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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Could a mod come in here and like fix these posts or something?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 14:37 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Yeah, it's a lot easier to see with the formatting that he added, it looked a lot more like original work in the first post of those 3. Thanks for the supplement.
I'm fairly certain BKEXE is bussing Jay. On the other hand, maybe he's not and he's just a shitty commentator. I'll put together my case on BKEXE...
I also think it's possible that he intentionally spammed several shitty enormous posts in a row to hide my combined and complete case against JayBrundage from the players who have just woken up. In order to combat this literal smokescreen I am going to quote myself and thereby reproduce the arguments that I posted a mere 10 posts ago but are impossible to find due to BKEXE's feigned incompetence.
So, I'm off to my final, and that's gonna keep me tied up for some time. As you can see, I faced off with JB and that is a lot of posts, so I'm gonna link to my important analysis/evidence posts for my case against JB. As the pressure has increased on him, he has lied and scumslipped quite a bit. I've assembled these links and quotes here so that it's easy to find. to prove I'm not taking stuff out of context, all the links are included so you can click through and see the truth for yourself. Open the spoilers to see the posts. My complete Case on JB being scum The original case, from last night: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=26#514+ Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi!  There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked  Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it. My thoughts on the BByte lynch and my response to JB's criticism: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#594+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam. My case for JB in the morning. I vote for him in this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#602+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:My Original Case for JB: + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me. I never said I think you're scum. I had you on a list of minor scum reads-- I find your action to be vaguely scummy. I didn't say I think you're scum . If I thought your were scum, I'd be coming after you with all the force in the heavens, and you would know exact;u wju-- I'm calling to lynch BByte because I don't have any solid scumreads. That being said, asking "why do you have a vague scumread on me" is a fair question, so I'm going to assume you asked that instead. Here's my analysis. The case for jaybrundage being vaguely scummyShow nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy. However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town. Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it? Initial post in favor of Lynch All Liars, hedging about Lynch All Lurkers. Nothing unusual here. However, stating unnecessarily that you're kind of new. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads. On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum. Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information. Headnodding to reasonable posts. Not a contribution, but not scummy. Just sort of passive. Whether is is scummy passivity or a townie who happens to agree with other townies is a matter of context. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Every time i post something there's a bunch of more posts to read lol. guess thats a good thing tho lol Filler post. ._. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town Hedging on BKEXE. This is scummy because, AS JB NOTES, BKEXE is being scummy as hell straight up not contributing to the discussion in the thread and just talking generality... then says that he wouldn't call him scum, but wouldn't call him pro town either. A very heavy, very passive hedge. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:15 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:10 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
I said to check for inconsistent statements and you did. The fact that I said to check for mistakes in their inconsistent statements still stands though, as you point out through asking me about my inconsistent comment. I am happy to see you posting more, tho remember when ever you do post try to give your opinions and rereading the thread can prove useful. Worthless comment. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 16:02 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:57 ey215 wrote:
On that note, off to bed. I make not promises on when I'll be on tomorrow, but I will. Oh, question can someone give me an idea of what time Eastern that voting closes? I suck at time conversions. Time Converter MapThis should help you :D I got it bookmarked Providing a useful tool to an ally. this isn't inherently pro or anti town, but it's more posting without analysis, classic JB. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 04:08 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 20:58 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage: The dissapointment of the game this far (strong words, but I think jaybrundage can take it). He is also a veteran, and should now that posting quality stuff is important. As of now there have been alot of filler posts.
Ok you come out and call me a disappointment of the game And that i haven't been posting quality stuff. Thats Bullshit I post what im thinking about. I gave my opinion on lynching policies. I said what i thought about Blazinghands aggressiveness (which i agree with btw) And i gave my read on BKEXE. Who i think could very well be a noobie mafia. On December 05 2011 00:02 Tunkeg wrote:
jaybrundage Scum. "Veteran", posts to little and with to little content, should know that thats anti-town.
For lynch I would go for either jaybrundage or Hassybaby at this point. They need to step up their game or GTFO. But im curious how did i go from not posting quality stuff to being mafia. Seeing that i havent even posted from then to your next post. While i think posting your reads on people is good. You got the wrong person in your cross hairs. Moving on here's more stuff that i noticed Ok so far i see adam has done quite a bit of lurking. He makes a single post at the start of the game.Correcting a mistake someone made about not being able to lynch. Then after ward after someone calls him a bored townie. He jumps on it claiming him self to be a bored townie. And then talks about mentions Blazinghand and Veli so called buddy buddy relationship. Soft claiming them to be mafia. He responds to Tunkegs questions and leaves it at that. Im going to right my reads out in a little bit i just need more time to reread the thread Others have finally caught on to the "JB has literally not contributed anything" fact. He backtracks here and says BKEXE could very well be noobie mafia. Generally being defensive, as you'd expect... and starts focusing on Adam. This could either be scum (trying to deflect attention) or town (people have asked him to analyze, so he does). This defense of scum accusations is barely adequate-- but his major post is coming. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME. Hedges about me. Backtracks on BKEXE. BKEXE has not posted in between his posts, but now he retracts his scumread on BKEXE and claims BKEXE is new town. Tells him to post. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:19 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 08:04 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 06:56 jaybrundage wrote:
And tunkeg i would like your response to my reads heck. I would like everyones feed back. lets get some discussion going On December 05 2011 06:25 jaybrundage wrote:My reads so far Adam4167- Ok so far i have a scum read on adam I you can see in my last post why click He just comes off happy to stay off the radar I dont like how he is going about his game. Just posting ot barely keep up. And in general comes off apathetic. He says hes a bored townie but i think it could be a lurking mafia BByte- He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte . Blazinghand- Blazinghand has been the biggest posting factor atm. Trying to keep people from lurking and in general trying to generate discussion. While it may not be kosher its seems like its working great. People have responded to his prods. My biggest concern is if he was mafia he would be doing a terrific job. I agree that he has been very pro town. But remember guys putting to much trust in someone is always a mistake. So be wary BroodKingEXE- Ok so far i posted a little to nothing. I gave my read on him before. clickerz Well i said previously that he gave off a non pro-town vibe off. I have to disagree now. Rereading his posts I just think hes just new town. Well he can be a bit hard to read i still think hes just a newbie that doesnt know whats scummy and whats townlike. However Regardless We do need to see some posts from you about what you think about other players. If you continue to post like you are you are prolly gonna get lynched. So post your content. If its wrong is not what matters what matters is that you gave your opinion. ElectricBlack- Ok so far ElectricBlack hasnt posted much so far. His last post was pretty good containing content