EPTSome Mafia Game
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P.S. Ace letting me in and doubting WBG ^^ | ||
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For soft-defending fellow mafia. | ||
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JeeJee though. His analysis of the 'cut the crap' bit. GGQ is so obviously trying to look like a "no screwing around" type of player and talking like this is part of his tough image. Yet JeeJee is trying to twist this into being emotional and crumbling under pressure. Fake, pompous - yes. But GGQ was acting like this before the accusation. He used the same tone to reply to me when he didn't have to defend himself because I accused JeeJee and Bumatlarge. I find it suspicious that a good player such as JeeJee doesn't notice such things, especially when there was less than one page to analyse. On September 08 2011 08:04 sandroba wrote: xfttfc whose behaviour day1 is 100% different than mafia xliv. If by that you mean that I'm not showing any signs of protecting mafia as a medic this game, then yes, my behaviour is 100% different. I am wiser now, having played one game is better than having played no games at all.  On a serious note, the problem with your argument is that I got into trouble in XLIV precisely because of the very same behaviour: accusing four players in no time. The only thing you can read in this is that I'm a bad player but this is something we all know. Anyway, it is easy to be active if you're mafia at this point, which means that being quiet becomes just as easy. The sooner the arbitrary one-line accusations transition into something better structured, the better - and if it takes a cocky quasi-trollish post that annoys some townies, well, it's worth it anyway. | ||
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On September 08 2011 10:17 GGQ wrote: Calling my posting 'fake' is a pretty serious accusation, bro. What makes you think I'm being fake? Examples and explanation, please. Okay, now you're getting emotional - or even hypocritical. First you say that your post about JeeJee was not an accusation, and then you regard what I wrote as one? Not cool. I see no problem with calling things the way they are. Everyone gets a bit in character and has some agenda on his mind. Implying that just because I consider your (or anyone's) behaviour part of your overall gameplan means that I am accusing you of something is dangerous. Town players can and often do have an agenda that is not immediately obvious. Your post reads to me as if you have a problem with this. Do you? * * * On September 09 2011 07:57 Zona wrote: The "I did it because I'm a bad player" is the worst excuse possible. If you realized that your multiple accusations very early in XLIV didn't work out well for you, why did you do it again? I'm also surprised you're not claiming that you were joking. Sandroba claimed that my motives are different this time, which is what I pointed out as incorrect. In XLIV I tried using gimmicky play as an attempt to put more pressure on BrownBear but it backfired, while here I did some trolling to get things going when the game was really quiet. I only mentioned my newbishness because Sandroba obviously sees me as someone he can easily pressure into making a mistake. And I did explain that I wasn't serious with my mafia list. * * * Palmar. He opened the same way in XLIV, which resulted in some good leads but also ruined town discussion and made it easier for mafia to blend. Afterwards he acknowledged his mistake and said he'll be better next time. This is next time and he's doing exactly the same. Some quotes from Day 1 from both games: + Show Spoiler + From XLIV: On September 07 2011 17:54 Palmar wrote: ##Vote: Chaos13 For being always wrong. From this game: On August 19 2011 11:39 Palmar wrote: must suck for dropbear to roll scum so often. From XLIV: On August 21 2011 02:26 Palmar wrote: chances of sevryn flipping scum: ~0.2% From this game: On September 09 2011 09:34 Palmar wrote: I said GGQ was less bad a lynch, but that's because iGrok has like ~5% chance of flipping scum. But I'm fine with killing you, or TAA. From XLIV (later, when we had serious targets): On August 21 2011 01:12 Palmar wrote: I do still think hanging DropBear is a good idea. From this game: On September 08 2011 19:06 Palmar wrote: Actually, I still like chaos13 as scum. etc. Palmar, in case you are not aware of this, your meta doesn't help you in this case - you have actually made yourself a strong lynch candidate. Also, herp + Show Spoiler + On September 08 2011 19:06 Palmar wrote: I don't know about GGQ, the rest are just derp votes. On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote: GGQ is by far the better alternative. On September 09 2011 09:06 Palmar wrote: I'm gonna re-read ggq's posts, iGrok is almost definitely town, so if it comes to it I'll rather support a ggq lynch On September 09 2011 09:27 Palmar wrote: I actually like him better than GGQ, and iGrok is almost definitely not scum. On September 09 2011 09:34 Palmar wrote: I said GGQ was less bad a lynch, but that's because iGrok has like ~5% chance of flipping scum. * * * An update on JeeJee. After being called out for failing to notice obvious things, he decided to stop posting anything related to the game