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On December 08 2011 02:00 jaybrundage wrote:
Veli tell me this do you usually follow BH's lead.
Why did you vote for me if you said you best scum read was hassybaby. oh wait BH voted for me no wonder.
If you can honestly say you have not been adhering to most of BH's decisions ill hang my self
I voted for you because you're also a strong scumread for me for reasons stated previously and are confirmed scum to me at this point. You're also the one actively misleading town thus more important to lynch.
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On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:AND THIS IS MEANINGLESS. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS
Lol how did you figure that out.
Me saying Fuck
And i thought there was so much content in that fuck. Lol the more i reread the thread the funnier your case against me looks
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@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now.
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On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now.
Well, if you could. Which youcan't. Which means your last post was more evidence of you being terrible because you're making deals you can't keep.
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ebwop 2 posts ago: "I was the first person to talk about BByte". Derp.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now.
Don't worry man JB will ignore any questions/comments that incriminate him, and will lie and misdirect, because he has no answer for this because, of course, he's scum.
Look, to the people who aren't me, Veli, or JB: read JB's arguments carefully. In my opinion, they're usually deceitful and based on misdirection, dodging questions, and outright lies. I'm going to read over what was posted when I was sleeping and put together a response, but I really think that if you take a look at the way JB has been defending himself and the evidence against him and his general unhelpfulness, and think for yourself, you'll find your way to the truth.
Time to do some more analysis :D
Also, anyone who has analysis on people who aren't JB, please post it (if you already haven't). This is probably the most helpful thing you can do since we want to continue collecting information.
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Velinath,
It does matter that we all suspected EB. Firstly a person acts differently depending on if the are on the offensive, defensive, and neutral. I agree with grack that EB could make a good argument, that is why I was reluctant to put my read up. In my read I explicitly pointed out that EB broke down xsksc. He showed how xsksc's personality could change at the slightest pushback, making me think he is scum. He did it without losing his cool himself showing that he was a very formidable player, and one the mafia would not want to mess with.
The mafia probaly saw this as a threat and that combined with the spite everyone was showing EB made him an easy target. If the majority of people did not like EB would they really feel like his death was a real loss? Definitely not, I feel like the lack of posts about EB proves that. Since everyone felt like EB was going to be an unproductive townie they thought the act was seemingly random, so no one has had the insight to really dig into his death.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 02:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:
The mafia probaly saw this as a threat and that combined with the spite everyone was showing EB made him an easy target. If the majority of people did not like EB would they really feel like his death was a real loss? Definitely not, I feel like the lack of posts about EB proves that. Since everyone felt like EB was going to be an unproductive townie they thought the act was seemingly random, so no one has had the insight to really dig into his death.
Analyzing mafia actions in this manner is a waste of time and I think is the like, primordial initial WIFOM. What if literally every insight you just made about the mafia is inverted, and the mafia is doing this to throw you off? That could actually be the case. I think we're better off analyzing the actions of people who are still alive than leaping through loops of circular logic about the EB kill.
All the EB kill tells us is that he was town. That's all. Maybe the mafia targeted him because we pressured him. Maybe they targeted him because he said JB was scum. Maybe they targeted him because JB WASNT mafia and they want jB and HB to look guilty. Who the hell can say? I personally think they targeted him because he was an unlikely medic heal candidate (assuming, of course, we even have a doctor) but we can't say for sure.
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BH,
I still feel that from now on we do need to include a reason why EB got killed along with our scum posts. I feel like it still has to make sense that the person we chose to lynch tonight had something to gain from EB's death. From your experience do you feel that the mafia had no motive (besides the fact that he was an easy kill?)
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I'm back from work and going through the thread now. I will call things out as they see them because otherwise it will end up being a gigantic wall of text.
This post and the next few are a wtf?! moment. BH, stop spamming the thread like this, even during slower times of the day.
On December 07 2011 05:04 Blazinghand wrote:
All my scumreads were mild, and I don't think we could have increased the probability that we'd lynch a mafia guy in any meaningful fashion by lynching someone different. I don't think anyone was really able to say "this guy here is a mafia" and be justified. We also demonstrated a willingness to lynch lurkers, and I'm sure we will continue to aggressively attack people for lurking in the future. This sets a dangerous precedent for mafia members, who feel pressured to both lurk and now to not lurk.
