Cosmic Horror Mafia

On August 24 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:
I have discarded my win condition, my sole object this game will be to convince Jackal I'm town, seeing as it's a feat I've never achieved.

On August 24 2011 00:55 Palmar wrote:


derp.

On August 24 2011 01:04 Palmar wrote:


stop reading things you want to read.

On August 24 2011 02:57 Erandorr wrote:
Thing is , how easy is it for ANYONE to claim psychologist and be untouched unlessthe true psychologist comes forward and then stuff will just get messy?

On August 24 2011 05:47 Jackal58 wrote:
Who are you Smurfing for Ferryman?

On August 24 2011 00:20 Navillus wrote:
Dammit I need to role something more interesting than townie one of these days... anyway, I've never played a mini before so I'm very open to any mini-specific advice anyone has.

On August 24 2011 00:29 Palmar wrote:
I have discarded my win condition, my sole object this game will be to convince Jackal I'm town, seeing as it's a feat I've never achieved.

On August 24 2011 01:12 Palmar wrote:
Right.

This is not what happened. My win condition is to eliminate all threats to town. I did not slip, you're trying to manufacture evidence out of something that doesn't exist. My joke can't even be shrugged off as bad town play because nothing exists in it that would indicate I'm not town.

On August 24 2011 01:29 Navillus wrote:
##Vote: Jackal58

OMGUS

On August 24 2011 21:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
While I still think Ferryman is the horror from my arguement on the bottom of the last page, it makes more sense to go mafia hunting instead, so:

##Unvote

##Vote: Tnkted

He mentioned something about a newbie mistake as coverup for Navillus, but that would be a newbie mistake for someone playing mafia more so than someone on town.

On August 24 2011 01:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
We have no investigative roles, the way I see it our best chance is to vote for people from the get-go
That said

##Vote: Navillus

Because he was the first person to talk about being a townie.

On August 24 2011 01:52 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Wait, on second thought I'm going to

##Unvote

##Vote: Navillus Palmar

If he feels the need to convince Jackal he's a townie, I think it's more likely that he's not actually a townie.

On August 24 2011 21:19 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I find it strange that Tnkted found more reason to vote for Palmar than Navillus, and in fact let Navillus' whole first post slide.
Am I alone here?

On August 24 2011 21:51 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
While I still think Ferryman is the horror from my arguement on the bottom of the last page, it makes more sense to go mafia hunting instead, so:

##Unvote

##Vote: Tnkted

He mentioned something about a newbie mistake as coverup for Navillus, but that would be a newbie mistake for someone playing mafia more so than someone on town.

I never actually believed Palmar was anti-town, but there was an arguement against him and I didn't want to not lynch, so
##Unvote

On August 25 2011 08:42 Cyber_Cheese wrote:


At the moment, my views hinge on two important people
1) If MrWiggles turns out not to be the eldritch, then I believe Ferryman to be the eldritch himself. On the off-chance Wiggles isn't the eldritch, then I believe Ferryman to be town, based off various arguments that Ferryman has made against wiggles.
2) If Tnkted is mafia, I believe Navillus to also be mafia because Tnkted chose to ignore what Navillus said at the start of day 1 about being a townie, before looking a few posts further and voting Palmar based off his joke, this would also make Palmar innocent in my eyes. Again, this is perfectly inversed.

On August 25 2011 12:07 chaos13 wrote:
tnkted




To begin with, we have him attacking an apparent scum slip by Palmar. Anyone with eyes can see that his slip was intended as a joke post, but apparently that's worth a vote.

This was a joke pressure anyway, to which palmar responded scummilly.



...and a crumb is worth an unvote.




And then a realization that it could have been a faked crumb is worth voting again.



Here is where tnkted really begins to show his scumminess. The first paragraph can be ignored. Paragraph #2 contains a multitude of mafia traits. To begin with, he agrees with Ferryman's position, but still feels that Palmar is a better lynch. Why? Because Wiggles is tough to get a read on. This is a cautious wishy-washy stance. He allows an excuse for being wrong, and is stuck on tunnel-mode on Palmar, because that is a perfect cover for mafia to hide under.
Paragraph 3\ABC

I bolded and underlined the biggest reason, which you simply skimmed over. Wiggles being tough to get a read on isn't why palmar is a better lynch, but it IS why I'm not swayed by his analysis. Your arguements here are extremely misleading.

Par. 3 supports the wishy-washy scum stance seen earlier. The ABC's display a terribly weak case against Palmar. He states that Palmar's response to being accused was very scummy, but fails to explain how. Even a general statement of how it was scummy would be better, but there is absolutely nothing here. Then back to the "slip", and finally closing with a careless attitude towards lynching town. We should never want to lynch town. Day 1 is just as or more important than any other day, because if we can lessen their numbers now, they have fewer kills on N1 and beyond.

I responded to the underlined portion THE VERY NEXT POST YOU QUOTE. Did you not reread this post before you posted it?




