a big post though so I gotta deliver ^.^ On December 06 2011 10:18 Erandorr wrote: Yeah, Heir is fine with me, Palmar isn't ##Vote: Heir (Baaah) There's a theme in the quotes I just posted. See if you can guess what it is. I'll tell you what I think it is in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + There is a distinct lack of content in them. I've read enough. ##Vote: Erandorr | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote: bumatlarge Also, HI BUM! | ||
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On December 09 2011 07:45 Mattchew wrote: I hate to say this. I was wrong. Erandorr (now Buma) was never scum. Poor analysis was made based on a poor sampling play and with him being replaced this just reads more and more town. I disagree. Erandorr was playing the game just fine. He was calling for a lynch of a Vet d1, okay? He built a monster case on Radfield d1. He didn't provide ANY content though. If he were unable to post, yeah, sure, okay...not enough information, poor sampling of posts, yadda yadda...but he was playing, man! I have no doubt that he was playing sick, but that does NOT make him town, I'm sorry. It just doesn't. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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On December 09 2011 08:59 Lanaia wrote: Okay, I'm back until 6pm PST (approx). Right now, I feel guilted into unvoting Eran. I'm wondering if I should because a replacement was made and I don't like voting replacements right away. Ethically, is it bad for me to keep my vote where it is? I don't want to vote annul because I think he's town and I don't think I want to vote Palmar. Can you pass me some of that waffle-sauce? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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