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Merc Mini 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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1 2 Next All
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 06 2011 04:47 GMT
#12
Read the other Merc Mafia and it looked really fun to play.

/in
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 11 2011 19:36 GMT
#55
Perfect timing as I just died in WaW though I might not be active tonight.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 12 2011 19:02 GMT
#141
In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.

Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:

1. standard issue butterfly knife
2. electro sapper

Am I close? What's up with the picture?
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 12 2011 20:03 GMT
#166
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote:
Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?

Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.


On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote:
1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch
2) I'm not defending Radfield

That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.


Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.

heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 12 2011 20:10 GMT
#173
Care to explain syllogism?
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 12 2011 20:35 GMT
#185
I can definitely give you the benefit of the doubt this early on radfield. I'm just really surprised that Sandroba can completely disregard everything you've done and now he's put you on his no lynch list.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 12 2011 20:46 GMT
#191
I was just going to say, despite that, I agree with Sandroba on Nisani as more likely scum although I'm assuming it's just based on this one post?

On July 13 2011 02:25 Nisani201 wrote:
I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).


Lurkers are not always town. You really shouldn't be making any statement that encourages people to lurk. He does seem eager to lynch someone with very little evidence. I am fully expecting to eat my own words right here because after all this is just one post, but I'm just pointing out that this post does not seem very pro-town at all.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 12 2011 20:50 GMT
#192
On July 13 2011 05:36 syllogism wrote:
I'm not surprised, I find it unlikely a good player would be so daring/careless as scum, especially in hist first few posts


It's a dangerous game you play when you assume scum won't do something. Scum will do whatever it takes to not seem like scum. If people think that scum won't be so outspoken/daring early on... that seems like the perfect thing for scum to do.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 13 2011 01:07 GMT
#220
Just one thing I thing I found curious.

On July 13 2011 05:40 OriginalName wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 05:24 sandroba wrote:
OK, players I refuse to lynch day1 this game are
myself =)
syllogism
radfield
gmarshal

Everyone else is fair game. I'm liking ON as scum, he's making bland posts and not commiting, while soft pushing me as scum.


Please provide evidence because im fairly sure i committed to lynching scummy lurkers over all else day 1 and im even more sure that you are just omgusing me because i decided to push you.

I agree mostly with that list overall though syllogism just hasnt done quite enough yet to warrent that spot.


You only question syllogism. What exactly has GMarshall done to warrant a spot?

heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 13 2011 01:27 GMT
#223
I'm guessing a lot of people are...

Well other than not trusting sandroba cycling through suspects at such a rapid rate, I think nisani is the most scummy player right now. His quick support for the lynch, his absolute statement that lurker lynches only result in town, and whenever I get the feeling that someone wants us to trust them, I get more than suspicious. His posting makes it seem as if he really cares about our opinion of him, something scum are much more worried about. He states that radfield is no longer the best lynch anymore, but doesn't say who he thinks we should lynch. He has no strong opinions other than his innocence.

So nisani who do you think we should lynch?
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 13 2011 02:42 GMT
#242
On July 13 2011 11:12 chaos13 wrote:
Sorry for my relative lack of activity guys, I've been busy with company all day. I'll be able to post more tomorrow.

First off:
heist, start thinking for yourself. To begin with, Kurumi makes a brief post about how syllo's posting isn't like his town play. With no evidence of how it compares or of how it is scummy, you hop along and agree with it
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 05:10 heist wrote:
Care to explain syllogism?


Now you're doing the same with nisani. Form your own opinions and explain them, or I will be forced to conclude that you are scum.

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 07:29 Radfield wrote:
Nisani, how is chaos13 playing protown? He's only made two posts....



I also have to support this. Either you're (correctly) getting a town read on me because you are genuinely analyzing my posts, or you are mafia attempting to gain town cred later on. I have to admit that two posts isn't anything to go on, whether you gain a town or a scum read. Step up your game as well.

Chezinu, why should I join your bank group?


