Adam, they get a list of who the BGs end up being, that would be giving a 1 for 1 trade, or 1 for 2 at best
we can take that all day long
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
Adam, they get a list of who the BGs end up being, that would be giving a 1 for 1 trade, or 1 for 2 at best we can take that all day long | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
i forgot this was a no PM game we should make the BGs public knowledge, and let the medic WIFOM | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On January 13 2012 19:50 Chaosquo wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2012 19:34 EchelonTee wrote: How is meapak criticizing Nissani, an easy lynch, a characteristic of a VI? This is an honest question because I just don't see it. Regardless, I don't think there are any 3rd party roles. Yeah, there aren't, I checked. I actually agree with your assessment on Nissani... I don't think it's a super strong town tell, but yah. I dont understand how a random one line criticism of all candidates followed by a one liner explanation is a good town tell. Show nested quote + On January 13 2012 19:44 Adam4167 wrote: The officials do, sure. But if they're dead, how will they tell us who the bodyguards were that failed to protect them? I still think it's a big risk to use mafia as bodyguards. If the elected are protted and still get shot at and survives, we know the bodyguards are mafia. So this rule just forces the medics to prot the elected roles. is it possible to add the filter of the players to the player list, akin to link? it's not a good towntell if he knows how to fake that it is reading for me as "too scummy to be scum" does anyone have meta on nissani? | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On January 14 2012 03:26 rgTheSchworz wrote: I was trying to quote Palmar's hasty reaction and the fact that he supports someone who typed a one liner that Cyrandor would be scum on the basis that Wiggles' campaign might be the best. I will format better in the future. So far BC and BM have the most solid cases for mayor. BC-He has been active as he promised so far, is beggining to scumhunt, and ,,I am accountable for my actions'' has convinced me more than the generic things VE, risk, sandroba have been posting. BM-Now I don't know who this guy is, but one thing i'll give him: He had initiative at the start of day 1, built up a believable case against CC trying to force a mislynch, has some support from the town. Still, I will be waiting about 8 more h to decide on my vote.Hoping to see more from those 2 On January 14 2012 03:43 Mattchew wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 03:30 VisceraEyes wrote: On January 14 2012 03:16 Palmar wrote: On January 14 2012 03:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar, would you kindly answer the questions I've asked you? Your life could very well be on the line sir. No, your questions are dumb. All right - consider lynching Palmar as part of my platform. If you elect me to office, I promise to lynch scumPalmar as my first act. You said you wanted your first lynch to be a town decision? Where is this logic now? Not that this is scummy just shitty mayor play If you believe I see CC as scum, then you haven't read what I've typed. I didn't like his opener, but after he made a case on Mr. Wiggles, I wouldn't lynch him if I was elected. I am waiting to see what some of the lurkers are going to do, namely L, Sheth, and Pandemic. | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On January 14 2012 04:00 risk.nuke wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote: BC, I consider your claim to be scummy for this reason: you're essentially leveraging your role to win you this election. Discuss. I agree the motive is no doubt to win the election, I don't think it's scummy though. It just seems too cooky and there are motives for town aswell as scum to win the election. I think town has more to win on his move then scum. He also seemed to already have taken a lead in the election and judging from his post efforts I feel confident that if he were scum he could had won the election without resorting to this. And if he could have won the election without it it just feels like a bad scummove to put himself in this much spotlight. Even if he is the scum mason he will have an impossibly hard time to achive any scum agendas with his pm abillity. I will watch him closely for signs that he doesn't play as he preach and I don't think I will be the only one. It's just to much trouble to actually benefit the scum so I will choose to assume his claim is legit. It makes much more sense seeing how much this could potentially strenghten the town. Compared to what a risky long-shot high effort/low reward move it would be from scum. You will have my vote. +1 I completely agree with this post, but he already has my vote | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
other mason DO NOT claim | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
time to catch up on 15 pages :/ | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
On January 14 2012 04:26 supersoft wrote: hey, toadesstern, can you link me a game where you were town? I know your scummeta. It's talking a lot with no content. You do that right now. I don't see how he was doing that Do you not like explanations? What is your read on Cyber_Cheese? Nisani? Sandroba? On January 14 2012 04:26 sandroba wrote: Okay let me address somethings I liked in this thread: 1) Proactinum post is the best one so far. Fuck yes I like it. Cyriandor is my top candidate for lynch if I get elected. 2) Jackal's idea is very good. If I'm elected I'll lynch 1 or 0 bg. 3) I'm seriously considering supporting a mason mass claim day1. Mafia will have to claim it early if they ever want to use it and it gives us good basis for discussion. These big games fall rapidly out of control if we don't keep focus and this will give us something to go by. I don't like this post by Sandroba, he says he is going to lynch Ciryandor if he's elected, and even if he won't get that opportunity, I'm not seeing any reasoning out of him. Does he have any? nope. He then pushes for a mason mass claim, which is tremendously anti-town if I'm elected, right now, I would lynch Sandroba. if Sandroba is mafia, Ciryandor is town. On January 14 2012 04:33 Toadesstern wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 04:26 supersoft wrote: hey, toadesstern, can you link me a game where you were town? I know your scummeta. It's talking a lot with no content. You do that right now. here you go: my first ever gamehttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264798 my 2nd game my third game was that 80 player game. I did the same to some degree but stopped posting after d2 or something like that because it was too much of a mess for me at that point in time 4th game was my first ever mafia (the one with annul) 5th game was resistance this is the 6th game. So nothing more I can provide I like this self meta from Todesstern. A for effort. Pretty