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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I don't think this is a good idea. You can't tell whether a person is mafia or not just based on the fact that they're lurking. I would agree that we should pressure them, since lurking adds to inactivity and is detrimental to the town atmosphere, but I don't believe I've played a game yet when half the lurkers WEREN'T townies. I'll be back in a couple hours after class to put my thoughts out there. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 01:37 Sevryn wrote: That gets rid of the pressure. "O hey im going to vote for you now but its not for real so dont worry you can keep lurking." yeah no shit, this genius already managed that one: On September 14 2011 00:33 Nisani201 wrote: We don't intend to lynch the lurkers. We plan to pressure them. This is very true. Listen to the voice of reason, AKA greymist: On September 14 2011 01:10 GreYMisT wrote: Lurking is obviously pretty bad for the town, as is being inactive. I feel, however, that we need to go after real targets as a priority even on day 1. Scum can use this lynch inactives policy to shunt lynches away from themselves, and we don't want that to bite us later on. Lynching real targets before lurkers will also give us more information. I will post some analysis when I am out of bio lab in about 3 hours. Lurking is a null tell, IMO. If we pursue null tells vigorously through policy lynches of lurkers we're gonna get screwed hard when those lurkers pop town. This is exactly what has ruined some games for us that I've played in. Correct lynches rely on townies establishing themselves as town early on (as in Resurrection) and then pursuing behavioral clues in order to find mafia. We HAVE to lynch mafia based on contradictions and behavior. If behavior lines up with activity and voting patterns, great! If not, then we can't use activity or a lack thereof as a reason to lynch someone. It's just not reliable. On September 14 2011 01:44 Jackal58 wrote: I think lynching them is an excellent idea. I'm also realistic and understand it never fucking happens. And then in 3 days when all the active players are dead we get to listen to you cry, whine and complain about a game full of lurkers. But it's all good man. I plan on being dead by then anyways. wtf is this If active players are making sense then town needs to listen to them, medics need to prot them, etc. etc. If active players are contradicting themselves and being wishy washy then we need to lynch them. Killing lurkers is the job of the vigilantes; they can more clearly determine who is scummy out of a pool of lurkers without having to deal with the shitfest of information that is influenced by both mafia and dumb townies. If we lynch lurkers then we are susceptible to be influenced heavily by scum, and that is EXACTLY what we do not want. On September 14 2011 02:23 dreamflower wrote: Ah, true. Yes, I was referring to lurkers when I said inactives. My apologies. A lot of my thinking still dates back to the olden days before inactivity modkills or the Ban List, so please excuse me if I phrase things oddly like that. I also agree about OriginalName, whom I'm a little annoyed about not noticing myself. I also noticed that DroneAllDay's statement of Mafia newness came very soon after he signed up and long before roles were sent out, so that pretty much rules out his being a Mafia trying to masquerade as a newbie. My mistake there. OriginalName's one contribution to the thread after the Day post has been to call Forumite's post "a huge pile of fluff," but after that he hasn't said anything else at all. That does look more like lurking than outright inactivity. . Dreamflower are you an oldtimer?  nice to meet/play with you.ON's mafia play is really easy to spot, IMO. By his vote post alone I knew he was scum in Resurrection. Until that point, like we see now, he was just another lurker. Finally, I have to disagree about this: On September 14 2011 02:23 dreamflower wrote: To add my own opinion on the merits of lynching lurkers, I think it is a good idea early on, when we don't have much information to work with. I agree that lynching lurkers doesn't yield much information afterward, but I don't think going after "real" targets always does either. The people who argue for a townie to be lynched or vote for their lynch are not necessarily Mafia themselves. So, I don't think either approach can give us much in the way of useful information We gain next to nothing by lynching a lurker, unless of course that lurker happens to be mafia. Lurkers, by definition, haven't contributed anything. Thus, except in exceptional circumstances, we can't really link them to anyone else, and we can't even be sure about their flip until they die. It's just an unreliable scumhunting method IMO. With your last sentence you can easily replace "townie" with "lurker". What happens when the townie is also a lurker? Then, what's up with you concluding that neither approach can give us much useful information? If you think neither method is good, then wtf do we do? Do we go after behavioral clues, which are easiest to spot among active players, or do we lynch lurkers? I'm not understanding your conclusion, you don't really suggest what we should do. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 03:46 tnkted wrote: Yeah, I'm backing off greymyst for now, his defence wasn't convincing but the manner of it has mollified me for now. I'll hop on the originalname bandwagon until he perks his pony little head up. ## Unvote ## Vote OriginalName Also, do these smaller games not have voting threads? Are voting threads going away? This post smells funny to me. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Lurkers
