So unless specified otherwise, all night actions that can be used any or every night, can be used at night 0 like any other night.
Closed Casket Mafia
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Palmar
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So unless specified otherwise, all night actions that can be used any or every night, can be used at night 0 like any other night. | ||
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Reading the thread. Hide your cops, cover your moles. Palmar is back. | ||
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The town is lost in disarray, confusion and fear, but no longer do you have to suffer from this, as your savior has arrived. Since I missed all the fun on discussing policies, I'll chime in on them a bit. Vigs should shoot first night, and every night there after. I don't care if this means the game is shorter, it means that higher percentage of the kills are town kills, and thus in effect reducing the number of mafia kills. As any vig hit is guaranteed not to hit one townie, it has a slightly higher chance of success than a lynch. So fire away my friends! Any people pushing for no lynches, or no shooting are not my friends. Also, deconduo is probably scum. I suggest we either lynch him or ask for a specific kill target or something. I also think Kurumi is scum, but I guess that can wait a bit. | ||
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##Vote: Radfield | ||
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Radfield has posted really obvious, but valid pro-town stuff, much of which hardly needed to be said. He is going fanatically after inactives and lurkers, but hasn't actually bothered to hop in and stick a vote on one of them. He has basically floated in the thread, stating the obvious without conclusions or actually pointing a finger at someone. Also, no lynching is terrible and should not happen. Here is a simple explanation Lynch: Can hit mafia or town MafKill: Can only hit town VigiKill: Can hit mafia or town (except the vig himself) Unless the vigis are retarded (unlikely, since I'm not one) then they should be shooting every night, and we should be lynching every night, cause we want as many kills as possible to be "our" kills and not the mafia kills. | ||
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Now go, find me an inactive and tell us why we should lynch him. | ||
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On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote: Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up. Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable. If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable. As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP. Now, I don't like deconduo more than the rest of you, but I can't let bad ideas slip by. You see, deconduo claims to be a vigilante. This means that we have two options that make sense. a) We don't believe him and lynch him for roleclaiming b) We believe him and hope he uses his KP well. I don't know how much people actually bother to read everything brought up, but controlling vigi shots when we have no idea who it is controlling them doesn't make any sense to me at all. That way the mafia can influence the choice of targets, and thus take away the unique aspect of vigi shots that they are more likely (by a little but) than any other kill in the game to hit mafia, from a purely statistical point of view. So what's it going to be? We're not directing Dec's shot, so either we let him live and make his own decisions, or we just hang him. I have no problems with simply killing him. | ||
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On June 28 2011 19:11 Radfield wrote: I do. Lynching Decon is a bad move. He's active, opinionated, and pushing his views. Players like that are bad Day 1 lynches. And saying things like: "He's 75% green but lets kill him" is not something that mafia say(unless they are really bad or really ballsy). Well, then you're encouraging us to trust him, and that's fine too. Also, you're completely wrong on the "he's probably green but lets kill" as something mafia wouldn't say, that's exactly what mafia would say. One of the little reasons I don't like deconduo is that this is the second time in the thread that he's trying to make sure that he's not certain on his suspicions. Somewhere in the thread he said about fishball "bored townie or mafia". Which again, is exactly what I'd say as mafia. Drive home a kill on a townie, and then hide behind the excuse "well I said he was probably green" or "he was bad for town anyway". You can see why mafia would like this yeah? Kill greens, don't take the blame? On a side note, I'm glad you're committing. Now tell us why he's scum. | ||
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And what has that got to do with anything? There is very likely a coroner role of some sorts anwyay. That's not the problem, I want you to stop trying to hide behind "I think he's green, but he should be shot anyway" or "he's either mafia or bad town". I want you to tell us who is scum. I think a wise man once said "If you can't convince yourself, how are you going to convince anyone else?". Kurumi, start contributing. | ||
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On June 28 2011 21:37 deconduo wrote: I have two trains of thought going on at the moment: -Fishball is mafia. Mafia are scared that I'm going to kill him so they are trying to get me lynched. I would put Fishball, BC, Kurumi as scum. Other possible suspects are Palmar, Jackal, Chezinu. Radfield, LSB are probably town. -Fishball is town. Mafia are just lurking away happy at the fact that nothing is going on. Chaoser, ILJ, sandroba would be my biggest suspects. Radfield, BC, Caller (*sigh*), probably town. If you put a gun to my head, given how the game has played out so far, my gut says option number 2 right now. If you want me to say something like Fishball is 100% town or 100% mafia, don't be dumb. Its day 1, theres not exactly a lot to go on. I don't know anything for certain. I do know that Fishball has been pretty unhelpful so far. When he was asked nicely to step up his game he refused. When he was threatened to step up his game he refused. As such, unless a better target presents itself, I'm shooting him tonight. Well, if you want to shoot someone, shoot him because you think he's scum. Everyone knows that there is a chance you're wrong, but being wrong isn't a crime, being afraid of being wrong is much worse. And sure, if the town doesn't want to lynch you, then far be it from me to direct your shots. I just hope you're making educated decisions and not OMGUS shooting. | ||