I really didn't see Kurumi's post on syllogism. I was questioning why a townie would want to figure out blue roles. As for nisani, I'm following up on my other post stating my suspicions on nisani.

My strongest read of scum was on Sandroba who found Kurumi scummy for really no reason other than attacking radfield. Then he simply drops him to focus his suspicions on ON and nisani. he would be my number one suspect if not for that the fact that I agree with him on nisani.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 13 2011 19:55 GMT
#256
On July 14 2011 00:14 Nisani201 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 19:59 Kurumi wrote:
Sinani said Nisani is a bit experienced, newbie card should be non-existant.

Wrong, this is the second forum game that I've played. The only other Mafia games I've played besides this and RTM are SC2 Mafia games, which have a completely different atmosphere (you can try it if you want, last I checked it was pretty high up in the custom game rankings).


He incurs suspicion all game and then soft-excuses himself as being inexperienced. I find this far more suspicious than trying to make friends (trying to find almost-certain townies is almost as important as catching scum in this game. trust is the most important factor of this game) and noncommittal attitudes (especially if this is typical of their history). With everything else that has been lain out against nisani, I am sticking with my suspicions on nisani.

##Vote: nisani201
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 13 2011 23:02 GMT
#285
So addressing GM's post. Going in the same order, I'll explain my posts that are used as examples.

FIRST POST

With that statement I wanted to make clear that we should not be focusing on background lurkers but rather players with hopefully strong opinions with either contradictory behavior or clear signs of suspicion for a more informative lynch. At the time there was no one really on my radar except radfield but I was not entirely convinced. Later I tried to make my issue with Sandroba and nisani clear.

I can see the blue-fishing and I've got nothing say except that was not my intention and I was joking about the spy picture.

SECOND/THIRD POST

I'm restating my lack of conviction about radfield but at that time IMO no else had done anything to even warrant much suspicion other than radfield. Radfield was the most suspicious but not enough for me to commit to a lynch. My issue was not radfield vs lurker, bur rather radfield vs. kurumi. I was confronting sandroba on how kurumi could possibly be more scummy than radfield at that point in the game. The only reason why I list radfield's suspiciousness was to compare it to Kurumi's which was pretty nonexistent. At this point Sandroba is my main suspicion, not radfield.

FOURTH/FIFTH POST

I wanted to emphasize that this was in fact only one post. I felt there were too many weak claims flying around, and I wanted to caution people against taking one post into too much scrutiny. I meant for this to only be my initial impression of someone not acting pro-town. The lurker issue I would have not included but his absolute statement of "lurkers always end up being town" really bothered me even though we are both against lurker lynches. You talk about joining another bandwagon but I never supported the radfield's lynch. I never committed to his lynch based on so little, but nisani has no problem lynching. My initial impression of him was not good, but his subsequent posts solidified him as the scummiest player in my eyes.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 13 2011 23:17 GMT
#288
Sorry, would be more helpful if I included the original accusation to follow along.

On July 14 2011 05:27 GMarshal wrote:
Flying Under The Radar 101: heist

[image loading]


Heist, the hidden poster, the guy who's name you hear and you ask, "Is he even playing in this game?" Heist, the stealthy scum who intends to make it through the game by posting generic, content-less posts. You don't have to take my word for it, just look at his first post

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote:
In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.

Also Kurumi lemme guess your equipment:

1. standard issue butterfly knife
2. electro sapper

Am I close? What's up with the picture?


Part 1: "we should be lynching scummy players", well no freaking duh, that is the point of the game. But what scummy player does he point out? "Not necessarily rad". This comment sort of acknowledges that Rad is kind of suspicious, but in reality it doesn't commit to it. It also offers no idea of who is suspicious

Part 2: Let me pad my post with nonesense and sort of blue-fish. We've accused Rad of blue fishing, yet look at this really subtle attempt at figuring out what Kurumi is.

Look at this post.

