Team Melee Mini Mafia - Couples Therapy

On November 02 2011 22:56 kitaman27 wrote:
Introducing Team Kita, featuring redFF.

On November 03 2011 03:16 Katzeleute wrote:
the image of Gollum skipping off into the sunset after everything brought a tear to my eye.

On November 03 2011 08:00 GreYMisT wrote:
We will defiantly have to rely on FOSing a lot more early on in the day, rather than pressure voting like a lot of us normaly do.

One thing that will be interesting this game will be analyzing the behavior of teams. do we judge the 2 players as a unit, looking for scum behavior in both? Or is one player acting scummy enough to vote.

On November 03 2011 08:21 wherebugsgo wrote:


LOL Red saying yes to both.

Remember PYP:I, red? Where consistently a bunch of us kept saying you were scummy as hell, but ON was reasonable? It seems rather funny that you would be willing to only use one half of the two player unit as a basis for finding scum. Had we done that in PYP:I town would've had ample reason to shoot you in the face night 1.

In answer to GreyMist's question, IMO we should consider the behavior of both players, particularly in cases where one player is known to be hard to read. If that person is paired with a relatively easy read, (damn I wish Mig was in this game hahaha) then I think we should lean more toward the person who is easier to read, for obvious reasons.

The two player unit is very good for town. It provides us more information than we would normally have, as there is more behavior and there are more posts to analyze. Or at least, I hope this is how it turns out. If town starts succumbing to inactivity (as is the norm lately) I'll be rather pissed.

On November 03 2011 09:04 hyshes wrote:


This actually does not hinder town in any way. Since only the not-knowing person is actually posting and the other one paraphrasing, town does not lose a townie. You still have to do analysis with your teammate about all the other teams (without talking about own team), so you got all the pieces.
If townie: your team actually plays as regular townie, so no harm
If blue: your team plays as regular townie, so no extra eyes on you
If scum: you play as town the first 2 days, you lose a lot of suspicion because of this.

On November 03 2011 09:06 hyshes wrote:


actually i thought it would be received by cheers because of my insight in this team-game set up.. This is genuine the best way to play this kind of mafia.

On November 03 2011 09:16 wherebugsgo wrote:


Except I'm telling you straight up it's more complicated than that, and you should understand it simply because you and ON were that two headed monstrosity of confusion last game.

All game long I remember talking to people (including Mig, Foolish, Kav) who kept saying, damn Jacuzzisplatt is scummy as hell. It was primarily because of you. I saw what they were seeing, but I didn't believe you two were scum because ON posted very reasonably and I talked to him for quite a bit on IRC.

You, on the other hand, couldn't have been scummier.

I think basing our reads on both players is necessary, but with the caveat that if we have conflicting reads on the two halves we need to take the one that's easier to read into account.

Ex. if an incredibly easy-to-read player A looks scummy while his partner B (who is much harder to read) looks town then we should give more weight to the scum half.

On November 03 2011 09:50 Erandorr wrote:


lol

On November 03 2011 11:08 chaoser wrote:


Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with that. This isn't post-conversation-to-try-to-make-people-trust-you. This is mafia. Let's try NOT using shit like this to "confirm" one another. I thought we already covered this topic in PYPI

On November 03 2011 21:40 GMarshal wrote:
@Kita


Yay! Relevance! Not

On November 04 2011 11:08 wherebugsgo wrote:


lol @ this, kita names 2/3 of the player base as being possible scum and then doesn't explain why he conveniently excludes Forumite+prpl and Greymist+super.

I mean, really, what is your point? Why are prpl+forumite not possible scum? Or Grey+super?

For all we know, you could be scum. This "information" you provide is utterly useless.

On November 04 2011 23:21 GMarshal wrote:
As scum however, his behavior is the exact opposite, he sticks to generalities (using clues to scumhunt is bad, lurking is bad, etc), he generally posts a lot of useless spam, that makes him seem active, yet never actually adds anything to discussion. He occasionally defends townies and if pushed will indicate a single target as "scum" with shoddy reasoning.

