Mafia is a deceitful game. It’s a game of how many people you can trick. The objective of the game is to kill all mafia members before they do the same to you.
Either you’re screwing others, or you’re being screwed. Nothing Personal. Just business + Show Spoiler +
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account / looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Spam: Spam is encouraged, so is off-topic material. Do discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, you will be warned. If you choose to ignore the warning, you will be modkilled and banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate.
Play to win.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote LSB. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. You may vote for ##Vote No Lynch 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses). 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain.
Signups:
Signups will remain open until enough people sign up that are not in any other games.
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment.
Game-specific rules:
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a (24 hour night/48 hour) day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 11:00KST, but that is subject to change.
Money You start out with 1,000,000.00 Kronos. I will reply to all PMs with an update on how much Kronos you have.
Contracts
Roles There are 8 Town aligned, 3 Mafia aligned and 1 Serial Killer. Each group's primary win condition is to completely eliminate the competition.
Alignment: Town Ability:You have no ability, sorry Inventory:You have 2 RPGs. RPGs may be used as a KP, or with a KP in order to break a bulletproof protection (Two RPGs may be used at once) However, you are unwilling to get your hands dirty so you cannot use the RPGs. Current Inventory: 2 RPGs. 1,000,000 Kronos.
Unless stated otherwise, you can use items whenever you want I will not tell you what an item does. So buy wisely
FAQ Does mafia have KP? Yes, 1 KP a night
What happens to dead players? Their money and items are destroyed
Will there be awards? Of course!
Can I throw Items away? Yes Just send me a contract For Example + Show Spoiler +
LSB Artanis[Xp] 1 RPG
LSB Banking reserves the right to refuse to accept certain items
Is money actually worth anything? Yes, some abilities require money to work.
Credits: Thanks RoL! And everyone else who help made mafia possible
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance! More help If you want to have an idea of how Merc Mico works, you can check out the first game, located here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181882
In addition, you may want to see how a contract game would run. Here is the quicktopic for the Black Market minigame of Insane Mafia 2 http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/VGB7VwXXbib
There are a few changes
1) New items, also addition of roles. 2) The game will NOT be in real time. Contracts will be fulfilled at the end of the day. Actions will be completed at the end of the night. 3) The game has been modified so it is much slower than the action packed first game 4) Punishment for a non-fulfilled contract will be much more severe. 5) Contracts cost 10,000 Kronos as a transaction fee
All Financial tool and transaction will be carried out by LSB Banking (You should still PM LSB for your contracts). This means that LSB Banking can only see actions + Show Spoiler [Explination] +
Think of LSB Banking as the 12th player with this role PM
Alignment: Mod Ability: You can transfer items on a players request Inventory:You have an invincibility token. With the invincibility token you cannot be the target of actions and cannot be lynched Current Inventory: Invincibility token.
So what can LSB Banking see? Actually less than you can. For example, lets say you put this contract
Syllogism Gives all his items and money if Syllogism is mafia LSB Gets killed if LSB is mafia
There are multiple problems with this contract 1) LSB Banking cannot tell the alignment of players until they filp, just like you 2) Since LSB Banking does not know a person's inventory, Syllogism can hand over three cents and lie and say that it's "all his money" 3) LSB Banking doesn't have any KP, so he can't kill LSB.
In order for a transaction to process, both parties must PM me identical contracts, and I will approve of the contract. All transactions will be carried out at the end of the day.
If you cannot fulfill a contract, bad things will happen to you
LSB Banking Industries is not responsible for losses due to poorly written contracts
Financial Instruments
Name: The Contract Cost: 10,000 Kronos for each player Use: To transfer items, goods, services, or anything else between two players Form:+ Show Spoiler +
[Party 1] [Terms]
[Party 2] [Terms]
For example
LSB Pay 2,000,000 Kronos Artanis[Xp] Kill Foolishness before the start of day 3
Name: The Trust Cost: 100,000 From Trust funds Use: To share items, goods, services, or anything else between two players Form:+ Show Spoiler +
Create a trust Name: (a name) Conditions: (conditions for use of items)
(Player 1) (Items deposited)
(Player 2) (Items deposited)
For example:
Create a trust Name: LSB Holdings Conditions: Artanis[Xp] may only use the money to fund narcotics missions LSB may only use the drugs for personal usage
LSB 1,000,000 Kronos
Artanis[Xp] 2 doses of Murryamine
Restrictions: In this run of Merc Mafia, only 2 players can be in a trust. FAQ: + Show Spoiler +
What do Trustee's know about the item? They only can see what the item is What happens if a Trustee dies? Well the other Trustee can do whatever they want with the items, because the first trustee is no longer alive to lodge a formal complaint.
Name: The Testament Cost: 20,000 per Day/Night Cycle Use: To distribute your items after your death Form:+ Show Spoiler +
The Testament (Whatever you want)
For example
The Testament Give all my money to RoL Give my RPGs to Artanis[Xp]
Name: Formal Complaint Cost: Free Use: To punish someone for break a financial instrument Form:+ Show Spoiler +
LSB Pay 2,000,000 Kronos Artanis[Xp] Kill Foolishness before the start of day 3
Violation: It's day 3 right now. Foolishness is alive
What can be used as proof: Things LSB Banking can see, IE who's alive, who voted for what ect ect. In addition PMs and Posts by the persons in the transaction can be used as proof.
Signups will remain open until enough people sign up that are not in any other games.
You can still sign up, and a spot will be reserved for you.
Basically what will happen when the signups are filled is that I will start looking at what other games the players are in. Once almost everyone is out of the games they are playing (or I believe the person can handle 2 games at once) the game will officially start and role PMs will be sent out.
On July 06 2011 11:17 OriginalName wrote: ...BUT I WANNA PLAY IN ARKHAM QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ GOD I LOVED THE BM IN INSANE 2! WHYYYYYY.
Same here, not sure whether or not I should join. If I do, and don't feel like making a player actions graph in Asylum, people can't accuse me of scum because I can just say that I have two games to play.
So if I wanted to get Player A killed, I would approach Player B (let's say I know he is able to use his RPG) and we would work out a contract. We would then PM you with something like the following:
chaos13 Provide Player B with 200,000 Kronos upon completion of contract Player B Kill Player A by Day 3
And if I didn't have the funds or Player B failed to kill Player A, we would be punished? And these contracts can extend to pretty much anything, votes, items, kills....?
On July 07 2011 07:12 chaos13 wrote: So if I wanted to get Player A killed, I would approach Player B (let's say I know he is able to use his RPG) and we would work out a contract. We would then PM you with something like the following:
chaos13 Provide Player B with 200,000 Kronos upon completion of contract Player B Kill Player A by Day 3
And if I didn't have the funds or Player B failed to kill Player A, we would be punished? And these contracts can extend to pretty much anything, votes, items, kills....?
On July 12 2011 01:07 syllogism wrote: Do you get informed if the other person does not send the contract PM to the host?
Indeed, I'll help you guys setup contracts, that means that I'll PM you guys (to a certain degree) if contracts are not complete / not the same / doesn't do what you think they should do.
New Rule: LSB Banking will charge a service fee of 10,000 Kronos for each contract it handles at the end of the day. (I'm greedy :D)
Do the contract terms have to involve actions or can they be statements as well? I'm assuming the former as this would be too breakable otherwise
e: what I'm saying here is that since town outnumbers mafia, there's no anonymity and town will know if someone doesn't agree to send the contract, they can completely control what kind of contracts get made
On July 12 2011 01:20 syllogism wrote: Do the contract terms have to involve actions or can they be statements as well? I'm assuming the former as this would be too breakable otherwise
To help you think about it, I've gone onto an alt account. All contracts will be carried out by me, LSB Banking (You should still PM LSB for your contracts).
Think of LSB Banking as the 12th player with this role PM
Alignment: Mod Ability: You can transfer items on a players request Inventory:You have an invincibility token. With the invincibility token you cannot be the target of actions and cannot be lynched Current Inventory: Invincibility token.
So what can LSB Banking see? Actually less than you can. For example, lets say you put this contract
Syllogism Gives all his items and money if Syllogism is mafia LSB Gets killed if LSB is mafia
There are multiple problems with this contract 1) LSB Banking cannot tell the alignment of players until they filp, just like you 2) Since LSB Banking does not know a person's inventory, Syllogism can hand over three cents and lie and say that it's "all his money" 3) LSB Banking doesn't have any KP, so he can't kill LSB.
LSB Pay 2,000,000 Kronos Artanis[Xp] Kill Foolishness before the start of day 3
presumably as long as Foolishness died before day 3 the contract is valid. Artanis doesn't actually have to do the killing, since LSB Banking wouldn't know who did the night kill anyways.
On July 12 2011 01:07 syllogism wrote: Do you get informed if the other person does not send the contract PM to the host?
Indeed, I'll help you guys setup contracts, that means that I'll PM you guys (to a certain degree) if contracts are not complete / not the same / doesn't do what you think they should do.
New Rule: LSB Banking will charge a service fee of 10,000 Kronos for each contract it handles at the end of the day. (I'm greedy :D)
1 more person till game starts! Quick signup!
So does the initiator of the contract play you 10,000 Kronos, is it split evenly (5,000 each), or what?
LSB Pay 2,000,000 Kronos Artanis[Xp] Kill Foolishness before the start of day 3
presumably as long as Foolishness died before day 3 the contract is valid. Artanis doesn't actually have to do the killing, since LSB Banking wouldn't know who did the night kill anyways.
Indeed.
Financial Instrument: The Trust What is a trust? A trust is an agreement between two players to share resources under certain situations. What happens is that the players send their items into a new bank account under LSB Banking. LSB Banking will allow players to use the items and money whenever they want. Should the other player in the trust provide proof that their contract was violated, the violator will be punished
How many players can be in a trust In this run of Merc Mafia, only 2 players can be in a trust.
How do I set up a trust? In addition to a service fee of 100,000 Kronos. Both players have to PM me this
Create a trust Name: [a name] Conditions: [Conditions for use of items]
[Player 1] [Items deposited]
[Player 2] [Items deposited]
For example
Create a trust Name: LSB Holdings Conditions: Artanis[Xp] may only use the money to fund narcotics missions LSB may only use the drugs for personal usage
LSB 1,000,000 Kronos
Artanis[Xp] 2 doses of Murryamine
What do Trustee's know about the item? They only can see what the item is
What happens if a Trustee dies? Well the other Trustee can do whatever they want with the items, because the first trustee is no longer alive to lodge a formal complaint.
On July 12 2011 01:07 syllogism wrote: Do you get informed if the other person does not send the contract PM to the host?
Indeed, I'll help you guys setup contracts, that means that I'll PM you guys (to a certain degree) if contracts are not complete / not the same / doesn't do what you think they should do.
New Rule: LSB Banking will charge a service fee of 10,000 Kronos for each contract it handles at the end of the day. (I'm greedy :D)
1 more person till game starts! Quick signup!
So does the initiator of the contract play you 10,000 Kronos, is it split evenly (5,000 each), or what?
Should the other player in the trust provide proof that their contract was violated, the violator will be punished
Just to ask again, is this an 'in-game' punishment, like a ban on contracts or a financial penalty, or is this a modkillable offence. For Instance if I was mafia could I break a contract(say kill player A with an RPG instead of player B) in order to win the game(no penalty would be incurred since the game is over)? Or would I be modkilled instead?
Should the other player in the trust provide proof that their contract was violated, the violator will be punished
Just to ask again, is this an 'in-game' punishment, like a ban on contracts or a financial penalty, or is this a modkillable offence. For Instance if I was mafia could I break a contract(say kill player A with an RPG instead of player B) in order to win the game(no penalty would be incurred since the game is over)? Or would I be modkilled instead?
This would be an ingame punishment. Depending on the severity of the offence, it would run from 1) Forcible transfer of Items and Money 2) Contracts set upon the violators head. (LSB Banking will either hold an auction or set an bounty)
In your example, you would win, because the game would have ended for you.
On July 12 2011 07:54 sandroba wrote: Can a testament be a financial instrument?
Taking a note from last game. Last game there was a 'testament', say it was night 1. I would write a contract like this
LSB 1,000,000 Kronos Sandroba Return 1,000,000 Kronos the beginning of day 2
Sure I'll add a testament to the instruments. (I'll include it in post three). On your death I will distribute your items accordingly. However it costs 20,000 Kronos per day/night cycle
The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you. -Gordon Gekko
Day 1
There used to be a day post here, but I accidentally deleted it. I hope no one notices
To quote Gordon Gekko. “The point is ladies and gentlemen that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.”
Fear not, I've got that covered. I'm going to make public whomever sells me the BP vest. That way if I die(if the vest is bombed, or a fake), you can lynch the ass who sold me the vest.
That's a good plan in general; either inform a likely townie/thread about the purchase or make sure the contract is so specific the item in question can not be harmful
That was just general advice and I find it pretty unlikely there to be more than one, non-rigged at least, vest in the game. Would make it pretty hard for the scum team, especially if they don't have RPGs or something that can break them
If the guy has more than one bulletproof vest, can't the mafia just kill him, depriving us of the saves?
That's true. I'll admit that the safety of the seller wasn't my primary concern...
Wouldn't the seller be wearing his bulletproof vest though?
In the case where he's not allowed to wear his own vest, he could sell me both his vests, and I'll sell him one back(hopefully that would allow him to actually wear one).
On July 12 2011 19:40 syllogism wrote: That was just general advice and I find it pretty unlikely there to be more than one, non-rigged at least, vest in the game. Would make it pretty hard for the scum team, especially if they don't have RPGs or something that can break them
Why would you assume the scum team doesn't have an RPG?
On July 12 2011 19:40 syllogism wrote: That was just general advice and I find it pretty unlikely there to be more than one, non-rigged at least, vest in the game. Would make it pretty hard for the scum team, especially if they don't have RPGs or something that can break them
Why would you assume the scum team doesn't have an RPG?
I no longer see it in the OP but it did state at one point that if you did get an RPG you could not use it. You had to sell it to somebody else. If that statement is still there I don't see it. However if that is indeed the case then the likelihood of scum receiving one at the beginning of the game would seem to be rather low. If that is in the setup then scum would be forced to buy one. Or am I slowly going insane? Did anybody else see that?
So, we know a couple of things: There are 8 Townies(with various equipment or even roles) There are 3 Mafia Members(with various equipment or even roles) There is 1 Serial Killer Grand total of 12 players Anyway, we've got 4 anti-town people among us. That puts us in a 8 v 4 situation. Believe me or not, this might get tricky. Since we've got 2KP per night (assuming SK is not a sissy girl...), on Day 2 there will be only 9 players. Assuming worst case scenario, we'll be put in a 5 Townies vs 3 Mafia and 1 Serial Killer situation. Another mislynch and without some hero vigilante bullets and medic heals we're screwed at Night 2. That's why we MUST scum-hunt as hard as we can.
Since I hit post instead of "Preview" I must double-post. Well, I think announcing contracts in-thread might prove useful to us. Even basic information, "who and who" is something we can use. I suggest making Trust Contracts to confirmed people. After Your death, You will still be able to help us win the game!
Also, I believe we've got plenty of blue roles OR equipment. I would like You not to trade it before we get someone confirmed or at least in "Strong-Townie read" box.
Is easy. So here it goes: #1 We announce our contracts. The more information You give us, the bigger benefit for us. #2 We are not giving away our equipment before we've got strong townie reads with someone. #3 As fast we get confirmed Townie, we initiate a Trust contract with him so our items won't go into the Black Hole ^We should give this guy vests and medic prots as fast as possible too, we don't want our Bank to die -_- #4 We don't let ourselves get bossed around with contracts. Think before signing one.
On July 12 2011 19:25 Radfield wrote: Lets get down to brass tax: Who's selling me a bulletproof vest?
I may be in the market to buy up some votes for Day 1, PM me if interested.
But most importantly: Who wants to sell me an RPG
It's vitally important that I shoot someone with an RPG this game in order to maximize fun
So you're looking to buy votes on Day 1, the time in the game that it is least likely we will lynch scum. You also want an RPG, which provides you with additional means of killing someone, which also does not guarantee you will kill scum. Noted, you're going down on my suspect list.
On July 12 2011 22:16 Kurumi wrote:
Gentlemen
Lets revise couple of things, shall we?
THE SETUP
So, we know a couple of things: There are 8 Townies(with various equipment or even roles) There are 3 Mafia Members(with various equipment or even roles) There is 1 Serial Killer Grand total of 12 players Anyway, we've got 4 anti-town people among us. That puts us in a 8 v 4 situation. Believe me or not, this might get tricky. Since we've got 2KP per night (assuming SK is not a sissy girl...), on Day 2 there will be only 9 players. Assuming worst case scenario, we'll be put in a 5 Townies vs 3 Mafia and 1 Serial Killer situation. Another mislynch and without some hero vigilante bullets and medic heals we're screwed at Night 2. That's why we MUST scum-hunt as hard as we can.
Contributing without contributing. You did an awesome job of copy/pasting some stuff from the OP. You're going on my list with Radfield, and if you want to get off of it you had better start making posts of greater quality.
As an advertisement to business, I have defensive weapons to sell. If you are interested, PM me. Radfield and Kurumi are excluded from this because I am highly suspicious of them. If you are on my suspect list, I will not sell to you.
So, we know a couple of things: There are 8 Townies(with various equipment or even roles) There are 3 Mafia Members(with various equipment or even roles) There is 1 Serial Killer Grand total of 12 players Anyway, we've got 4 anti-town people among us. That puts us in a 8 v 4 situation. Believe me or not, this might get tricky. Since we've got 2KP per night (assuming SK is not a sissy girl...), on Day 2 there will be only 9 players. Assuming worst case scenario, we'll be put in a 5 Townies vs 3 Mafia and 1 Serial Killer situation. Another mislynch and without some hero vigilante bullets and medic heals we're screwed at Night 2. That's why we MUST scum-hunt as hard as we can.
Since I hit post instead of "Preview" I must double-post. Well, I think announcing contracts in-thread might prove useful to us. Even basic information, "who and who" is something we can use. I suggest making Trust Contracts to confirmed people. After Your death, You will still be able to help us win the game!
Also, I believe we've got plenty of blue roles OR equipment. I would like You not to trade it before we get someone confirmed or at least in "Strong-Townie read" box.
THE PLAN
Is easy. So here it goes: #1 We announce our contracts. The more information You give us, the bigger benefit for us. #2 We are not giving away our equipment before we've got strong townie reads with someone. #3 As fast we get confirmed Townie, we initiate a Trust contract with him so our items won't go into the Black Hole ^We should give this guy vests and medic prots as fast as possible too, we don't want our Bank to die -_- #4 We don't let ourselves get bossed around with contracts. Think before signing one.
Is easy. So here it goes: #1 We announce our contracts. The more information You give us, the bigger benefit for us. #2 We are not giving away our equipment before we've got strong townie reads with someone. #3 As fast we get confirmed Townie, we initiate a Trust contract with him so our items won't go into the Black Hole ^We should give this guy vests and medic prots as fast as possible too, we don't want our Bank to die -_- #4 We don't let ourselves get bossed around with contracts. Think before signing one.
Glued post, enjoy, sorry for spamming the thread.
I'll just point out the things I don't like about your plan.
#1: It also gives mafia more information. This may be a good idea, but there are some contracts that you do not want to make public. Use your discretion, and talk it over with the person involved in the contract. Make sure you both agree on whether or not to make it public before sending it to LSB.
#2: Hmm, no. I think it is in our best interests to distribute our equipment and work together. Holding back equipment means that if you get killed tonight, all of it is gone. I see no reason to put off contracts. It will benefit mafia more than it benefits us.
#3: Agreed. However, if that townie dies we end up with a big loss. Something needs to be put in place to help avoid this. Vests and protects are a good start.
@chaos13 #1: Well, maybe we should delay announcement by one Day then? The Mafia won't be able to snipe people off immediately based on info given on real-time.
#2: I am just scared that our equipment can land in bad hands, that's all.
#3: Yup, that's why we protect our bank as hard as possible.
Basically my entire plan is based on using brain and stuff, a good Town read on someone? Trade away! Scum read? You better not trade Your RPG -_- I understand that some contracts might be a part of a plan between two people - just make sure that it won't screw us over.
I'm back, so feel free to contact me for any reason; I'm interested in information as well. Contracts should only be announced in the threat if there's a very good reason. I think in general it's a bad idea because the information is much more useful for mafia as they know what kind of roles they've available and the alignment of the contracting parties (SK aside). It's far better to reveal the contracts in private to someone who you really trust. Pretty straightforward.
I just want to say this, I'm very much an IRC user. If anyone wants to discuss with me privately, please feel free to poke me on IRC, I'm authed as Palmar and I have a box that's always on, so just leave a message if I'm not at the keyboard at the time.
For the game, Kurumi basically put forward a plan that involved not being stupid. It's not a bad plan, but it screams "I'm trying to contribute" to me. I don't really like it. And I'm definitely not following it, if I see fit I will announce my contracts, but it will not be a rule.
On July 13 2011 00:19 Palmar wrote: I just want to say this, I'm very much an IRC user. If anyone wants to discuss with me privately, please feel free to poke me on IRC, I'm authed as Palmar and I have a box that's always on, so just leave a message if I'm not at the keyboard at the time.
For the game, Kurumi basically put forward a plan that involved not being stupid. It's not a bad plan, but it screams "I'm trying to contribute" to me. I don't really like it. And I'm definitely not following it, if I see fit I will announce my contracts, but it will not be a rule.
It also screams IM NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO WAW, but maybe im just being cynical.
On July 12 2011 19:25 Radfield wrote: Lets get down to brass tax: Who's selling me a bulletproof vest?
I may be in the market to buy up some votes for Day 1, PM me if interested.
But most importantly: Who wants to sell me an RPG
It's vitally important that I shoot someone with an RPG this game in order to maximize fun
So you're looking to buy votes on Day 1, the time in the game that it is least likely we will lynch scum. You also want an RPG, which provides you with additional means of killing someone, which also does not guarantee you will kill scum. Noted, you're going down on my suspect list.
yeah, I was trying to see if anyone would bite by offering to sell me their vote. It would peg them either as scum or as someone with a cash ability. In retrospect it was probably a bit too transparent.
As far as an RPG, it provides me with a means of killing someone, not an additional means. I play a patient, thoughtful style of mafia and have no intention of firing at the first player who pops on my scumdar. I am also fairly decent at finding reds, though I'll admit that I'm somewhat weak when it comes to PM games, which I don't normally join.
As an advertisement to business, I have defensive weapons to sell. If you are interested, PM me.
This seems like a risky thing to be posting in public. Surely it makes far more sense for you to be PMing players you have pro-town reads on rather than letting everyone know.
Is easy. So here it goes: #1 We announce our contracts. The more information You give us, the bigger benefit for us. #2 We are not giving away our equipment before we've got strong townie reads with someone. #3 As fast we get confirmed Townie, we initiate a Trust contract with him so our items won't go into the Black Hole ^We should give this guy vests and medic prots as fast as possible too, we don't want our Bank to die -_- #4 We don't let ourselves get bossed around with contracts. Think before signing one.
Glued post, enjoy, sorry for spamming the thread.
The only important point here is number three, which should be obvious.
We don't want to announce contracts in public. I find it likely that there are certain pro-town abilities(investigations, medics, etc) that require money to activate. It's important to keep mafia in the dark as to which players are buying and which are selling. Not to mention which players have which items.
On July 13 2011 00:36 Radfield wrote: yeah, I was trying to see if anyone would bite by offering to sell me their vote. It would peg them either as scum or as someone with a cash ability. In retrospect it was probably a bit too transparent.
a) no scum would ever fall for that. b) this is like creating a bad plan and then claiming you did it to see if you could catch scum who supported it. c) only a single person called you out on it and you folded. Are you really that afraid of being under suspicion?
On July 13 2011 00:36 Radfield wrote: I am also fairly decent at finding reds, though I'll admit that I'm somewhat weak when it comes to PM games, which I don't normally join.
meh. I put that into my post on a whim, thinking it would be interesting to see if anyone was eager either for a) money or b) an excuse to get rid of their vote. Rest assured, there is no way I would buy someones vote on Day 1.
Your points a) and c) go together. The reason I folded is because it was a bad plan and no one was going to bother PMing me, particularly after chaos13 pointed it out. There's no need to let things like that fester in peoples minds, so I addressed it. Makes sense?
Every player in every mafia game ever should be 'afraid' of being under suspicion, at least in the sense that you should do what you can to appear town-aligned and not get mislynched. Oozing green is the best trait any pro-town player can have.
On July 13 2011 01:00 Radfield wrote: Every player in every mafia game ever should be 'afraid' of being under suspicion, at least in the sense that you should do what you can to appear town-aligned and not get mislynched. Oozing green is the best trait any pro-town player can have.
Also Radfield.. On the page 5 You said You'll announce who sold You the BP vest, but on this page You say we shouldn't announce contracts at all. It's a contradiction.
On July 13 2011 01:08 Kurumi wrote: Also Radfield.. On the page 5 You said You'll announce who sold You the BP vest, but on this page You say we shouldn't announce contracts at all. It's a contradiction.
It really depends on the scenario for gaining the item.
I think the system should go something like this,
Do I think the Item is boobied?
If yes - Announce the damned contract
if no - Keep it to yourself.
Otherwise if your really scared about secrecy or weather its announced or not just write it in the contract that said person will announce that he has completed it with another player.
Can you just ask the other party to include full description of the item in the contract and once LSB banking gets the item, it will see if it matches said description? If the description doesn't match, the contract terminates automatically and items are returned. Should ask LSB to clarify if that's possible
On July 12 2011 19:25 Radfield wrote: Lets get down to brass tax: Who's selling me a bulletproof vest?
I may be in the market to buy up some votes for Day 1, PM me if interested.
