|
On October 14 2011 12:53 hiro protagonist wrote:
I would like to nominate the 3 most active and protown people as of right now, and that would be:
Sandroba
Jumbo
Radfield
All three put a lot of effort into organizing town so far. By putting them in public office, We pressure them to keep up there performance. Of the three, I like Sand and Rad the most, Jumbo the least.
chaoser or wiggles dont have a platform, so i see no reason to elect them. They could change my mind, if they give me a reason to.
What's wrong with a platform of killing scum? =O
I'm not voting anyone for stuff they did on day 1 really, besides maybe activity. It's pretty easy for people to talk a lot on Day 1 about mechanics and role picking, because it doesn't really reflect any opinion on any other player. Especially in a game with 3 scum families, I'm sure they came up with different picking plans, some of which could potentially fall in line with what town believed to be optimal. This further obfuscates things, because even plans that look pro-town have the potential to be used to help one scum family's strategy to the detriment of the other two.
If any of those three want my vote for today, then they're going to have to provide reasons for today. Why should I give someone immunity? If they get pardoner, how will they use it? Who will be their day 1 lynch?
To answer these questions myself, I haven't decided who I'm going to lynch if I get voted into office. Not yet, anyways. I'll be willing to take town input, but that will be more of a discussion between me and the rest of town. It's not going to be a vote. It's not going to just be me picking someone. It's going to be me discussing with town, and then we can come up with a candidate we can mostly agree on. Some criteria we may wish to consider or omit in this picking process is activity and queue position. i.e., is it worth it to lynch an active player day 1, or one of the many lurkers? Should we avoid lynching into the top of the list?
If I receive the spot of pardoner, I probably won't use my pardons ever, unless there's something silly like a vote rig or scum politician swinging the vote. It would only be used in a reactionary measure, unless town decides it would be beneficial to use is as a no-lynch. (I think there's scenarios near lylo where this is beneficial. I might need to read up)
I want immunity, because I don't feel like getting shot on night 1 again. As well, when I'm bullet-proof I go on a scum killing rampage across the thread.
Also, I made you a graphic novel. That took a lot of effort.
|
On October 14 2011 13:02 bumatlarge wrote:![[image loading]](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/7663070_6154b87a3a.jpg)
If you're scum, then yes, that is true.
Otherwise, I won't kick you. Unless doing so would get your vote, then I would.
|
On October 14 2011 14:21 syllogism wrote:
Platforms are irrelevant. Plans are irrelevant. What you say you are going to do with the lynch or pardons is irrelevant.
All that matters is denying the positions from scum.
Vote dumb pardoner who will pardon twice and wreck the game for town versus vote in smart pardoner who won't pardon unless absolutely necessary.
Vote in smart mayor who'll use the lynch in a good way versus voting in a dumb mayor who's going to randomly lynch a pro-town player within the top queue spots because he feels like it.
Which seems like a better alternative in each case? Also, how are you going to determine who's scum or not without discussing anything?
|
Syllo, can you address this for me?
(Open the nested Quotes)
On October 14 2011 15:14 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 14:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On October 14 2011 14:21 syllogism wrote:
Platforms are irrelevant. Plans are irrelevant. What you say you are going to do with the lynch or pardons is irrelevant.
All that matters is denying the positions from scum. Vote dumb pardoner who will pardon twice and wreck the game for town versus vote in smart pardoner who won't pardon unless absolutely necessary. Vote in smart mayor who'll use the lynch in a good way versus voting in a dumb mayor who's going to randomly lynch a pro-town player within the top queue spots because he feels like it. Which seems like a better alternative in each case? Also, how are you going to determine who's scum or not without discussing anything? Discussion is good, but in the end platforms are pure fluff, especially in a game with 3 different scum teams. Walls of text detailing your plans and policies say quite little about your alignment, especially if the person in question is someone like Radfield. Furthermore, promises are meaningless if the person being elected isn't town.. Obviously we are never going to elect a "dumb" pardoner or mayor, given the fact how many solid players there are in the game. Anyway, Mig is likely town and everyone should be voting for him. Yes, take my word for it On October 14 2011 22:04 syllogism wrote:
Only sandroba has been talking about 99% probability, so you are twisting our words for your own benefit. I've also not said anything about Sandroba's alignment. Also it's interesting that you made those conclusions without actually being in contact with me in any way (you did add me on skype and admittedly our time zones aren't compatible; PMs are however an option).
I'm not running for mayor, though I certainly would push for my election as well if I could do it at this juncture but the votes aren't there. Thus I'm doing the next best thing; attempting to elect someone who I've the strongest town read of. I think he has a better chance at getting elected, which is mostly why I'm not running myself.
