Real Time Mafia

On June 26 2011 19:25 DropBear wrote:

Compulsive Vigilante reporting in!

On June 28 2011 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
@GM

At any rate, 201 is correct, Palmar DID /out before the game started. He'll either be Mod-killed or replaced before Day 2, I totally forgot.

Aside from adding LSB to the vet list, which Wiggles already suggested, I have no problems with your list. :D

NOW

What do we do with it? We've pretty much unanimously decided that blues will be acting on their own with VERY limited guidance from the rest of town. Should we just go down the list and start asking people their opinions on each one? Or is that just something to look at once people start dying?

On June 28 2011 15:33 sandroba wrote:
@GM Okay, now you are just being silly. Considering this setup you know mafia won't lurk, because lurkers are at an extreme dissavantage regarding everything. If new mafia players lurk, I'm all fine and dandy with it, since our DTs can quickly confirm/nail them. They are unlikely to be chosen GF AND if I read the op correctly only one GF is possible this game.
Despite me saying VIGS DO NOT SHOOT LURKERS UNTIL IT BECOMES A PROBLEM I'm sure people will do it and I guarantee you they will all flip town. Do not ecourage them. You are border line pushing mafia objetives now.

On June 28 2011 21:35 aprudds wrote:
Just woke up, read through the thread and have a bad flu so I apologize in advance if my posts are a bit less coherent.

Ok GM, although your plan of shooting lurkers without discrimination has it's pros of eliminating useless townies and forcing scum to contribute more I think your being too hasty and only mention the scenario that townies and scum will be on the lurker lists.

Ever consider the possibility that a blue might be lurking to try and keep their head down?

If your theory of scum wanting lurkers to stay alive is true, wouldn't that be the perfect place for blues to hide?

For that reason I am against your plan of not checking and blindly shooting into the lurker list.

On June 28 2011 21:35 DropBear wrote:

Being on the lurker list gives you double the chance to be dt checked, plus double the chance of being vigi'd. What sort of Mafia is going to be stupid enough to be on it? They are already forced to come out into the open. Anyone who IS on the lurker list is in fact MORE likely to be town.

On June 29 2011 01:41 Navillus wrote:
Hi people, soooo the voting on sinani seems really silly, first off it was declared "let's bandwagon this" which as I understand it is not the town's goal, also this whole thing was started with the apparently 'scummy' opinion that strong leaders are bad, which I totally agree with. If one leader gets too much power/influence and they're either scum or just wrong one too many times then the entire town is screwed by it, town should work as smaller groups and not let 1 person direct the entire agenda. Frankly the attacks on sinani are pretty scummy they put words into his mouth talking about how he wanted to kill leaders and lurkers which 1. they say is contradictory though it isn't (we want people to be between those two, extremes are bad) and 2. He never says that he wants to kill leaders or even that everyone should watch them just that he has personal suspicions of them.

On June 29 2011 03:18 DropBear wrote:



First on sinani, you say he has a history about fake contributing as a mafia to blend in. Where are his real contributions this game that distinguish him from this game you mentioned?

Jackal has made a grand total of ONE post so far. How can you possibly make a behaviour call based on a single post? It's way too early to do that. You scare me Mr Mig!

---

aprudds please reconsider your vote on TAA. He is being very overenthusiastic yes but there's very low chance he's mafia. He's prodding everyone he thinks is dodgy and is going out of his way to generate discussion.

On June 29 2011 03:55 Kenpachi wrote:
sorry im at my friend's house. I'll go read the thread once i get home.

BTW, im Kenpachi and Im a Townie.

On June 29 2011 04:20 GMarshal wrote:


1.) I am NOT advocating lynching Hiro, just pressuring him. Please don't misrepresent me.
2.) DON'T POST GREEN READS. It only makes them mafia targets and helps us not at all
3.) Please limit your scum list to two people in the interest of concentrating your (and our) focus
4.) 'm not derailing your sinani206 lynch, the case against him ("I don't like leaders") seems to be extremely weak, and it does *not* merit a lynch. If you had a decent case, then you could argue about me derailing your wagon, but I fail to see what distinguishes sinani206 from his clone and a bunch of other posters.

On June 29 2011 04:43 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Who's your number 1 scum read right now?
Who do you think needs to contribute more to town (Either in terms of activity or content)?

On June 29 2011 04:50 syllogism wrote:
Even assuming GM is red, it's fairly unlikely he felt threatened enough to ask his scum team to intervene. There is over 30 hours until lynch and he had one or two votes on him. It's just silly to attempt to find such connections on day 1 and this early.

On June 29 2011 00:12 syllogism wrote:
Oh okay so the one who has actually posted something of substance is the suspicious one. The one who has given the new and different format some thought rather than post worthless lists and copy pasted "how town should play" guides. Perfect.

My plan for lynch was going to be lynching someone who has posted a lot to avoid being on the lurker list without contributing anything, but unfortunately some players feel the need to post their every single thought, including the fact this is a decent idea if there are no better alternatives present. I even hinted that Dropbear should stop alluding to this plan as it relies on players not actually being aware of it, but he still made another reference.

On June 29 2011 05:33 chaos13 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing Vain contribute some more. So far you have made very few posts, and only 2 of those were actually discussing players. The rest were directed towards RoL or some other topic. Right now you're looking to me like a mafia who is trying to avoid the lurker list, but being careful not to contribute much. The only thing of note you have done is defending theAwesomeAll.
What do you think of syllogism and sinani206?

On June 29 2011 06:04 Vain wrote:
Hmm, could use some better formatting. Mind that when i wrote this, i wasn't even accused by chaos13 and decided to wait a bit longer for more information. I really think this is our best bet right now and to put my money where my mouth is i will put my vote on him until someone MAYORLY slips up in my point of view.




