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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 05:27 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 14:40 Foolishness wrote:
It's because I'm not sure what to make of the night events. I got roleblocked and shot. That's not something most people would do. Either way you got some pretty damning evidence against Mig there.
##Vote Mig Foolish, I'm concerned about your vote here. If you're not sure what to make of a night's events, why in the hell would you vote for someone that is in your opinion involved? I reread Mig's posts (like you, it was short reading) and he hasn't done anything overtly scummy so far...there are a LOT of scummy targets out here, why Mig? Everyone is voting based on YOUR logic, I'd like you to state ALL of the reasons you think Mig is the best lynch if you please.
On the contrary, chaoser's the one that found the contradiction. I started the campaign against Mig yesterday, and chaoser was the only one who also voted for him on day 1 (and one of the few to actually comment about it). It only makes sense that we continue the campaign today since Mig hasn't done much to prove himself an ally to the town.
And I am building a good case against him; you can expect more later in the day.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:14 Jackal58 wrote:
Dammit.
Why did you slam a vote onto Sevryn when it was obvious there was a very good possibility the vote may have been shifted off of a person that appeared to be a townie getting mislynched?
Don't forget that Mig did this as well.
Let's say Rayzor is mafia. Does it make sense for one of Mig or Vain to be mafia? Yes because their votes ensured that the vote switch wouldn't happen. Does it make sense for both of them to be mafia? No because mafia wouldn't out two of their members just like that.
You obviously know who I think is mafia. Vain's posting may not be the most optimal, but he writes stuff like this:
On August 23 2011 04:22 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 04:13 supersoft wrote:
i'd prefer vain but let's do it.
##Vote: xtfftc wtf, you prefer me but lets just go for xtffc. Sounds logic. Now when its not xtffc you can always say"oh jeah i liked vain better" very convenient
That's totally a townie talking there. Not afraid to voice his opinion or yell at someone. I'm not totally sold that he's townie, it's just Mig looks a lot better for lynching now. Not to mention if Vain flips green we'll be back at square one. If Mig flips green we can look at who jumped on his case after Chaoser's initial vote today.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
hiro is acting like cocky-ass scum this game, and I think he's hiding behind his meta. He doesn't usually play like this when scum (he doesn't often play scum at all actually)...one of his only games I've played with him though he was the lurky lacky of Palmar, in the game he referenced at the BEGINNING of the game, establishing his meta. I don't like it. Hiro takes the lead of second-runner-ups-to-Palmar-on-my-scum-list.
Wait a minute, you said that me using meta in my arguments was pointless and (for the most part) rampant speculation. But now you're voting for Hiro based on meta?
WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS WORLD
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I just lol'd at your post hiro
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:48 Curu wrote:
Foolishness is scum because he's not trolling.
afk
NOBODY CARES
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 06:58 Curu wrote:
Seriously where are you Mig? Yeah I can understand that you're pissed at Personality, I'm pretty put off too, but if you're Town help us win this game.
If you're scum, feel free to continue.
You were in DrH's experimental game with Mig. Does anything about his behavior this game resemble that game?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 08:37 Palmar wrote:
I still think we should lynch brownbear.
All in due time my friend...all in due time
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Mig, may I take your accusation of DropBear to me that you think xtfftc is townie?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 10:52 Mig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 10:46 Foolishness wrote:
Mig, may I take your accusation of DropBear to me that you think xtfftc is townie? hm no why? Is there a connection I have missed between them?
Errr no, it's just because xtfftc seems to be a big candidate for lynch (I'm still not entirely sure how his attitude is scummy) so I thought you would vote for him just in case everyone wanted to kill you.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 09:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Foolishness, hiro protagonist, Palmar, xtfftc.
BOOM Headshot.
Discuss.
Heading by the policy known as "VisceraEyes's mafia list is always wrong" we can safely say we have 4 confirmed townies now.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Man I don't want to have to defend xtfftc I hope he comes back soon
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 11:45 Curu wrote:
Yes. Your post is excellent and needs love, but I still feel more strongly about xtfftc, especially given the timing of the two wagons. Your post did prod me to consider DB in a new light, and I encourage everyone to read the case and do the same, but I'm still leaning harder scum on xtfftc.
