EPTTL Mafia XLVIII - Page 2
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
This is horseshit, if I die overnight, take a deep dark look at Palmar. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 06 2011 18:39 Palmar wrote: No mafia with half a brain is going to kill you VE. You can't see it, but I'm rolling my eyes at you bro. Just take my word for it. I'm willing to admit your posting has taken a more townie turn, but the circumstances around the Heir lynch don't look good for you in my opinion. I'm working on a case, so feel free to do a couple of situps in preparation for the hearty guffaw you're sure to enjoy at my expense. When day breaks (if we both still live), I'm comin for you. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Literally all I've seen from Palmar is defending himself. I'm building a case, but don't dismiss what I'm saying just because I'm being consistent. I admit my tunnel of him yesterday was bad, but I'm as aware of his ability as anyone else is and to be honest, I understand what people have been saying about keeping him alive to prove himself. But all I see is him attempting to justify his retarded lie (assuming it's a lie) yesterday and taken with his general trolling behavior yesterday I'm fully of the opinion that he's scum. We'll see what happens between now and then. As far as opinions on others, I'll have to get back with you, as most of my attention has been on Palmar. I've noticed a few strange things in relation to Palmar about some people that I intend to explore once I get my Palmar flip. Here's a snapshot though. Radfield has done a fine job of keeping d1 relatively focused. It's only when he wasn't in direct contact with the thread that Palmar was able to destroy what he'd accomplished. I've got a strong town read on Radfield. redFF has been weird too. D1 started out strong, then degraded into capslock abuse and one-liners, the pit he remains in now. I'm wondering if it has to do with the way suspicions were rolling at the time - confidence levels and whatnot. Wishywashy on Palmar bad. Scum read on redFF I'm a little suspicious of Sandroba's defense of Palmar yesterday, primarily because he commented on the fact that no one was defending him - in the same post he was defending him. He was one of those of the opinion that Palmar should be 'kept alive to prove himself', but that's certainly not a scum-tell of any kind. His case on Lanaia was...not. I'm leaning scum on Sandroba. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I saw your points, and I saw Rad's response to them. While I agree that "Yeah those points are fair" isn't the most TOWNIE defense, it doesn't change that he's been actively dragging information out of people and garnering responses...which IS townie, and I can't see scum being so adamant about focusing town. You commented on the atmosphere this game in the very post you addressed me. Are you telling me that you don't feel like Rad is at least partially responsible? Do you see a scum motivation for his endeavors? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Posting in-thread isn't a tool that you can use. Posting in thread is THE tool that you ALWAYS use. The more a person says, the more they're likely to slip up if they're scum. And the more you talk to the rest of town, the better feel you get for who you can trust. Posting in this thread IS THE GAME in a non-PM game, unless you're scum I guess. Less discussion = less information gained by all parties. While it's true that you're preventing scum from getting any information, you're preventing other townies from getting it too...and they're the ones that matter. Scum already has the information. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
The fact of the matter is that information is the only advantage Mafia have over town. Squelching town is beneficial to Mafia, 100% of the time because it's securing their one advantage. If you disagree with that, you're delusional. If, like v7, you want Mafia to RETAIN their informational advantage, by all means...say nothing until daybreak. If you want to win, like me, then you'd better get in here and prove it. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. prplhz, I'd like to turn your question around on you. What do YOU think of my suspicions of red and Sandroba? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
v7, what is the basis of your suspicion of Palmar? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:24 redFF wrote: voting hier, although the case against him is weird. someone compared hiers case against syllo this game to his case against palmar last game. The problem is that the palmar case was on day 2, so of course it would have a lot more content then the early day 1 syllo case. w/e its better than nolynch and i guess he could be scum. Oh nevermind, found it. I guess you're counting this as 'letting town know your intentions' and do NOT think it's a ninja-vote. I bolded it because I missed it and I wanted to make sure town didn't...but the post as I found it, those two words were NOT bold and were basically hidden among the shenannies of yesterday. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 08:39 vaderseven wrote: Pretty much what I have said over and over throughout the day yesterday. His play was based on RNG, Lieing, and trolling and none of those things are good for the town. They create situations that are good for the scum. I just wanted you to say it again. So how has his play appeared SINCE his trolling phase (which is very clearly over, made evident by his posting)? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:39 redFF wrote: GODDAMN THIS PALMAR WAGON IS BAD Look at it! Man, that's emphatic. Note the use of all-caps and lack of punctuation. What changed between this post and now? Has he looked more scummy to you? If so, how? If not, then why would you have 'preferred' a Palmar lynch to a Hier lynch? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 09:14 redFF wrote: i dunno i guess my reads changed *snapsnapsnap* Deep bro. Deep. I can absolutely see why Palmar included you on his "list of important townies to listen to because they're experienced enough not to lynch me for scummy behavior." ... ... ... Or, you could answer my question. WHY did your reads change red? WHAT did Palmar do that made him scummy enough to be the lynch of the day, when before he was so emphatically NOT scummy enough to be the lynch of the day? WHEN did your read on Palmar change? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 09:25 Refallen wrote: And VE weren't you the one who was adamant about getting on a Palmar wagon? Why the sudden attack on redFF for doing the same? He didn't do the same. I followed HIM onto the Palmar wagon. The circumstances surrounding what wagon he DID end up on are what I'm attacking here. He ended up on Hier yesterday Refallen, did YOU know that? Like, without looking at the Vote-count thread, would YOU have remembered that Red was on the Hier wagon? I didn't, I had to go look to SEE what wagon he was on. That's what I'm attacking here, not his 'preference to lynch Palmar'. He didn't want to lynch Palmar that's what I'm getting at here. He says he did, but I suspect that he didn't. Because they're buddies. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 10:38 redFF wrote: i dunno why i thought it was bad at that point, probably because of all the random people putting their votes on him with shitty/no reasoning. I was more commenting on how bad the wagon was than whether palmar was town or not. All right! Jeez, if I'm gonna have to drag every little thing out of you, just let me know.  So is it fair to assume that at the time, your suspicion of Palmar was still 'there'..as in, you were still AS suspicious of him as you were when you placed your vote on him? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 12:00 TruthBringer wrote: Toades you really shouldn't force draz's hand. If mafia knows he is protecting v7, then they won't target v7. Let's keep some ambiguity about it. If we tell draz we'll kill him unless he protects v7, he doesn't have the ability to actually heal someone else, while the mafia think he's healing v7. THANK you! A little WIFOM goes a long way, but literally demanding protection for someone? This goes for you too Rad. If Draz' claim can be believed, I agree that v7 is a good target, but I think any of the others you named would be good targets too. Just sayin. A stopped kill is a stopped kill. PRs are helpful, but warm bodies will help us win the game in the end FAR more than 1 PR ever could. My two cents. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Palmar List reveals what most of the vets are probably thinking but not posting…that due to balance, at least 2 of the mafias are going to be experienced players. What I dislike about this list the most is that in spite of posting such a list, he claims that he will not agree with lynching into it. Like, I don't disagree with the sentiment, but if that's the case, then why post the list in the first place? All it serves to do is make people suspicious of the people that, by his estimation, people should be listening to moving forward. A townie-feeling post by Palmar which gave me a town-read on him until I read on. It's the kind of posting I'd expect to, well, expect from townPalmar. Only thing I didn't like was the hint of AtE (Appeal to Emotion) in saying Syllo would normally call him 'annoying'. Defense of his playstyle when questioned. Please note that by his estimation, we should all "Establish our innocence" before "scumhunt". Discrediting red's case against him without really defending himself. Just calls it bad, and attempts to discredit me by saying that it's bad because I agree with it. I'm not the best player in the world, but I'm certainly not the worst. Ask Palmar WHY I tunnel him every time I'm town. His actual defense of red's case. Here are his points. 1) Setup/Balance speculation is not scummy. 2) I wasn't rolefishing 3) Meta: See Me and Syllo play together. To which I respond: 1) It is when it's all you're doing. Commenting on what's happening in the game and giving your reads is actually contributing. Setup speculation and suggesting no lynch when there's literally NO reason to assume something like that is even going to be possible is fucking scummy. 2) It felt like rolefishing to me too bro - just saying it's not and calling people dumb for suggesting it is fucking scummy. 3) Meta: Useless when applied to self. Useless and fucking scummy. Palmar giving excuse for knowing my alignment already. More useless discrediting of VE. Like, this is something I'll never understand. In a game where we are so uncertain of everyone's alignment, what purpose does it serve in a town-mindset to belittle our neighbors? It might get him a couple of sheep votes in the end, but what if he's successful and leads a mislynch? Then town is all up in arms and he's suspect #1 right? It doesn't make sense. As scum though, it makes perfect sense. It's a way to get townies all riled up. It's a way to bully them into doing what you want them to do. It's a way to defend yourself without using logic or reason. For Glory! begins Palmar's descent into lying, trolling and mischief. Alone, these aren't scum-tells..but taken with everything else, I feel it's pretty damning. Defense of scummy manipulation. Like, gambit? Really? You lied, threatened and ultimately caused the death of 'your homeboy' on a gambit? Because you thought v7 was lying about his notes? OKAAAAY! More fluff. More discrediting. I'd like to point out that at this point, I've decided that Palmar is going to be the lynch for today. More defense of his manipulation, but with bonus "VE is a retard". Cool story bro! And now, not just VE is retarded, but ANYONE voting on Palmar is bad/stupid/new. Sticks with his weak reason for manipulating v7. Appeals to Authority hard. "Look at all those vets NOT voting for Palmar! Hmmmmm" Here's the Real Appeal where he calls specifically on the vets to swoop in and save him. It appears to have worked with Sandroba. Possible scumbuddies? Holy Scum-Claim Batman! Not really, but really, let's think a minute. Clearly Palmar's role is legit. He claimed Floridian, an extra vote appeared on Hier just as he said it would. Here's what gets me though. If it were a town-aligned role, why would the vote show up as "Anonymous" rather than have his name on it? "HERP VE so he can use it without claiming! DERP" Riiiight...except, why would a town-aligned player need to do that? Why would a town-aligned player even use that role? It's been said already, but I'd like to reitterate that normally vote-rigging roles are scum roles. They just make more sense as scum roles. Therefor, I believe Palmar's role-claim. I think he's a scum Floridian. Here (10:13PM) we see Palmar agree to switch both of his votes to Lanaia. I mean, he said she was "a bad lynch" (7:30PM), but hey, gotta avoid that no-lynch, right? Right guys? Oh wait...in Palmar's "sign-off post", he makes it very clear that no-lynch is preferable to killing townies! Also makes it clear, again, for the third or fourth time (I lost count), that anyone voting for him is bad/stupid/new or scum. I'm not scum, and I was voting for him. Palmar confirming that he DID get syllogism's request to switch his vote back. Does so. What galls me is that he's got the nerve to call my play bad. I haven't even started playing yet bud. You're just lucky I wasn't around for the end of the day yesterday. Your ass hangs today. Scum. tl;dr Palmar | ||
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