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On September 24 2011 04:24 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 24 2011 02:57 kitaman27 wrote:On September 24 2011 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 24 2011 02:19 kitaman27 wrote:On September 24 2011 01:56 Palmar wrote:
Sometimes it's just so hard to convince people to do the right thing, because for some reason no one ever realizes what the right action is. Given the situation we're in where we allowed scum to wiggle out of a lynch on day 2 because despite the win condition we all have clearly saying we need to clear all evil out of midgard, yet we let a balrog live when the lore clearly states he's pretty damn evil. I can't believe it's even up for discussion going after a vigilante/SK that decided to kill mafia last night without anyone counterclaiming him. There is just no chance in a game with fake-claims that Boromir the SK is more evil than Balrog the neutral peace-loving fire demon guy. But Kita in his almighty knowledge decided that chaoser must be eliminated immediately yet it's fine to allow iGrok to shuffle by another day. I want to remind you that iGrok was supposed by Kita's own terms to actively scumhunt and not just back away from the game, and yet he's done exactly that. Kita doesn't actually give a shit for obvious reasons. Once again I beg you to go back and read everything posted by both Syllogism and Sandroba because they are the best players that are dead in this game. But hey, why should you listen to me, I'm sometimes a dick! Syllogism pointed out how stupidly heist believes claims randomly (lol, pacific ocean), and jcarl doesn't want to trust me because he's way too busy being thick. Cheesekid is scum though, not even him can be this dumb. It's ok though we just need to lynch iGrok and everything suddenly becomes alright again. Note how fast Kita claimed chaoser was an SK, he knows he's not scum etc. Also he earlier in the game said "Chaoser for SK" because he knows mafia hit chaoser, then corrects himself and says that maybe he could be scum. Kita is just crazy scummy right now. But apparently me changing my mind is more scummy, because you know... it's not cool giving things second thoughts, we should always just go with whatever we first think of right? I'm actually just going to leave the thread for a while, maybe town will not suck so hard when I'm back in some hours. Look, we both agree iGrok can't be allowed to live to engame. If he gets lynched today, then that's fine by me. If there is a chance he is scum, not survivor, it might even be a better choice to kill him first. However, there is no doubt in my mind that chaoser is not town. On day one he took a hit. On day two, he got caught red handed killing someone. On day three, he comes up with an extremely convienent role that explains both the hit and the killing. The fact that you believe there is a town aligned bulletproof compulsive vig just blows my mid. chaoser is probably going to shoot me tonight. The only "conditions" his shots have is that the person has to be a threat to him. He can't be allowed to laugh his merry way to victory as a "Boromir", when it is beyond obvious that he is not. We already made a very stupid choise yesterday. Now just hang iGrok. -Pros over chaoser; 1) chaoser could very well shoot another scum in the face. iGrok failed in it last night. 2) We basically confirm Drazerk when iGrok flips. Ppl really should do what Palmar says and check syllo&sandroba posts. ##Vote iGrok If I swap my vote, will you be willing to lynch chaoser next? Yes, unless he shoots another scum at night. You do realize he has already SHOT AND KILLED MAFIA. What more do you need?
I'd rather kill SK if there are no better candidates.
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jcarlsoniv would you lynch iGrok over chaoser, or other way around? And why?