Hey chaoser, got any RELEVANT things to say? You know, about the people in this game. You still think your vote should lie on Mig?
Mig has a blatant contradiction in his posts. I'm sure he's going to requote that in one of his coming posts. xtfftc has no contradictions, and is a very classic example of a "dumb townie" (no offense to him). I do not feel like he is pushing an agenda in any of his posts.
Since it's his first mafia game I cannot compare past behavior, but Mig is looking like he was in DrH's game: posting paragraphs trying to blend in. Compare that to XLIII where he was blue, and he was actively calling people out (like JeeJee). Here is one of his defense posts from that game where he was a lynch candidate:
On August 03 2011 04:53 Mig wrote:
I have a pretty simple defense. People should actually read my posts. Where have I backed down after putting pressure on people? What mafia objectives have I pushed? Look at the questions I asked varp and JeeJee. Was I trying to slander them or cast suspicion on them to look like I was fake contributing? Or was I asking legitimate questions that the town should be asking.
The town has almost no activity and I am actively trying to get people to post in IRC. What a scummy thing for me to do! I have pmd half the people in town asking them for their opinions. And I have no problem with giving my opinions on people. No one has to force me to contribute.
So just ask yourself if my play is helping the town or helping mafia. If you think I am helping mafia feel free to lynch me.
The confident attitude is what struck me most here. He actively challenges the town "What mafia objectives have I pushed?....Or was I asking legitimate questions that the town should be asking". This game that attitude is completely gone. Take a look at part of his defense:
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
My activity this game has been a lot lower than most of my games. I am really burned out on mafia right now. I have played too many games recently and I am going to take a break after this game. I have to force myself just to actually read the thread. It is no excuse for my poor play but it is the truth. So if I am lynched because of it my apologies for sucking.
I remember someone mentioning that 'appealing to emotions' is a mafia tactic. But as a whole his posts lack the confident attitude that we all know from town Mig. I agree that his case against DropBear is good (and DropBear should be looked at carefully after today), but that doesn't mean we should just assume he's innocent. If xtfftc released a good analysis against Pyo we wouldn't just abandon his case and jump ship. Anyone has potential to release a good analysis. The point is that Mig's defense of himself is sloppy and incomplete. Outside of yesterday's vote, he hasn't addressed many of the things chaoser and myself have presented. Why was he so unhelpful yesterday? Why is his attitude changed from his normal townie behavior?
Also I attacked him yesterday and got shot. Very frequently mafia flip out if they get attacked day 1 and shoot the attackers. I can list 3 separate games off the top of my head where this happened to me, and I'm sure I can find many more easily. Yes, this piece by itself does not mean Mig is mafia. The problem is that when you look at the big puzzle, all these individual pieces fit together to form the big picture.
Mig
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 12:19 Curu wrote:
You got shot N1 in Personality and you weren't doing anything except trolling all day. I really don't like a case built on "I got shot so xxx is Mafia" as this assumes Mafia plays to their absolute dumbest and most predictable.
The case against Mig is mostly meta, and he's stepping out of his invisible play. chaoser's accusations read like one big OMGUS, voting Mig on meta reasons too after being accused for meta reasons, you don't think there's some lazy vote parking and contradiction there either?
If there's a scum in that pairing I would lean heavily towards chaoser.
I don't know what OMGUS means. If you care about the town then type out what you want to say, don't hide behind acronyms.
Mostly meta? I accused him of bad posting yesterday. Chaoser found a contradiction today. No meta there. I look at his past games to verify my accusations. So far it's not in his favor. If his attitude this game was like when he was town (XLIII for example) then I would rethink my analysis and would not be pushing him this hard.
In response to "you don't think there's some lazy vote parking and contradiction there either?" no I don't. If there is point one out to me. Chaoser found a contradiction in Mig's post. That's pretty good in itself. I bring forth these arguments about "meta" because they serve as further evidence that I'm on the right track.
On August 23 2011 12:19 Curu wrote:
You got shot N1 in Personality and you weren't doing anything except trolling all day. I really don't like a case built on "I got shot so xxx is Mafia" as this assumes Mafia plays to their absolute dumbest and most predictable.