But most importantly: Who wants to sell me an RPG
It's vitally important that I shoot someone with an RPG this game in order to maximize fun
So you're looking to buy votes on Day 1, the time in the game that it is least likely we will lynch scum. You also want an RPG, which provides you with additional means of killing someone, which also does not guarantee you will kill scum. Noted, you're going down on my suspect list.
yeah, I was trying to see if anyone would bite by offering to sell me their vote. It would peg them either as scum or as someone with a cash ability. In retrospect it was probably a bit too transparent.
As far as an RPG, it provides me with a means of killing someone, not an additional means. I play a patient, thoughtful style of mafia and have no intention of firing at the first player who pops on my scumdar. I am also fairly decent at finding reds, though I'll admit that I'm somewhat weak when it comes to PM games, which I don't normally join.
As an advertisement to business, I have defensive weapons to sell. If you are interested, PM me.
This seems like a risky thing to be posting in public. Surely it makes far more sense for you to be PMing players you have pro-town reads on rather than letting everyone know.
Will the violator of said breaching item be punished if the other party dies before he can file a complaint? LSB banking will at least know the transferred item didn't match the contract terms
Oh I suppose you could include a contract term that stipulates the other party will be found to be in breach of contract if the party who receives the item dies before the end of the night. Remember, contracts are fulfilled at the end of the day, so at least there won't be night kills messing up with that. Then you would have time to file for a breach before night ends, or if you die the other party will be punished.
I'm pretty sure LSB Banking can tell the identity of an object, but is unable to tell anything about the condition of that object.
If someone gives you a bulletproof vest, LSB will know it's a bulletproof vest, but is unable to tell if it's super powerful, broken, booby trapped etc. So you can't say to someone you're giving him a bulletproof vest, but really you're just giving him a gun, a flower, a book or a goddamn RPG.
Anyway, stop trying to find holes in the rules and go play mafia.
Guys, are we going for inactive lynch or scummiest person lynch Day 1? Also Radfield smells worse and worse for me.. PM trap without good enough skills (thanks Palmar) Role fishing (thanks Jackal58) Contradiction about BP (possible trap for future?) Wanted to buy: BP Votes (said it was a trap) RPG
Also, I'm pretty sure you can't include punishments in the contracts, especially something like mod-kills. That'd be stupid. If either party breaches the contract, then I'd simply assume the contract is considered invalid.
These aren't holes in the rules, figuring out contracts that benefit your team is a very important aspect of the game, as suggested by that quote about there being no limitations
On July 13 2011 01:50 Kurumi wrote: Guys, are we going for inactive lynch or scummiest person lynch Day 1? Also Radfield smells worse and worse for me.. PM trap without good enough skills (thanks Palmar) Role fishing (thanks Jackal58) Contradiction about BP (possible trap for future?) Wanted to buy: BP Votes (said it was a trap) RPG
I don't like lynching Radfield day 1, hes generally a very good player as such hes been killed N1 of alot of games recently (PYPI was the exception as he picked bulletproof) for good reason.
PM trap without good enough skills (thanks Palmar)
This is stupid, just because he says hes not good at PM games doesnt mean it takes alot of skill to lay a pm trap. Its just knowing how to play mafia in a reasonable manner, revealing it was a trap in my opinion was the only silly move he did there.
I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).
1.) You will absolutely never, ever, for any reason sell ANY kp or kp modifiers you may possess. Anyone trading in weapons or kp of *any* sort is to be deemed scum or a traitor to the town and executed. Remember the only confirmed townie you know is *you* if you start selling RPG's chances are you are giving them to the MAFIA. That's partially how Merc Mini was lost, mafia ended up holding KP the town had sold them.
2.) Do not sell or trade your vote. Votes are our only tool to really kill mafia, by selling your vote to anyone you are sabotaging the town's chances at victory and giving someone who's alignment you don't know a better chance at victory. We do not trade votes.
3.) Money is power. Don't give it away unless you have a good reason to. "I want to see GMarshal post : 'I'm a baboon' 15 times" is not a good reason to spend money. Some powers like the defense contract in the previous merc mafia are cash dependent, by giving away resources without a good reason you might be giving someone who is not town aligned an ability.
4.) On publicizing contracts. This is entirely situational. Do it if it looks like a trap. Don't if you think its going to catch scum. I leave it up to your judgment. BP vests and grenades are probably booby-trapped.
5.) On PM traps. Make sure the damn thing is actually a *trap*, not a "slight blue slip" but something that will actually carry weight, not what happened to RoL in XLII.
LSB, can I make an escrow account with LSB Bot that will hold all my PM's until I die and then publish them in the thread? Obviously its my responsibility to make sure LSB bot *has* the PM's but is it doable?
Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:
1. standard issue butterfly knife 2. electro sapper
On July 13 2011 03:50 GMarshal wrote: LSB, can I make an escrow account with LSB Bot that will hold all my PM's until I die and then publish them in the thread? Obviously its my responsibility to make sure LSB bot *has* the PM's but is it doable?
I don't see why the service is necessarily needed for LSB Banking to preform. I can think of an alternative, and I'd prefer the alternative.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
Lynching lurkers might seem like a good idea in a large game, but in a small game like this I wouldn't recommend it. Lurkers almost always end up being Town aligned. And that lost townie, even if he's a lurker, carries a lot of weight because we can't let the Mafia outnumber us. In a normal game, a single lurker doesn't matter as much in terms of quantity.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
Lynching lurkers might seem like a good idea in a large game, but in a small game like this I wouldn't recommend it. Lurkers almost always end up being Town aligned. And that lost townie, even if he's a lurker, carries a lot of weight because we can't let the Mafia outnumber us. In a normal game, a single lurker doesn't matter as much in terms of quantity.
Ace said this once, in my first game, and while I disagreed with him then I agree with him now.
"Kill people who aren't going to help you win"
Lurkers are serving as bait for mafia in lylo and dragging us down. We need to exterminate them like the vermin they are.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
Lynching lurkers might seem like a good idea in a large game, but in a small game like this I wouldn't recommend it. Lurkers almost always end up being Town aligned. And that lost townie, even if he's a lurker, carries a lot of weight because we can't let the Mafia outnumber us. In a normal game, a single lurker doesn't matter as much in terms of quantity.
While this is true in theory, it should be based on such a thing as a Lurker who is posting fairly town or a lurker with weak opinions. We obviously lynch the lurker with weak opinions if there is a person we are on the fence about, that way we can buy ourselves time to look at the scummy active player who may turn out to be town and have solid scumreads for the remainder of the game.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
Lynching lurkers might seem like a good idea in a large game, but in a small game like this I wouldn't recommend it. Lurkers almost always end up being Town aligned. And that lost townie, even if he's a lurker, carries a lot of weight because we can't let the Mafia outnumber us. In a normal game, a single lurker doesn't matter as much in terms of quantity.
"Kill people who aren't going to help you win"
This is the number one rule of Mafia end of story.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
This is the most scummy thing I've read in this thread yet.
Everyone knows that we'll default to lynching lurkers, but with over 30 hours remaining in day one there is no reason to defend anyone like you just defended Radfield. Let him answer for himself.
There were several good reasons for attacking him. Yes, Nisani is being a bit derp, but that's no reason to completely stop the attack against Radfield.
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote: In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:
1. standard issue butterfly knife 2. electro sapper
Am I close? What's up with the picture?
The picture itself was just to make You say "Gentlemen" in Spy's voice, nothing else. Also I love how people stumble by, say I am die hard trying to contribute, but I don't and just leave it here. I like the ON-Radfield link. Sandroba is die hard on lynching me or Nisani without much evidence - he just ties us and calls us scummy, prefers lurker lynch instead of Radfield lynch, soft-defends Radfield.
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote: In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:
1. standard issue butterfly knife 2. electro sapper
Am I close? What's up with the picture?
The picture itself was just to make You say "Gentlemen" in Spy's voice, nothing else. Also I love how people stumble by, say I am die hard trying to contribute, but I don't and just leave it here. I like the ON-Radfield link. Sandroba is die hard on lynching me or Nisani without much evidence - he just ties us and calls us scummy, prefers lurker lynch instead of Radfield lynch, soft-defends Radfield.
So I'm calling you out on tunneling a bad lynch explain why its a bad lynch and then state im "linked" to him as another scum suspect.
Kurumi, why are you unable to see other options in this scenario.
Wait, You called Radfield lynch bad because he is a good player and it is highly likely that he will die N1 anyway? What's that bullshit? He might be a good player but it is not going to scare me, I think his behaviour was suspicious.
On July 13 2011 01:08 Kurumi wrote: Also Radfield.. On the page 5 You said You'll announce who sold You the BP vest, but on this page You say we shouldn't announce contracts at all. It's a contradiction.
Lets not be silly. What I said in regards to both those points make perfect sense unless you are trying to nit-pick my posts to make me look bad. + Show Spoiler +
On July 12 2011 19:25 Radfield wrote: Lets get down to brass tax: Who's selling me a bulletproof vest?
I may be in the market to buy up some votes for Day 1, PM me if interested.
But most importantly: Who wants to sell me an RPG
It's vitally important that I shoot someone with an RPG this game in order to maximize fun
So you're looking to buy votes on Day 1, the time in the game that it is least likely we will lynch scum. You also want an RPG, which provides you with additional means of killing someone, which also does not guarantee you will kill scum. Noted, you're going down on my suspect list.
yeah, I was trying to see if anyone would bite by offering to sell me their vote. It would peg them either as scum or as someone with a cash ability. In retrospect it was probably a bit too transparent.
As far as an RPG, it provides me with a means of killing someone, not an additional means. I play a patient, thoughtful style of mafia and have no intention of firing at the first player who pops on my scumdar. I am also fairly decent at finding reds, though I'll admit that I'm somewhat weak when it comes to PM games, which I don't normally join.
As an advertisement to business, I have defensive weapons to sell. If you are interested, PM me.
This seems like a risky thing to be posting in public. Surely it makes far more sense for you to be PMing players you have pro-town reads on rather than letting everyone know.
Smells like role fishing to me.
Why did you post this? I made it clear I was role fishing, no bones about it.
On July 13 2011 01:50 Kurumi wrote: Guys, are we going for inactive lynch or scummiest person lynch Day 1? Also Radfield smells worse and worse for me.. PM trap without good enough skills (thanks Palmar) Role fishing (thanks Jackal58) Contradiction about BP (possible trap for future?) Wanted to buy: BP Votes (said it was a trap) RPG
Great play by play. Glad to know I've been pegged as scum after 4 posts. At which point did I smell bad, and then go to smelling worse exactly? Post 3? Post 4? I'm genuinely interested in where the tipping point was for you Kurumi. Also, lol at 'PM trap without good enough skills"
The reason I'm bad at PM games, is because too much happens behind the scenes. I excel when presented with information, and my ability to sift through that info. However, with PM games most of the important info goes on without me seeing it, which kinda makes things less fun. Also, I tend to not bother PMing people in PM games, which is something I'm trying to remedy. It's not that I can't use PMs, the problem is that I typically don't.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
Lynching lurkers might seem like a good idea in a large game, but in a small game like this I wouldn't recommend it. Lurkers almost always end up being Town aligned. And that lost townie, even if he's a lurker, carries a lot of weight because we can't let the Mafia outnumber us. In a normal game, a single lurker doesn't matter as much in terms of quantity.
Ace said this once, in my first game, and while I disagreed with him then I agree with him now.
"Kill people who aren't going to help you win"
Lurkers are serving as bait for mafia in lylo and dragging us down. We need to exterminate them like the vermin they are.
The idea of killing a 'lurker' is not a sound one. Killing someone who you think is scummy is almost always a better play in my mind. Now, if someone is lurking and seems like they're trying to fly under the radar, then absolutely they should be lynched, not because they are lurking however, but because what they are doing is fundamentally scummy. And you lynch someone because they are scummy. So yes, killing a lurker is fine, as long as your doing it because you think they are scum.
The real power of the Day 1 lynch is to get everyone's votes down on paper. If you vote for a player who is inactive on Day 1, the mafia will be more than happy to jump on board, and town learns absolutely nothing from Day 1 because the mafia all had clear cut reasons to vote. However, if you lynch someone who's actually playing the game, that forces mafia to come out in the open and make up an opinion and LIE about why they think that player is scum. If you are lynching a townie day 1, every mafia player has to make up some crap post about why they think that player is scummy, and that's how you find mafia.
On July 13 2011 04:46 Kurumi wrote: Wait, You called Radfield lynch bad because he is a good player and it is highly likely that he will die N1 anyway? What's that bullshit? He might be a good player but it is not going to scare me, I think his behaviour was suspicious.
And there are other people who are behaving suspicous, IE Sandroba so take some energy and look over other suspects at the same time. Having an alternative in case yaknow HES NOT SCUM, is a great intiative.
Ok ON, You gave me a "suspect" but made nothing about Yourself, I don't understand that. If someone's suspicious in Your eyes, why won't You announce it with something to back it up? While I agree sandroba's looking suspicious, that does not allow You just say "X is suspicious" and leave it here. Sandroba talks about me not contributing while not contributing, pretty obvious why it makes him suspicious and saying Nisani is supporting me is bullshit, he just said that my little analysis how screwed we can be Day 2 is a shortcut why lurker lynch is bad.
On July 13 2011 04:55 Radfield wrote: I honestly don't understand how you guys think people are super-scummy after the game is less than 24 hours old.....
To be fair and honest with you I have not called you scum. I'm still not completely sure I understand all the dynamics of this particular game.
On July 13 2011 04:55 Radfield wrote: I honestly don't understand how you guys think people are super-scummy after the game is less than 24 hours old.....
I just pointed out that things You've done so far don't add up as Town in my eyes, that's all.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote: 1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch 2) I'm not defending Radfield
That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.
Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.
On July 13 2011 04:57 Kurumi wrote: Ok ON, You gave me a "suspect" but made nothing about Yourself, I don't understand that. If someone's suspicious in Your eyes, why won't You announce it with something to back it up? While I agree sandroba's looking suspicious, that does not allow You just say "X is suspicious" and leave it here. Sandroba talks about me not contributing while not contributing, pretty obvious why it makes him suspicious and saying Nisani is supporting me is bullshit, he just said that my little analysis how screwed we can be Day 2 is a shortcut why lurker lynch is bad.
Because its all mostly gutreads that I honestly have barely any evidence to back up with it. I cant go oh look their 100% after 5 posts from each of them. There has to be patterns. Sure one case can be scummy and look you pointed out my pattern of not really giving evidence. And now im responding because In sands case its mostly the Lynching lurkers for lynching lurkers angle rather than lynching lurkers because they're scummy.
I find it likely that there are certain pro-town abilities(investigations, medics, etc) that require money to activate.
Trying to learn what players roles are is all mafia is. Being able to peg someone as a definite red/blue is extremely handy.
From scum standpoint of view, fishing like that can reveal only blues. Why the hell as Town would You fish for blues anyway? To out them and make them die? To get their equipment? All sound scummy to me, but You know... I am new to this game, still.
I dislike meta, but now it came handy. Basically, syllogism was asking questions and making some fluff posts entire game. He is not dedicated like in WaW2 (pretty stupid to point this game), he was getting killed N2 by Mafia, but shit hit the fan
It's a format in which you've have to find players you can trust, because you can't just go around giving your items to random players. In a regular game all you've to do is scum hunt, but in this game many abilities/items cost money and might be dangerous in scum hands. Making contracts with and revealing information to players who you can't trust is the worst mistake you can make.
On July 13 2011 05:11 Kurumi wrote: I dislike meta, but now it came handy.
...Except it really shows nothing...?
Funny how Ace was telling me that everytime I brought it up in our scumchat during PYPI.. Based on myself I know I behave differently based on alignment - easy as that.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote: 1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch 2) I'm not defending Radfield
That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.
Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.
I have zero votes heist, and in no way shape or form am I the most scummy player in this thread. However, given that certain players seem to be bent on spending their time focused on me today, here is my proposal: Set aside your suspicions for 1 cycle. If by day 2 you still think I am the best target for a lynch, then push me with all your might. However, in the meantime, stop focusing on my terrible first post that had apprx 3 minutes of thought, and instead look around at the other players in the thread. I am confident that by day 2 my posting will have spoken for itself.
On July 13 2011 05:11 Kurumi wrote: I dislike meta, but now it came handy.
...Except it really shows nothing...?
Funny how Ace was telling me that everytime I brought it up in our scumchat during PYPI.. Based on myself I know I behave differently based on alignment - easy as that.
I like it when you're the SK and you just tell everybody. Are you the SK Kurumi?
On July 13 2011 05:11 Kurumi wrote: I dislike meta, but now it came handy.
...Except it really shows nothing...?
Funny how Ace was telling me that everytime I brought it up in our scumchat during PYPI.. Based on myself I know I behave differently based on alignment - easy as that.
I like it when you're the SK and you just tell everybody. Are you the SK Kurumi?
I can assure You I am a Townie, Jackal58 Radfield, since You're done apologizing and finding excuses, care to share some opinions on players?
I can definitely give you the benefit of the doubt this early on radfield. I'm just really surprised that Sandroba can completely disregard everything you've done and now he's put you on his no lynch list.
Yeah, I don't really like sandroba at the moment. His list smells like a weak attempt at buying safety. There is no reason for a town sided person to exclude players from getting lynched day 1, it simply does not make sense.
But then again, I completely agree with Sandroba on ON. ON has done almost nothing but not commiting this game, he also randomly fos'd sandroba out of the blue. I was talking to him on IRC at the time, and he mentioned radfield/kurumi/nisani being scummy, but a little later I said Sandroba was scummy, and that's the person he fos'd. He basically went with my read over his own, which also smells like an attempt to buy friends.
On July 13 2011 05:24 sandroba wrote: OK, players I refuse to lynch day1 this game are myself =) syllogism radfield gmarshal
Everyone else is fair game. I'm liking ON as scum, he's making bland posts and not commiting, while soft pushing me as scum.
Please provide evidence because im fairly sure i committed to lynching scummy lurkers over all else day 1 and im even more sure that you are just omgusing me because i decided to push you.
I agree mostly with that list overall though syllogism just hasnt done quite enough yet to warrent that spot.
On July 13 2011 05:39 Palmar wrote: Yeah, I don't really like sandroba at the moment. His list smells like a weak attempt at buying safety. There is no reason for a town sided person to exclude players from getting lynched day 1, it simply does not make sense.
But then again, I completely agree with Sandroba on ON. ON has done almost nothing but not commiting this game, he also randomly fos'd sandroba out of the blue. I was talking to him on IRC at the time, and he mentioned radfield/kurumi/nisani being scummy, but a little later I said Sandroba was scummy, and that's the person he fos'd. He basically went with my read over his own, which also smells like an attempt to buy friends.
I had weak cases until I found Sandroba, I still have weak cases, I dont like commiting to weak cases because very often weak cases are wrong. I haven't even put a vote down on anyone yet and neither has anyone else. So how can anyone really be called commital yet?
I was just going to say, despite that, I agree with Sandroba on Nisani as more likely scum although I'm assuming it's just based on this one post?
On July 13 2011 02:25 Nisani201 wrote: I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).
Lurkers are not always town. You really shouldn't be making any statement that encourages people to lurk. He does seem eager to lynch someone with very little evidence. I am fully expecting to eat my own words right here because after all this is just one post, but I'm just pointing out that this post does not seem very pro-town at all.
On July 13 2011 05:36 syllogism wrote: I'm not surprised, I find it unlikely a good player would be so daring/careless as scum, especially in hist first few posts
It's a dangerous game you play when you assume scum won't do something. Scum will do whatever it takes to not seem like scum. If people think that scum won't be so outspoken/daring early on... that seems like the perfect thing for scum to do.
I make one post and now everyone is all over me? WTF?
The only reason why you guys think that the post is scummy is because it isn't super confident. I wasn't being very confident about it because there was so little evidence; Day 1 reads should never yield absolute confidence IMO. I doubt he will get lynched today but I was just suggesting that it would be better to lynch him because of scumminess rather than a lurker.
I don't think we should lynch Chezinu because he's not posting. If he completely lurks then he will just get modkilled anyways.
Anyways, I guess I'll post my opinions on some players now, because I'll probably be asked to do so anyways sooner or later.
Radfield - Appears to be full of contradictions and scumslips. They are forgivable but we should definitely keep an eye on him throughout Day 2.
Kurumi - He seems to be slowly easing off his tunneling of Radfield, probably because people are calling him scum. If he truly thought that Radfield were Mafia then I think he would be pressing a bit harder, but now he just seems to be acting for the crowd. Suspicious.
chaos13 - Playing pro-town; all of his posts have evidence behind them and have a lot of content. Doesn't seem suspicious.
GMarshal - Seems to be playing his standard leadership town role. I don't see a difference between his playstyle now and his playstyle from RTM so he seems innocent to me.
Are you tried of waiting? Do you want contracts to be fulfilled before Daybreak? Then Chezinu Banking has the solution for you! Chezinu banking provides Real Time contracts. These contracts enable members to make deals of abstract thought without having to pay a heavy price nor having to wait. With Chezinu Banking, not only do we guarantee instance gratification of real time contract, but we can rest assure that the consequences of a broken contract will be followed through by the end of the day!
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Payment can be made through LSB Banking
In order for a transaction to process, both parties must PM me identical contracts, and I will approve of the contract. All transactions will be carried out at the end of the day.
If you cannot fulfill a contract, bad things will happen to you
Chezinu Banking Industries is not responsible for losses due to poorly written contracts
Name: The Real Time Contract Cost: 10,000 Cheznos for each player Use: To transfer items, goods, services, or anything else between two players Form:+ Show Spoiler +
[Party 1] [Terms]
[Party 2] [Terms]
For example
Chezinu Pay 2,000,000 Cheznos Artanis[Xp] Kill Foolishness before the start of day 3
Name: Formal Complaint Cost: Free Use: To punish someone for break a real time contract Form:+ Show Spoiler +
Chezinu Pay 2,000,000 Cheznos Artanis[Xp] Kill Foolishness before the start of day 3
Violation: It's day 3 right now. Foolishness is alive
What can be used as proof: Things Chezinu Banking can see, IE who's alive, who voted for what ect ect. In addition PMs and Posts by the persons in the transaction can be used as proof.[/QUOTE]
What reasons a townie has for making this post you just made? 1) You are acknowlodging the scumminess in your first post, while contradicting yourself. You say the reason people think it's scummy is because of the lack of confidense, but you seem pretty confident in lynching Radfield on your first post. Your meek tone and the overreaction points to inherent guilt. 2) Your uncalled for list of reads. You are not pushing anyone. You are not trying to get info. The only reason for that list is to share your reads to look good. No one asked you for it yet, but you feel compeled to clear yourself before any more suspicion arise. Again, inherent guilt.
I don't see the case on OriginalName. His posting looks legit for the moment.
Sandroba looks fine for now as well, though I'll admit I'm a bit biased, partly because he was posting the things I was thinking, partly because he was my scum buddy last game.
Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....
missed a quote tag there chez... i'm disappointed.
Even if that ability is real, I would recommend not using it right now, unless there is an extremely good reason. Your role says nothing of your alignment and appears to reveal a lot of information to you.
On July 13 2011 07:28 sandroba wrote: What reasons a townie has for making this post you just made? 1) You are acknowlodging the scumminess in your first post, while contradicting yourself. You say the reason people think it's scummy is because of the lack of confidense, but you seem pretty confident in lynching Radfield on your first post. Your meek tone and the overreaction points to inherent guilt. 2) Your uncalled for list of reads. You are not pushing anyone. You are not trying to get info. The only reason for that list is to share your reads to look good. No one asked you for it yet, but you feel compeled to clear yourself before any more suspicion arise. Again, inherent guilt.
1) The Radfield accusation did not have much confidence. If you think that it is, good for you, but I am telling you right now that I don't think he is the best lynch anymore. 2) I'm not sure how to please you people. In RTM a bandwagon formed against me because I didn't share my opinions. In this game I give my opinions on a few people and you see it as scummy? Bullshit.
On July 13 2011 07:29 syllogism wrote: Even if that ability is real, I would recommend not using it right now, unless there is an extremely good reason. Your role says nothing of your alignment and appears to reveal a lot of information to you.
On July 13 2011 07:28 sandroba wrote: What reasons a townie has for making this post you just made? 1) You are acknowlodging the scumminess in your first post, while contradicting yourself. You say the reason people think it's scummy is because of the lack of confidense, but you seem pretty confident in lynching Radfield on your first post. Your meek tone and the overreaction points to inherent guilt. 2) Your uncalled for list of reads. You are not pushing anyone. You are not trying to get info. The only reason for that list is to share your reads to look good. No one asked you for it yet, but you feel compeled to clear yourself before any more suspicion arise. Again, inherent guilt.
1) The Radfield accusation did not have much confidence. If you think that it is, good for you, but I am telling you right now that I don't think he is the best lynch anymore. 2) I'm not sure how to please you people. In RTM a bandwagon formed against me because I didn't share my opinions. In this game I give my opinions on a few people and you see it as scummy? Bullshit.
Don't worry about pleasing people, just keep posting in a consise and constructive format and the rest will sort itself out.
I'm still unsure why you found Chaos13 pro-town given he only has 2 posts.,both of them attacking other players. Also, you listed 4 people you think are either town or are unsure on, who do you think is scummy? Who do you think is a good lynch target.
On July 13 2011 07:29 syllogism wrote: Even if that ability is real, I would recommend not using it right now, unless there is an extremely good reason. Your role says nothing of your alignment and appears to reveal a lot of information to you.
Is this to Chezinu? He's just having some fun.
Who do you think we should lynch today?
Yes it looked like trolling, but anyway I agree with sandroba on nisani201. Besides what he already stated above, I don't like this part
I guess I'll post my opinions on some players now, because I'll probably be asked to do so anyways sooner or later.
It just sounds like a strange thing for a townie to say. You should be posting your opinions because your contribution not only could help finding reds, but also because it can help us to confirm your alignment. You make it sound like it just a formality/obligation and not something that you would be doing without prodding.
