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On December 07 2011 13:58 ey215 wrote:
Ok, my apologies guys. I was under the impression that we didn't have to post/do anything during the night phase unless we were mafia/blue. I choose to study for my final in the morning instead of checking the thread.
I'd like to take the discussion in at least a mildly different direction and ask if we should be acting on the information we got by the mafia offing EB. Frankly, I was a little surprised they didn't go after Blazing unless they thought we'd have a medic and they'd be protecting him.
Also, do they want us lynching one of the three people (if I recall correctly) that EB had focused on or did they get rid of him to shut him up and keep him from persuading us?
I'm personally of the opinion that we should lynch the scummiest of jayb, xtf, or hassey and see where that leads us.
I'm still not completely caught up with the thread but this is my reasoning for EB's death. EB wasn't the most active townie but he did show that he could post a strong case, whether the case on Hassy was true or not.
BH was easily seen as the most trusted townie; It would be foolish for them to kill him because there was definitely a medic or a watcher on him. BH not dying in no way means that he is mafia.
On December 06 2011 10:37 ElectricBlack wrote:
Ignore Blazinghand's advice. It's not the best way to proceed. The mafia has exactly one night kill, and any vanilla townie would be happy to be at the receiving end, so they should post and make the mafia afraid of them during the night. Incidentally, the blue roles should do the same, as to not stand out from the vanilla townies.
This is to be expected, It is very easy for mafia to deflect the day 1 lynch onto an inactive/scummy townie. I hope tomorrow we can resume playing on a more analytical basis. There was no reason to kill this guy over for example Hassybaby.
EB made a quote about blue roles during the night, generally blue's tend to talk more about Blue roles than vanilla townies.
My guess is that the Mafia was simply trying to hunt for blues.
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FUCK!!I just realized that we could have figured out EB was a townie from this post, saving us from lots of trouble.
On December 04 2011 20:38 ElectricBlack wrote:Sup. Here's the things that interested me when I read the thread through initially: Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote:Well, with something like a counter-claim, we have to decide who's telling the truth and who's not, breadcrumbs are useful for this later in the game. If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world  Don't get the wrong idea here blues, we do NOT want you to claim now cause you'll just get shot, it's just a hypothetical situation. Breadcrumbs aren't useful. Nothing about breadcrumbs confirms the person performing them. There is nothing that stops the mafia from having an elaborately thought out claim they've breadcrumbed since day one. Do not attempt to use breadcrumbs to confirm anything. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:13 xsksc wrote:Ok I'm going to clarify for those unsure. Changing your past opinnion about someone or being wrong about something is not gonna get you lynched for lying. A misunderstanding is not a lie. Telling us you got roleblocked or medic saved etc when nobody visited you that night, that's a lie. Making a fake dt claim to try and lynch someone you think is scum, that's a lie. It's ok to be wrong, just don't straight up lie This is exactly what LAL is all about. Do not lie. You are allowed to change your mind. Straight up contradicting yourself is not recommended, but it's not a direct lie either. What is a direct lie is for example what's posted by xsksc, and that shit will get you lynched faster than you can say OMGUS. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 13:17 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker. ##Vote Electricblackhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.So hurry up. What kind of a bullshit vote is this. If you're gonna attack me for not posting, do it in a way that actually has even a slight chance of putting any kind of fear into me. If you explicitly state your pressure targets can get rid of your votes easily, then there is no pressure, and thus no dire need to respond to the situation. Here he says if he is lurking then to do it in a way that would put pressure on him. He was obviously not scared of being lynched a pure townie reaction. Next time you pressure me or anyone else, convince me that you'd be willing to hang me. Only when threatened with death do people actually respond in the way you want them up. Don't include a get out of jail free card in your post. Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:04 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, don't be so trigger-happy.
Day 1 always starts like this, we have nothing to talk about so we create discussions. People aren't posting because there's no meangingful discussion going on. I got some going about policy lynches, we've discussed that to death though. Nobody is "lurking" right now because there is no meaningful discussion going on. Why not? Despite his methods being somewhat flawed, he's doing a helluvalot better job than the rest of town in creating discussion. Only problem with him is that he's not convincing enough in his voting spree. If I was scum I'd actually feel pretty safe ignoring him. However, it seems likely he is town, unless he has a really good scumcoach, because I'm not sure scum would draw all this attention to themselves right out of the gates.