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 05:35 heist wrote:
I can definitely give you the benefit of the doubt this early on radfield. I'm just really surprised that Sandroba can completely disregard everything you've done and now he's put you on his no lynch list.


Now look at this post

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 05:03 heist wrote:
On July 13 2011 03:56 sandroba wrote:
Hello everyone. I don't like the post above one bit. Lynching a lurker is about 27 times better than lynching rad day 1 and you say you are not sure, but he seems like a good lynch? Huh? How does that make any sense?

Also kurumi is suspicious for being a try hard, but saying nothing useful. Nisani for the above post AND for suporting kurumi.


On July 13 2011 04:35 sandroba wrote:
1) I'm not advocating a lurker lynch
2) I'm not defending Radfield

That said he does not strike me as scummy and I would rather we pressure really scummy people like kurumi and nisani.


Sandroba I don't see in any way how Kurumi is more scummy at this point than Radfield based on actions alone. On the contrary, Kurumi is pointing out what exactly makes Radfield our leading suspect (although the BP contradiction is quite bs). role-fishing is one of the scummiest things to do. Isn't it a bit suspicious that radfield folds on his trap after one line of inquiry? That said, is he super-scummy? No but I like his chances at flipping red more than a lurker's.


He's willing to give Rad "the benefit of the doubt" yet he thinks he is scummier than a random lurker. Heist even points out all these super scummy actions "rolefishing, dropping the trap, the BP contradiction" . yet despite beleiving all the scummy actions and providing no reason why they might NOT be scum oriented he still "gives him the benefit of the doubt". What a genuine lack of commitment, he thinks rad is suspicious but isn't willing to commit to it seriously. This is the sign of a faltering scum, one who either doesn't want to risk busing a buddy or one who wants to avoid having green blood on their hands. Having null read is acceptable, what is *not* acceptable is listing why this guy is more likely to be scum than a lurker (a soft red read) and then just handwaving it away.

I once again invite us to compare two separate posts
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 05:46 heist wrote:
I was just going to say, despite that, I agree with Sandroba on Nisani as more likely scum although I'm assuming it's just based on this one post?

On July 13 2011 02:25 Nisani201 wrote:
I also am not sure about Radfield... however he seems like a good lynch to me. Unless a better lynch pops up then we probably should stay on him. A lurker lynch is not a good idea because they always end up being town, and every Townie matters when we're in a quantity battles with the Mafia in the later game (as Kurumi so nicely pointed out earlier in the thread).


Lurkers are not always town. You really shouldn't be making any statement that encourages people to lurk. He does seem eager to lynch someone with very little evidence. I am fully expecting to eat my own words right here because after all this is just one post, but I'm just pointing out that this post does not seem very pro-town at all.


Show nested quote +
On July 13 2011 04:02 heist wrote:
In a game this small I think we have to lynch someone suspicious, not necessarily rad. Lynching a lurker will give us very little information to work on and the lurker still has a good chance of flipping town.


Heist claims to be against the lurker lynch, preferring to lynch "someone suspicious" yet when someone tries to do EXACTLY THAT, they are "Eager to lynch someone with little evidence" and "not very pro-town at all". To me this is
1.) a serious contradiction in thoughts and attitude
2.) throwing his support lightly behind another bandwagon. In particular note words and phrases like "seems" "ready to eat my own words" "I'm just pointing out". These all suggest someone who wants to start and support a wagon without being held responsible for it later, when green blood is dripping from the gallows.

then there is this little jem. Can we say "spreading doubt" all together now? Without a real FoS or anything near that he tries to get the ball rolling, cast a little suspicion and doubt. Now the question *is* legitimate, but the way its asked suggests a level of attempted detachment. It wouldn't be nearly as suspicious if it were more pointed "what has GMarshal done anyway, he only has like 3 posts" would have been fine. The way he asks it seeks to throw doubt while avoiding a heads up confrontation.