On July 13 2011 07:29 syllogism wrote: Even if that ability is real, I would recommend not using it right now, unless there is an extremely good reason. Your role says nothing of your alignment and appears to reveal a lot of information to you.
Is this to Chezinu? He's just having some fun.
Who do you think we should lynch today?
Yes it looked like trolling, but anyway I agree with sandroba on nisani201. Besides what he already stated above, I don't like this part
I AM NOT TROLLING!
Chezinu Bank really IS offering the amazing Real Time Contract! I know the offer seems to amazing to believe, but believe me it is Really Real -- Real Time Contract! So, exchange your currency today. You will be satisfied. For Chezinu Banking doesn't Troll around!
On July 13 2011 07:43 sandroba wrote: Town's job is not to please people, that's scum's job. Town's job is to find and kill scum.
Come up with your own fucking taglines. That one's mine.
So Chezinu what advantage do you offer that LSB banking does not? LSB banking is indestructible. LSB banking is sanctioned by the government. (LSB the host) What services can you provide that LSB can't? Serious question.
I'd like to thank Jaedong for his heroic all-kill vs hite during last years winners league. Without him I'd never hold the FPL crown, and never have gotten the FPL Crown honorary chezino discount.
This is the most excited I've ever been watching Broodwar:
Jaedong had worked his way through 3 hite members, and was facing off vs Leta. If he won, I was guaranteed to be the FPL champ, if he lost.... lets not talk about it. I woke up at 4:30 in the morning to watch this series, and I leapt out of bed when Jaedong brought the hammer down on Leta in the most thrilling and nail-biting game I've ever watched. I recommend everyone check it out.
On July 13 2011 08:37 Radfield wrote: why didn't it embed
Just post the normal link (not the embed version), Rich made black magic that turns normal youtube links into embedded ones. (You have permission to edit that post if you want to)
On July 13 2011 05:24 sandroba wrote: OK, players I refuse to lynch day1 this game are myself =) syllogism radfield gmarshal
Everyone else is fair game. I'm liking ON as scum, he's making bland posts and not commiting, while soft pushing me as scum.
Please provide evidence because im fairly sure i committed to lynching scummy lurkers over all else day 1 and im even more sure that you are just omgusing me because i decided to push you.
I agree mostly with that list overall though syllogism just hasnt done quite enough yet to warrent that spot.
You only question syllogism. What exactly has GMarshall done to warrant a spot?
On July 13 2011 05:24 sandroba wrote: OK, players I refuse to lynch day1 this game are myself =) syllogism radfield gmarshal
Everyone else is fair game. I'm liking ON as scum, he's making bland posts and not commiting, while soft pushing me as scum.
Please provide evidence because im fairly sure i committed to lynching scummy lurkers over all else day 1 and im even more sure that you are just omgusing me because i decided to push you.
I agree mostly with that list overall though syllogism just hasnt done quite enough yet to warrent that spot.
You only question syllogism. What exactly has GMarshall done to warrant a spot?
Well other than not trusting sandroba cycling through suspects at such a rapid rate, I think nisani is the most scummy player right now. His quick support for the lynch, his absolute statement that lurker lynches only result in town, and whenever I get the feeling that someone wants us to trust them, I get more than suspicious. His posting makes it seem as if he really cares about our opinion of him, something scum are much more worried about. He states that radfield is no longer the best lynch anymore, but doesn't say who he thinks we should lynch. He has no strong opinions other than his innocence.
On July 13 2011 10:03 Radfield wrote: I realize everyone is busily PMing away, but we really do need to talk in the thread as well.
Palmar, i'm still not sure I see the Sandroba case, and he thinks he can break the game tomorrow, so lets see if it happens.
Jackal and Chaos, you guys need to post more. Heist you too
Chezinu, do you have any reads at all?
At this point in time I really have nothing. Other than your role fishing. Can you give me an explanation as to why you were?
I really hate day 1. Most of the time what I see as a day 1 scumtell turns into a dumbtell or else I encourage town to lynch a blue. So I just read a lot and point out things like I did with you. I could always start tunneling you.
Sorry for my relative lack of activity guys, I've been busy with company all day. I'll be able to post more tomorrow.
First off: heist, start thinking for yourself. To begin with, Kurumi makes a brief post about how syllo's posting isn't like his town play. With no evidence of how it compares or of how it is scummy, you hop along and agree with it
On July 13 2011 05:10 heist wrote: Care to explain syllogism?
Now you're doing the same with nisani. Form your own opinions and explain them, or I will be forced to conclude that you are scum.
On July 13 2011 07:29 Radfield wrote: Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....
I also have to support this. Either you're (correctly) getting a town read on me because you are genuinely analyzing my posts, or you are mafia attempting to gain town cred later on. I have to admit that two posts isn't anything to go on, whether you gain a town or a scum read. Step up your game as well.
On July 13 2011 11:12 chaos13 wrote: Sorry for my relative lack of activity guys, I've been busy with company all day. I'll be able to post more tomorrow.
First off: heist, start thinking for yourself. To begin with, Kurumi makes a brief post about how syllo's posting isn't like his town play. With no evidence of how it compares or of how it is scummy, you hop along and agree with it
On July 13 2011 07:29 Radfield wrote: Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....
I also have to support this. Either you're (correctly) getting a town read on me because you are genuinely analyzing my posts, or you are mafia attempting to gain town cred later on. I have to admit that two posts isn't anything to go on, whether you gain a town or a scum read. Step up your game as well.
Chezinu, why should I join your bank group?
The contracts are real time rather than turn based. The consequence of a broken contract will probably be dealt in a much different manner than that of LSB Banking.
On July 13 2011 11:03 Chezinu wrote: Can someone explain to me what Palmer, Kurumi, and Jackal58 have in common?
This ought to be good. I am also having difficulty understanding how you can fulfill contracts.
Each name has six letters. Alternatively all three names have an even number of characters. Finally they could all have the same alignment, although thats unlikely.
On July 13 2011 11:03 Chezinu wrote: Can someone explain to me what Palmer, Kurumi, and Jackal58 have in common?
This ought to be good. I am also having difficulty understanding how you can fulfill contracts.
Each name has six letters. Alternatively all three names have an even number of characters. Finally they could all have the same alignment, although thats unlikely.
On July 13 2011 11:12 chaos13 wrote: Sorry for my relative lack of activity guys, I've been busy with company all day. I'll be able to post more tomorrow.
First off: heist, start thinking for yourself. To begin with, Kurumi makes a brief post about how syllo's posting isn't like his town play. With no evidence of how it compares or of how it is scummy, you hop along and agree with it
On July 13 2011 07:29 Radfield wrote: Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....
I also have to support this. Either you're (correctly) getting a town read on me because you are genuinely analyzing my posts, or you are mafia attempting to gain town cred later on. I have to admit that two posts isn't anything to go on, whether you gain a town or a scum read. Step up your game as well.
Chezinu, why should I join your bank group?
I really didn't see Kurumi's post on syllogism. I was questioning why a townie would want to figure out blue roles. As for nisani, I'm following up on my other post stating my suspicions on nisani.
My strongest read of scum was on Sandroba who found Kurumi scummy for really no reason other than attacking radfield. Then he simply drops him to focus his suspicions on ON and nisani. he would be my number one suspect if not for that the fact that I agree with him on nisani.
I would leave Radfield alone. I seriously would if I saw anything redeeming him. There are a couple of things missing in the picture with Radfield's play in this game. #1: No suspects. Radfield suspects... noone. + Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2011 07:29 Radfield wrote: I don't see the case on OriginalName. His posting looks legit for the moment.
Sandroba looks fine for now as well, though I'll admit I'm a bit biased, partly because he was posting the things I was thinking, partly because he was my scum buddy last game.
Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....
missed a quote tag there chez... i'm disappointed.
Look, this is how Radfield talk about people. "He is town." "He is town too." "Town too." Pretty easy to say as scum. Radfield literally found 0 scuminess in people so far. #2: Scum-driven actions. A) Role fishing. + Show Spoiler +
I find it likely that there are certain pro-town abilities(investigations, medics, etc) that require money to activate.
Trying to learn what players roles are is all mafia is. Being able to peg someone as a definite red/blue is extremely handy.
Why the heck would You want to know if someone was blue? To out them? Slip the information? Send PM about someone's role to wrong person? Role fishing IS NOT a Town trait. Town has absolutely no need in knowing who is blue. Everything Town needs to know is who is scum and who is town. You don't search for blues, You search for TOWN! The priority of course is scumhunting, but if someone behaves Town You have one person less to think about. B) Shady contracts So let's list what Radfield wanted to buy: RPG (every town needs one, of course!) Votes (You know, we have a Mayor election this game) Bulletproof Vest (hai guise thanks to vest i survived night 1 i am totally not scum thanks to that so don't hit on my scuminess silly boys, my scum bro "sold" me one) What Radfield sold: Gave 25,000 Kronos to Chezinu
So let's sit down and think a bit. How good would be to have an excuse for surviving Night 1 as scum? Amazing! BPV fits in the pattern. Votes? That was searching for SK. The first person to sell his/her vote is likely a SK. How good would be allying with one? How awesome, 2KP! Also we don't know if Radfield speaks truth about noone selling his vote. It is highly likely there's a deal between Radfield and Chezinu. C) Excuses + Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote: 1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch 2) I'm not defending Radfield
That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.
Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.
I have zero votes heist, and in no way shape or form am I the most scummy player in this thread. However, given that certain players seem to be bent on spending their time focused on me today, here is my proposal: Set aside your suspicions for 1 cycle. If by day 2 you still think I am the best target for a lynch, then push me with all your might. However, in the meantime, stop focusing on my terrible first post that had apprx 3 minutes of thought, and instead look around at the other players in the thread. I am confident that by day 2 my posting will have spoken for itself.
[/QUOTE] "Hi guys, I scumslipped, but could You forget about it for a moment? Like, one night so I can use MY ADDITIONAL KP TO FUCK YOU OVER?" Sure Radfield, I am totally letting You go. About the "I am confident that by day 2 my posting will have spoken for itself" just read his posts after that one, if You find someone who he suspects, a plan, anything green, tell me. He's posting utter crap, getting in deal with Chezinu and talking how everyone is town without much evidence. Also something else: Radfield is sure he will be alive Day 2. ##Vote Radfield No.
The point about really wanting to delay the lynch by one cycle is especially damning. As town you'd simply prove your innocence through pro-town posting and not worry so much about staying alive for one night.
I spoke with Radfield in detail last night. re-reading the IRC logs now.
I appreciate your zest here Kurumi, but you're way off base. First off, I have several suspects, but am PMing other players and those suspects in an effort to build a case. This includes you, but you never responded to my PM, did you? There is very little going on in the thread, which is why i've sent 30 PMs so far this game, to about 7 different players. However you're right that I don't have a lot of red reads right now, but i'm working on it.
You keep saying I was trying to find blues...? That makes no sense. I was trying to find players eager to sell their vote, which would peg them as either blue OR RED.
I never gave chezinu anything. He gave me 1000000 free chezbucks because I was trying to wrangle a good deal from him.
I dont understand your serial killer stuff. Your really digging hard here to try and build a case against me.
____________
Anyways, after PMing around, it seems we have several options for the lynch today: Originalname, Sandroba, and Nisani. Syllogism I was initially suspicious of, but the fact that he was trying to break the game in a pro-town way scores him enough points to get past Day 1 for me. Chez is too much fun to get rid of,
Sandroba: As I've stated I don't think lynching sandro is a particularly good play, especially since he seems to have something cooking for Day 2 with GM.
OriginalName: My first impression of ON is that he is legit, but frankly his posting is very neutral and tending towards posting for the sake of posting. I'm not totally sold on him though, which leaves...
Nisani: Currently my best bet for today's lynch. His first post was super scummy(as sandro pointed out) and it hasn't really improved.
Am I the only one who feels Nisani is just the new guy of choice who gets steamrolled because he isn't experienced enough at the game? I did have a conversation with him last night that actually raised my suspicion of him, but it also felt like him not knowing how the hell to act.
But then again, he is actually not bad at this game, maybe this is his scumplay. LSB, are you trolling me? Everyone is scummy.
The plan is to show with this post that OriginalName is very likely to be scum. I have went back and re-read his entire posting history. This, along with the shenanigans in PM land, leads me to believe that ON is indeed not part of our lovely town.
The first thing I'd like to bring to everyone's attention is the fact that ON has hardly accused anyone in this game, except for Sandroba. His accusation on Sandroba is incredibly weak.
On July 13 2011 05:39 Palmar wrote: Yeah, I don't really like sandroba at the moment. His list smells like a weak attempt at buying safety. There is no reason for a town sided person to exclude players from getting lynched day 1, it simply does not make sense.
But then again, I completely agree with Sandroba on ON. ON has done almost nothing but not commiting this game, he also randomly fos'd sandroba out of the blue. I was talking to him on IRC at the time, and he mentioned radfield/kurumi/nisani being scummy, but a little later I said Sandroba was scummy, and that's the person he fos'd. He basically went with my read over his own, which also smells like an attempt to buy friends.
I had weak cases until I found Sandroba, I still have weak cases, I dont like commiting to weak cases because very often weak cases are wrong. I haven't even put a vote down on anyone yet and neither has anyone else. So how can anyone really be called commital yet?
As soon as I call him out on not committing he claims to have suddenly found a strong case. A case that was basically based on my own initial suspicion of Sandroba. He hasn't said a damn word in the thread about why Sandroba is scummy, just that "it's not a weak case".
But while ON has not been busy making enemies by calling them scum, he sure as hell has been trying to make friends.
On July 13 2011 05:24 sandroba wrote: OK, players I refuse to lynch day1 this game are myself =) syllogism radfield gmarshal
Everyone else is fair game. I'm liking ON as scum, he's making bland posts and not commiting, while soft pushing me as scum.
Please provide evidence because im fairly sure i committed to lynching scummy lurkers over all else day 1 and im even more sure that you are just omgusing me because i decided to push you.
I agree mostly with that list overall though syllogism just hasnt done quite enough yet to warrent that spot.
On July 13 2011 01:50 Kurumi wrote: Guys, are we going for inactive lynch or scummiest person lynch Day 1? Also Radfield smells worse and worse for me.. PM trap without good enough skills (thanks Palmar) Role fishing (thanks Jackal58) Contradiction about BP (possible trap for future?) Wanted to buy: BP Votes (said it was a trap) RPG
I don't like lynching Radfield day 1, hes generally a very good player as such hes been killed N1 of alot of games recently (PYPI was the exception as he picked bulletproof) for good reason.
PM trap without good enough skills (thanks Palmar)
This is stupid, just because he says hes not good at PM games doesnt mean it takes alot of skill to lay a pm trap. Its just knowing how to play mafia in a reasonable manner, revealing it was a trap in my opinion was the only silly move he did there.
On July 13 2011 01:58 OriginalName wrote: Also he could be lying about said pm skills to avoid scum shooting by appearing meeker.
This is scum play 101. If I tell GMarshal I think he's town, he's going to find it more likely that I am town too. It's just the mutual trust thing. ON is very busy telling us various players are town sided so we can all hold hands in one happy circle while he kills us during night.
He cannot commit to scumreads, but he's sure as hell willing to commit to town reads. Why a town player would ever do that? I have no idea.
And finally, he posts some blanket statements and instructions on how to play. Those things are scum favourites, as they look like contributions but sure as hell they aren't. I'll give a few examples in the next few quotes.
On July 13 2011 01:08 Kurumi wrote: Also Radfield.. On the page 5 You said You'll announce who sold You the BP vest, but on this page You say we shouldn't announce contracts at all. It's a contradiction.
It really depends on the scenario for gaining the item.
I think the system should go something like this,
Do I think the Item is boobied?
If yes - Announce the damned contract
if no - Keep it to yourself.
Otherwise if your really scared about secrecy or weather its announced or not just write it in the contract that said person will announce that he has completed it with another player.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
Lynching lurkers might seem like a good idea in a large game, but in a small game like this I wouldn't recommend it. Lurkers almost always end up being Town aligned. And that lost townie, even if he's a lurker, carries a lot of weight because we can't let the Mafia outnumber us. In a normal game, a single lurker doesn't matter as much in terms of quantity.
While this is true in theory, it should be based on such a thing as a Lurker who is posting fairly town or a lurker with weak opinions. We obviously lynch the lurker with weak opinions if there is a person we are on the fence about, that way we can buy ourselves time to look at the scummy active player who may turn out to be town and have solid scumreads for the remainder of the game.
On July 13 2011 04:57 Kurumi wrote: Ok ON, You gave me a "suspect" but made nothing about Yourself, I don't understand that. If someone's suspicious in Your eyes, why won't You announce it with something to back it up? While I agree sandroba's looking suspicious, that does not allow You just say "X is suspicious" and leave it here. Sandroba talks about me not contributing while not contributing, pretty obvious why it makes him suspicious and saying Nisani is supporting me is bullshit, he just said that my little analysis how screwed we can be Day 2 is a shortcut why lurker lynch is bad.
Because its all mostly gutreads that I honestly have barely any evidence to back up with it. I cant go oh look their 100% after 5 posts from each of them. There has to be patterns. Sure one case can be scummy and look you pointed out my pattern of not really giving evidence. And now im responding because In sands case its mostly the Lynching lurkers for lynching lurkers angle rather than lynching lurkers because they're scummy.
The last one is especially incriminating. He is making damn fucking sure that no one thinks he's convinced in his reads. Good plan, then people can't call you out for a bad day 1 lynch. No they'll be calling out the people who led the lynch.
On July 13 2011 19:59 Kurumi wrote: Sinani said Nisani is a bit experienced, newbie card should be non-existant.
Wrong, this is the second forum game that I've played. The only other Mafia games I've played besides this and RTM are SC2 Mafia games, which have a completely different atmosphere (you can try it if you want, last I checked it was pretty high up in the custom game rankings).
Kurumi, that is an excellent analysis. I agree with you on everything but one point. I think he is SK, not mafia. I played a game as SK once, and whenever I picked up on something I felt was a blue slip, or there was a player I was worried about, I tried to subtly hint to mafia to shoot him.
As an advertisement to business, I have defensive weapons to sell. If you are interested, PM me.
This seems like a risky thing to be posting in public. Surely it makes far more sense for you to be PMing players you have pro-town reads on rather than letting everyone know.
Notice how he thinks this is something risky to post. So then...why bring attention to it? Why bring attention to something you think I shouldn't have said in the first place? His first post also points to being an SK. He asks for a bulletproof vest - SK wanting protection from mafia hits? Yes. He asks for votes - SK wanting swing-vote ability, to control the lynch? Yes. He can even use this to pursue a strong mafia suspect and gain major town cred. He asks for RPG's - SK wanting to increase their killing ability? Yes. He's third party, he's not worried about hitting someone on his own team. If he kills mafia, he's eliminated a threat to himself, if he kills town, hopefully he got a dangerous blue role. The more kills, the faster he's won the game.
I just replied to a PM that Radfield sent me. I'm sure he didn't like my answer to much. He asked for my opinions and I told him I was leaning towards him or Nisani for my vote today. I had not even considered the SK angle but that fits better into his reasons for posting as he has than him being scum does. Thank you chaos.
I am having a very busy day at work today and then I have bowling tonight so I will not be on much until late this evening. And by then I'll be drunk. My apologies.
I would leave Radfield alone. I seriously would if I saw anything redeeming him. There are a couple of things missing in the picture with Radfield's play in this game. #1: No suspects. Radfield suspects... noone. + Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2011 07:29 Radfield wrote: I don't see the case on OriginalName. His posting looks legit for the moment.
Sandroba looks fine for now as well, though I'll admit I'm a bit biased, partly because he was posting the things I was thinking, partly because he was my scum buddy last game.
Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....
missed a quote tag there chez... i'm disappointed.
Look, this is how Radfield talk about people. "He is town." "He is town too." "Town too." Pretty easy to say as scum. Radfield literally found 0 scuminess in people so far. #2: Scum-driven actions. A) Role fishing. + Show Spoiler +
I find it likely that there are certain pro-town abilities(investigations, medics, etc) that require money to activate.
Trying to learn what players roles are is all mafia is. Being able to peg someone as a definite red/blue is extremely handy.
Why the heck would You want to know if someone was blue? To out them? Slip the information? Send PM about someone's role to wrong person? Role fishing IS NOT a Town trait. Town has absolutely no need in knowing who is blue. Everything Town needs to know is who is scum and who is town. You don't search for blues, You search for TOWN! The priority of course is scumhunting, but if someone behaves Town You have one person less to think about. B) Shady contracts So let's list what Radfield wanted to buy: RPG (every town needs one, of course!) Votes (You know, we have a Mayor election this game) Bulletproof Vest (hai guise thanks to vest i survived night 1 i am totally not scum thanks to that so don't hit on my scuminess silly boys, my scum bro "sold" me one) What Radfield sold: Gave 25,000 Kronos to Chezinu
So let's sit down and think a bit. How good would be to have an excuse for surviving Night 1 as scum? Amazing! BPV fits in the pattern. Votes? That was searching for SK. The first person to sell his/her vote is likely a SK. How good would be allying with one? How awesome, 2KP! Also we don't know if Radfield speaks truth about noone selling his vote. It is highly likely there's a deal between Radfield and Chezinu. C) Excuses + Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote: 1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch 2) I'm not defending Radfield
That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.
Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.
I have zero votes heist, and in no way shape or form am I the most scummy player in this thread. However, given that certain players seem to be bent on spending their time focused on me today, here is my proposal: Set aside your suspicions for 1 cycle. If by day 2 you still think I am the best target for a lynch, then push me with all your might. However, in the meantime, stop focusing on my terrible first post that had apprx 3 minutes of thought, and instead look around at the other players in the thread. I am confident that by day 2 my posting will have spoken for itself.
"Hi guys, I scumslipped, but could You forget about it for a moment? Like, one night so I can use MY ADDITIONAL KP TO FUCK YOU OVER?" Sure Radfield, I am totally letting You go. About the "I am confident that by day 2 my posting will have spoken for itself" just read his posts after that one, if You find someone who he suspects, a plan, anything green, tell me. He's posting utter crap, getting in deal with Chezinu and talking how everyone is town without much evidence. Also something else: Radfield is sure he will be alive Day 2. ##Vote Radfield No. [/QUOTE] I hate to say it Kurumi, but I essentially disagree with everything you say here. From what I can see your argument breaks down into three main points. Which I will break down here
1.) He isn't actually suspicious of anyone. Well, from having seen Radfield play in PYP:I that seems to me to be par for the course, yes it meta, but generally Rads day one play consists of pretty blanket statements and a general avoiding finger-pointing, if I didn't know him better I might be suspicious, but I really dont find his behavior that incriminating
2.) Role Fishing, usually you would be right, rolefishing *is* a scummy action, its usually very anti-town. Unless you have information or powers that are essential to enabling those blues to succeed. Reading through Rad's posts its very, very clear that he has NO money driven powers, what Rad was trying to do (from my point of view) is find out who needs money and then figure out which of those people are town to *enable* them to use their actions. Seeing it from that point of view the rolefishing seems a lot less scummy and very much more useful, no?
3.) He is confident he will be alive day 2. That is a very common attitude, its one I have, I play as if I were going to survive all game long, more often than not I die by night 2, but I still play and make statements that assume I'm going to be alive. Your assumption that he has extra KP of some sort is entirely wifom, I'm pretty sure that any KP LSB handed out would not be immediately usable, they would either be cash activated or not usable by the original owner, and since no one traded KP (as I instructed) then that isn't a worry.
Finally some reasons why I don't want to lynch Rad 1.) He is an extremely strong town player, lynching him day 1 hurts us immensely if he is town as he is a ridiculously strong asset, if he *is* town then mafia will gun him down by day 2
2.) There are better targets in my opinion, like the real-time contract bank...
3.) Rad plays extremely *safe* as scum, go read CCM and then tell me he would make statements about RPG's in thread if he were scum.
Your point number one is completely invalid, as the mafia would have no reason to take down a player they think are under suspicion, no matter how strong his play is.
But on the other hand, I had exactly the same thoughts as you on your point number three, Radfield is simply too good at this to slip up like that on day one.
On July 13 2011 19:59 Kurumi wrote: Sinani said Nisani is a bit experienced, newbie card should be non-existant.
Wrong, this is the second forum game that I've played. The only other Mafia games I've played besides this and RTM are SC2 Mafia games, which have a completely different atmosphere (you can try it if you want, last I checked it was pretty high up in the custom game rankings).
He incurs suspicion all game and then soft-excuses himself as being inexperienced. I find this far more suspicious than trying to make friends (trying to find almost-certain townies is almost as important as catching scum in this game. trust is the most important factor of this game) and noncommittal attitudes (especially if this is typical of their history). With everything else that has been lain out against nisani, I am sticking with my suspicions on nisani.
Heist, the hidden poster, the guy who's name you hear and you ask, "Is he even playing in this game?" Heist, the stealthy scum who intends to make it through the game by posting generic, content-less posts. You don't have to take my word for it, just look at his first post
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote: In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:
1. standard issue butterfly knife 2. electro sapper
Am I close? What's up with the picture?
Part 1: "we should be lynching scummy players", well no freaking duh, that is the point of the game. But what scummy player does he point out? "Not necessarily rad". This comment sort of acknowledges that Rad is kind of suspicious, but in reality it doesn't commit to it. It also offers no idea of who is suspicious
Part 2: Let me pad my post with nonesense and sort of blue-fish. We've accused Rad of blue fishing, yet look at this really subtle attempt at figuring out what Kurumi is.
Look at this post.
On July 13 2011 05:35 heist wrote: I can definitely give you the benefit of the doubt this early on radfield. I'm just really surprised that Sandroba can completely disregard everything you've done and now he's put you on his no lynch list.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote: 1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch 2) I'm not defending Radfield
That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.
Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.