What if another townie starts lurking? Do we lynch him on day 2? Or do we give lurkers a free pass from now on, allowing the mafia to stay out of the spotlight?
[QUOTE]On December 07 2011 06:30 Velinath wrote:
I must admit I didn't expect people to jump over and start voting BByte as easily as they did. A couple people even said that they had decent scumreads but "because nobody's going to vote for them, I'll just vote for BByte". This is a little bit of a matter for concern. I don't know whether it's just town complacency or actual suspicious behaviour, but either way people need to step up and push their reads.
[spoiler][QUOTE]On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
[/QUOTE]
What are you on about? Thanks for picking just one of my posts on the issue, while ignoring the overall context. I was fighting on my own to lynch someone we had a proper case on for quite some time and only gave up a few hours before the deadline when it became obvious that the rest of you would rather lurk than join in the discussion.
And what makes this post even worse is that later in your analysis you make the same point on xsksc I made after he jumped on the Bbyte wagon.
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EBWOP:
I'm back from work and going through the thread now. I will call things out as they see them because otherwise it will end up being a gigantic wall of text.
This post and the next few are a wtf?! moment. BH, stop spamming the thread like this, even during slower times of the day.
On December 07 2011 05:04 Blazinghand wrote:
All my scumreads were mild, and I don't think we could have increased the probability that we'd lynch a mafia guy in any meaningful fashion by lynching someone different. I don't think anyone was really able to say "this guy here is a mafia" and be justified. We also demonstrated a willingness to lynch lurkers, and I'm sure we will continue to aggressively attack people for lurking in the future. This sets a dangerous precedent for mafia members, who feel pressured to both lurk and now to not lurk.
What if another townie starts lurking? Do we lynch him on day 2? Or do we give lurkers a free pass from now on, allowing the mafia to stay out of the spotlight?
On December 07 2011 06:30 Velinath wrote:I must admit I didn't expect people to jump over and start voting BByte as easily as they did. A couple people even said that they had decent scumreads but "because nobody's going to vote for them, I'll just vote for BByte". This is a little bit of a matter for concern. I don't know whether it's just town complacency or actual suspicious behaviour, but either way people need to step up and push their reads. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote:
I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
What are you on about? Thanks for picking just one of my posts on the issue, while ignoring the overall context. I was fighting on my own to lynch someone we had a proper case on for quite some time and only gave up a few hours before the deadline when it became obvious that the rest of you would rather lurk than join in the discussion.
And what makes this post even worse is that later in your analysis you make the same point on xsksc I made after he jumped on the Bbyte wagon.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:25 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 05:04 Blazinghand wrote:
All my scumreads were mild, and I don't think we could have increased the probability that we'd lynch a mafia guy in any meaningful fashion by lynching someone different. I don't think anyone was really able to say "this guy here is a mafia" and be justified. We also demonstrated a willingness to lynch lurkers, and I'm sure we will continue to aggressively attack people for lurking in the future. This sets a dangerous precedent for mafia members, who feel pressured to both lurk and now to not lurk. What if another townie starts lurking? Do we lynch him on day 2? Or do we give lurkers a free pass from now on, allowing the mafia to stay out of the spotlight?
If another "townie" starts lurking? We don't know whether or not he's a townie.
If another player starts lurking, and we don't have a solid scumread, he's dead. I think this should be obvious; otherwise the mafia will just lurk.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:17 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I still feel that from now on we do need to include a reason why EB got killed along with our scum posts. I feel like it still has to make sense that the person we chose to lynch tonight had something to gain from EB's death. From your experience do you feel that the mafia had no motive (besides the fact that he was an easy kill?)
I strongly disagree. I think that EB was killed, and maybe it was someone who had something to gain, or maybe it was someone who didn't have something to gain, except insofar as trying cast suspicion on other people. Do you really not understand what a waste of time it is to try to analyze it as far as "who had something to gain?"
Look, there are some good things we can learn from the EB death.
1) EB was town
2) the mafia probably killed him because he wasn't doctor protected
3) his death doesn't point the finger at anyone atm
Look, I'm suspicious of JB and HB, both of whom EB thought was scum. But I'm not suspicious of them BECAUSE EB thought they were scum, and maybe they killed him to shut him up. I'm going after JB because of his ACTIONS.