Could be but i'm not just throwing away all my conclusions just because he played like this in PTP. My conclusion was he is scum and i stick to it

On June 29 2011 06:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I'd like to ask everyone to read through the entirety of the thread before they start posting, especially if what they have to say is only relevant to a past discussion. This will stop people bringing up things that the rest of town has mostly stopped talking about, and restarting a useless discussion. If you want to see an example of that, look at PTP, where I brought up Sandroba's "plan" later on in Day 1, and caused a several hours long shit storm as mafia. Let bad plans and old discussion lie, unless you have a pressing or relevant reason for bringing it up again, or have something completely new to add. Anything else is just derailing discussion. (As a note, if someone brings up a bad plan you made in an analysis, don't start endlessly discussing the merits of the plan again, or I will personally end you :p)

For example, if I hadn't read further into the thread after Palmar's posts, I wouldn't have seen what YM said, and would have begun waging a bloody crusade against him. Stuff like this is important to see, and I personally don't think you should be trying to make analysis or contribute without all the information available to you, and without knowing what's been addressed or not already.

On June 29 2011 12:46 Kenpachi wrote:
dude Palmar why would he ask that question if he was red? Mafia decides the kill together so why would actions need to be sent in advance for them?

On June 29 2011 13:06 Varpulis wrote:

I don't suppose that you have proof? I don't recall bringing up outside of game evidence. Asking questions in the thread is inside the game evidence. Posting about the setup, roles, and mechanics during the game is inside the game evidence. His meta is not, but that isn't my main point. I even admitted that it's WifoM.

On June 29 2011 13:33 youngminii wrote:

Gonna say it again.
It wasn't helpful.
It was a whole bunch of WIFOM.
Mafia like making a huge post that looks helpful to gain town cred.

Seriously, can you actually re-read it please?

On June 29 2011 13:31 Varpulis wrote:

Bloody hell, you just don't stop, do you? Could you actually go read that big post about mechanics, and honestly tell me if you, as a mafia member, would post that just to gain town cred?

I'll wager that I've read through syllogism's posts more than you have. I have concluded that he is town from those posts. Frankly, in my opinion it is wise to be patient in the early part of the game. Most analyses are weak, and most bandwagons terrible. Cautious != scummy, not in the first 24 hours. You also wave off all of his contributions to the discussion as blanket statements, thus invalidating any possible defense. It's enough for pressure, which is what I assumed it was, but not sufficient reason to lynch. There, I responded to your request to look through his posts "analysis."

Now let's look through your posting history shall we? What do we find? A bunch of blanket statements about lurkers and lurking blues, meta (regarding sinani and DropBear), and then a lot of tunneling.

Stop being a hypocrite please.

On June 29 2011 00:21 TheAwesomeAll wrote:

if GM is scum, he is GF. Please dont check him.

On June 28 2011 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote:
What do we do with it? We've pretty much unanimously decided that blues will be acting on their own with VERY limited guidance from the rest of town. Should we just go down the list and start asking people their opinions on each one? Or is that just something to look at once people start dying?

On June 28 2011 15:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
I go to do research to answer GM's question and I come back to this?!?! Real Time is going to be INSANITY.

On June 28 2011 16:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
@Sandroba

GM fully admits to subscribing to a controversial stance that he'll catch flack for. Don't you think he'd be toning it down a bit on the lurker-hunt if he were scum?

On June 29 2011 01:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Only 4 pages in 8 hours...not bad guys, but it seems we're caught up in a lot of mudslinging and tunneling, something I thought we as a town vowed not to do d1.

Yes, we have to find a lynch target for today...but come on guys. Bring a case with SUBSTANCE.

I know, I haven't done much in the way of scumhunting yet. You don't have to remind me. I'm working on a case as we speak. Just letting you know I'm awake and reading.

On June 29 2011 08:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
It appears the main topic of discussion here is Dazek vs. Syllogism. In the name of keeping discussion down to a few candidates, I'm going to go ahead and read back through these two individuals' posts. Stay tuned!

On June 29 2011 09:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
I fail to see how you flipping green will prove ANYTHING about GM. You could just as easily be wrong about GM. However, if you flip RED, it's unlikely that GM is town...but I wouldn't lynch him based on that alone.

Dealing in absolutes is very scummy to me. Just sayin.

Back to reading. -.-

On June 29 2011 20:07 DropBear wrote:

Palmar, TAA can't have found a mafia.



Is it really likely that he would have got a result back yet? I don't think so.

---

The Drazerk bandwagon has formed with a speed I've never seen before. It scares me that he now has 12 votes and the next highest is 2. There has been absolutely zero opposition to it. Does this ring alarm bells for anybody else?

On June 29 2011 21:56 Hyaach wrote:
I don't know about Drazerk. As people point out, the bandwagon against him is forming at quite an amazing speed.
Him hugging GM was bad, but it just seems like gullible townie taking a huge leap of faith on the first ray of light.
TAA tunnelling him was a disadvantage to drazerk as we all know TAA's alignment now.
But TAA started off drilling at GM. I think he just associated everyone that defended GM with him together.

FoS GM Hiro and VisceraEyes
GM soft defended hiro and quickly back off like TAA mentioned earlier. i find it wierd for someone as outspoken as him, maintains a neutral ground like his. He asked TAA to for opinions on hiro but never gave his own. In fact he has ask people for opinions and then post out his own after people gave theirs. Why be so passive if you want to take a leadership position?


If you think drazerks is posting fluff. take a look at hiro's post. Its worst. All they say are "hi i'm here, too scared to take a stance" He has never post an analysis on anyone that is worth something but always comes onto the bandwagon after a few players voted.



blanket statements everywhere. Covering both side of the spectrum so he can always fall back if shit blows up.

still waiting for the analysis too VisceraEyes

so i'm gonna ##Vote hiro protagonist

On June 29 2011 23:04 aprudds wrote:
Can we stop FOSing 10 different targets and focus on one or two now? I'm getting completely lost at this point, especially after the kill on TAA.

On June 29 2011 23:24 DropBear wrote:

I do not understand what you mean? Presentation? Chilling?

I want to lynch Henry VI.
I think GMarshal and Eiii are scum.
I think the bandwagon on Drazerk is dodgy as hell and I'm very suspicious of the first handful on it, other than Cthsazsa.
I agree with you that Viscera is playing oddly and I would like him to explain himself.
I do not like hiro and syllogism as lynches.