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On June 26 2011 07:23 Kurumi wrote: Assuming we have Coroner type role should it target lynched people or night kills so we know how many blues or townies died ? Should vigi kills have the same priority as lynches ? Id like to avoid viging anyone though ,unless we are dead sure someone's scum . No, you're bad. Vigis should absolutely be shooting. On June 26 2011 08:05 Kurumi wrote: It is just Fishball, just give him time to get running ! Either way I dont see a huge and strong case against him just yet,nothing crucial was told to be honest. It is just like lynching Chezinu based on meta. I don't care if he's always like this. If he's that good at mafia as half of you seem to believe, it's his responsibility to step up and try to help lead the town to victory. There's nothing more annoying than townies who bask in their ignorance and believe they're somehow too good to try their best. On June 27 2011 19:33 Kurumi wrote: GGQ was killed because he is lucky when it comes to being mafia,gg vigilante. Nice analysis, only someone like you could honestly think such bullshit, but no worries, you can just hide behind the fact that "you're trolling". Oh wait, that's bad for town too. On June 27 2011 19:55 Kurumi wrote: RoL,Ace stated that Mafia with 2KP would be too strong in this setup so I think it is either real Vigilante or Third Party Planar Dragon. Thanks for telling us the rules On June 27 2011 22:00 Kurumi wrote: ##Vote Hesmyrr Good pressure On June 27 2011 22:57 Kurumi wrote: LSB,why the heck are You discussing night hits when we don't know shit,why do You suspect Caller killing GGQ? I know there are people with motive to kill GGQ,but betting it on Caller just because is dumb. I think we should leave Night hits for now. If you know something that the town doesnt, care to share? Feed other trolls, nice. On June 28 2011 02:53 Kurumi wrote: I will continue herping derping till something worth a while comes or two men in black come to my house. ok, so you're not only being deliberately bad, but you're also refusing to try to help. There's nothing to it but scum. Can we just shoot him yet? | ||
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On June 28 2011 22:02 Kurumi wrote: Palmar,call a hit on Caller then I will start caring about Your worthless post-by-post "analysis". Trying to get rid of "weak" townie? Caller is bigger fish,too big for Your scummy mouth to swallow. I won't get lynched myself Day 1 like in XXXIX,in this game I will defend myself and bring town scum to lynch. How about you start doing that then. Cool, go write me something on caller, he's a troll. But honestly, is your town play "nah it's fine that I don't contribute and troll, cause someone else is doing it too/more". Is that it? Cause y'know, your goal isn't being "not the worst townie" but rather being "the best townie you can be". | ||
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On June 28 2011 22:09 Kurumi wrote: Palmar,You were the guy who said mass shooting is acceptable in this game. It is not. It is. | ||
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I probably shouldn't bother trying to explain this to you, but some of the vigs might read this and actually get the idea. assume a hypothetical situation, 7town vs 2mafia. assume worst case scenario, town mislynches every time. there is a vigi in game. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town cycle 2 5v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 3 3v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) Game over. In this scenario, three out of the 5 kills it takes to end the game, were town sided kills. Now let's assume we have a batshit insane compulsive vigilante. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 2 4v2 lync (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) Game over. In this scenario, the town gets 4 of the 5 kills it takes to end the game. Vigilantes should be shooting the first night, and every night there after, especially in a game where we don't know the role-setup and the flips don't mean anything, so any clever mafia is just going to keep random distance between all it's members. | ||
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On June 28 2011 22:23 deconduo wrote: The shady Iraqis who sold me my shotgun only gave me one bullet. ugh So your excuse for telling us you'd use it on someone you think is town is "I was just threatening, I'm really a one shot vigilante"? Way to blow your cover. So now you're. a) useless town kp, that needs to be fired tonight, or the mafia just kills you to reduce town kp or b) scum. you'll die anyway, from a town standpoint, claiming a one-shot vigilante before using your bullet makes zero sense. | ||
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On June 28 2011 22:29 deconduo wrote: Mafia might leave me alive after shoot cos I can't shoot anymore. Thats my reasoning. But no matter, you're still forced to shoot tonight. Which is bad. While I am all for pushing normal vigis to shoot every night, one shot vigis obviously become more accurate late-game. In any case, there was no reason for you to claim the one-shot part. I have no idea what to think of you at the moment. | ||
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On June 29 2011 00:20 LSB wrote: Intresting analysis. But why does "trolling" make someone mafia? If trolling makes someone mafia, shouldn't Caller also be in that list? Call me naive, but I assume everyone is here to try to win. I don't think anyone is going to argue that mindless trolling, followed by the defense of "but that guy is trolling more", is in any way helpful for the town. I know Kurumi is capable of playing against his win condition (see PTP) but in a game full of experienced vets, I'd expect him to at least try to win, instead of looking at this as his own little playground. So assuming he's playing to win, that leaves only the possibility of him being mafia. So yes, trolling = mafia. | ||
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On June 29 2011 00:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Note to all Vigi's at this point in time. Anyone who does not commit to any suspect and random wastes a vote into a no lynch situation today should get shot. This has been a public service message by the BloodyC0bbler corporation. I'm going to discredit you and throw suspicion on us both by agreeing with this. Anyone who is not willing to help the town should be shot. Trolls and lurkers should be shot. | ||