about the lynching policies. His respond to BH and about how he though BH was doing a decent job of making discussion. I would really would like to get your reads on the town tho. He does bring up a good point while BH is prolly town we can completly rule anyone out as scum. Establishing thread presence is a good think for both townies and mafia to do. But again i would like you reads. So far i have a null read ey215- Has posted alot. Mostly because of the arguement between him and and BH. BH called him out for a no content post ey responded by saying BH was making baseless accusations. And it escalated from there. Veli was trying to bring the heat down a bit (good by him). But eventually they decided to just settle things, ey defended himself well. Although to be honest im not sure of his alignment as far. He could be mafia who just did a great job defending himself or a townie who made sure that BH is not going to unchecked. Im going to keep my eye on him. Grackaroni- So far he has posted his reads and gave a good bit of content. Giving his reads and trying to keep everyone on the same page He mentioned that he agrees with hassybaby about not making straight up accusations like Tunkeg did so early in the game when people havent posted alot. Will i dont really agree with this. I think coming out with your town reads is always good. Premature sometimes but good. I do agree with his case on Adam tho so far hes still the scummiest in my book. So far i got a pretty good town read on him. Hassybaby- Ok so Hassybaby got outright accused of mafia with out even posting. Maybe we should go with people guts and just lynch him lol. Well his first post comes out and talks about the LaL policy. He mentions that we should not just lynch a lurker or liar if we have a good read on someone. I think that we all agreed on this. He then talks about how he doesnt like Tunkeg accusations However i mentioned before i dont think It is the wrong thing to do to put your reads out there. I personally like waiting for everyone to post but regardless. He then tells Tunkeg that He is accusing people to much. I still disagree with this. Tunkeg is generating discussion. I honestly think aggressive scum hunting is completely fine. I don't agree with him on his points. Weather he is scum or not is hard to tell i would like his reads before jumping to conclusions Tunkeg- Ok So i have mixed feelings on Tunkeg First off he comes out with his alignment posts and calls out a nonposter and me as being scum. Honeslty i think you should let people post before calling them mafia lol. I do like how he is poking and generating discussion. While i think his biggest disappointment thing was still stupid which he mentions as well. Hassy mentions that he thinks tunkeg is accusing to many people early in the game. But i think that while Tunkeg has said somethings that i dont neccesary agree with i do think its furthing a town agenda. I do think hes coming off protown even if his accusations are not always right. Tunkeg what d Velinath- Well as far i see Veli as being at townie. he talks about the policies a good bit Actually alot but that what the current conversation was about. he kind of gets on BKEXE case. Which i kinda did at the start as well Its really hard to read BKEXE but i still do think hes a townie. And then he gives his reads alot of them were null reads but it is still hard to place alignments on people this early in the game. I do find his amount of posting comforting tho. Makes it a bit easier to disguish his alignment. xsksc- Ok so i like his first post. It pretty much generated the discussion we had on policy lynches and so forth it was good to get out of the way. He mentions posts about breadcrumbs not proving blues which i agree with. talks about policies a good bit. and then tell BH to not be trigger happy. Its kinda funny that everyone gave an opinion on BH. Again aggressive scumhunting is good imo and making people post is great. He got called out on not scum hunting. Which i kinda agree with. he started the conversation about lynching talked about that for a while and then goes and doesnt give much of his reads or even analyzes any posts. I want to see his reads but im leaning scummy xtfftc- Well so far i dont really agree with his policy posts. I do think lynch all liars is a fine policy. He mentions that last minute lynches are a bad thing and i have to agree. he strongly agrees that everyone should post regardless of how we get them to post so he agrees with BH method. He calls out Ey as his strongest mafia read tho. Ill have to go over ey's posts again. As my read was no where near strong on Ey. He also mentions that While people can buddy up for instance BH and Veli that they can often be town and posts an example Syllogism and Sandroba. I do agree that both. So far a null read. I would like to see more of your reads tho Well thats what i got so far plz everyone tell me what yall think this took fucking forever thank god for filters tho. Overall a good post, I agree on most of your reads. But my comments are: Adam: I was also tipping abit against scum on Adam, because of his lurking ways, but he is the only one who have been saying anti-town on Blazinghand, and I would think scum would not go after Blazinghand, but go for more easier targets. ElectricBlack Not sure if I agree on that his post was a really good post, it was an ok first post, and had he followed up then yeah, he could have been able to establish himself as town. But for me it seems abit like he is trying to give out as little information as possible, and that is not good for town. xtfftc He is a very hard read indeed. His posts have been seemingly protown, and he have had good activity. But he have supported me and Blazinghand, and as a scum that might be smart as many have town reads on us. He then have put his red mark on ey215 and a FOS on xsksc. ey215 is one of those who at the time could get framed and bandwagon lynched (based of his feud with Blazinghand) and afterward it would not be as obvious as for instance BroodKingEXE. Xsksc as a town is also a player I would presume scum would get rid off if they had the chance. So I consider xtfftc either a good townie or a great scum. As a final note I would like to say I completely agree of your comment about Blazinghand. There is no such thing as confirmed town! Hm you make a good point about Adam. Going after BH would not be the smartest move because most everyone has a town read on him. (again this does not make him a confirmed townie) But i really dont like how he just accepted your role of bored townie. And also he is trying to discredit people with out much evidence. I see where your coming from. But he just gives me a scummy vibe. I would love to see some more posts from him. And maybe we could confirm if he really is scum or not. Shoot i was hoping ElectricBlack would of posted again by now. I see what your saying here. One real post isnt going to helpful to the town i could see it if he was a mafia just trying ot lay low. Given that i do want to see a lot more from you EB at least some of your reads theres a lot of discussion going in time to throw your voice in. Xtffc is a hard read If hes scum things arent gonna be pretty. I dont know he has posted well tho and gives good reasons out. The thing is also he doesnt seem afraid to post which is good but at the same time a good mafia would be very forward with there opinions as well. Im going to have to go over his posts again see if i can find anything Continues to stay on the Adam Wagon. hedges on EB and xttfc. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:13 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter. Guys i have to say i really dont think BKEXE is mafia. I know when it was my first game and i was just a townie (havent got to play mafia yet) : (. I posted alot of one liners and not with a lot of content heck in my first game i just got on a bandwagon trying to lynch someone before anyone had even posted lol. Later i died because i didnt play well and the mafia were very good. Also while i did try to change my posting for the better people saw that as a sign that my mafia friends had helped me get better. I can honestly say that i can relate to a lot of what BKEXE is saying. Im glad to see his posts change i hope he can can keep improving i honestly dont see a lynch on him being productive. If he makes a scum slip thats different. but remeber you can only take WIFOM so far. Defending BKEXE Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me Hedging on EB. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 03:58 jaybrundage wrote:
OK guys im reading up on the thread now I have to say the main big problem i find thats going on in this town. Not even in related to the mafia is this.
Everyone is getting so heating we have had people get angry and make posts that dont contribute at all to discussion. You can see it so many times in the thread.
First it was the ey and BH arguments where for the most part it was fun but then snide comments where made about one person and a bit of a angry retort back.
Then it was EB who got angry at BH for trying to force him to vote saying him not voting was to spite him. This doesnt help anyone and paints EB in a bad light regardless if hes mafia or not.
And after that xsksc made a call saying he wanted to lynch some people he thought were being retarded.
I even think i might have missed another case of this happening.