sure he's town. On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them. WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch I agree he could be lying here, but is it worth losing BC on a coinflip? It might be WIFOM to a certain degree, but tell me, would it be optimal play for 2 mafia to come forward with such a hairballed scheme on day 1? Mafia will sit back and play like supersoft or sandroba are, mattchew, not claiming on d1 like BC has. This looks like BC's town game to me, honestly, and I have meta. however, I would like BC to answer a question I was wondering myself, since someone else brought this up, and we need to get this mason shit out of the way @BC: when you say: "my role unlike anyone elses is confirmable.", how can we know you aren't a mafia mason, or fakeclaiming? your buddy could fakeclaim you masoned him, if you out it at all, when you really don't need to out who you masoned. How do you plan on getting confirmed? To me, mason just appears to be a neighbor this game, since it only lasts a cycle. The fact that there is a mafia mason just fucks everything in terms of confirming you. While statistically, you're 50% town at this point, aren't we all only like 20% to be mafia? Have you really created better odds for yourself by claiming mason? You really haven't, come to think of it. By not claiming, I am more likely town than you from the town's perspective, because at best you're 25% likely mafia (1/4), and at worse 50% (1/2) If you all listen to me, however, and elect me mayor, the lynch will be 100% Let's Lynch Sandroba guys On January 14 2012 04:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 04:36 Mattchew wrote: On January 14 2012 04:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: If i am a red mason it means whoever claims i masoned will be town, period. I would never have to mason a scumbuddy as well, im already talking to them. WIFOM Otherwise, Do you think that all masons should claim like you have? Assuming atleast 1 mason would be mafia it could lead to a high percentage day 1 lynch how is that wifom? Why would I as red ever out myself and another mafia in the same day? Especially when if i had used my mason somewhere else i would be counterclaimed and die? It would mean i would have to hold onto my use and have a scumbuddy claim and thus waste my own power to corrupt a townie? It is pure logic, not wifom. As for masons claiming? Things like this are what my claim were supposed to generate. Forcing people to only post in the thread for instance is a huge deal as it removes a scum form of play, etc... I haven't seen you out who you masoned This is very logical, though, and answers a lot of the questions I had for you On January 14 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote: BC, are you for or against a mass-mason claim? I like the idea behind the discussion this is generating, but I'd like your opinion as much as you'd like everyone else's opinion. Personally, I'm torn on the mass-mason claim. It makes sense in that Mafia will be put to the decision to either kill them or let them mason away...but with their own masons, it seems to me like they'll probably avoid killing them as to not draw any attention to THEIR masons (by them surviving). I know you all aren't talking to me, but I want to respond here, so hold on. I am for a mass mason claim, but not on who they masoned, Lynching between masons is better, statistically, and more probable of lynching mafia. I want to lynch a mason who is NOT BC. The thing is, I don't think mafia will have their mason come out of the woodworks. if you get masoned by someone other than bc, they are probably mafia, and you should out them in the thread VisceraEyes gets +town points On January 14 2012 05:25 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Wow lots happened while I was asleep Alright let's talk BC's claim. BC's claim is actually pretty brilliant in my eye and here's why. Before claiming, BC was easily one of the top three candidates for mayor if not the top one. There's little doubt in my mind that BC would have gotten one of the elected positions. Now he could always claim once elected, however that's not a pressure position. He's got bodyguards and immunity from dt checks so there's no danger of dying if he's town, or being found out if he's scum. However by claiming mid day like this it instantly puts a HUGE amount of pressure on him. All eyes are on him at the moment and his every action is being scrutinized. This is an extremely tough position to be in as scum. And so it begs the question, if BC is scum, what is the motivation for claiming like this? He had a great chance at being elected so why mess that up as scum? With this claim BC is willingly taking the spotlight and the scrutiny. While he may be scum and have the biggest balls I've ever seen, I find it far more likely that he is doing his best to demonstrate his good intentions by willingly going on the hot seat. In conclusion, I can only think of town motives for claiming. currently MIA: L, now would be a good time to start posting. Things that are bad in a townie way: Palmar, I don't think you're scum but I'd appreciate if you put more effort into the game. Things that are bad in a scummy way: People calling Palmar scum. Palmar is making himself a really easy target with his blatantly bad posting, it doesn't take much to call someone who's posting like him out. It's people trying to score townie points by looking like they're standing up and acting town when in reality they're just going after something that costs them no skin off their back. Note this doesn't apply to people who have simply asked Palmar to play better (like me lol) I'm instead talking about the people who were like "zomfg lynch palmar." FoS: Meapak for buddying up to a mislynch Could also be scumcoaching his buddy L to post more if L flips mafia, I'm going to look into Meapak, and vice versa On January 14 2012 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Agh should have proof read that, I have another point for why BC's claim is protown. It forces discussion of the issue and it gives us something to talk about on day 1 instead of just discussing the usual things which often lead nowhere. As scum, the status quo of talking in circles day 1 is great, BC's claim interupts that though and suddenly puts people (especially scum) on the spot to talk about an issue that is not normally present day 1. How does this pressure scum at all? Mafia don't have to mason. Hell, BC might just be vanilla mafia pulling a fast one over all our eyes lol On January 14 2012 05:31 ~OpZ~ wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 04:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On January 14 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote: BC: Well, obviously you're no GF this game, because you claimed a confirmable role. Unless I'm mistaken, scum can't be mason AND GF, yes? DT checks will be accurate on you...so there's that. Confirming your alignment, in my opinion, should be paramount