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On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer.
As you can see I can take a random quote from your filter and make the same case against you quite easily.
You are saying that Blazinghand is attacking newbies by asking them for their opinions.
You make an argument that it is perfectly fine for you to sheep other people. (which you have done all game long)
He is slapping newbies around and discouraging others from posting - you are saying he is anti-town.
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On December 09 2011 09:24 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:21 Grackaroni wrote:On December 09 2011 09:17 ey215 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:10 Grackaroni wrote:On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt. So you would rather follow BH to the end of the earth? a LOT of people sheeped him day1 which is just too dangerous. People were considering him a confirmed townie and if he was scum the game would be hopeless. BH or you? I take BH. I wasn't pointing out whether you were right or wrong on the sheeping. I was pointing out that there was a groundwork being laid to get him lynched if there is a doctor and they managed to save him (if he's town) tonight. Don't use me against him, if you think he's mafia go make your case. I didn't say one time in that quote that BH was mafia. Is this the only post you have for me "laying out my groundwork to lynch him after I fail to shoot him." BH is amazing at making analysis posts and secured a spot early as the town leader. Naturally people began to sheep him which I felt was dangerous because there are no confirmed towns. Build a real case against me. What you are saying is hypothetical, that my post telling people to make their own opinions and to not sheep BH because there are no confirmed townies is groundwork for lynching him. Real case on you posted above. You saw it, wrote it off and moved on. Not my fault you're choosing to ignore it.
You're right I did see your "real case". You said that I was asking other's opinions in order to incriminate people.
You said that I posted something against you around the same timeframe that xtfftc did.
then you made up some bullshit about me plotting to lynch BH day3.
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On December 09 2011 09:25 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:19 Blazinghand wrote:
Nonononono there's no "taking" anyone. People here will make cases and do their best to support them. It's also possible that Grackaroni and I are both town, you know. There's no following anyone to the end of any earth. Please gentlemen go about your business and form reasoned opinions ._. Don't worry, I know where my vote's going Day 3.
Also I take it from this that you are voting me because we have been arguing
Was there something in my defense that really tipped you off, if so do share.
On December 09 2011 08:17 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 07:45 Grackaroni wrote:On December 09 2011 07:18 ey215 wrote:Ok, I was going to save this for tomorrow as I didn’t think I was going to need it today and was still doing the research, but Tunkeg’s probability lynching forced my hand. For the record, I do think Tunkeg is onto something. I’ll start that by saying that I understand why he left himself out, but it would be wise of the town to remember that he too voted for BByte and needs to be looked at just as strongly as the rest of us. I’m not making that case here, mainly because after reading his stuff I don’t think he’s scum, but some other eyes on it would be nice. The only thing that has me concerned about him at the moment is the way he’s grabbed onto xttfc’s case against me, then managed to put my name twice into his lists on the probability lynches and then mildly pushed BH to look at it deeper, therefore potentially getting a bandwagon rolling. For today, I’m not that worried about it but look in the future how these cases and lynches of townies developed. I have come to believe that the mafia started laying the groundwork for future cases on townies in Day 1 so as not to appear to just be switching from one day to another. At the time that this case started against me, I was looking like I’d be a counter weight to BH and therefore might have some persuasive power around here. It has not turned out that way, but remember the context when this starts. At that point in Day 1, BH and I had our argument, got over it and moved on, then xtfftc comes around and decides that based off of being defensive and to make sure to hammer that point home cherry picks some quotes out of context and uses them six hours later to plant his seeds. + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 21:18 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:20 Velinath wrote:
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread Policy or not, everyone should be doing this. Mafia are bound to slip and they will also be reluctant to talk about their teammates slipping, so this is very pro-town behaviour. If you see something you consider to be a lie, mention it. You might be wrong but it's important anyway. And it will also help differentiate between townies who are hunting for mafia and the mafia players who are trying not to attract attention. (I still think that pushing for heavy policies is pro-mafia though, it takes the pressure away from them by allowing them to follow some simple guidelines) Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Town doesn't benefit from last minute lynches, mafia does. If you see someone suddenly pushing for a lynch near the deadline when there isn't enough time for a proper discussion, it is very likely that this person is mafia. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
Dude, no need to be so defensive. Blazinghand is trying hard to organise the town. I don't agree with some of his ideas but they are stuff to be discussed. There is absolutely no need for a townie to react like you did. Blazing's play so far is great. Then he gives this gem: ey215 is my strongest mafia read for now though... Having to call out someone on scummy behaviour two times just a few hours into a mini game doesn't bode well for that person. If I’m such a strong read, why didn’t you push to lynch me at all Day 1? I put forth the theory that no one responded really latched onto the idea, and you didn’t want to go out of your way to stand out that early. You’ve been setting up this Day 2 attempt at a lynch since yesterday. Also, while this is going on we get Grackaroni coming around and starts by giving this read on me: Ey215: He took a post from blazinghand calling him a lurker and acted very defensively. I believe that this is a trait that would be found among Mafia or Town. (I mean nobody wants to get lynched  ) I think he is someone who I should watch more but he is contributing so he should not be lynched today. Then starts subtlety leading Tunked to me: On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." Tunkeg doesn’t really bite: On December 05 2011 05:30 Tunkeg wrote:On December 05 2011 05:05 Grackaroni wrote:
@Tunkeg: also since you're here. I am curious why you painted Ey215 town in your reads. He is somebody that I am unsure of right now and all you explained is that "his posts so far says town to me. He is balancing out Blazinghand." To be honest I did go abit wild with the coloring. I should perhaps have used more leaning town/leaning scum reads i my post. Anyways the reason I put ey215 as town was the feel I got from his posts. He posts his view about town-environment, he states his view about the risk of bandwagoning and that sort of stuff. All of which I consider pro-town posting. What I didn't incorperate in my analysis when posting the list was the defensive attitude he initially took against Blazinghand. Still my read on him is leaning town So they let it go for the day and don’t really try to get the bandwagon going. Now look what happens today, we get the case against me followed almost immediately by a post by Grackaroni trying to get BH to take a look: On December 08 2011 07:49 Grackaroni wrote:
Ey215 has been on every one of your bandwagons so far from Adam----> EB -----> BByte -------> JayBrundage.
@BH : Why is Ey215 one of your main town reads? I think he is just sheeping your vote. The beauty of those two posts by Grackaroni is that they allow him to steer how other people my look at someone and get them to make the case on me, instead of he having to do it himself. He can let BH get or not get a bandwagon going, and no one remembers the actual post that started him down that road. I believe these two have been working together from the outset and the only side that could coordinate like that is mafia. Now, again I’d like to see xtfftc respond to some accusations about him without just brushing it off as trolling as he did with EB. Since EB was conveniently killed overnight, he wasn’t here to defend himself and xtfftc was let off scot free. Again, killing EB made no sense unless he was on to at least one scum in that list. I currently think it was two, Jay and xtfftc. I know you're asking yourself this townies, "But wait! You can't prove any of this unless you're town and we're not sure that you are!". Yes, I know that's why I expect that if the lynch goes through tonight you'll be able to use some of this on Day 3. So, my scum list: jaybrundage, xtfftc, GrackaroniEnjoy. For reference the first quote you took from me is very old That's why I said it "starts" with it. We're not accountable for what we said on day 1? . Show nested quote +Your mafia team consists of the 1 person that everyone agrees is scum, Xtfftc, who voted and made a case against you. And me, who has been suspicious of you.
You have a bunch of quotes from me asking people questions. I sincerely want to know why players like Tunkeg and BH continually think that you are town.
Upon question Tunkeg's reads seem more inconsistent, his opinion of xsksc changed during a time when xsksc didn't even post. If anyone I was siding more with xsksc than xtfttc, look at Tunkeg/xsksc argument. I was more sure that Tunkeg was suspicious, xttftc voted for xsksc.