Is that better?

On June 29 2011 23:56 chaos13 wrote:
Very good post, Palmar. If you're looking for me to be more aggressive, I start out Day 1 really confused and focus on getting town reads rather than scum reads. By Day 2 and 3 I have a much better idea of what to work with and I get more aggressive as the game goes on.

With that said, I will be voting to lynch either Drazerk or VisceraEyes. At this particular moment I am leaning more towards Viscera. I will make my choice between the two within a few hours.

On June 30 2011 01:31 Navillus wrote:
I'd just like to say that I really don't like a case on one person (GM) based on the actions of another (Eiii) I think it makes way too big assumptions and opens us up to scum purposely pretending to be tight with townies, like I think that Drazerk was doing. This especially because, while I don't know the meta here that well, it seems to me that GM would be the best or one of the best people on the scum team and so would tell everyone else to stay away from him because they would be much more likely to slip than he would.

On June 30 2011 01:59 Jackal58 wrote:

TAA also had his vote on GM. There are also a few people voting for Drazerk that I am getting some scummy vibes from. I am not calling him town for that reason or for any other I would just prefer to wait a while yet before I vote for anybody.

On June 30 2011 02:38 chaos13 wrote:
youngminii, you say that you don't feel you should lynch Drazerk, and yet you're voting him anyway....based on the possibility that TAA checked him? We have no idea who TAA checked, or if he checked anyone at all. Remember - analysis, not assumption.

I highly suggest a vigi hit on this guy. If you're still alive tomorrow I'll be voting for you. You're scum trying to deflect a lynch away from your mafioso friend VisceraEyes (who still hasn't contributed his analysis)

VisceraEyes and youngminii are scum.

If you guys lynch Drazek and he flips green I'm gonna facepalm so hard I'll probably concuss myself. If that happens, vig Viscera and youngminii, cause they're scum.

On June 30 2011 02:50 VisceraEyes wrote:
While I'm not in the business of defending myself TYPICALLY, I will say that I was replaced into CCM, which Palmar will most assuredly confirm, has been taking up A LOT of my focus. As I said, it's not a good excuse and is entirely my fault...but it is what it is. Those guys are beast (excluding Palmar )

The case on Draz was in my own words and done in isolation from others' posts. If it falls in line with others' points against Draz, maybe consider that there's a reason for that. Use your head.

On June 30 2011 02:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Cue Palmar tunnel. Every game I play with you is the same.

*sigh*

On June 30 2011 03:01 youngminii wrote:

fuck yeah you are the towniest motherfucker in this entire thread
hi5

palmar i wish you'd just stick to one guy, other than that i've enjoyed your more recent posts

let me ask you this
if we lynch visceraeyes and he flips red, what information do we gain? am i suddenly scum because chaos13 linked us together? i hardly think so
if we lynch drazerk and he flips red, dear god we have a ton of information, syllo is under fire, gm is under fire, lots of the people that are on the viscera train are under fire

then again, based on recent games they're both probably non-red lawlawlawl

remember: lynching based on analysis on day 1 is relatively difficult and pretty luck based, i'm a lot more comfortable following a possible dt check

On June 30 2011 04:31 Mig wrote:
I really would urge people to switch from draz onto Visc.

Draz's martyr post I still think is suspicious but there is at least some chance I could be wrong and he is just a desperate townie trying to convince us of his innocence.

I think there is a much much higher chance that Visc is mafia. I know meta isn't everything but looking through Visc's posts it is amazing how different he is. Visc not taking stands and randomly accusing people is like dropbear not making millions of useless pbp analysis or kenpachi actually contributing, it is a 180 degree shift in play. I really can't emphasis this point strongly enough.

And not only is it a change in play, but it is a shift that would greatly hurt town. There is no reason for him as town to decide to just stop contributing and giving his opinions on people when that is his norm. It is much more likely for him to play this way as mafia.

On June 30 2011 04:48 sinani206 wrote:
I voted for VE because he promised analysis and didn't deliver, and when he did, it wasn't as good as he hyped it up to be. He probably took like 10 minutes to write that. I acknowledge that I haven't found anyone outstandingly scummy to do an analysis of. What do you want me to do, apologize?

On June 30 2011 05:14 Varpulis wrote:
First things first: Palmar, stop calling yourself the brother protector and guide of the town, please. The more you try to call for authority the more suspicious i get. That said, I agree with your big post about how to play (win), and your lists.

On June 30 2011 05:18 ~OpZ~ wrote:

...VIGILANTES, need to NOT be shooting. Omg. Town killing itself if exactly what the mafia wants. Compulsive vig should be discussed a little. But now is not the time for that. Night phase, or the day he starts being able to shoot.

On June 30 2011 05:28 Cthsazsa wrote:

Palmar are you 100% sure that ViscEyes might be scum?

On June 30 2011 07:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Secondly, Palmar appears to be pushing my lynch based on A) my inactivity in this game and B) my lack of tunneling him incessantly. The inactivity bit I can understand - my meta shows that I'm far more active as town than this game shows. But come on Palmar. You think I'm scummy when I tunnel you. You think I'm scummy when I don't. You like to say that part of my meta is that I tunnel you, but you know what this reeks of? YOU tunneling ME. You did it in PTP, you did it in CCM, you're doing it this game. I don't recall tunneling you in PTP. You know why? Because in PTP I didn't find you all-together scummy. Know why I'm not tunneling you this game? Because I don't find you all-together scummy. Get with the program sir.

Palmar, give a bro a chance, bro. ##Fistpound?

On June 30 2011 08:13 Jackal58 wrote:
Since we are now inside the "No Shoot" window I'll share my thoughts.
The people I see as scum right now:
Cthsazsa
Lanaia
youngminii
hiro protagonist
Mig
Palmar
sinani206

All of them with the exception of Palmar and to some extent Sinani have been less than active and what little they have posted has either made me a bit uncomfy or just plain set off some bells.
Until Sinani began to defend himself he was on the list of say little without saying anything club.
Palmar you're just trying to fucking hard to be town.