Granted everyone came back and admitted that they went over board.
But guys getting angry and letting your emotions guide your responses isn't going to help us. We have to rely on our logic alone and analyze. If your angry or annoyed or pissed just take a second and reread what your typing, and see if your helping the town or hurting it.
Thats what i got to say atm. Ill post some more comments on what else happened in the thread in a bit. Another meaningless post. All situations described end with people coming out better off at the end. So, at the end, JB has been fairly active, had hedged quite a bit, and hasn't said anything of value. Most of hi posts were meaningless and quiet before I made my scumread there. Therefore, he is one of the three people I consider "Vaguely Scummy" Was the case against him particularly strong? No, not really. I'm not voting for him. But there it is. His posts are low-content, high-hedging, almost like he's trying to seem active without BEING active. He misquotes the meaning of breadcrumbs from Mini Mafia X. However, since my calling him out, he's slipped up quite a bit. Here's the evidence that's occurred SINCE I made the scumread: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 04:48 jaybrundage wrote:
I dont mind if you think im scummy. Just make a real case for it.
You too BH if you wanna call me scummy awesome i just want to see some real case not a off hand remark about. How you think i might be scummy. And second off you called me scummy as well as adam and BKEXE i want cases ffs you say you wanna lynch Bbyte for what lurking if you have a scummy case on me plz lets hear it.
Also you say you think that the scum reads from you are for Me adam and BKEXE. Honestly how does that even make sense. I know i defended BKEXE. I honestly dont see him as scum. But i was really hoping he would post more. He posted on adam. Which is great but he just isn't a huge contributing factor this game. Maybe i was wrong about BKEXE but tell me why.
And also If adam is scum why would he push his two "scum buddies" which in your opinion is Me and BKEXE. It does make any sense. If i was scum why the hell would i push adam and then for him to OMGUS me back. It doesn't add up.
Honestly adam i was hoping to see some analyze not a simple OMGUS. I have tried to be active in this game posting my reads. And what i have to say about. Right now i dont agree with the Bytes lynch i think it will end up being a policy lynch and not scum lynch.
I think him voting Veli is him trying to contribute. I think its misguided but i dont think its the right vote we should be making.
Grack i want your opinion.
BKEXE wont be hear till lynch which does not make me happy. I do not like the Bbyte lynch. I do feel like xsksc would be a possiblity. Im going to reread a bit. So right now i think i might go for Xsksc or adam im gonna reread for a bit and decide So, I think he's vaguely scummy, and have vague sumreads on adam and BKEXE. However, his reasoning is completely shitty. The fact of the matter is Mafia will gladly distance themselves from each other in town discussions! Mafia will throw each other under the bus to appear innocent, or work together to make it look like they're not bussing, etc. The fact that Adam is scummy, and so is BKEXE, does NOT Make JB innocent-- that's a logical fallacy the kind of which gets towns buried.Bad arguments. No value. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him. More defending the lurker. lurkers gonna lurk, man. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 06:02 jaybrundage wrote:
xtffc you still havent told me why you think im mafia and again if you think adam is bussing me (really) then why would i try to buss him back its makes no sense comon give me something you too BH get on here and post If he's bussing you, then of course your'e gonna bus him back! it makes it look like you guys have nothing in common. This is another really dumb bussing argument. ._.That, ladies and gentlemen, is the total case for JB. mild scumread. Not huge-- or else i'd vote him. He's made several slipups, but there we have it. THE NEW MATERIAL: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok im going to make a full response to BH but first what do you mean by hedging i thought it might be a mafia term but i looked it up. And got nothing and also adam i was talking about BKEXE being a easy lynch. Can't google hedging?? Meaningless dodge attempt. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:
BH i cant even understand your post what the fuck is hedging lol. Half of your statements are me hedging someone. So plz tell me what it means Mode Dodge attempt. After this I post the definition of hedging. He ignored it. Completely COMPLETELY DODGES. The end of the day is comingup... Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix" LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM AND THIS IS MEANINGLESS. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this scum scum scum
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
This post continued from the previous post due to being over 100,00 characters long.JB is caught in the "EB isn't dead" lie. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=31#608http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#621http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=32#629+ Show Spoiler +On December 07 2011 11:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Well BH time to get to your post.
It's been time for some time, JB. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
Half of my posts you called Hedging. The way you post it i assumed hedging was something a mafia would do.
However as far as i can see it hedging is just stating your opinion with out stating it as a fact or a statement correct?
Well ofc this is the case so far the only person who's alignment i know is me and Bbyte.
Therefore i could state Bbyte is a town or that he was pushing a town agenda but was lurking. I would not have to say i think hes pushing a town agenda. Or it seems to me. Or any of that bullshit.
The reason i use this hedging is because i don't know anything. Everything that i state is speculation, analyze, and my thoughts on a matter.
So in the end everyplace that you said i was hedging was really just me giving my thoughts and opinions on someone. No, where you're hedging you're deliberately not making statements so you can't be accountable to them later. The fact of the matter was, where other people were making analysis and backing up their claims with evidence, you were hedging like a hedgehog. This is typical mafia play, to try to lay low and not stick out the head. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Then you bold where i stated something about breadcrumbs and WBGs play On December 06 2011 09:02 Blazinghand wrote:
What i said
BByte-
He has posted but not alot he seems content to just respond to people. He did comment about breadcrumbs which is true. Its funny because in my game of Mini Mafia X WBG claimed a blue role and because he breadcrumbed it people beleived him. He did post his reads on people which is good. I would like to see more posting from him. My question is what do you think of adam Bbyte
What BH wrote
Continuing to dislike Adam. Says Bbyte is quiet, but crucially talks about WBG's breadcrumbing in mini mafia X, claiming that it caused people to believe him... while crucially leaving out the fact that WBG wasn't actually the jailkeeper in that game. WBG was a mafia member using breadcrumbs to pretend to be the jailkeeper. People bought his story, and so he won as mafia. This is NOT a good example of breadcrumbing, this is showing its crucial limitations! WBG WAS NOT BLUE IN THAT GAME.
