EPTStudent Mafia (New/Newish players welcome)
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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Really excited to get the game going though. glhf town. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote: For those of you playing your first game, hi!  There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why? Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Hi, I would agree with your view on both lynching liars and not lynching lurkers. Unfortunately in a Newbie game I would expect to have a decent amount of lurkers and from what I've found scum are more willing to participate a decent amount and the lurkers are generally bored townies. The best way to help town is to remain active and always post your opinions/reads. if townies aren't posting it becomes extremely difficult to discover who is scum. I agree that we should lynch all liars, if you are town simply don't lie; it may seem awesome to fakeclaim a role to try to trick mafia into roleblocking/attacking you but it will usually just result in chaos and distract the town. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well. IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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reading through thread now. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Ey215: He took a post from blazinghand calling him a lurker and acted very defensively. I believe that this is a trait that would be found among Mafia or Town. (I mean nobody wants to get lynched ) I think he is someone who I should watch more but he is contributing so he should not be lynched today.Velinath: I think Velinath is making a lot of sense right now and is another candidate that is very likely to be town. He seems to be actively scumhunting and was right when he said that ey215/Blazinghand should back off of each other for a bit and let other people post because tunneling on one person is not the best (especially since I think they're both town blazing a bit more sure than Ey215) Xsksc : He is participating a fair amount to the thread an altering viewpoint to Blazinghand saying that he should give everyone a chance to post before voting and that it is unlikely that the lurkers would be scum. I'm not sure about his alignment but he is right that we are focusing way too much on lurkers. We should only be voting for lurkers if we cannot find a good case on an active player. (because even though it's unlikely that the lurker is scum he is not participating and will not help the game.) Xtfftc: He is a null read for me. He has posted enough to avoid being lynched as a lurker, which is who the town has been pressuring so far. He has kind of tunneled on Ey215, but i don't see why he is mafia he just seems very defensive. I really don't understand why you would not lynch somebody for lying as we've made it clear that we don't want any townies to lie. Tunkeg: I like how Tunkeg has been participating in the thread and his willingness to comment on every player rather than tunneling hard on somebody. It looks to me like you are really analyzing every players posts and that makes me think you are likely to be town. Everybody else (unless I'm missing something) did not post a huge amount to the game and needs to start posting more. I would much prefer that our first lynch is based off of analysis so that we can see why people are voting the way that they are, but we have no choice other than to lynch a lurker if you do not become more active. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Ok, read through the thread now. A few things: [QUOTE]On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote: [QUOTE]On December 04 2011 23:21 xtfftc wrote: Tunkeg, I approve of the way you're pressuring but would you mind answering the questions you've been so happy to ask the others? Not just a summary of the thread activity but how this makes people more or less likely to be mafia. Who do you trust and who would you lynch?[/QUOTE] Of course. Some of the answers I have asked I have summarized in my opening post. But I will be more spesific about my thoughts on players alignment and who I at this moment would lynch if I had: + Show Spoiler + Alignment For a starter I don't think the scum players have been all that active yet. Adam4167 Neutral. Got to little info on him, only 2 posts. Abit scummy that he makes the first post after the game starts, and then do nothing (almost) when the discussions get going. Grackorini Neutral. Not a whole lot of posts here either. Mainly policy posts, but I agree on his point of view here. And I am leaning town here. Velinath Neutral. Leaning town. Alot of posts, some of them I see as pro town, but also alot of fillers whic I see as pro scum. xtfftc Neutral. Abit to many policy posts for my liking. The other posts are ok/good. Especially this last post where you called me out I see as very pro-town (Unless you are scum and think my ramblings are bad for town  )xsksc Scum. If I had to pick three scums right now xsksc would be my third pick, I'd say more based on a hunch and not so much reasoning. It is his way of gaining trust, while not really providing any pressure to anyone or other pro town activities. jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town. ey215 Town. Even though coming of as very defensive, his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand. Blazinghand Town. Aggreessive play, scumhunting. May be spreading his votes around to much, but for now I see him as the most towniest. BroodKingEXE Neutral, leaning scum. He is posting far to little, but I think it is because he is new. Hopefully if more people challange him with direct questions it will be easier to get a read on him. He is the fourth scummiest though. ElectricBlack Neutral. One post, hard to say anything. Needs to post more or be considered a lurker. Hassybaby Scum. Another veteran, and this one have not posted yet. [b]Bbyte Neutral, leaning town. Not many posts yet. But seems open and are answering questions given to him. [b]Trust and lynch At this point I trust no one, I know to little yet. For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. [/QUOTE] Firstly, I'm honoured that you think I'm a veteran, but you're totally wrong. I'm not a veteran in any way shape or form. This is my second game, and my first game was XLVII, and we all know how that went Secondly, while I've already addressed this point to Blazing, I want to emphasize this one a bit more, because I'm wondering about your methods considering the game situation. It's been just over half a day in a game that suddenly started, and you already have a scumlist based on the fact that people haven't posted? Really? The day lasts 48 for a reason dude; time-zones exist, as does RL. I've already mentioned to Blazing that I have been out all day, and I didn't even know that the game had started until I came back home. I suspect that there are one or two others in the same boat. So actually wait for responses before instantly preparing the gallows. While its awesome that you guys are getting the ball rolling, you have to remember that pushing easy targets this earlier is actually very anti-town. You're basing your actions on very limited information, if any, and you're also discouraging discussions, and instead forcing players to defend themselves as opposed to looking at evidence and discussing THAT with people. At no point is that a good idea. This goes especially to you Tunkeg, because right now it feels like you're playing the Serejai role from XLVII. Accusing everyone isn't going to help. In fact, it can easily get you ignored in the thread. Accusing people is fine, but do it within reason considering situations in the game. I would actually agree with this. While i think that your'e activity and posting so far is pro-town, I really wish that we could start taking a look into the more active players; and stop focusing only on people who have not posted much yet. give the players time to read the thread and they will post. then we can start focusing on them but for now look at some active players. Obviously if a lurker does not make a sufficient amount of quality posts by the end of the day and there is no likely scum candidate then we will lynch him. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote: If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating. You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =). This guy is most likely to be scum IMO. He has not contributed at all to town, yet he is more than willing to discredit both blazinghand and Velinath. Both of these people are giving me very strong town vibes, and just because they have been acting closely with each other in no way makes them scum. In fact from what I've noticed is that people who are willing to outright make a connection with another player is usually town. (palmar/wbg in XLVII) You need to start giving us reads and contribute to the town instead of discrediting the active townies. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 05:43 Tunkeg wrote: Blazinghand: In most of your posts thus far you have either been pressuring others or responding to the response of players pressured. You have tried to get the lurkers to talk. Now, what is your view on those who have been doing a fair amount of posting? Thank you for this! the town was getting way too focused on looking for people lurking to lynch instead of analyzing people. That being said Electricblack/BroodkingEXE/BByte/Adam4167. you guys are all people who are lurking the thread and need to step up your game. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 04:49 ey215 wrote: Ok, just got back to the thread and I'll respond to things as I see them. I agree that we've reached a consensus to get rid of a lurker. That means lurkers, it's your time to step up and contribute. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR A LURKER TO LYNCH, I wish every one of these players would start doing their part and contribute to town. My first priority is to analyze the active players and if as a town we cannot agree upon a scummy player then we should choose a lurker because they will remain a null read. Instead of looking at active players your first priority is to look for a lurker to lynch, which i consider just finding an easy lynch without having to justify why you actually think that the player is scum. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 06:54 jaybrundage wrote: Grack whos your biggest scum read. Atm im still thinking adam what do you think I am in really leaning scum on Adam as well. He is still not contributing at all and all he did was try to discredit the town. I still want to get more information before putting in a vote though and really wish that he/ the rest of the lurkers start talking. If he doesn't say anything to change my mind I will vote for Adam | ||
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Grackaroni
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Can you post what your biggest town reads are, and people who you believe are being anti-town | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 04 2011 23:20 BByte wrote: Of those who've actually posted BroodKingEXE reads a bit scummy to me. He has only offered some comments about policy and made a lot of apologies. That alone doesn't make him scum, but it's something. ey215 reads town to me. He defended himself well and raised some valid concerns while doing so. Good thing it seems most of the town isn't too intimidated by Blazinghand's style. I'd also lean towards town on Blazinghand and you at this point. That's simply for actively pushing discussion other than policy. That's too easy easy a topic for the mafia to take part in. Here you agree with the rest of the town(-adam) that Blazing is town and that BroodkingEXE might be scum because he is not posting. You also think that Ey215 is town but get a change of heart. On December 05 2011 08:16 BByte wrote: ey215: Here you seem to state that we should get rid of a lurker. That seems to imply lynching, though it's not specified. Am I just misreading here? And here you're both arguing against a lurker lynch and for it? I disagree with you on lynching a lurker in the current situation. I don't really even think we have real lurkers at this point. There are already enough posts to get reads on people, and there will be more before the lynch. Of course activity can still be a factor in the evaluation. One policy post and one (drunken? ) response to some finger pointing isn't too much to go on.His response is somewhat accusatory, but he gives seemingly straight answers to the questions. Not a scum read for me, but of course we're waiting to hear more from him. Now without directly saying anything about Ey215's alignment it looks a lot like you've flip-flopped on your opinion of him but I'm not sure if what you posted was intending to say that he was scum. For the record, we have lurkers and right now you are giving a lot less content than most of the town.Please tell me you're strongest town reads and people who you think are acting anti-town. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 04:06 Grackaroni wrote: This guy is most likely to be scum IMO. He has not contributed at all to town, yet he is more than willing to discredit both blazinghand and Velinath. Both of these people are giving me very strong town vibes, and just because they have been acting closely with each other in no way makes them scum. In fact from what I've noticed is that people who are willing to outright make a connection with another player is usually town. (palmar/wbg in XLVII) You need to start giving us reads and contribute to the town instead of discrediting the active townies. ##Vote: Adam4167 Add to the fact that he has contributed yet, and I said that he would be my vote unless he contributed something that would change my mind. | ||
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On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote: Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! I like the point that it would be a bad move for Adam to post that Blazinghand was anti-town. But it also could have easily been a spur of the moment kind of thing. Blazing accuses him so he tries to discredit him rather than defending himself without thinking it through. Electric black definitely needs to post more and is lurking hardcore. It's good to point out that Blazinghand is not a confirmed townie, and sometimes I have been treating him as such. He has posted a great deal, given some good analysis and has definitely brought a lot of attention to himself. I think he is at least 95% town (what new scum would want to draw this much attention to himself) but if he ends up being scum it should be fairly obvious due to how much hes posted. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote: He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. I don't understand though from a scum perspective why he would say that Hassy is scum instead of jumping on the Adam bandwagon. Unless maybe they're both scum; it just seems like him not voting isn't enough to make me switch my vote. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Grackaroni
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We still have some time before the lynch, I'm going to wait for more posts from both Adam/EB before I'm sure about my vote but for now I'm going to leave it on Adam | ||
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On December 05 2011 11:30 Blazinghand wrote: Unfortunately, there's not much more to be said about EB due to his low post count, but after dinner I'll do some analysis on Adam's posting so far, since I DID vote for him initially. Yeah that's why it's such a hard decision between them. Right now I feel like Adam is more likely to flip scum and that EB will flip shitty townie. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 11:47 Blazinghand wrote: It's possible EB is a fool and not a knave; but if he is a fool he's enough of one to appear a knave, and flagrantly so. It seems like a pretty stupid strategy for a scum player to behave like he did. His attitude alone makes people want to vote for him. That said If Adam makes some solid analysis I will switch my vote. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 11:59 Blazinghand wrote: tl;dr: it's just as dumb for a town player to behave as he did as a scum player, so I'm not sure that argument fully applies. Still waiting on adam. That's a good point my logic was bad. He's a bad player either way for sure and is prbly just as likely to have behaved that way as scum as he would as town. I have this belief that the scum players would care more about the game than town and thus would act/play smarter. Adam was offline for a while so it will prbly take him some time to catch up with the thread. | ||
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On December 05 2011 12:39 xsksc wrote: Just out of interest, how many people are awake and active at this sort of time? Me, but I'm probably going to be sleeping pretty soon | ||
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On December 04 2011 21:12 xsksc wrote: Also, you make it sound like I've not been scum-hunting, which is a little unfair I think. I got the thread going, which gave us the content we need to analyse with. I've also noted how certain people are interacting, how people responded to pressure, how people feel about policies, etc etc. It will all be useful when it comes to deciding the lynch. Just because I haven't made a "dis guy hasn't posted 10 hours in so he must be scum" post, doesn't mean I'm not scum-hunting. The reason people think that you aren't scum hunting is because by just glancing through your filter you didn't seem to be doing any scum hunting until you gave us your list of reads recently. You should probably be more vocal about posts you find that seem suspicious. + Show Spoiler + On December 05 2011 11:49 xsksc wrote: This is my list of reads/thoughts/general opinnions about people for the first half of day 1. Adam4167 Possible lynch Looks like a major candidate for the lynch at the moment. I wouldn't strongly disagree with this, his small ammount of posts don't bode well for him. I do have trouble believing a noobie scum would actively pick a fight with 2 of towns leading figures, that doesn't make sense to me. BByte Unsure He has only 4 posts with a decent ammount of content, not a lot to go on. Velinath seems a bit of a weird target to go after though, and BByte's case on him seems a bit half-assed. Velinath's posts are a a little fluffy, but I'm not getting a scum read on him, at least not from your case. I don't think Velinath is a good day 1 lynch, at least not for the moment. Blazinghand