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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On June 30 2011 18:17 Palmar wrote: lol stop soft-claiming and just ask the hosts in pm. That wasn't a soft claim. I was wondering why VisceraEyes wasn't roleblocked immediately. Perhaps there are two GFs, though that seems like a stupid idea in this format | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 30 2011 15:37 Palmar wrote: Very likely. This has in no way cleared anyone, but I still love this kill. Proceed scumhunting as normal. You are an expert in bussing;) Bussing your last teammate in a game were there are only inactives and scum practically won already. Aside from that, I always assume scum bus the hell out of each other. I know in PTP Dropbear spend a whole long post only talking about how scummy his teammates are. It was quite funny if you were in on that info. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
Why do dropbear and draz simultaneously start calling 206 and 201 Henry VI and Edward the First? I never really got it in the first place, but both nicknames happen within four posts of each other (as far as I can tell). | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
My bad! | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
Chaos13 and hiro's behavior around the time when the draz wagon was picking up is what stood out to me the most during the last readthrough. Like I said before, I feel like people were trying to focus attention elsewhere as draz started to get some votes; One of them was hiro, with his sudden pressure on syll. He doesn't talk about draz at all, until: On June 29 2011 08:20 hiro protagonist wrote: unvote syllogism OK, thanks for the input. I look forward to hearing your reasons for your vote. As for Drazerk, he has not been my radar. I will go back though his post and let you know what I think. Of course, his thoughts never show up in the thread. After TAA dies, he sticks his vote on Draz and then just disappears. That's all for hiro, really, but between his low profile and his behavior around this lynch, I definitely think he's someone we should keep an eye on. Chaos does some pressuring, but it looks pretty normal and he backs off after getting a response. He refuses to mention draz as well, until things are well underway: On June 29 2011 11:56 chaos13 wrote: He's starting to agree with the lynch, so he's on everyone else's side but... oh man, look at all these weaknesses in the bandwagon! Is this really a good idea?I'm beginning to agree about Drazerk, but there are a few questions I have regarding that: 1. How do we know he is just not noob town? Has he played much before? 2. Why is there no resistance to his lynch party? 3. If he is mafia, you would think his scumbuddies would be helping him improve his posting. Ironically, by putting it out there that there's no resistance to the lynch in such a sneaky way he's trying to provide exactly the resistance that he says is lacking. Chaos later goes on to vote for VE. He even makes this post about how he wants to avoid lynching a dt... but he keeps his vote on VE anyway, even though his logic seems to assuming that VE actually *is* DT. Neither hiro nor chaos look good to me right now, but after researching this and writing it all up I'm most confident in saying that chaos13 is scum. Bedtime! | ||
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Vain
Netherlands1115 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On June 28 2011 15:47 youngminii wrote: LOLWUT That was completely unexpected, I've never played a nightless game before. I'm going to assume that it was a scum hit? The mafia were clearly trying to blue snipe and LSB seemed as if he was creating a plan. This leads me to believe the scum misinterpreted this as a Vet (no not experienced player, I mean the actual role) trying to make a good plan/trap to catch scum. My guess? The mafia roleblocked him and killed him hoping he was a Vet or at least a blue. If the above is true, then this is a best case scenario for us as it means no other blue role will be roleblocked today. His understanding of the real time mechanics is bizarrely poor. He is a good player, so why is this the case? Further, you ”assumed” that was a scum hit? There was absolutely no chance at all that being a one-shot vigi hit and you know that. Seems like a scum overcompensating due to him knowing for a fact it was a scum hit. That roleblocking scenario makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. + Show Spoiler + On June 28 2011 16:32 youngminii wrote: I can see what sandroba's saying, I don't fully agree but I don't fully disagree either. As for your point #4 I have actually acknowledged that as a complete fail by me, and you're actually wrong, roleblocks do in fact block the Vet's extra life, I took the time to ask RoL. If you're going to make snide (rude) remarks about the people you are accusing, at least check your facts before blatantly throwing around 'facts'. I'm not impressed by the way you're handling yourself this game but I'm fairly certain you're not a scum. If I was a DT and I was suspicious of GM, I would check him. I'm not going to tell you to do it though since we're operating a "do what you want" policy this game afaik. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2011 00:09 youngminii wrote: i like the way you think theawesomeall don't worry about palmar though, he's always like this i can only think of gmarshal as the best dt candidate for now okay i'm gonna head off now i'll be back when i wake up + Show Spoiler + On June 28 2011 16:52 youngminii wrote: It's completely situational though, say everyone on the lurker list is scummy. Then obviously the DT will check them. But what if they're not, what if there are more pressing issues at hand and you really need to check someone like you or me or GM? This is why the threat of being kicked into the lurker list is enough, while blues should do what they feel is best. Enough of this talk imo, I absolutely agree with TheAwesomeAll's post but there's soo many people who basically haven't posted yet either. I'm going to head out for a bit and I'll stop clogging up the thread until more people have posted. Ciao ^o^ Early on, he seemed to think GM was a good DT check target, but was really wishy washy about it for no reason. I find it hard to believe he didn't realize by this point he would very likely be GF or town. In addition, he agrees with TAA's post about GM being suspicious, but then sort of doesn't because not enough people have posted yet? I guess ”clogging up the thread” with actual analysis isn't something that would serve your goals. He never really ended up doing any analysis despite there being an abudance of material. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2011 16:40 youngminii wrote: Well okay I don't see anything wrong with lynching Drazerk now. I'll laugh my ass off if he flips non-red. + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2011 02:25 youngminii wrote: To the person that said "What if he checked GM". If you go back and read his posts he explicitly says "DT don't bother checking GM, if he's scum he's definitely GF so it would be a waste". To which I agree. Hence Drazerk is our best target. You can argue on whether or not he checked him but it doesn't really matter, he's the best target going on from the information we have. If you don't agree then there's either something seriously wrong with you or you're scum, plain and simple. In any case, he tunneled Drazerk pretty damn hard, I didn't agree with his opinions at all but here we are. + Show Spoiler + On June 29 2011 13:28 youngminii wrote: I thought I told you guys to stop this shit with sinani. The Palmar lynch I can completely understand. He's terrible yada he likes bandwagons he just wants to kill people etc. I KNOW This is his town play. Sure, there's a possibility that he's mafia and he's hiding behind his regular town meta (unlikely) but this is just him, you can't do anything about that. In fact, I've heard his scum play is excellent (never seen it myself), if so why would he post like a poor town? Anyway, between hiro drazerk syllo I'm gonna go with syllo. I firmly believe that both hiro and syllo are scum at this very moment, drazerk's posts are too shallow to make a judgement out of. For syllo, some of you are arguing that his first post about helping direct blues should relieve him as that is clearly town favoured. Wrong, go read that post again, it's a very heavily veiled post that doesn't actually help anyone. Do you really think a medic won't know that the last 6 hours of a day is unhittable? What syllo does is point this out, then says but medics shouldn't save straight away because scum will hit in the 6 hours before the last 6, but then it's up to the medics because if we tell them what to do scum will abuse it etc. etc. Then in the next paragraph he completely nullifies everything he said by saying "But nah, you can ignore everything I said if you want". Just remember, lots of scum like to make a huge 'helpful' post at the start to appear as townie as they can. I've seen this first hand. Every post he has made until Palmar calling him out has been extremely neutral and unhelpful to the town cause. As soon as Palmar gets to him, syllo OMGUS votes Palmar? Yeah and there was the whole EXTREMELY WEAK hiro voting for syllo for 'pressure' and after like a one liner from syllo hiro backs off. Best candidate, by far. Easily. However, then he later retroactively, while bussing his teammates, agrees that DT