So basically what we are looking for with redFF are not indications that he is scum, but rather a lack of indications that he is town. That is, if he is not active and helpful then he is almost guaranteed to be scum. That said, lets look at his filter. Anything jump out at you? Any great analytically posts? Any attempts at finding mafia?

RedFF is playing an anti-town spammy style that is entirely unlike his contributory, transparent, spammy, town style. This somewhat matches his scum play, and is a clear indication that he is obviously not a townie, since he doesn't care what happens to the town.

On November 04 2011 23:38 deconduo wrote:


redFF posting one liners instead of contributing is scummy. You posting one liners and setup fillers without contributing is scummy. You calling out other people to step while doing nothing yourself is scummy. Even this post is another piece of meaningless drivel. Instead of saying 'I think team x and y are town' you try and fluff out the post to make it seem like more content than a one liner. However its still just a one liner.

Vote: Team Red21

On November 05 2011 01:04 GMarshal wrote:

Not really well not from not having contributed at all.

What you *can* do is offer an alternate lynch, with good supporting arguments!

That would go a long way towards remedying the whole "hasn't done anything all game long" argument.

On November 05 2011 01:09 GMarshal wrote:

Because it only came up now, when I have you on the chopping block. Too little too late. Why didn't you share these earlier? The fact that I had to call you scum in a massive post and get two votes on you before you gave anything says you don't really care about the town, only about your own neck.

As far a PYP:I goes, your shared smurf has some decent posts, so I can also truthfully say you contributed there. What you can't do is say "obviously all the bad posts were mine" because that is unverifiable, its impossible to know which posts were yours and which ON's. At worst it has to be ignored, at best it supports my arguments.

On November 05 2011 01:08 Forumite wrote:
I don´t have much time to post. I just want to say that I support GM's case and throwing mine and prplhz's vote to support it. We won´t be here for the lynch, but I think it´s the best place to put that vote right now, so that´s what we have to go by. If something huge comes up before the deadline then I expect there to be enough people online that one vote won´t much matter.

##Unvote
##Vote Team Red21

Also: FoS Nipple, post moar!

On November 05 2011 01:08 Forumite wrote:
I don´t have much time to post. I just want to say that I support GM's case and throwing mine and prplhz's vote to support it. We won´t be here for the lynch, but I think it´s the best place to put that vote right now, so that´s what we have to go by. If something huge comes up before the deadline then I expect there to be enough people online that one vote won´t much matter.

##Unvote
##Vote Team Red21

Also: FoS Nipple, post moar!

On November 05 2011 01:56 GMarshal wrote:

...

content like? The first actual contribution you make is after my accusation. Anyone can verify this with the filter button...

Or are you refering to this OMGUS



or perhaps to



maybe



or



all these *wonderful* contributions, which say NOTHING about anyone around you.

Stop clutching at straws.

On November 05 2011 02:01 GMarshal wrote:

You just claimed, so I'm done accusing you till I reevaluate, however I could easily go through a point how each and every one of your posts says pretty much nothing , so don't push it.

Chaoser, you said you had a case on prplhz, is that forthcoming?

On November 05 2011 02:29 wherebugsgo wrote:



By having a proper scumread.

On November 05 2011 02:59 supersoft wrote:
1. sandroba & Sevryn Deconduo - TEAM SS
FOS: still nothing new: sandorba, advocating the horrible Kuru nolynchplan proves him to be town is WIFOM Sevrym out.

2. Forumite & prplhz - TEAM VIKING
lot of stuff, no content. Still my opinion

3. Radfield & wherebugsgo - TEAM CHEZINU
town: confirmed through wbgs meta//not believing the claim

4. Kurumi & RebirthOfLeGenD - TEAM NIPPLE
minorFOS: both busy, both didnt read the thread. Kuru started the nolynchthing. dont know what to think of that. Wifom

5. Crofty & Gmarshal - TEAM LIQUID
minorFOS: didnt mention teamSS, jumped on teamred27 and forced a claim. looks bad if SS flips red.