He's willing to give Rad "the benefit of the doubt" yet he thinks he is scummier than a random lurker. Heist even points out all these super scummy actions "rolefishing, dropping the trap, the BP contradiction" . yet despite beleiving all the scummy actions and providing no reason why they might NOT be scum oriented he still "gives him the benefit of the doubt". What a genuine lack of commitment, he thinks rad is suspicious but isn't willing to commit to it seriously. This is the sign of a faltering scum, one who either doesn't want to risk busing a buddy or one who wants to avoid having green blood on their hands. Having null read is acceptable, what is *not* acceptable is listing why this guy is more likely to be scum than a lurker (a soft red read) and then just handwaving it away.
I once again invite us to compare two separate posts
On July 13 2011 05:46 heist wrote: I was just going to say, despite that, I agree with Sandroba on Nisani as more likely scum although I'm assuming it's just based on this one post?
On July 13 2011 02:25 Nisani201 wrote: I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).
Lurkers are not always town. You really shouldn't be making any statement that encourages people to lurk. He does seem eager to lynch someone with very little evidence. I am fully expecting to eat my own words right here because after all this is just one post, but I'm just pointing out that this post does not seem very pro-town at all.
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote: In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Heist claims to be against the lurker lynch, preferring to lynch "someone suspicious" yet when someone tries to do EXACTLY THAT, they are "Eager to lynch someone with little evidence" and "not very pro-town at all". To me this is 1.) a serious contradiction in thoughts and attitude 2.) throwing his support lightly behind another bandwagon. In particular note words and phrases like "seems" "ready to eat my own words" "I'm just pointing out". These all suggest someone who wants to start and support a wagon without being held responsible for it later, when green blood is dripping from the gallows.
then there is this little jem. Can we say "spreading doubt" all together now? Without a real FoS or anything near that he tries to get the ball rolling, cast a little suspicion and doubt. Now the question *is* legitimate, but the way its asked suggests a level of attempted detachment. It wouldn't be nearly as suspicious if it were more pointed "what has GMarshal done anyway, he only has like 3 posts" would have been fine. The way he asks it seeks to throw doubt while avoiding a heads up confrontation.
Finally he has a post where he says he is "most suspicious of sandroba" but that he won't vote for him or make a case against him because "he agrees about nisani201". Heads up, if you think someone is scum, then following their lead is usually a short road to death and the slaughter of the town. What townie is going to say "yep I'm 100% sure GM is mafia, but hey he said to lynch heist, and the case is moderately convincing, so I'mma going to go with heist, k?" That is a behavioral contradiction that worries me more than anything else. It indicates un-town like disregard for who the lynch target is, and unwillingness to push your lead suspect.
I'm really, really suspicious of heist, and I am convinced he is probably scum.
Now heist, care to explain your actions and your contradictions? Or would you like a fine noose around your neck?
As for the current lynch candidates, I've made my thought clear in Pm land, but I consider nisani201 far better lynch candidate, for reasons already stated and he has done little to alleviate those concerns . I'm rather concerned that two of you, especially chaos13, want to lynch Radfield not because you find him scummy, but because you think he is SK based on rather flimsy evidence. The problem with that kind of line of thought is that the odds of actually catching SK based on such weak reads (who actually plays SK like that: "well I'm sk so I need a bulletproof vest and something I can use for extra KP later, might as well ask in the thread straight away in a PM game) on day 1 are very low. There's only one SK and 3 scum. You should be looking for players who are suspicious in a way that they could be either.
##vote: nisani201
Originalname is another I'm suspicious of; Palmar is spot on. I will be deciding between ON and nisani201 within the next few hours.
syllo, I really do think Radfield is anti-town. Whether that's mafia or SK it makes no difference; both of them want to kill us. That's why I'm voting for him. I do not believe he is a town-aligned player.
On July 14 2011 06:37 Palmar wrote: And I don't think you're town-aligned player chaos
Interesting. What drives you to that conclusion?
Also any thoughts on my analysis of heist? Am I dead wrong?
I was talking about heist in the PM land - I stated the thing with those big letters in the beginning of Your post: He is flying under the radar. The thing is, I thought he is rather town because he was voicing his opinions.. A bit. The thing is; he is the only guy really flying under our spaceship. Lynch is something around 6am Europe time.. so damn bad.
On July 14 2011 06:53 Chezinu wrote: Save yourself Radfield!
Convince me why Nisani is scum.
Why do you want me to make an accusation that Nisani is scum?
Oh well, if you really want me to...
hmm, let me see... Nisani is an enemy of the bank... Nisani attacks the members of the bank.. But rest assure the bank is protected and is capable of treating the violator of a broken contract. Let Nisani be an example for those that oppose the Great Bank of Chezinuisaweomia!
Cheiznu, I just wanted to let you know that you've made me laugh so many times this game already, that I'm going to be writing a theme into my Mafia song for you. The chezinu Theme. Hopefully I'll have the whole thing finished in a day or two.
So addressing GM's post. Going in the same order, I'll explain my posts that are used as examples.
FIRST POST
With that statement I wanted to make clear that we should not be focusing on background lurkers but rather players with hopefully strong opinions with either contradictory behavior or clear signs of suspicion for a more informative lynch. At the time there was no one really on my radar except radfield but I was not entirely convinced. Later I tried to make my issue with Sandroba and nisani clear.
I can see the blue-fishing and I've got nothing say except that was not my intention and I was joking about the spy picture.
SECOND/THIRD POST
I'm restating my lack of conviction about radfield but at that time IMO no else had done anything to even warrant much suspicion other than radfield. Radfield was the most suspicious but not enough for me to commit to a lynch. My issue was not radfield vs lurker, bur rather radfield vs. kurumi. I was confronting sandroba on how kurumi could possibly be more scummy than radfield at that point in the game. The only reason why I list radfield's suspiciousness was to compare it to Kurumi's which was pretty nonexistent. At this point Sandroba is my main suspicion, not radfield.
FOURTH/FIFTH POST
I wanted to emphasize that this was in fact only one post. I felt there were too many weak claims flying around, and I wanted to caution people against taking one post into too much scrutiny. I meant for this to only be my initial impression of someone not acting pro-town. The lurker issue I would have not included but his absolute statement of "lurkers always end up being town" really bothered me even though we are both against lurker lynches. You talk about joining another bandwagon but I never supported the radfield's lynch. I never committed to his lynch based on so little, but nisani has no problem lynching. My initial impression of him was not good, but his subsequent posts solidified him as the scummiest player in my eyes.
The President of Chezinu Banking states that the membership of the bank has been growing since the first member, Radfield, joined. He says there will soon be membership cards and a bank logo. The bank President exclaims, "Our employees are hard at work to depict our high standing values into a single image for all to look upon!" We hope that citizens of the town will see our logo with a smile knowing that we truly care for their well being.
GM Bailout:
Following the orders of the empress, Chezinu Banking bails out the GM business with 50,000 Cheznos. Since then, GM has become a loyal member of the Chezinu Bank. GM has since began a quest in search for the empress in order to bring thanks.
Bank Security System Malfunctions:
There seem to be an error in the Chezinu Bank security system. A threat detector mistakenly went off on Nisani201 earlier during the day. The President of Chezinu Bank, apologizes for the glitch and has made adjustment to the security system. Nisani201 has also been offer compensation for the disaster.
Employment Rate:
With the initiation of Chezinu Bank, 18% of the town now has a job working for the bank. This drastic increase should lead to an economic boom -- the President of Chezinu Banking suspects. The President makes clear that there are still openings within the bank that can be filled.
Sorry, would be more helpful if I included the original accusation to follow along.
On July 14 2011 05:27 GMarshal wrote:
Flying Under The Radar 101: heist
Heist, the hidden poster, the guy who's name you hear and you ask, "Is he even playing in this game?" Heist, the stealthy scum who intends to make it through the game by posting generic, content-less posts. You don't have to take my word for it, just look at his first post
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote: In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:
1. standard issue butterfly knife 2. electro sapper
Am I close? What's up with the picture?
Part 1: "we should be lynching scummy players", well no freaking duh, that is the point of the game. But what scummy player does he point out? "Not necessarily rad". This comment sort of acknowledges that Rad is kind of suspicious, but in reality it doesn't commit to it. It also offers no idea of who is suspicious
Part 2: Let me pad my post with nonesense and sort of blue-fish. We've accused Rad of blue fishing, yet look at this really subtle attempt at figuring out what Kurumi is.
On July 13 2011 05:35 heist wrote: I can definitely give you the benefit of the doubt this early on radfield. I'm just really surprised that Sandroba can completely disregard everything you've done and now he's put you on his no lynch list.
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?
Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.
On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote: 1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch 2) I'm not defending Radfield
That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.
Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.
He's willing to give Rad "the benefit of the doubt" yet he thinks he is scummier than a random lurker. Heist even points out all these super scummy actions "rolefishing, dropping the trap, the BP contradiction" . yet despite beleiving all the scummy actions and providing no reason why they might NOT be scum oriented he still "gives him the benefit of the doubt". What a genuine lack of commitment, he thinks rad is suspicious but isn't willing to commit to it seriously. This is the sign of a faltering scum, one who either doesn't want to risk busing a buddy or one who wants to avoid having green blood on their hands. Having null read is acceptable, what is *not* acceptable is listing why this guy is more likely to be scum than a lurker (a soft red read) and then just handwaving it away.
I once again invite us to compare two separate posts
On July 13 2011 05:46 heist wrote: I was just going to say, despite that, I agree with Sandroba on Nisani as more likely scum although I'm assuming it's just based on this one post?
On July 13 2011 02:25 Nisani201 wrote: I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).
Lurkers are not always town. You really shouldn't be making any statement that encourages people to lurk. He does seem eager to lynch someone with very little evidence. I am fully expecting to eat my own words right here because after all this is just one post, but I'm just pointing out that this post does not seem very pro-town at all.
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote: In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.
Heist claims to be against the lurker lynch, preferring to lynch "someone suspicious" yet when someone tries to do EXACTLY THAT, they are "Eager to lynch someone with little evidence" and "not very pro-town at all". To me this is 1.) a serious contradiction in thoughts and attitude 2.) throwing his support lightly behind another bandwagon. In particular note words and phrases like "seems" "ready to eat my own words" "I'm just pointing out". These all suggest someone who wants to start and support a wagon without being held responsible for it later, when green blood is dripping from the gallows.
then there is this little jem. Can we say "spreading doubt" all together now? Without a real FoS or anything near that he tries to get the ball rolling, cast a little suspicion and doubt. Now the question *is* legitimate, but the way its asked suggests a level of attempted detachment. It wouldn't be nearly as suspicious if it were more pointed "what has GMarshal done anyway, he only has like 3 posts" would have been fine. The way he asks it seeks to throw doubt while avoiding a heads up confrontation.
Finally he has a post where he says he is "most suspicious of sandroba" but that he won't vote for him or make a case against him because "he agrees about nisani201". Heads up, if you think someone is scum, then following their lead is usually a short road to death and the slaughter of the town. What townie is going to say "yep I'm 100% sure GM is mafia, but hey he said to lynch heist, and the case is moderately convincing, so I'mma going to go with heist, k?" That is a behavioral contradiction that worries me more than anything else. It indicates un-town like disregard for who the lynch target is, and unwillingness to push your lead suspect.
I'm really, really suspicious of heist, and I am convinced he is probably scum.
Now heist, care to explain your actions and your contradictions? Or would you like a fine noose around your neck?
So addressing GM's post. Going in the same order, I'll explain my posts that are used as examples.
FIRST POST
With that statement I wanted to make clear that we should not be focusing on background lurkers but rather players with hopefully strong opinions with either contradictory behavior or clear signs of suspicion for a more informative lynch. At the time there was no one really on my radar except radfield but I was not entirely convinced. Later I tried to make my issue with Sandroba and nisani clear.
I can see the blue-fishing and I've got nothing say except that was not my intention and I was joking about the spy picture.
SECOND/THIRD POST
I'm restating my lack of conviction about radfield but at that time IMO no else had done anything to even warrant much suspicion other than radfield. Radfield was the most suspicious but not enough for me to commit to a lynch. My issue was not radfield vs lurker, bur rather radfield vs. kurumi. I was confronting sandroba on how kurumi could possibly be more scummy than radfield at that point in the game. The only reason why I list radfield's suspiciousness was to compare it to Kurumi's which was pretty nonexistent. At this point Sandroba is my main suspicion, not radfield.
FOURTH/FIFTH POST
I wanted to emphasize that this was in fact only one post. I felt there were too many weak claims flying around, and I wanted to caution people against taking one post into too much scrutiny. I meant for this to only be my initial impression of someone not acting pro-town. The lurker issue I would have not included but his absolute statement of "lurkers always end up being town" really bothered me even though we are both against lurker lynches. You talk about joining another bandwagon but I never supported the radfield's lynch. I never committed to his lynch based on so little, but nisani has no problem lynching. My initial impression of him was not good, but his subsequent posts solidified him as the scummiest player in my eyes.
I'm back from work. Thanks GMan for backing me up.
I asked for 1 cycle, and you guys gave me 18 hours. Seriously, if you took a poll at the beginning of the game of the worst possible town plays, lynching Radfield Day 1 is pretty near the top of the list. I have some faults, and am not good at finding scum day 1, but I absolutely excel day 2 and beyond. Hence why I generally die night 1 or night 2(or night 0), and why I asked for 1 cylce of leeway.
Nisani is the lynch today, not me. However, both chaos and jackal look scummy, but I'll admit i'm biased since they are voting for me. Frankly, the fact that everyone is coming down either for or against me makes it far more difficult to parse who's town and who's not.
Chez, are you trying to get me lynched by unvoting Nisani?
GMarshal, I think you're barking up the wrong tree with Heist.
This is the most BS post in this whole thread:
On July 14 2011 01:47 Jackal58 wrote: I just replied to a PM that Radfield sent me. I'm sure he didn't like my answer to much. He asked for my opinions and I told him I was leaning towards him or Nisani for my vote today. I had not even considered the SK angle but that fits better into his reasons for posting as he has than him being scum does. Thank you chaos.
I am having a very busy day at work today and then I have bowling tonight so I will not be on much until late this evening. And by then I'll be drunk. My apologies.
##VOTE: Radfield
I would gladly move a lynch onto Jackal. This post, combined with the fact that Palmar offered him money to be active during day 1 that he turned down, make him very scummy. He has also done very little posting, and seemingly very little PMing. He jumped on my bandwagon with only the slightest push, and I guarantee that the mafia are licking their lips in anticipation of lynching me Day 1.
The PM that Jackal sent me:
I'm at work. And occasionally they actually expect me to do something.
syllogism hasn't posted enough of anything for me to get any real feeling from. nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote. If he doesn't you most likely will. I don't agree with all of Kurumi's analysis of you but some of it makes sense. I found Kurmi's part about the SK buying votes to be curious. I'm going to ask him what his logic is behind that. Sandroba I always think is scum and he always flips town on me. So I'm leaving him alone for right now. I haven't decided on Original Name yet. I think Palmar has called half the people in the game scummy so far. I have been in contact via PM with chaos13, Palmar, GMarshall and yourself. Of them I believe chaos and Palmar are most likely town. GMarshal is a null atm and I'm leaning towards red for you.
Original Message From Radfield: You've been rather absent in the thread. What are your reads on OriginalName, Sandroba and nisani? Also, what do you think of syllogism? Who should our Day 1 lynch be?
I'm also wondering if you've been in PM contact with any other players.
Palmar and GM, have you guys actually been much in contact with Jackal. Did you initiate contact or did he? When I've been scum in PM games I tend to avoid PMs, and I think that is the general trend.
##Vote: Nisani
I don't have a huge scum read on nisani, but he is a far better day 1 lynch than myself. Sandro, Palmar, Chez, ON, Gmarshal, heist and syllo: I would like to move this lynch onto Jackal. Thoughts? Is anyone willing to follow?
Jackal is an interesting candidate. He hasn't given me a strong read either way, and he has a tendency to be somewhat absent and unopinionated on Day 1. I wouldn't want to lynch him today based only on the evidence you put forth. What I see in your analysis is enough cause to be watching him closely, but not near enough to be comfortable lynching him over Radfield.
On July 14 2011 09:09 chaos13 wrote: Jackal is an interesting candidate. He hasn't given me a strong read either way, and he has a tendency to be somewhat absent and unopinionated on Day 1. I wouldn't want to lynch him today based only on the evidence you put forth. What I see in your analysis is enough cause to be watching him closely, but not near enough to be comfortable lynching him over Radfield.
Shit, Jackal contradicted himself straight up in his PM to me.
nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote.
"I think he's worth another day to look at" turns into: "If he doesn't improve he will likely get my vote"
wait, what? So is he worth another day or was he likely to get your vote? And yes, I realize you are voting for me, but that doesn't change the blatant contradiction inherent in your PM.
Also, His comments on the SK stuff are totally off:
His post:
I had not even considered the SK angle but that fits better into his reasons for posting as he has than him being scum does.
His PM to me:
I found Kurmi's part about the SK buying votes to be curious.
Am I crazy here, or is Jackal the most scummy player in this thread?
nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote.
"I think he's worth another day to look at" turns into: "If he doesn't improve he will likely get my vote"
wait, what? So is he worth another day or was he likely to get your vote? And yes, I realize you are voting for me, but that doesn't change the blatant contradiction inherent in your PM.
Also, His comments on the SK stuff are totally off:
I found Kurmi's part about the SK buying votes to be curious.
Am I crazy here, or is Jackal the most scummy player in this thread?
If you find yourself crazy in the game of mafia and it seems everyone is against you.. well, then that means your probably right. Look at GM, he is probably right.
I found Kurmi's part about the SK buying votes to be curious.
I had to go check Kurumi's post for this. All kurumi said about that was that he was fishing for the SK by offering to buy votes, and that the SK would likely be the first person to sell their vote.
When he says he hadn't considered the SK angle, that means he hadn't considered the possibility of Radfield being the SK.
So wait? Am I presumably the serial killer, or someone looking to find the serial killer? The whole serial killer thing makes no sense, including your(chaos) breakdown:
He asks for a bulletproof vest - SK wanting protection from mafia hits? Yes. He asks for votes - SK wanting swing-vote ability, to control the lynch? Yes. He can even use this to pursue a strong mafia suspect and gain major town cred. He asks for RPG's - SK wanting to increase their killing ability? Yes. He's third party, he's not worried about hitting someone on his own team. If he kills mafia, he's eliminated a threat to himself, if he kills town, hopefully he got a dangerous blue role. The more kills, the faster he's won the game.
You must think I'm the worst player to ever play mafia I've been the serial killer before too once. PYP1. I nailed a scum on both Day 2 and Day 3, and ended up getting Day Vigged by scum. I was the most pro-town player in the thread by a long shot, and basically had everyone fooled. I know how to play this game.
Reasons for my first post: I joined this game thinking it was a funsy themed mini-game which I could put my minimal amount of free time into, and I posted that first post accordingly. Look at my sign-up posts:
On July 11 2011 00:22 Radfield wrote: I'll bite as well. Someone make me a sweet contract: I'll give you all my votes starting on Day 3 for all your cash now
/in
On July 11 2011 00:23 Radfield wrote: Also, I plan on playing this game without actually scum hunting or rereading the thread ...
and compare that to these, my first two posts of the game:
On July 12 2011 19:25 Radfield wrote: Lets get down to brass tax: Who's selling me a bulletproof vest?
I may be in the market to buy up some votes for Day 1, PM me if interested.
But most importantly: Who wants to sell me an RPG
It's vitally important that I shoot someone with an RPG this game in order to maximize fun
On July 12 2011 19:33 Radfield wrote: Fear not, I've got that covered. I'm going to make public whomever sells me the BP vest. That way if I die(if the vest is bombed, or a fake), you can lynch the ass who sold me the vest.
More importantly, wheres my RPG?
Notice the theme?
Unfortunately, this has turned into far more of a standard mini mafia, and far less of a funsy theme game, and my first post(made in a spirit of fun) has dogged me all cycle.
Lynching me today is a terrible play. I have huge potential to be an asset to town. If I don't contribute, then lynch or vig me, but at least give me a chance.
nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote.
"I think he's worth another day to look at" turns into: "If he doesn't improve he will likely get my vote"
wait, what? So is he worth another day or was he likely to get your vote? And yes, I realize you are voting for me, but that doesn't change the blatant contradiction inherent in your PM.
Also, His comments on the SK stuff are totally off:
I found Kurmi's part about the SK buying votes to be curious.
Am I crazy here, or is Jackal the most scummy player in this thread?
And if you follow the time line you will see there is no contradiction. Chaos13 posted after our PM exchange and at the time it fit with my thoughts on you. And I am still strongly considering the Nisani vote. I have not seen anything from him yet that makes me want to give him another day. So I'm torn between voting for who I see as a great SK candidate or a great scum candidate.
radfield, I just don't think that's enough evidence. For now I'm taking it on his word that he is very busy and thus his lack of much contribution outside of PM land. He did admittedly say that the choice was between you and nisani and with his low activity it might appear to be bandwaggoning in the wrong eyes. That said, your argument about his contradiction will hold more weight if nisani flips scum especially because he doesn't follow through with what he said.
nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote.
So either radfield became more scummier in his eyes or nisani improved. Nisani certainly did not improve as town in my eyes, but everyone has their own opinions. And perhaps the SK angle was enough though personally there's someone else I believe is a far more obvious SK over you.
On July 14 2011 11:09 heist wrote: radfield, I just don't think that's enough evidence. For now I'm taking it on his word that he is very busy and thus his lack of much contribution outside of PM land. He did admittedly say that the choice was between you and nisani and with his low activity it might appear to be bandwaggoning in the wrong eyes. That said, your argument about his contradiction will hold more weight if nisani flips scum especially because he doesn't follow through with what he said.
nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote.
So either radfield became more scummier in his eyes or nisani improved. Nisani certainly did not improve as town in my eyes, but everyone has their own opinions. And perhaps the SK angle was enough though personally there's someone else I believe is a far more obvious SK over you.
I think they're both deadly. But I switched to Nisani to prevent a scum switch. Now we wait to see.
All transactions have been serviced, please PM me if you think there is a problem
Night 1
The low hum of conversation buzzed throughout the marketplace as merchants plied their wares, locked in fierce negotiation and bargaining. The atmosphere was pleasant, almost serene, with the intoxicating smell of spices wafting through the air. And yet running through it all was a thick undercurrent of menace, a slight stink to the air just barely within the realm of human perception.
A group of men sat at a round oak table, locked in an animated discussion. Gesturing limbs, burning eyes, and tightly controlled voices conveyed the frustration and mounting malice of the conversation; clearly, these men were not pleased with each other. The discussion rapidly mounted in volume as other patrons stopped in their activities to stare at the source of commotion. Soon, the only sound audible came from the mouths of the two men on the brink of shouting, staring daggers at each other as the entire marketplace watched.
Suddenly, one man stood violently, grabbing the cuffs of the other as he dragged him into the air.
“You dare?! You dare?!! Do you know who I am?” the man, Nisani, screamed as his spit flew, “You are doomed. Die fool!”
With those words he flung the other man onto the ground. Hands free, he reached deep into his low-cut jacket and pulled out a gun, black as midnight. Nisani’s hand did not waver despite his fury as he pointed the weapon at his adversary. He looked around the room as he spoke, gaze filled with challenge and pride.
“Know the fate of those who would trifle with me,” he sneered arrogantly as he turned back to the shaking man on the ground, “Know the fate of impudent fools. I am the –”
His words were abruptly cut off as a foot of steel erupted through his throat, splattering his would-be victim with blood.
Curu, enforcer of the marketplace, calmly pulled his sword free as Nisani fell to the ground, his wet gurgles slowly dying out as he drowned in his own blood. A piece of paper fell from Nisani’s jacket; bending down, Curu snatched it up and read aloud to the stunned crowd:
This is our time to strike. Long have we waited for the right opportunity and that time is now. As night falls over the market then shall we proclaim the rise of our empire with the blood of the weak. Do NOT take action during the day, lie low and lie in wait.
Curu raised his head to address the audience,
“I don’t care about your politics and I don’t care about your secret plans. But if you piss me off I will be your end.”
Nisani the Mafia Tekkie has had his throat ripped apart.
Slowly each denizen shuffled out of the blood-soaked room, ready to sleep for the night. But some would stay awake… Credits to Curu
There seem to be an error in the Chezinu Bank security system. A threat detector mistakenly went off on Nisani201 earlier during the day. The President of Chezinu Bank, apologizes for the glitch and has made adjustment to the security system. Nisani201 has also been offer compensation for the disaster.
Would you be able to elaborate on this some more? Is there some sort of system that lets you know if a scum joins the Chez bank, or was it simply your personal opinion? And why did that change?
Original Message From Chezinu: Termination process initiated.
Original Message From Nisani201: Yes cerritos!
Original Message From Chezinu: Are you refusing to cooperate with the Chezinu Banking System?
Original Message From Nisani201: I'm not scum.
I recommend you start posting actual content/opinions in the thread instead of your banking thing. Seriously.
Original Message From Chezinu: There have been rumors going around that you are scum. What do you have to say about these matters?
Then I initiated the termination process and created a bandwagon on him by being the first to vote for him.
On July 13 2011 11:35 Chezinu wrote: Nisani201 has threaten Chezinu Banking and its loyal members. Failure to comply must be punished.
##Vote Nisani201
After it was already too late Nisani201 replied the following:
Original Message From Nisani201: Hi!
I have decided to part from my evil ways AND agree to join your a-mazing bank...
but only if you take off your vote for me.
So the best decision of the Chezinu Bank was to show mercy to Nisani201. Well, at least publicly.. I was on stand by to protect my loyal member Radfield. He can attest. Chezinu Bank does not like to get its hands dirty.. atleast publicly..
Let this be a warning to all who oppose the Chezinu Bank!