Ok for this im going to get Bbyte's quote so we have some context. On December 04 2011 21:58 BByte wrote:Good morning afternoon, nice to get the game started. On policies: Lynch all liars and Lynch all lurkers are useful tools for hunting scum and promoting valid town discussion. Some random points:On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:
Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim, but they can still be useful in analyzing which claimant is the real one. Depending on who the claimants checked, whether any of those checks flipped is still valid information to use. Back to reading the thread, more thoughts later. Also feel free to ask me anything, I'll be happy to discuss stuff that's not already beaten to death. Hm So i said that WBG was roleclaiming and because of his Breadcrumbs people believed him (incorrectly because he did turn out to be mafia). But as Bbyte said Breadcrumbs alone can't confirm a claim So i agree with him. Because WBG used them to his advantage as mafia. Maybe i assumed that people would know about the game. But i dont think i did anything mafia like in this maybe just assuming something? Funny how ambiguously worded that paragraph was, that it could mean one thing or the other depending on if people called you out on it or not. You literally didn't mention, link, or QUOTE that WBG WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME. This seems like a fairly crucial detail in a game full of people who haven't played before. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:Moving onYou criticize my comment that no one should get heated in the thread. Are you honestly calling that post Link Do you think that we should let our emotions guide our conversation. I was using examples but getting heated in this game is not gonna help us. I could call you out as Stupid and being idiotic for lynching a townie. But obviously even if i was pissed it would be dumb to do that. I think that we can both agree that you making a snide remark to ey about playing lol didnt help at all in finding mafia. Don't you agree? I stand by the descision to lynch Bbyte. At the time we made it, it was our best option. I also made up with ey215 very quickly after that. I'm not calling you out because I dislike you personally; I'm calling you out because you're a mafia member and by lynching you we can win this game. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On another note EB you wrote you think im scum. Plz provide a case. Or what you say is useless HAH. HAH HAH HAH. You are fully aware EB is dead and asking him for a case. Literally every townie is fully aware of this. Are you really trying to pretend you don't know the mafia shot him? Nobody's gonna buy that. There's no way you don't know the mafia shot EB. This is another lame attempt at looking town that is obviously not working. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. This is not actually a refutation of my case. QUOTE ME. QUOTE YOURSELF. Show me where you unequivocally make a solid case BEFORE THE VOTING DEADLINE PASSEd. Show me. Evidence. But there is none, right? There's no evidence becuase you're guilty. On December 07 2011 11:59 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Dude you gotta read the thread more.
I still think your hedging comment is bullshit. I gave my opinion on things. I expect to be held fully accountable for what i state. Apparently not because you're dodging. dodging hard. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol if i was fully aware EB was dead why would i ask him for his case on me. I think your just putting pressure on me becauese of this post.
...you would ask him for his case on you so you'd appear town. ._. do you really not understand what i'm saying here? I'm saying you lied. I'm saying you pretended to think EB was alive, because you wanted to appear town. But as it turns out, our heads are not made out of hard candy. Our bodies are not sturdy cardboard cylinders We are not suckers. We don't buy it. Scum. On December 07 2011 12:20 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:17 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 12:04 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 12:02 jaybrundage wrote:
But this question has to be asked if i saw the daypost why the hell would i ask EB a question who is now dead? it makes no sense if i was mafia or town. Its just a stupid thing to do. And makes me look suspicious. Ah, so because it was dumb, you must not be mafia? You can't WIFOM your way out of this. You made a gambit to look town and it backfired, bad. Nobody misses the day post. Not even you. No dude its called Occam's Razor the simplest explanation is the prolly the correct one. I didn't see EB was dead so i asked him a question. What your are doing is WIFOM. But a dumb one imo. Call it what you will i didnt see the day post. simple as that you think it's SIMPLER that you didn't see the day post, THIS DAY POST: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=30#597WITH THE BRIGHT RED PICTURE, THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE WHERE WE VOTE YOU, THE ONE THAT YOU'D LITERALLY HAVE TO SCROLL PAST TO SEE OUR VOTES that's the post you didn't see? For reference, outside observers: This is the post he claims he didn't notice: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:00 Forumite wrote:- Day 2 -![[image loading]](http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2513/communistparty.gif) After class the day before, some of the students felt in the mood for a party, and tagged along with ElectricBlack, one of the older students, back to his part of the dormatory. Drinks were had, and they also performed an impressive experiment involving tequila, oranges and fire. There were no major injuries, and one death. Memories of the evening went foggy after that. At the class several of the students showed the effects of a late night of heavy drinking, but what really caught everyones attention was not the state of those present, but one notable absence. Zona arrived and looked around the classroom. "Isn´t ElectricBlack here yet? Not much we can do about that, we will just have to continue the exercise without him."
ElectricBlack, the Vanilla Townie missed class and was expelled!
Day 2 ends in 48 hours, at 01:00 GMT (+00:00), or 10:00 KST the 9th of December yeah man i miss posts like tat all the time JB caught lying about my stance on BByte http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#702+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:49 Blazinghand wrote:My response to JB re: the BByte lynch Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow.
NO. NO YOU ARE LITERALLY LYING. THAT'S NOT WHAT i CAME BACK AT YOU WITH. ARE YOU SERIOUS.
HERE IS THE REPLY POST I MADE TO YOUR POST. I MADE IT BEFORE I MADE THAT POST. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY YOU ALWAYS LEAVE OUT AND CHERRYPICK MY QUOTES OH WAIT I KNOW WHY ITS BECAUSE YOURE MAFIAShow nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:54 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D Well, I meant that in the sense that we all failed to vote for the right candidate. Nobody is every allowed to abdicate responsibility for their own vote just because other people are voting a certain way, but I do acknowledge that several people probably just voted the way I voted. Don't do that. Read people's analysis and choose the one you like best, and make your own analysis and see if it lines up.
I still stand by the BByte lynch. We lynched a lurker, and I'd do it again in the same situation (no solid scumreads, nobody convinces me of theirs, obvious lurker).I'm still waiting to hear that case on JB, Adam. JB tries to hedge and insinuate and I force him to state his position, which is that I am mafia. I catch him in another inconsistency, but he claims it's sarcasm. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#710http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#716http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#719+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 03:58 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:55 jaybrundage wrote:
LOl question then why didn't you claim responsibility before instead of blaming the town.
You know before i called you out
Look at me im Blazinghand i use fonts and different text to make my point instead of analyze Ah yes, respond to me catching you in a lie with a question. Dodge my question as well. Well, I'll answer your question: when I said "we all failed", believe it or not, "we all" includes me. I was sharing responsibility, not abdicating it. I was fighting sheeping. and I still am. So, answer me. DO YOU THINK I AM MAFIA? Say it straight out. I want you to be accountable for your opinion. On December 08 2011 04:10 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:06 jaybrundage wrote:I think you and Veli are mafia. Lol oh wait im hedging again oppsies + Show Spoiler +VELINATH AND BLAZINGHAND ARE MAFIA There ya go :D BTW that text is kind of big and obnoxious, somehow even moreso than my own. I'd like to point out another classic JB self-contradiction: Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL Is this serious? All JB seems to do is lie, misquote, and hedge. On December 08 2011 04:12 Blazinghand wrote:Caught in yet another inconsistency? Must be sarcasm. In conclusion, JB was somewhat scummy, I voted him, and he has continually responded in a non-town fashion to the pressure. Please consider my analysis and your own and Vote JB to lynch a mafioso.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I like the probabalistic way of looking at things. If your pool is "people who voted for BByte and aren't Blazinghand or Velinath" you know more about it than I do since you know your own alignment. However, entering into this argument you have walked into the territory of WIFOM and expected mafia scrutinized actions. That is where I think you make a mistak e
On December 09 2011 02:06 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 07:49 Grackaroni wrote:
Ey215 has been on every one of your bandwagons so far from Adam----> EB -----> BByte -------> JayBrundage.