because I find it EXTREMELY likely that you would have elected to be mason on the scum team (for reasons that should be obvious to you and several others.) What's your plan on confirming your role? Are you going to out who you've masoned with? Are you going to let them do it at their own pace? I will out my first mason shortly, I want the debate to however move towards how to deal with masons as a whole. I say this because you know from experience with me just how subtle a touch can be needed to manipulate/confuse someone. A mafia mason will have the experience of a team in manipulation whereas a town member has their own ability to run with. On January 14 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2012 03:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The Day 1 Important Discussion Post #1 Read this post fully before posting. It is something that everyone must read, and that everyone must comment on That is right friends, this post as I am writing it is near one of the most important posts of this game day. You are going to ask? Why BC? Simple. I am about to do something that will cause people to yell and scream at me. I am roleclaiming. I am mason Note what I have done? [1] I have now put myself from the statistical chance of flipping a town aligned role of 80%ish and lowered it to a solid 50%. I am now either 50% red or 50% blue.[/1.] I am doing this for a few reasons. [2] 1) in this game there could exist masons on both sides of the equation. As such dealing with them early is key as they work behind the scenes of the game. [/2] [3] 2) it is a confirmable role, stress this point, ROLE. I can confirm my role at the beginning of a day cycle as opposed to at the end of a day cycle [/3] 3) I am being transparent. By giving this information now, reading me becomes far easier. There will never be the "is he blue trying to breadcrumb etc..?" [4] 4) goes along with 3, however it outs one of the masons now. It stops the discussion later of people discussing all the people who are masons and who is believable late game whereas we can cover at least one of them now [/4] This also sets the town up in a very advantageous way. Why you ask? I am elected and now town knowingly knows I am active in pms. I am not elected and not auto lynched by mayor and same information is known. [5] It also forces the mafia to deal with me as they have no idea what I am doing in pm land. Do they try and kill who I am talking to? Do they use their own masons and attempt to find out what I have said, etc....[/5] This I feel is the most advantageous day 1 use of my ability. I have already used my mason use for the day and will say who I used it on after this post in the nearish future. I am leaving who it is out as the purpose is to generate discussion on my claim, not on who I chose to mason to. As to detail of why I did this aside from the general points I made? Everyone will have an opinion on this claim. Some good, some bad. People will have to have an opinion on this subject however. EVERYONE will have an opinion. Do not just post "wtf bc you dumb fuck why would you do this". This is a debate about me specifically being a mason and if I should be elected, not elected and lynched, or not elected and left for the mafia to deal with me. All vets, all new players, all semi experienced players will have an opinion and it is needed. Anyone who fails to properly contribute on this matter. I have thought this claim out and realize that generally claiming day 1 is bad, however I feel at least with this mechanic and how it could be abused it should be discussed (especially with a high profile player such as myself possessing it) now and not later. On the most important note that this post will do however is generate serious discussion. How do you all wish to proceed with a mason claim? Specifically my mason claim? 1) That's obviously bullshit. The chances to win lottery aren't 50% because you either win or you don't... but I see what you want to tell us 2) why? 3) no it's not. You're masoning someone. That someone is going to tell us if you masoned him. If you are a mafia you could tell us you masoned a mafiabuddy and of course your buddy will tell everyone you pm'ed him. 4) I don't realy care about what's going to happen with discussion later on if whatever might happen. I want to get a town mayor right now and for that reason I'd much rather see things tell give me something on your alignment than something that might or might not improve future-world 5) I'm pretty sure mafia will have to deal with you no matter what. That is if you're town. It's not like mafia is going not kill you because they think you might be a green instead of a blue and therefor you're no threat to them. Incorrect for you good sir. my role unlike anyone elses is confirmable. However my role is able to appear on both town and mafia sides thus rather than claiming "i am townie" and having the 80ish% chance of being one of the townie i am now firmly 50/50. My role is confirmable, my alignment isn't. You can clearly say "you were either 1 or the other before" however I have removed fake claiming almost entirely. Mafia do not benefit from me fake claiming this, nor do town. as for how I can confirm my role at the start? I mason at the beginning of a cycle not the end. As for saying its not confirmable? If i am a generic red and claim mason my mafia buddy says i masoned him. I die flip mafia goon he fucking dies. The only people who in their right mind would claim mason, are mason. As for also saying im not transparent? You know my role, I am even trying to discuss the role itself. If you do not care about the possible damages of a mafia mason late game and only care about the now then you are not playing in the best interests of this town. You must always look ahead. If there are roles that could potentially fuck town two days from now that wouldn't have if we talked about them today then we talk about it today. Period. as for mafia dealing with me? Say for arguments sake, there are 4 masons and 1 is red. I don't get elected and am not lynched by mayor. Mafia now has the option of killing me and thus reducing the number of people they can hide amongst and masons are confirmable. By claiming, town will always be analyzing me and determining if i am red or blue and choose to off me based on it. Mafia have the risk of killing me early and thus potentially outing one of their own early on or leaving me alone and hope the town ignores me. The longer I live the more benefit i am to the town and if i die by mafia shot I out one of their own slightly faster. Now. How do people wish to deal with masons as a whole? Do all discussions made get posted in thread? Do we opt to not talk to people who mason you, etc... This is an important matter, move just passed my personal claim and look at the role as a whole. Here is a link to a thread where masons were discussed before to get an idea why I think its important to discuss. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278946 the situation proposed there is obviously different from this game but the important none the less. The Mason this game is more just about whispering it looks like. It really isn't that strong in the game. They can't create circles or nothing. They can disseminate roles privately I suppose but the threat is always there that the mason is mafia. As you yourself might be BC. I don't really see too much power in the role as of the moment. Especially if you play the game as such as to ignore pms. It really isn't that powerful. It is just a neighbor in this setup. It isn't even really a mason. On January 14 2012 05:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On January 14 2012 05:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I vote we totally ignore this mason thing, and allow them to do what they will. Masons can help both sides, and can backfire for mafia. Additionally, the mafia masons have to worry about maintaining their townieness on two fronts. If the masons people use their intellect, we can make the mafia masons potentially backfire. If their logs conflict at any point, we get a 1 for 1 trade. Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone. Townies only have themselves. The level of experience on one front is far more stacked then the other. By making people discuss what masons are allowed to do, or how they are allowed to act you instead cripple the mafia from the get go. Yes and no. The townie doesn't have to worry about looking pro-town at any point in time, so conversations are very natural. The scum should have problems appearing townie to both the thread and the masoned person. LotR mafia, Radfield was this sort of scum mason, and he chose Sandroba. We didn't get to talk to Radfield all day, because he had to explain his every action to some level of detail in his conversation with Sandroba. And that's discluding the scenario where a townie masons a scum and forces him into speech. If we mass claim masons while making them useless, they essentially become VT's, so the mafia have higher chances of hitting other blues. Intense scrutiny is better all around. Play smart and masons are a very pro-town force. Show nested quote + On August 12 2011 06:20 flamewheel wrote: Mafia Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in your mafia. You may kill your own members. Mafia killing power will be determined when the game begins. You also must choose the Godfather, Roleblocker, Jack, and/or Framer from among yourselves. These [potentially] four Mafia power roles must be separately distributed, meaning one Mafia member can only possess one of these powers. If you do not choose by the start of night 1, I will randomly choose for you. Mafia will also have a certain number of Masons, which can be given to any Mafia (even those possessing other roles). Show nested quote + On January 13 2012 14:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: A couple notes about the set-up: Elected roles gain detection immunity. This makes it worse for us if mafia get into one of these roles, as we have no way to DT check them. It also means that the GF probably won't run for office, or if he does, he'll drop out early. Between the mayor and the sheriff, the sheriff is the one who actually has power past day 1. So, one thing we can do, is vote in a player that we see as both a strong townie, and as being town in this game, into the mayor role solely for the purposes of protection. This applies to the sheriff too, but there's more responsibility on them as the game goes on due to the jailkeeper mechanic. Also something to note, is that we can't trust vig claims, due to the possibility of mafia jack's, who would be able to shoot and not affect what KP would show up that night coming from the mafia. We should also maybe talk about when to use our double lynches, but I don't think it's a huge deal until when the time comes that we might actually want to use them. We just need to be careful not to waste them. Vote me into office, please. I don't know if there's anything to make of this, but I feel like it was correcting. No mafia have roles until they need them, so the GF will not be elected. CC why the hell would you say that? Even if I know BC's role is worthless, and I agree with you, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT NOW THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO wow On January 14 2012 05:33 Kurumi wrote: Have You been to the new Sherlock Holmes? It's good. Anyway, Meapak's reasoning sounds reasonable and I feel stupid for not getting such basic thing. BC, do You think You'd be dead if not elected into office today? FoS: Kurumi 1 useless post, promises content, comes back and minorly scumtells through going off topic He's scum with sandroba On January 14 2012 05:34 sandroba wrote: Alright peeps here are the advantages of mass claim masons: 1) It forces mafia to come under a lot of scrutiny if they want to use the mason power. The plan is to watch these people closely and get a lot of the info out in the open, instead of allowing masons to operate in the shadows. 2) If mafia doesn't want the spot light they will probably not claim nor use their mason powers, which is very good for town. For this same reason we must not go on a witch hunt on the claimed masons, because they can be of any alignment and may be all town as well. We shall lynch people because of suspicious behavior, not because of trying to find mafia withing the masons. 3) There is not much of a downside to it. If mafia wants to waste their roleblock/kill on mason by all means be my guest. It further protects our really important blue roles which is great. If they choose to ignore them we are back in the same place we we're before with extra info as town that mafia opted not to use. Which is great. speaking of sandroba being scum, lol guys, look at this, and how blatantly anti-town this plan is On January 14 2012 05:37 Kurumi wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:35 Cyber_Cheese wrote: On January 14 2012 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Agh should have proof read that, I have another point for why BC's claim is protown. It forces discussion of the issue and it gives us something to talk about on day 1 instead of just discussing the usual things which often lead nowhere. As scum, the status quo of talking in circles day 1 is great, BC's claim interupts that though and suddenly puts people (especially scum) on the spot to talk about an issue that is not normally present day 1. It's discussing the set-up, we don't really need that when we could be scum hunting. There is enough information generated by elections already. It's not discussing the set-up only. Don't try to low the worth (word?) the BC claim fuss. OK This post has me wondering if BC is scum Kurumi is defending BC now I could see BC-Kurumi-Sandroba scumteam actually fuck On January 14 2012 05:45 Jayjay54 wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really. this is a really bad post imo. 1) no it's most certainly not town favoured. the mafia gets to prove read every single PM. while mafia can just target weak players in our team and thus spread confusing. 