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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I would be actually more interested finding mafia than a 3rd party, but as I see it we really have no choise this point but lynch iGrok. Or do we? Vote for whoever you feel to be the most deserving of a lynch. This is not a majority required game, a no-lynch won't occur. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 02:25 Palmar wrote: no you're not prplhz, and I agree with you. I'm not going to respond to a case made by scum Cyber, sorry. I can answer some of your questions though, because given the last game I played with you, you were dumb enough to believe shit like "mafia shoots people who are obviously town, but wrong" and then voting for obvious townies. some things. a) it's not bandwagoning when I'm the first person to vote him b) discuss other people all you want, but not lynching iGrok would be nothing sort of stupid right now. c) I always scumhunt on meta only. Call me bad for it, but I'm actually very effective at finding scum. I'm a bit of a dick so I'm less effective at convincing town. But yeah, iGrok claiming is weird and unbelievable. So can you provide the meta your using with comparison or not? | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 02:31 Palmar wrote: Stop giving bad advice. If you have a good case, make it. If it doesn't take off, take a stance towards the other cases. If you think one of the cases is not terrible, vote for that, because townies voting random wagons that aren't working gives mafia statistically more sway in the vote. Your full of it. The mafia only gain more sway only if they decide it's safer to have all their votes in one place where it's easy to link them all. People don't have to vote for a leading candidate, and really shouldn't unless they feel that person is the most scummy. We saw your methodology fail Day 1. People didn't like the options yesterday and were too easily swayed into a third 'major' target in Errandor because they felt they had to go with a major lynch. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 03:05 Archon_Toilet wrote: igrok is a strange one. All the reason I wanted him killed make sense now that he has claim survivor role. He has however either left out crucial mechanic or lied about his role now that syllo try to kill him and he survived. I would be ok with lynching him still if nothing else come up, better lynch third party than a townie. I am dropping jcarlsoniv for now that case was going nowhere. I feel drazerk has kind of disappeared and isn't getting enough attention. He has very bad voting history, strange interaction with the only confirm mafioso and majority of his post are very short and uninformative. Do you have an opinion on Palmar? | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 03:30 syllogism wrote: Why would you protect igrok? Even for you that would be unbelievably stupid Says the person who chose to day vig him the day he revealed. You should have waited for the next day at least, such that any medics could change target If there was a medic on iGrok, this raises more questions on the other two that 'survived hits' | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 03:37 syllogism wrote: You've already repeatedly established that you are really daft, so I'm not even going to bother explaining the obvious to you We can use iGrok's one shot kill to our advantage. I'm not about to hang him for offering us that instead of saving it for himself. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 03:40 syllogism wrote: Drazerk and now please slowly explain what you protecting igrok says about his alignment I can't speak for him, but iIt's not about his alignment, it's about the alignment of the people pushing his lynch that I care about. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 04:17 chaoser wrote: Yeah it's WIFOM but not all WIFOM is the same. Everything in the game is technically WIFOM, even someone pushing intensely for a mafia's lynch. This one literally makes no sense. Agreed, I don't think chaoser and iGrok are part of a scum team together. If he planned to bus his teammate, he would have kept his vote there. On September 22 2011 04:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, he wins with mafia TOO, so why would mafia kill waste a KP on him over townie? He can pick his side and he sure will pick a side that suits him best. Also no townie can confirm 100% that iGrok actually isn't mafia. Also this. Something stinks about iGrok's claim for sure. ##Vote iGrok iGrok i still would like to hear your response, why do you find sandroba scummy? If we use his ability and hit a scum, it puts us in a very advantageous position. Mafia might kill him in the hopes that he doesn't choose to use his kill. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 04:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you confirm 100% iGrok is not mafia? Can you confirm 100% anyone is not mafia? The question you want to be asking is "Can you attest that the chances of X being mafia are higher than the chances of Y being mafia?" If Y was iGrok, I would say yes for the following current candidates -Palmar -TranceStorm -I'm undecided on Jackal and pyo | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, sorry about that. I meant to say: What makes you and Cyber_Cheese think iGrok would ally town over mafia? Town is the majority, his kill would end the game faster if it were to hit a mafia, and that brings his victory closer as well as ours. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 04:40 supersoft wrote: That's wrong. We are the majority, but mafia has a much higher killpotential. They only lost DrH. We lost many more people. Right now, the scumteam is in an advanteogus position. Only because we seem to be concerning ourselves with the third parties, don't forget the scum kp usually goes down as they die, and we can try and find one today to kill. If iGrok's kill isn't on the person we want it on, we lynch him tomorrow and he loses. We don't have to hand over the ring and seal the deal he proposed, he's going to value his survival and eventual victory more than he will value the spite of wasting his kp on one of us. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Or then he can wait to the late game and see which side is more powerful. Right now mafia is doing far better then town. And town still can't be sure he is not mafia, only mafia knows that. I'm not sure about you, but that applies to everyone in the game for me. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 06:04 prplhz wrote: i'm inclined to believe all this because of how shitty igrok has played it's like he doesn't want to put in any effort at all so he just posts one liners and when his win con is met he tries to ally with town .. it's like a great progamer once put it "it's funny, you won without doing a single thing" i like chaoser for lynch how about that? Make a convincing write-up on him and I'll consider it. I'm not a fan of a new lynch target with a couple of hours to go, but it was possible on Errandor so... | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
Here is the only post he ever made a significant response to, followed by said response: On September 22 2011 01:46 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Use some of that enthusiasm and respond to the case he made against you + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2011 19:31 iGrok wrote: Oh, ##vote: Palmar. For everything I said earlier. + Show Spoiler [For those of you who skipped my big post] + On September 18 2011 08:24 Palmar wrote: hey guys, I'm in a good mood so I'm not gonna ruin it by reading the thread. See you tomorrow This was his first post. Nothing scummy here, but it sets the mood for everything else he posts. Now, here's a list of his opinions since then. Radfield, WBG, Errandor prplhz DrH Radfield, himself, Sandroba, Pyo Pause. Next post. On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote: In any case, if you're lying, you should consider giving it away. btw, Sandroba is almost definitely town, but only if he takes his vote off me. I'm basically confirmed town from my exchanges with DrH, but only people like sandroba/syllo etc will see it. We need to keep an eye on syllo... yarly. chaoser is also very likely town. I don't like the smell of iGrok and Kita... Here, minimal interaction with DrH is played off as enough to auto-confirm him. This post sets off alarm bells in my head. Palmar contributed 4 posts before DrH died, 2 of which were "Herp I'm not reading the thread" (He was obviously reading the thread). Its his fourth post that interests me: "DrH is giving me really bad vibes." At the time, it looked like just another throwaway post. But post DrH's death, this post looks more like DrH new he was going to be modkilled and Palmar jumped out early to get a townie point. For the rest of the game, two things are going on. He puts faith in Radfield, and he continues to stress Sandroba town. (yes theres other shit but those're the important parts) Palmar already feels scummy. So lets continue on that assumption, and introduce possibilities. 1)Radfield and Sandroba are both town. If this is true, then Palmar is trying to gain town cred when they flip. With sandroba acting scummy and a possible lynch, and Radfield a good mafia target, thats two points for him. Fits with calling DrH scum. 2)Radfield is town, Sandroba is scum. This is using Radfield's town cred to make Sandroba look better. Even those who don't trust Palmar will subliminally put them on closer levels. If sandroba didn't look so damn scummy, it might work. 3)Radfield is scum, Sandroba is town. I just... don't see this as possible. 4)Both are scum. I don't know what this would mean actually And while your at it, care to answer my questions about you? + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2011 21:10 Cyber_Cheese wrote: This post aroused some serious suspcions on Palmar when I read it, he wants to shutdown discussion on other possible scum candidates apparently. I took a look through his filter for some background, and subsequently lead me to believe he is scum. When prodded by Syllogism to provide some background, he returns with this: If bandwagoning is useful, then sure he's a great help. But in the interests of being fair, let's look more at his voting on IGrok: Up until this point, his comments on IGrok were So he doesn't like IGroks smell, and the rest of his reasoning relies on meta. It doesn't get any better as time passes Notice how everything he uses is purely meta? This in itself is fine, but if you want to use meta, you have to do more than simply mention the word meta. He doesn't prove a comparison of IGrok's current playstyle to this meta, nor does he choose to bring up anything related to IGrok's actions in the current game. I'm not sold on IGrok either, but if this counts as a reason to vote for someone and useful contribution, somethings wrong. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar I feel like this whole case on iGrok is just mafia leading the lynch, because aside from his apparently senseless claim there isn't much on him. He could have just done what Palmar is doing right now and ignored anything that put him in a negative light, but he chose to come forward with his role, and now I believe the mafia are using the role claim to blind town from the questions we raise on them, the most notable of which being iGroks argument against Palmar attached to his role claim. My replies are underlined, things I consider important are bolded On September 22 2011 02:25 Palmar wrote: no you're not prplhz, and I agree with you. I'm not going to respond to a case made by scum Cyber, sorry. I can answer some of your questions though, because given the last game I played with you, you were dumb enough to believe shit like "mafia shoots people who are obviously town, but wrong" and then voting for obvious