7. chaoser & hyshes - TEAM EDWARD
likely town: looks okay, as stated before, chaosers behavior doesnt ring any alarmbells

8. iGrok & Katzeleute Bumatlarge - TEAM SWITZERLAND
minorFOS: nothing new. delivered teamSS

9. redFF & kitaman27 - TEAM RED21
likely town, due claim: I trust this claim as stated before

ah i just wanted to send that to grey, but i guess it's okay if you all read that.

On November 05 2011 01:08 Forumite wrote:
I don´t have much time to post. I just want to say that I support GM's case and throwing mine and prplhz's vote to support it. We won´t be here for the lynch, but I think it´s the best place to put that vote right now, so that´s what we have to go by. If something huge comes up before the deadline then I expect there to be enough people online that one vote won´t much matter.

##Unvote
##Vote Team Red21

Also: FoS Nipple, post moar!

On November 05 2011 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:


my "wut" was in response to this.

Team red21 seems to have a massive identity crisis right now

On November 06 2011 06:59 sandroba wrote:
Honestly I didn't want anyone lynched ytd, especially after you claimed parity cop.

On November 06 2011 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
I think today we need to look at lynching one of edward/SS/nipple.

At least one of those teams is scum, and I think Edward provides the best chance of finding scum there.

@GM, bum thought I was scum, and iGrok thought the sandro team was scum. Other than that there isn't much to go on.

On November 08 2011 06:25 sandroba wrote:
1. I posted an idiotic plan.

On November 08 2011 07:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Chaoser what do you think of team nipple now that SS has flipped town?

On November 08 2011 07:41 GreYMisT wrote:


They are indeed gorgeous.

In all seriousness the more i look into WBG the more torn I get on his play this game. He has certainly been active and agressive, but he does that when he is scum as well as when he is town. All i know is that a town WBG makes damn certain that he has 1 target he is going for and he wants everyone to vote for that one person. In this game he seems to have done that. But if you look deeper he has kinda been pushing a lot of little different things, much like his play in MLP mafia.

Those are my WBG thoughts, I'll have to look over the thread yet again to develope them and more.

On November 08 2011 07:43 GreYMisT wrote:


Amazing, you have found a way, as parity cop, to obtain my role before the nightpost.

seriously though, care to expound upon those 3 words?

On November 04 2011 07:38 GreYMisT wrote:


Likely story Balrog.

Good to have you back though, Do you have some examples you can provide us with about the reasons why we should vote SS?

On November 08 2011 01:15 GreYMisT wrote:
And Decon, Maybe I missed some hidden reasoning somewhere, but why must "Team Chezinu die today." you slammed RoL for coming into the thread to say nothing of consequence, but you yourself have been casually pushing for their lynch from the start. Why?

On November 08 2011 07:24 GreYMisT wrote:
Chaoser what do you think of team nipple now that SS has flipped town?

On November 08 2011 07:15 GreYMisT wrote:


That actually gets you points.

On November 08 2011 07:51 GreYMisT wrote:
how is that wishy washy? Wishy-washy implies that I am repeatedly changing my mind. In that post I stated that WBG is being aggressive, but in and of itself that is not a town tell. What he has been doing is being slightly "jumpy." is that a great read that breaks open the scumteam? no, its not. but its what I have at the moment.

On November 08 2011 07:56 supersoft wrote:


oh lord. we actually were the only team able to present a reasonable alternativelynch with nipplez. stop running against walls. think before posting.

a huge shitload of

"OMGUS WTF SCUM" - posts dont favor a protown atmosphere.

On November 08 2011 08:03 supersoft wrote:
and in addition to that: kita, take care of your buddy. he's completely out of control right now.

now rereading the thread. i'll publish a more detailed portraitlist of every team before the night ends.

@grey: lets talk in irc tomorrow. i'll be home from 9:00-11:00 and 20:00-lynch

On November 08 2011 08:28 redFF wrote:

please epxlain how that was omgus

On November 09 2011 00:14 supersoft wrote:
you wont get us lynched. i am not afraid at all.
i even doubt your claim right now.

On November 09 2011 00:43 supersoft wrote:


i dont think that this plan convinced everyone...
anyway. you check us and we'll talk tomorrow.

i think GM and kurumi are scum. deal with it. i am not.
and wbg is town, too. even if he survives the night.