From what I understand the basis of your case is that I am asking people questions to make them look more suspicious.
I am simply asking questions to gain more information.
This doesn't go as far as OMGUS, but perhaps you should consider that just because people seem to be against you, does not mean they are scum.
Go out and give your own analysis instead of "asking questions". My case is not that you're against me, but that you and xtfftc are working together and have been from the start. I will grant you that my read on him is stronger than you, but of the people currently alive I think you three are the scum. Nice way of calling it OMGUS while trying not to make it appear you're not. Go refute my points other than, "I'm just asking questions." You'll notice that the other person to actually vote for me is not one I listed as mafia, but you instead and I'm still bothered by how flippantly certain people have been in not using the information we have from last nights killing.
Here you said that your read on xtfftc was stronger than your read on me.
You can't seriously argue that my defending myself has changed your reads that easily.
I think you are tunneling too hard.
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On December 09 2011 08:22 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 03:43 Grackaroni wrote:
THINGS TO CONSIDER
NOBODY IS A CONFIRMED TOWNIE
I've become concerned with BH's presence in this game.
He tells people to vote for Adam for discrediting him ----> people vote for Adam
He tells people to switch to EB for not voting -------> people switch to EB
He tells people to switch to BByte ------> BByte is lynched
He tells people to not talk at night ------> Mine is one of the first posts that's not his.
I voted for 2/3 of these people; I feel like maybe I wouldn't have put my vote on them if BH had not suggested to.
The town, including myself, have started sheeping him and treating him like he is a confirmed town.
The last newbie game was lost because of too much trust in 2 players, 1 of them ended up being scum.
I don't know if it's been different for other people, but the main reason I started believing BH was definitely town was his activity level throughout the game. He seemed to be actively scum hunting at the start accusing people, but in reality at the start of the game all he did was jump on people who didn't post yet because they were busy/didn't know the game had started.
I believe that scum would more likely want to draw less attention to themselves but It's possible that BH is actually just a good player that posts and accuses a lot regardless of his alignment.
I feel like we pushed the "easy" lynches of Adam/BByte and EB (before he started analyzing) This is fine for day1, but come day2 we better be more willing to look thoroughly into the players who have been active and are "contributing". (the chance that scum wouldn't have a single active player goes beyond unlikely...)
My point about BH is this : He has a lot of town cred and has gained a very strong position as a trusted townie and a town leader role. Remember to remain cautious of him and that there are no truly confirmed townies. Everyone should be having their own opinions for the lynch tomorrow, not following BH's.
My last point : ONLY MAFIA KNOW THEIR REASONS FOR KILLING A PLAYER
let me explain, in this hypothetical situation I have been shot by the mafia. When you look through my filter do not use things I said as main parts of analysis because you cannot truly know why they would have killed me.
When you looked through my filter after my hypothetical death, do not use arguments such as:
OMG, HE WAS SUSPICIOUS OF TUNKEG THEREFORE TUNKEG IS MAFIA TRYING TO PROTECT HIMSELF!
HE WAS SIDING WITH XSKSC, THEREFORE XSKSC IS MAFIA TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF MORE TOWN!
BH KILLED HIM BECAUSE HE SAID HE FELT BH WAS GETTING TOO MUCH POWER AND THAT TOWNIES WERE FOLLOWING HIM BLINDLY!
just to be clear, I am not saying that BH is mafia, I'm just saying that he is not a confirmed town and that nobody should follow him blindly. IF things continued to go the same way as they went day1 and BH was mafia, there would be no hope for town to win.
By the way BH, if they manage to get enough votes flipped onto me to lynch me today then I expect them to come after you Day 3. The post above lays the groundwork for it. Not too committal, but planting that seed of doubt.
Also, this kind of post is exactly what you were accusing me of earlier, you said that I was asking people questions to try to make them make cases for me.