2) how on earth wouldn't it tell us something about the remaining masons? you say that townies claimed wrong? because in this scenario 4 masons are claimed, 2 are most certainly mafia, aren't they? how is that a bad post? I agree with kita, masons shouldn't massclaim your point 2 is completely wrong, but it is the course of venue we should take if it is a masonic massclaim, because 25% > 20% on a lynch in terms of likelihood to be mafia, but it won't be 50% like you or BC are saying, unless it's 1 town mason and 1 mafia mason. On January 14 2012 05:47 Kurumi wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On January 14 2012 05:33 Kurumi wrote: Have You been to the new Sherlock Holmes? It's good. Anyway, Meapak's reasoning sounds reasonable and I feel stupid for not getting such basic thing. BC, do You think You'd be dead if not elected into office today? I feel like I might get shot? Mafia has to outweigh the importance of the mason role. Do they risk outing themselves faster by killing me, or keep me alive and hope that i get offed by town? Do I think I will die, at some point yes, totally depends on how the game rolls. Cool. I suppose You're going to try to confirm people through PMs, since fishing for blue roles is not something needed for a Town mason, right? Yeah, that's what everyone should just say open in the thread if it happens. Anyway. If You get elected we get very strong both town and scum player in the office, also You're really good in PM manipulation. The risks as for me, are still 50/50. If You're scum, we're fucked, if You're not, they're fucked. NM BC isn't scum with this guy Kurumi is still scum carry on On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote: MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. How is there no downside? Mafia WON'T CLAIM. Mason role is useless like CC already said. On January 14 2012 05:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote: BC are you for or against a mass-mason claim? This is now the second time I've asked you. Please respond. I repeat, please respond to my query regarding the mass-mason claim. I am fine with either it, or having town just say "we ignore all pms that arent host pms" Making every mason accountable / making them useless to prevent manipulation seems the best play at the moment. making them all claim however is the optimal play, it may out the group of us, but it also prevents mafia from using their ability without being in the spotlight. wow are you really scum? your posts, and people talking to you, keep making my flip flop @BC: why are you dealing in absolutes? On January 14 2012 05:58 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:45 Jayjay54 wrote: On January 14 2012 05:31 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree with a mass mason claim. A mason is a town favored role. Denying the mafia mason is not the priority. I'd be more than happy if a scum mason tried to contact me, considering they are now pressured into openly sharing their reads. People tend to have loose lips when regarding pms, but if you always consider their motives and agenda then there is no problem. With a mass claim, the scum team is free to pick off or roleblock blues. Suppose there are 4 mason claims and two get shot night one and flip town. Does that tell us anything about the remaining two masons? Not really. this is a really bad post imo. 1) no it's most certainly not town favoured. the mafia gets to prove read every single PM. while mafia can just target weak players in our team and thus spread confusing. 2) how on earth wouldn't it tell us something about the remaining masons? you say that townies claimed wrong? because in this scenario 4 masons are claimed, 2 are most certainly mafia, aren't they? 1) I guess we have to disagree then. Even if mafia target weak players, those weak players still have logs of the agenda the mason is pushing on them. It is incredibly useful to have someone to bounce ideas off of in private, even if you don't know their alignment. In addition, it generates additional information that isn't available in the thread. 2) We don't know the role distribution. It is just as likely that there are 4 town masons and 0 scum masons as it is that there are 2 town masons and 2 scum masons. For people saying there isn't a downside to a mass mason claim, of course there is. Mafia now has the identities of additional blue roles. Why am I the only one making any sense at the moment? Kitaman is right. I don't want to outguess the mod, but IT IS a flamewheel game. He could put that in there and put 10 masons since they're not really recruiters and they're just for information. He had nosy neighbors roaming around everywhere the last time I remember playing in a game he hosted, and given a mason claim D1, there could be masons all over, That's another reason we shouldn't massclaim on masons. what if there are like 10? On January 14 2012 05:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 05:51 Jayjay54 wrote: On January 14 2012 05:48 sandroba wrote: MASONS. FUCKING MASS CLAIM. RIGHT NOW. THERE IS NO DOWNSIDE. I second that. Come on out masons! Masons hold your shit. Massclaims day 1 are ALWAYS a bad idea. It puts strain on medics, it hands the mafia blue roles without even trying, and it creates a ridiculous mess that would take days to sort out who was actually a mason and who wasn't. I dont know who thought up this massclaim idea but it's stupid and should stop now. Yeah. Thank you, Meapak, that was well said. I'm glad someone has the same viewpoint as me. I'm sorry I offended you, earlier. Cookie? On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus. So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries* FoS: ~OpZ~ minor scumslip here. OpZ is being wishy-washy, and that's a scummy reaction On January 14 2012 06:03 sandroba wrote: @meapak Generally I would agree, but have you thought about it? Read my post where I explain it. Now give me REASONS why it's a bad idea. 1) the entire town could be masons 2) there might not be any masons at all 3) scum don't have to actually claim, if they are mason at all 4) outting more than 1 PR on d1 is poor play, especially in a no-PM setup On January 14 2012 06:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus. So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries* to be fair i have no mod confirmation that i was mason'd -_- What? BC just scumslipped BC + OpZ are mafia | ||
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OPZ IF YOURE NOT MASON YOURE SCUM | ||
Bill Murray