Leaning town Blazinghand so far has been very aggressive, which is good for town. He started out a little over-the-top, attacking europeans who were at that time asleep. He has since made much more sense, forced the lurkers to unburrow, got some active discussion going, which is all pro-town. Nobody is confirmed town until they flip, but I think he's working hard to be pro-town. BroodKingEXE Town lurker/Maybe Scum A lot of one liners and a list. Really, not a lot to go on with this guy either -_- Possible candidate for a lurker-lynch, if we go down that path. ElectricBlack Scum This guy would be a GREAT lynch. He claims to be happy lynching Hassybaby, but when the pressure is put on him to put action behind words, he get's pissed off and doesn't vote to SPITE town? That's so fucking incredibly anti-town. He better have a good defence ready when he wakes up. ey215 Town? First post of his to take note of is this : He's very defensive at the slightest pressure, which is interesting, but by itself isn't scummy. His later posts look pro-town I haven't seen anything really suspicious or scummy out of him. On my townie list for now. Grackaroni Hassybaby Jaybrundage xtfftc Neutral These guys all seem to fall under the same category. They aren't looking incredibly pro-town, but there's not much scummy about them either. I'll leave them here for now. Tunkeg Suspicious This guy jumps straight into the thread, with his first post being a list of reads. 4 posts later.... Suddenly I go from "town educator" in your first list to being on your scum list based off a hunch. Between the time of your two read posts, what did I post to change your mind so drastically? Where did you get this "hunch"? This is what I find suspicious, in a short ammount of time your reads change for almost no reason, with nothing to back it up, please provide more reasoning and analysis as to why you came to those conclusions in the future. Velinath Leaning town It's been mentioned that this guy seems to be echoing what others have already said. I wouldn't disagree with this, but I'm not putting him on my scum list just because he posts fluff. At least he IS posting a large ammount, which gives us more stuff to work with on day 2 than the guys with 5-10 posts. He's active, and he's trying to be pro-town. I'll put him on the townie list for now. I think that's everyone, so far the game has been good for town I think, plenty of discussion and pressure. That being said I like a lot of your reads, and they are pretty similar to mine. EB and Adam are the best scum reads the town has right now, one of them should be lynched day1 because they both look scummy and so far neither has contributed. (but Adam is about to so looking forward to that) BByte is going to remain unsure because he doesn't post nearly as much as most of the town. Tunkeg said something about a hidden agenda for Xtfftc, which I wish he could elaborate on, and his scum reads a bit off. I am kind of neutral on Ey215 so I wouldn't have called him town. xsksc is still a null read for me, he has a lot of the same reads as me but its only day1 and my reads could still be way off. Just for reference he played scum in newbie mini mafia, so if you are having a hard time reading him it might help to see how he tends to act as scum. | ||
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Grackaroni
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On December 05 2011 12:50 jaybrundage wrote: Grack what do you think of xsksc posts. it was a good bit of info I do like that he posts some analyze finally hopefully he can keep on the ball :p | ||
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On December 05 2011 13:33 xsksc wrote: That's because I spent the first early hours of the game creating and participating in discussion. If you don't have discussion you can't pick apart peoples posts and analyse. That post of mine you quoted is from over 15 hours ago, it's way easier to scum hunt now we have all this content. yeah you did, you were the first one to start the discussion with the policy lynches and I appreciate that. I actually like your response to what I said because it seems a lot like what you felt here On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote: Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy. Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. People got called out during the start of the game (including myself) for only posting about policy lynches thus making us lurkers. There really wasn't much going on at that time and no real scum hunting was happening. You were just inactive at the wrong time due to different time zones. So at the time that everyone was just beginning to scumhunt and post their reads you were absent. Now you've shown us your reads and done a pretty good job of explaining them. | ||
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On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote: To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town This quote + his changing of opinion on xsksc without anything further happening in the thread make Tunkeg suspicious. Tunkeg has shown some inconsistencies between what he puts on his reads and what he actually feels. @Blazinghand : You're my strongest town read and have shown that you're good at analyzing, can you give me you're opinion on Tunkeg once you get back from dinner. | ||
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Grackaroni
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Would like to see more Adam/EB(less pissed off and emotional) and Tunkeg posts. Good Night! | ||
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@Velinath we need to get out of this attitude of accusing people for being absent from the thread for more than 12 hours. I feel like it's starting to cause chaos because we end up accusing everybody for not posting much when it's likely that they may have been busy. That said xsksc and I came to the conclusion that Tunkeg was suspicious because he switched his reads without xsksc saying anything else in the thread. He goes from saying : xsksc: Is taking on the role of an educator this far. Telling us noobs how this game works. This gives him a strong position, and a easily abused position. So far his posts have been educationally and only that. I expect more from a "veteran" like you. Post some analysis, do more, help us scumhunt! In the first post it seems like he may be leaning town but only within a few hours, during a time when xsksc didn't say anything at all he changes his mind to believing he is scum: xsksc Scum. If I had to pick three scums right now xsksc would be my third pick, I'd say more based on a hunch and not so much reasoning. It is his way of gaining trust, while not really providing any pressure to anyone or other pro town activities. On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote: To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town Once again it seems like from just a little bit of pressure he decided to change his reads, which just seems inconsistent to me. At the end of your filter you alluded something about a hidden agenda to Xfftc's posts. I am interested in this because he is definitely a null read for me at the moment, and I'm curious if you're still suspicious of him after the changes in the the thread. I wouldn't blame you if you think there is better lynches right now because a lot has changed. As of right now I would be satisfied with a Tunkeg or a Hassybaby lynch. if somebody still wants to push a strong case for an Adam/EB lynch I would still be open to that. I Definitely want to hear some of your opinions Tunkeg. | ||
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On December 06 2011 00:31 Velinath wrote: Alright, that's fair Grack - but let's look at BByte. He posts once a few times 17 hours ago, comes back 8 hours ago to post one thing. He states in the thread that he'd post thoughts if needed, but he hasn't done that - a couple sentences here or there. I missed one of BByte's posts, but it didn't say a whole lot anyway. A wishy-washy "well, the cases look good, but that might change when they post" isn't really content. I'd posit that when accusing someone of not having content in your posts, you should probably have some yourself. I'll stay on his case until he defends himself from my vote. I would support a Hassybaby lynch as well, considering what multiple people have said about him. His vote reasoning is beyond weak. Tunkeg, I'm not so sure about. His early posts were decent and he did apply some effective pressure, but I agree that changing his reads twice in such a short frame of time is suspicious. I agree with you that BByte clearly has not been doing a good job playing so far from a scum/town perspective. He still hasn't contributed to the game and his case on you looks weak. tbh it almost looks like an OMGUS response to the fact that you voted for him before. @BByte : It is pretty clear right now that Velinath is not going to be somebody discussed in the day1 lynch. I suggest you either find a much better case on Velinath; or choose a candidate that is more likely to be scum. As of right now you are wasting your vote. | ||