9.) OriginalName 11.) sinani206 If and only if we don't have a more active, scummy target? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Also like I said about ON we'll know if he's mafia when he decides to vote. Is drone a smurf or new? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 04:46 tnkted wrote: Why would you give the noob some lattitude? This is how they learn: they get lynched d1 as town for lurking after they were pressured. Why would you blatantly hop on a bandwagon after saying your previous target's defense was unconvincing? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 04:47 dreamflower wrote: So, yes to the above post. No one right now is jumping out at me as being active and scummy, so I would prefer lynching a lurker this early in the game. One just jumped out to me. He's more mafia than any of those lurkers. Tnkted has contributed a smidgeon more than those 3 (voila they've contributed absolute jack shit) but tnkted has actively lurked. ##vote tnkted I don't like your wishy washiness, scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 04:59 tnkted wrote: Uh, what? Did you even read my post? And as for contributing jack shit: I posted a small little analysis on Greymyst, he responded to my FoS and I'm satisfied with the way he responded. If you don't think that's enough contribution for day one, too fucking bad. I have a life, you know. Why would you say his defense wasn't convincing then? It's as if you put both things in there just to be safe. Your analysis on Greymist didn't seem genuine to me, that's why I'm jumping all over you now. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 11:16 sinani206 wrote: This is a pressure vote, to prompt an answer to my question, "Why lynch a lurker if we have a perfectly good other lynch candidate?" I don't understand why other people can pressure vote me, but I can't pressure vote others. I think it's generally cause your town play is so bad we can't tell the difference between it and real mafia. I mean even right now I can't tell your alignment. I don't like the lynch lurker policy but really I can't fault them for voting you, you're not giving anyone any reason to keep you around. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 11:49 Nisani201 wrote: I don't think you should be able to tell anyone's alignment this early in the game. Good luck ever figuring out sinani's alignment. Won't find that out till he flips. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 11:58 tnkted wrote: Er, yeah, Curu, we can't lynch him because YOU SAY he will be bad for town atmosphere. I'm not really convinced you know what you're talking about. You were so gungho about teaching Droneallday a "lesson" by getting him lynched day 1, so he would learn that he needs to contribute as town. Sinani is arguably just as bad and yet you have a big problem with pushing for his lynch? Are you scumbuddies? On September 14 2011 04:46 tnkted wrote: Why would you give the noob some lattitude? This is how they learn: they get lynched d1 as town for lurking after they were pressured. Sinani doesn't seem to have learned yet that we don't like his lurking/anti-town nill contribution style, yet you don't seem to care for policy lynching him. So, Mr. Tnkted, why so flip-floppy? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 10:30 sinani206 wrote: ##Vote: dreamflower for even bringing up the subject of lynching a lurker. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 14 2011 13:32 Curu wrote: WBG you seem to agree with me on sinani (you were in that game too) but how come your vote never moved? I agree that sinani is playing really poorly but I never agreed that he was the best lynch. I'm not gonna vote sinani cause I don't think we should lynch him today. How god damn hard is it for you morons to understand this? Instead, I think we should lynch tnkted. Just look at how fast the bandwagon on sinani piled up. You guys don't think that's strange? Unless scum is all out bussing him day 1 I think we ought to leave sinani be until we're more certain of his alignment. On September 15 2011 02:52 Nisani201 wrote: I am going to Unvote: Curu. I feel like we were all just arguing while scum watched and laughed. IMO there would have been more people in the conversation if one of us were scum. I will move my vote over to wherebugsgo, because he was perfectly active until we started arguing. He has posted no opinions on it because he doesn't feel the need to; he can afford for any of us to die. He simply comments on the same things that Curu has been bringing up, which is "Sinani played horribly in Ace's game, so we should lynch him." ##Vote: wherebugsgo what in the hell is this? There is only one thing I dislike more than wishy washiness, and that is lying. You sir, are a liar. I never said I wanted to lynch Sinani. I said I can understand why people would want to lynch him, but I never said we should lynch him. If I thought we should lynch him I would've voted him. Ever get that through your dumb head, Nisani? Honestly, until reading this post I thought you were just a dumb townie but now I smell that you could possibly have an agenda. Townies