So according to tnkted his vote on Palmar was a joke, and he didn't think it was actually a slip. He states that Palmar actually defending himself was scummy because a player like Navillus was relaxed and joked around, because the vote on him wasn't serious. Comparing these two gives a solid impression that tnkted's vote on Palmar was not intended to be serious, which means that only Palmar's reaction to it should have been used as evidence. As can be seen by the previous post I quoted, however, tnkted is still using it as proof that Palmar is mafia, still considering it a scum slip. That's a rather large hole in his argument I'd say.

Try paraphrasing this sentance out loud. According to this thing he did previously, which he stopped, hes STILL doing the thing that he stopped doing. This sort of obvious logical error is a result of

1. poor reasoning
2. tunnelling, which, I remind you, you accused ME of doing above, calling it scummy behavior.




1. Nothing scummy about this content. Nothing town either.

I usually hate talking about 'town atmosphere' but there was talk about people 'taking responsibility' and constant wifoming. How is an attempt to remove that shit bad for town, especially in a game with so many new players?

2. In this section of his post, tnkted wants to remove responsibility from players for mislynches. That is a ridiculously scummy attitude. The people who pushed the lynch DO have to be responsible for it, otherwise mafia can get away with coming up with a case on a slightly scummy townie and get a mislynch every day, and according to you get away with it scot-free. If you're pushing for someone's lynch and they flip green, then you do get a bit scummier for it. If it happens consistently we really need to take a look at you and sort things out.

Would you want to see a townie policy lynched for promoting a bad lynch? Then we lose 2 and a day for a mislynch instead of 1. This seems like what you're promoting here, and it's an extremely scummy attitude. And yes, if the mafia can convince the town that someone innocent is guilty, then that person is going to get lynched and policy lynching the mafia the next day is just fucking stupid. THOUSANDS of games in my experience ended up with a townie tunnelling another townie, getting that townie lynched, while the surviver lasted until endgame. Ask any of the other vets here if policy lynching for a bad lynch is a good idea, they'll tell you exactly the same thing.

3. Wrong again. You want to take away the only tool we have for linking mafia to each other. When somebody flips red, or green for that matter, we look back at who they interacted with and how they interacted with them. You're pushing a seriously mafia agenda here. Responsibility is key in this game, because mafia without responsibility don't have to worry about anything.

So anyone the mafia defends is obviously scum eh? That seems like an easy loophole. If I'm mafia and I defended you, would you suddenly 'become' mafia?

You're misunderstanding how scum operate, which is very strange to me given that I've seen you play a few games. When I play as scum I make it a point to defend people who are being bandwagoned because it gains you town cred. Here's a fact for you: Town cred is the most important thing for the mafia; with town cred they can get away with anything, including acting scummy or dayvigging or shooting the town dt and claiming it.

In fact, to gain town cred, mafia will even sacrifice their own members to the mob. This is so common, theres a word for it: bussing. This alone should demolish your theory; If the mafia only protect other mafia, wouldn't the converse of that be true, that mafia only push townies for lynches?

The fact is, its exceedingly difficult to link mafia together; most mafia hunts end up being a person by person hunt. Two mafia are rarely linked together in a game like this that doesn't have dayroles or weird abilities. We'll have to find out each one individually by themselves. That's how mafia works.

tnkted is mafia.

On August 28 2011 03:23 JeeJee wrote:



surely you're not serious. look hard enough and i'm sure you can find something like this in anyone's posts if they post enough.
major fos on both tnkted and wiggles for just jumping on this without thinking it's simply a coincidence.

On August 28 2011 09:49 JeeJee wrote:
wow not a single person has a brain
fine lynch me
##vote jeejee

oh boy, we're way past majority only 9 hours into this day!

On August 28 2011 20:36 Forumite wrote:
I disagree with Cyber about both Ferryman and Tnkted.

Tnkted pushed on Palmar in response to one weird post by him, it didn´t really have any weight behind it.

On August 28 2011 23:02 chaos13 wrote:
Warning - Wall of text on JeeJee.



If anyone needs more evidence that JeeJee is scum, here it is. He's discouraging mafia hunting and simultaneously puts on a show of mafia hunting. Since EA is a standalone third party role (doesn't know any other role/alignments, no other role alignments know EA) the only way that Cyber could be distancing himself from Ferryman is if they are mafia together. Just one sentence before he discourages people trying to find mafia, saying that apparently it's better to find the EA.


And now a summary of his interactions with players. Quotes are in spoilers so this post is actually readable.

Slight attack of sevryn for a pro-EA plan.

+ Show Spoiler +

Post #1- Attacking Cyber_Cheese for pushing a plan that has already been explained (by JeeJee) to be pro-EA. Pushes pretty hard against this guy but doesn't vote him.

Post #2- Quizzing Cyber_Cheese a bit, but not attacking him anymore. Just requesting more information. Points out Errandor's inactive playstyle.