and graces the thread with: On September 08 2011 12:12 JeeJee wrote: This game is off to a wonderful day. Bada-bapaba. I'm lovin' it. and On September 09 2011 07:21 JeeJee wrote: ?? * * * And, finally, our three lynch candidates. I don't like iGrok for lynch for the same reason as GGQ: he is putting himself out there from the very beginning. Not as much as GGQ but sitll quite a lot. Out of the three realistic lynch targets, TheAwesomeAll is the one who hasn't done anything of value. Also, his vote on Mig looks like an attempt to play down his previous vote (he voted for Bumatlarge in the same post in which he said that iGrok is sounds like mafia the most). What better way to draw attention away from making a second vote for someone who is by no means a serious candidate by making a third one? Throwing away votes in such fashion can be acceptible at the beginning of the game but not when we are actually having a proper discussion. TAA has this "bad town" vibe around him but bad townies get themselves in trouble by posting something with faulty reasoning, while he is simply trying to make himself look like a troll. unvote vote: TheAwesomeAll | ||
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##vote: TheAwesomeAll | ||
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On September 09 2011 11:43 Curu wrote: xtfftc's post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261732¤tpage=13#250 Full of contradictions. He is pressing Palmar for calling GGQ a bad lynch, then goes and calls GGQ a bad lynch in the very next paragraph of the same post. Also the hedging of his vote by calling TAA possible "bad Town." I'm pressing Palmar because his meta doesn't match big time. It doesn't matter what he is saying (GGQ not mafia, iGrok not mafia, etc.) but his overall behaviour. | ||
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On September 11 2011 01:15 Curu wrote: DERP. Let's kill Mig. ##Vote Mig Nah, let's lynch you tonight. ^^ I really enjoyed reading your list, especially the parts that make no sense whatsoever. Why mix the suspicious ones with others just for the sake of having a long list of names?Take these two, for example: On September 11 2011 00:10 Curu wrote: iGrok, quick jump onto TAA, cites a reason as TAA attacked someone for defending himself, doesn't mention sandroba for attacking iGrok himself for pretty much the same reason. On September 11 2011 00:10 Curu wrote: bumatlarge, likes both iGrok and GGQ lynches, then switches gears into TAA and liking Mig/Palmar instead. Bumatlarge is suspicious for mentioning people (Palmar, Mig) who were not major lynch candidates and iGrok for not mentioning someone who is a major lynch candidate (Sandroba)? Drawing conclusions out of these votes alone is not proper town play. Not to mention that iGrok actually explained why he didn't like GGQ as a lynch, so it only made sense for his vote to go to TAA. Or this: On September 11 2011 00:10 Curu wrote: xtfftc, attacks Palmar for saying he likes TAA as a lynch better than GGQ, then turns around and says the exact same thing that he likes TAA as a lynch better than GGQ or iGrok. Basically attacks Palmar for something he showed in his post that he agreed with. I already pointed out that Curu is just making stuff up but he didn't bother replying to me. If anyone is interested, here is my post: On September 09 2011 10:22 xtfftc wrote: Palmar. He opened the same way in XLIV, which resulted in some good leads but also ruined town discussion and made it easier for mafia to blend. Afterwards he acknowledged his mistake and said he'll be better next time. This is next time and he's doing exactly the same. Some quotes from Day 1 from both games: + Show Spoiler + From XLIV: On September 07 2011 17:54 Palmar wrote: ##Vote: Chaos13 For being always wrong. From this game: On August 19 2011 11:39 Palmar wrote: must suck for dropbear to roll scum so often. From XLIV: On August 21 2011 02:26 Palmar wrote: chances of sevryn flipping scum: ~0.2% From this game: On September 09 2011 09:34 Palmar wrote: I said GGQ was less bad a lynch, but that's because iGrok has like ~5% chance of flipping scum. But I'm fine with killing you, or TAA. From XLIV (later, when we had serious targets): On August 21 2011 01:12 Palmar wrote: I do still think hanging DropBear is a good idea. From this game: On September 08 2011 19:06 Palmar wrote: Actually, I still like chaos13 as scum. etc. Palmar, in case you are not aware of this, your meta doesn't help you in this case - you have actually made yourself a strong lynch candidate. Also, herp + Show Spoiler + On September 08 2011 19:06 Palmar wrote: I don't know about GGQ, the rest are just derp votes. On September 09 2011 05:51 Palmar wrote: GGQ is by far the better alternative. On September 09 2011 09:06 Palmar wrote: I'm gonna re-read ggq's posts, iGrok is almost definitely town, so if it comes to it I'll rather support a ggq lynch On September 09 2011 09:27 Palmar wrote: I actually like him better than GGQ, and iGrok is almost definitely not scum. On September 09 2011 09:34 Palmar wrote: I said GGQ was less bad a lynch, but that's because iGrok has like ~5% chance of flipping scum. And here is Curu's reply: On September 09 2011 11:43 Curu wrote: xtfftc's post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261732¤tpage=13#250 