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On January 14 2012 07:23 Liquid`Sheth wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 07:10 ~OpZ~ wrote: On January 14 2012 07:01 Liquid`Sheth wrote: On January 14 2012 06:44 ~OpZ~ wrote: Sheth....For real? That is your reason for voting for someones who already stated that their activity will be waning? Would all it take to get you to change to BC or Sandroba be a declaration of lynching Ciry or is it just because he has already chosen his lynch target? Bill, I don't really think Sandroba is scum because he called for a mason mass claim. So did BC in a round-a-bout way. I personally don't view the role with much power, so I don't know. I've been trying all day to think of a way to make it useful, but seriously, just ignoring pms this game seems the most highly logical play I could think of. I mean, I'm still gonna try and pm you. <3 Ya Buddddddddy. Welcome back. They haven't stated their activity will be waning. No just switching to lynching Cir wouldn't cause me to switch my vote. That was stated prior to the game start. I'm just curious as to your reasons for voting for them and the only reason I find is he is willing to lynch ciry. You didn't really say as to why and I found that scummy, so I guess it begs the question, why are you voting for protact? You find a small point of my post, and call it scummy. You haven't complained about anyone else's votes and yet you consider that scummy. I wasn't even the first person to put my vote on him, but once its possibly gaining steam you point out that what I'm doing is scummy. You've also claimed to be our second Mason for those who missed it, as I didn't realize it until I read your filter. oh fuck i missed it nevermind thanks, sheth sorry, opz | ||
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On January 14 2012 08:08 Scamp wrote: So far most of the candidates haven't put a lot of effort into this game. It should be noted, once again, that the GF is selected after the mayoral elections. Thus mafia can send whoever they want at the elected spots, and if any veteran or suspicious day 1 players get elected then they can put the GF on someone else. i was going to defend myself, here, but you said "most" candidates carry on | ||
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it prevents mafia from subbing in and saccing On January 14 2012 09:14 kingjames01 wrote: Also, consider for the moment, that BC may be mafia Jack. If he uses his Mason power on Day 1 to establish his credibility and then is subsequently elected to office, we will not be able to find the mafia Jack. It is a risk, but I know that BC will take that risk. He is very much a medium-risk, high-reward player. EVERYONE! WHAT HAPPENS IF BLOODYC0BBLER IS MAFIA JACK? I consider this scenario involving BC to be within his bag of tricks, and I will not vote to elect him into office. I didn't like his interactions with opz, until I realized that one of them masoned the other, I think if he's scum, and he's doing that, it would free up another member to be elected GF it really is a good play kingjames get +town points, even if he's speculating on the setup, because his speculation is just that good, and actually pressures/scumhunts On January 14 2012 09:15 Nisani201 wrote: BC's mason claim is disappointing. This was said earlier, but it's important to note that if we end up electing him, we wont be able to check him with a DT. With my mayor, I don't give a shit if I know what role he is. I want to know his alignment. That's why I no longer support his campaign. I however am really starting to like Sandroba. He is making a lot of sense, and the fact that he is aggressively pushing for mass mason claim (which I support) makes him seem town to me. Don't let him pull the wool over your eyes, Nisani. Sandroba is scum. He is pushing a scummy agenda. Outting the masons is something mafia want. You towntold earlier, and I don't really trust you with your vote, considering you're voting for my top scum candidate. You need to start scumhunting! On January 14 2012 09:16 Foolishness wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 09:05 Jayjay54 wrote: Hmm. As this thread slowed down a bit, could all the candidates please say what their lynch plan for day one is and why? would be quite nice for the town! As I speak on the behalf of the candidacy of the one and only BILL MURRAY I can tell you right now that he will be lynching Chaosquo. I haven't looked into Chaosquo, but I will do that right now. If I was elected right now, I would be lynching Sandroba. | ||
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On January 14 2012 19:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 18:55 Bill Murray wrote: BC, were you THE ORIGINAL mason, or WERE YOU MASONED? Actually, rereading the thread, I realize that I'm a bit unclear as to what exactly encompasses BC's claim. I'm gonna agree with Bill here, BC it's time you come clean here and tell us what's going on. I feel you're town, however you're starting to give off that "I'm hiding something" vibe which doesn't make me comfortable. So, no excuses or beating around the bush. Tell me right now who you masoned. Once you've told us we will then ask them for varification. This honestly shouldn't be that difficult. Yeah, If BC was MASONED by opz, then everything is completely different On January 14 2012 19:06 ~OpZ~ wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus. So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries* Same post I claim mason. -_-...srsly...The first part was orginally going to be a different post. That first portion was my first PM to BC tbh. Jesus christ, you and wherebugsgo are focusing on that way too much. Did you not notice I claimed in the same post? YOUR PM to BC? so YOU masoned HIM? | ||
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On January 14 2012 19:10 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 18:52 Bill Murray wrote: On January 14 2012 05:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote: On January 14 2012 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: On January 14 2012 05:09 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I vote we totally ignore this mason thing, and allow them to do what they will. Masons can help both sides, and can backfire for mafia. Additionally, the mafia masons have to worry about maintaining their townieness on two fronts. If the masons people use their intellect, we can make the mafia masons potentially backfire. If their logs conflict at any point, we get a 1 for 1 trade. Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone. Townies only have themselves. The level of experience on one front is far more stacked then the other. By making people discuss what masons are allowed to do, or how they are allowed to act you instead cripple the mafia from the get go. Yes and no. The townie doesn't have to worry about looking pro-town at any point in time, so conversations are very natural. The scum should have problems appearing townie to both the thread and the masoned person. LotR mafia, Radfield was this sort of scum mason, and he chose Sandroba. We didn't get to talk to Radfield all day, because he had to explain his every action to some level of detail in his conversation with Sandroba. And that's discluding the scenario where a townie masons a scum and forces him into speech. If we mass claim masons while making them useless, they essentially become VT's, so the mafia have higher chances of hitting other blues. Intense scrutiny is better all around. Play smart and masons are a very pro-town force. On August 12 2011 06:20 flamewheel wrote: Mafia Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in your mafia. You may kill your own members. Mafia killing power will be determined when the game begins. You also must choose the Godfather, Roleblocker, Jack, and/or Framer from among yourselves. These [potentially] four Mafia power roles must be separately distributed, meaning one Mafia member can only possess one of these powers. If you do not choose by the start of night 1, I will randomly choose for you. Mafia will also have a certain number of Masons, which can be given to any Mafia (even those possessing other roles). On January 13 2012 14:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: A couple notes about the set-up: Elected roles gain detection immunity. This makes it worse for us if mafia get into one of these roles, as we have no way to DT check them. It also means that the GF probably won't run for office, or if he does, he'll drop out early. Between the mayor and the sheriff, the sheriff is the one who actually has power past day 1. So, one thing we can do, is vote in a player that we see as both a strong townie, and as being town in this game, into the mayor role solely for the purposes of protection. This applies to the sheriff too, but there's more responsibility on them as the game goes on due to the jailkeeper mechanic. Also something to note, is that we can't trust vig claims, due to the possibility of mafia jack's, who would be able to shoot and not affect what KP would show up that night coming from the mafia. We should also maybe talk about when to use our double lynches, but I don't think it's a huge deal until when the time comes that we might actually want to use them. We just need to be careful not to waste them. Vote me into office, please. I don't know if there's anything to make of this, but I feel like it was correcting. No mafia have roles until they need them, so the GF will not be elected. CC why the hell would you say that? Even if I know BC's role is worthless, and I agree with you, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT NOW THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO wow If one person could work out it was a retarded and useless plan, what makes you think a team of 10 couldn't? I couldn't just sit idly by and let the rest of town not figure that out for themselves. If the mafia masons acted vanilla, and picked off the other masons, the town masons they don't kill look bad by default. I can see a lot of scum motivation to try and make the masons claim/nerf any advantage the masons could provide. At the end of the day, BC appears to be pushing to nerf the pro-town force that is our masons, by scaring us with the prospect of scum masons. You end that with a FoS on BC, where exactly do you stand? :/ I didn't see that BC and OpZ were both out as masons I thought they scumslipped | ||
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On January 14 2012 10:51 Mattchew wrote: Would anyone like to discuss my mayoral candidacy? I think I make the best case to get a townie in office *facepalm* On January 14 2012 10:56 bumatlarge wrote: Mattchew's reasoning: "Hm, foolishness is a strong townie I hear, and I'm a mason, I wonder what I should do?" At this point, mattchew had not yet posted in the thread so he must have read this; Show nested quote + On January 13 2012 14:36 Foolishness wrote: This is my official campaign post! It is all very simple! No, I am not running for office. My campaign is based around voting for the one and only Bill Murray! Let's face it, there are many people (L) who are going to run on the basis of lynching Bill Murray. Do we want to make such a rash decision this early in the game? Time has shown that such policy lynches are just a distraction from our true purpose of scum hunting. In order to save Bill Murray from such an easy day 1 lynch, I propose we save him by putting him in office. Now before you go on making propositions that I have just smoked a pound of weed, consider the situation our beloved Bill Murray is in. As his first game back, we know for sure he's going to be top notch. This is his chance to prove to the old members that he's changed and proved to the new members that he's a respectable player. Thus we can expect him to bust out his A+ game. He knows that if he nails a few mafia this game he'll have turned from village idiot into village hottie. Who would you rather have in office? Someone like Bill Murray who is probably spending 14 hours a day figuring out who is mafia or someone like kitaman27 or bumatlarge who will just put forth the same normal effort we'd expect from an elected official? Bill Murray is the real deal, and we know he'll be the real deal. Who knows how much effort Cyber_Cheese really wants to put in this game. Definitely not as much as Bill Murray will! A vote for Bill Murray is a vote for the town! Now what if our esteemed actor turns out to be mafia? Don't worry, as a proven scumhunter, I will dedicate enormous amounts of my time to making sure Bill Murray is indeed town. And he has a lot of games under his belt for comparison. Of course I will also be doing my usual scumhunting, so do not fret. But we can be sure that Bill Murray will be posting frequently (hopefully not too much) and will be active in his duties, especially given what I've said above. Is kitaman only going to make 2 posts a day if he gets elected in? Maybe. Will Bill Murray? No of course not. And we all know that the more someone posts the more likely their true colors show. If Bill Murray turns out to be mafia it shouldn't be long before it becomes obvious. If he's not, we got an easily confirmed innocent in office who at the very least will make the entire mafia team facepalm. And a mafia team with their palms on their faces will be unable to type. You can make the right choice! Vote Bill Murray! + Show Spoiler + Yes I'm 100% serious Mattchew: "Wow, he really is a solid townie! Look at how he backs a questionable candidate who has not even posted yet. He might be scum, or he's a really good town player" Now, if you had alot of experience with foolishness, I could perhaps understand, but if this is your reasoning as a person who has not played with him, your reasons for him as town suck. ERGO you must be trolling. Mattchew already claimed townie hence my facepalm Foolishness is definitely town as well, because he is 100% trolling, and not reaction testing He has no motives to do what he's doing, right now, as scum He is probably my strongest townread beyond Nisani. That being said, I'd rather lose Nisani than Foolishness. | ||
