Ghrur is scum :O
On August 02 2011 08:50 ghrur wrote:
Okay, so we weight the benefits of confirmed townie vs possibly hitting a townie.
Confirmed townie is definitely better. Have you heard how Ace talked about Masons in that Mafias #1 targets thread? It's because they're confirmed so easily. A confirmed townie is valuable, and that's just 1 person less to shoot at.
Furthermore, even hitting a townie can give us a lot of information for our first official lynch. It also gives us new information to re-evaluate our thoughts.
If he dies because mafia stacks, all the better. This means, if we miss, we killed 1 extra townie day 1, but also saved 1 extra townie night 1. Pretty even. If the Day Vig doesn't shoot, there is a chance that he gets sniped night 1, especially with all the talk about him.
I think it's beneficial to have him shoot. The problem is... is there a Day Vig? o.O
K so he's for the plan, but he WANTS TO LYNCH FOR INFORMATION. NEVER LYNCH FOR INFORMATION HOLY SHIT.
He also say's that it's good that the confirmed townie will die...which was the whole issue with the plan.
On August 02 2011 09:08 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 09:00 Curu wrote:On August 02 2011 08:54 redFF wrote:On August 02 2011 08:51 Curu wrote:
Huh? I don't understand your post. The confirmed Townie tells the player who he is going to shoot or protect, he doesn't tell all Medics what every Medic is doing.
Since we know how much KP Mafia has I very much doubt any of them are going to be able to claim Vig. So you want one townie conducting every single vig hit/medic protect/hatter bomb? k here's an example. Mafia-I will be protecting player x Confirmed townie-no someone else is protecting him. now mafia know's to not hit player x. I would be more open to this plan day 2 or 3. But all i see is 2 townies getting lynched and losing a dayvig and that person most likely dying the next night. No, it goes like this: Mafia-I will be protecting player x Confirmed townie-stfu I choose who you protect, you'll be protecting player y Mafia-Okay... Yup, and if Mafia shoots player Y, and player Y dies, then clearly the medic isn't a medic but is mafia. :/ So if mafia tries to be medic, it effectively hurts them.
Still supports the plan, but here he actually makes a nonsensical point. Nobody was suggesting the mafia would claim protecting someone and then shoot them instead...
On August 03 2011 17:35 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 12:42 JeeJee wrote:
actually screw it let's get the ball rolling.
anyone disagree with drazerk as a candidate? Yeah, I do. I played with Drazerk AA and he acted the same way. If I recall, it was basically a "Lynch Wiggles" post and then afk. I'm down for either varpulis or Kenpachi. I don't get why sandroba's supposed to have seemed town. I mean, looking back on the plan, I realize it's incredibly bad.
and this post by sandroba
docH, how is the simple fact that it's no longer day1 is going to make lynches more acurate down the line? If we can speed up the process and basically skip night 1 how is it possibly bad for town?
What? He knows better than this. So the plan basically becomes let's out the dayvig and give mafia a free blue. :/
This is his very next post. Disagrees with a Drazerk lynch, and gives fucking awful meta reason to do so. This is not like AA at all lol.
Here is the most important thing though. His last 3 posts were all behind the plan 100%!!! But now, with no explanation apart from, the plan sucks. He comes out and calls Sandroba scummy and says the plan is terrible. Did your mafia buddies tell you to do this in the QT????
On August 04 2011 07:21 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 07:19 youngminii wrote:On August 04 2011 07:18 ghrur wrote:
Wow, towns are getting better at Day 1. :O or scum is getting worse Don't be a pessimist. I support the shooting of JeeJee
He hasn't mentioned JeeJee at all before, yet posts saying he wants him shot with NO REASONING.
also
SCUMSLIP ALERT SCUMSLIP ALERT SCUMSLIP ALERT
He says Don't be a pessimist in response to YM saying that scum is getting worse. Actual "scumslips" are very rare, but i'm fairly certain I just found one.