Also he said this quote before saying he was not going to vote.
On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning.
He had already established that he was not going to give details until the morning. BH used this argument against him a little hastily.
QUOTE]On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:
On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for.
He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it.
Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense.[/QUOTE]
This quote also can be named as non useful as people get angry if you do not put down a vote.
In all I feel like we need to have more analysis of the people we are getting scum reads on as a town. I will continue to look over EB's posts to figure out why they killed him. At the moment though I have come up with some hypothetical situations.
1) The mafia is dumb and voted for the player that was rated by the town as the worst townie ever.
2)EB had a read or opinion that the mafia did not like (xtfftc, xsksc, Turnkeg, jay, Velinath) the problem I think here though is that EB's claims were unsubstantiated in the case of jay a player that we already are looking to lynch. He also mentioned following breadcrumbs were a bad idea, so maybe the mafia wants us to follow breadcrumbs.
3)The mafia is just trying to throw us off with this vote. This is the worst case scenario, it means that the mafia felt safe enough to not take out players that they think the town needs to figure them out. This would mean that the majority of our reads are not strong enough or just plain wrong.
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BH's quote got messed up, my comments start at "This quote also"
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BKEXE, how would figuring out EB's alignment before night 1 matter to the town when he got nightkilled by scum? I am confused.
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Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro.
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On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro.
Still Following BH LOL
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On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL
So why'd you vote me then? Also why'd you lie in your case to try and get a townie lynched? Scum.
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On December 08 2011 01:09 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:07 jaybrundage wrote:On December 08 2011 01:04 Velinath wrote:
Oh, and because it seems to be the popular thing to do:
@jaybrundage Come at me, bro. Still Following BH LOL So why'd you vote me then? Also why'd you lie in your case to try and get a townie lynched? Scum.
Oh I see what you're saying. Why am I not following you then? I'm going after my accuser (and good job with that last post dodging my questions from before).
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For those who missed Jay's lies:
And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this.
He MIGHT have pulled off more reads than Hassybaby but that's about it. I didn't tagteam him after that post, the lynch was essentially locked in at that point and I stated that lurking was antitown.
He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I voted BByte before BH did, this is just s straight up lie and he should be lynched for this alone.
The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I defended Adam in an earlier post, check your facts
Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own.
The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read.
"like he always does" - that's why I voted BByte before BH started a wagon on him. that's why I defended Adam when he was getting a bunch of votes. Pathetic.
Lynch the liar.
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On December 07 2011 10:18 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS. THIS ISN'T A REAL ARGUMENT. THIS IS HIM BASICALLY SAYING THAT HE KNOWS BBYTE IS TOWN. This is him setting up to be proven right and be like "lawl i'm town u guyz even though i contribute nothing and dodge like i'm a fucking agent from the matrix" LIKE IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, DON'T POST THEM 1 MINUTE AFTER THE VOT EDEADLINE. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT? THE REASON YOU WOULD WAIT IS THAT YOU DONT WANT TO ACTUALLY STOP THE VOTE BECUASE YOU ARE SUCM This is the principle core of my argument. Jaybrundage, for the most part, presents a vaguely helpful-sounding face but never actually does anything. And this final post, here? This post is a post that could have helped, but he waited until 1 minute after the polls closed. He did it because he wanted BByte dead, but he wanted to LOOK like he wanted to stop it. Think about the motivations behind a post like this. Think carefully, and form your own judgement. Ladies and Gentlemen, there's no way a town player would make this post. No way at all.
This is definitely the best case for why JB is scum.
On December 06 2011 08:22 jaybrundage wrote:
Well looks like Bbyte is going to be the lynch target of today.
Its weird when ever BH sets his sight on someone it seems most everyone follows suit.
While i believe his vote on veli was really out of place and not supported with much evidence i do think that it would be odd for a mafia to just vote someone seemingly pro-town. Without any support.
Im not going to vote for him because i don't think hes mafia.