Post #3- Pushes Cyber even harder, even to the point of voting for him. No new information came up between his earlier posts and this one. The only difference is that other players were starting to pick up steam on Cyber, voting for him and accusing him. This means it was safe for a mafia to hop on the bandwagon he started.

+ Show Spoiler +


He attacks Cyber more in his next post or two, until Cyber reworks his plan. Remember that JeeJee's only explanation for voting Cyber was based on the scumminess of the earlier plans. Note the lack of an unvote here, and that he still tunnels Cyber, asking for more of his thoughts.

+ Show Spoiler +


Next bit is not spoilered because these posts really need to be read.

This is where things get really interesting. Previous to this he has ignored almost everything else that's going on to focus on Cyber. He completely ignored the Wiggles/Ferryman situation, the chaos/tnkted sitiuation, and Palmar's craziness. Something about this set him off, however.







Something about Jackal touching on the subject of sevryn/tnkted makes JeeJee feel the need to jump to their defense. sevryn's defense specifically. Note that he said "How is sevryn remotely related to tnkted?", not "How is tnkted related to sevryn?"

My questions at this point
1) Why is it a bad thing for sevryn to be related to tnkted?
2) Why does JeeJee feel the need to defend sevryn from Jackal?

Question 2 has a simple answer. Question 1 is a little more confusing.

JeeJee has had some interactions with sevryn, but nothing telling. The only thing notable about them is that he's very sparing in interacting with people. It was just Cyber until Jackal came in with this, and one post exchanged with sevryn at the very beginning of the game.

+ Show Spoiler +

This next one is more interacting with sevryn, and is also the post he claimed mafia in. It's content has been ignored so far because we've all been focused on the crumb. Take a second look at it.




What stands out to you? Who died last night?

Here he throws out some information and suspicions that he hasn't come close to mentioning before. Apparently Palmar is the EA, for reasons he fails to explain, and Wiggles his second option, again with a failure to explain. But if they killed him last night, why would he want the psych to check Palmar? The options I can see are
1) Mafia want to take out the EA so they aren't targeted, and gain town cred. JeeJee/scum team thinks Palmar is EA.
2) Mafia want town to derp and keep EA alive, JeeJee/scum team thinks Palmar is not EA.

Maybe someone with a more devious mind can work this one out. Maybe it's just wifom. I've pointed it out and can't quite figure it out.

It's after this that Jackal points out the crumb and JeeJee goes into "Oh shit that was stupid" mode.


I would like to go back to the two questions I had about sevryn, tnkted, and JeeJee. For reference those were

1) Why is it a bad thing for sevryn to be related to tnkted?
2) Why does JeeJee feel the need to defend sevryn from Jackal?

The simple answer to question 2 is -

*drumroll*

sevryn is JeeJee's scumbuddy.

So back to 1) Why is it a bad thing for sevryn to be related to tnkted?

Well we have to remember, tnkt was getting a lot of suspicion yesterday, and a lot of votes. It seemed likely that he would be lynched. The only sort of lynch it would be bad to be connected to is a red one. A mafia will never want to be connected to another mafia lynch, except to push it as hard as they can.

My guess at mafia team right now.
JeeJee
sevryn
tnkted

Of these three, my thoughts have changed since yesterday and I am least sure of tnkted. I also have to examine sevryn's posts more thoroughly, but there is a clear connection between him and JeeJee.

On August 28 2011 23:08 chaos13 wrote:


So if it was only the response, why were you still using his "slip" as evidence? You clearly stated that one of the things that made you suspicious of him was his slip. The proof is in your posts and your refusal to address this point doesn't give me a good feeling about you.

On August 28 2011 23:19 chaos13 wrote:
In your VERY NEXT POST you also don't state that the slip is not valid evidence. You simply omit it from that post.

On August 30 2011 02:39 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Psychologist visit Jackal.

If Jackal is the Psychologist, visit Chaos13.

On August 30 2011 07:56 chaos13 wrote:



Explain to me how our psych visiting him is good. It doesn't kill the EA, it doesn't remove him from the game, it doesn't take away his power, and we have no way of knowing for sure if the psych actually visited who everyone voted for. It gets us a dead townie. Instead, they should visit who they think was most likely targeted last night.

On August 31 2011 03:29 Jackal58 wrote:

Unless you are either the EA or the Psychologist you cannot make that claim. No matter how true it is you possess no knowledge of who the Psychologist visited unless you are him. The other option is you are the EA.

On September 01 2011 23:52 Forumite wrote:
Wiggles has defended himself, but tnkted is nowhere to be seen.

On September 02 2011 00:02 Forumite wrote:
Success!

Okay, this makes it very likely that tnkted is the last scum, it fits his voting pattern day 1, day 3, FoS from JeeJee, not to mention that the whole case against Wiggles was that both he and tnkted were scum, and that they forced a no-lynch to avoid lynching a co-scum.

On September 04 2011 22:53 Forumite wrote:
Townie? If tnkted was a Townie, why didn´t he get lynched the first day? Why did he act like a scum and just give up?