You're case on me is shitty and is exactly the same thing that you did here. You take some random quote, make up a hypothetical situation that I am plotting to lynch BH and that I am a threat to him; Perhaps you are hoping that he will build a case on me for you? That way you can continue to sheep his vote as usual 
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On December 09 2011 09:42 Blazinghand wrote:
Grack what's your read on xtfftc?
lol sorry I've been too busy arguing with Ey215, ill look into him now.
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Xtfftc spent a lot of time building the case on Ey215. Before that he has not been doing much scum hunting and posted a lot of things that basically agreed with a lot of people.
The one good thing is that from the start of the game he was showing that he was suspicious of Ey215, so at least his case scum target remained consistent with who he was suspicious of.
His timing is wierd though, he held off on posting the case until it seemed like Jay was completely fucked. If Jay flips scum it is definitely possible that he was trying to divert votes off of Jay, because this was his first agressive case.
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In which case my scum team right now would be :
JB
BKEXE
Xtfftc
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On December 09 2011 09:55 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:51 Adam4167 wrote:On December 09 2011 09:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For anyone who thinks I am mafia, because jay is. Think about it, if I kill off jay I would only have one other teamate left, if you think I am mafia for this reason I would be killed as well. This leaves one mafia member to convince everyone else that they are not mafia. The mafia that you are suspecting me to be in would have to have a player so experienced he could take out 6 other players over the course of three days. How does this make sense? I think you guys backed yourself into this shitty position by being too comfortable on day 1. Your team mate, who has done a much better job of staying hidden thus far, is probably reaming you in the QT for dumping the monumental task of killing 6 townies on his own, with 2 blues (if they live that long) still in the mix. Lets not get ahead of ourselves though. Jay hangs in 20 minutes (tick tock..). Yeah It's pretty clear JB isn't town. If he were, he would have posted his final analysis by now. After he flips scum I'll spend some serious time doing a monster analysis of everyone before the night ends. There's a 1/3rd chance we don't have a doctor, and if that's the case, the mafia know the setup, so I'm gonna get shot. They'll have BKEXE do the shot so the watcher learns nothing. That being said, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we have a doctor.
You have to remember though that there is at least one of a doctor/watcher, either one of them would be targeting you.
I highly doubt that mafia would be willing to attack you because it risks a no-kill or trading a mafia member for you.
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On December 09 2011 09:57 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 09:56 Grackaroni wrote:
His timing is wierd though, he held off on posting the case until it seemed like Jay was completely fucked. If Jay flips scum it is definitely possible that he was trying to divert votes off of Jay, because this was his first agressive case. Was there a particular piece of evidence that he posted his case right after seeing? Or could he have posted it earlier?
I'm just raising the possibility, I didn't look too deeply into it.
Jay was already fucked for today and this was the first serious analysis he has done and he did manage to get a vote on Ey
he was suspicious of Ey since the start of the game and chose now to make the case.
Obviously this would not be the sole reason for a lynch, further analysis must be made.
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On December 08 2011 04:57 xtfftc wrote:
BH and Velinath, I think you should take a step back from Jay. You've made a very extensive case on him and the last few pages have turned into a farce with all the shouting. Unless you come up with something good to add, it might be better if you encourage other people to post their views on the issue or get another discussion going.
Right here he is getting you off of Jay's back. Jay was not doing a good job of defending himself so maybe he thought if he could get people to stop focusing on him and he posted a big case on Ey215 he could change the lynch for the day.
On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough.
He says that he is "okay" with the Jay lynch but never explains why, he also trys to discourage people from voting for Jay by comparing it to the BByte bandwagon. I think there has been a lot of evidence against Jay and people should definitely be voting for him. He promises further analysis on Jay but obviously that will not be coming.
On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day.
Ey215, you were right when you said that your vote triggered his case on you. You should have given more reasoning in your post than that, but that said Xtfftc continues to follow his trend of soft-defending Jay.