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@He voted for xsksc earlier on the basis that he was not doing much scumhunting, your case is now fairly outdated and xsksc has been participating a lot in the thread. I'm curious if his recent posts have made you stick to your original feeling or changed your mind. I'm sorry that I probably wont be back on for 4 hours. The tunneling between you guys is good and helps to develop reads, For people watching though try to remember that there is still a chance that this is a townie vs townie argument, and that the scum might be smiling right now without having to act. My read still makes me think that Tunkeg/Hassybaby are the best votes today I would reccomend wasted votes that arent going to lead to a lynch please take a stance on a more likely candidate. the votes on Veli/Jay are wasted votes, they are not going to be lynched today. If nobody wants to put votes on BByte or BroodKingEXE i would suggest you change yours as well. | ||
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HassyBaby could still be a good lynch for today. | ||
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On December 06 2011 05:12 ElectricBlack wrote: adam's probably not scum. xsksc I'm on the fence about, and I haven't read bbyte well enough through to make the call. Why are you ignoring my case against Hassybaby? You guys should definitely take the time to read EB's case on Hassy if you haven't done so, its a really well written argument and to me makes a lot of sense. | ||
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On December 06 2011 06:21 Tunkeg wrote: I am happy I took a step back and didn't pursue the argument with xsksc. The argument itself was to long, and it looks like the activity in the thread have suffered from it. I still think he is scum for the reasons previous listed, and I will uphold my vote on him. I will change it though if him getting lynched are highly unlikely by the time I have to go to bed (approxiumately 2 hours). So if you consider voting for him, vote before that time. I do not like him jumping ship on me, leaving for Bbyte. That beeing said, I am more conserned with Grackaronis vote at the moment. His vote came right after xsksc's vote. He have been xsksc's parrot after xsksc's switch to aggressive. That beeing said I have not taken a stance on the votes on Bbyte, I need to read more of his posts to make sure if he is really as lurky and scummy as you guys portray him. Finally I would like to say that I am not against lynching lurkers, as stated in my opening post, but only if we can't find others who appear scummy. Lynching a scummy non-lurker will IMO give more information to the town, than lynching a lurker. I do believe that xsksc is town and did side with him against you. in fact I started getting suspicious of you a while ago. if you are looking for somebody to blame for putting pressure on you, I started agreeing with the suspicion of you changing his mind about him after Jaybrundage asked me what I thought of xsksc. I am probably one of the reasons you got a lot of attention, but I have been making my own decisions On December 05 2011 14:21 Grackaroni wrote: Here is another quote that makes me fairly suspicious of Tunkeg : This quote + his changing of opinion on xsksc without anything further happening in the thread make Tunkeg suspicious. Tunkeg has shown some inconsistencies between what he puts on his reads and what he actually feels. @Blazinghand : You're my strongest town read and have shown that you're good at analyzing, can you give me you're opinion on Tunkeg once you get back from dinner. I don't like that you are accusing me of "parroting xsksc." He is on my town list and I have been siding with him but I am still making my own decisions. My vote was on Adam at the time and it simply didn't seem like you were going to be lynched and I'm still not positive you are mafia. BByte has not contributed and has a stupid (what seems to be an OMGUS) vote on Veli. I think that this is just a bad move but it is possible that he purposely put his vote on somebody not going to be lynched to distance himself from any blame. Is it likely that he is scum? probably not. Will he contribute at all to the game? Even more likely not. I've said throughout the game that we should look for a strong analysis on the active players before we look to lynch a lurker. I feel we have done a lot of analyzing and it is unlikely that we will agree on who is mafia in the time we have left. , I don't want to join your bandwagon on xsksc and the only other person who had a chance to be lynched was xsksc/adam It looked like from the tunneling between xsksc and You that 2 sides were beginning to form Me supporting xsksc and Xtfftc supporting Tunkeg. Perhaps this should be looked at for future reads but I'm not sure it says too much about anyone's alignment. It is entirely possible that both you and xsksc is town. I still feel that Hassybaby should be looked at as a target for the lynch. If you want to know why once again read EB's case. If you would like to accuse me of being scum, please look through my filter and build a case. I would much rather you do that than mildly hinting that I have been "parroting" Xsksc. | ||
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The other options right now were Adam/Xsksc/Hassybaby but I don't think any of them will be lynched. BByte is our best option atm, we tried to get some good scumreads and I think we've had some helpful discussions. The town cannot yet agree on a likely scum so we will have to opt for a lurker. | ||
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NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game. He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his. I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to. The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town. The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum. I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started. I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment. I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...) My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's. My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me. When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as: OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF! HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN! BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY! just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win. | ||
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On December 07 2011 04:09 Blazinghand wrote: Hm. That's true, the extra 24 hours may make the difference. On the other hand, it's worth noting that at the beginning of the day, we do receive another piece of information: assuming that either (a) there is no doctor or (b) the doctor guesses wrong, one of us dies and is a confirmed townie or blue. A dead confirmed townie or blue, but a confirmed townie or blue no less. This information might be unhelpful but it could also play a big role in terms of analysis. Seeing the flips can definitely help your own reads, I suggest that you try to reread the thread after each death because it may give you some new perspective. That said do not use the flips as a base for a case against somebody because that is likely to have been manipulated by scum | ||
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Keep in mind what I said earlier, EB made a case on Hassy; EB's death doesn't necessarily mean that Hassy is mafia. I must admit though that this was an unexpected death IMO. | ||
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I need some time to catch up with the thread and then I will give you my opinions. I have plenty of time to play today so if you want my comments on something I'll answer them. | ||
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On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote: Ok, my apologies guys. I was under the impression that we didn't have to post/do anything during the night phase unless we were mafia/blue. I choose to study for my final in the morning instead of checking the thread. I'd like to take the discussion in at least a mildly different direction and ask if we should be acting on the information we got by the mafia offing EB. Frankly, I was a little surprised they didn't go after Blazing unless they thought we'd have a medic and they'd be protecting him. Also, do they want us lynching one of the three people (if I recall correctly) that EB had focused on or did they get rid of him to shut him up and keep him from persuading us? I'm personally of the opinion that we should lynch the scummiest of jayb, xtf, or hassey and see where that leads us. I'm still not completely caught up with the thread but this is my reasoning for EB's death. EB wasn't the most active townie but he did show that he could post a strong case, whether the case on Hassy was true or not. BH was easily seen as the most trusted townie; It would be foolish for them to kill him because there was definitely a medic or a watcher on him. BH not dying in no way means that he is mafia. On December 06 2011 10:37 ElectricBlack wrote: Ignore Blazinghand's advice. It's not the best way to proceed. The mafia has exactly one night kill, and any vanilla townie would be happy to be at the receiving end, so they should post and make the mafia afraid of them during the night. Incidentally, the blue roles should do the same, as to not stand out from the vanilla townies. This is to be expected, It is very easy for mafia to deflect the day 1 lynch onto an inactive/scummy townie. I hope tomorrow we can resume playing on a more analytical basis. There was no reason to kill this guy over for example Hassybaby. EB made a quote about blue roles during the night, generally blue's tend to talk more about Blue roles than vanilla townies. My guess is that the Mafia was simply trying to hunt for blues. | ||