@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote. And therefor I don't think both of them are scum. xtfftc have been voting on xsksc and had him as one of those he suspects as scum throughout the game. I don't think both of them are scum. So this leads me to think that the most probable scum pairings of those in on the BByte lynch is: xsksc(Starshard)/Grackorini xsksc (Starshard)/ey215 Grackorini/xtfftc I say we should lynch anyone of these four, it would give us a high probability for actually killing a scum player.
There's a well-known mafia tactic known as "bussing" (from: to throw under the bus) in which two mafia players interact in an adversarial fashion if one of them is in danger, or just in general. For example, if BByte and EB with both mafia and the public opinion was moving to lynch BByte, EB might try to lead the charge, in order to prove himself innocent. However, for this to be believable they'd be aggressive towards each other beforehand so if either of them got in danger, they'd have a justification for bussing. "Oh, I suspected him all a long."
Mafia members, assuming they're not enormously incompetent (see: JB) will do their best to not appear to be working/voting together. You noted that it's probably a 2/1 split since they want to appear like normal voters. It stands to reason that they'd disagree and argue on other things, including each other's alignments, to appear like normal voters.
That being said, this takes nothing away from the probabilistic arguments. I just wouldn't go completely ruling out combinations like Grackaroni/ey215 or xsksc/xtfftc solely on the grounds that they got into an argument or disagreed on some issue.
Also, I'd like to hear your reasoning on the "Velinath is town" read, ideally something besides "Well he agrees with Blazinghand a lot and BH is town". Agreeing with me doesn't make you town. It's possible you've made this case and I just herped and missed it with all the JB interaction that's happened recently, so just quote yourself or link me if that's the case.
Is there a recorded final vote count for previous lynchings (day 1, day 2 etc?)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
EBWOP: xsksc is now Starshard.
Also, Tunkeg and Starshard(aka xsksc) have not voted in this election. You guys have 7 hours left. Your votes are very important, and however you vote you must justify. Granted, assuming nobody changes their votes, you can't stop the JB lynch. But I, and many others, will judge you based on the reasoning behind your vote. So if you do something dumb like say make a post like this:
Herp derp voting JB cause he's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB
or this:
Herp derp voting for random player cause JB's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB
This kind of vote and justification is anti-town. So even though it's currently 7 JB, 1 Veli, 1 ey, cast your vote like whoever you vote is literally gonna get lynched, and justify your shit.
Just a friendly reminder.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:44 Tunkeg wrote:
xsksc (I'll call him that until Starshard actually posts)
Starshard has made two posts so far, despite not voting. Here's his filter:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=160133
On December 07 2011 22:19 Starshard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 19:29 Adam4167 wrote:
Welcome to the party Starshard.
Finally someone around my timezone :> Thank you. Seems like the thread is pretty dead as we share different timezones with the others. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 21:53 Tunkeg wrote:
Just read up on this during lunch, and while just reading through it really fast I have to say that the case you guys are building on jay, and the reasoning behind it is thin. 3 votes allready? Was it the the kill on EB that changed your mind?Many thought my case on xsksc was thin, but this is thinner, and it allready have 3 votes.
Yeah, I think that there really isn't much reasoning behind the call for Jay's lynch, despite that, we still have time and room for discussion to come up with a better list of scum reads, I have not read through the entire thread in detail so I shall reserve my vote for now, once I get back from party and start reading the thread in detail, then I would cast my vote. I hope that others will not jump on the bandwagon without providing any form of in depth analysis. Also, keep in mind that we have 2 inactive players at the moment, it would be great if they get replaced by active individuals or start posting so that we can have more opinions.
Filler; not unreasonable filler, though, since it's basically his first post. He's catching up on reading. He makes the weird statement that he thinks there isn't much reasoning behind the JB lynch while at the same time saying that he hasn't read the thread in detail.
On December 08 2011 11:34 Starshard wrote:Posting some of my own reads. Though it is not very detailed ATM, I hope that it will be enough to get some discussion rolling. Blazinghand + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping. So hurry up.
BH brings the pressure to other players so as to generate contributions and discussion, giving himself a pro town image.On December 04 2011 13:35 Blazinghand wrote:In fact, given that most of those people are European, it's fairly likely they're asleep. I'm going to discuss our other semi-lurkers. ey215 has made a single post so far: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this. He basically says... absolutely nothing. He indicates that we need to use common sense about lies, and that we should lynch scum before lurkers if possible. That's very accurate, ey215, but it's clever how you've managed to say nothing of any import, and this is your sole post, AND you're awake (american). No substance, all fluff. Noob or Mafia? too early to tell. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? Another guy with literally 1 post that says nothing. obvious we shouldn't lynch people for misspeaking. And... of COURSE we need to figure out what to do as a group. We VOTE on the lynch. What do I think? I think you're either absurdly unhelpful or a mafioso doing a bad job of blending in. You're the same as the people who haven't posted yet, because YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING YET.
In this post, he goes after the 1post lurkers and exert pressure on the lurkers, once the lurkers start contributing, he unvote them and goes after the other lurkers.To me, BH feels like a townie, he is being very aggressive against lurkers to start getting content out of them. Without his active contribution during, we might not have enough content to form our reads, he also provides reasonable analysis so I would not consider him a mafia now. Alignment : Town Velinath + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 15:20 Velinath wrote:This is my first game as well (believe it or not), and I'm still contributing (at least, I think so). I feel like we could stand to hear more from you. As jaybrundage said, try to give some opinions. At the moment you're the best scumread I have, and given that, I'd like to hear what you have to say more than what I've heard so far. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:18 ey215 wrote:
However, we need to be careful about what we define lurking as. If it's just they never post, that's easy. If it's they post, but only a couple lines then that's more of an decision to be made through analysis. I'd rather see a few posts a day that are failry well thought out and longer than a bunch of one liners that don't mean anything. I agree, and I think the town will be able to see that especially as we start building cases. Filtering and seeing one-liners is something that raises a red flag in my eyes. He is trying to actively get other newbies to start contributing, this action benefits the town as we would be able to get more content for our reads. He also brings out a good point on the potential mafia lurkers and exert pressure on them so that they would not be able to get away with lurking and posting useless content.