Can you please elaborate on what you think our alignments are? Do you think me and mig are scum buddies and just being extremely daring? You did mention that you think one or both of us is scum and trying to "to ride the coattails of the strong pro-town player into Office". Who is the strong pro-town player then and which one is latching onto him? Mig didn't even want to run and I pushed him into it. You aren't very consistent and coherent with your accusations, which is quite scummy.
I just thought of this now, and didn't notice it before. The bolded parts seem to contradict each other. You say that "All that matters is denying the positions from scum.", so you support Mig in a campaign that he hadn't even announced yet, and don't run for mayor yourself, because "the votes aren't there".
How do you know the votes aren't there, without trying to run? Right now, there's no votes for anybody, really, so that implies that it's very hard to know whether you'll get enough votes to be elected, unless you're some kind of psychic.
So, there's a break-down in the logic. You say the biggest criteria for elections is that the player is town. In mafia, you can only be sure of your own alignment. So, instead of running for mayor/pardoner yourself in order to secure the position for a known town player, you put up Mig as a candidate instead, who you say you believe to be town. But in doing this, you contradict yourself. There's no way to be able to tell that he's town better than your knowledge of your own alignment, so obviously he isn't more likely to be town than yourself. Then, you say you didn't run yourself because the votes aren't there, when the votes aren't there for anybody right now, and there's no way to tell if they would be without trying.
Then add on to it, that you admitted in PM that you didn't even talk to Mig about the game much, but somehow determined his alignment to the extent that you'd be willing to put him in office over yourself.
Your behaviour doesn't make sense from a town perspective, so either there's something fishy going on that we don't know about, or you're scum.
At this point, I feel uncomfortable voting any of Mig/Syllo/San into office. They're too interconnected, and taken together, their stories don't really add up right to me.
|
On October 15 2011 04:53 syllogism wrote:
This "if you are town, you must be running for mayor since you can only know your own alignment" is such an hilariously flawed logic. The only way to elect someone is to get more than 1 vote and that supposedly requires townies voting for townies or we are guaranteed to end up with a scum mayor.
Absurdly bad
Nice way to avoid the questions.
Why vote for mig, based on his towniness, when you didn't even talk to him about the game, and then declare the only reason you aren't running yourself, is because you don't think you'd get the votes, when you never even tried to run yourself, and when mig wasn't even running, and had no votes either.
Why do you trust him, more than yourself?
Now that's absurdly bad.
|
On October 15 2011 04:59 syllogism wrote:
I never said I didn't talk to him about the game, you are imagining things. Mig said we talked a lot non-game related things, but that's about it.
It's you who is dodging. Explain how a townie gets elected without other townies voting for him and thus at least to a degree trusting him.
Where does that come in? Of course, you need other people to vote for you, but mig wasn't even running at that point. You claim that there wouldn't be votes for you, without even trying to secure votes. You said that the only real criteria for voting someone in is that they are town. So, you and mig were on an equal playing field as far as elections go, but instead of nominating yourself, a known quantity, you nominate mig, who you do not know the alignment of. That doesn't make sense. Maybe if he started a campaign, and already had momentum, I could understand you supporting him and not running if you got a town-vibe, but coming from someone who only wants the elected officials to be town, it seems incredibly odd that they would nominate someone else and not run themselves at that point, especially when a bs reason is given later as well.
Then add onto that you pressured mig into running, and that you refuse to share the skype convos that convinced you so much of his towniness, and I get a rather bad feeling. I'm pretty convinced you have ulterior motives behind setting up mig as mayor.
|
On October 15 2011 05:14 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 05:11 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On October 15 2011 04:59 syllogism wrote:
I never said I didn't talk to him about the game, you are imagining things. Mig said we talked a lot non-game related things, but that's about it.
It's you who is dodging. Explain how a townie gets elected without other townies voting for him and thus at least to a degree trusting him. Where does that come in? Of course, you need other people to vote for you, but mig wasn't even running at that point. You claim that there wouldn't be votes for you, without even trying to secure votes. You said that the only real criteria for voting someone in is that they are town. So, you and mig were on an equal playing field as far as elections go, but instead of nominating yourself, a known quantity, you nominate mig, who you do not know the alignment of. That doesn't make sense. Maybe if he started a campaign, and already had momentum, I could understand you supporting him and not running if you got a town-vibe, but coming from someone who only wants the elected officials to be town, it seems incredibly odd that they would nominate someone else and not run themselves at that point, especially when a bs reason is given later as well. Then add onto that you pressured mig into running, and that you refuse to share the skype convos that convinced you so much of his towniness, and I get a rather bad feeling. I'm pretty convinced you have ulterior motives behind setting up mig as mayor. Hey Wiggles, I have a question. What do you think about Mig as candidate, ignoring what you think about syllo?