Original Message From chaos13: If it was anyone who visited, that would be more of a problem. However, you place it between two specific players and it is only if one of those two visits each other that it is activated. As such, I have been recommending that one of the two targets be a strong suspect. On top of this, I think it is unlikely we have conventional blue roles. I think most of them will be like mine, involving only the ability to make or sell stuff.
Original Message From Palmar: And our cops and docs?
Original Message From chaos13: Almost. You'll see I mentioned early on that I would not sell them to anyone on my suspect list. No reason to give them to someone who is mafia. That said, they'll do a hell of a lot more good to town than mafia, so I'm not overly worried if a mafia does end up with one. Based on simple probability a mafia will already have contacted me inquiring about them, as there have been a few.
Original Message From Palmar: And you're perfectly fine with selling those to whomever asks?
Original Message From chaos13: I can make them each for 350,000, so I'm asking 355,000 to cover that and the cost of the contract. At night you place it between any two players (including yourself if you wish). If one tries to visit the other, instead they get blown up. Pop one between yourself and a scum/SK and it's a dandy little tool. You interested
Original Message From Palmar: So
You say you're selling, I'm in the market for buying.
What exactly does your equipment do, and what's the asking price?
And this one, slightly later, I think I pointed a finger his way in the thread.
Original Message From chaos13: -.-
I try to be helpful... I don't see why you would turn this down either, cause you can only benefit from it. Oh well
Original Message From Palmar: Why does it bother you so much I think you're scum?
I'm clearly not pushing for a lynch on you today, I'm going after ON. So just sit back and chill, you're not helping your cause.
Original Message From chaos13: Alright, what do you need me to do to convince you I'm town?
I think you're town, so here's the deal. Since it's probably because of our earlier PM's that you think I'm scum, I will make a contract with you. This guarantees that I will truthfully inform you of every contract I have made and will make in the future with other players, within 24 hours of making it. You will receive the full details of each contract. I also promise to discuss any contracts I plan on making in the future. Hell, I'll even cover the cost of making this contract with you. If this isn't enough to satisfy you, I'll make a trust fund with you, and in the event that either of us dies and flips mafia/SK, the other gets everything in it. This trust fund will include all of our money. Items will not be included, but it will contain an up-to-date list of what we each have in our inventory.
Also chaos13 didn't question me at all when i made inquiries about his item. He answered the questions and offered to sell. No warnings, no attempts to make sure I'm town. Nothing.
By the way, half the remaining players have roleclaimed to me.
I sent out pms to the people I actually think are town and haven't roleclaimed to me yet. If you scummy types want to, you can try to think of a believable roleclaim now.
Except Chaos13, I don't give a shit what your role is, you're dying.
On July 14 2011 18:24 syllogism wrote: That's interesting because Chaos13 told me that
"They don't differentiate between benign or malicious visits. If someone visits you, it kills them."
No mention of placing them between two specific players or anything
And if you had continued to make inquiries, I would have filled you out on all the details. Do you expect me to tell you every nuance of what I can sell if you show no real interest in purchasing them?
Oh okay, are you going to answer the other question too? I'd also like to see the full description of the item and full role claim. Don't take too long, should be easy to copy/paste
Original Message From syllogism: Is it one per day or based purely on how much money you have?
Original Message From chaos13: I can make them for 350,000 each.
Original Message From syllogism: And how many of these defensive weapons do you have
Original Message From chaos13: They don't differentiate between benign or malicious visits. If someone visits you, it kills them.
Original Message From syllogism: Do they activate when someone offensively targets you (for instance, via a night kill)? I might be interested depending on the exact properties.
On July 15 2011 00:22 syllogism wrote: But hey Chaos13, to give you the benefit of the doubt, feel free to list people who you have
"have been recommending that one of the two targets be a strong suspect."
Oh, and have you sold any yet and if so, to whom
Radfield. In conversation with GM in PM land (or perhaps someone else, or both, I can't quite recall), we came to the conclusion that because there was such an obvious split lynch on Nisani/Radfield, that one of them had to be mafia. Since Nisani flipped mafia, that almost entirely clears Radfield of being mafia, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility of him being SK. Apparently in this game we have to kill both SK and mafia to win, meaning lynching SK is just as good or better than lynching mafia. I've since changed my opinion on Rad somewhat. Keep an eye on him. Don't take him out tomorrow without really good reason. However, if he goes into lurker mode over the next few days he is scum.
Palmar, syllogism, and sandroba. These guys are the three main ones attacking me right now, and it is all based on discussion in PM's. I think one out of the three of them is scum, but I really can't say for sure which one it is.
Jackal58 and GMarshal. These two are both really good players, and they're both giving me a really bad feeling that I can't quite place the origin of. I almost always have a scum read on Jackal early on, so there may not be too much into this, but I almost always find GM to be the towniest guy in the game when he plays as town. If Jackal doesn't start contributing more and improving his scumhunting, I would consider him a viable lynch target. GM, you just need to keep a close eye on.
OriginalName and heist. Flying way under the radar. At the moment I really can't think of anything that stands out about either of them. Watch their vote patterns, watch how they interact with other players. Since their posting doesn't give much away, you need to connect them to other people who have confirmed alignments.
Chezinu. He's basically unreadable. However, with what went on with Nisani earlier, I think it is quite likely that he is town.
Remember, we only have a 12 player game. This means that vote patterns are going to be one of your strongest tool for connecting players. I encourage each and every one of you to keep a file on your computer with the final vote tallies for each day, and highlight players with their alignment color when they flip. For example, in a brief glance at this
On July 14 2011 10:34 LSB wrote: Radfield Kurumi chaos13 Jackal58 Nisani201
we can see that Palmar, GM, and Chezinu all voted for someone who was not one of the two main candidates. This means that they do not have to be held accountable for being on a wrong lynch, while also not throwing votes onto Nisani. On Radfield we have four players. I am certain that Kurumi is town, and I know that I am, so that leaves Jackal as the only one whose alignment is in question. Shortly after this he switched his vote to Nisani, but it wasn't the deciding vote. Jackal's likelihood of being mafia just went up.
You guys want a roleclaim, so here it is.
Alignment: Town (Demolitions Expert) Ability: You can make landmines at the cost of 350,000 kronos each Inventory: 1 Land mine- You can set this up at night between two people. If either of the people try to target the other, instead they will be blown up.
I have created a testament as well. Everything in my possession will be going to a player I have a strong town read on. I was hoping this game would turn out better, but hopefully this post will be of some use when I flip Town.
If it was anyone who visited, that would be more of a problem. However, you place it between two specific players and it is only if one of those two visits each other that it is activated. As such, I have been recommending that one of the two targets be a strong suspect.
To whom have you been making these recommendations
I am not getting why chaos13 is scum out of blue. He wouldn't sell those fucking landmines but he would plant them instead and I strongly believe someone bought one. If scum got it, that's really bad. If Town, please fucking leave it alone and use as decoration together with the flowers in Your dinning room. I would STILL lynch Radfield, ON or heist are both good lynches.
On July 15 2011 02:36 syllogism wrote: Did you make the testament before day ended
Yes. At 8:59 to be exact.
Thanks Kurumi, nice to have someone with me here. Just out of curiosity, which one of you is killing me tonight? Or will I be the target of a wasted lynch tomorrow?
On July 15 2011 02:42 syllogism wrote: Well then I know for a fact you didn't sell anything or are lying about the testament. Either way, even disregarding that you are 100% scum
There are three things wrong with this statement. 1. I sold something 2. I am not lying about the testament 3. I am not scum
Now which one of you three (Palmar, sandroba, you) is killing me tonight?
On July 15 2011 02:42 syllogism wrote: Well then I know for a fact you didn't sell anything or are lying about the testament. Either way, even disregarding that you are 100% scum
There are three things wrong with this statement. 1. I sold something 2. I am not lying about the testament 3. I am not scum
Now which one of you three (Palmar, sandroba, you) is killing me tonight?
See you don't have all the information available, so it's easy to see why you made the mistake of claiming that. Anyway, you don't need to know
Fine. When I die and flip town, you need to claim it and the method of killing. If you do not, I fully expect town to systematically kill each of you three to find the scum inside your pretty little circle. It would be so easy for scum to kill me with encouragement from townies and not be questioned about it.
Unless Syllogism is playing super-mad-awesome-I-see-into-the-future-good scum game, Chaos13 basically lied.
Like there is no way about it, Chaos cannot both have created a testament and a contract, that contradicts something syllogism told me this morning, long before syllo or I had any idea what transactions Chaos13 would claim.
So please Chaos, explain why you're lying?
And if he's in fact telling the truth, we nail Syllo.
But yes, you guys have given statements that cannot both be true, and I think Syllo is telling the truth.
Oh shut up. How the hell was I supposed to know it was part of a role? That was a genuine question, since I made both a contract and a testament and I have no reason to think of why I could not do so.
If you're town I encourage you to PM someone and explain why, because if you're the only one who knows, then mafia can shoot you tonight and syllo will be safe, cause I'm not lying.
On July 15 2011 00:22 syllogism wrote: But hey Chaos13, to give you the benefit of the doubt, feel free to list people who you have
"have been recommending that one of the two targets be a strong suspect."
Oh, and have you sold any yet and if so, to whom
Radfield. In conversation with GM in PM land (or perhaps someone else, or both, I can't quite recall), we came to the conclusion that because there was such an obvious split lynch on Nisani/Radfield, that one of them had to be mafia. Since Nisani flipped mafia, that almost entirely clears Radfield of being mafia, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility of him being SK. Apparently in this game we have to kill both SK and mafia to win, meaning lynching SK is just as good or better than lynching mafia. I've since changed my opinion on Rad somewhat. Keep an eye on him. Don't take him out tomorrow without really good reason. However, if he goes into lurker mode over the next few days he is scum.
Palmar, syllogism, and sandroba. These guys are the three main ones attacking me right now, and it is all based on discussion in PM's. I think one out of the three of them is scum, but I really can't say for sure which one it is.
Jackal58 and GMarshal. These two are both really good players, and they're both giving me a really bad feeling that I can't quite place the origin of. I almost always have a scum read on Jackal early on, so there may not be too much into this, but I almost always find GM to be the towniest guy in the game when he plays as town. If Jackal doesn't start contributing more and improving his scumhunting, I would consider him a viable lynch target. GM, you just need to keep a close eye on.
OriginalName and heist. Flying way under the radar. At the moment I really can't think of anything that stands out about either of them. Watch their vote patterns, watch how they interact with other players. Since their posting doesn't give much away, you need to connect them to other people who have confirmed alignments.
Chezinu. He's basically unreadable. However, with what went on with Nisani earlier, I think it is quite likely that he is town.
Remember, we only have a 12 player game. This means that vote patterns are going to be one of your strongest tool for connecting players. I encourage each and every one of you to keep a file on your computer with the final vote tallies for each day, and highlight players with their alignment color when they flip. For example, in a brief glance at this
we can see that Palmar, GM, and Chezinu all voted for someone who was not one of the two main candidates. This means that they do not have to be held accountable for being on a wrong lynch, while also not throwing votes onto Nisani. On Radfield we have four players. I am certain that Kurumi is town, and I know that I am, so that leaves Jackal as the only one whose alignment is in question. Shortly after this he switched his vote to Nisani, but it wasn't the deciding vote. Jackal's likelihood of being mafia just went up.
You guys want a roleclaim, so here it is.
Alignment: Town (Demolitions Expert) Ability: You can make landmines at the cost of 350,000 kronos each Inventory: 1 Land mine- You can set this up at night between two people. If either of the people try to target the other, instead they will be blown up.
I have created a testament as well. Everything in my possession will be going to a player I have a strong town read on. I was hoping this game would turn out better, but hopefully this post will be of some use when I flip Town.
So your basically saying that 9/11 of us can be/are scum.
I like how he doesn't "reveal" who he testamented his stuff to, but thinks basically everyone is suspicious but Kurumi, who he is somehow certain is a townie. Chaos13, why is Kurumi town aligned? What has he done besides voted against lynching scum today
What's up guys? Guess what? I'm not gonna be answering any more of your stupid questions unless they'll actually end up being useful. Are you inquiring about my town reads? Why not ask about my scum reads instead? I'll be happy to discuss those with you guys.
Just your friendly neighborhood town demolitions expert getting tired of being called scum on weak evidence.
A question I really feel needs to be addressed is how syllogism and Palmar think they are confirmed town and everybody should roleclaim to them. But I won't inquire about that, because I'm being killed tonight. I'll just plant some seeds so when I flip town the rest of you can get on that stuff.
Anyway, I need to leave for a few hours to play golf.
Will be around for 20 more minutes or so.
I already have roleclaims from Kurumi, Syllogism, Sandroba, Radfield, Jackal58 and Chaos13 has claimed publicly in the thread. That means Heist, ON, Chezinu, GM need to claim.
If someone bought a mine from him, he should claim. Since you can place them between any two people, it shouldn't matter much if we know who he sold it to.
Cause by my calculations, and judging by the PM you sent me, you sold your landmine for 355,000 kronos, and of course you had to pay 10.000 to LSB bank.
That makes 1,345,000 kronos.
But why aren't there additional 20,000 kronos missing from paying for your testament?
On July 15 2011 03:51 syllogism wrote: If someone bought a mine from him, he should claim. Since you can place them between any two people, it shouldn't matter much if we know who he sold it to.
On July 15 2011 03:53 Palmar wrote: Cause by my calculations, and judging by the PM you sent me, you sold your landmine for 355,000 kronos, and of course you had to pay 10.000 to LSB bank.
That makes 1,345,000 kronos.
But why aren't there additional 20,000 kronos missing from paying for your testament?
Because I'm assuming that is calculated at the end of the cycle.
I may as well just stop posting now. You guys are gonna kill me no matter what I say, so I'll just leave you to it. I'll be sure to drop by at the day post for a resounding "I told you so!" though.
On July 15 2011 03:53 Palmar wrote: Cause by my calculations, and judging by the PM you sent me, you sold your landmine for 355,000 kronos, and of course you had to pay 10.000 to LSB bank.
That makes 1,345,000 kronos.
But why aren't there additional 20,000 kronos missing from paying for your testament?
Because I'm assuming that is calculated at the end of the cycle.
I may as well just stop posting now. You guys are gonna kill me no matter what I say, so I'll just leave you to it. I'll be sure to drop by at the day post for a resounding "I told you so!" though.
I already made a giant post of my opinions on players, and that was pretty much ignored except for ON to criticize it. Really, nothing I say will make any difference at this point. I've got the entire player roster except for you tunneling on me
On July 15 2011 05:15 chaos13 wrote: I already made a giant post of my opinions on players, and that was pretty much ignored except for ON to criticize it. Really, nothing I say will make any difference at this point. I've got the entire player roster except for you tunneling on me
You listed GM and Jackal as the scummiest guys or? Who should be lynched tomorrow instead of You?
It depends on what this deal with mine and syllogism's statements contradicting is. If my flipping town proves syllo lied, then syllogism should be lynched. If that doesn't turn out to be the case, I would suggest heist or OriginalName.
Nisani the Mafia Tekkie has had his throat ripped apart.
I honestly did not think Nisani would flip scum.... I spent about a half hour chatting with him last night, trying to come to an agreement with him to move his vote onto Jackal(who I thought was scum). I explained to him that I would also vote Jackal, and along with Chez and GM(who I thought would have) we could get him lynched. I also explained that the only way he wouldn't die was if he followed this plan.
However, Nisani was extremely reluctant to follow this plan, and refused to switch his vote. He insisted that one of me or Kurumi had to be scum. In fact, his alternate plan was that he would post a large analysis on Kurumi and try to get him lynched(this is with 2 hours left). I explained to him that trying to start in on Kurumi would only ensure his own death. It was a very confusing conversation, and seemed like Nisani really had no grasp on the situation at hand.
Anyways, the conversation solidified for me the fact that Kurumi is very likely town(given that Nisani flipped red). It also implicates Jackal considering that Nisani refused to switch votes onto him. I don't understand why a mafia would be reluctant to switch onto a townie to save his own hide, especially when I would have likely taken the blame for the lynch-switch.
On July 14 2011 10:57 Jackal58 wrote: ##UNVOTE: Radfield ##VOTE: Nisani
I don't want no scummy shenanigans.
all the more scummy, considering Jackal jumped on the bandwagon(or the bus) at the last minute.
Is this a complete indictment of Jackal? Nope.
1) Nisani seemed very confused about the general situation and his overall options.
2) Jackal may have switched votes simply to ensure that a vote-switch to him was impossible.
_________________
Anyways, I have yet to reread the thread, but Gmarsh is fairly scummy right now.
Consider: He came into the thread to make a huge defense of me, but then DID NOT put his vote down on Nisani, leaving my fate up in the air. If he truly wanted to save me, he needed to vote for NIsani, and not try to start up a third option with Heist. That being said, the lynch never came down to the wire so it's unclear whether he would have switched over to save me towards the end.
But if Nisani and Gmarsh were both mafia, his actions make perfect sense. Save Radfield and gain pro-town credit from the other sensible players, but redirect the lynch off of Nisani onto a semi-lurker.
As a general aside, his policy lurker-lynching attitude is very anti-town. I posted in detail why lynching lurkers day 1 was bad, and he never responded. I think if he truly felt that lynching lurkers was the right play, he would have replied to my criticism and discussed it more.
Ain't this post a gem Where oh where did those reads on GM and Chaos come from?
On July 13 2011 06:39 Nisani201 wrote: I make one post and now everyone is all over me? WTF?
The only reason why you guys think that the post is scummy is because it isn't super confident. I wasn't being very confident about it because there was so little evidence; Day 1 reads should never yield absolute confidence IMO. I doubt he will get lynched today but I was just suggesting that it would be better to lynch him because of scumminess rather than a lurker.
I don't think we should lynch Chezinu because he's not posting. If he completely lurks then he will just get modkilled anyways.
Anyways, I guess I'll post my opinions on some players now, because I'll probably be asked to do so anyways sooner or later.
Radfield - Appears to be full of contradictions and scumslips. They are forgivable but we should definitely keep an eye on him throughout Day 2.
Kurumi - He seems to be slowly easing off his tunneling of Radfield, probably because people are calling him scum. If he truly thought that Radfield were Mafia then I think he would be pressing a bit harder, but now he just seems to be acting for the crowd. Suspicious.
chaos13 - Playing pro-town; all of his posts have evidence behind them and have a lot of content. Doesn't seem suspicious.
GMarshal - Seems to be playing his standard leadership town role. I don't see a difference between his playstyle now and his playstyle from RTM so he seems innocent to me.
Nisani the Mafia Tekkie has had his throat ripped apart.
I honestly did not think Nisani would flip scum.... I spent about a half hour chatting with him last night, trying to come to an agreement with him to move his vote onto Jackal(who I thought was scum). I explained to him that I would also vote Jackal, and along with Chez and GM(who I thought would have) we could get him lynched. I also explained that the only way he wouldn't die was if he followed this plan.
However, Nisani was extremely reluctant to follow this plan, and refused to switch his vote. He insisted that one of me or Kurumi had to be scum. In fact, his alternate plan was that he would post a large analysis on Kurumi and try to get him lynched(this is with 2 hours left). I explained to him that trying to start in on Kurumi would only ensure his own death. It was a very confusing conversation, and seemed like Nisani really had no grasp on the situation at hand.
Anyways, the conversation solidified for me the fact that Kurumi is very likely town(given that Nisani flipped red). It also implicates Jackal considering that Nisani refused to switch votes onto him. I don't understand why a mafia would be reluctant to switch onto a townie to save his own hide, especially when I would have likely taken the blame for the lynch-switch.
On July 14 2011 10:57 Jackal58 wrote: ##UNVOTE: Radfield ##VOTE: Nisani
I don't want no scummy shenanigans.
all the more scummy, considering Jackal jumped on the bandwagon(or the bus) at the last minute.
Is this a complete indictment of Jackal? Nope.
1) Nisani seemed very confused about the general situation and his overall options.
2) Jackal may have switched votes simply to ensure that a vote-switch to him was impossible.
_________________
Anyways, I have yet to reread the thread, but Gmarsh is fairly scummy right now.
Consider: He came into the thread to make a huge defense of me, but then DID NOT put his vote down on Nisani, leaving my fate up in the air. If he truly wanted to save me, he needed to vote for NIsani, and not try to start up a third option with Heist. That being said, the lynch never came down to the wire so it's unclear whether he would have switched over to save me towards the end.
But if Nisani and Gmarsh were both mafia, his actions make perfect sense. Save Radfield and gain pro-town credit from the other sensible players, but redirect the lynch off of Nisani onto a semi-lurker.
As a general aside, his policy lurker-lynching attitude is very anti-town. I posted in detail why lynching lurkers day 1 was bad, and he never responded. I think if he truly felt that lynching lurkers was the right play, he would have replied to my criticism and discussed it more.
I changed votes to ensure that a vote switch to you wasn't possible. At the time Nisani had 5 votes. You had 4. At the time I felt you were probable SK (Nothing changed there) My belief that Nisani was scum rose a bit after his final post. I already told you how I saw him react to pressure in CCM. Nisani as scum has help. You as SK do not. If scum was hiding a vote on Nisani they could have easily switched it to you in the last second. If you're SK great. If you're not not so great. So I switched votes to keep that from happening. Don't like it fine. I'm hoping to get you lynched today.
On July 15 2011 03:48 Palmar wrote: Anyway, I need to leave for a few hours to play golf.
Will be around for 20 more minutes or so.
I already have roleclaims from Kurumi, Syllogism, Sandroba, Radfield, Jackal58 and Chaos13 has claimed publicly in the thread. That means Heist, ON, Chezinu, GM need to claim.
Nisani the Mafia Tekkie has had his throat ripped apart.
I honestly did not think Nisani would flip scum.... I spent about a half hour chatting with him last night, trying to come to an agreement with him to move his vote onto Jackal(who I thought was scum). I explained to him that I would also vote Jackal, and along with Chez and GM(who I thought would have) we could get him lynched. I also explained that the only way he wouldn't die was if he followed this plan.
However, Nisani was extremely reluctant to follow this plan, and refused to switch his vote. He insisted that one of me or Kurumi had to be scum. In fact, his alternate plan was that he would post a large analysis on Kurumi and try to get him lynched(this is with 2 hours left). I explained to him that trying to start in on Kurumi would only ensure his own death. It was a very confusing conversation, and seemed like Nisani really had no grasp on the situation at hand.
Anyways, the conversation solidified for me the fact that Kurumi is very likely town(given that Nisani flipped red). It also implicates Jackal considering that Nisani refused to switch votes onto him. I don't understand why a mafia would be reluctant to switch onto a townie to save his own hide, especially when I would have likely taken the blame for the lynch-switch.
On July 14 2011 10:57 Jackal58 wrote: ##UNVOTE: Radfield ##VOTE: Nisani
I don't want no scummy shenanigans.
all the more scummy, considering Jackal jumped on the bandwagon(or the bus) at the last minute.
Is this a complete indictment of Jackal? Nope.
1) Nisani seemed very confused about the general situation and his overall options.
2) Jackal may have switched votes simply to ensure that a vote-switch to him was impossible.
_________________
Anyways, I have yet to reread the thread, but Gmarsh is fairly scummy right now.
Consider: He came into the thread to make a huge defense of me, but then DID NOT put his vote down on Nisani, leaving my fate up in the air. If he truly wanted to save me, he needed to vote for NIsani, and not try to start up a third option with Heist. That being said, the lynch never came down to the wire so it's unclear whether he would have switched over to save me towards the end.
But if Nisani and Gmarsh were both mafia, his actions make perfect sense. Save Radfield and gain pro-town credit from the other sensible players, but redirect the lynch off of Nisani onto a semi-lurker.
As a general aside, his policy lurker-lynching attitude is very anti-town. I posted in detail why lynching lurkers day 1 was bad, and he never responded. I think if he truly felt that lynching lurkers was the right play, he would have replied to my criticism and discussed it more.
I changed votes to ensure that a vote switch to you wasn't possible. At the time Nisani had 5 votes. You had 4. At the time I felt you were probable SK (Nothing changed there) My belief that Nisani was scum rose a bit after his final post. I already told you how I saw him react to pressure in CCM. Nisani as scum has help. You as SK do not. If scum was hiding a vote on Nisani they could have easily switched it to you in the last second. If you're SK great. If you're not not so great. So I switched votes to keep that from happening. Don't like it fine. I'm hoping to get you lynched today.
Hmm, I think maybe you misunderstood my post.
1) Nisani seemed very confused about the general situation and his overall options.
2) Jackal may have switched votes simply to ensure that a vote-switch to him was impossible.
These two points were to show evidence of you NOT being scum.
On July 15 2011 04:23 syllogism wrote: I don't think we really need to go on, but
Almost. You'll see I mentioned early on that I would not sell them to anyone on my suspect list. No reason to give them to someone who is mafia.
Jackal58 and GMarshal. These two are both really good players, and they're both giving me a really bad feeling that I can't quite place the origin of
And he sold it to jackal
Apparently I wasn't scummy yesterday but today I am.
On July 14 2011 09:09 chaos13 wrote: Jackal is an interesting candidate. He hasn't given me a strong read either way, and he has a tendency to be somewhat absent and unopinionated on Day 1. I wouldn't want to lynch him today based only on the evidence you put forth. What I see in your analysis is enough cause to be watching him closely, but not near enough to be comfortable lynching him over Radfield.
And Chezinu, bandwagoning is bad. Don't do it.
What I see in your analysis is enough cause to be watching him closely
Did you sell him your mine before or after you came to this conclusion chaos?
I'll admit that I don't get the case against Chaos right now, but it seems that Syllo and Palmar are holding cards that I can't see. If there truly is a lie somewhere in between Chaos and Syllo, then that's great, but I really hope that you guys(Palmar and Syllo) have considered any other alternatives.