On August 04 2011 08:19 ghrur wrote:Redff: Yes, I understand lynching for information was bad. I was making the point that losing 3 townies is losing 3 townies until I realized day-vigis get 2 shots so we still effectively lose a vigi, and later shots are more accurate. Why did I change positions? I argued with DrH about this in Mafia IRC and reconsidered my position. Show nested quote +
Still supports the plan, but here he actually makes a nonsensical point. Nobody was suggesting the mafia would claim protecting someone and then shoot them instead...
Neither was I... I was stating how fake-claims by mafia would hurt them under the plan... Like, do you not understand that that was a continuation of thought from what Curu said? >_> Also, you're tunneling by the third "point." Did you not read "looking back?" I re-evaluated my position. Would you like to hear why I realize it's a bad plan? A. It lures out a confirmed townie and ends up with him getting shot. B. We lose a vigi shot early with the opportunity cost of getting a better shot later on. C. Vigis get 2 shots, so even if Dayvig dies, it's not a confirmed townie that dies, but a confirmed blue. D. Instead of ending up with 3 greens dead if mafia stacks, we end up with 2 greens dead and 1 blue dead. Much worse. So what does this effectively do? Lure out a blue for mafia to kill! Why would Sandroba suggest such a plan then! Why was I stupid enough to support it? Because I was stupid. I never mentioned JeeJee before... except in IRC and talking about it to TAA. Guess what? I also find Munk-E scummy but I've never mentioned him before in thread either. I don't post everything I think.
K, so first of all he said he re-evauluated his position, but at the time gave no reasons why, just "realized it was a bad plan" After i call him out on this though he regurgitates a bunch of reasons already made multiple times in the thread. GJ DUDE.
K apparently he's been doing lots of scumhunting and has thought about JEEJEE and MUnk-e but is not posting it in the thread. I SWEAR GUYS IVE BEEN ACTIVELY SCUMHUNTING AND THINKING ABOUT PLAYERS BUT I WONT POST MY THOUGHTS IN THE THREAD.
This is ridiculous, here's where it gets really awesome.
Then i posted this
On August 04 2011 08:23 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 08:19 ghrur wrote:Redff: Yes, I understand lynching for information was bad. I was making the point that losing 3 townies is losing 3 townies until I realized day-vigis get 2 shots so we still effectively lose a vigi, and later shots are more accurate. Why did I change positions? I argued with DrH about this in Mafia IRC and reconsidered my position.
Still supports the plan, but here he actually makes a nonsensical point. Nobody was suggesting the mafia would claim protecting someone and then shoot them instead...
Neither was I... I was stating how fake-claims by mafia would hurt them under the plan... Like, do you not understand that that was a continuation of thought from what Curu said? >_> Also, you're tunneling by the third "point." Did you not read "looking back?" I re-evaluated my position. Would you like to hear why I realize it's a bad plan? A. It lures out a confirmed townie and ends up with him getting shot. B. We lose a vigi shot early with the opportunity cost of getting a better shot later on. C. Vigis get 2 shots, so even if Dayvig dies, it's not a confirmed townie that dies, but a confirmed blue. D. Instead of ending up with 3 greens dead if mafia stacks, we end up with 2 greens dead and 1 blue dead. Much worse. So what does this effectively do? Lure out a blue for mafia to kill! Why would Sandroba suggest such a plan then! Why was I stupid enough to support it? Because I was stupid. I never mentioned JeeJee before... except in IRC and talking about it to TAA. Guess what? I also find Munk-E scummy but I've never mentioned him before in thread either. I don't post everything I think. lol ur scum I got called scummy for talking about stuff on the public irc channel, your talking about all your reads in pms to a couple of people. that is scummy as fuck. Please post your thoughts on both JeeJee and Munk-E. you have 10 minutes because if you already talked about it to other then i assume you will be able to post about it..
On August 04 2011 08:25 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 08:23 redFF wrote:On August 04 2011 08:19 ghrur wrote:Redff: Yes, I understand lynching for information was bad. I was making the point that losing 3 townies is losing 3 townies until I realized day-vigis get 2 shots so we still effectively lose a vigi, and later shots are more accurate. Why did I change positions? I argued with DrH about this in Mafia IRC and reconsidered my position.