Full of contradictions. He is pressing Palmar for calling GGQ a bad lynch, then goes and calls GGQ a bad lynch in the very next paragraph of the same post. Also the hedging of his vote by calling TAA possible "bad Town." Anyone can see that I pressed Palmar for not following on his meta and for providing nothing constructive on GGQ. I don't see a town Curu twisting anyone's words in such a fashion and not responding when called out for it afterwards. Also, this bit: On September 09 2011 11:43 Curu wrote: I actually like TAA a lot less now because of both WBG and xtfftc. WBG has been centering on TAA as a major lynch candidate and asking us to consolidate votes on him while also trying to set me up in the case of TAA flipping Town. I have never seen him pull the stupid speculation of "if x flips Town then his accuser must be scum" in either of the games I was involved with him in. I have read and re-read WBG's posts about TAA a few times now and I don't see how describing someone as an "acceptable lynch" matches the way Curu presented things. Here's WBG's posts for the lazy: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=261732&user=60039¤tpage=All So, what Curu did was:
##Vote: Curu | ||
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On September 11 2011 13:58 wherebugsgo wrote: As Curu pointed out earlier Palmar promised to change his town play so he doesn't derp us all with his spamminess/trolling/tunneling. When did Curu remind us of Palmar's promise exactly? | ||
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I still think Palmar and Curu are mafia. :/ If I am correct with checking the votes, the three main candidates tonight are Sandroba, Sinani and Bum. Out of those, I have a "probably town" read on Bum and I don't like the way Curu has been cautiously backing the Bum lynch. And I'm getting more suspicious of WBG, who has also been pushing for Bum. Sinani is just wtf... I'd lynch him just for being a troll but the thing is that he's not really playing the game, so it's not like killing him would cause him any discomfort. The result of all this is a lynch candidate that I have no read on at all. So, I am most comfortable with lynching Sandroba but, just like Day 1, none of the three is a major suspect of mine. This post + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2011 02:52 sandroba wrote: Hey I'm actually not scum, I've just not been around home much for 2 days and thus had not the time to read the thread until now. Plenty of people are calling me scum and I think that's reasonable as I'm usually not this inactive as town. However the rest of the case against me is not true at all. I pressured iGrok day1 and then decided he was unlikely to be scum and thus not voted for him. TAA was making no sense at all in his posts and I could see no townie motivations for posting like that, so that's why I voted him. ##vote: xfttfc I'm feeling like shit right now because I'm extremelly hung over. You guys should actually be looking at whoever failed to call me scum or did so in an unsure fashion. Maybe I was wrong about GGQ being town day1, because now that the pressure is not on him he is not posting anymore. And yeah zona and bayonet are prob town. Don't lynch me today, I'll flip town. And I will do a lot of work the next day if left alive (by both mafia and town lol), I promisse. Today my head fucking hurts too much and reading this has been a pain. I'll check the thread again in half an hour before going to bed. P.S. + Show Spoiler + Although I am becoming more suspicious of WBG, his slip is not incriminating at all if you ask me. Personally I assumed that mafia have players/2 KPs. I wasn't considering this as the likely situation - I thought of it as a fact and could have wrote the same thing as WBG easily. | ||
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unvote ##Vote: Sinani | ||
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I'll go through the posts of those who were quite active on Day 1 but have switched to lurking since. | ||
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Palmar, I don't understand why you'd repeatedly accuse me of "hardcore" lurking. I may not have a high post count in this thread but a lot of my posts could have easily been cut into smaller pieces to make me appear more active. Others have been lurking much more than me. Is it possible that WBG jailed a mafia on the first night and this is why there was only one KP? I'll check his posts for breadcrumbs and I'd recommend everyone else to do the same. | ||