Palmar and Syllogism, are you guys 100% sure that Chaos13 is scum? Keep in mind that 100% sure is the equivalent to a dt check in a game with no GF/Framer/etc. If that's the case than I'll back it.
LSB: If anyone made a testament today, would he already have been charged the money, or does it get charged at daybreak?
If Chaos isn't lying about the testament, then that slightly reduces the suspicion on him.
I have the roles of everyone in the game except for heist. Although I'm inclined to disbelieve Chez being a bank. Some of the others may be lying but we can dissect that tomorrow.
I still think Chaos13 is our best lynch tomorrow, closely followed by ON or Radfield. Chezinu is completely unreadable, but he is exclusively trolling this game so he is probably a good vigi target, as we're never going to get a read on him. Barring that, a DT check would be good.
If everything goes according to plan I will reveal almost every role tomorrow, I think there's almost nothing important in the claims that I have gotten enough to warrant holding it back. Then we just continue on day 2 with mass claims.
I will also reveal the order I got the claims in, I'm inclined to believe the later I got the claims, the more likely they were fabricated by scum, although this isn't really a strong tell.
But most importantly, we can match claims to behavior and see who doesn't fit.
Some claims need to be outed tonight in PMs, I have sent everyone all the information they need to continue playing this game.
There's a very easy way to prove if Chez is a bank. Join, and try making a contract in real time. If he's lying, it won't work. If he's truthful, it will work.
On July 15 2011 08:29 Palmar wrote: LSB: If anyone made a testament today, would he already have been charged the money, or does it get charged at daybreak?
Nisani the Mafia Tekkie has had his throat ripped apart.
I honestly did not think Nisani would flip scum.... I spent about a half hour chatting with him last night, trying to come to an agreement with him to move his vote onto Jackal(who I thought was scum). I explained to him that I would also vote Jackal, and along with Chez and GM(who I thought would have) we could get him lynched. I also explained that the only way he wouldn't die was if he followed this plan.
However, Nisani was extremely reluctant to follow this plan, and refused to switch his vote. He insisted that one of me or Kurumi had to be scum. In fact, his alternate plan was that he would post a large analysis on Kurumi and try to get him lynched(this is with 2 hours left). I explained to him that trying to start in on Kurumi would only ensure his own death. It was a very confusing conversation, and seemed like Nisani really had no grasp on the situation at hand.
Anyways, the conversation solidified for me the fact that Kurumi is very likely town(given that Nisani flipped red). It also implicates Jackal considering that Nisani refused to switch votes onto him. I don't understand why a mafia would be reluctant to switch onto a townie to save his own hide, especially when I would have likely taken the blame for the lynch-switch.
On July 14 2011 10:57 Jackal58 wrote: ##UNVOTE: Radfield ##VOTE: Nisani
I don't want no scummy shenanigans.
all the more scummy, considering Jackal jumped on the bandwagon(or the bus) at the last minute.
Is this a complete indictment of Jackal? Nope.
1) Nisani seemed very confused about the general situation and his overall options.
2) Jackal may have switched votes simply to ensure that a vote-switch to him was impossible.
_________________
Anyways, I have yet to reread the thread, but Gmarsh is fairly scummy right now.
Consider: He came into the thread to make a huge defense of me, but then DID NOT put his vote down on Nisani, leaving my fate up in the air. If he truly wanted to save me, he needed to vote for NIsani, and not try to start up a third option with Heist. That being said, the lynch never came down to the wire so it's unclear whether he would have switched over to save me towards the end.
But if Nisani and Gmarsh were both mafia, his actions make perfect sense. Save Radfield and gain pro-town credit from the other sensible players, but redirect the lynch off of Nisani onto a semi-lurker.
As a general aside, his policy lurker-lynching attitude is very anti-town. I posted in detail why lynching lurkers day 1 was bad, and he never responded. I think if he truly felt that lynching lurkers was the right play, he would have replied to my criticism and discussed it more.
I changed votes to ensure that a vote switch to you wasn't possible. At the time Nisani had 5 votes. You had 4. At the time I felt you were probable SK (Nothing changed there) My belief that Nisani was scum rose a bit after his final post. I already told you how I saw him react to pressure in CCM. Nisani as scum has help. You as SK do not. If scum was hiding a vote on Nisani they could have easily switched it to you in the last second. If you're SK great. If you're not not so great. So I switched votes to keep that from happening. Don't like it fine. I'm hoping to get you lynched today.
@Chaos13 Just one thing. Why did you not use the mines yourself instead of trying to sell them? You had enough money for 3 mines and so why not just place the mines yourself and try to kill scum instead of giving scum the oportunity to influence where they get placed? Trying to sell them to whoever was not pro-town in the slightest.
Hello this is LSB Banking. I am currently happy with my account balance so I will provide to you the police report, free of charge.
Early last night at about 1 AM, Kurumi the townie was found dead. It was determined that the cause was due to an explosive.
Later on in the night at about 4 AM Chaos13 the Demolitions Expert was found dead. It was determined that the cause of death was due to multiple .45 ACP bullets fired at close range.
Notifications and day transfers of money will occur shortly. I thank you for your business.
Last night, there was an enemy of the bank who tried to gain access to bank member's Cheznos. Fortunately, the Chezinu Banking Security System was able to repel the attempt. The burglar is still on the loose, but the Chezinu Bank Investigation Team will deploy spy planes to locate the intruder. The President of Chezinu Banking states that the public can rest assure that their accounts have remained unharmed.
Chezinu is scum. There are two different kinds of trolling by chezinu. The completely useless one, when he only posts unhelpfull funny nonsense (see PYPI) and the one which he actively looks for mafia in a troll like fashion (see CCM and that other old game he was DT, forgot which). This game it's pretty obvious which one that is. Now let's look at chez actions: He claimed to have started the wagon against nisani, but that is false and an atempt to buy cred. I made the analysis and voted for him first. He then unvoted nisani out of the blue when he was close to getting lynched, possibly lynching Radfield. Radfield is very likely not scum, by occam's razor.
On July 15 2011 12:19 sandroba wrote: Chezinu is scum. There are two different kinds of trolling by chezinu. The completely useless one, when he only posts unhelpfull funny nonsense (see PYPI) and the one which he actively looks for mafia in a troll like fashion (see CCM and that other old game he was DT, forgot which). This game it's pretty obvious which one that is. Now let's look at chez actions: He claimed to have started the wagon against nisani, but that is false and an atempt to buy cred. I made the analysis and voted for him first. He then unvoted nisani out of the blue when he was close to getting lynched, possibly lynching Radfield. Radfield is very likely not scum, by occam's razor.
Don't care. From what I gather you sent only troll pms so far. If someone received any relevant pms from chezinu pls claim. The ones I know about including mine where completely irrelevant to the game.
On July 15 2011 12:19 sandroba wrote: Chezinu is scum. There are two different kinds of trolling by chezinu. The completely useless one, when he only posts unhelpfull funny nonsense (see PYPI) and the one which he actively looks for mafia in a troll like fashion (see CCM and that other old game he was DT, forgot which). This game it's pretty obvious which one that is. Now let's look at chez actions: He claimed to have started the wagon against nisani, but that is false and an atempt to buy cred. I made the analysis and voted for him first. He then unvoted nisani out of the blue when he was close to getting lynched, possibly lynching Radfield. Radfield is very likely not scum, by occam's razor.
If he is scum then I'd have to assume hes SK since,
a) He claims to have taken a hit and now unless SOME IDIOT decided to sell mafia a bulletproof vest (ie claim now or else) hes SK as they are bulletproof. (I recall asking LSB that and he said it was true).
b) Hes not and hes actually an immortal banker, at which point I have no fucking idea what is going on with his role.
Chezinu, do you claim to have taken a hit? Where does all that info come from ON? Your blind faith in all this trollage makes me believe he is mafia and thus Chezinu must not. Anyway, Chezinu as sk does make sense. I imagine jackal planted chaos13's bomb between kurumi and Chezinu. Chezinu kills kurumi to incriminate radfield as sk. kurumi dies and chezinu survives the bomb hit due to vest. Can Jackal pls confirm this theory?
On July 15 2011 13:52 sandroba wrote: Chezinu, do you claim to have taken a hit? Where does all that info come from ON? Your blind faith in all this trollage makes me believe he is mafia and thus Chezinu must not. Anyway, Chezinu as sk does make sense. I imagine jackal planted chaos13's bomb between kurumi and Chezinu. Chezinu kills kurumi to incriminate radfield as sk. kurumi dies and chezinu survives the bomb hit due to vest. Can Jackal pls confirm this theory?
Your really bad at this.. Its like your trying to be bad on purpose..
ON is much better at this
I want Radfield to figure out all the hidden content in my posts before I have to reveal. Oh, I don't send out just troll PMs. However, it is highly likely that mafia only receive troll PMs from me.
I know you know what is going on. I mentioned this yesterday in the thread. Please allow time for Rad to figure it out before you reveal the content in my post. Oh and while you wait, Find the Empress!
If you don't want to wait for GM or I to reveal or Rad to figure out the content of my posts. I would suggest compiling all of my posts and then match them up to the day and night posts. You will find a fascinating correlation.
Actually scratch that, ON is a lying scum and deserves to hang tonight.
You see, remember last night when we were pressing chaos about the contracts? The reason is that Syllogism has an ability that tells him how much money is left in the game in total every night.
At the start of the game we had 12 million kronos in the game, 1 million disappeared when tekkie died and another 1 when kurumi died. Chaos13 testamented his stuff to me. some cash also got sucked out of the game through LSB contract fees and testament fees.
But here is the problem. ON has claimed started the game with 1.5 million, which doesn't fit at all. But the most interesting fact is that he claimed to have bought items from Nisani and paid 500k kronos for them, so now he has 1 million kronos.
So that's lie number 1. Everyone started the game with 1 million kronos. ON is lying about his initial cash amount.
And on to lie number 2.
He couldn't possibly have finalized any contract with Nisani, because nisani got lynched so his deals would not have gone through.
And then there is the tiny little fact that ON claimed a very shitty role. Here are some pms between me and him.
Original Message From OriginalName: I Have 1 million atm i bought the probably boobied DT cloak for 500k (started with 1.5mil) and some bulletproof vest appeared in it last night Im not sure how though. LSB doesnt send me updates on whats in it unless I ask him, so It might be awhile before I can give you a full inventory as most of this is based purely off memory.
Original Message From Palmar: I need to both know the exact amount of money you have, and I need to know every item you have.
Original Message From OriginalName: Im a Vault Keeper.
Im disallowed from using items but I have an item that allows the taking and giving items for free. However the vault can only be opened by those with the password, I am still able to buy items like normal people but was given somewhat more cash.
All I have is a few items i got from Nisani early in the game so Im assuming their boobied.
Are contracts processed before or after lynch. That is, if someone gets lynched, will his contract go through
The thing is, it doesn't even matter because contracts cost money and I can tell how many contracts have been made based on how much money disappears. All the money lost is accounted for.
On July 16 2011 00:28 Palmar wrote: Actually scratch that, ON is a lying scum and deserves to hang tonight.
You see, remember last night when we were pressing chaos about the contracts? The reason is that Syllogism has an ability that tells him how much money is left in the game in total every night.
At the start of the game we had 12 million kronos in the game, 1 million disappeared when tekkie died and another 1 when kurumi died. Chaos13 testamented his stuff to me. some cash also got sucked out of the game through LSB contract fees and testament fees.
But here is the problem. ON has claimed started the game with 1.5 million, which doesn't fit at all. But the most interesting fact is that he claimed to have bought items from Nisani and paid 500k kronos for them, so now he has 1 million kronos.
So that's lie number 1. Everyone started the game with 1 million kronos. ON is lying about his initial cash amount.
And on to lie number 2.
He couldn't possibly have finalized any contract with Nisani, because nisani got lynched so his deals would not have gone through.
And then there is the tiny little fact that ON claimed a very shitty role. Here are some pms between me and him.
Original Message From OriginalName: I Have 1 million atm i bought the probably boobied DT cloak for 500k (started with 1.5mil) and some bulletproof vest appeared in it last night Im not sure how though. LSB doesnt send me updates on whats in it unless I ask him, so It might be awhile before I can give you a full inventory as most of this is based purely off memory.
Original Message From Palmar: I need to both know the exact amount of money you have, and I need to know every item you have.
Original Message From OriginalName: Im a Vault Keeper.
Im disallowed from using items but I have an item that allows the taking and giving items for free. However the vault can only be opened by those with the password, I am still able to buy items like normal people but was given somewhat more cash.
All I have is a few items i got from Nisani early in the game so Im assuming their boobied.
OriginalName is scum
##Vote OriginalName
I'm going to start with this, there is nothing saying there is or is not exceptions to this rule, and if you bothered to actually look at it you would realize I CANT BLOODY USE ITEMS. Another note is if you notice I had a vault with free access to items and money, I traded using that its not hard at all, money goes in money goes out item goes in i change vault password GG.
Stop assuming that everything is going to follow every single mechanic to the letter. Im convinced the item he gave me is boobied purely based off the fact that he even gave it to me.
On July 16 2011 00:28 Palmar wrote: Actually scratch that, ON is a lying scum and deserves to hang tonight.
You see, remember last night when we were pressing chaos about the contracts? The reason is that Syllogism has an ability that tells him how much money is left in the game in total every night.
At the start of the game we had 12 million kronos in the game, 1 million disappeared when tekkie died and another 1 when kurumi died. Chaos13 testamented his stuff to me. some cash also got sucked out of the game through LSB contract fees and testament fees.
But here is the problem. ON has claimed started the game with 1.5 million, which doesn't fit at all. But the most interesting fact is that he claimed to have bought items from Nisani and paid 500k kronos for them, so now he has 1 million kronos.
So that's lie number 1. Everyone started the game with 1 million kronos. ON is lying about his initial cash amount.
And on to lie number 2.
He couldn't possibly have finalized any contract with Nisani, because nisani got lynched so his deals would not have gone through.
And then there is the tiny little fact that ON claimed a very shitty role. Here are some pms between me and him.
Original Message From OriginalName: I Have 1 million atm i bought the probably boobied DT cloak for 500k (started with 1.5mil) and some bulletproof vest appeared in it last night Im not sure how though. LSB doesnt send me updates on whats in it unless I ask him, so It might be awhile before I can give you a full inventory as most of this is based purely off memory.
Original Message From Palmar: I need to both know the exact amount of money you have, and I need to know every item you have.
Original Message From OriginalName: Im a Vault Keeper.
Im disallowed from using items but I have an item that allows the taking and giving items for free. However the vault can only be opened by those with the password, I am still able to buy items like normal people but was given somewhat more cash.
All I have is a few items i got from Nisani early in the game so Im assuming their boobied.
OriginalName is scum
##Vote OriginalName
I'm going to start with this, there is nothing saying there is or is not exceptions to this rule, and if you bothered to actually look at it you would realize I CANT BLOODY USE ITEMS. Another note is if you notice I had a vault with free access to items and money, I traded using that its not hard at all, money goes in money goes out item goes in i change vault password GG.
Stop assuming that everything is going to follow every single mechanic to the letter. Im convinced the item he gave me is boobied purely based off the fact that he even gave it to me.
On July 16 2011 00:36 syllogism wrote: What's the point of the vault again
Beats me I was just going to find people that were townies and give them the PW so they could exchange items faster / free between them. I actually offered this to GM but I think he suspected me and turned it down. Good thing too, Nisani turned out scum and I was going to give him the DT item.
The only possibility I can see is that due to it being later in the day Nisani just forgot to take the 500k out of the vault. I dont get updated constantly on the contents so I asked LSB to send me a PM with whats in it right now, I will POST THE FULL CONTENTS when I receive them.
On July 16 2011 00:42 OriginalName wrote: The only possibility I can see is that due to it being later in the day Nisani just forgot to take the 500k out of the vault. I dont get updated constantly on the contents so I asked LSB to send me a PM with whats in it right now, I will POST THE FULL CONTENTS when I receive them.
But then syllo would've had the information that 12.5 million kronos were in the game at the start of the game
On July 16 2011 00:42 OriginalName wrote: The only possibility I can see is that due to it being later in the day Nisani just forgot to take the 500k out of the vault. I dont get updated constantly on the contents so I asked LSB to send me a PM with whats in it right now, I will POST THE FULL CONTENTS when I receive them.
But then syllo would've had the information that 12.5 million kronos were in the game at the start of the game
:D
How do you know hes not fake claiming for all you know he could be scum too.
And why haven't you even attempted to use your role in a pro-town fashion?
You should have been the middle of the town discussion as you could've made it possible for all of town to confirm themselves by handing items over and back very easily, thus proving they exist.
OriginalName your Fired!!1 you have yet to supply me with my proper logo and membership card design! Not only that, but your a spy! Your the infiltrator!! You tried to rob my Bank!! OriginalName is an enemy of the Chezinu Banking System. The Spy planes confirm. There can only be one.. Trying to run your own vault... THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!! aside from LSB b/c he is cool!
On July 16 2011 01:05 Palmar wrote: Chezinu, are you immune to night kills?
I can't answer that question until Rad and GM show up. THEY GOTZ RIDDLES TO SOLVE. That would be a big spoiler. I can't believe GM still hasn't found the empress yet. If that was a contract, I hope he fulfills it in time..
ps: sand did you get roleblock b/c you didn't fulfill a contract?
Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
On July 16 2011 01:00 Chezinu wrote: OriginalName your Fired!!1 you have yet to supply me with my proper logo and membership card design! Not only that, but your a spy! Your the infiltrator!! You tried to rob my Bank!! OriginalName is an enemy of the Chezinu Banking System. The Spy planes confirm. There can only be one.. Trying to run your own vault... THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!! aside from LSB b/c he is cool!
On July 16 2011 01:10 sandroba wrote: Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
I should have known... hiring ON as a Design Artist.. He he turn "on" me... He stole my vault.. he changed the passwords.. how could this happen?
On July 16 2011 01:10 sandroba wrote: Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
I should have known... hiring ON as a Design Artist.. He he turn "on" me... He stole my vault.. he changed the passwords.. how could this happen?
On July 16 2011 01:10 sandroba wrote: Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
I should have known... hiring ON as a Design Artist.. He he turn "on" me... He stole my vault.. he changed the passwords.. how could this happen?
On July 16 2011 01:10 sandroba wrote: Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
I should have known... hiring ON as a Design Artist.. He he turn "on" me... He stole my vault.. he changed the passwords.. how could this happen?
Not my fault your a sociopathic murderer.
I wouldn't bank on it.
I dunno man maybe you should withdraw from the business.
On July 16 2011 01:10 sandroba wrote: Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
I should have known... hiring ON as a Design Artist.. He he turn "on" me... He stole my vault.. he changed the passwords.. how could this happen?
Not my fault your a sociopathic murderer.
I wouldn't bank on it.
I dunno man maybe you should withdraw from the business.
That wouldn't be fine for me.. I couldn't live with out it.
On July 16 2011 01:10 sandroba wrote: Also how exactly nisani suddenly discovered you had this role? Did you consider him townie enough to pm him so he could use your vault? I don't think you are lying about your role btw. This role is great for mafia so they get to transfer their items before they get lynched.
I didnt really consider him that townie this was before i voted for him mind you. However i thought to take him up on his offer as if he flipped townie id find someone to use it. I just made sure to empty the vault out before hand and change the PW after the transaction was done. I told him I could do it similer to chezinu but without the officiality.
On July 16 2011 01:27 sandroba wrote: I'm asking how did he discover you were a vault.
I gave him access to it? I dunno I figured he wasnt going to live the day so i let him in, I changed the PW. its really not difficult. its letting people take the items i was worried about.
Also another extremelly funny bit. Nisani knowing that you were townie and he was going to flip red decided to blindly trust you and give you half his money. Makes a lot of sense too.
On July 16 2011 01:45 sandroba wrote: Also another extremelly funny bit. Nisani knowing that you were townie and he was going to flip red decided to blindly trust you and give you half his money. Makes a lot of sense too.
I wonder where the other half of the money went.. lol
I'm afraid the drama is over, unless GM and Radfield have something very important to say, then ON will be hanging once the waiting for 48 hours game is over.
So how exactly did a mysterious BPV get inside your vault?
You claim no one else had access to your vault other than nisani and yourself. You did not start with a BPV. So nisani just secretly slipped you an extra BPV with no mention of it?
And essentially you paid 500k for the cloak and nisani just gives the money back to you when he's about to die?
Why give you anything at all and not his scum teammates in a testament unless you are scum when it's looking as if he's about to die?
I find it funny that ON is going to kill many people with his deadly vault. If only they knew that once one sets their eyes upon the treasure they would be doomed.. He try took my vault and turned it into a bank of future demise..
On July 16 2011 09:45 LSB wrote: We are currently looking for a replacement. Please PM me if you are interested
Who are you replacing?
Sorry for my absence. I had a brutal day at work. Occasionally they do expect me to do something. Apparently I am responsible for Kurumi's death. I'm sorry dude I had no intention. I was under the impression you were going to bus somebody else. I was told by Chaos that the mine explodes at night. If I didn't use it it would kill me. So I placed it on what I thought would be a neutral target. I don't know if Kurumi visited me or if the individual he bussed visited me. I am in no shape mentally atm to try to figure out LSB's bus driver mechanics or Kurumi's motivations. I am sorry though. I had no intentions of killing anybody. I am no longer in possession of a mine so I must assume it was mine (no pun intended) that killed him. I received no message from LSB telling me my mine exploded. I only received my inventory update with the day post.It did not contain a mine. I will post my opinions and thoughts of today's events tomorrow morning. I am now going to go get some sleep. My apologies for my inactivity but work takes precedence.
OK, I also had a busy day yesterday, and went to bed at 8PM
Sorry for being afk on you Chez, I still haven't had a chance to look at your posts.... but I'll do my best to find some time.
This whole thread confuses me right now, as does last nights activity.
Lets see if I have this right.
Jackal placed his mine between himself and Kurumi.
Kurumi tried to bus drive Jackal and Chezinu, but was killed by the mine.
Chezinu was attacked in some way or another, either with KP or attempted theft(can't really tell).
Sandro was roleblocked
Chez claimed a kill last night, so presumably he killed Chaos since that is the only unclaimed kill?
This means that the mafia tried to kill Chez last night, which clears him from being mafia? However, it doesn't make much sense for mafia to try and kill Chez. So unless Kurumi's bus drivering went through, and mafia shot at Jackal, it still doesn't make a lot of sense.
Anything else I'm missing?
Vote: OriginalName for all the obvious reasons.
Palmar, why did you announce my bat in the thread? And why did you announce it going to Jackal? You were the one who told me to not reveal it in the thread(like I intended). I sincerely hope you are flipping it from Jackal to a different player, or else it is rather useless.
Contract with Radfield for bat has been submitted to LSB.
I think I'm caught up. That doesn't mean I understand wtf is going on but I'm caught up.
Chez, can you explain this to me?
On July 15 2011 12:00 Chezinu wrote: Not only did I me bank terminate one you guys but I hinder your attempts.
Bank kills: 3 Mafia: 0
Who did you kill? And why? More importantly you claim scum hit you. How do you know scum hit you? How do you "know" scum isn't responsible for the Chaos13 hit? Are you the SK? That would seem to me to be the only way you could "know".
The GM business could no longer keep up with the world economy despite the fact that Chezinu Banking supplied the company with a bailout of 50,000 Cheznos by orders of the Empress. Fortunately, a business man, or rather dragon-man, decided to take an opportunity to buyout GM in order to turn the business around. The name of the company will now be known as the Dragon Cave. "For where the treasure is.. there lurks a dragon to protect it" is the company logo of the newly established business. The Dragon, aka the dragon-man, states that the company logo rings true and he by no means sees himself lagging behind the world economy with wings that can soar pass the lands, spotting any intruders that may attempt to sneak into his cave.
The GM business could no longer keep up with the world economy despite the fact that Chezinu Banking supplied the company with a bailout of 50,000 Cheznos by orders of the Empress. Fortunately, a business man, or rather dragon-man, decided to take an opportunity to buyout GM in order to turn the business around. The name of the company will now be known as the Dragon Cave. "For where the treasure is.. there lurks a dragon to protect it" is the company logo of the newly established business. The Dragon, aka the dragon-man, states that the company logo rings true and he by no means sees himself lagging behind the world economy with wings that can soar pass the lands, spotting any intruders that may attempt to sneak into his cave.
Before GM was bought out by The Dragon, he finished his quest with the Chezinu Banking System. So all of the prize money earned will then be stored in the refined dragon cave. Gm did not complete the bonus objective of his quest, so the top prize was not given out. Chezinu Banking says that they were glad to award the prize to a man that took interest in the great opportunities of the bank.
The GM business could no longer keep up with the world economy despite the fact that Chezinu Banking supplied the company with a bailout of 50,000 Cheznos by orders of the Empress. Fortunately, a business man, or rather dragon-man, decided to take an opportunity to buyout GM in order to turn the business around. The name of the company will now be known as the Dragon Cave. "For where the treasure is.. there lurks a dragon to protect it" is the company logo of the newly established business. The Dragon, aka the dragon-man, states that the company logo rings true and he by no means sees himself lagging behind the world economy with wings that can soar pass the lands, spotting any intruders that may attempt to sneak into his cave.
We're dt checking this guy tonight.
Why? that is a waste. I'm so pro-town. Are you going to check that I'm town-aligned and then kill me because I could still be mafia through behavior analysis that seemingly results in false accusations?
I was worried there was a way for players to steal items and I didn't want my baseball bat stolen. I thought GM was scummy at the time(still do), so I told him I only had money.
When Palmar asked for my role I told him straight up.
My spoilers are screwing up again, so here's the convo in order:
Radfield said: You got any good stuff for me ?
GM said: Depends on how you define "good" and "stuff". I actually have a couple different items I can sell, for the right price/equivalent items. What do you have on your end?
Radfield said:
Just dolla bills yo
Anyways, I'm really just trying to start up a dialogue...