Still supports the plan, but here he actually makes a nonsensical point. Nobody was suggesting the mafia would claim protecting someone and then shoot them instead...
Neither was I... I was stating how fake-claims by mafia would hurt them under the plan... Like, do you not understand that that was a continuation of thought from what Curu said? >_> Also, you're tunneling by the third "point." Did you not read "looking back?" I re-evaluated my position. Would you like to hear why I realize it's a bad plan? A. It lures out a confirmed townie and ends up with him getting shot. B. We lose a vigi shot early with the opportunity cost of getting a better shot later on. C. Vigis get 2 shots, so even if Dayvig dies, it's not a confirmed townie that dies, but a confirmed blue. D. Instead of ending up with 3 greens dead if mafia stacks, we end up with 2 greens dead and 1 blue dead. Much worse. So what does this effectively do? Lure out a blue for mafia to kill! Why would Sandroba suggest such a plan then! Why was I stupid enough to support it? Because I was stupid. I never mentioned JeeJee before... except in IRC and talking about it to TAA. Guess what? I also find Munk-E scummy but I've never mentioned him before in thread either. I don't post everything I think. lol ur scum I got called scummy for talking about stuff on the public irc channel, your talking about all your reads in pms to a couple of people. that is scummy as fuck. Please post your thoughts on both JeeJee and Munk-E. you have 10 minutes because if you already talked about it to other then i assume you will be able to post about it.. What? I talked about it in the public IRC channel except for TAA whom i just talked in IRC privately. And to be honest, I don't really care. Lol. I'm not gonna bullshit an analysis in 10 minutes to protect you so you can tunnel me harder.
It wouldnt be bullshit if you have already discussed these players in length outside the thread would it? Stalling for time mr.scum....
On August 04 2011 11:32 ghrur wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2011 08:53 redFF wrote:
alanismorisette:
ghrur ur mafia too stfu
[7:57pm] alanismorisette:
post that analysis
[7:57pm] alanismorisette:
its not bullshit if you have already discussed it with people
[7:57pm] alanismorisette:
just post what you talked about with them
[7:57pm] alanismorisette:
quick!
[7:57pm] ghrur:
It's been past 10 minutes
[7:57pm] ghrur:
My deadline is gone
[7:58pm] ghrur:
and I wanna play basketball
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
...
[7:58pm] ghrur:
Besides, I already said
[7:58pm] chaos13 joined the chat room.
[7:58pm] ghrur:
I didn't save the chat log
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
doesnt matter
[7:58pm] ghrur:
Ask TAA if he has it
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
just post the gist of ur position on them
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
easy
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
just do that for me
[7:58pm] ghrur:
Sure, I'll do it
[7:58pm] ghrur:
But I'd rather play basketball
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
...
[7:58pm] ghrur:
I'll post it afterwards kay?
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
do it please
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
no
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
now
[7:58pm] ghrur:
No, real life > mafia
[7:58pm] alanismorisette:
im sorry but everyone is seeing this right
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
it will take
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
like 5 minutes
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
dude
[7:59pm] youngmin:
i'm laughing my ass off
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
you could have finished it by now
[7:59pm] ghrur:
??? YM?
[7:59pm] ghrur:
Cya later
[7:59pm] ghrur:
<3
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
but instead you are gonna go think about it
[7:59pm] ghrur:
I'll post it after
[7:59pm] youngmin:
lolololol
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
then post it
[7:59pm] alanismorisette:
...
[7:59pm] ghrur:
Yes, I didn't need to think about my defense
[7:59pm] ghrur:
<3
[7:59pm] ghrur:
Cya
[8:00pm] alanismorisette:
...
fuck this guy HAHAHAHAHAHA, sorry red. xD No, I really did go play basketball, hahaha. I didn't mean any ill will. Hahahaha. I'm glad YM had a good laugh though. Besides, 10 minutes had passed and nothing happened.  Anyway, down to business. Why Munk-E? + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [monk-e's analysis] +On August 03 2011 07:21 Munk-E wrote:Below is some analysis of varpulis' posts i'll do more people later. Show nested quote +Alright guys, it's game on. I'd like to start with a suggestion. It's very basic, but very vital.
