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I just realized that if redff and kenpachi will probably flip the same, and on balance considerations mafia is just 3 players, our three mafia are chaos/ON/bum.
TL;DR from my previous post,
Chaos is scummy because of him shying away from attention, particularly yesterday when votes were put on him.
ON is scummy because he was definitely around during the daypost/right before but he hasn't posted anything, and he didn't change his vote off kenpachi.
Bum is scummy because he narrowly avoided lynch and sandroba claimed RB, meaning he was probably saved by the roleblocker.
Lynch two of them.
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On September 03 2011 23:37 Palmar wrote: Btw, Ace, if you post like whatever you think and know about the game right now, and if you happen to be town, we can probably piece the rest of this together.
I think WGB/Sandroba/redFF/Myself/jcarl are town
I think Kenpachi/Ace/chaos13 are null reads
I think ON/Bum are scum
Thing is, ON/Bum both pressured Kenpachi yesterday, which reduces the chances of him being scum, so if I'm correct it's down to Ace or chaos for scum.
Let's do it.
This is a very good post.
If we lynch ON/bum today and Ace lives to tomorrow, we should probably lynch Ace/chaos.
I wouldn't rule out kenpachi being scum, though. It's still possible, though I guess I give that a pretty small chance because I think redff and kenpachi are probably both town. They just aren't thinking very well.
So, let's leave chaos till tomorrow and lynch bum/ON?
##unvote ##vote OriginalName
I suggest you guys go back and look at OriginalName's posts right near the daypost. Look at his reasoning. I voted this guy yesterday and no one listened, maybe I should actually stick to my reads for once and go with this guy.
Chaos, I think you might possibly be town, but you need to defend yourself or I'll be voting you tomorrow.
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Vote situation right now:
Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar
Voting OriginalName redFF wherebugsgo
Voting redFF Ace
Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi
towntells of chaos: 1. Voted me with actual reasons, and put effort in 2. seems to want a good town atmosphere
nulltells of chaos: 1. uses shitty reasoning
mafiatells of chaos: 1. doesn't want attention
Conclusion: idfk anymore
towntells of Ace: 1. Uhh...nothing
nulltells of Ace: 1. trolling
mafiatells of Ace: 1. no contribution 2. no attempt at unifying town 3. no attempt to substantiate any of his votes 4. is being purposely difficult to read 5. fishes for coroner after daypost
Conclusion: YO ACE, howya doin? Likin that QT of yours? Come out and contribute, damn it.
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Oops I messed that up. Let me redo that:
Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar
Voting OriginalName redFF wherebugsgo bumatlarge
Voting redFF Ace
Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi
I forgot bum voted ON. Oh BTW point of my voting situation was to show that votes are really split right now and that helps mafia. We need people to vote bum/ON. 8 people have voted already and the two who haven't are jcarl, ON. jcarl needs to vote for bum and ON will probably throw his vote again.
If Ace doesn't switch to ON/bum then I think he's certainly mafia.
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Finally I might add that chaos and kenpachi, you guys also need to vote for bum/ON. If one of you is pious and you don't switch, I'll get lynched.
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On September 04 2011 05:48 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 05:43 OriginalName wrote:On September 04 2011 05:20 redFF wrote: btw if it isnt obvious i kinda took a step back today because my 2 scummiest reads were both town lol. ##Vote RedFFNice reads bro. For the record I was right about how shitty those wagons are, and in case you guys havent noticed Kenpachi started lurking again after he got off the hook, however I doubt any of you guys are willing to try to lynch him. Reds totally not clear at all just pushes pushes pushes and does weird shit. Seems real shifty to me. Why should I think your townie anyways.
He's both.
I come up with voting situation in which 2 people have two votes, 1 person has three votes, and 1 person has one vote, and he comes and votes for the guy with one vote, effectively cementing the split vote situation that is so advantageous for mafia.
Lynch ON, he's trying to split our votes. We have 3/2/2/2 right now. We need 5/4 at least to guarantee two mafia kills.
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On September 04 2011 06:11 Kenpachi wrote: dunno man, i want to get rid of all 3 of the major lynches right now. i'll decide tmrw.
at the end of the day i can see Mafia using their KP on RedFF and Palmar. I will propose to you all to NOT revive Red immediately. Lets revive him later on or force Mafia to revive someone who is valuable to town. Another reason is Mafia's 3rd KP comes from the minion which acts as a free ressurection on blues. Think about it, the longer Red is dead, the more people die and when we really need him, we revive him and check everyone who died (assuming thats how his role works)
Wtf?
#1. There are FOUR people who have 3/2/2/2 votes, respectively.