On November 08 2011 21:35 redFF wrote:
lol

On November 09 2011 01:43 GreYMisT wrote:
Why not? there is no Roleblocker or Framer in this settup

On November 09 2011 01:58 GreYMisT wrote:
GM, any comments on the other"not you" interactions going on at the moment? if you are worried about dying tonight getting your input might be helpful.

On November 09 2011 02:38 GMarshal wrote:

Role that protects people at night. Name is irrelevant. I've checked my role PM all of once, and that was to see, "hey cool, I get to protect people"

I really hope you are a suicidal townie and not scum, I respect your scum play too much to think you would random counterclaim like this.

On November 09 2011 05:19 wherebugsgo wrote:


It's possible but extremely stupid.

It's like saying it's possible you're lying and not the PC. But why the fuck would anyone waste time talking about that?

On November 09 2011 07:15 GreYMisT wrote:
GM=scum 1
WBG and team nipple are tied for my second place.

On November 09 2011 07:36 supersoft wrote:
dont want to deal with you. I want to know the checks because i don't trust you morons anymore.
I told you all game long that chaoser isn't scum.
I wanted to lynch team nipples instead of teamSS.
And you still accuse me? Noone has been more protown than me. If you'd listened to me, we would have had lynches one scumteam already.

Nipples and GM are scum.

kitared derpteam is probably blue, wbg is probably vt with rad is afk. I suspected GM all game long btw.
Now this wifom thing with killing the doc and bla etc. doesnt confince me of his innocence.

On November 09 2011 07:36 supersoft wrote:
dont want to deal with you. I want to know the checks because i don't trust you morons anymore.
I told you all game long that chaoser isn't scum.
I wanted to lynch team nipples instead of teamSS.
And you still accuse me? Noone has been more protown than me. If you'd listened to me, we would have had lynches one scumteam already.

Nipples and GM are scum.

kitared derpteam is probably blue, wbg is probably vt with rad is afk. I suspected GM all game long btw.
Now this wifom thing with killing the doc and bla etc. doesnt confince me of his innocence.

On November 09 2011 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
red don't be stupid, you had like four "scumreads" day 1, and you pushed team SS and team Viking far harder than you pushed GM's team.

You also made an incredibly derp vote on me. Let's stop wasting time and giving GM/nipple the opportunity to reenter the thread. Post your check. All that matters is whether nipple is scum or not.

On November 09 2011 08:43 GreYMisT wrote:


Lets play find the irony!
ive underlined it for you.

In all seriousness though kita there is 0 reason we should not know your checks right now.

On November 09 2011 10:02 GMarshal wrote:


How the fuck do I know who the medic is if he sensibly waits till morning to counterclaim? this would be a retarded gamble

Right, you could have, except if you fail to get the mislynch, by say kita having a red check, then you automatically lose, as I've said. You HAD to shoot one of me and chaoser to avoid that.

On November 09 2011 09:57 wherebugsgo wrote:


You act as if you have no concept of a scum gamble.

Scum gambles, kills the medic, your scumbuddy busses you, and then town is in a tough spot when the DT dies and they have 0 information to go on the last day. It's basically a coinflip for both the townies in that situation.




Once again, why would I shoot you or chaoser when I could shoot nipple/S&G?

Scum only need one mislynch today. If you and chaoser were both town, I could shoot that other townie and then sheep chaoser to victory. He even repeatedly said that he would insta-vote you.

Your logic is terrible and you know it. You need to die.

On November 09 2011 10:05 GMarshal wrote:

It did, but if I could persuade the mafia to hit me, we would win anyway, which meant I had to keep up the pretense of being the medic till the day post. If I got shot then scum could no longer win the game. If anyone else got shot and I could get chaoser to follow my reasoning or you and kita had a successful red check, the game was also basically won.

On November 09 2011 10:09 wherebugsgo wrote:


Stop derping and start reading.

GM insists that if I were scum and he and chaoser were both town then it would've made sense for me to shoot GM or chaoser, except in the case of a role check.

I tell him that's not true since chaoser vowed to insta-vote him today.