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On June 29 2011 00:28 deconduo wrote: So Caller and Fishball are mafia as well then? Caller just might be. Fishball has contributed more than you. | ||
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On June 29 2011 02:43 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Chaoser ........oh wait.... ##Unvote Well, I came in to a pretty dire situation. Unless I can come up with some sort of contribution to appease you guys, I'm dead. No pressure. Let's see...FoS Palmar for advocating the vigs to abuse their power...claiming it's of the utmost importance to do so, but simultaneously.... Simply killing...one of the most important roles (by your estimation alone) in the game. That's a pretty big contradiction right there, my friend. ##Vote: Palmar I refuse to vote to lynch deconduo as he's claimed vig and I feel he should get a chance to prove it. Also I'm not going to vote for myself. Anyone who says I'm "not voting with town" is scum and should be shot to death by Palmar's vigs. Nope, no contradiction, you're just reading things that aren't there. The fact that I want vigis to shoot early and shoot often does not somehow mean I believe every stupid uncalled vigi claim that pops up. | ||
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On June 29 2011 04:03 VisceraEyes wrote: The idea in this game isn't to kill as many people as we can. I don't disagree with the notion that lurkers need to be dealt wit...quickly if possible. The idea is to get everyone active. It's to not have to worry about lurkers in the first place. That way, vigi shots are better spent on scum. I agree with you that Vigis are going to be important in this game, but NOT by shooting as early and often as they can. I feel like this claim is anti town, and I hope you hang for promoting it. I don't think I said vigis should shoot lurkers exclusively. Vigis should shoot people they think are scum. Also, read my explanation on why vigis should should often, it's statistically viable, especially in a game that has less information than usual. | ||
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Chaoser/VisEyes is being voted for not contributing, but well... he got replaced out of the game because he didn't have time, and VisEyes just came in. deconduo's actions make no sense at all, not as mafia and not as town. It's astonishing he did what he did, but my best bet at the moment is to put it down to terrible town play. We can always lynch him tomorrow if the mafia doesn't end him. So, in my opinion we need to think up a new lynch. | ||
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On June 29 2011 04:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I don't think it was for lack of contributing so much as what the little Chaoser contributed was. Some shitty list which could be used to feign actually being active, and then VisceraEyes attacking you when you appear pro town. I was actually going to suggest switching to Kurumi as well until I saw VisceraEyes first contribution attacking town players. Is chaoser honestly that stupid. Like I don't think anyone in this game really thinks that posting lists somehow counts for contribution. I'd much rather kill Kurumi and see what VisEyes is up to. Trust me VisEyes has a bit of a thing for trying to lynch me and he really likes to misread stuff. Though, in all honesty, I want to lynch Radfield. I think that'd be our best lynch today. | ||
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On June 29 2011 04:55 Kurumi wrote: Sure You want to lynch Radfield scum,You killed GMarshal now You need to get rid of Radfield. Classic. I might contribute but since noone's making a case against me (just "herp derp he is trolling,so is Caller but he is scum Caller is not" nonsense) Also, thirteen wait for another transmission. I wish I was a vigi so I could shoot you. The attitude "I'm not contributing until I'm forced to" just enrages me. If you think you're a funny troll, consider yourself successful, I genuinely mad at you. | ||
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EBWOP I am genuinely mad at you. | ||
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##Vote Kurumi For reasons stated in my analysis and following posts. And also, cause if he can't be arsed playing, I can't be arsed playing with him. | ||
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On June 29 2011 05:22 Jackal58 wrote: Good luck with that. He'll herp derp one liners until the end of the game if he lasts that long regardless of his alignment. He will find a way to fos everybody before the game is over. This is how he has acted in all 3 games I've been in with him. It's very frustrating. So let's just get rid of him? | ||
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Vigilantes are killers, yes. But hopefully their shots are educated guesses and they have higher statistical chance of hitting mafia than any other kill in the game. Wanting to not use that tool, would be... insane | ||
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On June 29 2011 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote: My problem with your 'statistically viable scenario' is that it assumes that a vig is still present after Cycle 1 in both scenarios. You claimed that it was a worst-case scenario, why not erase all the vigs after the first cycle? Especially since you're putting such importance on them. It seems to me that Mafia could luck into killing a vig AS WELL AS town could unknowingly lynch a different vig. THAT would be worst-case scenario. This math is absolutely illogical and means absolutely nothing. Anyone swayed by it in THIS particular game is here by a fluke. Palmar is talking nonsense and should be lynched. Today. Sure but then you end up in the same scenario as before. Like, I'm not going to argue for my "Vigis should shoot every night" anymore. I've gotten the message across, I believe it's the best scenario for town, and it's statistically good for town. But sure, if that's all you've got, then by all means, keep playing badly. | ||
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So, while you can pretend it's a scumtell, it no longer applies to the player playing. | ||