Lurker lynch is bad
GM said I disagree, I love lynching lurkers, but you should already know that ;P
Anyway, any reads so far? I like how everyone concluded you were scum, its mildly amusing.
On July 17 2011 01:14 sandroba wrote: LOL, wouldn't you just fucking kill the thief in that case? Nice Radfield, really nice.
If it was a thief, then probably. However, if he had some from of protection from KP, he would be fine. The bat delivers 1 KP to the visitor, if he is medic protected, vet, BP or anything else he wouldn't die.
Even so, are you saying there is no conceivable way that items might be stolen from someone without triggering the Baseball Bat? If so then you're assuming far more than me. My starting role + item was fundementally unbalanced, which makes me assume that there are unbalanced items on the other side of the equation.
Why is it suspicious that I would lie to GM at the very beginning of the game? As opposed to spreading around exactly what I have or do not have?
Well, heres a test for you. After I give the bat to Jackal, go visit him. When you don't die, you'll know I was bullshitting about it being a PGO-type item.
I am leaving for the day. Hopefully I will be back before day ends. And I just realized I need to vote. My vote is going on Chezinu. If only to get his attention and answer my question. ##VOTE: Chezinu
On July 15 2011 12:00 Chezinu wrote: Not only did I me bank terminate one you guys but I hinder your attempts.
Bank kills: 3 Mafia: 0
Who did you kill? And why? More importantly you claim scum hit you. How do you know scum hit you? How do you "know" scum isn't responsible for the Chaos13 hit? Are you the SK? That would seem to me to be the only way you could "know".
I'm a bank. Why is that so hard to believe? Everyone seems to agree that ON is the evil vault keeper. but no one believes me.. i thought I would have a lot more real time contracts going through.. Seems that that mafia are the only ones who believe me. Probably cause they have a similar role on their team I'm guessing. How do I know scum hit me? Cause they told me. So far, 3 different people claimed that scum hit me after I stated that an intruder tried to rob my bank. As for chaos, I predicted his death. You can ask Kavdragon, that I made this prediction with GM (GM can confirm the PM conversation with Kavdragon). This is the second game in a row where all the people I talk to die or go inactive. Fortunately, Rad is back playing now.
Btw, I just missed your question. I was busy updating the bank news (proof I was rushing -- I had to make a double post -- didnt include both paragraphs). Then I answered Palmar's question.
On July 17 2011 04:49 Palmar wrote: btw chez, did you perchance sneak into your competitor's vault and snag all the items?
hoping that dt check cloak will save you when I check you tonight?
No, I didn't.
I did throw a Krono in the bank and then took it back out. In case the vault thing has sensor of who accessed it or not. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.
Sorry I'm not posting much, I've been fairly busy and with all the confusion, I'm still not sure what the heck is going on, or how people are confirmed. I'll try to get into PM contact with some of you, and catch up.
On July 17 2011 07:18 Kavdragon wrote: Can someone please explain to me why Original Name is still up for lynch?
There can only be one bank. If you read the mission objective in the OP, it says to eliminate the competition. Well, since I'm a bank -- he is my competition.
Look at the votes people! Wake up! Anyone read GM's SNMM 3? This EXACT thing happened, and I'm not going to sit by and let it happen again.
I built a very convincing case against OriginalName, and sure enough, the entire town followed it. Not one person was not voting for Original Name. I let it sit for a while, confused by how easily it had gone by, but then I looked at the second part of the facts: the reaction: THIS LYNCH MAKES NO SENSE. Everyone is voting for him, he still has a buddy, and the SK wouldn't want the mafia lynched either. No way that the second member is going down this easily.
I know, I know, there's a convincing case, he's reacted scummily, but LOOK AT SNMM3! It's so similar a repeat that it's scary! Think about the reaction people! I don't want to have to prove this point with another dead green. Even if we need to keep an eye on him, the reaction from the town, is one that clearly says "THIS GUY ISN"T SCUM"
On July 17 2011 07:29 Kavdragon wrote: Look at the votes people! Wake up! Anyone read GM's SNMM 3? This EXACT thing happened, and I'm not going to sit by and let it happen again.
I built a very convincing case against OriginalName, and sure enough, the entire town followed it. Not one person was not voting for Original Name. I let it sit for a while, confused by how easily it had gone by, but then I looked at the second part of the facts: the reaction: THIS LYNCH MAKES NO SENSE. Everyone is voting for him, he still has a buddy, and the SK wouldn't want the mafia lynched either. No way that the second member is going down this easily.
I know, I know, there's a convincing case, he's reacted scummily, but LOOK AT SNMM3! It's so similar a repeat that it's scary! Think about the reaction people! I don't want to have to prove this point with another dead green. Even if we need to keep an eye on him, the reaction from the town, is one that clearly says "THIS GUY ISN"T SCUM"
On July 17 2011 07:18 Kavdragon wrote: Can someone please explain to me why Original Name is still up for lynch?
There can only be one bank. If you read the mission objective in the OP, it says to eliminate the competition. Well, since I'm a bank -- he is my competition.
He's got a vault. One pitiful vault. Your banking institution is on a completely different level! He's only competition because you call him that. I don't think that anyone would say that his box with a lid is even comparable to your bank on any scale!
Besides, we must protect costumers and potential costumers. Without people, what is a bank? We must purge the infection first, then we can deal with petty differences like this.
[QUOTE]On July 17 2011 07:31 Kavdragon wrote: [QUOTE]On July 17 2011 07:27 Chezinu wrote: [QUOTE]On July 17 2011 07:18 Kavdragon wrote: Can someone please explain to me why Original Name is still up for lynch?[/QUOTE] potential costumers[/QUOTE]
The defense of particulerly point 3 was very weak. He said it as he was hoping this would be a fairly chill game.
While he also wanted a vest this is pure meta on Rad due to his usual short lifespan.
D2
Uh has he done anything? I think Palmars img was quite apt and his willingness to give up his bat has made me think hes trying too get townie cred... Or its boobied.
Look at this! The votes are so one sided that we will not only be killing an innocent, but we will be getting no information out of the lynch! Move to Radfield!
On July 17 2011 09:58 Kavdragon wrote: Syllogism, OriginalName had no support from anyone. This is an exact repeat of SNMM3. Vote radfield today
Switching now would look scummy imo and I've an image to maintain. We can lynch Rad for information tomorrow
Let me get this straight: You are going to let a townie die so that you can "maintain" your "image"?That's such an anti town position that It's not even funny. Think about what you are saying! It's people like you that got ON killed then, and now you are going to do it again?
On July 17 2011 09:58 Kavdragon wrote: Syllogism, OriginalName had no support from anyone. This is an exact repeat of SNMM3. Vote radfield today
Switching now would look scummy imo and I've an image to maintain. We can lynch Rad for information tomorrow
Let me get this straight: You are going to let a townie die so that you can "maintain" your "image"?That's such an anti town position that It's not even funny. Think about what you are saying! It's people like you that got ON killed then, and now you are going to do it again?
They are all under the Empress control.. there is nothing that can be done.. unless you find the answer. Yes! Let your next quest begin!
“C’mon. Do it. Pussy,” Palmar directed at his companion, voice filled with contempt, “What, are you too scared? Don’t want to get your hands dirty?”
OriginalName merely shook his head, his brave façade betrayed by the slight quivering of his voice as he spoke. “I have no time to waste on your petty games. I have more important matters to attend to.”
Onlookers began drifting to the pair at the table, their interests piqued by the development.
“Oh ho ho,” puffed Palmar, throwing his chest out in pride as he noticed his growing audience, “The great OriginalName. Too scared to test himself against me.”
The trash talk woke the crowd. “Do it, do it, do it, do it,” they changed in unison, volume increasing with each repetition.
“No, I need to get going. I’ll compete with you some other time. I don’t want –” OriginalName’s voice slowly grew into a shout as his paltry excuses were drowned out by the frenzied crowd, “ALRIGHT FINE. I’LL DO IT.”
With a satisfied smirk, Palmar unsheathed his dagger: almost a foot long and cruelly serrated, it was an instrument made for no other purpose than to taste blood. Palmar abruptly slammed his hand onto the table, silencing the crowd and causing OriginalName to jump in surprise.
Spreading his fingers, Palmar brought the dagger raining down into the hard wood between his thumb and index finger. “Five finger fillet!” he announced to the awestruck crowd, “First to four fingers loses.”
Pulling the dagger out of the wood, Palmar began his deadly dance. He struck with expert dexterity as his movements increased in speed, hand a veritable blur as he slammed the weapon into the wood time and time again; none hit flesh. Suddenly, he threw the dagger into the air, where it spun several times before sinking into the table in front of OriginalName with a thud.
“Your turn.”
OriginalName drew out the dagger and suddenly a change came over him. With the weapon in his hands, OriginalName seemed to calm, his breath steadying and his features relaxing. And when he began, it was evident to the crowd why.
Palmar had been fluid and graceful, but OriginalName was in a class of his own. He flipped his hands back and forth, sent the dagger spinning in arcs and circles, and even alternated hands, each spectacle drawing a surprised gasp from the crowd.
Finally, OriginalName drew to a halt, calmly handing the dagger to Palmar. The audience let out another shocked squeal as they studied the cut marks on the table; OriginalName had, while playing his deadly game, also drawn a picture of a bunny with his knife strokes.
BANG. A table flew across the room, narrowly missing Palmar’s head and crashing into the wall.
The crowd hushed as a newcomer pushed into the fold: seven feet of pure ripped muscle and a face chiseled from the finest marble. This face was now contorted in anger.
“BUNNIES? I HATE BUNNIES,” bellowed Curu, his very voice carrying with it the wrath of the Gods, “HOW DARE YOU RUIN MY TABLE WITH YOUR BUNNY YOU SISSY MAN SCUM.”
Curu reached forth two gigantic arms with lightning speed, gripping OriginalName on both sides of his head before he could so much as wince. Digging his fingers in, he ripped out both of OriginalName’s eyes right out of their sockets and...
CENSORED FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION
...as OriginalName finally succumbed to the sweet nothingness of death, he heard one final proclamation:
“Thanks for co-hosting World at War Mafia 2. Much appreciated. Punk bunny bitch.”
OriginalName the Mafia Godfather has been [censored, but suffice to say there was much blood and gore].
After an eventful day, night falls over the world... Credits go to Curu
Also note that the entire night post was purely flavour. There are no clues or hints in it. Palmar was arbitrarily chosen among those who voted for OriginalName to make a guest appearance.
On July 17 2011 12:25 Curu wrote: Also note that the entire night post was purely flavour. There are no clues or hints in it. Palmar was arbitrarily chosen among those who voted for OriginalName to make a guest appearance.
On July 13 2011 02:25 Nisani201 wrote: I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).
On July 13 2011 06:39 Nisani201 wrote:
Radfield - Appears to be full of contradictions and scumslips. They are forgivable but we should definitely keep an eye on him throughout Day 2.
GMarshal - Seems to be playing his standard leadership town role. I don't see a difference between his playstyle now and his playstyle from RTM so he seems innocent to me.
On July 13 2011 10:27 heist wrote: So nisani who do you think we should lynch?
Radfield or Kurumi.
On July 14 2011 02:04 Nisani201 wrote: OK, I've made my decision.
##Vote: Radfield
----------------
On July 17 2011 09:56 Kavdragon wrote: Look at this! The votes are so one sided that we will not only be killing an innocent, but we will be getting no information out of the lynch! Move to Radfield!
The defense of particulerly point 3 was very weak. He said it as he was hoping this would be a fairly chill game.
While he also wanted a vest this is pure meta on Rad due to his usual short lifespan.
D2
Uh has he done anything? I think Palmars img was quite apt and his willingness to give up his bat has made me think hes trying too get townie cred... Or its boobied.
All in all
##Vote Radfield
On July 17 2011 09:58 Kavdragon wrote: Syllogism, OriginalName had no support from anyone. This is an exact repeat of SNMM3. Vote radfield today
I like how any game where I can't die (vet, BP, etc) I get tunneled by mafia the whole game...
Yes you attempting a last minute switch from nisani/rad on day 1 has nothing to do with you being the last mafia. Should have switched to ON since that was the alternative wagon, oh wait
I must admit when I left yesterday I was not 100% sold on ON being scum. Kudos to Palmar. He was right. I am going to go see if GMarshal tried to save Nisani.
GMarshal had very little interaction in game with ON and Nisani. ON agreed with GMarshal's assessment of lurkers and GMarshal disagreed with Nisani's. That's about it. GMarshal also heavily defended Radfield day 1 yet Kav is pushing for him on day 2. GMarshal voted for Heist on day 1. It's hard to do a proper assessment because it is 2 different people with 2 different styles of play but I think the probability of Kav being the 3rd scum is about 50%. If it's not him it's Chezinu. His "bank" has admittedly done business with "mostly" scum. When questioned about how he knows "who shot who" his answer is a vague "people told me and I predicted it" One of the 2 is scum.
Jackal, look at day1. If Radfield wasn't scum, ON would vote for him instead of nisani, don't you think? ON saved his vote for very late in the day, he was unhappy with both options. Radfield the same, I tried to persuade him to vote for nisani many times through pm, but always got the answer that he thought he was town. Instead he tried to make a last minute wagon on you, for very poor reasons at that point. Come'on you are unhappy with nisani lynch and instead you try to random lynch jackal day1 as town? How much sense does that make?
I think night cycle can be shortened if all actions are submitted before the deadline. LSB will probably be hesitant with shortening the day cycle though.
If you guys want to PM me your actions as well I can make the day post as soon as all actions are received as long as LSB approves of shortening the cycle like this. Probably not applicable for this night but for future cycles could make things faster.
Radfield, even if you really have the role you claim, there's simply no way you are town this game. You played very suspicious day one for a townie with that role. You were begginng for a DT check / Vig shot. If you had this role as town, I'm 100% positive you would play it very differently. So either way, lying about your role or not you are still mafia.
On July 17 2011 23:36 Palmar wrote: Actually, here is an interesting idea.
Radfield claims PGO - veteran, but jackal now has his bat, so jackal has become the PGO.
That leaves Radfield as Veteran.
And Kavdragon claims to be a hitman contractor, he can hit people whenever he feels like it, even daytime, by spending 1.5 million.
You guys see where I'm going with this?
We pay Kavdragon tomorrow for shooting Radfield. Confirms both their claims!
Except that I don't care about what those claims are at all. Remember that mafia suposedly have a BP vest and a DT cloak. That means that rad would survive the shot either way, telling the truth or not.
On July 17 2011 23:28 sandroba wrote: Jackal, look at day1. If Radfield wasn't scum, ON would vote for him instead of nisani, don't you think? ON saved his vote for very late in the day, he was unhappy with both options. Radfield the same, I tried to persuade him to vote for nisani many times through pm, but always got the answer that he thought he was town. Instead he tried to make a last minute wagon on you, for very poor reasons at that point. Come'on you are unhappy with nisani lynch and instead you try to random lynch jackal day1 as town? How much sense does that make?
On July 17 2011 23:29 Radfield wrote: Why is heist not in your assessment?
Why don't you think I am the last mafia member?
I think it's because I have you stuck in my head as the SK. Sorry that is my "tunnelvision" shining through. I like Sandroba's assessment better than mine. Either way we have 2 anti-town players to kill. I believe that those two lie in the group of you, Chez and Kav.
GM/Kav would have had to fake claim hitman, which is a terrible (day 1 no less) fake claim as it's easily verifiable, because mafia/sk would have pooled their money and already killed a townie or two with it
Also there's no way scum has that kind of role in a 8 3 1 settings
On July 17 2011 23:37 sandroba wrote: Radfield, even if you really have the role you claim, there's simply no way you are town this game. You played very suspicious day one for a townie with that role. You were begginng for a DT check / Vig shot. If you had this role as town, I'm 100% positive you would play it very differently. So either way, lying about your role or not you are still mafia.
What happened Day 1:
I posted some funsy posts to start the game. Extrememly non-standard play for me, no matter if i'm mafia or town. Check my other games as mafia, I post very straight up.
Because of my poor posting, suspicion is thrown on me from several different angles.
I spend much of the day defending myself, culminating on me trying to straighten things out by asking for a grace period. It's extremely difficult to get reads on players when everyone is either defending you or attacking you. Your bias kicks in and it's difficult to remain objective, even if you realize the bias is there.
Despite this, I still become a lynch target based on super flimsy evidence.
Because of this I have become an obvious target for both dt's and vigis, possibly still medics simply based on who I am. I plan on claiming my role in thread to avoid anyone visiting me at night. Ask Palmar, as he is the one who dissuaded me from revealing my role in thread, even going so far as to call me stupid
As an aside, in PYPI, foolishness accused me of the same thing. "There's no way you would play the way you did if you were Bulletproof".
I try to play the same no matter my role: Red, Green, Blue or Vet. However, this game I played extremely different to start off the game. What does this mean? I'm red? I'm blue? Of course not, it simply means that I posted thinking this game was fundamentally different from other mafia games I have joined in the past. As it turns out, this is playing out very similar to a standard game, and is not fundamentally different in any way.
The only reason I joined this is I thought I could get by with low activity requirements. I dropped out of Closed Casket due to time constraints, and I disclaimered this game by saying I didn't intend on doing much combing of the thread.
Sandro, here are the reasons that you think I am scum:
* My role seems to unbalanced to believe. I agree with you here, and obviously I can't defend it. It's hardly an indictment of me though in a game such as this.
* My non-standard posting this game I've tried to address this above, and I hope you agree that this is a null-tell at best. My posting so far this game doesn't resemble any mafia game I have EVER played. Regardless of role.
* ON's behaviour during Day 1. Again, I see where you are coming from, but I think we need to break this down more.
First off, lets agree that lynching me Day 1, and having me flip green, would make every player on that train look very suspicious. Even more so, any player who early on defended me or stated they didn't want to lynch me, would look like an almost for sure mafia. Once Nisani flipped red later in the game, even more evidence would be piled up.
Originalname posted very early on that he thought lynching me Day 1 was a bad idea(just like you Sandro). He stated this long before Nisani ever because a clear target. Imagine what it would look like if he(or you) decided to change their mind and suddenly vote for me based on weak evidence.
So, when did OriginalName put down his vote on Nisani? There were 4 votes on each of Radfield and Nisani, but I had yet to vote, and GM had already indicated he wanted to save me. As such, there was no way that Nisani could be saved, even if OriginalName had switched his vote onto me. Once myself and GM voted, it would be 6-5 and Nisani still would have flipped red, except that now ON would be totally busted. As godfather, the one thing you don't want to do is mess with your voting habits.
I have more to say about GM's role during Day 1(not to mention Kav's role during Day 2), but I have no more time to spend on the comp.
We considered all that after day 1 and this initially lead us towards chaos13. In the end, however, there was little incentive for scum to bus in a 8 3 1 game, unless there were no viable townie candidates. There were no attempts made by the scum team to convince people to vote for you instead of Nisani, not even in private. Nisani put little to no effort into his defence; he didn't even bother fake claiming despite me specifically asking him to do so in private. I could go on, but it doesn't matter. Even if you miraculously don't flip scum RB, we'll still win, it will just take a day longer
Nope you got it wrong. The reasons I think you are scum are the following:
1) You decided to play "different" in the game you got that PGO role. That doesn't make sense as town. I know you and you play to win. You could have easely drawn a mafia shot night1 by posting your standart, but instead you do "different" shit and that would obviously lead to town suspicion. Also Idc who told you to not claim in the thread night 1. At that point, if you were town, you had no way of knowing for sure palmar wasn't mafia. Claiming that shit just to him when tons of suspicion were on you already makes no sense as town. If you had town's best interest in mind you would either drop your bat or claim in thread, neither of which you did. That's not even considering how stupid that role of yours is for a townie Radfield (apologies to lsb if I'm somehow wrong about this). Also your role and behaviour fits nicely with the items mafia suposedly has. You wanted a DT check to clear you: mafia has a DT cloak. You wanted to be shot to confirm you: mafia has a BP vest. I got rb'ed last night: you had a bat.
2) You have no info yet you blind trust palmar and give jackal your bat.
3) Your behaviour day1, as I explained in previous posts. In this game we could be at lylo day2. It's way worse for scum to lose an important player day1 than to suposedly look suspicous day2. ON saved his vote for very late into the day. He wasn't happy with either lynch, but he voted for nisani to save you. You also were not happy with nisani's lynch, you tryed to switch the lynch to jackal late in the day. I pm'ed you multiple times to convince you nisani was scum and you didn't want to lynch him anyway. Your reasoning for pushing the lynch to jackal at that point was terrible. Even if you weren't sure that nisani was scum you couldn't possibly be more sure that jackal was. You know that discussing a player to death day1, just to random switch to another player at the last minute is terrible for town. It produces no information and at that point, even if somehow you thought nisani wasn't scum, you know that last minute switch to jackal is a bad idea.
4) It's the easiest way to explain everything that happened so far in the game, for many reasons.
5) I got plenty more but I think this should be enough. =P
On July 18 2011 00:07 Radfield wrote: Because of this I have become an obvious target for both dt's and vigis, possibly still medics simply based on who I am. I plan on claiming my role in thread to avoid anyone visiting me at night. Ask Palmar, as he is the one who dissuaded me from revealing my role in thread, even going so far as to call me stupid
I said that you were not stupid enough to actually think that was a good idea. That's the thing, you're way smarter than the way you're playing. I've read pypi and I've seen you play in ccm, this thing is out of character for both your town and scum play.
Also, trying to play exactly the same as green as when you're red is stupid, it only works one way. You should always try to establish you're green, even if that means smashing your metagame for when you're scum.
Anyway, I think you're much better at town than you've showed us this game, and that's one of the big damning factors as to why I think you're scum.
On July 17 2011 23:19 Jackal58 wrote: GMarshal had very little interaction in game with ON and Nisani. ON agreed with GMarshal's assessment of lurkers and GMarshal disagreed with Nisani's. That's about it. GMarshal also heavily defended Radfield day 1 yet Kav is pushing for him on day 2. GMarshal voted for Heist on day 1. It's hard to do a proper assessment because it is 2 different people with 2 different styles of play but I think the probability of Kav being the 3rd scum is about 50%. If it's not him it's Chezinu. His "bank" has admittedly done business with "mostly" scum. When questioned about how he knows "who shot who" his answer is a vague "people told me and I predicted it" One of the 2 is scum.
That was the whole point! I lure the mafia in and then they make a mistake and bam! I got one lynched. Plus, like I said most of town didn't believe my role claim and it seemed only mafia did. The reason why mafia believed me is because they had their own vault! It's logical.
On July 18 2011 00:07 Radfield wrote: Because of this I have become an obvious target for both dt's and vigis, possibly still medics simply based on who I am. I plan on claiming my role in thread to avoid anyone visiting me at night. Ask Palmar, as he is the one who dissuaded me from revealing my role in thread, even going so far as to call me stupid
I said that you were not stupid enough to actually think that was a good idea. That's the thing, you're way smarter than the way you're playing. I've read pypi and I've seen you play in ccm, this thing is out of character for both your town and scum play.
Also, trying to play exactly the same as green as when you're red is stupid, it only works one way. You should always try to establish you're green, even if that means smashing your metagame for when you're scum.
Anyway, I think you're much better at town than you've showed us this game, and that's one of the big damning factors as to why I think you're scum.
I don't think you guys are actually reading what I'm saying anymore, but that's ok.
I said that you were not stupid enough to actually think that was a good idea. That's the thing, you're way smarter than the way you're playing. I've read pypi and I've seen you play in ccm, this thing is out of character for both your town and scum play.
Yet Sandro is trying to indict me partly on the basis that I didn't reveal my role. And you're here telling me that I was not stupid enough to think that revealing my role was a good idea...
Also, I agree that my play is "is out of character for both your town and scum play". I'm not sure if you're insinuating i'm the SK, but go browse PYP1, where I was the SK. I assure my play this game lines up with no game I have ever played. You guys seem to think it's because I'm scum, but it's actually just a symptom of the very little free time I have at the moment, and my desire to play a game with a bit more of a funsy spirit.
Anyway, I think you're much better at town than you've showed us this game, and that's one of the big damning factors as to why I think you're scum.
Again, I agree. You're seeing the right information(poor play), but drawing the wrong conclusion(scum). Partly my poor play is because of my inactivity, but partly it is due to me being a suspect since the beginning of day 1. I've spent most of my free time defending myself, instead of actually searching for suspects. The truth of it is, I actually suspected ON would flip green. That shows how non-existent my scum-hunting has been.
Sandro, I had a strong pro-town read on Palmar, and already intended(before he PMed me) to both
A) announce that I had a PGO item, and B) Trade that item to a pro-town player before the next night
I could have traded it during Day 1, but I felt that to announce my PGO-ness during day 1(either publicly or privately), while I was up for lynch would only complicate matters(which it would have).
When Palmar contacted me and asked me to trade it(under threat of death) I agreed, under the circumstance that he not reveal he had the Bat to any other player, no matter how much he trusted them. Instead, he changed his mind and asked me to trade it to Jackal, who he explained he was certain(100%) was town. I agreed.
Why won't anyone answer about heist? He has shown up on zero scum lists despite not being in the least confirmed.
On July 18 2011 01:33 syllogism wrote: So who do you think were the mafia and sk hits last night
I think the SK hit chaos to send a message and it was pre-planned way before the first lynch. If nisani wouldn't have gotten lynch he would have died instead of chaos.
Let me give you another hint to who the SK is:
A bank is neutral. A bank has protection. A bank can punish those who break a contract. A bank is pro-town. Mafia can't kill bank. Only town can kill bank. Therefore, bank is pro-town.
On July 18 2011 01:37 sandroba wrote: Yup, clearly palmar is scum and his plan is to join forces with town this game and get all his team lynched.
Why would he want you to rolecheck me tonight? That would only get you killed. He announced in to the whole thread. Mafia can and I know most likely read it.