townies. some things. a) it's not bandwagoning when I'm the first person to vote him He was under suspicion from yesterday. You did not provide any arguments outside of meta that you couldn't contrast for us. b) discuss other people all you want, but not lynching iGrok would be nothing sort of stupid right now. c) I always scumhunt on meta only. Call me bad for it, but I'm actually very effective at finding scum. I'm a bit of a dick so I'm less effective at convincing town. I ignore cases other people bring up just in case people act the same as they did in previous games? But yeah, iGrok claiming is weird and unbelievable. Breaking down that reply leaves: On September 22 2011 04:04 Palmar wrote: well you're right, he does win with mafia  So, let me sum this shit up. iGrok claims 3rd party role that wins with mafia. We have Cyber_cheese defending him like the baddie he is, could be town/could be mafia So if you aren't sure I'm scum why don't you reply to all my points instead of picking and choosing? we have chaoser telling us to let mafia deal with him... what the hell? mafia would not shoot him in a million years. mafia. and we have Drazerk claiming medic to save 3rd party (what the shit?) because he's sure mafia will go after him.... mafia. can't be this terrible. This is hilarious. On September 22 2011 02:49 Palmar wrote: I already stated it... day 1 of some mafia game by Ace. It's really not relevant anymore since he claimed an anti town role. Then he claimed a medic save (no medic in their right mind would save him at that point). So what exactly are you voting him on if this meta is inaccurate? | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 06:46 GreYMisT wrote: My vote will remain on Jackal. Radfield how do you recommend we direct IGrok's target? On September 22 2011 06:52 Drazerk wrote: If we have a vigi he should be aiming his gun at palmar tonight. It's best we consolidate onto jackal for today especially with how little time we have left I'm not sure that consolidating on Jackal is a good idea, but I think we found a target. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 06:51 sandroba wrote: Man here is the deal. Let's assume igrok is telling the truth. We don't lynch him and we tell him to shoot X person tonight. Obviously if that person is mafia he will be roleblocked. If the person is town they will either let the shot go through or roleblock him and create a fucking mess and possibly waste more lynches. He can withold his shot indefinitely and claim rb. He can claim he found saruman at any time and possibly make us mislynch. We can't deal with him later in the game close to lylo. So even if he is actually telling the truth I don't see how we can trust this and trust he won't do pro-mafia actions. There is currently 7 townies and 1 mafia dead, so I know who I would side with if I was what he claims to be. Mafia is never going to get rid of him for us. We can either lynch him now or have a copy of this day at a later date, so I don't think we have much of a choice besides lynching him now. It's an unstoppable kill, I imagine RB won't stop it. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 07:16 prplhz wrote: hey TranceStorm why are you ghost voting on the bandwagon and why are you always one of the last guys to jump on the bandwagon? I think you missed this post, he will need to answer the second half himself though. On September 22 2011 06:51 TranceStorm wrote: Both Jackal and Palmar are really really similar in my eyes. Both of them post a ton of one-liners and haven't given really substantive analysis at all this game. Both of them always seem to do that in all of their games. However, Jackal hasn't voiced an opinion at all on the current candidates but continues to jump around calling everyone scum. My vote will be going to Jackal right now. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
Why did so many people wait for Radfield's opinion? Surely your all capable of having one for yourselves. I am currently wondering how this accusation weighs in: I am also thinking that night might be the perfect time to work on the cipher, since throwing around things like the one above can make you a priority target. On iGrok's kill; It occurs to me that every day we don't use it is a day that mafia have a reason to attack him on, whether this is a worthy trade-off for waiting I am not sure, I'd much prefer to use it but I can see value in saving it and it's probably worthy of debate. Giving him the ring for night immunity to absorb more hits I played around with in my head and is stupid. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 19:10 supersoft wrote: yes well, sorry for not voting, i was so tired and i slept in. i didnt want to vote for jackal. therefore i tried to find a better target. palmar what do you think about radfield. i think he controlled the town day1/2 and lead us nowhere. jackal really was a bad lynch. lynching him this early in the game when he had no time to do something and scum had no time to shoot him isn't optimal. When presented with the choice, he chose jackal for whatever reason,and then all those people figured they could follow his lead. While you should remember that Jackal didn't look innocent, the case was better on Palmar than it was on Jackal, I suspect him and/or several of the people that moved to Jackal are scum. These people were on both Errandor and Jackal's wagons at days end, and in my opinion are therefore people we should be wary of: -Radfield -kitaman27 -OriginalName -TranceStorm -Drazerk | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On September 22 2011 21:04 prplhz wrote: @palmar how the hell is drazerk pushing scum agenda? if he is pushing scum agenda then igrok is clearly scum, why doesn't he appear on your list? because he's the one doing the kill? If we're voting on the NK or at least making cases for it, I'm going with Palmar for reasons that appear in my filter. | ||
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