On June 30 2011 08:18 sandroba wrote:
Fuckballs, sinani's analysis on his alter ego is actually quite decent. O.O

On June 30 2011 07:22 Lanaia wrote:


Palmar, I'd tone down on that a little bit. Just in case, you know? It's something that shouldn't be declared so loudly in a game. Just like the last game I played with Kenpachi and he called himself a faithful bodybag which made me feel he was scum (both BGs had died).

On June 30 2011 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
*slowclap* Congratulations Palmar, you've successfully led a lynch of a townie. Your leadership skills are....astounding.

Oh, I guess before I die I should go ahead and claim.

I am a Detective, and I've had a guilty on Draz since I posted my analysis. I'm sorry that I had to come out like this, but you guys are about to make the biggest mistake of the game and I figured something had to be done.

For the record, this is why I've been inactive. This is literally the FIRST time I've been given a meaningful power-role that didn't involve dying, so I didn't want to fuck it up. And with the blue-sniping of XLII, I was scared SHITLESS to post. But I can assure you, Drazerk is guilty, and HE should be hanging today, not me.

On June 30 2011 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
*slowclap* Congratulations Palmar, you've successfully led a lynch of a townie. Your leadership skills are....astounding.

Oh, I guess before I die I should go ahead and claim.

I am a Detective, and I've had a guilty on Draz since I posted my analysis. I'm sorry that I had to come out like this, but you guys are about to make the biggest mistake of the game and I figured something had to be done.

For the record, this is why I've been inactive. This is literally the FIRST time I've been given a meaningful power-role that didn't involve dying, so I didn't want to fuck it up. And with the blue-sniping of XLII, I was scared SHITLESS to post. But I can assure you, Drazerk is guilty, and HE should be hanging today, not me.

On June 30 2011 10:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
@E3
I waited to see if I could convince you, and we're now in the no-shoot-zone. I feel my reasoning is justified.

@Palmar
Why am I not surprised?

On June 30 2011 10:07 GMarshal wrote:

So, you think he is lying?

Actually this is a day 1 claim, isn't it. As per Ace's logic we then lynch the dt. Sorry VE, but flipping drezak first tells us nothing about your alignment, while flipping you first reveals both yours and Drezaks. If you do flip DT we vigi Drezak first thing tomorrow morning.

On June 30 2011 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ace's logic applies to D1 starts with Night kills...not a Real-Time setup with NO night-phase.

But hey, do whatever you want. I can rest easy now that you guys know the truth.

On June 30 2011 10:13 GMarshal wrote:


Sure thing. When a DT claims day 1 there are a few possibilities.

1.) He is scum, and is trying to establish himself as town and his target is red
2.) He is a DT as he claims
3.) He is scum and his target is green, this is a form of damage control

Say we hang his claimed target first, and he flips red. Now we have to sit here and spend a whole day or more wifoming about is he scum busing a team mate to become a "confirmed" townie and lead us astray? Is he a DT and we need to follow his commands? Why isn't the mafia shooting/rbing him?

We lynch the DT first and we know for sure what Drezaks alignment is, and we avoid the whole shenanigans with not knowing what VE is. Looking over VE's posts they make some sense for a new blue, but this is still the proper way to handle DT claims day 1 and 2.

On June 30 2011 10:17 GMarshal wrote:


Lynching the DT first is still the correct play. I'm going to say fuck the correct play right now, because it all clicked when he claimed. Also now I feel sheepish for thinking Draz is town, but I guess we'll see soon enough.

On June 30 2011 10:20 youngminii wrote:
Also, huge /facepalm on town for forcing a DT roleclaim.

Did you seriously think VisceraEyes was playing scummy? Think very carefully and reflect upon these words:

He is not the one that played badly. YOU are.

On June 30 2011 10:28 GMarshal wrote:

Sure thing. I pointed out what the right approach is, i didn't endorse following it, I merely indicated what it is.

Please Vigi, shoot me tomorrow.

On June 30 2011 10:29 youngminii wrote:
Yeah, Vig you should shoot GM if Drazerk flips red.

I just realised there's no point shooting him if VisceraEyes is lying ^_^

On June 30 2011 15:05 Lanaia wrote:
I'm really sorry for my lack of activity in the past few hours.
I promise you I will post in the morning. I've got the worst headache and my ears are all allergylike.

I'm not sure about forum games, but is scum likely to bus?

On June 30 2011 10:17 GMarshal wrote:


Lynching the DT first is still the correct play. I'm going to say fuck the correct play right now, because it all clicked when he claimed. Also now I feel sheepish for thinking Draz is town, but I guess we'll see soon enough.

On June 30 2011 17:56 youngminii wrote:
==;;
yes palmar we know
we're waiting for a vig to hit him

On June 30 2011 18:00 sandroba wrote:
Clearly I'm a more important kill than the DT =)

On June 30 2011 23:32 Jackal58 wrote:

Not really. If you do it there are 2 outcomes. Your guy gets lynched because the real DT claimed and you now have the real dt wrapped up. Or the real dt keeps his mouth shut until he can bring a case. Either way if you had 2 guys leading the lynch you still come out 1 day ahead.

I'm just pointing out a scenario that is not outside of the realm of possibility.
If another DT claims before VE is resolved there is a chance he'll be lynched.

On July 01 2011 01:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, check is back...I'm not disclosing role because that would give information to all you mafia out there, but I can say that he's innocent.

So there you have it...my one free investigation. Either DB was targetting me or all the mafia roleblocks were still on cooldown. Now we have to figure out how to proceed from here. I suggest d3 I do a lurker check - there are some serious people on the lurker list, not just the typical new players I was expecting to see there...so we should consider doing a lurker check d3.

I'm going back to reread posts from the following: Lanaia, 201, Mr.Wiggles, and Vain. I'm hoping something comes up, as I'm not really hopeful about getting a check d3.

PS, I'm still waiting on a vig to confirm GM's claim...a confirmed townie in GM would be a powerful weapon against scum.