Finally he has a post where he says he is "most suspicious of sandroba" but that he won't vote for him or make a case against him because "he agrees about nisani201". Heads up, if you think someone is scum, then following their lead is usually a short road to death and the slaughter of the town. What townie is going to say "yep I'm 100% sure GM is mafia, but hey he said to lynch heist, and the case is moderately convincing, so I'mma going to go with heist, k?" That is a behavioral contradiction that worries me more than anything else. It indicates un-town like disregard for who the lynch target is, and unwillingness to push your lead suspect.

I'm really, really suspicious of heist, and I am convinced he is probably scum.

Now heist, care to explain your actions and your contradictions? Or would you like a fine noose around your neck?



So addressing GM's post. Going in the same order, I'll explain my posts that are used as examples.

FIRST POST

With that statement I wanted to make clear that we should not be focusing on background lurkers but rather players with hopefully strong opinions with either contradictory behavior or clear signs of suspicion for a more informative lynch. At the time there was no one really on my radar except radfield but I was not entirely convinced. Later I tried to make my issue with Sandroba and nisani clear.

I can see the blue-fishing and I've got nothing say except that was not my intention and I was joking about the spy picture.

SECOND/THIRD POST

I'm restating my lack of conviction about radfield but at that time IMO no else had done anything to even warrant much suspicion other than radfield. Radfield was the most suspicious but not enough for me to commit to a lynch. My issue was not radfield vs lurker, bur rather radfield vs. kurumi. I was confronting sandroba on how kurumi could possibly be more scummy than radfield at that point in the game. The only reason why I list radfield's suspiciousness was to compare it to Kurumi's which was pretty nonexistent. At this point Sandroba is my main suspicion, not radfield.

FOURTH/FIFTH POST

I wanted to emphasize that this was in fact only one post. I felt there were too many weak claims flying around, and I wanted to caution people against taking one post into too much scrutiny. I meant for this to only be my initial impression of someone not acting pro-town. The lurker issue I would have not included but his absolute statement of "lurkers always end up being town" really bothered me even though we are both against lurker lynches. You talk about joining another bandwagon but I never supported the radfield's lynch. I never committed to his lynch based on so little, but nisani has no problem lynching. My initial impression of him was not good, but his subsequent posts solidified him as the scummiest player in my eyes.

heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 14 2011 02:09 GMT
#308
radfield, I just don't think that's enough evidence. For now I'm taking it on his word that he is very busy and thus his lack of much contribution outside of PM land. He did admittedly say that the choice was between you and nisani and with his low activity it might appear to be bandwaggoning in the wrong eyes. That said, your argument about his contradiction will hold more weight if nisani flips scum especially because he doesn't follow through with what he said.

nisani didn't start playing in CCM until the pressure was on him hard. He started out looking scummy in that game as well. I think he's worth another day to look at. And ya I mean his posts so far have looked scummy. If he doesn't improve in the next few hours he will most likely get my vote.


So either radfield became more scummier in his eyes or nisani improved. Nisani certainly did not improve as town in my eyes, but everyone has their own opinions. And perhaps the SK angle was enough though personally there's someone else I believe is a far more obvious SK over you.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 14 2011 02:21 GMT
#315
YESSS! Congratulations all around.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 15 2011 03:16 GMT
#411
So I am assuming the SK killed chaos and mafia hit Kurumi.
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 15 2011 03:34 GMT
#416
Can you share what exactly happened in the night for you? How are you so sure of what went down?
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 15 2011 04:07 GMT
#418
Also jackal did you by chance plant a mine on kurumi?
heist
Profile Joined April 2011
United States720 Posts
July 15 2011 19:58 GMT
#513
So how exactly did a mysterious BPV get inside your vault?

You claim no one else had access to your vault other than nisani and yourself. You did not start with a BPV. So nisani just secretly slipped you an extra BPV with no mention of it?

And essentially you paid 500k for the cloak and nisani just gives the money back to you when he's about to die?

Why give you anything at all and not his scum teammates in a testament unless you are scum when it's looking as if he's about to die?

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