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On December 07 2011 10:18 Blazinghand wrote: This is the principle core of my argument. Jaybrundage, for the most part, presents a vaguely helpful-sounding face but never actually does anything. And this final post, here? This post is a post that could have helped, but he waited until 1 minute after the polls closed. He did it because he wanted BByte dead, but he wanted to LOOK like he wanted to stop it. Think about the motivations behind a post like this. Think carefully, and form your own judgement. Ladies and Gentlemen, there's no way a town player would make this post. No way at all. This is definitely the best case for why JB is scum. On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote: Well looks like Bbyte is going to be the lynch target of today. Its weird when ever BH sets his sight on someone it seems most everyone follows suit. While i believe his vote on veli was really out of place and not supported with much evidence i do think that it would be odd for a mafia to just vote someone seemingly pro-town. Without any support. Im not going to vote for him because i don't think hes mafia. BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. Here he states that he won't vote for BByte because he doesn't think he's mafia. This post seems like it's meant to make him look pro-town after BByte flips town. He gives no reasons for why he doesn't think BByte is mafia other than a couple of times saying that his case on Veli changed his mind. Frankly his case on Veli did nothing to convince me he was town. On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote: Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. Why do you put in "I dont have a good feeling about this" If you are against the vote take a stance and help show people why you think that BByte is town. All you're saying in this post is something to look back at so you can say something like: "Look! I was against lynching this townie." On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote: I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself. I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote: In the last 2 quotes he does the same thing as before, he posts lines that make it look like he is against the lynch but not actually defending BByte:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. This is the main argument for why JB is scum, when choosing your vote try not to factor in the random points such as JB asking EB's opinion after he was already dead. The logic behind those posts are much more spotty because it's entirely possible that he was writing the post before the death post came. @JB: I can see the point that you think BH and Veli came after BByte because he was posting a case against Veli, Much like Adam was targeted for thinking BH/Veli were suspicious. I'd like to see some more reasoning besides the fact that BByte/Adam were the lynch targets. I will look more closely into what you are saying. | ||
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@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote. | ||
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On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote: I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: Here Here Here Here Here BKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Great find. I like the case from BH about Jays hedging and how he continuously posted that he was against the BByte lynch just for the sake of being able to show that he was against it. He did not once actually stand up for BByte On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote: Well looks like Bbyte is going to be the lynch target of today. Its weird when ever BH sets his sight on someone it seems most everyone follows suit. While i believe his vote on veli was really out of place and not supported with much evidence i do think that it would be odd for a mafia to just vote someone seemingly pro-town. Without any support. Im not going to vote for him because i don't think hes mafia. BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. If you did not believe that BByte was mafia why didn't you stand up for him? All you did was continually say you were against the lynch and that you wish he would be able to come defend himself. You have been more than willing to stand up for BKEXE multiple times this game, but won't stand up for BByte? If JB flips scum BKEXE definitely deserves a lot of attention. I am convinced that JB is scum ##Vote: Jaybrundage | ||
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On December 09 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote: Ok, I was going to save this for tomorrow as I didn’t think I was going to need it today and was still doing the research, but Tunkeg’s probability lynching forced my hand. For the record, I do think Tunkeg is onto something. I’ll start that by saying that I understand why he left himself out, but it would be wise of the town to remember that he too voted for BByte and needs to be looked at just as strongly as the rest of us. I’m not making that case here, mainly because after reading his stuff I don’t think he’s scum, but some other eyes on it would be nice. The only thing that has me concerned about him at the moment is the way he’s grabbed onto xttfc’s case against me, then managed to put my name twice into his lists on the probability lynches and then mildly pushed BH to look at it deeper, therefore potentially getting a bandwagon rolling. For today, I’m not that worried about it but look in the future how these cases and lynches of townies developed. I have come to believe that the mafia started laying the groundwork for future cases on townies in Day 1 so as not to appear to just be switching from one day to another. At the time that this case started against me, I was looking like I’d be a counter weight to BH and therefore might have some persuasive power around here. It has not turned out that way, but remember the context when this starts. At that point in Day 1, BH and I had our argument, got over it and moved on, then xtfftc comes around and decides that based off of being defensive and to make sure to hammer that point home cherry picks some quotes out of context and uses them six hours later to plant his seeds. + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2011 21:18 xtfftc wrote: Policy or not, everyone should be doing this. Mafia are bound to slip and they will also be reluctant to talk about their teammates slipping, so this is very pro-town behaviour. If you see something you consider to be a lie, mention it. You might be wrong but it's important anyway. And it will also help differentiate between townies who are hunting for mafia and the mafia players who are trying not to attract attention. (I still think that pushing for heavy policies is pro-mafia though, it takes the pressure away from them by allowing them to follow some simple guidelines) Town doesn't benefit from last minute lynches, mafia does. If you see someone suddenly pushing for a lynch near the deadline when there isn't enough time for a proper discussion, it is very likely that this person is mafia. Dude, no need to be so defensive. Blazinghand is trying hard to organise the town. I don't agree with some of his ideas but they are stuff to be discussed. There is absolutely no need for a townie to react like you did. Blazing's play so far is great. Then he gives this gem: If I’m such a strong read, why didn’t you push to lynch me at all Day 1? I put forth the theory that no one responded really latched onto the idea, and you didn’t want to go out of your way to stand out that early. You’ve been setting up this Day 2 attempt at a lynch since yesterday. Also, while this is going on we get Grackaroni coming around and starts by giving this read on me: Then starts subtlety leading Tunked to me: So they let it go for the day and don’t really try to get the bandwagon going. Now look what happens today, we get the case against me followed almost immediately by a post by Grackaroni trying to get BH to take a look: The beauty of those two posts by Grackaroni is that they allow him to steer how other people my look at someone and get them to make the case on me, instead of he having to do it himself. He can let BH get or not get a bandwagon going, and no one remembers the actual post that started him down that road. I believe these two have been working together from the outset and the only side that could coordinate like that is mafia. Now, again I’d like to see xtfftc respond to some accusations about him without just brushing it off as trolling as he did with EB. Since EB was conveniently killed overnight, he wasn’t here to defend himself and xtfftc was let off scot free. Again, killing EB made no sense unless he was on to at least one scum in that list. I currently think it was two, Jay and xtfftc. I know you're asking yourself this townies, "But wait! You can't prove any of this unless you're town and we're not sure that you are!". Yes, I know that's why I expect that if the lynch goes through tonight you'll be able to use some of this on Day 3. So, my scum list: jaybrundage, xtfftc, Grackaroni Enjoy. For reference the first quote you took from me is very old. Your mafia team consists of the 1 person that everyone agrees is scum, Xtfftc, who voted and made a case against you. And me, who has been suspicious of you. You have a bunch of quotes from me asking people questions. I sincerely want to know why players like Tunkeg and BH continually think that you are town. Upon question Tunkeg's reads seem more inconsistent, his opinion of xsksc changed during a time when xsksc didn't even post. If anyone I was siding more with xsksc than xtfttc, look at Tunkeg/xsksc argument. I was more sure that Tunkeg was suspicious, xttftc voted for xsksc. From what I understand the basis of your case is that I am asking people questions to make them look more suspicious. I am simply asking questions to gain more information. This doesn't go as far as OMGUS, but perhaps you should consider that just because people seem to be against you, does not mean they are scum. | ||