On July 01 2011 03:23 Lanaia wrote:
Let me preface this post by saying Kurumi is my favourite for the post with the Hello Kitty picture. <3



I agree with chaos13 here. GM's play is making my head spin because of this play of his. I don't think he should have said anything and should have waited until a vig hit, and then possibly said something? I don't know, but I know I don't like what he's done here. And I don't like how he's constantly talking about it. It feels really damn wifom-y to me.

I'm not going to give a list of people I think should be vigged or protected. Those who should be protected are probably obvious.

I have this crazy sensation that sinasi206 or however you spell it is scum. I will have to reread him in isolation though.

On July 01 2011 03:39 Lanaia wrote:
Okay, changed my mind. I'll wait to see how supersoft plays.



I never said I still think he's town.

I read your post and I agree with it. Especially the toe-dipping analogy. I feel it really fits.
As you've said, I also think he should be shot, but it really bothers me that he's actively seeking it out. If he isn't shot today, I'll probably vote for him.

On July 01 2011 04:21 ~OpZ~ wrote:


Do an analysis of me plz!!!

PRETTY PLZ!!!!

On July 01 2011 04:45 ~OpZ~ wrote:

That's not possible....Point your icky finger at me again and I'm biting it.

Come on Jackal, I can't have a little fun...I'm waiting for the herd to thin out a bit. Can't stand this 30+ pages a day shit.

My opinion's as of now, VIGING GM IS RETARDED. Scum would pop him the instant he claimed vig hit. He should have just claimed he was vig hit. If there is another vig out there, he'd probably be thinking "Oh shit, there's ANOTHER vig? Okay. That makes sense." and tried to draw the scum hit instead. Nub. Put a point in malicious anti-scum plotting. GM Scum would love to pop you if you were town, at least according to everyone else.

I've been very vehemently stating that I don't think vigi's should pop people this early (But good job with DropBear). Honestly, if GM does die, and pops town, I'd point at all those people who said for a vig to shoot him. YoungMinii and You, Mr. Palmar.

I also very much so think YM is scum, buuuuuuut with that said, I always think YM is scum....Always.

On July 01 2011 05:13 Cthsazsa wrote:
EBWOP: I might as well say it now since I'm pretty positive someone's going to bring it up in the future.
The hidden reason why I switched to VE was because I thought I saw a blue hint from Palmar.
Sadly I was wrong

On July 01 2011 05:48 syllogism wrote:
As for GM, I don't see how vigi hitting him is useful. The vigi would have to roleclaim and we've no way of knowing if the vigi is town without wasting a DT check on him. Now, this would net us two scum, but the odds them doing this gambit are low. However the mere possibility means GM can't be confirmed in this manner. Even assuming we believe the vigi and thus confirm both, one or both of them will be likely mafia targets. If the vigi is a compulsory vigi, this doesn't seem like a good trade. It seems to me GM has to be lynched sooner or later.

On July 01 2011 06:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I do not agree that GM is scum. I think he's too set on catching a bullet. I mean, he COULD be like, GF that's painted up to LOOK like a Vet, but I seriously doubt he'd gamble his life against

1)Vigs too chickenshit to do something for town,
2) DT noticing this and throwing a check on him,
3) DT verifying his claim.

It doesn't make sense. Period. GM CAN NOT be scum, I 100% guarantee it.

I'll check him tomorrow if you guys spare him tonight, but really...thinking he's scum after BEGGING for a bullet is...guys, it's retarded. There's no other way to say it. Scum WOULD NOT do that.

On July 01 2011 08:16 Eiii wrote:
hahahaha

Anyway, town seems to have lost focus between the GM ordeal and everything else. I think all that needs to be said is that he's used the pressure as an excuse to completely stop contributing analysis or anything at all apart from 'shoot me', which is extremely scummy in my eyes. We can lynch him today, but I'd rather just pretend that every non-useful post of his in the thread doesn't exist so we can focus on more interesting targets.
I'm still curious to see what other people have to say about chaos/hiro. I don't think the case against 206 is too strong, he just feels like bad town to me.

On July 01 2011 09:42 Palmar wrote:


youngminii got this completely right.

There is a very strong case against GMarshal on the table.

He has claimed a role that makes it incredibly easy to confirm him. Sure the mafia will off him, but it will throw light on the situation.

He has yet to be shot. I am pleading to you guys, you one shot vigilantes. Please, please shoot GMarshal and then claim it in the last 6 hours of the day.

It would be detrimental to town if you force us to lynch him. GMarshal must be shot to produce a better atmosphere to work in. Your services are required. The Brother Leader and Guide of the Town needs your help. This is only in the name of justice and for the good of our people.

Show that you are a loyal townie, shoot GMarshal.

On July 01 2011 10:00 supersoft wrote:
if we're really clever, our medic will save GMarshal, so he won't even lose a hitpoint in this process...

On July 01 2011 18:14 GMarshal wrote:


Take note. This is what is called pushing a mislynch. I'm not asking anyone to let me live through the game. We know theres a comp-vigi who shot DB this morning. Have him shoot me tomorrow. I'll claim when I get hit, if I'm lying then the comp vig knows and can shoot me. Guaranteed townie or dead scum, its win win. Doesn't even require anyone else to claim, I lie, I die.

Or you can waste a lynch.

On July 01 2011 18:20 syllogism wrote:
No, the comp vigi does not have to reveal as he can just shoot GMarshal on d4. Actually even revealing himself to lynch red at this point wouldn't be a bad alternative

On July 01 2011 18:22 GMarshal wrote:

Comp vig dosn't have to claim...

He shoots me, I get notified and claim it.

If I lie about taking a hit then the comp vig knows Im scum and blows my head off.

If I dont get my head blown off I'm telling the truth.

Where does the vig claim?

On July 01 2011 19:35 supersoft wrote:
Am I right? Varpulis killed Lanaia and Kenpachi with his bombs. Consequently mafia has one KP left?

On July 01 2011 19:38 supersoft wrote:


no, I meant for today. I know that there are 3 mafioso left.

On July 02 2011 03:44 syllogism wrote:
Oh I didn't believe that at all, it was just something worth considering. It doesn't even have to be the GF, but you can infer things from activity during kills regardless of whether it was the GF who send in the kills.