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On June 29 2011 05:51 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not saying don't use the tool Palmar, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't just have them blindly shooting every single cycle just because they can. It WILL hurt town as they WILL hit more town than scum. Save Vig shots for people who are clearly and obviously scummy. Granted, you won't get as much of that in this PARTICULAR game, but just having them fire at random people every opportunity would be........insane. Well of course you shoot scummy people, it's only me who can shoot DTs and get away with it. And no shot will be random, they will be educated guesses made by people with the town's best interest at heart. Remember, this is an invite only game with people Ace wanted playing in his game. Mostly Veterans and good players. In theory, there should be 16 better players in the game than you and I. I trust them to make an educated guess. Now go back and find some actual scum. | ||
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On June 29 2011 05:59 Kurumi wrote: You had Your first post to straighten it up. Now You're just being wishy-washy and advocating Yourself. Okay, damn, I missed that opportunity, now I'm contradicting myself. | ||
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Is that the best idea you guys could come up with? I can't believe I'm waking up at 3 am to do this shit. But this recent garbage train on Amber is just as bad if not worse than what we already have. We have a fuckton of valid targets for tonight, why not go with some of them? quickly, let's bandwagon something that isn't a bad kill ##Unvote Kurumi ##Vote ilovejohn | ||
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Can we please reconsider? | ||
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On June 29 2011 09:46 VisceraEyes wrote: 2) Suggesting that Town KP not be used tonight. There's literally NO reason not to use Town KP tonight. We'll find out if there's SK out there when there's unclaimed deaths. This reads like a scum that is afraid of getting vig'd because he knows he doesn't plan on posting much. Lurkers gon' die, that's been made abundantly clear. hahahaha You're pro. Your entire argument against me was some stupid comment on how townies should not be shooting tonight. (Pro-tip, vigis should absolutely be shooting whoever they think is the scummiest target) And then you write this bullshit against Amber? So, if a player suggests we should be shooting, he's scum. And if a player suggests we hold our shots, he's scum. Ultimately it's the vigis own decision, all I did was point out that the vigi kill is statistically the best kill we have, so not using it would be a shame. | ||
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fuck this shit, by my own logic no lynching is bad. ##Unvote ilovejohn ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Chaoser was really scummy, but VisEyes has mostly been wrong. Don't feel like it's much of a scumtell though. | ||
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and at least there is a tiny chance this kill is mafia, there is no chance the mafia kill is mafia. | ||
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On June 29 2011 12:23 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I feel like hesitating at this hour will result in a no lynch. I will be hawking the thread and I would much prefer lynching amber over viscera, so I will change my vote. for now, but if we aren't going to get the lynch I am changing back at 11:50. ##Unvote ##Vote: Amber[LighT] I hate you RoL. less lying and uselessness please. | ||
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I thought I was doing it, missed RoL's excuse for not being on the train. Please shoot tonight vigis. it's 4 am here, I'm going to sleep. | ||
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As one thing is damn sure, the mafia isn't killing their own members. | ||
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On June 29 2011 17:03 VisceraEyes wrote: As the 4 bells toll, I hear my bed calling. I'm in utter shock and awe that I survived the day. I won't let town down tomorrow. BC, to be continued, I'm sure of it. Amber, I'm coming for YOU first. Palmar...I'm the least sure of you sir. Keep calling me an idiot, keep acting so much better than me, keep it ALL up. BC has the pleasure of experience to back up his attacks. You, however, do not. It just makes YOU look pathetic. Night Liquidia. Stop this shit man. If you're going to tunnel me you've basically committed to being useless for the rest of this day, because I am not scum. Also, I'm pretty sure you're wrong on the no lynch. It's also quite likely that the mafia simply didn't want to take the chance of hammering a lynch because well... that's an invitation for being scrutinized, something mafia usually doesn't like. The only good thing to come out of it is that your zealousness reeks of your normal town play, so my best guess is that we actually came out ahead on this particular no lynch. By the way BC, during day 1 in PTP where you were town, you pushed for zodiac lists. In this game you shot down Chaoser's rank list (Which is essentially a zodiac list). Is there a good reason for this? Or is it just the more experienced player pool? | ||
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On June 29 2011 17:56 Scamp wrote: Um, Palmar? BC also pushed a Zodiac list in XLII when he was mafia. Then his team killed me night 1 and ran the game. Right, did not know that. I was just curious. (I didn't play in XLII) | ||
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On June 29 2011 19:04 Radfield wrote: Hammering the Viscera lynch would have been the most pro-town action taken yesterday. The lynch built towards 6/7 at times, then votes started going down all over the place, particularly on the easy target Deconduo. I find it very unlikely that mafia would shy away from hopping on the lynch in a no-flip set-up, unless the target was red. I know that. Doesn't change the fact that someone would call it out. Which is no problem if you're town, because you have nothing to hide. But it is a problem if you're scum. By the way, VisEyes is probably not scum. So I'd suggest we don't go after him now. | ||
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I am looking forward to this. | ||