On December 09 2011 04:53 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:33 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote:
Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well. Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB. Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
My Original Case for JB: On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
THE NEW MATERIAL: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote:
First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging. A page later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote:
Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:
Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum) Finally, talking to ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing. Where do you stand? I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE)
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I have overlooked Xtfftc, If Jay flips scum I still believe the scum team will be
JB
Xtfftc
BKEXE
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I also just realized that xsksc's replacement has not voted so he will be modkilled.
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You wanted to give your reads during the night in case you died.
Do you believe that xtfttc is mafia?
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I'm sticking with the scumteam I was calling earlier.
BKEXE labeling Ey215 scum now continues to reinforce my belief. (Ey215 wants to lynch xtfftc)
JB
BKEXE.
Xtfftc.
That's just my thoughts, there have been cases made earlier on both of these guys.
Not going to do any analysis tonight though; have to study for a test. See you guys soon! (unless I die )
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THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME! :p
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JB defended BKEXE several times throughout the game. (see Adam's earlier quotes)
BH just showed how BKEXE tried to change the target away from JB's lynch.
Most of BKEXE's defense is simply wifom.
##Vote: BroodKingEXE
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On December 10 2011 17:20 xtfftc wrote:
Morning everyone. I plan to post a lot over the weekend because I have very limited time during workdays. I have put enough time into EY, so I'll be leaving him alone for now unless I find something very convincing. Everything points to BKE being our best lynch today, so I won't dwell too much on why he is mafia. I will, however, analyse his relationships with the other players, because this would help us for next week. Apart from that, I'm not sure what to focus on. I really hope that layabout steps it up because xsk+Starshard have been having a very easy time.
I think we need to come up with some sort of a plan. Just like yesterday with Jay, I don't think that focusing too much on BKE will do us a lot of good. If he's town, he has to do his best to catch mafia, but if he's town, he'll be happy to waste our time like Jay did (BKE, there's two mafia players alive, so you need two cases, not one.). We need to discuss at least two more things:
- do we still want to lynch a lurker if there's no good case (lynching a lurker later in the game is much better than earlier as we have more town reads)?
- if we have a DT, should he investigate the lurkerish players?
These are not for today but for the next few days. If you think there's anything else important to discuss for the late game, don't hesitate to bring it up.
I'm assuming you mean lynching a lurker on the next day because it would not make sense to lynch one over BKEXE.
The problem with lynching lurkers is that it gives the town no information to go off of for future days especially if he flips town.
The DT (if we have one) can choose by himself who to check based on who he thinks is scummy.
If the entire town feels he should check a lurker and the DT follows that advice the mafia may choose to target a lurker. (which is not actually too bad for us since it would remove a null read anyways, but it would make us rely more heavily on our analysis of the active players over the blue roles.
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We need to hear from the replacements.
I realize it's hard to catch up with the thread and all but everyone needs to be actively posting.
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@ BKEXE: also if you are town you should be looking for 2 mafia not just one. Who is most likely to be Ey215's scumbuddy?
If you are town it is important that you get all of your thoughts out before the lynch.
Right now you are exclusively pushing Ey215's case which is fine, but the more information you give us the better for town right?
Please try to format your quotes correctly, it's really hard to follow who is saying what when the quotes are not done right.
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On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors.
I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence.
Well,GG
BroodKingEXE
Sorry BKEXE but this is exactly what scum would do, you know that you're going to be lynched and after I asked you for who you thought Ey215's scumbuddy would be you post this.
A town player would try to give as much information for the town as possible, so that even if it's no longer possible to defend himself from the lynch he could still assist the town and give them more to work off the next day.
A scum player would want to leave the town with as little information possible after they get revealed. If you are scum you are making the right decision to shut up now but if you're town please keep talking.
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On December 11 2011 17:29 xtfftc wrote:*** Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:i need to take some time to try to understand Broodking 's post in the meantime i think that xtfftc: has made some glaring contradictions and that he owes and explanation Grackaroni highlighted this in an earlier post and i think you (xtfftc) need to expalin: I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon.