might grasp at straws but they certainly wouldn't fabricate things or put words in other people's mouths. Other gems of Nisani's I've found: On September 15 2011 00:57 Nisani201 wrote: Also, I might not be as active during this portion of day becauSBe Minecraft 1.8 is out, and I will probably have a lot of homework. You had a problem with me being inactive (BECAUSE I WAS SLEEPING) but you are planning on being less active during the most important part of the day? The day ends in like 3 hours. Also, you even said you wanted to hear from Forumite but you knew he is in another time zone and that's why you knew he wouldn't respond till later. So why did it never cross your mind that I could be sleeping as well? Nice double standards, scum. On September 15 2011 07:13 Nisani201 wrote: Majority lynch is weird. I don't like it. However, GreYMisT is right, I shouldn't be voting for an outlier. ##Unvote ##Vote: Curu If anyone else is interested in lynching wherebugsgo, just post it here, and maybe I can get some more votes on him. "oh I seem to have been caught for my shitty reasoning. Time to jump back on a bandwagon on a person I just said was town one post ago!" On September 14 2011 13:24 Nisani201 wrote: I already stated in the thread that I only intended to lynch lurkers if they ended up not posting. (however I will admit that this was poorly thought out, because he would be eligible for modkill anyways). I prefered voting for DroneAllDay rather than Sinani because Sinani has not done anything scummy. The case against Forumite is not good enough to warrant a vote. And then you come around, calling everyone scum, and make yourself the perfect target for my vote. EZ. He admits that he did not think about his vote. I repeat, Nisani201 DID NOT THINK ABOUT HIS VOTE. So Nisani, you're willing to arbitrarily throw around votes and cause havoc (like the shit town atmosphere we have right now) just on the basis of wanting to lynch lurkers for not posting? That's a great way to blend in, isn't it? Lynch the guy who can't respond to you cause he's inactive. That way there's no backlash for your shitty reasoning. Yet, when you got called out on it you soft-defended sinani ("sinani has not done anything scummy") and the only other case is on Forumite. Who, I'm guessing is town, since you dismissed him so easily. There's only two options for you: 1.) You rolled town, yet you have yet to use your brain and are just acting immensely thick. 2.) You're scum, trying to mislead others about what I said to try to fabricate a case on me, and are trying really hard to blend in. I'm leaning toward #2 right now. With all of this, however, I have more things to point out. Our best lynch today, as I said earlier, is tnkted. I will explain further: On September 14 2011 22:04 tnkted wrote: Fair enough, You certainly haven't been lurking. ##Unvote My thoughts on DroneAllDay: I don't think he's posted since the day started, which means he's probably going to get modkilled. Perhaps he hasn't checked his pms in awhile? Either way, I think he's going to get himself dead without anybody's help (@Dreamflower: This is one of the main reasons NOT to lynch lurkers; they tend to get themselves modkilled anyway and we waste a lynch). My thoughts on lucidity: his post analyzing dreamflower was extremely interesting because it was well done. I don't know if I agree with his conclusions, but his method was very effective: It paraphrased the important aspects of dreamflower's post, and interpreted them in order to understand what dreamflower was really talking about. THIS is a good way to find scum. Now, why he chose dreamflower and nobody else is kind of interesting; Dreamflowers scumhunting abilities are so legendary (for me anyway) that I have a hard time believing she intended to come across as scummy as she did. I want to hear her response before I vote for her. Also interesting to note is that lucidity didn't actually vote her himself; he's also waiting for a response. For what it's worth, right now dreamflower is my #1 vote but I'll abstain until she shows up to defend herself. Eh, what the hell. I can always change it later. ##Vote: Dreamflower I have no self control. Now, to deal with some mindless accusations: Frankly, this is a complete nonsense post. "Tnkted makes a good point about forumite not being scum, which convinced me, but later, i changed my mind and now I think he's scum too!" WHY did you change your mind when what I said made sense to you? Go find me evidence where he stopped acting like an annoyed townie and more like a frightened scum, and I'll consider switching to you. Please post a case against me instead of just throwing out soft foses. You think people don't notice when you do this? What? What kind of reasoning is this? Tnkted is voting dreamflower not because dreamflower made contradictions, not because dreamflower seems to be pushing an agenda, and not because dreamflower appears scummy to him but because dreamflower appears scummy to LUCIDITY. This is the textbook definition of sheeping. Tnkted contributed absolutely nothing in this entire post except a massive sheep vote of Dreamflower by following Lucidity blindly. You all need to seriously consider tnkted as a lynch today. Finally, there are a few other players who I found made interesting remarks today, and who I think we should keep an eye on. Sinani and Curu for obvious reasons, but I have an inkling at least one of them is town. Chaos I never have a