On June 30 2011 08:07 sinani206 wrote:

---



• Number and length of posts
  Nisani201 has 36 posts in the thread, 24 of which are from after the Day 1 post. His mean post length is 2.5 sentences, his mode post length is 2 sentences, and his maximum post length is 6 sentences which he reached 2 times. Just keep these numbers in mind as I continue this analysis.
  

  ---

  
  
• Contentless posting
  Here is an example of one of Nisani201's better posts:
  
  
  On June 29 2011 07:59 Sinani201 wrote:
  

  Show nested quote +
  

  On June 29 2011 07:55 sandroba wrote:
  @Hiro How about a reason to vote for him? I'm pretty confident syllogism is town.

  
  
  I agree. I just looked through Syllogism's posts. While they may not necessarily all of opinions in them, only two of them seem somewhat pointless, which isn't enough to warrant a lynch.
  
  Cthsazsa's analysis on Drazerk seems to be correct and I definitely think that he is scum. And thus, I place my vote.
  
  ##Vote: Drazerk
  
  
  In this post, he simply agrees with sandroba's thoughts that syllogism is town and Cthsazsa's analysis, which showed that Drazerk was scum. He does not provide any new content.
  
  
  His other 6-sentence gem:
  
  
  On June 29 2011 10:33 Sinani201 wrote:
  This trend of shooting down spammy players is insanely stupid; it's what lost the town in XVII. Cthasza wrote a fantastic analysis on Drazerk, and if he's right about it then there shouldn't be a reason to lynch him.
  
  I'm voting for Draserk because he is full of contradictions and slip-ups, NOT because of spam.
  
  That is all.
  
  
  He provides one tiny piece of advice: not to kill spammy players, which is only half-right: lynch scum, shoot spammers. He re-references Cthasza's analysis and defends his vote, but he doesn't give any evidence of Drazerk's "contradictions and slip-ups."
  
  These are Nisani201's two longest posts, and both of them are simply parroting what others have said and stating the obvious without adding any new analysis to the table.
  

  ---

  
  
• Active lurking
  Here are some examples of what the average Nisani201 post looks like:
  
  
  On June 28 2011 11:57 Sinani201 wrote:
  No more stupid TF2 Garry's Mod videos.
  
  This is serious business.
  
  
  On June 28 2011 14:15 Sinani201 wrote:
  Sorry, bad formatting.
  
  Please change my name on the player list to "Nisani201 (Sinani201)" as that is what I should be known as throughout the game
  
  
  On June 28 2011 14:40 Sinani201 wrote:
  

  Show nested quote +
  

  On June 28 2011 14:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
  I enjoy how GMarshal included Palmar on the Vet list, yet his first game was my first game as well. Yes, he had a strong showing for Mafia that game...but in all honesty, scum won from an inactive town. I wonder what motivation GMarshal has putting a new player like Palmar (if you'd like to see an example of his 'stellar town play', may I direct you to PTP?) in the 'Vet' side of that list. He's certainly no vet as far as I'm concerned.
  
  

  
  
  Palmar is not in this game, he submitted /out soon before the game started.
  
  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=237124&currentpage=6#109
  
  
  On June 29 2011 01:41 Sinani201 wrote:
  The roles should have been randomized, likely with random.org. I doubt that RoL "strategically" planted roles on each of us.
  
  
  On June 30 2011 06:35 Sinani201 wrote:
  When is Day over?
  
  What happens if the lynch ends up being a tie?
  
  
  These are all bits of information that are not useful to the town in any way and questions that can easily be answered by reading the OP. He makes these posts because he doesn't want to have to post content, but he doesn't want to seem inactive.
  

  ---

  
  
• Scummy play
  
  On June 28 2011 12:21 Sinani201 wrote:
  

  Show nested quote +
  

  On June 28 2011 12:15 sinani206 wrote:
  Blues should play however and whenever they want. I shouldn't even have to mention that the townie is the most important role in the game. Analysis wins games, not blues. Let's get some pressure going.
  
  I'm pretty annoying, so I'm going to pressure ##Vote: Sinani201 into being active because I know how much time he spends sitting at his computer and I don't want him to die from lurker KP his first game.
  
  If someone dies from lurker KP, do they get banlisted?

  
  
  You're already voting for me?
  
  First off, I am not Sinani201. I'm Nisani201.
  
  Second of all, if you want me to make a post, you could have asked nicely.
  
  I don't have anything to contribute yet. I'm reading every single post, and when I feel like I have enough information, I will contribute.
  
  
  First, I pressure him into posting and he responds by saying that he will contribute when he has enough information. Let's see what he means by contribute:
  
  
  On June 28 2011 13:24 Sinani201 wrote:
  

  Show nested quote +
  

  On June 28 2011 13:22 chaos13 wrote:
  Would somebody mind assembling a list of the skilled/veteran players for myself and the others who are not familiar with all the names in the roster? A 'priority list', if you will, of players mafia are likely to kill first.

  
  
  From this, it seems like you are either trying to help the Mafia, or softclaiming medic. Or perhaps trying to help the medic.
  
  
  This is his "analysis" of chaos13, where he points out that he is either Mafia or Medic. This contribution does not help town at all. The fact that he could be on either side is useless, and pointing out that he could be Medic helps Mafia, as GMarshal pointed out.
  
  His next "contribution:"
  
  
  On June 29 2011 09:38 Sinani201 wrote:
  I don't really understand how the first quote from him is a scumslip. The second one is iffy; I could see why you might think it's suspicious but it could by no means be used as a primary argument.
  
  
  He is referring my supposed scumslips which were posted by sandroba. He refuses to take a stance on my play. He is acting extremely safe and neutral, which is a scummy trait.
  
  A more recent post:
  
  
  On June 30 2011 00:40 Sinani201 wrote:
  Drazerk has posts that give off scumtells. For Viscera, it's a lack of posts.
  
  I don't understand why the bandwagon against Drazerk is a bad thing. A lot of people are voting for him. That just means Cthsasa's analysis against him was good. It's not OMGUS, it's just agreement.
  