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On June 29 2011 23:05 Caller wrote: Why Kurumi isn’t scummy Kurumi is a self-admitted not good at mafia player. That means he is more prone to making the typical scumslips that mafia would make. Either that or he would totally clam up like he did in PYP. Yet Kurumi hasn’t slipped up: if anything, he’s acting just as troll here as he is normally. He’s playing VERY aggressively, calling people out, not even pretending to be contributing, and etc. Mafia DON’T do this. Especially not good ones. And since he hasn’t slipped up in like 10000 posts, I think he’s either a normal townie, or a suicide bomber. Why BC is fishy: BC always has all the mafia by day 2. Unfortunately, he also usually dies by Day 2. BC hasn’t contributed much-well, he has contributed, but not in the sense that I’m talking about. He’s just acting… so damn fishy. I can’t pin anything on him because there’s nothing to pin him on, but he’s just acting so damn fishy that my gut says to keep an eye on him. more to come when I feel like it RoL just scumslipped You're probably right about Kurumi. I reached that conclusion myself. Btw, Viscera is not scum This game is easy, now we just kill, in no particular order RoL Radfield BC Fishball ILJ Chez Scamp Jackal Sandroba If not every mafia is dead by then we lynch in the following order Caller Amber VisceraEyes and Kurumi and I are the last people standing. I see no flaw in my plan, it is 100% scumproof and anyone that disagrees is scum. | ||
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meh, he should be shot anyway. | ||
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I presume his role required him to do something or submit something he failed to do. | ||
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That was just Kurumi being Kurumi right? Somehow thinking that because of GCQ's history of being mafia that he'd be one again, I think he explained that like two posts down. By the way, I totally dig Caller's case on ilovejonn. But I hate the fact that he roleclaimed. So I'm kind of torn on where to take this at the moment. ilovejonn is definitely one of the best targets if someone i feeling triggerhappy. | ||
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he's not doing that in rol's real time mafia, so I'm hanging him day 1 there for not tunneling me. By the way, where did all the discussion about radfield being mafia go? I think he's mafia. Also RoL said I was saying smart stuff so he's probably mafia too. | ||
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So, time to hang Fishball. ##Vote Fishball | ||
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So, I don't know how many cycles the game will last, or how long we can gamble our Coroner that may or may not exist will stay alive, but in my opinion he is more valuable than our cop, and if we have to choose between the two I'd rather give a coroner the chance of surviving longer. Of course, ideally we luck out and let Fishball get at least one more check before we kill him and sodomize his corpse, and the coroner will then take a look at his alignment. There is a chance though, a tiny workaround we can use to extend the checks and gain more information... hmm I have a plan. | ||
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Unless more really cool information presents itself I'm changing my mind, and now I want to hang rol. Also, I thought he was scum anyway for thinking I was saying clever stuff. ##Unvote ##RebirthofLegend Come on town, burn him! | ||
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On June 30 2011 18:29 Chezinu wrote: So, I was thinking. Yes, I do think about the game from time to time before posting. Let's say we have two DT roles or a mafia is faking a DT role. Wouldn't it be interesting if two DTs claimed on the same day? The mafia only having one KP can only kill one of us.. If we do in fact have two DTs and both claimed today, that would give town a lot of information. So without further delay: Question: + Show Spoiler + Do you guys think the other DT, if there is one should claim? The other DT should absolutely not claim. Get more reports and then we compare them later. I tend to do this... I am now the Emperor around here. You shall do my bidding. My bidding is to hang RoL. | ||
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On June 30 2011 22:03 Caller wrote: RoL, you should claim. This is also my bidding. | ||
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On June 30 2011 23:58 Jackal58 wrote: Perhaps I'm being naive or foolish but I'm going to take fishball at his word. GMarshal's plan for lynching the DT first revolved around preventing scum from making a false claim. He appeared to have enough support in his plan that I gotta believe Fishball is telling the truth. I can't see the scum team putting one of their own so close to a noose. There is a really good reason in this particular case for lynching RoL first. We can gamble on getting a ton of extra informaton, but only if you have faith in your Emperor. | ||
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On June 30 2011 23:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: As stated in this post, DT claiming is retarded, and from a lessor player I might consider making an exception based on lack of experience and confidence, but fishball obviously won't get that luxury. Claiming is so fucking INCREDIBLY bad. So if it was me who claimed, you'd make an exception and just admit you're mafia, but since it's fishball you're going to fight? | ||
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On July 01 2011 00:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Listen my Icelandic twin, doing this is stupid. Read what I wrote above, this is a gamble that won't pan out which is why we so heavily discouraged DT claims and even provided the exact way a DT should go about his successful role checks. Thing is, in general I agree with you and not fishball, he should in all honesty have pushed the case through analysis. But there are some other factors in this. And don't think for even one second I believe this somehow clears BC, hell no. But one of you is mafia, that's how much we know, so eventually both of you are going to die. The only reason I want you dead over Fishball, is that keeping him alive for more nights does one of two things. a) He's scum. As long as we make sure to take everything he says with a grain of salt, he is forced to lie and deceive until his death. If all he has is innocent reports and he doesn't end up dead in a night or two, he's going to hang b) He's really a DT, he still will dig up more information that we can use, and will have an extra night, or even two, to get more information. In addition, if he's truly a DT, the mafia will certainly either roleblock or kill him. If he claims roleblocked we just hang him, and that means one extra night where some other role isn't being blocked. If the mafia kills him, which I very much doubt, then they've done our work for us. 1 for 1 in any case. But killing you gives Fishball a chance to investigate, or lie, more. Both something that can be used further into the game. Killing Fishball simply means that we lose another day lynching you, as there is no way in hell the mafia will kill you as they know we're going to have to do it anyway the next day. I see no reason you should not hang tonight. | ||