BH you never gave me any answer why you think im scum please enlighten me.
Here he states that he won't vote for BByte because he doesn't think he's mafia. This post seems like it's meant to make him look pro-town after BByte flips town. He gives no reasons for why he doesn't think BByte is mafia other than a couple of times saying that his case on Veli changed his mind. Frankly his case on Veli did nothing to convince me he was town.
On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this.
Why do you put in "I dont have a good feeling about this" If you are against the vote take a stance and help show people why you think that BByte is town. All you're saying in this post is something to look back at so you can say something like: "Look! I was against lynching this townie."
On December 06 2011 05:46 jaybrundage wrote:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
I know hes been semi lurking but he hasn't even got to see this recent move against him.
On December 06 2011 07:11 jaybrundage wrote:ey are you planning on voting for hassybaby. So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good. But honestly last minute switches always put me at unease. I still plan to stick to adam i would like to see what he has to say about whats going on so far. And EB if you think adam is not a good candidate plz state why this post. Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 05:45 ElectricBlack wrote:
reconsider that, he's the worst candidate. Isn't going to change anything. Put in some content i would like to see more of your thoughts. But besides Hassybaby's case which was actually pretty good. And you arguing with xsksc which granted showed that you can post very well when you want too. Why give me this one liner it's not gonna change anything In the last 2 quotes he does the same thing as before, he posts lines that make it look like he is against the lynch but not actually defending BByte:
I really hopes Bbyte can come in here and defend himself.
So far bbyte is gonna get lynched regardless unless we have a change.I would still like to see his defense. But so far it doesnt look good.
This is the main argument for why JB is scum, when choosing your vote try not to factor in the random points such as JB asking EB's opinion after he was already dead. The logic behind those posts are much more spotty because it's entirely possible that he was writing the post before the death post came.
@JB: I can see the point that you think BH and Veli came after BByte because he was posting a case against Veli, Much like Adam was targeted for thinking BH/Veli were suspicious.
I'd like to see some more reasoning besides the fact that BByte/Adam were the lynch targets. I will look more closely into what you are saying.
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I am going to agree with BH on the fact that jay is scum. Looking back over his posts I realize that you have half filler and the other half stuff like this:
On December 05 2011 12:48 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:58 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 10:50 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:47 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die. I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that. My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for. He said he's comfortable voting for Hassybaby, but he's obviously not-- he didn't take the 2-3 seconds to type in his vote. He's leading us by the nose. He's hiding behind the excuse of sleep to avoid an explanation, which I might buy. But to avoid slapping down a simple vote? No, this isn't normal. this is anti-town and I will not stand for it. Think about it-- if he's town, his actions don't make sense at all. Why not slap down the vote? If he's mafia his actions make perfect sense. Now I'm not gonna vote him until the morning just to spite you. I will vote in my own time when I can explain in detail why and how I came to the conclusion. In addition I still have a few people to read up on and form an opinion on, so I might not even end up voting Hassybaby when it comes to it. You start off with shit like this a little bit of actual analysis. You can see that he changes his opinion halfway through the post. I understand that he does not have a good read on EB, but he should have just stated that he was neutral about him as opposed to leading us around in a circle.Wow talk about missing the shit storm im sorry i wasnt here for that discussion. Well it seems that alot of people are changing there vote to EB. While understand the reason and as far as i can see it its because hes being a dick. Although im not sure if he mafia or town. I really think it would be unbearably stupid to act like this. But at the same time you can use a WIFOM to so that he could be mafia but i dont know. Im hoping it just him being arrogant. I want to see his thoughts on hassybaby and the game in general before switching my vote. And i noticed adam is here. So i want to wait to hear what he says as well. Another one of these roundabout things, first he says that he thinks Velinath is townie, but he never backs it up instead choosing to say Bbyte had a good case on him (without a quote) I also find Bbyte case on Veli interesting. I had a pretty solid town read on him but ill double check his posts. Better safe then sorry. Also i would like your input on the other cases Bbyte and why they dont appeal to you as much And finally you have this. I am not sure if this is a filler or a personality thing, but he compliments someone for posting after a while, but goes on commenting on how he wants to know more. You do not need to put a whole paragraph to get someone to say something, a simple question will to just fine to make you seem unaggressive. Btw xsksc i am glad your posted havent seen you in a while. I noticed what you said about tunkeg as well. I mentioned in my post that he made a point to go from he was disappointed in my posting to calling me scum even tho i never posted in that time as well. Kinda odd. but at the same time i dont see him as scum I think hes more of a townie trying to poke and get some reactions from people. Im curious what you think about xtfffc i dont have much of a read on him as well can you give more more incite on him then what you said. Wait there is more? I am really not sure if this is part of his personality or a filler, but it does not do anything to help the town whatsoever. And Your Spacing bugs' the crap outta me
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i put on my robe and wizard hat.