checking GM was a bad idea after all! Also this is when bussing begins. His justification for voting Drazerk is very strange. Previously he didn't have an opinion on Drazerk because his posts are too ”shallow” (???). Also note that suddenly the real time mechanics are completely obvious, while initially he didn't even realize mafia could kill in real time. On June 30 2011 02:30 youngminii wrote: No, I don't agree with his case. I had no opinion of Drazerk and I still don't, not one big enough to justify a lynch. However, when a DT dies and his last action was to tunnel a guy who shouldn't have had a case on him in the first place, coupled with his theory of Drazerk and GM working together, it logically makes sense to go after Drazerk since he felt so strongly about it. Could he have just tunneled Drazerk without a check? Yes. But it's just as likely that he did check him, we don't know for sure. What I'm trying to say is, Drazerk is the most logical lynch based on the information we have. You seriously want to lynch VisceraEyes for his somewhat questionable actions? It's not THAT scummy to prioritise him over the guy that the DT was gunning for. Wow, you still don't have an opinion on Drazerk despite wanting to lynch him. By that point it had been repeatedly pointed out that the time line on TAA checking Drazerk doesn't make sense. Also saying it's just as likely that he was DT checked than not shows he either doesn't care about the game mechanics or pretends to be oblivious. + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2011 02:42 youngminii wrote: lol I said I wouldn't vote him if it was just based on the analysis against him. However, with the whole DT thing I believe his lynch would be completely justified. @syllo, I somewhat agree and I was considering whether or not my vote on him is justified (I still think it is) and then I came across this: I am sick of this "nah i'm dead anyway i'm off see ya" attitude. I've been seeing this far too often lately and I'll be more than happy to policy lynch this. People speak of creating pro-town conditions? This is just about as anti-town as you can get. This attitude where you roll over and die is absolutely unacceptable. We have to create a town meta where this will get punished, just like lurkers getting policy lynched and what not. tl;dr kill drazerk With the DT check in doubt and me and chaos13 voiced our suspicions regarding him wanting to lynch Drazerk despite not having an opinion on him and thinking TAA's case against him wasn't good his hilarious weak justification for voting for him was gone, he had to backpedal a bit and find a better excuse for bussing. He still didn't bother doing any real analysis, just found one post with him martyring that had already been pointed out. + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2011 03:01 youngminii wrote: fuck yeah you are the towniest motherfucker in this entire thread hi5 palmar i wish you'd just stick to one guy, other than that i've enjoyed your more recent posts let me ask you this if we lynch visceraeyes and he flips red, what information do we gain? am i suddenly scum because chaos13 linked us together? i hardly think so if we lynch drazerk and he flips red, dear god we have a ton of information, syllo is under fire, gm is under fire, lots of the people that are on the viscera train are under fire then again, based on recent games they're both probably non-red lawlawlawl remember: lynching based on analysis on day 1 is relatively difficult and pretty luck based, i'm a lot more comfortable following a possible dt check He wants to lynch Drazerk for information, which is generally a terrible reason to lynch someone, but not for him because he is bussing his teammate and knows if he flips red he can get a bunch of townies lynched based on them being on the wrong wagon. On June 30 2011 10:20 youngminii wrote: Also, huge /facepalm on town for forcing a DT roleclaim. Did you seriously think VisceraEyes was playing scummy? Think very carefully and reflect upon these words: He is not the one that played badly. YOU are. Scum slip? Why do you think it's town forcing a DT to roleclaim rather than scum team? This is also when he says VE was obviously a townie, despite not actually making any effort to get Drazerk lynched. On June 28 2011 15:05 youngminii wrote: It does make a lot of sense but I seriously just have to throw it out there: My scum play is even worse than my town play, if you can imagine. You say I've thrown around pointless flawed accusations but I haven't really, in XLII I tunneled 2 people with lengthy analyses but this game I've done no such thing, nothing of the sort although I am trying to maintain the same level of aggressiveness. I agree with you that arguing WIFOM is stupid though. Who gives a flying fuck who the mafia are gonna shoot on that list (well the medic does but discussing it isn't going to help), all you're going to do is waste valuable time and space and confuse everyone and everything. I agree, your scum play is incredibly bad, as shown above. That is also why your "lengthy analyses" are missing. Youngminii is SCUM | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