On December 05 2011 23:50 Velinath wrote:Good morning. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:34 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 20:24 xsksc wrote:
What's interesting? I can't make a big post about you right now cause I'm playing SC2, I'm posting quickly inbetween games. I'll do it when I'm finished. Velinath agreed with BH's reasoning that I must be scum because I decided not to vote, He already has shown himself to be willing to be critical of the situation, so I'm not worried about him. Once he realizes my choice of not voting was actually optimal in the situation (as explained when I first started responding to the cases built while I slept), I think he will find something more productive to do. Hi! I never said you were scum. I said you were playing anti-town. There's a key difference - check out ... oh, shoot, I can't remember if it was Kenpachi or Coagulation in 46. One (or both) of them was lurking extremely hardcore, promised analysis "tomorrow" that never got there, posted a few one-liners here and there - and then they flipped town. The players in 46 didn't necessarily assume that they were scum - just not playing to the best interests of the town. I thought the same thing about you here. Now, that said, both the reasoning you posted for why you didn't post and your case on Hassy are quite good. I think if you had just said "Hey, it's 1 am here, I'll post some thougts in the morning" I think that would have been fine - time zones are things we can understand. What's happened has happened, though. ##UnvoteNow, some questions. Tunkeg posted some good content early, and now he's completely disappeared. I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he's gone from being a helpful member to lurking pretty hard for a while now. BByte still hasn't checked in despite both myself and, later, xtfftc mentioning him. I want to hear from him - he's provided minimal content including a very half-assed case on me and some sketchy analysis on ey215. This could just be lazy play but it's starting to worry me, since after voting me (posts doing so comprise almost half of his filter!) he's disappeared. I would be happy to see him lynched, especially since the two people I previously had worries about content generation have stepped up in a big way and helped out. ##Vote: BByteAdam and EB have both stepped up and provided some good analysis (and I was really impressed by EB's case. I'm going to take a closer look at Hassybaby. Calling someone "Serejai" after watching 47, even if not voting them, reeks of OMGUS as I said earlier in the thread, and is an overreaction to light pressure - plus, the bandwagoning is, as noted here in addition to your case, a matter for some concern. Headed to class but I should be able to keep an eye on the thread. He shares the details of an old game and what we could learn from it. He is actively going after anti-town and lurkers to get them to contribute and create a better town atmosphere, although he has some filler post, i feel that he is pro town.Alignment : Town jaybrundage + Show Spoiler +Now lets move on to the poor guy jay who is getting targeted. On December 07 2011 13:10 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol BH you don't get it. I was on page 26 the entire time typing my response.
While the New day post was on page 30 is it really that hard to understand.
I posted what i had to say about your post for me and then looked over the new posts.
If you dont believe me great i said i cant prove it. You act like this was a scum slip. When i just hadn't seen the day post.
Regardless i want to get more input from people before i start typing a case. Adam is still might have my vote but lets see what new information the new day brings It seems like some of the aggression came from jay not keeping up with the new day post. He could lying about it but it might also be true. However , his next post came into my mind + Show Spoiler +On December 08 2011 00:00 jaybrundage wrote:Well so after rereading alot. And going through lots of filters. I have my thoughts on who i think is mafia. Try to have a open mind tho. So at the start of the game BH has been a leading factor for this game. Because of this and his very aggressive playstyle people began to follow him. He the closest you can come to confirmed townie. And because of this people began sheeping to him. One of these people almost to a dot has been Veli. The first person that noticed this trend was Adam. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:
My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target.
You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Who then got voted for by BH first shortly followed by Veli. I did participate on the vote with adam however i gave my own reasoning. Instead of just hoping on the bandwagon. Veli has had filler posts the entire game. following BH lead almost the entire game hear are some examples. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:34 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand, that's a good point. It looks like all of the people who have not posted are probably doing so because of time zones.
As such, I'm dropping my vote (assuming I'm formatting properly!) and will put it back on if one of our four "lurkers" hasn't posted in the next 12-16 hours.
##Unvote: BByte Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi,
this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 08:53 Velinath wrote:
On Adam4167:
So far, two posts. I can see why everyone's suspicious of him - he made a mistake in attacking the most vocal (and, in some people's minds, most pro-town) player. That said, I feel like it could be just defensiveness to BH's style. I'll have to wait for more posts, but for now he's just made my watchlist.
Alot of Veli's post where filler and have been following BH in almost everycase. The other big factor to my case is the mislynch of Bbyte. I do agree that he was lurking a good bit. However what was one of is contribitions. Well lets look back. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:20 BByte wrote:My strongest scum read so far is Velinath. He has been active (very much so actually), but what has he contributed? Some policy discussion, a bit of finger pointing (mostly to spark activity), some fluff. Mostly he has been following other people's ideas, not making his own calls. All of this is something scum could easily do with very little risk.Then there are a couple of posts of light analysis. His "reads post" sums it up best: + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player. xkskc: Leaning town for now. Started our policy discussion. Discussion is good. While he disagrees with BH's methods, I clearly feel like he's playing a townie game right now. Different methodolgy, same goal. To note, he pointed out that there may be mafia in the group leadership., which should be something to keep in mind. Question is whether it's sowing suspicion or genuine pro-town, and I haven't figured that out yet. xtfftc: Null read. He argued against LAL and LALurkers, and I don't wanna go with that. Let's look again once he posts again. (Amend: Looked through his filter to update this post, and I really liked his post here. Still a null read, but this feels positive to me.) ey215: Pointed out some good things. He sees Blazinghand's methods as creating tension within the town, and that's fine - he's entitled to opinion. Like xkskc, he disagrees with methods but seems to be working towards the same goal. Their discussion, while heated, really brought out to me that they both seem very town-aligned, and willing to take positions and defend them. EB: Makes good points. At this point I'm leaning town, simply because he's pro-discussion this early. That said I'd love to see more posts here. Tunkeg: Posted his reads, and is encouraging discussion. I think this is a good thing, and might peg him as one of the influential voices in the town soon. Largely a null read, but I'm starting to lean town. BByte: I'm not totally impressed yet. One post about breadcrumbs (which is more about the game in general than a content post) and one post about a couple of the players. That post was good, and I agree that we shouldn't be intimidated by one person, but I'd like to see more. jaybrundage: Neutral for now, but a lack of content disturbs me. We've still got like 30 hours though. Adam4167: Two posts, neither of which hugely impress me. I liked how he went through and stated a clear opinion on BH's play. While I disagree with his opinion, I think that the way he put things is pro-town in that post. I'd love to see more content here, but so far looks pretty good. Hassybaby: Disagrees with early targets, and I can see why. I think he is overly defensive towards Tunkeg - not an OMGUS vote, but definitely that kind of idea. Not sure what to think, but this early just a null read. Grackaroni: Posted reads, but before that there's a bunch of policy posts. Not that I haven't made a ton of policy posts too, but I'll wait for more content. Null read. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:18 BByte wrote:Okay, back home and (re-)reading the thread. Boy did I pick up a bad day to be AFK. First note: There's a reason a day lasts 48 hours. The first vote on me was made 9 hours ago, roughly 10 hours before the lynch deadline. Second note: I stand by my earlier statement: There are no real lurkers in this game. Instead of voting based on activity, I'd prefer a vote based on the actual content of the posts. For the people who are voting me: In case there are any specific questions that you'd like for me to answer, please post them and I'll give what answers I can. Whether my answers will be enough to convince you to vote someone else is up to you. On December 06 2011 00:31 Velinath wrote:Alright, that's fair Grack - but let's look at BByte. He posts once a few times 17 hours ago, comes back 8 hours ago to post one thing. He states in the thread that he'd post thoughts if needed, but he hasn't done that - a couple sentences here or there. I did however state that I'd be extremely busy with work today. It's only 9 hours since the first vote on me. That's not really enough time to expect someone to be able to answer. On December 06 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:
As you can see, he's got a vote on velinath, and hasn't made a serious argument. Velinath's arguments on his scumlist might have been vague, but since then, velinath has made a liberal outpouring of posts and BByte remains silent. I don't know who's mafia, but I know we need more commitment than that out of our townies, and BByte's soft case and small vote count make it seem like he's hiding something. How exactly is my vote suspicious? I posted my read (which was against pretty much everyone else, is that mafia behavior?) and I perhaps didn't articulate my case as well as I should have, but what am I hiding? For my activity see above and my previous posts. I also find weird from a quick skim through the posts since the last I've read the thread that no one has actually even commented on the actual content of my accusation on Velinath. What do people think about his posting, especially up to the point I accused him? Was / am I sure he's scum? No, but at least my vote was based on a read instead of a non-read. The post I made about the case was perhaps "half-assed" in hindsight. I did spend a lot of time reading and analyzing, but not enough time in forming my case to a coherent post. Also I didn't use nearly enough quotes. And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 09:59 BByte wrote:
Okay, so it seems I'm about to be lynched. Unfortunately I was pretty much MIA today, and wasn't able to respond to the case (or lack thereof) made against me.