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On December 08 2011 04:21 Blazinghand wrote: ey215, you're on the list of people I have a town read on. Could you look into xtsc/tunkeg debate a bit? I need to read up on it as well, but getting a solid read in there would also be good. Also, I can't throw out the possibility that Veli is bussing JB. I'll be examining his posting as well. If you could help with this that would be great. Replacement people: please try to get posting. We need you guys to develop a presence in the game asap. This is where I got that you felt that Ey215 was town | ||
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I just noticed that Tunkeg also changed his vote to Ey215 | ||
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On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote: By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. So you would rather follow BH to the end of the earth? a LOT of people sheeped him day1 which is just too dangerous. People were considering him a confirmed townie and if he was scum the game would be hopeless. | ||
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On December 09 2011 09:17 ey215 wrote: BH or you? I take BH. I wasn't pointing out whether you were right or wrong on the sheeping. I was pointing out that there was a groundwork being laid to get him lynched if there is a doctor and they managed to save him (if he's town) tonight. Don't use me against him, if you think he's mafia go make your case. I didn't say one time in that quote that BH was mafia. Is this the only post you have for me "laying out my groundwork to lynch him after I fail to shoot him." BH is amazing at making analysis posts and secured a spot early as the town leader. Naturally people began to sheep him which I felt was dangerous because there are no confirmed towns. Build a real case against me. What you are saying is hypothetical, that my post telling people to make their own opinions and to not sheep BH because there are no confirmed townies is groundwork for lynching him. | ||
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On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote: I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. As you can see I can take a random quote from your filter and make the same case against you quite easily. You are saying that Blazinghand is attacking newbies by asking them for their opinions. You make an argument that it is perfectly fine for you to sheep other people. (which you have done all game long) He is slapping newbies around and discouraging others from posting - you are saying he is anti-town. | ||
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On December 09 2011 09:24 ey215 wrote: Real case on you posted above. You saw it, wrote it off and moved on. Not my fault you're choosing to ignore it. You're right I did see your "real case". You said that I was asking other's opinions in order to incriminate people. You said that I posted something against you around the same timeframe that xtfftc did. then you made up some bullshit about me plotting to lynch BH day3. | ||
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On December 09 2011 09:25 ey215 wrote: Don't worry, I know where my vote's going Day 3. Also I take it from this that you are voting me because we have been arguing Was there something in my defense that really tipped you off, if so do share. On December 09 2011 08:17 ey215 wrote: That's why I said it "starts" with it. We're not accountable for what we said on day 1? . Go out and give your own analysis instead of "asking questions". My case is not that you're against me, but that you and xtfftc are working together and have been from the start. I will grant you that my read on him is stronger than you, but of the people currently alive I think you three are the scum. Nice way of calling it OMGUS while trying not to make it appear you're not. Go refute my points other than, "I'm just asking questions." You'll notice that the other person to actually vote for me is not one I listed as mafia, but you instead and I'm still bothered by how flippantly certain people have been in not using the information we have from last nights killing. Here you said that your read on xtfftc was stronger than your read on me. You can't seriously argue that my defending myself has changed your reads that easily. I think you are tunneling too hard. | ||
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On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote: By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. Also, this kind of post is exactly what you were accusing me of earlier, you said that I was asking people questions to try to make them make cases for me. You're case on me is shitty and is exactly the same thing that you did here. You take some random quote, make up a hypothetical situation that I am plotting to lynch BH and that I am a threat to him; Perhaps you are hoping that he will build a case on me for you? That way you can continue to sheep his vote as usual | ||
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On December 09 2011 09:42 Blazinghand wrote: Grack what's your read on xtfftc? lol sorry I've been too busy arguing with Ey215, ill look into him now. | ||
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The one good thing is that from the start of the game he was showing that he was suspicious of Ey215, so at least his case scum target remained consistent with who he was suspicious of. His timing is wierd though, he held off on posting the case until it seemed like Jay was completely fucked. If Jay flips scum it is definitely possible that he was trying to divert votes off of Jay, because this was his first agressive case. | ||
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JB BKEXE Xtfftc | ||
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On December 09 2011 09:55 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah It's pretty clear JB isn't town. If he were, he would have posted his final analysis by now. After he flips scum I'll spend some serious time doing a monster analysis of everyone before the night ends. There's a 1/3rd chance we don't have a doctor, and if that's the case, the mafia know the setup, so I'm gonna get shot. They'll have BKEXE do the shot so the watcher learns nothing. That being said, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we have a doctor. You have to remember though that there is at least one of a doctor/watcher, either one of them would be targeting you. I highly doubt that mafia would be willing to attack you because it risks a no-kill or trading a mafia member for you. | ||
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On December 09 2011 09:57 Blazinghand wrote: Was there a particular piece of evidence that he posted his case right after seeing? Or could he have posted it earlier? I'm just raising the possibility, I didn't look too deeply into it. Jay was already fucked for today and this was the first serious analysis he has done and he did manage to get a vote on Ey he was suspicious of Ey since the start of the game and chose now to make the case. Obviously this would not be the sole reason for a lynch, further analysis must be made. | ||
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On December 08 2011 04:57 xtfftc wrote: BH and Velinath, I think you should take a step back from Jay. You've made a very extensive case on him and the last few pages have turned into a farce with all the shouting. Unless you come up with something good to add, it might be better if you encourage other people to post their views on the issue or get another discussion going. Right here he is getting you off of Jay's back. Jay was not doing a good job of defending himself so maybe he thought if he could get people to stop focusing on him and he posted a big case on Ey215 he could change the lynch for the day. On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. He says that he is "okay" with the Jay lynch but never explains why, he also trys to discourage people from voting for Jay by comparing it to the BByte bandwagon. I think there has been a lot of evidence against Jay and people should definitely be voting for him. He promises further analysis on Jay but obviously that will not be coming. On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote: ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. Ey215, you were right when you said that your vote triggered his case on you. You should have given more reasoning in your post than that, but that said Xtfftc continues to follow his trend of soft-defending Jay. On December 09 2011 04:53 xtfftc wrote: I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . . I have overlooked Xtfftc, If Jay flips scum I still believe the scum team will be JB Xtfftc BKEXE | ||