#2. We have no idea who the minion targeted so there's no point in discussing that.
#3. You can't revive past the first day someone is dead, so lynching red is a terrible idea.
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What happens if 3 people are tied for votes?
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Red's claim is believable to me because he pushed sinani really hard and then said we should revive him. If he's actually mafia, fake claiming, we'll find out real soon (and also it doesn't make much sense from a mafia perspective to claim like that, at least not to me)
Focus on ON and bum right now. Both are rather scummy and there are great reasons to vote one of them. Plus, it consolidates our votes so that we're not worrying about potential townies getting lynched.
Kenpachi, chaos, and Ace, you guys need to vote one of ON/bum. We can't keep our votes split like this.
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On September 04 2011 09:18 Ace wrote:Good god you people are fucking stupid. Why are you asking everyone for their Town and Scum reads? Think past your ass for 5 minutes here. It's a no flip game, no information roles except ONE is revealed in the OP, and you aren't sure of the Mafia count. What the fuck is anyone's Town reads going to accomplish right now but to clutter the thread and lead to bullshit? Secondly telling everyone your town reads opens up to Scum manipulation. Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends. Stop doing it. Stop talking about "Town tells, Scum tells, and Null tells". Not one of you have a fucking clue how to use them. Makes my heard hurt reading posts by some moron trying to fit a square peg in a round hole while he has monkey shit on his face. Stop talking about the balance of the Scum team. You don't know how iGrok chose to pick teams, and even f you got an inkling it's not going to get you very far. Likewise, stop trying to say "if this guy is Scum the this one has to be". Are you dumb? We dont have any flips yet, and get them one at a time. You've got to be retarded to speculate on something that even in normal setups takes some voting wagons and post analysis to figure out. Now on to some real scum hunting since I left you jubjubs alone and see that you still suck like shit. Amazingly the ability to read and reason hasn't improved in 2 months. redFF's claim is probable. but not likely. I'm going to do this in TWO ways. Just follow sit back and take a seat, and dont drool on my chair. The main issue with redFF's claim is this: Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 10:32 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, checked varp and sinani both town ressurect sinani plz. Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day. Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 07:29 redFF wrote: i got both alignment and roles, revive sinani over varp.
i dont have any checks left tho, since im just a reserve coroner, not a full blown one. Back up roles never work like this, and this would be borderline criminal. First of all backup roles aren't used much because it penalizes the Scum team for performing well. The only instance of backup roles I ever see is when the Town success hinges on that one role. It is possible that there is a backup Coroner in the setup. But the backup role is always an exact copy of the original role - never more powerful.Check it out: Show nested quote +
Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm).
How is it that the back up Coroner can check 2 people while the original can only check one? This doesn't seem right. Secondly if you really are the backup Coroner tell us both people you checked out, the alignments and the roles. You haven't exactly revealed this information easily and this is a major reason why I don't believe you. Even assuming there is an imbalanced backup Coroner role like you said, this would mean you aren't actually thinking about how the game works. Check it: If you revealed the roles, at worst you'd let them be able to use their powers and get killed again. However, you just outed your own self as the back up Coroner. Just thinking things through for more than 10 seconds after seeing THREE people die wouldn't it make sense for you to show some restraint? Thats exactly why I posted this earlier: Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 09:42 Ace wrote: Coroner, I know you have a pretty tricky job to do but I'm going to help you out. Since you can't communicate with me I'll just give you a name:
Check the corpse of Sinani. If you dont say anything once the corpse is checked, I will take your silence as confirmation of Sinani's innocence. That way the priest can revive him knowing he is town aligned.
Otherwise take the chance and speak out if you find Sinani to be Scum. You could have just bandwagoned this point and made it a big priority. You wouldn't have had to out yourself, and the priest who should be reading the fucking thread would understand - Sinani is innocent because the Coroner never spoke out again him. Your actions just don't add up for an actual Coroner or Town aligned player that would be thinking for more than 2 minutes. I don't believe you could actually be this stupid (well, maybe) so I'm calling your claim bullshit. Show nested quote +
Varpulis has been killed (lynch). sinani206 has been killed (lynch). Drazerk has been killed. Jackal58 has been killed. Snkowman has been killed.
Of the people you checked, 2 died by lynch which above all else are Town influenced lynches. 3 people died by Night Kill which above all else are almost certainly Scum influenced. But you checked the people that were lynched. Bullshit.
LOL fucking finally.
God it's difficult to fish shit out of you, Ace. I guess I should keep posting about mafiatells/nulltells/towntells of you and you'll actually come out of the woodwork. Or wherever the hell you're hiding.