proper read on, he could be anything, but his reasoning as always has been fairly bad. For example, his forumite vote post in which he considers tnkted to be scum but doesn't actually say why. Let's keep him in mind. + Show Spoiler + lol I still <3 you chaos In summary: Lynchlist: tnkted Watchlist: Nisani201, sinani206, Curu, chaos13 worthy of a vig shot to the face: tnkted, nisani Nisani is scummy to me, but as of right now there's no way to tell whether he's just a retarded townie or if he's mafia with an agenda. I lean mafia, but lynching him today is not the best option. Vigging him might be good, though. Tnkted is our best lynch. Filter him and look at how he blends in, look at his sheeping of Lucidity, and look at his contradiction with respect to the lurker lynch policy and Droneallday. All of these things line up with a scum agenda IMO. None of these things make sense from a pro-town mindset. I'll be around for the next 5-8 hours, so I hope to see people involved so that we can make a proper lynch. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 15 2011 08:10 Jackal58 wrote: Dreamflower is the only person that has made any sense in this game yet. ##UNVOTE: Chaos13 ##VOTE: sinani206 good point, cause this post you made didn't really prove that you're making sense either. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 15 2011 08:40 Lucidity wrote: Can everypony stop with the name calling? There's no need to be rude. I think tnkted is a great choice, but is his lynch a realistic possibility? I won't be here for the lynch so I feel safer leaving my vote on sinani. WBG: In what world could sinani and Curu both be scum? I didn't say I thought both of them are scum. I just worded my thoughts badly. Finally, there are a few other players who I found made interesting remarks today, and who I think we should keep an eye on. Sinani and Curu for obvious reasons, but I have an inkling at least one of them is town. I think at least one of them is town, but I'm actually leaning toward both of them being town. The reason I say we keep an eye on them is that they've created a huge mess today and it would be stupid to dismiss them both. My best guess is that it's two townies butting heads, with extra influence from scum (i.e. Nisani). Curu's clearly mad over what happened in Ace's game (for which is completely understandable IMO, sinani went total derp and screwed us) and in this game it doesn't seem like sinani has really changed at all. Nisani's play throws a wrench in there because I lean scum on him and he was heavily involved in that business. On September 15 2011 08:47 Forumite wrote: When is the deadline? WBG, I understand that tnkted is a likely scum, but he won´t be lynched today. Your vote is wasted on tnkted, or worse, the reason we get a no-lynch. I'm prepared to switch my vote but I really don't think sinani is the best lynch. It looks like he has the best chance of getting lynched though. I'll be here to switch my vote as necessary. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 15 2011 08:55 Jackal58 wrote: Sinani and Nisani are linked at the hip. You have both of them on your watch list. We have 2 or a little more than hours left. We are currently headed towards a non lynch. And you want to switch it? And if you and Curu continue to call every swinging dick in the game names with every post I'm gonna opt out of every game you guys join. If you get this emotionally vested into a text based forum game I would suggest some counseling. sorry, I am at least just frustrated with (what I feel) is a strong dose of town incompetence lately. In Ace's game I felt that no one was thinking straight and here too I think we've already started out really badly. I also don't think Sinani and Nisani are linked. There is nothing to suggest that any of those 3 (curu, nisani, nor sinani) are linked unless all three are scum. They're on my watchlist because any 3 of them could be scum, and there's no real way to tell which ones actually are (or if any of them are) If sinani flips scum the possibility of all 3 of them being scum would exist, but if he flips town anything goes. There's no way to tell IMO. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I think we should evaluate each of the three like we would any other player, on their own merits. If sinani becomes the lynch today we'll find out enough information to determine whether we should try pursuing a link or not. Think about it, if sinani flips town I don't think we'll really gain anything with respect to those other two. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 15 2011 08:47 Forumite wrote: When is the deadline? WBG, I understand that tnkted is a likely scum, but he won´t be lynched today. Your vote is wasted on tnkted, or worse, the reason we get a no-lynch. Oops, I just noticed we only have 6 votes on Sinani. I thought we had 7. ##unvote tnkted ##vote sinani206 I've kept my vote on tnkted because I don't think sinani would be bandwagoned so fast if he was scum. We also still have 2 hours left in the day so I don't think it's a huge deal anyway. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On September 15 2011 09:13 Jackal58 wrote: No matter how he flips we have info from the voting. Do you mean information about a link to Nisani, or information in general? I'd agree with the second (any lynch will give us some information) but I disagree with the first. | ||
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