Still gunning for you lalalala syllogism is scum etc. etc. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
First: Misunderstanding the mechanics of a new game for a few posts is not scummy AT ALL. This was literally for like 10 minutes where I forgot Mafia had 3KP and I've been called out on it like 5 times already, give it a break. Second: When I say "I assume that was a scum hit", that's basically me saying "I'm sure that's a scum hit", it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Third: I did think GM was a good DT target, and then TAA came in and corrected me by logically deducing that GM would very likely be GF if he was scum. I agreed but I didn't voice my agreement because I didn't want to spam up the thread, instead I simply stopped saying DTs should check GM. Fourth: When did I actually say I'll come out and do an analysis in the first place? Why are you expecting this of me? Fifth: Analysis =/= post by posts. Pointing out someone's actions and why they relate to scum = analysis, which I have done. Sixth: I had no opinion on Drazerk, so what? The evidence that was on the table was our DT had been tunneling Drazerk and without a better candidate he's obviously the logical lynch. Seventh: If you really think the 'analysis' on VisceraEyes was legitimate and should have been taken seriously, then you need to work on your scumhunting skills and I am clearly wasting my time trying to respond to you. Eighth: I never said GM was townie, in fact I still think he's pretty damn scummy. However he claimed Vet and if a Vig shoots him that's the best way to confirm him so why would I want to lynch him? Ninth: Why are you making it all about VisceraEyes vs Drazerk? Mafia isn't about getting two people and herding everyone into voting for one of them. You seem to think that because I thought VisceraEyes was townie, I should be inclined to vote for Drazerk. This sir, is a flaw in logic. Tenth: Why do you keep taking things out of context? When I said Drazerk would be a good lynch for information, I say that as an extra benefit. At that point I was trying to convince people on the VisceraEyes bandwagon to switch to Drazerk. The point I was trying to make was that on TOP of the evidence already against Drazerk (TAA's tunneling mostly) there was the added benefit of information. I appreciate you taking the time to try and get me lynched and I hope this response was fitting. Lynch syllogism 2011! | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
I'm currently co-hosting Closed Casket Mafia and I've been following the game very closely for entertainment purposes. That game only has 1KP and I accidentally brought that line of thinking when I was making the post where I slipped. Hope this can reassure some people as to why I made a silly (more like lolnoob) mistake. I still don't see how it's that scummy though. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Vain
Netherlands1115 Posts
On June 30 2011 22:36 Palmar wrote: how about we lynch either mig or dropbear? I don't really know. drazerk and dropbear were buddying up for the sinai lynch. That doesn't really happen often between scums just because its suspicous. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
Context: Mig had been very aggressively trying to get VisceraEyes lynched. Then: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2011 03:27 Mig wrote: I am back! I am voting drazerk. Just quick word on my reasons why. A) Not sure if the dt did actually check him but there is probably some % chance that he could have. B) Townies more often tend to let their actions speak for them where as mafia try and make a town play then point it out for everyone to see. Draz makes a martyr post then immediately links to a game where he did the same as townie. This just sets off immediate warning bells to me because he wasn't really just giving up like his post was saying but instead was trying to copy his play as town from a previous game and hope people would notice. This just strikes me as a very scum thing to do. Quick thoughts on a couple others Visceyes - Not nearly as aggressive as he normally is as town, makes a ton of non committal posts where he really contributes nothing. Also like I said earlier scum post when it is convenient for them not for the town. Anyone who promises analysis then fails to deliver should make everyone extremely suspicious. Would be an excellent