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On January 14 2012 10:57 Toadesstern wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 10:47 wherebugsgo wrote: no, he's literally this bad as mafia. If he's this useless, he's auto scum. If he's town he'll actually put in effort. This is not WIFOM because if he were town he would not want to confuse us. He would be clear about establishing himself as a townie and the "WIFOM" you speak of wouldn't exist. Honestly there is no WIFOM, the only possibility for Palmar at this point is scum. Since you keep saying let's keep him till day 2, I assume you have a better candidate for us to lynch? Why don't you give us that candidate? If not, then let's lynch Palmar, not? Why wait a day and waste a lynch that will potentially hit a townie instead of just killing the almost certain scum in Palmar? he threatened to dayvig a dayvig last time he rolled town. He even said that he tried to chill a game and tried to troll town until everyone was telling him to stop shooting townies (telepathically thanks to V7's help). Other alternatives? Sure what about those guys: 11. EchelonTee 20. Ciryandor 30. blahz0r 45. Macpo EchelonTee is actually "that one guy whose name i can't remember" that started with an E for me He has +town points on my word document On January 14 2012 11:03 Mattchew wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2012 10:56 bumatlarge wrote: Mattchew's reasoning: "Hm, foolishness is a strong townie I hear, and I'm a mason, I wonder what I should do?" At this point, mattchew had not yet posted in the thread so he must have read this; On January 13 2012 14:36 Foolishness wrote: This is my official campaign post! It is all very simple! No, I am not running for office. My campaign is based around voting for the one and only Bill Murray! Let's face it, there are many people (L) who are going to run on the basis of lynching Bill Murray. Do we want to make such a rash decision this early in the game? Time has shown that such policy lynches are just a distraction from our true purpose of scum hunting. In order to save Bill Murray from such an easy day 1 lynch, I propose we save him by putting him in office. Now before you go on making propositions that I have just smoked a pound of weed, consider the situation our beloved Bill Murray is in. As his first game back, we know for sure he's going to be top notch. This is his chance to prove to the old members that he's changed and proved to the new members that he's a respectable player. Thus we can expect him to bust out his A+ game. He knows that if he nails a few mafia this game he'll have turned from village idiot into village hottie. Who would you rather have in office? Someone like Bill Murray who is probably spending 14 hours a day figuring out who is mafia or someone like kitaman27 or bumatlarge who will just put forth the same normal effort we'd expect from an elected official? Bill Murray is the real deal, and we know he'll be the real deal. Who knows how much effort Cyber_Cheese really wants to put in this game. Definitely not as much as Bill Murray will! A vote for Bill Murray is a vote for the town! Now what if our esteemed actor turns out to be mafia? Don't worry, as a proven scumhunter, I will dedicate enormous amounts of my time to making sure Bill Murray is indeed town. And he has a lot of games under his belt for comparison. Of course I will also be doing my usual scumhunting, so do not fret. But we can be sure that Bill Murray will be posting frequently (hopefully not too much) and will be active in his duties, especially given what I've said above. Is kitaman only going to make 2 posts a day if he gets elected in? Maybe. Will Bill Murray? No of course not. And we all know that the more someone posts the more likely their true colors show. If Bill Murray turns out to be mafia it shouldn't be long before it becomes obvious. If he's not, we got an easily confirmed innocent in office who at the very least will make the entire mafia team facepalm. And a mafia team with their palms on their faces will be unable to type. You can make the right choice! Vote Bill Murray! + Show Spoiler + Yes I'm 100% serious Mattchew: "Wow, he really is a solid townie! Look at how he backs a questionable candidate who has not even posted yet. He might be scum, or he's a really good town player" Now, if you had alot of experience with foolishness, I could perhaps understand, but if this is your reasoning as a person who has not played with him, your reasons for him as town suck. ERGO you must be trolling. where did I say i believed foolishness was town? I just knew that he plays extremely well as town, + Show Spoiler + and I have no idea how to play this role. I took a risk and pm'd him. I will say that I have a town read on him but I am not going to claim that he is 100% town Oh, you're a mason, too? Jeez, my reading has been weak as shit this game. Sorry, guys, I promise to step it up. I thought you claimed townie, hence my facepalm at the start of the above post. | ||
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Elect Bill Murray 2012 Alright, before I go to sleep, I'd like to give my own reasoning for myself being mayor. My actions thus far have been to prove my being town, to scumhunt, and to try to pick up on associative tells. We need to get our shit together with all these mason claims. Are people open to me lynching a mason claim if I come into office? If so, I'll be lynching OpZ or Mattchew. BC put pressure on the mafia if he is an original mason. If BC was masoned by OpZ, though, everything changed in my opinion on that. If elected, I promise to sort out this mason business sooner rather than later, whereas the mafia will just put it off like CC said - they will be hunting for detectives, docs, and vigs I have been trying to refrain from spamming. Sorry for the 4-5 posts in a row, but I have a lot to catch up on, and I'm a vocal player. Am I not doing my best to scumhunt? I have been trying to clear people based on towntells, and trying to lynch people based on slips. I felt like I had a GREAT slip earlier from OpZ and BC, but then I realized, through Sheth's post, that OpZ had claimed mason. Like I said last paragraph, if elected, I'll handle that sooner rather than later. | ||
Bill Murray
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I didn't want to clutter up the thread with one line replies like I was doing, though, that's not good to do. I am going to catch up from my most recent campaign post when I wake up. I want to address something CC said right now, though. Masons and mafia are not at a point where they know enough information to decide what to do yet. They are the only people who have PMs right now, I'm pretty sure. Can mafia communicate during the day, where there are no PMs this game? Even if they can't, they have a neighbourizer like town do, and whether or not it's BC, ~OpZ~, or Mattchew I don't know. That is probably the town ones, and we have a mafia neighbourizer hanging out like Sandroba. That is who I would lynch for his scummy pushing of mason outting. I really don't like having the masons out at all for the mafia to "deal with" like you said. They are the mouths that we need to use | ||
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