When you start analyzing people based on stuff other than that, you're likely to end up lyching someone for no reason.
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On December 08 2011 01:51 jaybrundage wrote:
Tunkeg i would like your input on my case against Veli and BH
Well, as I stated befored don't think the case on you were all that great and I don't think your case on BH and Velinath is any good either.
IMO the hedging part of the case on you is the one thing the case got, that is something to take into consideration. The rest is pretty much bleh.
You trying to lable Velinath and BH as scum in your post, and at the time I can not agree with that. You make a good point about Velinath and BH beeing like an archon, but it is hard to read to much into that, but something to be aware of for later.
You also make a good point about BH's aggressive play giving him a strong position in the group. And while his play was great in the beginning of day 1 to cause some discussion, his agressive ways now are IMO bad for town. He comes right after you on day 2 (after first writing that adam needed to convice him on you beeing scum), and it have led to a tunneling case on you. If he is a good town he needs to understand the position he have now, and be very careful creating cases out of nothing on people (seeing as the rest of the town follow suit so easily).
In closing I have a question to Velinath and Blazinghand: You two led the lynch on BByte, now you are leading the lynch on jaybrundage. If this is also a misslynch can you see how this will lead the rest of us to be suspicious towards you? Is your reads on jaybrundage strong enough that you are willing to put your head on the block for it? If not, do you think it is fair that you two are tunneling so hard on him?
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On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now.
Its irrelevant stop getting tied up in things that dont matter. But ofc your gonna keep nitpicking because my case makes sense
you and BH were the pushing factor to BBytes mislynch because he saw that you were scum Veli
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now. Its irrelevant stop getting tied up in things that dont matter. But ofc your gonna keep nitpicking because my case makes sense you and BH were the pushing factor to BBytes mislynch because he saw that you were scum Veli
So, just to be clear here: You think that I'm mafia, that Velinath is mafia, and that we lynched BByte because he was an active, contributing townie and we were worried he was going to come after us?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:33 Tunkeg wrote:
In closing I have a question to Velinath and Blazinghand: You two led the lynch on BByte, now you are leading the lynch on jaybrundage. If this is also a misslynch can you see how this will lead the rest of us to be suspicious towards you? Is your reads on jaybrundage strong enough that you are willing to put your head on the block for it? If not, do you think it is fair that you two are tunneling so hard on him?
I will reiterate: I want all other townspeople to think carefully before they vote, and present their analysis on JB and other players. Find me a stronger scumread and I see no need to lynch JB.
That being said, I currently think JB is scum. His actions and defenses get more and more scummy and filled with lies. still working on my overnight analysis post. As it stands, I'm willing to "put my head on the block" for it, as it were.
The onus is on all players to provide solid scumreads. Maybe I'm wrong, and JB is innocent. Probably not; but if you guys can't produce a better target, I'm gonna do everything I can to take this one down.
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Alright tunkeg are you still going to go for xsksc then for mafia?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:35 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 03:33 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 02:12 Velinath wrote:
@jaybrundage Had to move my computer. Answer: YOU'RE NOT LISTENING. I voted BByte before BH did, I was building my case on him before BH did, I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK ABOUT BH. How is that a sheep vote?
You can go ahead and lynch yourself now. Its irrelevant stop getting tied up in things that dont matter. But ofc your gonna keep nitpicking because my case makes sense you and BH were the pushing factor to BBytes mislynch because he saw that you were scum Veli So, just to be clear here: You think that I'm mafia, that Velinath is mafia, and that we lynched BByte because he was an active, contributing townie and we were worried he was going to come after us?
On December 08 2011 03:39 jaybrundage wrote:
Alright tunkeg are you still going to go for xsksc then for mafia?
Answer my question please. Do you think that Veli is mafia, and I'm mafia, and we lynched BByte because he was an active contributing townie and we were worried he was going to come after us?
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On December 08 2011 03:39 jaybrundage wrote:
Alright tunkeg are you still going to go for xsksc then for mafia?
At the moment yes. I see him as the best candidate, but I do not have anything more to go off then my post on him and his BByte vote. So for now I won't be pushing hard for him. I want to see other cases first. He have also been replaced, and I want to see more from his replacement. For now I won't be reading anything into him beeing replaced, but I think in hassybaby's case it could be a big tell on his allignment and is in general bad for the game.
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EPT
