EPT##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
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sandroba
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##Vote: Hiro Protagonist | ||
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That also explains why wiggles chose to push suspicion onto errandor/meapak instead of hiro, which would be way easier if his hope was only to avoid being lynched. Hiro had 2 votes at that point, and 2 more people (errandor/prpl) willing to vote for him instead. Instead he goes for MZ which had no votes and only one person (me) slightly suspicious of him. I guess they were trying to go for a no lynch, since 2 of their members were in the chopping block. Wbg had also 2 votes at that point, but those were mainly random votes and nobody had a real case on wbg. Wbg is an influential player, and were he scum, he would have fought the lynch harder and try to push somebody else. As scum he uses pseudo-townie traits of agressiviness and certainty to push the lynch onto other people, but this game we see that wbg wasn't really sure if he was right on his case on hiro (since me/palmar dissagreed with it) or the case on wiggles was better. That seemed to genuinely transpire in his posts. Yeah, he could be playing to especially fool me, but then he would have to worry about the rest of town going after him (meapak on day 2 and now you today). So my conclusion is that wbg would have played this game very differently were he scum with wiggles and I'm going to stick to my guns. | ||
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And why exactly isn't hiro scum? You seemed to think so previously. | ||
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Hiro starts day one very sketchy with the whole "I knew he was trolling" deal, when he stated that it was logical to vote wbg day and that he wasn't trolling. Yet he doesn't vote for wbg. He goes after meapak who is calling him out on useless posting (like "I will take a hard stance on anyone that tries to derail this thread!" or "Let's start this off on the right foot!"). He later says that scum will try to pretend they are contributing without actually adding anything, which is exactly what he is doing at that point. On November 16 2011 08:30 hiro protagonist wrote: Well, If everything I say is obvious, and does not need stating, perhaps I should just stop posting... I dont know, perhaps its because the activity level right now is bad? What else is there to say other than the obvious? How can we analysis if know one is saying anything. Im the current lynch target which is fine, but at least Im talking. So perhaps everyone else could come in and give us some insight please ^_^ Here is some more obvious stuff that does not need to be said: one mafia is almost surly lurking due to the activity in the thread so far. I think its very likely that one of Palmar, Meapak, Wiggles, or Sandroba is scum. Right now Im leaning towards Meapak. He says here he is having a hard time coming up with relevant things to talk about and scum does have a hard time doing analyses on anyone out of the blue because they KNOW they are innocent. The bolded statement is something that shouldn't be obvious to anybody besides mafia, who knows their buddy wiggles is lurking. Anyway he keeps going for meapak out of pure omgus, he posted no real reasons why meapak is scum. On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote: OK, here are my reads so far: 2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target. 4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching. And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why: -Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion. -I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass. -I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it. ##Vote: Wherebugsgo Here are his thoughts on the relevant subjects (the rest was mostly null reads with no comments). He still thinks meapak might be red and votes wbg because of the same reason he refused to vote for him before. Note that now both his and wbg's wagon is picking up pace, so it's convenient to place his vote on wbg. His next post is when wiggles already has 3 votes, he has 2 and I had said I'd be waiting for wiggles response before I vote. At that point he could either support wiggles or mz as those are the lynches being pushed besides his. Now if you are scum at that point and having 2 people voting for you and 3 for your partner what do you do? Even if you both manage to scape the lynch (which is very unlikely at that point), after MZ flips townie you are in deep shit, since a lot of people already suspect you. So he does a miraculous 180 and even admits that MZ was right in thinking he was scum: On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote: Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr: He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh: Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage: Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo: This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player. So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar  Ill be around till slightly before lynch Yes, he suddenly no longer thinks meapak is scum and attacks the person who is going after him! Sometimes you do change your mind and alterate your reads completely, but that normally takes someone flipping something that completely destroys your previous reads. Later errandor attacks him on his connection to wiggles to which he responds: On November 20 2011 08:14 hiro protagonist wrote: yeah, your reads are right. my post saying "would anyone like to lynch someone other than me/wiggles" looks bad, but I was tying to spur some discussion, albeit badly. Wiggles makes a few post subtly referencing me. As well as not bringing me up when I was the major lynch target. I know Im town, so I think He was looking buddy up to me in case he dies, to make me look bad. On November 20 2011 08:32 hiro protagonist wrote: The time he tried to buddy up to me: the time I point out that Wiggles did not discuss me: I thought it was scummy then, and I think he wanted to make me look bad in case he died. that, or he did not want to look like he was to much for a mislynch. Which doesn't make sense, because the time referenced here wiggles was not on the chopping block, so the thought of him getting lynched day 1 prob never crossed his mind. Also he says he thought he was scummy then, but he doesn't state that in his reads, he put him as null. So there you go. Couple all that with the fact that he doesn't give a shit about this or the previous lynch, he popped in late to vote jay who he never mentioned before in any of his posts, you'll see that there is a high possibility of him being the last scum. | ||
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##Vote: Meapak_Ziph | ||
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@WBG Why did you use your role the way you did? | ||
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On November 17 2011 06:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: tl;dr: Wiggles has acted scummy but hiro has acted waay scummier. Day 2 I wanted jay dead and you wanted wbg. You posted a case on him, then dismissed it when jay posted scummy shit. Day 3 you came up with "sandroba, y u alive, you must be scum lololol" and then quickly dismissed it when I pushed hiro. You said you found that my explanation for not being shot was logical, so what exactly is your case on me? The matter of fact is that you are content with lynching whoever is up for the lynch unless it's wiggles day1, which was the only time you tried to fight the lynch. | ||
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Can scum hold off their shot? | ||
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Let me tell you why this is extremelly convinient. He couldn't claim he went for me or meapak at any point besides today because that would limit his options. Also he couldn't have said he jailed jay or hiro at any point, since he would have to confirm these people on previous lynches and not have voted for them. In fact the only possible combination of players wbg could possibly say he jailed are exactly errandor + someone he thought was the least likely to get lynched, in this case prplhz. Couple that with the discussion that TL towns are too trusting and they always take claims at face value, which wbg argued against, you have here many coincidences going on. It seems like he has been setting up this claim for a long time to prove his point. The fact that meapak claimed vanilla, when I was expecting him to counterclaim wbg if he was scum, also bothers me. The likelyhood of there being 2 blues is 1/2 and the likelyhood of both being alive at this point is extremelly slim. The likelyhood of wbg, an inteligent player, using his role like ass is close to null. You did a good job fooling me this game, but in the end you got cocky and wanted to prove your point. ##unvote ##vote: wherebugsgo | ||
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On November 24 2011 22:36 Radfield wrote: If all four players agree to shorten any particular cycle I will oblige. I agree. | ||
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What wouldn't surprise me at all is you planning to pull this stunt to show how towns are wrong on trusting claims. Yes it's poor play if you are scum, but it reflects your proud personality. | ||
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On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote: I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo. People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play). I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me. Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid? | ||
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