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On September 24 2011 04:41 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 04:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 24 2011 04:24 heist wrote:On September 24 2011 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 24 2011 02:57 kitaman27 wrote:On September 24 2011 02:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 24 2011 02:19 kitaman27 wrote:On September 24 2011 01:56 Palmar wrote:
Sometimes it's just so hard to convince people to do the right thing, because for some reason no one ever realizes what the right action is. Given the situation we're in where we allowed scum to wiggle out of a lynch on day 2 because despite the win condition we all have clearly saying we need to clear all evil out of midgard, yet we let a balrog live when the lore clearly states he's pretty damn evil. I can't believe it's even up for discussion going after a vigilante/SK that decided to kill mafia last night without anyone counterclaiming him. There is just no chance in a game with fake-claims that Boromir the SK is more evil than Balrog the neutral peace-loving fire demon guy. But Kita in his almighty knowledge decided that chaoser must be eliminated immediately yet it's fine to allow iGrok to shuffle by another day. I want to remind you that iGrok was supposed by Kita's own terms to actively scumhunt and not just back away from the game, and yet he's done exactly that. Kita doesn't actually give a shit for obvious reasons. Once again I beg you to go back and read everything posted by both Syllogism and Sandroba because they are the best players that are dead in this game. But hey, why should you listen to me, I'm sometimes a dick! Syllogism pointed out how stupidly heist believes claims randomly (lol, pacific ocean), and jcarl doesn't want to trust me because he's way too busy being thick. Cheesekid is scum though, not even him can be this dumb. It's ok though we just need to lynch iGrok and everything suddenly becomes alright again. Note how fast Kita claimed chaoser was an SK, he knows he's not scum etc. Also he earlier in the game said "Chaoser for SK" because he knows mafia hit chaoser, then corrects himself and says that maybe he could be scum. Kita is just crazy scummy right now. But apparently me changing my mind is more scummy, because you know... it's not cool giving things second thoughts, we should always just go with whatever we first think of right? I'm actually just going to leave the thread for a while, maybe town will not suck so hard when I'm back in some hours. Look, we both agree iGrok can't be allowed to live to engame. If he gets lynched today, then that's fine by me. If there is a chance he is scum, not survivor, it might even be a better choice to kill him first. However, there is no doubt in my mind that chaoser is not town. On day one he took a hit. On day two, he got caught red handed killing someone. On day three, he comes up with an extremely convienent role that explains both the hit and the killing. The fact that you believe there is a town aligned bulletproof compulsive vig just blows my mid. chaoser is probably going to shoot me tonight. The only "conditions" his shots have is that the person has to be a threat to him. He can't be allowed to laugh his merry way to victory as a "Boromir", when it is beyond obvious that he is not. We already made a very stupid choise yesterday. Now just hang iGrok. -Pros over chaoser; 1) chaoser could very well shoot another scum in the face. iGrok failed in it last night. 2) We basically confirm Drazerk when iGrok flips. Ppl really should do what Palmar says and check syllo&sandroba posts. ##Vote iGrok If I swap my vote, will you be willing to lynch chaoser next? Yes, unless he shoots another scum at night. You do realize he has already SHOT AND KILLED MAFIA. What more do you need? I'd rather kill SK if there are no better candidates. That's exactly the mentality that has really dominated decisions on every lynch. Mafia would love to lynch 3rd parties. They will survive yet again another lynch while we learn minimum from a neutral flip. You admit that you think he's most likely neutral 3rd party. Notice how almost none of the justifications of the votes on the neutrals follow your reasoning. Because it's almost always the wrong move to try and lynch a likely 3rd party neutral. So how is it mainly being justified? He has to be lying. He's mafia but EVEN IF he isn't, he'll give us information. Can we please look to someone on the Jackal lynch?
I think iGrok lynch is going to give us most possible info tonight. That's why I don't like lynching chaoser.
But i'm open for suggestions. Who should we be looking at?
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heist: What is ON flips town? Then we have to lynch iGrok for the THIRD time lol. And no matter what he flips after that is gonna be you. And if your analysis on ON was just horribly wrong, we had wasted 3 townmembers just to lynch iGrok.
Guess what, then it's no use to even talk about LYLO anymore..
I'm not even considering to switch my vote off iGrok, unless he actually starts doing something (aka tells us who saruman is). He already failed to shoot last night, and now he comes up with this Saruman thing. Also i'm curious why Drazerk isn't dead already.
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Also I'd like to add i fucking hate myself so much for Jackal lynch day 2. I even said at the beginning of the day:
On September 22 2011 03:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 03:13 chaoser wrote:
iGrok's claim makes no sense as a mafia, it makes more sense as a third party trying to fulfill their wincon early. I'm ok with a jackal lynch. He's posting a lot in the pony thread, not a lot here. Everything else radfield has said. If wherebugsgo is a mafia hit then it makes sense for jackal to push for the ring to be given to wherebugsgo. WBG gets ring, dies to mafia.