Insta-vote from chaoser, a townie, and me being scum=I just tell my scumbuddy to vote with me and I win within five minutes.

Tell me, how does any of what GM is saying make sense?

On November 09 2011 10:13 GreYMisT wrote:
Man if only there was some more information we could use to help us come to a decision, like...checks or something.

On November 09 2011 10:27 GreYMisT wrote:


No, I will not stop until i get the information you are withholding, or until you can give me a valid reason why you aren't giving them out. None of this "I want to see interactions" crap. You can observe interactions after you have given out the checks just as well as before.

You see I learned from LotR. To me you are only confirmed when you are dead. just because you said you were the pairty cop, does not mean you get to play like you control us all. It means you have to make the same analysis that you expect from us.

GM has failed to convince me thus far of his innocence.

On November 09 2011 23:56 GreYMisT wrote:


You really aren't going to tell any of us what you actually think of this situation, are you?

On November 10 2011 04:50 supersoft wrote:
okay lets get this going:

i am town, i think kurumi is scum. if not, the game will end in a few hours, because i give scum the oportunity to hammer him down.

##vote: team nipples

i trust gms medic nightplan and wbg is scum because i am not.

GG

On November 10 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote:
yes. because they wont hammer wbg ;-)

there is no chance they hammer him.
if kuru doesnt get hammered hes scum

On November 10 2011 05:05 supersoft wrote:
its not selfish, its a risk. if kuru is town, scum has to hammer.

On November 10 2011 05:24 supersoft wrote:
you dont discuss with me.

On November 10 2011 05:25 supersoft wrote:
what how can we have a 100% lynch???

explain that to me!!! YOU DONT TALK TO ME!!!!
i wanna know your 100% plan or ill do that myself.

On November 10 2011 05:27 supersoft wrote:
share your 100% plan with me or i'll follow my 90% plan

On November 10 2011 05:27 supersoft wrote:
share your 100% plan with me or i'll follow my 90% plan

On November 10 2011 05:28 supersoft wrote:
from my pov i see a 50/50 lynch between me and wbg with your plan
from my pov i see a 90% plan with kuru

On November 10 2011 05:32 supersoft wrote:


and how is that 100% ?

from my pov it's 50/50

On November 10 2011 05:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Scum isn't hammering because supersoft is one of the scum.

Rofl.

On November 10 2011 06:06 wherebugsgo wrote:


Oh trust me, I bet GM is here.

Super is trying to bait a townie to vote on team nipple. Once that happens GM will hammer and the game is over.

Grey/super are playing good cop bad cop right now.

There is more than enough evidence right now to kill super+grey. If you don't see that then I honestly pity you.

On November 10 2011 06:20 GreYMisT wrote:


Regardless, you must realize kita that this comes down to your team. All I can really do to sway you at the moment is say that I am town. at the start of the day WBG jumped onto my push for you to reveal your checks, but faded off while I stayed fanatical about it. Kurumi's argument about my increase in activity around LYLO is null, because he has done the same, just with overall less prior activity. When a town WBG exists in a game, he makes damn sure everyone is voting for his "target" of the day, or goes on a flipping rampage to make sure that happens. He has not done that this game, but rather has made sure to appear aggressive, while going after a wide range of targets. No where early on does he really try to push people to join his lynch.

Hopefully you come to the right choice, and lynch team chezinu.

On November 10 2011 06:20 wherebugsgo wrote:


once again, scum can't hammer a 1 voted townie when YOU are one half of the scumteam.

All it proves is that scum cannot be GM+me. You're an idiot.

On November 10 2011 06:22 Kurumi wrote:
Guys, I would like to have a break and make myself some kind of supper, maybe even go to bed, are we deciding the lynch right now or tomorrow?

On November 10 2011 06:27 supersoft wrote:
##unvote

##vote team chezinu


obviously its over

On November 10 2011 06:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
also fuck you red

On November 10 2011 06:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
Fuck you kurumi.

On November 10 2011 06:35 GreYMisT wrote:


Nailed

On November 10 2011 06:46 Curu wrote:
Man, I would play HoN again if the new heroes didn't look so damn ridiculously strong.