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Do you believe that xtfttc is mafia? | ||
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BKEXE labeling Ey215 scum now continues to reinforce my belief. (Ey215 wants to lynch xtfftc) JB BKEXE. Xtfftc. That's just my thoughts, there have been cases made earlier on both of these guys. Not going to do any analysis tonight though; have to study for a test. See you guys soon! (unless I die ) | ||
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BH just showed how BKEXE tried to change the target away from JB's lynch. Most of BKEXE's defense is simply wifom. ##Vote: BroodKingEXE | ||
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On December 10 2011 17:20 xtfftc wrote: Morning everyone. I plan to post a lot over the weekend because I have very limited time during workdays. I have put enough time into EY, so I'll be leaving him alone for now unless I find something very convincing. Everything points to BKE being our best lynch today, so I won't dwell too much on why he is mafia. I will, however, analyse his relationships with the other players, because this would help us for next week. Apart from that, I'm not sure what to focus on. I really hope that layabout steps it up because xsk+Starshard have been having a very easy time. I think we need to come up with some sort of a plan. Just like yesterday with Jay, I don't think that focusing too much on BKE will do us a lot of good. If he's town, he has to do his best to catch mafia, but if he's town, he'll be happy to waste our time like Jay did (BKE, there's two mafia players alive, so you need two cases, not one.). We need to discuss at least two more things: - do we still want to lynch a lurker if there's no good case (lynching a lurker later in the game is much better than earlier as we have more town reads)? - if we have a DT, should he investigate the lurkerish players? These are not for today but for the next few days. If you think there's anything else important to discuss for the late game, don't hesitate to bring it up. I'm assuming you mean lynching a lurker on the next day because it would not make sense to lynch one over BKEXE. The problem with lynching lurkers is that it gives the town no information to go off of for future days especially if he flips town. The DT (if we have one) can choose by himself who to check based on who he thinks is scummy. If the entire town feels he should check a lurker and the DT follows that advice the mafia may choose to target a lurker. (which is not actually too bad for us since it would remove a null read anyways, but it would make us rely more heavily on our analysis of the active players over the blue roles. | ||
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I realize it's hard to catch up with the thread and all but everyone needs to be actively posting. | ||
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If you are town it is important that you get all of your thoughts out before the lynch. Right now you are exclusively pushing Ey215's case which is fine, but the more information you give us the better for town right? Please try to format your quotes correctly, it's really hard to follow who is saying what when the quotes are not done right. | ||
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On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors. I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence. Well,GG BroodKingEXE Sorry BKEXE but this is exactly what scum would do, you know that you're going to be lynched and after I asked you for who you thought Ey215's scumbuddy would be you post this. A town player would try to give as much information for the town as possible, so that even if it's no longer possible to defend himself from the lynch he could still assist the town and give them more to work off the next day. A scum player would want to leave the town with as little information possible after they get revealed. If you are scum you are making the right decision to shut up now but if you're town please keep talking. | ||
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On December 11 2011 17:29 xtfftc wrote: *** First of, nice to see you being active. Secondly - the answer to your question is in the very post you have quoted. It is pure WIFOM because the logic behind the vote I am accused for can apply to both mafia and town: However, how come you quoted just half of my explanation? This is the full one: You have cut out my actual argument: it works both ways. *** My point with this was not that you didn't vote for JayBrundage. That's what you are basing your defense off of, you say that you would either be accused of bandwagoning or not voting for the mafia. My point was that you said Jay was most likely to be scum but still didn't vote for him. Town should always vote for who they feel is scum, not voting for scum because your afraid you'll be called out for jumping on a bandwagon is scummy or at the very least sub-par play. Town's first priority is to lynch mafia. Scum's first priority is to avoid getting caught. You chose to not vote for scum because you thought it would make you get accused of bandwagoning. Who cares if you get called out? You've got nothing to hide, right? You can simply explain your reasoning for voting JB. I don't feel this can be brushed aside so easily as WIFOM. I'm not calling you out for not being on the mafia vote I'm calling you out because you said he was your strongest lead but didn't vote for him. To the contrary: this is precisely what I was doing in the above post: pushing my best mafia read. I did post it hours before posting the bit you quoted. Seriously. Now, I could have expanded it a lot but unless you expect me to spend 5-6 hours a day working on my cases, I'll never be able to analyse everything I find in-depth. If this is scummy behaviour, 3/4 of the town are playing much scummier than I am. I did write extensively on why town should not waste their vote and that I was concerned about the lack of resistance there had been to Bbyte's lynch. Plus, we agreed that last minute switches tend to benefit the mafia, so we had to ensure this didn't happen. And anyway, jumping on a bandwagon is another thing that 3/4 of the town is much guiltier than I am of, yet you only attack me for this. Why would you do such a thing? I was pretty much the only one to try to push for a lynch that was based on analysis, yet you target me for "jumping" on a bandwagon? Of course it does make sense. We had the whole town sheeping for Day 1 and Day 2, so it is necessary to have proper discussions from now on. And what it is that I am guilty of exactly? Are you suggesting that I was trying to somehow save Jay by refusing to vote for him, even though there were like 10 votes for him a few hours before the deadline? The quote where you vote for BByte once again connects with my earlier view. You're in favor of jumping on the BByte bandwagon because even though he's not your best scum read it's better than a last second surprise, OK that's fine but then you choose not to vote for Jaybrundage, who you do admit is your best scum read, and the only explanation you've given us so far is you're wifom defense of being accused of jumping on a bandwagon. Why are you afraid of being called out for bandwagoning on Jay but not on BByte? It's possible that you did have a reason for not voting you're greatest scum read. The fact of the matter is that you still haven't explained why you didn't vote for JB, all you've given us so far is the WIFOM "I would have been accused of voting JB as bandwagoning or I would have been accused of not voting scum" You've shown that you're willing to vote for bandwagons on people you're not sure are mafia but you won't for people you do think are mafia. You're defense is weak, why did you not vote your greatest scum read? | ||
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On December 12 2011 02:14 Bluelightz wrote: Its my first game dont expect much from me :p anyway im gonna look @ people's filter & post my analysis of the one i think is most scummies when i can also gottl sleep cya c: This kind of attitude is really frowned upon. It's many people's first game here. We expect you to contribute just like everybody else. On December 08 2011 00:05 Bluelightz wrote: PS: if i don't post much it's because I don't really have a good scumread on anyone if I do I'll post my analysis Even if you're not sure on a lynch just give us your opinions. You need to post your thoughts and analysis to show your alignment, not just help catch scum. Reading through you're filter, you've given us nothing and just agreed with the majority of the town. When you wake up give us some analysis, nobody cares if you're 100% sure about who is scum, it just helps to get everybody's thoughts. | ||