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Fuck logic, hanging you is the Emperor's command. | ||
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On July 01 2011 02:42 Caller wrote: hurry up and claim then, let's hear your claim. maybe we'll get off you. Claim his role, or my throne? | ||
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On July 01 2011 02:56 Caller wrote: shit fuck guys my bad, Fishball and BC are both mafia. I totally lied about my abilities. I have TWO shots, not one. I was waiting for somebody to bumble into the trap I had laid, but I didn't expect BC to do it. I'm going to prove it by shooting BC tonight. That doesn't even make fucking sense. if BC is mafia and you're not, he's hardly stupid enough to lie about you telling the truth, fully knowing you could easily call him out on it. I say we kill and hang you all. | ||
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I have all faith you will prove your loyalty by shooting BC. Doesn't mean we won't lynch you. | ||
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Does your role determine your alignment? Is it completely unthinkable the mafia might have hidden an extra KP or two on one of their own? If this was a semi-open setup, then sure, you'd be clear. But for now, not a chance. But I'm waiting for tomorrow to determine which target is better for killing, you or Fishball | ||
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we hang and shoot them all. If we have any vigis in the game that have had the fucking sense to not shout their role on day 1, then please, help us off those guys. | ||
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Caller kills BC We hang Caller nightlol We hang Fishball after he leaves the latest investigations. What better than more wifom to enjoy? | ||
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I said pretty early last night that I did not think VisceraEyes is scum. What do you want, a post by post analysis trying to prove he's not? I've never played with Chaoser, if this is VE's scum play he has me fooled. I still think both ILJ and Radfield are terribly scummy, but there's no reason for me to point out why when it's quite obvious what this night and the following day will be about. You guys have three roleclaims in between you, some of you are definitely scum, so my opinion is to hang or kill you all. You last Fishball, because at least you can leave us with investigations. It's night now, and I'm mostly just waiting to see what happens at daybreak before breaking out any important points. I consider the only goal for me at this point is to make sure town doesn't get sidetracked and keeps it's focus on killing the three of you, and correctly responds to any new claims or information that might present itself. For the moment, I have a clear goal, so there's not a lot to say. | ||
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You could easily have pushed that lynch on RoL without revealing your role. A ton of us mentioned him being scummy, and failing to vote was really damn anti-town. | ||
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Both sides agree that VE is scum! | ||
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On July 02 2011 07:44 Caller wrote: No we lynch fishball because there is no friggin role reveal so we don't know if rol was town or not Get his results from tonight then lynch him. I'm almost positive he and bc were in this together. Nope, truthful or not, you're a better lynch after you shoot BC. I want another report for fishball, because the longer he stays alive the more chance we catch him lying. | ||
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I'm very good at counting. | ||
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Btw, I'm totally cool with killing ILJ, LSB and Radfield the second now. | ||
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I wanted Caller to shoot BC, and then I wanted to lynch Caller. Then I was going to offer myself up for lynch the next day, to hopefully buy Fishball an extra night. I am a Virgin, if I get lynched no one in town can die the following night. | ||
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1 kill is still unaccounted for. | ||
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Also, this game sucks, the only person I was sure was town (VE) emoed out like a little bitch. derp ##Vote Amber[LighT] | ||
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Sandroba is scum He's basically FoS'd a grand total of one person who was in my opinion pretty much obvious town. He hasn't done anything interesting all game. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba You guys should totally help me lynch him. LSB is scum too. If there is one more I'm not sure who it is. | ||
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you can hang me if you like, no one will die the following night. I read back to day one and day two a bit, this game has been such a ton of shit that it's kind of hard to actually get anything useful out of the thread, but I'll try to point out the links. BTW, I'm working under the assumption RoL was definitely mafia, which I think we can almost all agree on now. | ||