On September 04 2011 09:24 redFF wrote: lol... im a back up coroner, i have 2 checks, and i can use them both at any time. thats it.
On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day.
wat
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How many bodies can the coroner check per day?
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On September 04 2011 09:30 redFF wrote: ...yes?
You first said you have two checks per day.
Then you said you have only two checks.
Which one is it?
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On September 04 2011 09:31 Ace wrote: I can't take your claim seriously. The real Coroner would not Counter Claim in this situation because it's not LYLO so it would be dumb. A Real Cop doesn't CC Scum claiming Cop unless the Town is seriously buying it and will lynch a Townie. No one is getting lynched over your claim so the Coroner has no reason to Counter Claim. Or he's dead.
The circular reasoning this creates should suggest to you that we should keep this guy alive for now.
Bum and ON are definitely more scummy. Bum avoided lynch, has not really contributed anything, and sandroba claimed RB (when he was one of the players who voted bum).
ON threw his vote on Kenpachi and then purposely left it there while he was STILL AROUND at the end of the day. Now again he's still pursuing Kenpachi when it's clear he's definitely not going to get lynched today.
There's too much weird shit going on with red thanks to his shitty play that I'd rather leave him alive at least till tomorrow. With ON and Bum hopefully out of action tomorrow we can lynch red and someone else.
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On September 04 2011 09:38 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 09:36 wherebugsgo wrote:On September 04 2011 09:31 Ace wrote: I can't take your claim seriously. The real Coroner would not Counter Claim in this situation because it's not LYLO so it would be dumb. A Real Cop doesn't CC Scum claiming Cop unless the Town is seriously buying it and will lynch a Townie. No one is getting lynched over your claim so the Coroner has no reason to Counter Claim. Or he's dead.
The circular reasoning this creates should suggest to you that we should keep this guy alive for now. Bum and ON are definitely more scummy. Bum avoided lynch, has not really contributed anything, and sandroba claimed RB (when he was one of the players who voted bum). ON threw his vote on Kenpachi and then purposely left it there while he was STILL AROUND at the end of the day. Now again he's still pursuing Kenpachi when it's clear he's definitely not going to get lynched today. There's too much weird shit going on with red thanks to his shitty play that I'd rather leave him alive at least till tomorrow. With ON and Bum hopefully out of action tomorrow we can lynch red and someone else. meh shitty play doesn't get my 2 top scum suspects lynched day 1 while non of yours do, but keep standing at the sidelines and calling everybody terrible while you continually can't get anybody you want lynched.
Actually, you are playing horribly. If you actually read some of the stuff you post you'd know what I'm talking about.
Your top two scum suspects got lynched because they got bandwagonned, i.e the rest of the town was as dumb or dumber than you were yesterday.
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Plus, we're talking about the DEAD CORONER that you got lynched. Just think about that.
Either your claim is true and you played badly yesterday and are responsible for sinani's lynch, or your claim is fake. Just own up to it.
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On September 04 2011 09:42 redFF wrote: you only get lynched as town if your bad, not your attacker's fault you played scummy. meh ima go now, i've said everything ive needed to say.
It also takes some pretty dumb townies to then bandwagon a bad townie.
This is why I'm not voting you, because I genuinely think you're playing badly. At least by tomorrow we'll know for sure whether you're mafia or not, and whether we should take the claim seriously.
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BOOM.
Now I think Ace needs to come back and switch his vote off redFF.
Ace come in and weigh in on this revelation we have here!
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Oh oops ninjaed.
It is circular reasoning. redFF plays dumbly and makes a dumb claim, without thinking about the consequences that it could have, i.e. he dies in like two days.
Either he's mafia, or he's dumb. He made a dumb claim because he found no other way to communicate to our high priest that he should revive Sinani over reviving a night kill.
Does the HP take the risk that sinani is not the coroner, and revive someone else? We die even faster if that's the case, because after 48 hours a dead person becomes unrevivable.
A dumb townie won't find any way to communicate to us that sinani was coroner without outing himself.
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Hey, you're the one who said that it's the townie's fault for getting lynched. I'm just using your own logic to defend you. The only way you can't be mafia is if you're just playing dumbly. No offense.
Anyway, to clarify, I'm not necessarily saying redFF is certainly town. His alignment is up in the air. I just think it wouldn't be the greatest idea to split our votes like this when bum escaped lynch yesterday and ON is flying under the radar just by throwing votes on people.
On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 10:24 wherebugsgo wrote: BOOM.
Now I think Ace needs to come back and switch his vote off redFF.