Vig's, be you day or night, holster your gun and try to ignore the itch of your trigger finger. This holds true in every game, but it's especially important in this one. Look at the role list, and see how much kp we potentially have in the game. Every vig role has two shots, half of them can shoot during the day. That's a lot of kp that will be a lot more useful later on.
Dayvigs: If you must shoot, claim and let us discuss. If you're willing to shoot, make sure that you've got approval from the town. Gut shots are wrong as often as they're right.
Hatters: You guys are special, because even if the scumbag mafia doesn't kill you, your bob-ombs will still go off. You also can't move them, so I don't think it's a smart idea to place them from the get go. Wait a day/night cycle, at least. It's for the good of everybody.
With that said, let's get to the game and kill us some scum. As an aside, i'm currently very dissapointed that Kurumi didn't give me my favorite class, though I guess it can't be helped, he wasn't in the game anyways. Here he says to not shoot day 1, unless you want to that is, then just reveal your plan forcing you to shoot anyways because you're gonna die, because you revealed your role. I don't see his opinion, because he keeps changing it in this post. at the beginning he says to not shoot, as always and it is especially important in this game, followed by him saying it's okay for dayvigs to shoot. Furthermore he tells them to claim before shooting! Claiming is a death sentence, and it means they'd have to shoot to take people down with them, because they're gonna die anyway. As an aside, does anyone know what his favorite role is? Show nested quote +My only real qualm about the plan is the possibility of 2 dead townies day 1, but I don't see a huge problem with setting up a town circle around a confirmed dayvig.
People shouldn't be expecting shitloads of blues though. If we have a medic, which we might not, (21 players, remember) they will be tied up making sure the only confirmed player doesn't kick the bucket.
Nothing should be shared in IRC that would not be shared in thread, by the way. If our confirmed town wants to direct blues or if people want to claim to him, do it in PMs, for the love of god, and don't start talking in thread or irc like you're a confirmed blue.
The only one who should know is the confirmed townie. Information leaks kills blues in PM games.
Should we use the plan, I suggest a very simple system: vote normally. Whoever has the most votes dies. So, here he fully supports the plan again despite his own extra important rule of not shooting day 1. He first says no shooting, then says maybe IF you make sure your going to get yourself killed, and finally now he's all for it! Show nested quote +Anybody who is publicly known to be controlling the blues/leading the town is going to get shot eventually, especially if they've got kp.
I'll eat my hat if we've got more than 1 medic in a 20 player game. Here he will eat his hat if his plan that he loves so much which goes against his extra important rule actually works... Show nested quote +hmm, it's a good point actually.
A serious question: Do you guys think we'll have a better chance of killing scum if we do this day 1?
If we can kill scum it's worth it (durr) but otherwise I have a safer suggestion:
Why don't we wait until there are only 2 mafia left. That way they can't doublestack and we don't lose a blue role night 1. this is after being asked why he likes the plan after he gave his own piece of evidence against it (above)! He gives no answer. Instead, he reverts to a compromise of his beloved plan. and no varpulis, it's a 20% chance. I'm not willing to take that risk, especially because it's roughly the same odds we'll hit a blue. Show nested quote +I'm fairly sure that i'm not scum, unless I have a serious problem with reading pms.
RedFF I'm not so sure on. I'm leaning scum because he started off his "no plan" campaign without evidence or an argument, and then just picked up DrH's and copied it, it seems.
That said, I don't disagree with DrH. Our confirmed townie will be dead night 1, and we'll be back to square one, possibly with 2 dead townies. Again, the plan is really good, but only if we wait for mafia to not have enough kp to override the medic protect we will most likely be able to slap on the confirmed townie.