  
  He says that a lot of people are voting for Drazerk because Cthazsa's analysis was good. I assume he was talking about himself as well when he said this. He subtly explains that he is voting because of the analysis, not because he actually thought that Drazerk was scummy. This is a major scumslip. He is basically saying he found a good analysis to hide behind.
  
  Finally, he says this in response to Drazerk's analysis of me:
  
  
  On June 30 2011 04:09 Sinani201 wrote:
  You're trying to draw attention away from the large amount of votes you have accumulated. We have pretty much established that you are scum so why should anyone trust you?
  
  
  This is a scummy post because Drazerk's analysis of me was good because it could have started some healthy discussion, and as scum, Nisani201 would want to stop all discussion, which he does, which proves his scumminess.
  

  ---

  
  

That took an hour and a half to write.
Whew.
My vote will stay on VisceraEyes today, but tomorrow, I urge all of you to vote for Nisani 201.
Thank you, good sirs.

On July 02 2011 00:59 Sinani201 wrote:
Why do people think I'm scum? You've accused me a few times this game, please explain why.

On July 02 2011 05:20 gtrsrs wrote:
oh yeah herp
for some reason i thought we were on a new day derp

yeah i think it's likely that viscera is faking it
by not revealing varpulis' role, and only breadcrumbing that he was blue (in fact i think he only said "varpulis is innocent" which mafia would obviously know), he was able to let the mafia hit varpulis, and if varpulis flipped green he could have said something like "nice! i baited the mafia into hitting a green, my breadcrumbs worked!"

so then we've got
kenpachi
drazerk
dropbear

and in my eyes, 3 of the following
sinani201
hiro protagonist
viscera
GMarshal

or maybe sinani206 who is now supersoft.

pretty solid list to work with. i feel like it might have come too easily though. if GMarshal was scum i doubt he'd let his team make mistakes like they're making. but at the same time he HAS claimed to be busy, so that would explain his lack of leadership.

anyways i guess the right thing to do is lynch sinani/hiro today, shoot GMarshal tomorrow, and lynch viscera tomorrow, right?

On July 01 2011 01:45 chaos13 wrote:
The people I am most suspicious of right now:
youngminii - Started off Day 1 with random accusations less than an hour in, attempting to disrupt a pro-town atmosphere. He still hasn't convinced me he is town. I'd like to see explanations for posts like this one


GMarshal - Started off Day 1 extremely pro-town, but has had some weird things going on at the end into the beginning of Day 2. This will easily be solved by a smart vigilante. We either have dead scum or confirmed vet

syllogism - Giving me bad vibes, and there was something specific that I or someone else had earlier (if I didn't mention it, somebody else did and I made a mental note of it and forgot to actually record it). I'll see if I can find it tomorrow

OpZ - For a veteran player he's not doing too well. Ended up on the lurker list and hasn't been pro-town by any stretch of the imagination. He would be an excellent lurker hit today imo.

People I think are town
sinani206 - I was rather suspicious of his posts to begin with, so I checked over them. I think it is far more likely that he is town than scum, he has had some that can be construed as anti-town, but I do not believe that was their intention.

Palmar - Sure, there are some people who are suspicious of him, but all I can see is that it revolves around him being too pro-town. He has shown that he is charismatic and can be a good leader, and he has had many opportunities to use this to completely derail discussion, but has instead used it to focus discussion when it begins to get scattered or off-topic.

Uncertain
VisceraEyes - Could be DT, could be a major bus. However, if he returns Varpulis result as town and viscera is scum, he'll easily be counterclaimed. Varp, if he claims you are vanilla town and you are a blue role, wait until the last six hours to refute his claim.

Lanaia - I had an early town read on (him/her?) because everything posted was consistently solid and pro-town. However, since then I haven't seen much content, and I am growing more suspicious.

Cthsazsa - Similar case to Lanaia. I already made an admittedly weak case, and he shot it down with no problem. It was such a good case that I was convinced he was town. However, a lack of content since then has disturbed me.

Vain - I have seen nothing really pro-town, so I'll be keeping a close eye on him. He's leaning more towards scummy than uncertain.


Anyone else I have no real read on at the moment. The uncertain players I mentioned are simply the ones I have no read on that stand out to me.

On July 02 2011 05:55 syllogism wrote:
If you read Chaos' later post, he wanted to get Varpulis or VE checked. I'm not sure what that implies because he had ample time to react to the results, assuming he didn't waste his check on someone else earlier. VE can also be GF who shows up as DT, which would explain the bus and the gambit.

On July 02 2011 06:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
:O NOOOOOOOOO

That means I'm in all likelihood the last DT...no pressure or anything.

@syllo and everyone concerned about the timing of my Draz check

The fact of the matter is that I didn't SAVE my check, I checked him about an hour after I first could. The reasoning was based on meta, admittedly. Remember what I said about martyrs? I followed SNMMIV because SNMMII was my first game here and I bore witness to his little ploy in that game. I didn't like it then, in spite of him being town all along. I thought he might try the same nonsense in this game so I wanted to find out his alignment RIGHT off the bat. Not much of a reason, but there isn't much of a reason to do anything that early in the game...from what I gather, blues typically have to wait until after d1 to make any checks, which is AMPLE time to have sufficient reason to check someone.

Also, regarding my Kenpachi vote, I've played a couple of games with this guy and I've read some too...he's active when town, to the point of annoyance sometimes. I guess I just missed the guy. It was really just a pressure vote, but I felt it was justified because of his inactivity / presence on the lurker list. If he was still on the lurker list tomorrow, he was my #1 priority to check.

I'm reading over 206 and YM's posts now...I was leaning pretty town on YM before, so I'm starting with him.

On July 02 2011 07:36 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Good choice Bro. I'm voting Hiro. His instasheeping is bugging me...And I'd vote for YM, but I'm not voting 201 just yet. And seriously...VE being DT? How possible is that...

On July 02 2011 07:43 ~OpZ~ wrote:
What is everyone's position on Mr. Wiggles?