##vote: Jackal58 That would be the eaasy way to explain WBG mafia hit. Also Jackal's proposition to give the ring to WBG and see what happens don't seem scummy to me, it just gives a reason to mafia to kill WBG night 1 and push a lynch on Jackal day 2.
And guess what Radfield does the very next possible moment. And we all sheep him. Why did everyone miss this one of my posts? I even missed it myself lol..
Now the only person who can change my mind is iGrok himself.
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On September 24 2011 07:46 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 07:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
heist: What is ON flips town? Then we have to lynch iGrok for the THIRD time lol. And no matter what he flips after that is gonna be you. And if your analysis on ON was just horribly wrong, we had wasted 3 townmembers just to lynch iGrok.
Guess what, then it's no use to even talk about LYLO anymore..
I'm not even considering to switch my vote off iGrok, unless he actually starts doing something (aka tells us who saruman is). He already failed to shoot last night, and now he comes up with this Saruman thing. Also i'm curious why Drazerk isn't dead already. I've explained this to you. I am controllable until they lose their RBer and on top of this I am a very easy lynch target due to my connection with iGrok it makes no sense for Mafia to kill me yet.
I understand this. I also understand that Radfield was not willing to lynch iGrok and that raises my suspicions. I just want to see iGrok flip, i don't even care if he flips red/yellow/whatever but green, but for me that gives precious info. My precious......info..
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ON what's your opinion on chaoser and him being lynched maybe tomorrow?
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On September 24 2011 07:59 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
iGrok never mentioned if he killed or not
At least he didn't kill mafia. Scummy either way.
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Let's help him out. I claim Saruman. Dou you want to CC iGrok? Or anybody else?
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No, i just claimed Saruman.
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Do you really think i was serious?
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I'm just bored and iGrok is not helping. And if he's not helping i just have to sit and watch this thread like 24h :E
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On September 24 2011 10:28 OriginalName wrote:
Also look how he claims that he checked the only person to really recieve any attention at all when he posts it.
His check is bullshit, his kill is a mafia kill, there is no reason to suspect somebody who has already probably lied, sure he abides by his so called "claim" but what reason do we have to believe it. In my eyes iGrok is completely scum regardless of team or otherwise and has to go today.
Lying or not its one less KP in the game.
You saying he necessarily wasn't lying? tsk tsk..
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On September 25 2011 00:24 TranceStorm wrote:
I think iGrok's claim that he found a Maia in OriginalName is incredibly convenient. In my opinion, he simply looked around for whom he thought was most likely scum (and with the analysis that other players provided) announced his target as a part of the effort to get the vote off of him.
Think about it, if you had found a Maia through your investigations, you would come out and say "I found out that x was Maia" at the beginning of the day. Instead what iGrok did was say "I won't tell you who it is" - but then he later switches to "yeah, it was ON" when a few other players were attacking OriginalName at the time.
Finally, I find it strange that iGrok 'chose to investigate' OriginalName when his FOS in the previous day was Palmar. Would you not want to confirm your suspicions?
This is what i find suspicious too. Also iGrok stated in his big post the following:
Here, minimal interaction with DrH is played off as enough to auto-confirm him. This post sets off alarm bells in my head. Palmar contributed 4 posts before DrH died, 2 of which were "Herp I'm not reading the thread" (He was obviously reading the thread). Its his fourth post that interests me: "DrH is giving me really bad vibes." At the time, it looked like just another throwaway post. But post DrH's death, this post looks more like DrH new he was going to be modkilled and Palmar jumped out early to get a townie point.
For the rest of the game, two things are going on. He puts faith in Radfield, and he continues to stress Sandroba town. (yes theres other shit but those're the important parts)
Palmar already feels scummy. So lets continue on that assumption, and introduce possibilities.
1)Radfield and Sandroba are both town. If this is true, then Palmar is trying to gain town cred when they flip. With sandroba acting scummy and a possible lynch, and Radfield a good mafia target, thats two points for him. Fits with calling DrH scum.
2)Radfield is town, Sandroba is scum. This is using Radfield's town cred to make Sandroba look better. Even those who don't trust Palmar will subliminally put them on closer levels. If sandroba didn't look so damn scummy, it might work.