You clearly did not read the last paragraph of my previous post. I'm not building a case on this. I'm not building a case on this. I'm not building a case on this. My case is built upon his contradiction and bad day 1 posting. Everything else I've said only builds on top of that. Look at the big picture. The individual pieces are what make the big picture, and that's where you find the mafia. Examining one individual piece does not find you mafia.
For those that are wondering, I think xtfftc is town at the moment. I'm not thoroughly convinced, but the evidence against Mig just fits too well together.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 12:29 Mig wrote:
I am just stunned that you are trying to lynch based on something that wasn't even a contradiction and ignoring DB's posts which directly contradicted each other.
I'm sure chaoser can tell you all about that. He's the one who found it.
I already said that your case against DB is nice. I was going to make one tonight as well but you saved me some time. I actually thought you two were both mafia coming into today.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
And where's the contradiction in DB's posts? The ones you quoted are nearly ~48 hours apart. Is a man not allowed to change his mind? He saw what chaoser and I posted against you at the beginning of the day and said the same thing we (chaoser and I did) "wow that's pretty good, must be mafia".
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I spent last night rereading through all of chaoser's past games and all of brownbear's past games. It should be fairly obvious why I did this. I will defend chaoser to the grave if I have to, he's most certainly town.
For reference
On August 22 2011 14:02 chaoser wrote:There is only conjecture as to who would hit you and also block you at the same time. This only matters, of course, if you're telling the truth. I've seen mafia claim to be roleblocked when they really haven't been, I really wouldn't put it pass mafia to claim they were also hit, especially if it's you who is claiming to be blocked. I'll have to sleep on this. That being said, mig, I have a question: Show nested quote +Your meta argument is null at best, you say I don't post with attitude as town yet you provide no examples of me doing it as mafia. you said that to foolishness about him using meta to place suspicions against you but then you turn around and post this: Show nested quote +chaoser is playing completely out of character for his town play and is contributing nothing when he is a very strong player. and yet have not provided examples of me acting the way I did as mafia. A bit hypocritical don't you think? What's with the flip flopping on stances? On one hand, you don't accept meta when it's against you, but on the other you use it freely against others? And to foolishness, mig seems like the one you are most suspicious of, and yet instead of voting for him and pushing hard, you backed off with a "I wouldn't mind lynching mig" followed by a "rayzorflash is an outstanding issue as well" When I was mafia in XXXVII I basically posted just that about a teammate and this was noted by Ver as something that mafia would do. Why aren't you pushing harder on mig?
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 12:36 Mig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 12:34 Foolishness wrote:
And where's the contradiction in DB's posts? The ones you quoted are nearly ~48 hours apart. Is a man not allowed to change his mind? He saw what chaoser and I posted against you at the beginning of the day and said the same thing we (chaoser and I did) "wow that's pretty good, must be mafia". How about the fact he voted for hiro because he didn't give any reasons behind his vote. Then voted me without listing a single reason and he had said there was no case against me. Are you really arguing that isn't a contradiction. I mean come on.
It was 48 hours apart. He voted for you after chaoser wrote his post that I quoted above. There's nothing wrong with that. Chaoser brought new information to the table and DropBear was convinced of it.
Jackal never really said anything about you yesterday. Are you going to call him out for voting you today as well?
I agree that DropBear is suspicious and has issues, this isn't about him though.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On August 23 2011 12:41 Mig wrote:
Also I did call out jackal wtf? And he gave me his reason asked me a question and I responded.
Yes I just reread that now. My mistake.
On August 23 2011 12:41 Mig wrote:
No but I am saying he voted for hiro because hiro didn't list any reasons. He immediately turns around and votes me listing ZERO reasons.
Okay I see that as well. Your post against DB didn't say this though (or at least I got the wrong impression about what you were saying).
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
For the last time it's not speculation. It's additional pieces of the puzzle in building a case against someone.
You cannot lynch any person on 1 piece of evidence. Any piece of evidence against someone on it's own is a terrible argument. It's when you find multiple pieces that fit together than you have a mafia. Sevyrn was a good example. Lots of small pieces made him look like mafia. But the pieces didn't quite fit together.
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EPT