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On December 06 2011 04:20 xtfftc wrote: I think we have two good targets: xsk and Adam (and possibly Jay) but at least there's just one lurker in the game, so lynching Bbyte is somewhat okay. I've been very vocal about my views on policy lynches and starting another discussion on LAL won't do town any good, so I won't repeat myself. But I really think that it gives mafia an easy ride. Look at how happy xsk was to jump on it - and he's going to be asleep until the deadline, so he won't be changing his vote for a proper lynch. Obviously, I'm a minority on policies, so you can do it - but I have no reasons to consider Bbyte mafia and lynching mafia is my priority. On December 06 2011 05:49 xtfftc wrote: So, I want to lynch xsk for reprimading Blazinghand when Blazinghand was pushing the town forward; for switching from calling out Blazinghand on being too aggressive to being really aggressive himself with no proper reason (and without pushing the town agenda forward); for "pressuring" people but making sure they know that he is happy to unvote them; for jumping on the Bbyte lynch (the easy lynch at the time) after he saw that no one is happy with going after one of the players who looks a lot like town, Tunkeg. I didn't like how he defended himself yesterday (claiming that it's unfair to accuse him of not chasing mafia because he's been doing analysis... just not sharing it with us) but what followed was even worse: tunneling on EB, trying to discredit Tunkeg, and then going after the lurker. Where are his other reads? I'll post on Adam in a bit. Also, I think that if you consider one of the lynch candidates to be mafia, you should go for him. If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker. On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote: I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise. ##Unvote: xsksc ##Vote: BByte lol, you said that you fought vigorously against the BByte lynch? This is just an outright lie. before the lynch you make several statements such as: there's just one lurker in the game, so lynching Bbyte is somewhat okay. If you think that we are unlikely to catch some mafia tonight, by all means do vote for Bbyte the lurker. Then in your last post you even vote for him. "fought vigorously against the BByte lynch" is just complete and utter bullshit. You were completely willing to vote for him. | ||
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Needless to say though the chance of them both being scum together are extremely low. | ||
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On a friendlier note. @BKEXE : I think you played pretty well on your last day, you figured out how to format your posts, you came back and contributed to the game at the end and gave us your reads. (instead of the post the day before when you gave up without realizing there was over a day left.) Your play at the start was poor but you improved | ||
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BKEXE/BByte/Adam4167/EB Were the people I considered the lurkers from the start of the game. All of them have flipped and they were all vanilla townies. It seems like lurkers tend to be bored townies more often than scum trying to avoid detection. | ||
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Additional Info from night kills Both EB/Adam before they died were suspicious of xtfftc. xtfftc was accusing EB of smurfing so it may help to explain EB's early death. Nothing concrete just something that strengthens my views in my own eyes. | ||
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On December 13 2011 02:47 Velinath wrote: How do you know blues are cop and tracker this game? I don't really agree with them claiming, if they had information its probably been bread crumbed. Cop/tracker are the only blues who could have information to claim. (no doc saves) It would be really bad if a doctor claimed. | ||
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GG all. GL townies, bring it home  | ||
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On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote: To those who didn't already know, I was playing in this game as the smurf "ElectricBlack". This was of course done with the approval of the hosts: + Show Spoiler + I would like to know how the new players in this game felt about the presence of a veteran in the game. I used this article: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Being_a_good_IC as a guideline on how to handle my play this game, I tried to be less aggressive than I usually am, without cutting off that edge that makes me successful as mafia. Unfortunately the game started on a night I was out with the wife for several hours so I only got plenty of posting in later in the day. The reason for using a smurf was because I did not want the game to become about me. With all the coaches knowing me and my play, I feel an unreasonable amount of weight would've been put into my posting. I tried to call out incorrect play wherever I could, and lead by example with the case on HassyBaby. I don't think I did a magnificent job, but I think I did alright. I would very much like feedback from the players of this game, both town and scum, on how and if we should continue introducing veteran players in newbie games to help create a more useful town atmosphere. For what it's worth, the townies of this game should really be commended for creating the most awesome scumhunting atmosphere I have ever seen in a TL mafia game. Seriously, this town was better at looking town than almost any other town I've played with. Mad props to you all. Some of you may have noticed I did finger all three mafia on day 1: This is not because I'm some kinda awesome scumhunter, or because they all fucked up. What really happened this game is that the town played such a transparent, useful and good game, that simply through process of elimination I could find all the mafia. Veteran towns can learn a lot from you guys, I am thoroughly impressed with your play. When all townies look town, it's much, much easier to pick the mafia out from the rest. Can you guys please answer these questions: Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game? Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf? Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran? The bottom line from this game is that you guys, as complete newbies, managed to create the most healthy town discussion I have ever seen on day one. I can't overstate how impressed I am with it. Good Job. It seems like having a veteran in the game is a good idea. You were able to find the scum team really easily this game so it seems kind of imbalanced without having a veteran on the scum team as well. If you weren't smurfing the game would have been over in 3 days. Everybody would have blindly followed you, you would have been healed and the game would be over. Plus if you want 2 veterans on either side you would instantly know that the other veteran was scum, so better off with smurf accounts. | ||
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Thx for hosting Zona! | ||
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BH was going to heal veli and Veli was going to check bluelightz. Town was lucky I got killed because I would have made a case on BH which probably would have led to BH role claiming, me getting lynched and BH getting shot. | ||
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Also he seems to me like the kind of scum player that would follow Xtf's case on layabout and vote him to save xtf. | ||
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On December 16 2011 03:37 Velinath wrote: In retrospect, I should have just roleclaimed to ensure the lynch. 5-1 with the suspicions town had for the next two days would have won the game For sure, you claim and get it down to 5 town -1 scum, you ensure yourself at least 1 more check, in this scenario it turns out that BH was the medic so you were going to be healed without claiming, but if tunkeg or ey was the medic BH would have been healed and you would probably be killed. If I was scum you would be one of my earliest kills, you were on everybody's townie list but not nearly as likely to be protected like BH. I can sort of see a reason for why BH didn't want to claim now. Everybody assumed that he was a cop and a lot of his posts make him look blue, so if you claimed cop scum would probably realize he was the medic. | ||
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This was the post that really threw me off. "As a side note, I have some good news! Our blues are probably Doctor + DT/Watch, because there's no other reason I'd get roleblocked last night. They think I'm DT/Watcher, and as long as they keep roleblocking me our blues are free to do what they want (since they'll probably think I'm bluffing to get them to stop roleblocking me). " This doesn't really make you look less like a cop, you're practically screaming to scum that you didn't want to be roleblocked. (if you wanted to attract scum to roleblock you, you didn't have to say anything because they already believed you were a cop.) It made me think that you wanted people to believe you were a cop, which in a way I guess was accurate. | ||
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