To address Mig's accusation: In irc sandroba didn't explain his plan entirely. I read it as "double lynch day 1" period. That in itself is very bad. The good part of the plan is the confirmed townie. When he posted and explained that point, It sounded good.
Then I realized that mafia can double stack and just kill the confirmed townie, it sounded bad again, until i figured out a solution.
Is there a real reason that we need to use the plan right now? With patience, it will work better, i guarantee. Here his is accusing redff for taking the position of the argument HE'S taking! (Maybe he lost track by now!) It seems like he's just trying to accuse someone for the sake of accusing! Wishy-washy doesn't even begin to explain this. He just won't make up his mind! While I'm not sure this indicates him 100% as being scum, it is VERY suspicious. Unfortunately however, I don't think it's possible to brand him as scum from JUST this. but he's certainly quite possibly scum. On August 03 2011 07:34 Lucidity wrote:I think you missed one of Varpulis' important posts Munk-E: Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 03:23 Varpulis wrote:On August 03 2011 02:43 Mig wrote:
Varp every post you make screams wishy washy to me. Where is the confident Varpulis I have played with in the past? Every opinion you give you list the pros and cons and then you end up taking a pretty neutral stance. I haven't seen you have a strong opinion of anything yet.
If you had to vote for someone right now who would it be for and why? Do you find anyone besides red scummy? I got called out for wishy washiness in PTP (day 1) as well. Day 1 nothing is solid, there's rarely anything to base arguments off of until late in the day, and I'm usually focused on proving my activity, not calling people scum. I haven't taken a stance because I don't have a really strong feeling about anybody yet. By the way, if we're going ahead with the plan, could we have a soldier/sniper claim? If there are none we need to reevaluate. Well, in his analysis of Varpulis, notice first that he misses an important post which Lucidity points out. He seemed to be doing a post-by-post style analysis (which btw, is bad), yet misses that important post? Why? To hid Varpulis's scumminess. To be nicer to his teammate. Also notice in this analysis how adamant he is with the attack on Varpulis. He uses multiple exclamation points, capitalization for emphasis, and even calls him VERY suspicious. BUT WAIT! He backs out of it. Notice: I'm not sure this indicates him 100% as being scum but he's certainly quite possibly scum. Certainly quite possibly scum. LOL. I have never seen more wishy-washyness than that. Hahaha, god. That's just backing out of it completely man. Oh, and notice how there's no vote until nearly the end of the day, probably to bus. Oh, and he never votes in the voting thread (booooooooooo). Now, on Munk-E's next analysis, his style totally changes! Someone in Loonybin pointed this out: Munk-E's posts go like this - 1. Stuff about plan. 2. Play-by-play "analysis" 3. Normal, concise analysis. How does one person's posting style change that much? I don't know, seems like he has a team behind him. Look at his arguments as well. Are they new? Are they original? Or are they just parroting OriginalName? Yeah, they're just parroting ON's analysis that Varp was wishy-washy. Note this remark too. On August 04 2011 03:53 Munk-E wrote:He seems VERY eager to get everyone's opinion on everyone, he PMed me asking my opinion on chaos and varp, to which i responded blandly and generically. I don't get why that's bad. It's good that Mig is trying to get people's opinions out and into the open. It's also good that he's pressuring people and using PMs well. Calling that scummy is just trying to stifle PMs and opinions. On August 04 2011 03:53 Munk-E wrote:I don't see why activity is a "town" thing to do. and why lurking is a mafia thing really, especially if being a lurker makes them suspected as being mafia. (Meta, huh?) Anyway, i might vote for him depending on if i think lucidity is more scummy or not Activity is of course good for town because this means we get more to analyze. Stifling activity and supporting lurking is just trying to ruin the town atmosphere. Mig did nothing wrong, even with his words, yet he's attacking him randomly. Why? Why is he also jumping from person to person and throwing out random accusations that don't even make sense? Why doesn't h vote for either of the people he analyzed? To get the town in chaos. To get votes off of Varpulis. Also, if he suspected Lucidity, why doesn't he analyze HIM instead? Now, keep this in mind when you read this: On August 04 2011 06:33 Munk-E wrote:
TBH, It would have been a toss up between varp and lucid for me, but I haven't done proper analysis of lucid, so voting for him would look VERY suspicious. I think both are scum anyway. Where is Mig in this equation? Why wouldn't he mention Mig if he did a full blown analysis calling him suspicious? That makes no sense... unless he did it just to seem town. If he found Lucid suspicious, he should've analyzed Lucidity first instead of going after Mig. Unless he's just trying to cast doubt, out one of our top scumhunters, seem town in the process through analysis posts, and end up not voting for them until the end of the day. :/ Yeah, seems about right. Now, onto JeeJee. + Show Spoiler +On August 03 2011 01:41 JeeJee wrote:
pressure votes are stupid, where did this trend come from? you know when you say "yeah this is a pressure vote", that's pretty much equivalent to "idk who to vote so i'm voting you, but i'm not actually suspicious of you because all you need to do is say something and i'll remove my vote from you".
