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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
However, claiming doesn't automatically make you town. The fact that you even imply this screams agenda to me. There's a 50% chance of there being no PC. Even if there is a PC and you aren't the real one, the real PC wouldn't counterclaim because that would out him to mafia! ??? 1 for 1 trade is fucking good? What shit logic. I expect better from you. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:24 wherebugsgo wrote: Even if there is a PC and you aren't the real one, the real PC wouldn't counterclaim because that would out him to mafia! Wrong. The real PC would 100% claim because they just identified 50% of the scum team. I'm still not sure why you want us to reveal our future checks bugs. We haven't checked anyone yet. This is day 1. Revealing our checks gives additional information to the mafia. They know if shooting a certain person will get them in trouble due to a difference in parity. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
and yes, lol at asking who the cop is checking  Unless there is a counter claim, we're not lynching kita/red. With a 50% chance of the cop being in the game, it's a ballsy claim, and done earlier in the day than a desperate scum move typically would(unless you're iGrok). If you are the Parity Cop, and kita/red are lying, you absolutely need to claim. It is by far the most info a parity cop will net us. That leaves us a whole slew of teams on the table. I think Team Edward is still by far our best bet. Team Switzerland is a good bet at this point as well(Bum&iGrok), but I don't think adding another team to the mix is the best play right now. Likewise Team Nipple. Team SS is best left for another day in my eyes. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:19 supersoft wrote: okay i thought about the possibility that they're scum. they would have planned this very likely right from the beginning as a last hope plan. there would be a 33% chance that there is a real pc. seems to be an okay plan. the only piece that doesnt fit in the puzzle really is the timing. its too early for scum to claim. obviously they could have drawn this out until one hour before the lynch. therefor i tend to believe them. Nah, scum claim well before lynch all the time. Chaoser in XLIV claimed like right after night ended. Kita in LoTR claimed tracker halfway through the day, IIRC. On November 05 2011 02:20 kitaman27 wrote: Are you playing the same game as us bugs? This is day 1....how exactly are we going to breadcrumb our night 1 check? Revealing our checks gives the mafia an indication of who to shoot. How is it relavent to town who we will check?That's not happening. By having a proper scumread. On November 05 2011 02:21 chaoser wrote: WBG, he claimed PC, that means there's a 50% 50% chance he's taking with counterclaims. It'd be very easy to check his claim as the game goes on, why would you be ok with voting for someone that just claimed PC? -_- Yes, IF there is a PC they could counterclaim. That'd be a 1 for 1 trade and it'd be pretty good for town. However, there are reasons why a PC wouldn't counterclaim this as well. (as I stated earlier) All I'm saying is that we shouldn't let kita and red off the hook just because they claimed PC. Kita didn't react in a very townie manner to the way I asked about potential checks. That's suspicious to me. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:24 wherebugsgo wrote: I've mostly ignored all your posts up till this point (short of reading them and laughing at them, mostly) However, claiming doesn't automatically make you town. The fact that you even imply this screams agenda to me. There's a 50% chance of there being no PC. Even if there is a PC and you aren't the real one, the real PC wouldn't counterclaim because that would out him to mafia! Your claim does nothing to establish you as town and anyone who naively decides you are more town because of it is probably not thinking very clearly. Just as context, kita claimed tracker in LoTR to save himself and wasn't able to provide sufficient information about his checks. He claimed he had tracked chaoser but wasn't able to provide who else he had tracked. If you have no potential checks at this point in time, and seeing as it only benefits town by publicizing them, you're probably scum who is gambling by fakeclaiming. hold your breath. the timing of the claim is very reasonable for town and not so much for scum. it's a dead end right now. we have to focus on other teams snd come back to them later. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:25 kitaman27 wrote: Scum absolutely hate to move their vote around multiple times a day. They want to find a lynch to jump on and stick with it. Is that your entire case? Well it's a bit more nuanced then what hyshes posted mostly cause he's new lol so I'll be willing to add in the meat of the post. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Yes, IF there is a PC they could counterclaim. That'd be a 1 for 1 trade and it'd be pretty good for town. However, there are reasons why a PC wouldn't counterclaim this as well. (as I stated earlier) All I'm saying is that we shouldn't let kita and red off the hook just because they claimed PC. Kita didn't react in a very townie manner to the way I asked about potential checks. That's suspicious to me. Goes from being "lawl what a shitty claim, still mafia" to "All I'm saying is we shouldn't let them off the hook." Funny move Mr. tunnel. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
do you know what a parity cop does? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:32 chaoser wrote: Goes from being "lawl what a shitty claim, still mafia" to "All I'm saying is we shouldn't let them off the hook." Funny move Mr. tunnel. Chaoser... On November 05 2011 02:15 wherebugsgo wrote: Now, we have a PC claim and an interesting situation here. I don't like claims. However, I'll hold off for a bit until I can get some basic information from kita and red on this. On November 05 2011 02:29 wherebugsgo wrote: All I'm saying is that we shouldn't let kita and red off the hook just because they claimed PC. Kita didn't react in a very townie manner to the way I asked about potential checks. That's suspicious to me. How has my opinion changed, exactly? If I thought they were a better lynch than you today I would've voted them. But as I said earlier, I'm holding off until we can get more information. For now, I don't think the claim makes them less suspicious. + Show Spoiler + as in we need to keep pressuring them! there! I said it. god you guys are thick | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