I've tried to post honestly and openly. What I've said so far I still think is pro-town. Apart from that, I'd like the town to note two additional people:
Blazinghand: He has been very active and vocal so far. That paints him as town. However, he could have made all the posts nearly as easily if he were scum. To the townies: Please hold him up to the high standard he has presented so far. He still might be scum, just well hidden in plain sight. He was also the second guy to vote for my lynch.
xtfftc: Some scum vibes off him, not enough time to post an actual case. He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli. Also remember the sharade that happened with EB. He was going to post a reason why hassybaby was a lynch candadite and did not want to put his vote in because he did not have time to write it up ( he did not say this at the time) But BH could not stand someone stand up to him. He went out and called him anti town and wanted everyone to vote him. This is one part Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:01 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. On December 05 2011 10:59 ElectricBlack wrote:
No.
Good night. Ladies and gentlemen, case closed. EB's just trying to spite me? Trying to spite THE TOWN? We need him out. He's worse than a lurker. Look how it went for trying to spite BH to spiting the town. EB was not spiting the town he was doing it because BH was being pushy and a bully and he would not stand for it. So after Bbyte mislynch he posts this little gem. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. He tries to take all of the blame off himself. He states its everyones fault the lynch went wrong today AND I QUOTE since WE all failed to capture a majority He REFUSES to take responsibility for HIS mislynch. He even has the audacity to blame the town. and then ends it with most towns mislynch first day. He tries to throw a pitiful bandaid on it And then when i call him out on it. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D He comes back at me with this Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 07 2011 09:49 jaybrundage wrote:On December 07 2011 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
FYI it's also everyone's fault the lynch went the wrong way, since we all failed to capture a majority. I'm just saying that if you have a solid read, you have a BIG responsibility to convince the rest of us. ESPECIALLY if you're right.
Also, most towns mislynch on the first day. Im going to write my post up on what i think went on this night. Sorry for being a bit inactive. I saw BH post about no posting and then was really busy so i didnt get around till now. But BH honestly i find this statement really suspicious. But BH you Succeded to capture the majority. You made the case against Bbyte and your case garnered the majority. It almost seems like your trying to take the chunk of responsibility off your back. I put down what i thought about adam. And said why i didnt like BBytes case. Im going back to make my posts about what else happened tonight. As well as response to your nice post about me. Thank you for that btw :D what the dicks is this
scum scum scum Thats the most cohherent response he has? Really? What the dicks is this Wow. Also as a side note. After BH posts his case on me ofc Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own. The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read. But he follows BH like he always does. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 12:37 Velinath wrote:
Hi Blazing. My best scumread is still Hassybaby right now, as per my comment from the middle of Day 1 (after EB posted that he would post a case the next morning) and later, EB's case that went through the points I made as well as additional points. That said, I'm reluctant to push him as a lynch target until he gets replaced and his replacement shows up - or he comes back from AFK, one of the two. This is my case I would suggest everyone go back and reread with this is mind and look at how Bbyte was Mislynched. Thank you for your time I would be open to vote for either as i think there both scum Veli or BH For now im voting for Veli because thats who BByte wanted to lynch and he ended up getting mislynched. ##Vote Velinath Alignment : Null Thats it for now, I have to go grab some sleep. As a replacement I find it hard to catch up but I will still try to contribute. I'm new so I hope I did ok. Edit: Gl for your finals!
Posts town reads for me and Vel, and a null read for JB, asking for more information.
He edits his post to wish me good luck and gets warned for it, then rides off into the sunset, never to be seen again. So far he hasn't really committed on anything or said much of value. Actually, come to think of it, he's lurking. If I didn't have a scumread on JB I'd be going after him. However, lynching scum > lynching lurkers.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:52 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:50 Blazinghand wrote:EBWOP: xsksc is now Starshard. Also, Tunkeg and Starshard(aka xsksc) have not voted in this election. You guys have 7 hours left. Your votes are very important, and however you vote you must justify. Granted, assuming nobody changes their votes, you can't stop the JB lynch. But I, and many others, will judge you based on the reasoning behind your vote. So if you do something dumb like say make a post like this: Herp derp voting JB cause he's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB or this: Herp derp voting for random player cause JB's gonna get lynched anyways #vote JB This kind of vote and justification is anti-town. So even though it's currently 7 JB, 1 Veli, 1 ey, cast your vote like whoever you vote is literally gonna get lynched, and justify your shit. Just a friendly reminder. I will vote, don't worry. I want to see if any of the cases on one of the four I mentioned in my post before is going to get pushed. But I don't see me voting for jaybrundage, I am not sold on his case. Only reason I will be voting for him is if it looks like it will be a close race between two candidates, and I read the other candidate as more town.
Oh that's fine. I don't care how you vote (I mean, I do, I want you to vote JB, but in that paragraph I'm talking in general), I'm just hoping that you justify your vote. Anyone who has voted without sufficiently justifying it (velinath?) will face scrutiny from me tonight.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 03:53 xtfftc wrote:
I like parts of this post - especially the xsksc+EY bit, although I would have to seriously consider one of them being town if Jay and BKE are both red - but focusing exclussively on voting patterns is dangerous.
Just as a note, if both JB and BKEXE are red, it's literally impossible for both xsksc and EY to be red, since there are 3 mafia in this game. I think you'd have to literally admit that one of the two of them is town if both JB and BKEXE are red. A nitpick! Yes! A nitpick but an important one since if we're going to think about who's where, etc, you gotta remember there are three mafia.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
The two players I'm most suspicious of are BKE and and xskxc aka Starshard. The problem is, Starshard has gone lurker on us. if he doesn't vote, he may be modkilled for inactivity. I don't have a good read on EY.