On July 18 2011 01:41 sandroba wrote: who said I am dt. maybe I am just vt who knows.
A mafia told me. Remember, most members of my bank are mafia. Because they had a vault themselves and know it is believable. I have taken the words of Kavdragon to heart, "I must protect my potential members".
I would have claimed openly in the thread in a much clearer manner, but the last two games I was SK, I claimed openly day one saying I was pro-town. They killed me on the spot both times. To me it is illogical to side with mafia. It is much easier to be pro-town. Especially since I'm bulletproof.
If mafia try to kill me with a RPG, they don't further their objective. If town kills me, they only hinder theirs. I would love for you to dt check me, but I know from a source that it would get you killed.
Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
On July 18 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote: Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
My win condition was to kill all the competing banks... Are you sure? LSB never gave me a win condition except for killing the competition.
On July 18 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote: Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
On July 18 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote: Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
My win condition was to kill all the competing banks... Are you sure? LSB never gave me a win condition except for killing the competition.
That's what LSB said in a PM, could have been a mistake
On July 18 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote: Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
My win condition was to kill all the competing banks... Are you sure? LSB never gave me a win condition except for killing the competition.
That's what LSB said in a PM, could have been a mistake
On July 18 2011 01:59 Chezinu wrote: I thought town only competed with mafia. Hence the term "third party"
Nononono third party has always been its own faction and wins by surviving to the end of the game by killing everyone else. Hence the term "third party"
On July 18 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote: Actually the town win con in this game is to kill all non-town aligned players, according to LSB. We just didn't feel like lynching you since you were so open about being SK and we didn't think we could lose either way
Is this true?
Does SK have a win condition?
The win condition of the SK has always been to kill everyone else
Chezinu, I think you've mixed up the win condition of the Serial Killer role with that of the Survivor role. The Serial Killer wins by being the last one standing while the Survivor wins as long as he is still alive when any faction wins.
[This post in no way confirms nor denies anyone as the role of Serial Killer. Merely pointing something out to Chezinu.]
In order to shorten the game, tomorrow we will be moving to a majority lynch scenario. Once the majority of the players vote for a person that person will be lynched and the day will end
Yeah, I thought that we only had to kill mafia to win too, I pm'ed LSB about it and he told me otherwise. I asked him to add it to the OP, but I guess he never did. Those are not the standard rules for town to win as far as I know.
On July 18 2011 02:35 sandroba wrote: Yeah, I thought that we only had to kill mafia to win too, I pm'ed LSB about it and he told me otherwise. I asked him to add it to the OP, but I guess he never did. Those are not the standard rules for town to win as far as I know.
It's in the OP
Each group's primary win condition is to completely eliminate the competition.
On July 18 2011 11:15 Jackal58 wrote: I thought you knew everything?
##VOTE: Chezinu
I didn't predict a role that eliminated night actions.
Well, it seems the best thing for town to do at this point is kill me. Better now then have me around when there is only 4 town around and I'm rolechecked innocent. Yet still get lynched and the mafia win the game.
On July 18 2011 11:15 Jackal58 wrote: I thought you knew everything?
##VOTE: Chezinu
I didn't predict a role that eliminated night actions.
Well, it seems the best thing for town to do at this point is kill me. Better now then have me around when there is only 4 town around and I'm rolechecked innocent. Yet still get lynched and the mafia win the game.
its your lucky day dear sk/mafia.
Did scum take you up on your offer of alliance? If they did I wouldn't be averse to having you tell us who it is.
On July 18 2011 11:15 Jackal58 wrote: I thought you knew everything?
##VOTE: Chezinu
I didn't predict a role that eliminated night actions.
Well, it seems the best thing for town to do at this point is kill me. Better now then have me around when there is only 4 town around and I'm rolechecked innocent. Yet still get lynched and the mafia win the game.
its your lucky day dear sk/mafia.
Did scum take you up on your offer of alliance? If they did I wouldn't be averse to having you tell us who it is.
Seems they already know my true role. No pm from them.
Well.. my banking system did punish nisani.. it did catch intruder ON... Shall I initiate the self-destruction sequence? I always wanted to go out in a bang.. A big boom!! Though that has never happened before... never got that mad hatter role.. would have been nice to be able to kill that last mafiaso before i died.. too bad I didn't get rolechecked.. it was my ticket out of here.. if only there was a real time method to prove my innocence...
Here I go again.. waiting for my doom... Oh here I go again... with nothing else to lose... oh la la lalela There is nothing left but what is leet. nothing for me to give but what is leet. ooh la la lalela!!! This is the end! This is the end!11 LA LA LALELA!!!! What more could possibly do to me?!?!? Oh LA LA LALELA!!
PS to self: Never predict deaths again.. it will only get you killed. Don't reveal what you know, it will only get you killed!!! You can't exclaim how well you read.. You cannot shout the truth loudly!!! For if you do.. You doomed to the end!!! OH LA LA LALELA!! LA LA LELA!!
You shouldn't pretend to be something greater than what you really are... For the bluff shields only last for a while... They only last for a while.... OH OH LA LE DA DON'T YOU KNOW THE TRUTH!!!! You cannot go around telling people the truth... For who besides the mafia, would ever believe you... For two worlds you've made the same... the same old mistake!!!!!! You frighten the mafia... but you also scare the town!!!! OH OH LA LE DA!! What are you to dooo?!?!?!? Look what you made of what was given to you!!! Nothing but what is leet is left in your hands!!!
Look everyone!! The Bank never loses! The Bank is so loyal to its members that it is willing to die for them! Now that is nothing but love! You kill this bank and over night deaths of townies will still appear!
They just had to kill chaos night 1... I just had to be accurate with my identification of mafia members.. trying to paint me as the godfather.. well you failed.. the godfather is dead.. this time it is the sk... I thought it was harmless one.. but it turns out it isn't.. Palmar... this is all your doing... just like citi.zen... you have learned well... This time, however, I'm taking your own advice. After I'm dead town, kill Palmar.. that is the true killer. Tell me, princess.. how many fingers did you cut off of dead men's hands?
What is more of a killer? A bank defending it's loyal member? Or a Empress killing it's on workers? I die for my members while you kill your own. I've read what happened to your companions.. I read the bloody colors...
I wonder if you have any bloody contracts on you.. well, I can tell you that I can't make any bloody contracts with you. Even if you offered me my life along with my pinky with a fullfilled contract, I could not even sign it.. For my Kronos are too leet to bother to pay for such a contract.
When this is all over and you reflect on this day, remember... remember who you are.. and who I am... For though you think you can defeat me this day, I will forever live on.. I will be in the hearts of many. Those many will fight, yes, fight and stand for the very values that lay the foundations of the bank in order to preserve the treasure within! YOU WILL NEVER OBTAIN MY TREASURE!!! If you did, you will become like that of the robber, who stole my vault to his demise. For he died due to his lust for Kronos.. As Nisani died for his arrogant rebellion..
I'm sorry sir, but I can't allow you to kill our of you...no...our...MY employees. The CBS must stand and go on. I won't let anything happen to it in your absence.
On July 19 2011 00:30 Kavdragon wrote: ##Vote Chezinu
I'm sorry sir, but I can't allow you to kill our of you...no...our...MY employees. The CBS must stand and go on. I won't let anything happen to it in your absence.
On July 19 2011 01:24 Palmar wrote: you're such a troll chez.
I'm sorry. it would have worked if the mafia would have messaged me. I guess it is best that I die now to prevent further confusion. So long! Please forgive me.
The Bank Security System that detected roles. If you noticed, I predicted all the mafia members who go lynched in red. That was me just bluffing that I had abilities.
On July 19 2011 07:03 Curu wrote: Well I reeeeeeally need LSB to confirm something before I post it just in case I made a big boo-boo. You'll see why when the post actually comes.
The masses had had enough of the blubbering lunatic. “You are not a bank, you are a man!” roared Jackal58 as he slipped the noose tight around Chezinu’s neck, “You are man, but you shall die like a dog.”
As the crowd watched, the wooden floor beneath Chezinu suddenly fell away, dropping the man to his doom. The rope gave a soft twang as the slack stiffened, followed by a brutal crunch as Chezinu’s neck snapped with the force of his fall. He kicked once, feebly, catching Jackal58 square in the groin.
Jackal58 tumbled to the ground in pain, clutching his nether regions. As he fell, a small golden plaque slipped out of his pocket, rolling to the feet of sandroba.
sandroba picked it up and examined the engraving upon the plaque:
Jackal58 Graduated with Distinction from Scum University 2011
The crowd let out an audible gasp at the realization. Jackal58 was scum! They advanced as one, menacing, fierce, intent to hang the bastard.
It was then that a single rose petal fell across his cheek.
Glancing up, Jackal58 spotted his savior: the dashing Palmar!
Palmar ripped off his suit to reveal an embarrassingly feminine dress and the crowd gasped once again. Palmar was really a woman!
Palmar whistled for a horse, jumping expertly into the saddle as she offered Jackal58 a hand. “I care not for your past, my dear sweet honeyfingers,” she whispered to Jackal58, “Elope with me and forget your dreams of power. I will be everything you want. I will be everything you need.”
Smiling with tears in his eyes, Jackal58 accepted the hand, swinging into the saddle. “You will never catch us now! Me and my dear snugglemuffins will be together for eternity!” he declared as they galloped romantically into the sunset.
syllogism watched them slowly gallop away before turning his eyes to his green Ferrari. “Shall I fetch them back for you, Mayor?” he asked sandroba as he pulled the keys from his pocket. sandroba merely shook his head in bemusement.
And so it was the Town lived the rest of their days in peace and quiet, taking great pleasure in their worship of Curu. For Curu was awesome and wise and awesome.
As for Palmar and Jackal58? Well, they found their way to a cheap motel and
CENSORED OH GOD CENSORED THAT ISN’T EVEN SUPPOSED TO GO THERE OH WHAT ARE YOU DOING CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED
Chezinu the Serial Killer has been hanged.
Jackal58, Mafia Romeo, has eloped with Palmar, Town Juliette.
In case someone is curious, Palmar claimed he was a confirmed mason with Jackal so their role PM confirmed their alignments. I thought it was suspicious to have confirmed townies in this setup, let alone them being called masons as it's a PM game. It just didn't make sense for them to both be mafia so I had no reason to believe he was, in the end, lying.
On July 19 2011 08:25 syllogism wrote: and I thought it weird Palmar wasn't keeping Jackal up to date on things
Yup, jackal sent me a lot of pms today asking shit he was supposed to know already. Well at least palmar kept him in the dark =)
I knew everything. I just liked to play dumb. Kudos to Palmar his play was fucking brilliant. And a million apologies to Nisani and ON. I could do nothing to save you guys. But I never ratted either of you out. Suggestion LSB, NEVER MAKE A GAME WHERE SCUM CAN WIN WITH TOWN AGAIN!!!!!! That shit was hard.
This game also had an inevitable snowball effect due to traitors on both sides that could win with either team. Whoever got the early advantage would win most of the time.
Yeah, my impression was that it was very Town favoured.
They only had to knock out 2 of the Mafia and every single Townie had a power role. Not to mention they could transfer these abilities via items; imagine you managed to get the PGO bat, the DT checker thingy, and the medic kit all on one person. And as soon as he died you could testament them all to the next confirmed Town. Every Town was a power role but the Mafia didn't get anything overpowered to compensate, just the standard RB + Godfather. If they accidentally lynched Palmar too then Jackal would die, meaning a mislynch would end up benefiting Town more than Mafia.
sandroba's ability seemed pretty OP to me as well especially since he could use it at the start of the game. It's an interesting ability but I think it should take a lot more money to have work.
Interesting to note, had Jackal roleblocked sandroba again or sandroba not turned on the lights, Jackal would have attacked Kavdragon while Radfield simultaneously attacked Kavdragon with the SK weapon (why Chezinu gave it to Radfield I have no clue), resulting in Kavdragon, Jackal, and Palmar all dying.
Chezinu basically trolled the entire game, he gave all his money away except 1337 Chronos and gave away his weapon lol.
On July 19 2011 08:41 sandroba wrote: hmm yeah, but my role and radfield's role were way too OP imo.
If Radfield had been lynched day 1 you would have been shot night one. I guarantee it. Losing Nisani put me on a search for the SK. So we shot Chezinu. And yes I blew up Kurumi on purpose. I knew he was visiting GMarshal and the landmine only worked if you placed it between two people that interacted. At the point Nisani got lynched it was in my interest to find the SK and kill as many townies as possible. If Chez hadn't been the SK I would have RB'd and shot you tonight to either get the extra vote or take it out of the game. We RB'd you night one because we knew you could stop all night actions. Palmar was being protected and as long as the real SK was convinced I thought it was Radfield I was safe.This game could have gone a completely different direction.
On July 19 2011 08:25 syllogism wrote: and I thought it weird Palmar wasn't keeping Jackal up to date on things
Yup, jackal sent me a lot of pms today asking shit he was supposed to know already. Well at least palmar kept him in the dark =)
I knew everything. I just liked to play dumb. Kudos to Palmar his play was fucking brilliant. And a million apologies to Nisani and ON. I could do nothing to save you guys. But I never ratted either of you out. Suggestion LSB, NEVER MAKE A GAME WHERE SCUM CAN WIN WITH TOWN AGAIN!!!!!! That shit was hard.
Also Palmar I really have to commend you for not getting Jackal lynched. I have no idea what went on behind the scenes, but wow.
Nisani refusing to vote for him and him having the only confirmed mine in the game (and claiming it) and then getting Kurumi killed by a mine when Kurumi had told everyone who he was visiting should have pointed fingers to Jackal as scum as well. There was really no Town purpose in planting the mine on Kurumi unless he was suspected scum.
It's too bad Chezinu wasn't Town, he called all 3 Mafia lol.
It didn't really matter what Jackal did because him being mafia required a townie lying about his role claim, which we just weren't willing to accept. Remember, Palmar claimed his role pm confirmed Jackal as town. I've seen romeo/julia setups like this before but it just didn't cross my mind. At least I kept pointing out things I thought were strange to Palmar haha
@curu I got really suspicious of jackal after the lynch day1, but palmar told me they were both mansons, and in my mind they were either both mafia or both town, the later being far more likely, since mafia wouldn't tie toghether like that, especially with an sk on the loose. After ON got lynched and flipped mafia, that only further confirmed both.
Also, it was so frustrating talking to syllo and sand this game without being able to explain everything.
<syllogism> did jackal use his mine last night <Palmar> yes <syllogism> is that how kurumi died? <Palmar> he killed kurumi <syllogism> how <Palmar> Jackal knew kurumi said he'd bus ON and GM <syllogism> oh <Palmar> So he put it between himself and Kurumi, in case kurumi was lying <Palmar> turns out kurumi was lying, but as town <Palmar> which makes no sense <syllogism> god <syllogism> this game would be so much easier if townies always made sense and didnt lie <Palmar> yes <syllogism> but then chezinu's claim makes sense too
On July 19 2011 09:12 Palmar wrote: I just lied to town that kurumi had been lying.
Also, it was so frustrating talking to syllo and sand this game without being able to explain everything.
<syllogism> did jackal use his mine last night <Palmar> yes <syllogism> is that how kurumi died? <Palmar> he killed kurumi <syllogism> how <Palmar> Jackal knew kurumi said he'd bus ON and GM <syllogism> oh <Palmar> So he put it between himself and Kurumi, in case kurumi was lying <Palmar> turns out kurumi was lying, but as town <Palmar> which makes no sense <syllogism> god <syllogism> this game would be so much easier if townies always made sense and didnt lie <Palmar> yes <syllogism> but then chezinu's claim makes sense too
ROFL poor Kurumi.
So how'd you two find each other? Or did you know each other at the start from your role PM?
On July 19 2011 09:11 sandroba wrote: @curu I got really suspicious of jackal after the lynch day1, but palmar told me they were both mansons, and in my mind they were either both mafia or both town, the later being far more likely, since mafia wouldn't tie toghether like that, especially with an sk on the loose. After ON got lynched and flipped mafia, that only further confirmed both.
Well to be fair Palmar was more of a mason to my Manson.
Palmar you look horrid in a dress btw. But worse out of it. Put it back on dear.
On July 12 2011 22:18 Palmar wrote: Kurumi is probably scum cause he isn't trolling.
You're cute <3
Thanks, but my heart belongs to someone else.
On July 13 2011 01:49 Palmar wrote: I'm pretty sure LSB Banking can tell the identity of an object, but is unable to tell anything about the condition of that object.
If someone gives you a bulletproof vest, LSB will know it's a bulletproof vest, but is unable to tell if it's super powerful, broken, booby trapped etc. So you can't say to someone you're giving him a bulletproof vest, but really you're just giving him a gun, a flower, a book or a goddamn RPG.
Anyway, stop trying to find holes in the rules and go play mafia.
On July 13 2011 09:01 Palmar wrote: I think Sandroba is the most scummy player in town. Apparently he has developed a masterplan though that should break the game, should be interesting.
GMarshal is another one to look at, I don't like half of what he's done so far.
Anyway, I need to sleep. A thousand times goodnight.
On July 13 2011 22:48 Palmar wrote: It's lynching time.
On July 19 2011 09:17 sandroba wrote: They knew it from the start. Palmar was willing to lie to save jackal day2.
Nope. We were not informed of who our opposite number was. I suspected it was Palmar after his first post and knew it was Palmar after his second post but didn't PM him until about his 8th. The references to Shakespeare were to funny to let him stop.
I'm really surprised at you both. I never thought cross dressing was really Palmar's thing, nor thought that Jackal would be so into it. Not that there's anything wrong with that =O
Simply look for the regulations under "Regulations". Please confirm that you have read the regulations and your business is operating in line with those regulations.
Feel free to respond to this message with your confirmation.
Regards, Palmar
Original Message From Chezinu: May I ask what are regulations that my business must follow in order to honor your highness to the fullest?
Original Message From Palmar: I am the empress of this planet. I will not have you questioning my authority. I am a fair an just ruler, but I will hang you for the crows if you do not comply with my inquiry.
I ask that you both provide the required documents and acknowledge that you will pay the 10% corporate tax on all revenues from your operation.
Regards, Palmar
Original Message From Chezinu: May I ask who you are and by what authority you are asking for my regulatory documents?
Original Message From Palmar: Hello, that's excellent to know.
Now that we've established you're a financial institution, I assume you are aware that you must pay corporate tax on all revenues from your operation.
Also, I will be needing a document confirming you're following all regulations.
Original Message From Chezinu:
Original Message From Palmar: Hi.
This is a survey.
Please select the box that best describes your alignment. Send your results right back to yours truly.
I really, really wonder why Chez gave his weapon to Radfield.
SK was pretty strong in the setup, bulletproof + kills his target and anyone who visited his target. It's a shame he thought he was a Serially Killing Bulletproof Survivor lol.
On July 19 2011 08:25 syllogism wrote: and I thought it weird Palmar wasn't keeping Jackal up to date on things
Yup, jackal sent me a lot of pms today asking shit he was supposed to know already. Well at least palmar kept him in the dark =)
I knew everything. I just liked to play dumb. Kudos to Palmar his play was fucking brilliant. And a million apologies to Nisani and ON. I could do nothing to save you guys. But I never ratted either of you out. Suggestion LSB, NEVER MAKE A GAME WHERE SCUM CAN WIN WITH TOWN AGAIN!!!!!! That shit was hard.
Wow hahaha. Palmar you really were brilliant in how you handled the town. Would have loved to see what you would have done if I had DT checked jackal instead of chaos night one.
On July 19 2011 10:09 heist wrote: Wow hahaha. Palmar you really were brilliant in how you handled the town. Would have loved to see what you would have done if I had DT checked jackal instead of chaos night one.
wow. What a messed up ending. Do things make a little more sense now Sandro ?
I actually DID make a good call this game, and I should have read more into the fact that Nisani wouldn't switch his vote to Jackal with me on Day 1. Jackal, ON and Nisani were all on the ropes after Day 1.
The fact that Palmar talked about Jackal having the bat in thread should have tipped me off to something strange going on as well. However, the idea that a townie was lying to protect a mafia simply did not enter my mind.
Thanks for being Brown Chez. I'm not sure how you scored 7 points, but i'm sure you earned them!
On July 19 2011 08:44 sandroba wrote: This game also had an inevitable snowball effect due to traitors on both sides that could win with either team. Whoever got the early advantage would win most of the time.
Indeed, I anticipated that the traitor effect would be hard to work around and figured it would slightly balance out the imbaness of the SK.
But yeah, I won't ever have a "win with both sides" condition. It just snowballs the game
On July 19 2011 08:44 Curu wrote: Yeah, my impression was that it was very Town favoured.
Each of the mafia had extreamly overpowered roles that could completely change the course of the game if they passed them off. I expected them to simply mop up the town. The problem is that games don't always work like that and its more dependent on PM games and how well you get people to trust you. Town inherently has an advantage because they have more people and can PM more.
A solution I'm thinking of is that instead of having a "mafia" and a "town" have 3-4 different factions with equal amounts of players and have them duke out last man surviving style.
On July 19 2011 10:00 OriginalName wrote: Is it just me or have the merc games really tended to be really really short.
Hey! This is the longest Mini game I've run for a long time. I felt it lasted pretty long.
On July 19 2011 15:06 Radfield wrote: Thanks for hosting LSB and Curu, was really fun.
Hey LSB I'm by no means bashing on your setup, it was really cool indeed =). I just think that tonning down the roles a bit will make it far easier to balance. Anyway those roles were awesome and props to you for putting this toghether! Cheers.
On July 19 2011 08:44 sandroba wrote: This game also had an inevitable snowball effect due to traitors on both sides that could win with either team. Whoever got the early advantage would win most of the time.
Indeed, I anticipated that the traitor effect would be hard to work around and figured it would slightly balance out the imbaness of the SK.
But yeah, I won't ever have a "win with both sides" condition. It just snowballs the game
On July 19 2011 08:44 Curu wrote: Yeah, my impression was that it was very Town favoured.
Each of the mafia had extreamly overpowered roles that could completely change the course of the game if they passed them off. I expected them to simply mop up the town. The problem is that games don't always work like that and its more dependent on PM games and how well you get people to trust you. Town inherently has an advantage because they have more people and can PM more.
A solution I'm thinking of is that instead of having a "mafia" and a "town" have 3-4 different factions with equal amounts of players and have them duke out last man surviving style.
On July 19 2011 15:06 Radfield wrote: Thanks for hosting LSB and Curu, was really fun.
Glad you liked it!
I dunno if I'd call Mafia's roles overpowered. Jackal and Nisani were basically one role combined, which allowed them to give 2 booby trapped items to people. As soon as one of these booby trapped items sprung, however, it'd be easy to point them out as the ones that gave the item away.
ON was just a standard Godfather/Roleblock power. He also gave them the ability to pass around items instantaneously (but they didn't have any really useful items anyways besides the roleblock tape).
In between sandroba's ability, Radfield having vet and PGO at the same time, Kurumi having a bus, Chezinu being able to kill anyone who visited a target, chaos having the landmines, and Palmar being a medic able to protect himself as well, it would have been very hard for Mafia to be able to win unless they were able to force several mislynches.
Basically every Townie was a blue and the SK was bulletproof/could score multiple kills. I don't think Mafia had any overpowered roles, in fact the only active thing they had besides their kill was a roleblock. And a good half of the time, their kill would also get them killed or would fail.
We would have made a great bank. Especially with ON's vault. If only he submitted a descent logo in time. If only Nisani wasn't such a rebel.. If only Palmar was so against be that you sided with him..
From Chezinu's posting behavior I was under the impression that he was a Serial Killer whose win con was to gather a certain amount of money. That was the only way his actions made sense to me because he was basically outing himself as SK from the start.
To: Chezinu Banking CC: Chezinu CC: Attorney GMarshal
It has come to my attention that you have made an unauthorized use of my copyrighted work entitled LSB Banking Logo http://i.imgur.com/iMFVP.png (the "Work") in the preparation of a work derived therefrom.
I have reserved all rights in the Work, first published in July 12 2011 12:25 Your work http://i.imgur.com/sHTmE.png is essentially identical to the Work and clearly used the Work as its basis.
Examples and explanation of the identical work can be seen in the DMCA document. As you neither asked for nor paid to use the Work as the basis for your Work, nor to make or distribute copies, including electronic copies, of same, I believe you have willfully infringed my rights under 17 U.S.C. Section 101 et seq. and could be liable for statutory damages as high as $150,000 as set forth in Section 504(c)(2) therein.
I demand that you immediately cease the use and distribution of all infringing works derived from the Work, and all copies, including electronic copies, of same, that you deliver to me, if applicable, all unused, undistributed copies of same, or destroy such copies immediately and that you desist from this or any other infringement of my rights in the future.
If I have not received an affirmative response from you by three seconds from now indicating that you have fully complied with these requirements, otherwise I shall take further action against you.
On July 19 2011 22:57 sandroba wrote: Hey LSB I'm by no means bashing on your setup, it was really cool indeed =). I just think that tonning down the roles a bit will make it far easier to balance. Anyway those roles were awesome and props to you for putting this toghether! Cheers.
I like making fun roles! That's why my games are hard to balance. Usually I resort to using third party roles to act like some sort of balancing agent, but it sometimes doesn't work (for example this game)
On July 20 2011 14:55 Chezinu wrote: KavDragon, Your Fired!!! Oh, and your taking full responsibility for the logo.
Nice try. I never used the logo, therefore I never infringed on his copyright. Simply making it doesn't do the trick. You're stuck with that one Mr. Chezinu, it's all yours.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/oXuW1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iMFVP.png)
![[image loading]](http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/19810000/ngbbs4a84e832e25aa.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.glogster.com/media/4/24/58/84/24588458.gif)
![[image loading]](http://s3.hubimg.com/u/104414_f520.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://mail.is/palmar/hole.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sHTmE.png%5B/)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/96YIG.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sHTmE.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FdqAM.png)