On July 02 2011 08:08 ~OpZ~ wrote:

I really would like you to stop posting....and possibly die. But I was more concerned in hitting 100% scum, not 70%....I think someone who can argue convincingly should take a look at you. Like YM, or Jackal. I can't.

But you've wanted us to wait for VE for a while, and wanted me to hit GM all day. Fuck that.

On July 02 2011 08:11 GMarshal wrote:

Sure. Keep telling yourself that. But people were listening to him, no one doubted his report on Visc.

So tell me, how does your argument that I am scum based on wanting to lynch the DT stand now? Does it look... weaker?

What are the arguments for me being scum now? Other than defending Drazek, which I will admit was a blunder on my part.

Again, I'm cool with confirm shooting me tomorrow, but at least this makes the majority of the arguments against me null and void.

On July 02 2011 08:15 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Good point...I was with you too tho...He was spamming. It was bugging me. What's it to you?!

I just haven't seen you posting like you were at VE since then. Time draining my memory away. No one's been pressuring, and I've been away most of the day.

Atleast now, I think I'll be left alone about this lurking shit -_-....*afk next 32 hours*

On July 02 2011 08:37 GMarshal wrote:


With 5 hits out there its *blatantly* obvious you are faking Opz. I mean you must be the scum aligned vigilante, or the serial killer, trying to gain town cred. ~Opz just lowered the scum KP by one, if he is mafia then he has balls of steel.

That is all.

On July 02 2011 08:41 Jackal58 wrote:

That's the reason I don't see GM or Wiggles as scum. Also the main reason I see our self proclaimed town father as scum.

On June 30 2011 10:20 youngminii wrote:
Also, huge /facepalm on town for forcing a DT roleclaim.

Did you seriously think VisceraEyes was playing scummy? Think very carefully and reflect upon these words:

He is not the one that played badly. YOU are.

On July 02 2011 09:39 Jackal58 wrote:

I dunno Palmar. I think you'd look pretty good with a bomb in your pants.

On July 02 2011 09:42 GMarshal wrote:

Agreed, I was so pumped to get shot too.

Anyway, unvoting you and moving to sinani201, who was the other lynch candidate for the day.

Also I know sinani206 replaced, but can someone tell me who replaced him? I remember I was suspicious of 206, but I need to go back and look over his replacements posts.

On July 02 2011 10:11 Jackal58 wrote:

I'm surprised you didn't say we had to lynch YM to confirm him.
You're the GF bro.

On July 02 2011 10:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wait, I'm confused right now o.O

Are you saying I'll lynch hiro, or calling me scum?

If you think I'm scum, I'd like to see why, rather than just throwing my name out there. It's non-committal and scummy when there's no reasoning behind it.

On July 02 2011 10:19 syllogism wrote:
I'm inclined to believe his claim. That graph seems a bit too much effort for a scum and there's no counterclaim. He should still have a lurker shot left, which we can use tomorrow. I think I'll have to vote Hiro unless someone can make a quick case on Wiggles.

On July 02 2011 11:07 Jackal58 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Pure unadulterated fucking bullshit. I just read every post Chaos has made. This is not a breadcrumb - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10066459

That's his opinion. Or are you going to tell us he checked everybody in that post. He has not bread crumbed you anywhere.


A scum team full of derps. I wonder who is leading them.

On July 02 2011 19:02 Hyaach wrote:
Just a curious thought, where did it say there's only 6 mafia?
it could be 7 for all we know

On June 25 2011 09:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

There is currently 16/24 town aligned players remaining.
There is currently 1/6 mafia aligned players remaining.

On July 01 2011 01:45 chaos13 wrote:
People I think are town
sinani206 - I was rather suspicious of his posts to begin with, so I checked over them. I think it is far more likely that he is town than scum, he has had some that can be construed as anti-town, but I do not believe that was their intention.

On July 02 2011 20:30 Palmar wrote:
If this isn't a breadcrumb.

On July 03 2011 00:14 Jackal58 wrote:

Because I find it hard to believe Wiggles sucked that hard?

On July 03 2011 01:58 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Agreed. If he thinks he can go 8 days without being found out...Well...that's hilarious. Cuz I really don't mind lynching anyone. It'll take 3/4 days just to kill all the people "confirmed" if there is a medic that's refusing to claim, it'll take even longer, because he should be protecting myself and/or the other vig. I seriously should probably go read who claimed it again. Gmarshal is two hits to kill...

-__-

On July 03 2011 07:11 Mig wrote:
YM has said that he isn't going to blow up GM palmar. So we are likely going to have to decide on whether GM is town or not without any confirmation shot. Which could be good for us. If we had proof that GM was telling the truth about being a vet without losing one of his lives then the game would be pretty much over for mafia.

But I see now that my idea wasn't right. YM said he didn't feel like blowing up gmarshal anymore and was going to pick his own targets then shortly after mafia shot 201. So maybe GM decided to gamble and that it was more important to kill a confirmed townie.

On July 03 2011 07:23 Cthsazsa wrote:
Oh yea I left this out part out.
If Jackal flips town, my next vote is going for Palmar.

On July 03 2011 07:34 Jackal58 wrote:

Why do you never vote for those you call scummy? It's always "Let's keep him aroond so we can keep an eye on him"

On July 03 2011 07:52 Jackal58 wrote:
I also don't understand why you're not dead. If I was on the scum team you would have died on day 2. Early on day 2.

On July 03 2011 07:54 syllogism wrote:
Yes, though unfortunately mafia hits have been terrible overall so can't read too much into that

On July 03 2011 07:57 syllogism wrote:
For Palmar to be the remaining mafia goon (?) this would have had to be an experimental game in which the mafia team agrees to allow him to bus most of his scum team to gain town cred and then play alone for two weeks. I guess the alternative is that no one on the team thought people would pay attention to Palmar on day 1.

On July 03 2011 08:00 syllogism wrote:
Day 2 hits were okay, day 1 hits not so much, even if they thought TAA was detective

On July 03 2011 08:05 Jackal58 wrote:

Sure.
I concede to town.