Ace come in and weigh in on this revelation we have here! doesn't change anything. iGrok hasn't confirmed or denied anything about redFF's role. It still doesn't help explain why a backup role would out himself. No one can play this badly. I'm not buying it and my vote is staying where it is. Go talk to someone else because your wasting my time.
Yeah it does, it takes away some of the certainty of your accusation. Part of your feeling is based on the fact that you think the coroner can only check 1 person per day. If you're stuck on this part of the mechanics then you wouldn't be able to move on from there to accept that redFF could POSSIBLY be able to check two people in a day.
If red only has two checks, and he used both of them, I can see why he might want to claim, because he knows that, even alive, he isn't much use.
If we go another day without lynching ON/bum we might be in some trouble. Your vote on red is one of the things that is preventing us from getting a majority. I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with your vote, since I can understand where you're coming from. But there are still other possibilities you haven't seemed to explore and you really haven't weighed in on bum/ON at all.
On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote:HOWEVER, he is the BACKUP coroner right? That means he is the last one. Why the hell would he out himself just for Sinani when he just saw 3 people get Night Killed. He'll die by Day 3 and the Town will have no Coroners left. The game is essentially over at that point.
Think about this for more than 5 seconds.
He would do this because we don't have 5 high priests. Reviving the coroner is obviously the best option for a HP, not blindly reviving into the pool. If we know the coroner died then we need him to be revived the day after he dies, because after one cycle the coroner will be gone for good.
So, let's say redFF is legitimately the backup coroner or whatever, and what he's saying about having limited checks is true. Then, he gives the HP information about who to revive. He chose a very retarded way to do it (by outing himself) but he put the information out there nonetheless.
If you accept that redFF's claim is stupid and it'd get him killed if it was true, then why don't you lynch someone else today and let him eat a mafia bullet? If red is alive tomorrow then we can safely lynch him tomorrow! This is the primary reason I want to lynch ON and bum, because I have a very strong read on both of them and I think that, if red's claim is fake we can just lynch his ass tomorrow when he ends up dead.
On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: As for your bolded that doesn't even make any sense. Bum avoiding a lynch doesn't make him Scummy, and it has no relation to sandroba's alleged role block. Even if sandroba voted for Bum, assuming bum is Scum why would that give him cause to RB sandroba? That doesn't add up at all. Faulty logic there.
It's not faulty logic. The first person to get three people to vote on him was bum. Palmar, sandroba, and sinani all voted bum. He had those 3 votes until the daypost. Varpulis had like 1 vote at the time bum had 3, and sinani got 3 sometime after as well.
If I remember correctly, if we just base this solely on how the votes panned out, the ONLY way that bum would've survived WITHOUT a roleblock is if there was a pious voter on both sinani AND varpulis. I find this highly unlikely.
Sandroba's roleblock claim has not been counterclaimed. This suggests we should take it seriously. If he was roleblocked, his vote didn't count. This means that bum would've had only 2 votes on him, and Varp and sinani both had 3 or 4 (depending on pious)=varp and sinani got lynched.
Remember that in the case of a tie, the first person to achieve that number of votes will die. Bum was the first of all 3 to achieve 3 votes. Thus, it's HIGHLY unlikely he escaped lynch by luck alone.
On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: Your second point also makes no sense. Most votes wins, not majority. ON leaving his vote anywhere when there are low vote counts to die and a role that has double voting power means this tells you nothing unless Kenpachi dies by low vote count.
Again, we don't know who's pious, and who's not. In the current situation, we have this:
Person A with 3 (+/-1) votes. Person B with 2 (+/-1) votes. Person C with 2 (+/-1) votes. Person D with 2 (+/-1) votes.
We should EXPECT Persons A and B to get lynched. Let's say Person B is mafia. Then, mafia roleblocks one voter on person B and then A+C die.
Why is this important? Well, if we have 5/4 votes on persons A and B, there's no way that mafia can fuck with our votes. This is why ON throwing his vote on kenpachi/red in this case, when Person D had 1 vote, is really scummy. This prevents persons A and B from actually getting enough votes to be lynchable even with roleblock.
On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: If red is playing like shit (very high possibility) and weird stuff is going on it makes sense to lynch him. An unconfirmed claim that is an automatic game over if he dies? Why are you even thinking about bum and ON?
No, again, it doesn't make sense to lynch him today. It makes sense to lynch him tomorrow, because if he's actually the reserve coroner then we're wasting a lynch on him. If we leave him alive then we force the mafia to deal with him until at least tomorrow.
As you say, if it's automatic game over if he dies, and he's clearly playing like shit, then why lynch him?
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