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On June 25 2011 19:04 sandroba wrote: I've thought a lot about this and came to the conclusion that mafia's optimal strat is going to be defending their team without fear, since no flips mean they keep hidden even after a scum lynch. Only reason I have a problem with this is that it feels kinda un-sandrobalike. He's smarter than this. Oh, and he's been very careful with his fingerpointing, something that starkly contrasts his townplay, which I normally think is both aggressive and accurate. And extra suspiciously (to me at least) he was pointing fingers at someone I thought at the time, and we now know, was town. Here's a little piece Fishball wrote on him day 1. + Show Spoiler + On June 28 2011 14:51 Fishball wrote: I normally don't like wasting my time picking out other player's post, but this is just getting ridiculous. Blanket statement with no content. Me and BC at least explained our arguments. What you're literally saying is, "John Doe is a nice guy, just look between his legs". I wonder how many times I've seen this. Regardless of what Chaoser's alignment and the content of his posts, your accusations alone does not make a strong case. Accuse a random lurker, lurker pops out and posts something, therefore said lurker is scum! "Is he town that needs to die or scum?" What kind of shit question is this? "Town that needs to die?" What, are you deconduo Junior?! Does the consensus shows a strong town read on deconduo? No. Then why are you asking deconduo specifically? What do YOU think of Chaoser besides the so called reason listed above? To summarize, your post is a filler post, with little to no content, faking activity and discussion with an agenda that does not help Town at all. Normally, I would just disregard these posts, assuming the players were just bad, but since this is an invitational game, I'm curious about your alignment. And back to Jackal while I'm at it. Like I said, I never named names. Those who defended me have made it obvious. Regardless, you also think I'm scummy - "as scummy as they get" that is. Alright, cool. Do you have a case about it? No? Another blanket statement? Is this the so called contribution and activity everyone was yearning for? I call this crap. Here is a comment from RoL's "analysis" of the game day 1. Sandroba- Posting nothing, supports LSB? Odd. Actually defends himself fairly well to fishballs accusations. Going in the gray area. I just don't like it, because if you think he actually defended himself, why is he not in the "town" part, and if he didn't, he should be in the "scum" part. Sounds to me like scum trying to be neutral about their partners. But yeah. The main reason for this thing is just that I don't feel sandroba is playing his town game, looks much more like some scumgame. He kind of FoS'd caller after caller's claim. I'm not sure what to make of it. But yeah, I'm pretty sure Sandroba is scum | ||
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So, do we gamble on LSB, Radfield and ILJ? fuck it, yes, let's do that. ##Unvote Sandroba ##Vote Caller | ||
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On July 03 2011 10:07 LSB wrote: Wait, so what is your role again? If you get lynched, for the following night, all town become invincible? pretty much. Apparently I'm the virgin and if you sacrifice me the town will be mourning the next night and no kill happens. I originally intended to use it the day after rol got lynched, to get an extra report from fishball. But since then a shitton of things happened, so I just went ahead with the mass-claim thing and claimed it. Mafia can off me without too much harm being done, and should the town ever need a kill-free night, I'm right there. | ||
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Being mad at Caller doesn't make you town. This game has been such a shit game though, like, perhaps you guys all know each other so well that you're cool with the way this thing is playing out, but really, it's goddamn impossible to work in the atmosphere that you guys create because you're fine with trolling. Like, I'm going to trust Caller's read back from day1 that Kurumi is town, do you know why? Because There is no fucking way of getting a read on him anyway. And how the hell do we determine Chez's alignment without having played 10 games with him or something? I mean, I'm thankful for being a part of this game of Veterans, and most of you guys are hilarious, but damn, you're not healthy for trying to win one of those games as town. I'm playing RTM at the same time and that game has like 200% less derp in the thread than this one, and much more valuable content. With that said, it's time to try one last push to salvage this game. More coming up. | ||
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ilovejonn sandroba Amber[LighT] LSB Chezinu Palmar Jackal58 Kurumi citi.zen This is the current player list. We know that RoL was mafia and it is possible that GMarshal was mafia, but I'm going to be working as if he wasn't one. If VE hadn't emoed out of the game like a little girl, then we'd have a mislynch now, but hey, who cares about that? So, we have to pick a guy from this list and hang him. We do have the option of stalling for a night by hanging me. | ||
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On July 03 2011 17:55 GMarshal wrote: Yes, please make unecessarily hurtful comments towards someone who was so enraged he quit tl mafia, that will just make any newer players reading the game just *itch* with excitement at getting to play with us "vets". If you don't have something nice to say its best to not say anything at all. /goes back to being dead You're right. Sorry, that was out of line. I just have a really bad temper towards people who give up, but yes, that was uncalled for. | ||
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Tomorrow, one of us will be dead, and we need to hit mafia. So how do we do that? There's basically two different ways we can go about it. a) We assume that LSB and ILJ are lying and we kill one of them. b) We trust them and use that to reduce the pool of players to kill from. I'm inclined to go with b. It's the simpler explanation and really, it's worth the gamble in a game where it seems ridiculously hard to analyse people and get them killed. So, all we have left is re-reading this thread and try to pick up reasons as to why people are innocent, and then kill into the list of people who look scmmy. ILJ: Confirmed LSB with a pretty good explanation of what happened, I'm going to gamble on him telling the truth. LSB: He had the right of it with Caller's death, again it's a gamble, but let's stick him into the nice people category, for a lack of other options. Kurumi: Just because Caller told me he's not scum. I'd have killed him day1 Palmar: If you don't believe it, just stall the game for a cycle by lynching me. So, assuming those are our town reads, let's have a look at some other people in the thread. Jackal58: I have no read on him, nothing. He just lurks his lurkery lurk away and leaves little to be analysed. But hey, we're in a retarded situation anyway, let's just trust him. citi.zen: He's got the chief investigator role. It's probably a town sided role, but it could just be Ace fucking with us and his role is really mafia sided. But I'm again willing to let people slide on really thin things this time, so yes, he gets to be not mafia too. And that leaves us with: Amber[Light] Chezinu Sandroba So, how do we pick a person and lynch into this list? I think my best bet is Sandroba, but Chezinu is also a good alternative, as he's scummy. But yeah, Sandroba is going to be my suggestion for a kill tomorrow, mostly based on the fact that he has provided nothing, claimed probably the easiest role to claim in this game, and has just been an all-around derp. Really good player, really bad performance. | ||