vig shot. GM - GM may actually have real life issues he is dealing with but we can't really know. But he did promise the town analysis that he hasn't delivered on. He just stopped in made one post saying people shouldn't link him and draz together then disappeared. If he does come back soon and make a good analysis it probably isn't an issue but for now I am a bit wary. Less than 30 minutes later: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2011 03:54 Mig wrote: Actually after re reading. I have changed my mind. I am more inclined to agree with chaos about VE. Visc hasn't just promised once saying he was going to make analysis but has done it repeatedly. He then provides absolutely nothing for the town, takes 0 stands on any players and when pressured he rushes out an analysis on draz (the person most analyzed by other players already). And really it just seems so opposite from Visc's normal town play. His opinions are often wrong but he has strong opinions and he has no fear expressing them and attacking other people. This game has been pretty much the polar opposite. The vote switch itself is quite scummy, but then again if Palmar does it every 5 minutes  If you can get past the fact that he made this scummy vote switch, then you'll see that his posts actually have a lot of consistency, something you won't find a lot of scum doing. Mig wanted VisceraEyes dead for a while because he wasn't playing according to his meta. He even states this in the first quote how VisceraEyes usually plays a very aggressive townie and this didn't fit. This actually makes perfect sense, considering how VisceraEyes claimed DT and I think Mig pointed this out himself. As a DT you're less likely to stick your head out which completely lines up with everything Mig had against VisceraEyes. My opinion? Town. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I still think DropBear might be one of our scum, he's playing almost exactly like I remember his scumplay from ptp, he completely rule out the Drazerk lynch but liked both VE and Sinani206 lynch. He's pointing fingers in all directions, he's called GMarshal, Eiii, Mig, Sinani206 all scum, and even in the same post. This is a great way to look like you're contributing while not commiting to anything because he knows, just as well as we know, that you're never going to get anything done unless you commit to it. @youngminii I quickly ctrl+f-ed my way through the thread, and I'm inclined to agree with you on mig for now. let's leave him off the hook for now. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
The Lurker list: hyaach Mr Wiggles Opz Kenpachi GGQ aprudds Eiii Of those that made it 2 are players that have been subbed. aprudds is now Mataza. Welcome to the cluster fuck Mataza. And GGQ. GGQ's apparent lack of activity has disappointed me, however no matter his alignment he never posts a shitload anyways. At least not in the 5 or 6 games I've played with him. I'm thinking if a vig wishes to shoot into that list you avoid those 2 atm. That leaves: hyaach Mr Wiggles Opz Kenpachi Eiii Who the fuck is hyaach? If he has indeed avoided a modkill I think he would make an excellent lurker vig shot. Of the others between Mr.Wiggles, Opz, and Eii I'll bet one of them is scum. I'm leaning towards Opz. I also think the odds are extremely high that VisceraEyes and the rest of the scum team bussed Drovzk (sp). There is already some evidence that TAA had already checked him (I don't know if the time line bears this out. If it's already been checked please spare me the effort of connecting the dots) The odds of both DTs checking the same player on the same day just seem rather low to me. If that is the case and you guys buy that he is DT then scum have managed to manipulate a medic protect while allowing him to claim role block ad nauseum. This part is important. If you are role blocked claim it immediately. If Viscera is scum then the scum team has pretty much handcuffed their RB ability. GMarshal appears to be combining his last mayoral campaign with his endgame play in PTP. Both times he was scum. By all means if you have a gun shoot him. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On June 30 2011 23:26 syllogism wrote: Don't this big games usually have 2 DTs? Seems like an extremely risky bus Not really. If you do it there are 2 outcomes. Your guy gets lynched because the real DT claimed and you now have the real dt wrapped up. Or the real dt keeps his mouth shut until he can bring a case. Either way if you had 2 guys leading the lynch you still come out 1 day ahead. I'm just pointing out a scenario that is not outside of the realm of possibility. If another DT claims before VE is resolved there is a chance he'll be lynched. | ||
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