At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) you explicity state that you think Jay is the most likely to be scum and grack makes this point On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote:
Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. you call his "reasoning" (i see a simple statement of fact) "pure WIFOM" well where is the pure wifom in this? First of, nice to see you being active. Secondly - the answer to your question is in the very post you have quoted. It is pure WIFOM because the logic behind the vote I am accused for can apply to both mafia and town: Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 06:23 xtfftc wrote:
Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. However, how come you quoted just half of my explanation? This is the full one: Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 06:23 xtfftc wrote:
Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia.
Let's also consider me being mafia for the sake of discussing my actions. Vote for Jay and get accused of bandwagonning, or don't and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia? It works both ways. You have cut out my actual argument: it works both ways. *** My point with this was not that you didn't vote for JayBrundage. That's what you are basing your defense off of, you say that you would either be accused of bandwagoning or not voting for the mafia. My point was that you said Jay was most likely to be scum but still didn't vote for him. Town should always vote for who they feel is scum, not voting for scum because your afraid you'll be called out for jumping on a bandwagon is scummy or at the very least sub-par play.
Town's first priority is to lynch mafia. Scum's first priority is to avoid getting caught.
You chose to not vote for scum because you thought it would make you get accused of bandwagoning.
Who cares if you get called out? You've got nothing to hide, right? You can simply explain your reasoning for voting JB.
I don't feel this can be brushed aside so easily as WIFOM. I'm not calling you out for not being on the mafia vote I'm calling you out because you said he was your strongest lead but didn't vote for him. Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote:
I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote:
I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read and yet in the above quote you do not do that To the contrary: this is precisely what I was doing in the above post: pushing my best mafia read. Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:here earlier you didn't
On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote:
Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously? I did post it hours before posting the bit you quoted. Seriously. Now, I could have expanded it a lot but unless you expect me to spend 5-6 hours a day working on my cases, I'll never be able to analyse everything I find in-depth. If this is scummy behaviour, 3/4 of the town are playing much scummier than I am. Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:so you vote for BByte On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
why? "its better than a last minute suprise" you just jump on a bandwagon I did write extensively on why town should not waste their vote and that I was concerned about the lack of resistance there had been to Bbyte's lynch. Plus, we agreed that last minute switches tend to benefit the mafia, so we had to ensure this didn't happen. And anyway, jumping on a bandwagon is another thing that 3/4 of the town is much guiltier than I am of, yet you only attack me for this. Why would you do such a thing? I was pretty much the only one to try to push for a lynch that was based on analysis, yet you target me for "jumping" on a bandwagon? Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote:
Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it. another contradiction it also doesn't make sense that "to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team" could be a reason for a vote Of course it does make sense. We had the whole town sheeping for Day 1 and Day 2, so it is necessary to have proper discussions from now on. And what it is that I am guilty of exactly? Are you suggesting that I was trying to somehow save Jay by refusing to vote for him, even though there were like 10 votes for him a few hours before the deadline?
The quote where you vote for BByte once again connects with my earlier view. You're in favor of jumping on the BByte bandwagon because even though he's not your best scum read it's better than a last second surprise, OK that's fine but then you choose not to vote for Jaybrundage, who you do admit is your best scum read, and the only explanation you've given us so far is you're wifom defense of being accused of jumping on a bandwagon. Why are you afraid of being called out for bandwagoning on Jay but not on BByte? It's possible that you did have a reason for not voting you're greatest scum read. The fact of the matter is that you still haven't explained why you didn't vote for JB, all you've given us so far is the WIFOM "I would have been accused of voting JB as bandwagoning or I would have been accused of not voting scum"
You've shown that you're willing to vote for bandwagons on people you're not sure are mafia but you won't for people you do think are mafia. You're defense is weak, why did you not vote your greatest scum read?
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EPT