He hasn't given me a reason to vote for him. He didn't do anything Day 0 (Not that it counts for much anyways), and then made a mayoral campaign only after being pressured to do so, where he re-hashes a lot of ideas that have already been expressed with little new content, and explains how he's townie because syllo says so, and that he's bad scum so we shouldn't worry anyways. His next post is defending drop_bear who made a null-tell. Could be a townie trap, could actually be mafia fishing for people. That's why I don't like when people do that.
He hasn't contributed enough, or talked about the game in a substantial enough way yet for me to want to vote for him.
Also, it's a bad idea to look at him in a vacuum anyways, because the game doesn't happen in a vacuum. Especially when he was pressured to run.
|
On October 15 2011 05:16 syllogism wrote:
You are back to saying that every single townie should run for mayor
I'm saying that from the reasons you gave and the situation at the time, there's no reason you should have pressured mig to run for mayor instead of running yourself. You're either not telling us everything, lying, or you have different motivations for your actions than you claim.
You still haven't defended your reasons for putting mig up instead of yourself.
I said I'd discuss with town, what do they think of syllo being a lynch candidate?
|
On October 15 2011 05:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
At this point in time, my top three likely votes are for wiggles/radfield/jimbo.
If you were on that list, please publicly state two things for me.
The first being who you would lynch right now and why, and the second is if you could choose mayor and pardoner now, excluding yourself, who would they be and why?
If I had to lynch right now, it would probably be Syllo. I'm getting a pretty bad vibe from him from his responses to what I was asking, and from the whole mayoral nomination in general. Like I said, I feel he has an ulterior motive for his actions, whether it's because mig is his scum-buddy, or because he thinks he can manipulate mig if he became mayor/pardoner, but between Sandro/Mig/Syllo, I feel there's at least one scum trying to be manipulative, and in my mind Syllo is the most likely candidate at this time. I might change my opinion in the future, as new information comes up, but if I had to lynch right now, it would be him.
If I could choose mayor/pardoner right now, it would be one of Jimbo/Radfield for the one position, and then someone else, I'm not sure who exactly for the other. Radfield and Jimbo, I chose, as they both seem capable, nominated themselves to the election, are active, and seem like decent scum-hunters. (Jimbo likes theory and guides, which implies he's at least experienced). I'd probably end up choosing Radfield, due to his lower queue position, and also because I get the feeling Jimbo is a riskier or more aggressive player from his posts. As well, I'd be able to get better reads on Radfield in subsequent days, as I have a better feel for his play. So, Radfield would be the pardoner. This is because I don't know who I'd put in the second position, and pardoner is more dangerous. For mayor, I'd pick maybe Chaoser if he picked up his activity, or Scamp, if he did the same and nominated himself. They're both level-headed players, who I feel wouldn't do anything too crazy with the lynch, and who could use the protection to scum-hunt effectively. Really, there isn't really an ideal mayoral candidate at the moment in my mind, but if I had to choose, it would be one of those two.
There's a general lack of thread activity and discussion, which I feel is really hurting the elections. There's probably more going on in private, but I feel the thread serves us better, because we can actually argue as an entire town here, and not just a few people convincing others in private, where there's less repercussions to what they say.
On October 15 2011 07:15 Mig wrote:
WBG I have been asleep not "noticeably absent" not even I am around 24h a day.
Addressing a few points brought up
1) I never said people should not analyze, don't be dense. I said you should spend more time analyzing other townies I even gave a brief idea of the types of things people should be looking for instead of using traditional scum hunting as their basis for determining someone's townieness.
And I will do plenty of scum hunting, I will put my track record of scum hunting up against almost anyone's. No one should have any concerns about that.
2) My day 0 posting has been bashed a little bit. Take a second and actually look at my day 0 posting. I did not post 5000 times about plans that everyone has agreed now are pretty much null tells. However, I did support kita's idea of turning Ace into a vigi that could only shoot mafia and I brought up the point that JOAT should not be delegated because it is the easiest role for mafia to drop to their teammates. Neither of these are major points but they both ONLY help town and harm mafia. I am not trying to put on some act to appear pro town I posted when I saw something that could be guaranteed to directly help the town and not mafia.