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But if Palmar's claim is fake it all fits. A lot of people are suspicious of him and now that Curu and WBG are dead and confirmed as townies, their repeatedly stated suspicions of Palmar might put him in the spotlight. So, he tries to achieve a mislynch that would probably win mafia the game. Moreover, he has been careful not to say too much in his analysis, so it's unlikely that he has incriminated fellow mafia and having him as confirmed red might not be too bad for them. And it's not like it's too big of a risk for him to get lynched. Claiming a DT would definitely attract additional attention to Palmar - as if there wasn't quite a lot already - but is unlikely to get him lynched immediately. He did not put himself in a situation that would lead to his lynch in case the information he gave us is wrong because he didn't give us any information whatsoever. What value does town get out of his claim? That there might be a framer or that perhaps Palmar is insane or that people got bussed. As if we didn't know that there's a ton of possibilities with this setup. So, maybe mafia framed WBG on Night 1 or Bum is mafia because he returned green - but we don't really know? Also, am I correct in assuming that a framed townie would return green to an insane DT? So perhaps Bum got framed...? Palmar is smart enough to consider the possible scenarios and realise that revealing his role would not help town. If he wanted protection, he could have claimed after the lynch. Also, his checks do not match his posts. He kept on defending Bum during Day 1 and checked him afterwards. Then he said he's "100% sure" on WBG being mafia before checking him. Let's say that Palmar is indeed a DT and was afraid of getting shot. Naturally, as soon as his role was revealed, everyone would start looking for breadcrumbs and see Palmar's "100%" as a proof that WBG is guilty. Although WBG sort of asked for this reply with his question (What chance do you give me of flipping scum?), so perhaps I'm reading too much into it. I'd appreciate other people's thoughts on both Palmar's claim and my reading of it. | ||
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On September 14 2011 02:31 bumatlarge wrote: Or it's pretty obvious that palmar is scum. You gave all the reasons yourself. Do you really think sandroba and I are scumbuddies rather then jackal and palmar? There's plenty of reasons. One of the main ones is that Sandroba has to do a lot today if he wants to avoid the lynch. If we reach a majority quickly, he might use the opportunity to stay relatively quiet for one more cycle. The fact that Sandroba and Palmar are arguing with each other doesn't prove that they are of opposing alignment. | ||
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On September 14 2011 02:57 sandroba wrote: Man please, just look at what palmar just said. He says that the most reasonable explanation is that he is sane and wbg got framed and shot. Palmar is not an idiot. He obviously has some agenda behind this and is scum. There is no way around it. That is undeniable proof he is scum. Can we please just lynch him. I'll let you guys lynch me if you want when we are no longer at lylo to clear things up if you guys really insist (meaning we must hit scum today and the next). On September 14 2011 03:05 sandroba wrote: I promissed I would help the next day if I was alive and I intend to keep it. I'm not scum. You can ask BC if I'm lying about ytd since I was playing with him and tnkted. The whole idea that I'm scum because I'm lurking is just ridiculous because that's not how I would play scum. I would just try to push w/e mislynch vigorously and try to look like my previous games as townie. The whole point of being scum is trying to avoid suspicion and that is clearly not what I'm doing. I really had real life issues the previous day and I was pretty sure I wasn't getting shot, since there was so much suspicion on me already, so I decided to play LoL ytd and have an easier job today since the night would certainly provide more info. Heck, I even tried to bait mafia into shooting me by saying I would dedicate a lot today to clear things up for town, but that unsurprisingly did not work. Your whole second post is basically an argument in favour of not lynching him now. | ||
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On September 14 2011 09:21 chaos13 wrote: Why are mafia not hammering this shut? Two possible scenarios 1. Palmar is scum 2. One or both of sand/bum is scum I'm more inclined to believe option two is the correct one, since I don't understand Palmar's claim from a mafia perspective. And if Palmar's and Jackal's claims are true, then bumatlarge is scum for sure. ##unvote ##vote bumatlarge why do you prefer to lynch bum rather than sandroba? | ||
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##Vote: Sandroba | ||
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On September 15 2011 03:52 Jackal58 wrote: There were two votes on Palmar. If either were from a townie scum would have hammered him. The very same applies to Palmar (although in both cases mafia need two townies to lynch someone instead of one). | ||
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##Vote: Palmar I believe Mig and Chaos13 deserve a closer look afterwards. | ||
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On September 16 2011 19:23 Jackal58 wrote: Fuck you Palmar. My brain has fallen out and is rolling around on the floor. I checked xtfftc and he came back as same. I have no idea what that makes him. WBG came back as same and he was town. ##VOTE: Palmar It makes me more of a baller than Sandroba ^^ Nice try anyway. | ||
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On September 17 2011 09:54 Mig wrote:\ How was anyone supposed to have a real town read on you?  On September 17 2011 15:04 Jackal58 wrote: Mig is scum. One of GGQ or Sandroba is SK. Is Palmar coaching you? | ||
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