nobody can seriously feel threatened from a pressure vote, so there's no 'pressure' it's just a throwaway vote Okay, this post was stupid. yes, pressure votes are bad. No, you do not need to point them out. If the person being pressured doesn't know this, they might slip up. Now that he knows this, the chances are lessened. Why would you post this? It provides no benefit to town, and only serves to help mafia. I'm not arguing against the logic here, but the purpose. It serves no good purpose. i see re-evaluation there, not wishy-washiness. do you see otherwise? random fos are just as useless as pressure votes. sandro and varp are both bad in that department as far as i'm concerned. by itself though, it doesn't mean much, and there's nothing else yet.
as for me, i don't have scum leanings on anyone. town leans yes, scum leans no. Defense of Varp, and aside from that, no information really. I mean, he seems to suspect YM at this point, but doesn't say anything about it. Not even a scum lean? Really? Hmmmmm, Idk. still not voting, but i'll be here before the deadline tomorrow, no worries. Wishy washyyyyyyyyyyy. Yeah... why would you call someone scum and then not vote? I don't know. On August 03 2011 12:42 JeeJee wrote:
actually screw it let's get the ball rolling.
anyone disagree with drazerk as a candidate? Why would you ask if other people disagree? Who cares if other people disagree? You still push them anyway. They'll voice their disagreements anyway. Do you need town's permission or something? No! So why all the caution? Serves no purpose. On August 04 2011 05:14 JeeJee wrote:
i still think the case against varp is terrible. it's pretty much equivalent to redff's case, which is equally bad. drazerk is still deliberately avoiding this thread while posting in others but sadly not enough people care. seems to be off to a wonderful start. This is just saying, yes, you lynched a mafia, but you're still not off to a good start. It doesn't mean much. Well, why wouldn't it? We lynched scum, we have voting records, and we have defenses. He defended Varp. He's trying to justify it in this post. He's trying to throw off suspicion. I don't like it. He also shifts the attention off the Varp lynch and onto Drazerk again. Why do that? The lynch means a lot since a red just died. Focus on it. :/ Seems like he's throwing doubt around with that remark.
After waiting a couple of hours to actually make analysis's of these 2 players. He basically regurgitates what others (BC) have said about jeejee and then calls pbpas bad and does 2 lol. All his points about other players being scum come down to them being "wishy washy". Shitty post. Shitty analysis.
On August 04 2011 11:37 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 11:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
really you pick munke over sevryn or bc Idk what BC's up to to be honest.
More evidence as to how these guys are scumbuddies.
On August 05 2011 02:52 ghrur wrote:He also calls him out for being wishy-washy, against meta, and scummy. Meanwhile, he says Drazerk's meta doesn't fit his scum. Idk why a vote wasn't placed on Varp by him unless he is scum.
That's literally the only way you scumhunt and all the reasons you use for calling people scum and then you call someone else out on it.
Please read and reread this this bitch be mafia broz
##Vote Ghrur
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp268/Silver_Cloud/mccoyDeadThread.jpg)