Outside of that I have already talked extensively to at least half the town on irc/skype/etc. And I will talk to anyone who wants to talk to me. If you have your doubts about me being town then message me on skype/irc/aim/etc. I will discuss ideas and give my opinions to anyone.
If you don't want to take syllo or sandroba's word that I am likely town that's fine. Message me yourself and we can discuss any concerns you have.
Why not discuss things in the thread? I actually think that even though this is a PM game, thread discussion is more important than normal. This will help stop the different mafia families from being able to plan and manipulate in the background, if we force more information into the public thread. They won't be able to hide as effectively by only really interacting with a few players. Unless everyone's dumping their PM and IRC logs, we also don't really have a way to tell if anyone's contradicting themselves or not taking a hard stance on something. I think that major things should be posted in the thread, and not kept solely to PMs. This also helps for analysis, as it disseminates more information to town, which lets us analyze better, and less information dies with a player.
(This is directed at everyone, not just mig)
|
@Hiro:
Mafia Hero, Mafia Vet, can both survive lynches. Voting one of those into pardoner is very bad, as it means that if they abuse their powers, we waste 3-4 days trying to get rid of them, as we can't NK them nor lynch them. At pick 3, it is very possible Jimbo could have taken one of those two roles, thus the trepidation when considering his queue placement.
@Jimbo:
Are you still running for mayor/pardoner? You're talking about your reads/posting analysis on Radfield and Sandro, and Mig but you haven't really mentioned if you still consider yourself to be running.
|
Well, I don't think I'm getting into office at this point, so I'm going to vote Radfield. He's the candidate I like the most, and I trust him to be pardoner. If a bunch of people start voting for him, I'll move my vote to the next leading candidate.
On October 16 2011 07:49 Arctocod wrote:
this game sucks
I don't really care what you do anymore. People are apparently more interested in trolling than actually playing the game.
Someone can shoot me so I can be confirmed town, and then you can know at least both syllogism and supersoft lied about their roleclaims.
Unless you mean you're going to die and flip town, shooting you doesn't confirm you. Also, would you care expanding on "both syllogism and supersoft lied about their roleclaims."? Do you mean they lied to you in a scum way, or just lied to you and you're mad that they lied?
|
If someone tried to take hero and didn't get it, please let us (me) know. <3
(Not connected to the post above)
|
On October 17 2011 08:52 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 08:47 deconduo wrote:
Wow I thought I would have a load to read up on when I got back but today has been really quiet. I'm surprised no one has called for a vig shot on Foolishness, he's very obviously scum at this point especially as Node flipped scum. The rest of the people trying to get greymist elected should be checked, especially WBG. yes, I should be checked, when I called on Radfield to lynch node.Are you retarded?
How's that relevant?
|
On October 18 2011 01:43 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 01:37 supersoft wrote:
##Vote Meapak_Ziphh
palmar made a huge post. i agree. reasons and details follow in about 4 hours if i dont change my mind.
@wbg: your case against me is so bad. my exam lasted from 9.00 to 14.00; i left my house at about 8.15 and entered the university at about 8.50
in the meantime from 14.00 to now i was in my repetitorium university course whatever its called in E and only could pm palmar from time to time.
if you want to use a kp on me for being wishy washy with these times i really dont care.
Baaaaa.
Are you a sheep!?!?!
|
On October 18 2011 04:34 sinani206 wrote:
Hi guys. Apparently I'm bad at remembering to tell hosts that I'm going on vacation. (Sorry)
Anyway I'm back now, so I'm going to play. I claimed to arctocod and I'm mostly caught up, I believe.
On the subject of who to lynch today, I think our best choice right now is probably Meapack_Ziphh based on the last few pages.
##Vote Meapak_Ziphh
Why did you claim?
|
On October 18 2011 10:25 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 10:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Jackal what makes you say that?
How do we know what Meapak is? Because a role swapper died. What would you claim as scum if you took NRA first? One of the top 5 have it and are on the same team as him.
That doesn't make sense with the role-swapper because Ken claimed to have his role stolen and have role swapper now. So, role-swapper didn't visit NRA, it got killed some other way.
Anyways, back to studying.
|
Unless Ken is lying, of course.
|
Hi, I'll vote with the red check.
I haven't done too much real analysis today, but I've shared some of my reads with a least one person (Who might have shared them all with others, I don't know).
Physics midterms suck. I slept two hours last night. If you really want to talk to me, send me a PM.
|
Does all KP count as a gun for bullet-bill, or just vig-like roles? For example, does CPR doc return as having a gun to bullet-bill even though he only has paddles? Can being framed make a player appear to be carrying a gun? Do all mafia count as carrying a gun at all times?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I9fe7.png)