I want my DotA 2 T_T

On November 10 2011 06:48 Kurumi wrote:
I fold. Who cares about RoL.

On November 10 2011 06:55 wherebugsgo wrote:


cause Kurumi doesn't like playing to his wincon...

On November 10 2011 07:12 Kurumi wrote:
Well, I think this will be again last game in a while because I am tired of being called useless.

On November 10 2011 08:17 GMarshal wrote:

They actually are not notifed, but that was a potential problem in this game too.

Imagine chaoser as a jailkeeper, and kita surviving to day 3. Jailkeeper claims. We lynch scum of off kitas check

jailkeeper roleblocks one of the remaining players, dt checks the other. if anyone dies the person who was rbed is confirmed town. If no one dies, lynch off of the dt check.

And mafiascum towns suck, terribly. Reading over their games made my eyes almost literally bleed, apparently not answering the question "what is your favorite movie" is grounds for being lynched.

On November 10 2011 09:02 Ace wrote:


Same basis. Someone lies about a Roleclaim, the real role dies and is revealed - why are you even discussing anything? Lynch.

There is nothing here that separates Town GM from Scum GM. He can play this card from both alignments, hence you can't even take his excuse of doing it to WIFOM the Mafia seriously. The Town would have lost but it was the correct play. Once again, bad Town play leading to a Town win

On November 10 2011 09:09 Ace wrote:


This isn't a policy lynch. It is a LYLO and someone has been found to be lying about a Role claim. You can't tell if he is Town or Scum because his alibi is acceptable for both alignments so you can't take it at face value. What you do know is that he claimed a role, and the actual REAL role died.

What happened in the other 70 pages that can overturn this scenario?

On November 10 2011 09:51 wherebugsgo wrote:


This.

You're claiming the parity check somehow means I become scum. That's not true, the best information you have going into day 3 with any sort of check all leads to a GM lynch.

Every other lynch is non-optimal and if you repeat this scenario again where I am town and the scumteam is GM+S&G, you choose to lynch me and lose.

Literally the only thing that changes between those two situations is the parities. You just admitted to flipping a coin.

On November 10 2011 09:54 wherebugsgo wrote:


Disagree, because chaoser probably would've counterclaimed anyway.

Even without the rolecop we could've shot chaoser.




This doesn't make any sense either, you even said yourself S&G was scum the night before.

I entered the thread at a terrible time too. I had just come back from class and looked at my phone and went wtf super voted Kurumi.

Had I refrained from posting it might have even turned out better.

On November 10 2011 10:07 Ace wrote:


They are arguing based on the known results of the game. I bet you if you flipped Town they still wouldn't even realize what you and I are talking about.

On November 10 2011 12:21 Ace wrote:
There is only one such thing as a bad claim for Scum: Will I get lynched or lose the game for my team?

If the answer is no, then it is a good claim. I've already explained this earlier in the thread. GM faked a roleclaim as Town and DID NOT GET LYNCHED. He could have done the same as Scum and hey guess what - CRED! Fuck it, it's LYLO - he doesn't even need major cred. He only needs to avoid being lynched. "Hai guys I know that dead medic over there contradicts my story but I have an excuse for why I lied even though it doesn't tell you guys jack shit about me being Town -lolz 4real believe me".

WBG even pointed out that there was nothing in the scenario regarding the check on him that tells you anything about GMs alignment. Literally you could have switched WBG and GM, lynched a Townie and then what? You're really going to make the same argument?

Laughable.

Seriously just ditch this forum and go play somewhere else. Pathetic level mafia games being played by the same pathetic players month after month and people are still falling for the same amateur level shit.

On November 10 2011 13:04 Ace wrote:
There are only at best 8 or 9 people that have ever outplayed me or tricked me (extremely rare) in a game on this forum.

On November 10 2011 13:41 chaoser wrote:


SC analogy? You're D- rank and you just won by going deep six off no scouting. Ace is Bisu.

On November 11 2011 03:59 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

Just for the record, this was your thousandth post.

The thing about claiming is, claiming and going 1 for 1 to any counter claimers generally isn't worth it.
That said, it can be used in LYLO type situations.