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On December 08 2011 01:18 Velinath wrote:For those who missed Jay's lies:Show nested quote +And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this. He MIGHT have pulled off more reads than Hassybaby but that's about it. I didn't tagteam him after that post, the lynch was essentially locked in at that point and I stated that lurking was antitown. Show nested quote +He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I voted BByte before BH did, this is just s straight up lie and he should be lynched for this alone. Show nested quote +The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I defended Adam in an earlier post, check your facts Show nested quote +Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own.
The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read. "like he always does" - that's why I voted BByte before BH started a wagon on him. that's why I defended Adam when he was getting a bunch of votes. Pathetic. Lynch the liar.
This is not lynch all liars. Lynch all liars are confirmed liars. People who have roleclaimed and then the role dies are confimed liars. Remember this before going any further, because else all your arguements become useless.
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On December 08 2011 01:30 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 01:18 Velinath wrote:For those who missed Jay's lies:And he gets tagged team by the duo of Veli and BH. He tries to post to defend himself. Tries to show that what he did wasn't scummy. He posted his reads more then some of the people in this thread. After he knows that he is gonna get lynched he posts this. He MIGHT have pulled off more reads than Hassybaby but that's about it. I didn't tagteam him after that post, the lynch was essentially locked in at that point and I stated that lurking was antitown. He posted a case on Veli and was soon voted for by BH and ofc Veli followed like he always does. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I voted BByte before BH did, this is just s straight up lie and he should be lynched for this alone. The reason that adam got off the hook was because he did not continue pursuing BH and Veli.
I defended Adam in an earlier post, check your facts Veli follows like he always does. With no real content of his own.
The funniest part is that he even states im not his strongest scum read. "like he always does" - that's why I voted BByte before BH started a wagon on him. that's why I defended Adam when he was getting a bunch of votes. Pathetic. Lynch the liar. This is not lynch all liars. Lynch all liars are confirmed liars. People who have roleclaimed and then the role dies are confimed liars. Remember this before going any further, because else all your arguements become useless.
Sorry, I overstepped a little. It's not a policy lynch but the fact stands that he lied in his case against me.
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ebwop: and those lies can be proven as such
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Tunkeg i would like your input on my case against Veli and BH
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Velinath,
You need to include the whole quote the context that these quotes are in could be very different from the quote itself
Here is an example:
"All cows are green"
Whole Quotes:
"All cows are green in my imagination stories"
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In response to Grack I wouldn't go so far as defend Bbyte because i did not know for sure he was town.
I did think it was wierd that the only thing he does is goes against Veli a seemingly protown person.
And he got lynched for it. I did not think a mafia would post something like that because Veli was look good atm.
And i was srs i did want Bbyte to defend himself didn't everybody i dont want to see lynches on lurkers that is not fun at all.
I wanted to get content and discussion going on.
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Veli tell me this do you usually follow BH's lead.
Why did you vote for me if you said you best scum read was hassybaby. oh wait BH voted for me no wonder.
If you can honestly say you have not been adhering to most of BH's decisions ill hang my self
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On December 08 2011 01:55 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Velinath,
You need to include the whole quote the context that these quotes are in could be very different from the quote itself
Here is an example:
"All cows are green"
Whole Quotes:
"All cows are green in my imagination stories"
Go read Jay's post and tell me if I left out any context that detracts from my point. I would say that no, I did not, especially coupled with my previous posts on the subject.
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EPT