yeah, that's why I fucking asked for two checks. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:36 wherebugsgo wrote: Chaoser... How has my opinion changed, exactly? If I thought they were a better lynch than you today I would've voted them. But as I said earlier, I'm holding off until we can get more information. For now, I don't think the claim makes them less suspicious. + Show Spoiler + as in we need to keep pressuring them! there! I said it. god you guys are thick Ah my bad, I misread the beginning of that post as more aggressive than it actually was since you first say "I'm willing to vote for these two teams"=I think they are scum and then at the end it ended up being "However, I'll hold off for a bit until I can get some basic information from kita and red on this."=I am not sure of it Carry on | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Alright, well I just got back from school and haven't read shit all so it might take me a little while to catch up. Until then if there is anything important I should know, feel free to reply. It shouldn't take me more than an hour or two to catch up depending on the spam content. oh look, RebirthofUseless is back | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:39 chaoser wrote: Ah my bad, I misread the beginning of that post as more aggressive than it actually was since you first say "I'm willing to vote for these two teams"=I think they are scum and then at the end it ended up being "However, I'll hold off for a bit until I can get some basic information from kita and red on this."=I am not sure of it Carry on chaoser can you explain why you+hyshes think team viking is scummy? All hyshes said was that they are pushing multiple people for vote. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
 About the claim, how many votes we've had on the Team Red21? 3? Was such "move" needed? I understand that claiming is last resort for both scum and town. I think if we've got a fake claim right here, Parity Cop will get to the truth in two night hopefully. Anyway, assuming the claim is true, what should we do if is Jailor is present? Would locking them be a good decision? With Doctor it's risk-gain thing as always, Mafia might but does not need to hit them. As for Jailor protect, we might avoid getting them killed. The thing is, we're not moving on with any of our powers. No check through PC and no check through offensive jailing, but Mafia got their check and they're one step ahead of us. With this in mind, my opinion about no-lynch has changed. In this situation, we can't give the unnecessary edge to Scum. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On November 05 2011 02:25 kitaman27 wrote: Scum absolutely hate to move their vote around multiple times a day. They want to find a lynch to jump on and stick with it. Is that your entire case? While I will concede the point that mafia generally don't like to move their vote around multiple times a day, I don't concede the point that they don't do it. I've played in multiple games where mafia, especially newer players, have done that on the misconception that they will "blend in" with the rest of the players if they're part of a majority vote. The logic of using "I was wrong in the lynch but so was everyone else that voted for them" as an argument when a player flips town is something that DOES happen. But that's not the main point of the prp/forumite suspicions. Go read over prp/forumite's posts as a good starting point. What has forumite been contributing to the thread? quote: Not agreeing with you here, I don´t think your way will work on those two. (Disagree with GM's plan to let the votes pile up on us) and then at the end: Let´s bring Team Edward into the sunshine, and see if they Burn and/or Sparkle! (This is basically saying lets do that!) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...¤tpage=14#264 He posts a bullshit "analysis" of kurumi's team, bold their team red, never votes for them. Prphlz has since fallen off the face of the thread since accusing us of being mafia, going for easy "lurker" lynch of S and S and then later of Kurumi and RoL. He then posts this which puts the responsibility of scumhunting on others instead of doing it himself. quote: I like GMarshal's post. I'm leaving in an hour or so, maybe kitaman27 or redFF can conjure up something before that. Forumite even posts this: Sure, you can pick this lynch, I´ll pick the next one which shows that only does he NOT care about his previous case against us but that he's ok with lynching whomever. They went after exclusively lurker teams or "easy targets" as I like to call them. They also showed a disregard to what their actual suspicions were, being very cavalier with their vote as well as their own reasoning/cases. Multiple times they posted a case and then were completely fine when their teammate wrote a case about someone else and then voted for that someone else without question. Finally, they decided to rest their vote on a team that they themselves didn't even push for (red21), citing GM's argument as "good" as the only reason for voting for them. It's the "I don't give a damn who gets lynched" attitude that's suspicious to me. | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
I said this before, people got confused, so here's why. This game has hammer voting rules. If we put a player to L-1 and force a blue claim, scum can quickhammer for the win. Trading a Mafia Rolecop for a Jailer would definitely be worth it particularly later in the game, so don't let them. Team SS is scum. I think I know the other scumteam as well, but I'm not saying so publicly. One lynch at a time. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
They went after exclusively lurker teams or "easy targets" as I like to call them. To expand on this point, in a small game like this, especially since it's so active, I very much doubt that mafia will be lurking or even inactive. Those are tactics that mafia teams of 6 use for late game survival when it's Day 8 and there's a sea of lurking/inactive players for town to work through. So for forumite and prp go for those easy lynches of lurkers (their cases against SS and Nipple mainly talk about how they're not contributing much and thus they're scum) and don't actually write any real cases against active people. Notice how prp immediately stopped going after my team. And when they finally do vote for an active team, they says "we're going to sleep/can't post anymore today, we vote for them cause we agree with GM" which not only is an example of them trying to sheep a vote but it's also an example of them having to no longer defend their vote since they're off "sleeping"/"Not being here" | ||
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