3)Radfield is scum, Sandroba is town. I just... don't see this as possible.
4)Both are scum. I don't know what this would mean actually
Why didn't you check Palmar n2? Who did you check n1?
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On September 25 2011 00:27 OriginalName wrote:
You guys can lose game idgaf.
Go listen to wishy washy pyo and bad logic heist all you want see if I really give a shit anymore.
At least if you actually are town, you could provide us something more than just insulting these ppl who give analysis and push your lynch.
Who do you think is mafia then (other than iGrok) and why?
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Also iGrok; Why didn't you shoot anyone last night, lets make it clearer. Why didn't you kill Palmar, when you were so sure about him being scum. Why did you check ON instead?
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On September 25 2011 02:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I don't think killing iGrok is the optimal source of information when if we kill someone likely to be scum we can draw links between that person and others. We let him off yesterday, I don't really get why it's suddenly a huge mistake to have done that.
Go back and look at the claims of chaoser and igrok, if we must kill a neutral party, chaoser is the optimal choice.
However, keeping the third party for now might be better because any serial killers within it have a reasonable chance of hitting more of the remaining mafia.
Ideally, I would lynch Palmar today for being entirely useless and acting very scummy. I don't see that happening, so I'm going to
##Unvote
I'm going to vote ON because he was one of the people that followed both of Radfield's vote swings, among other previously listed reasons that convinced me.
##Vote OriginalName
Why do you prefer chaoser lynch over iGrok, given the facts;
1) chaoser shot scum
2) iGrok didn't shoot anyone, instead he comes up with a Saruman over OriginalName.
iGrok was wierdly enough checking ON night 2, when he was pretty sure Palmar is scum (at least he stated so). Why did he check ON over Palmar? The only reason i can think of is that he checked Palmar night 1. Is that so iGrok?
Also he comes with this "ON being Saruman" thing just after heist and Pyo have accused ON. Don't you find it suspicious?
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On September 25 2011 03:26 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 25 2011 02:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I don't think killing iGrok is the optimal source of information when if we kill someone likely to be scum we can draw links between that person and others. We let him off yesterday, I don't really get why it's suddenly a huge mistake to have done that.
Go back and look at the claims of chaoser and igrok, if we must kill a neutral party, chaoser is the optimal choice.
However, keeping the third party for now might be better because any serial killers within it have a reasonable chance of hitting more of the remaining mafia.
Ideally, I would lynch Palmar today for being entirely useless and acting very scummy. I don't see that happening, so I'm going to
##Unvote
I'm going to vote ON because he was one of the people that followed both of Radfield's vote swings, among other previously listed reasons that convinced me.
##Vote OriginalName Why do you prefer chaoser lynch over iGrok, given the facts; 1) chaoser shot scum 2) iGrok didn't shoot anyone, instead he comes up with a Saruman over OriginalName. iGrok was wierdly enough checking ON night 2, when he was pretty sure Palmar is scum (at least he stated so). Why did he check ON over Palmar? The only reason i can think of is that he checked Palmar night 1. Is that so iGrok? Also he comes with this "ON being Saruman" thing just after heist and Pyo have accused ON. Don't you find it suspicious? Bottom line first, of course it's suspicious, that doesn't make it impossible. That claim wasn't one of the things that convinced me, because it likely was convenient lie. I wouldn't even put it past him to have found the real Saruman and lied about who rather than be forced out of that information so far from the lynch. Chaoser attacked the person who was leading the town best, The fact Radfield flipped scum doesn't necessarily excuse that. I'm not sure about iGrok's reasoning, but learning he could be blocked changed things. The rest of the difference between the two of them in my eyes is related to their claims. Chaoser used a claim that sounded relatively safe, but had many mistakes like Boromir as a neutral party when he was party of the fellowship and a 'win with town' victory condition. iGrok's is nothing near safe and is relatively more believable.
Actually Radfield was leading the town worst possible, pushing 2 townie lynches (Errandor and Jackal) at the last minute of dayphase.
Are you scumbuddies with iGrok?
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EPT