Given that EY and xsksc is on both your lists, if you could take a look at them that would be great. I'd stick to EY though just because STarshard/xsksc might get replaced by yet another player and hasn't made many contributions recently.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
By the way, Tunkeg, who are you going to vote for?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well.
Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB.
Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711
On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough.
Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging.
A page later:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724
On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay.
This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum)
Finally, talking to ey215
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729
On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day.
It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing.
Where do you stand?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
There are still 5 hours left to the voting deadline. I hope to hear XTF's stance on JB.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 04:53 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:33 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well. Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB. Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
My Original Case for JB: On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
THE NEW MATERIAL: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging. A page later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum) Finally, talking to ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing. Where do you stand? I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE)
So, you consider Jay more likely to be scum than not, or more likely to be sum than someone in particular? Just more likely than Adam?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Tunkeg i would like your input on my case against Veli and BH In closing I have a question to Velinath and Blazinghand: You two led the lynch on BByte, now you are leading the lynch on jaybrundage. If this is also a misslynch can you see how this will lead the rest of us to be suspicious towards you? Is your reads on jaybrundage strong enough that you are willing to put your head on the block for it? If not, do you think it is fair that you two are tunneling so hard on him?
I know I've already responded to this but I thought I'd just add something: In the immeasurably unlikely event that JB somehow flips town, I would characterize it as "profoundly unwise" to lynch me with that as the sole reason, simply because after Night 2 we'll be down to 9 players-- 6 town, 3 mafia-- and if we waste day 3 killing me, by day 4 it will be 4 town, 3 mafia (unless we have a medic, he lives, and he saves someone somewhere).
I'm repeatedly stressed that people need to think carefully about their JB votes. I personally believe he is obvious scum. But I challenge every person in this game to think for themselves whenever possible. It's players like xtffc, tunkeg, etc, who are willing to sink time into serious analysis of players, who will ultimately win this game. I do a decent job of producing evidence and pressuring people, but this is just one part of the equation. If people want to just vote with me, so be it-- I will hunt down and kill every mafia member personally on the strength of my own analysis should that be required.
But I also want everyone who votes to justify their vote and explain their reasoning as much as possible before the deadline. I'd personally appreciate it if everyone who didn't vote for JB also justified why they're NOT convinced by their case on JB (again, before the deadline). The reason I say this is that the mafia have an enormously difficult time doing this, since they know whether or not any individual player is town, and asking for analysis and justification like this with every vote puts a lot of pressure on them and gives them opportunities to be human, and make mistakes.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:10 xtfftc wrote:
Looking at him as an individual, he is one of the three scummiest (along with EY and xsk), so I consider him more likely to be mafia than not. Looking at him in the context of the potential mafia teams I see, I find his team (Jay, BKE, and one of xsk/EY) more likely than the alternative (xsk/EY/Adam).
I see. So you think he's solidly scummy, and you have some potential teams you think he is a part of. However, you consider ey215 to be scummier, which is why your vote is on ey215. Is this an accurate representation of your views?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it.
You mention there are some non-covered bits. Are those non-covered bits covered in this quote? Any particular bits you want to add? I understand that I'm badgering but you happen to be around and it's always good to get people's positions nailed down.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 05:45 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:47 Tunkeg wrote:On December 09 2011 04:42 Velinath wrote:
Hi!
I'm not sure if it's really eneded, but I'll justify my vote on jaybrundage now - as I've said before, the suspicions from his posting style after the Night 1 post gave me cause for concern, and coupled with the previous cases on him I felt that he was a better lynch target for today especially given his tendency to be vocal (unlike the largely lurking hassybaby, who was much less likely to misdirect the town). Following my vote, JB scumslipped quite hard against both myself and Blazinghand, and outright lied to try and distract everyone from the evidence against him, thus solidifying my opinion of him as scum.
I would also like to point to something that I believe Tunkeg pointed out recently, that jaybrundage and BKEXE (another of my current scum suspects) have been defending each other all game. It wasn't me it was Adam: On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote:
And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: HereHereHereHereHereBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. Thanks Tunk, been a bit in and out and hadn't had time to find the post.
So what do you think of BKEXE's largely illegible posts? I initially believed that they were a literal figurative smokescreen to push my analysis off of the front page and make it hard for people to find my summary post. However, they're so poorly formatted it's possible he just couldn't find the preview button. Still, I think he was scum trying to literally cover JB.
Good analysis or bad, and why?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Overall this looks like a pretty solid case but I do have a difference of opinion here
On December 09 2011 07:01 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 11:19 ey215 wrote:
While I'm not convinced Blazing didn't push him too hard and thus pushed him away I do notice a couple of times that ElectricBlack has said not to vote for people unless it's going to put pressure on them. Blazing's vote alone may not be enough, but I'm willing to switch mine to apply said pressure.
I'm fine with applying some pressure.
##Unvote: Adam4167
##Vote: ElectricBlack You don't pressure people by telling them you're pressuring them. As soon as you say that something is just a pressure vote, you make it obvious that you don't plan to stick with it and thus you make your vote worthless. This is typical non-commital mafia play. Not to mention that EY makes sure to excuse himself from all possible blame before saying whatever he plans to.
I caused enough people to flip out by pressuring them that I'm fairly sure it's effective, even if they know I'll unvote them if they do XYZ. HE DOES seem to be abdicating responsibility for his vote as he makes it, though, and trying to place it on me. I'm going to wait to see JB's flip because 1) I'm very anxious and 2) I want to write some balling posts.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:14 jaybrundage wrote:
Well looks like im about to be lynched.
Sorry i have been a bit inactive recently.
Another mislynch sad state for town
If you're a townie, I swear to god, you are the worst town player ever. The constant lies, the constant evasion, the constant hedging... ._. In fact, if you're mafia you're still a terrible player since the constant hedging and lying gets caught fairly easily. At the very least, assuming you ARE town, you're still alive for another 3 hours, right? Slap down some analysis and thoughts on the various posters here-- when you flip town people won't have any reason to doubt your motivation.
You've got 3 hours left to live.
If you're mafia, you can ignore this post since even if you spend the 3 hours trolling, nobody will care when you flip mafia.
If you're townie, you can still win this game. You still have 3 hours. Make them count.
Go through people's filters, of people you think are town, or scum. Make analysis. Make posts. If you're townie, in 3 hours you won't be able to post any more but in three hours you're a confirmed townie. Do everything you can to out the mafia members and clear the people who are innocent. If you're a DT or Watcher, indicate the results of your investigation right before you get lynched, that way when you flip DT/Watcher we'll know what's up.
If you're town-aligned, there is still much you can do. Please, if you are town-- do everything you can to help town win this game. You've played shitty so far, but use these last 3 hours to redeem yourself.
And if you're mafia, know that I will find the other two, and you will lose this game, and there's nothing more you can do to stop me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 09 2011 07:15 jaybrundage wrote:
Oh and i think grack is town
On December 09 2011 07:17 jaybrundage wrote:
And BH is obvious mafia
Post analysis! You have 3 hours to live! CONVINCE PEOPLE.
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EPT