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On July 03 2011 18:01 GMarshal wrote: and sorry for snapping out at you, my post was a little harsh too, its just I feel like of late people are being abrasive for no particular reason. Anyway, I'll go back to being dead now. <3 No, it's completely cool. Things get heated in this game, I'm annoyed that with him we'd have a guaranteed mislynch, and thus he's significantly reduce our chances of winning. That's no reason to be a dick though. It's good someone is there to call us out on it when we cross the line. | ||
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On July 03 2011 21:50 Jackal58 wrote: Take Amber off your list Palmar. He's town. I guarantee it. We're in lylo. the mafia saw that comment to. If you know something we don't, now is the time to tell us. | ||
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"The mafia saw that comment too" | ||
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So we hang Chez and Sandroba. If the scum isn't dead by then we kill Kurumi. | ||
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On July 04 2011 22:16 Kurumi wrote: Yeah,whatever You want. I think Chez is null read,but whatever. I think you are null read. But hey, it's just by exclusion. We gamble on LSB/ILJ being cool. We trust that Amber is town I am town (or you can lynch me, if you don't trust that) And Citi.zen is probably town So, we kill one of you, Chez and sandroba. I like sandroba and chez both over you. | ||
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So everyone is town. Whatever ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba | ||
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On July 05 2011 01:54 LSB wrote: For everyone, I've provided this list. I have bolded the things I feel are too convenient ilovejonn- Coroner sandroba- No claim LSB- JOAT Palmar- Virgin citi.zen- Chief Investigator Chezinu- Vanilla Town Amber[LighT]- Mason Kurumi- Veteran Medic Sandroba- Generally mafia don't like to claim until the very end in order to see what other people are doing. Palmar- A weird role that hasn't seen much play in TL Mafia. It through me off guard since it didn't seem like a role Ace would actually use. Amber[LighT]- Well, until Amber posts his PM conversation with Jackal, he will always be suspicious in my eyes Kurumi- Mafia generally like to claim roles that can explain why they are alive. A role like a veteran is a good claim as then people won't wonder why you are alive. Jackal would never say he's confirmed 100% unless he was sure. If you don't trust my claim, then just hang me | ||
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no matter their alignment (I checked with host when I received my role). | ||
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It's now 5v3 worst case, but yes, it'll be 4v3 tomorrow if you lynch me, as no one will be able to die during the night, town or scum. So if it makes you feel better, do it. | ||
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I don't know, this game is such a huge pile of derp so I kind of decided to just go fuck it and apply occam's razor to everything in it, assuming people said the truth in their claims instead of trying to question or look for them in the claims. I still prefer killing sandroba. I mean, I have a problem with your claim Kurumi, a veteran medic is way OP and I don't believe for a second that such a role exists in the game, I've been ignoring it because I assume you're lying, but also lying because you're trying to discourage the mafia to hit you. But you also could be trying to fake a claim that looks like the mafia isn't hitting you so it explains you not dying mr. scumcop. That'd explain the missing doc save on RoL on night 2 too. My vote stays on sandroba. You say it's between chez and sandroba, well chez got reported green by LSB, who might be leading us all into a terrible death, but.... whatever. Sandroba is my vote. | ||
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But even if I believe you, any scum team I come up with at the moment includes sandroba. I wrote a little piece on him a little while back, and I think he should be the one hanging tonight, as he's my best bet for scum, no matter how I look at it. Everything I do is a gamble at the moment, I just feel my odds are best with going after Sandroba. | ||
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Anyway, I don't think you're clear, but I still think Sandroba should die. | ||
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but you're dying anyway. | ||
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On July 05 2011 08:36 sandroba wrote: That was a compliment on your scum play btw. You will not get away with it this time. I should compliment you for your scum play. You haven't really slipped at all. There is nothing in your posts I can highlight and yell "look, scum!" It's just the overall posting style that I find incriminating. | ||
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But they did that, and Caller derp'd. | ||
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I guess it's no wonder though, as England and France have quarreled and allied so much in the past. Did you know that only one pair of nations has actually fought more wars between themselves than France and England? And that's of course Denmark and Sweden, which hate each other. Well, most of the time. Strangely enough Swedish people don't like people living in Skania, so they want to dig that part of the country away and give it back to Denmark. There's even a website dedicated to the movement of digging away the Skanians. I understand their cause though, as no one can understand what the fuck people from Skania are saying. It's kinda weird really. The Danish always sound like they have a potato stuck in their throat, so despite learning Danish for 4 years in school, I don't understand spoken Danish, although I can read it. However, due to the similarity of the languages, I can mostly understand spoken Norwegian, at least the people that live in Oslo and southern Norway. Norway, however, is not a part of the European Union. They are stockpiling their oil money. I think it's cool as I think the European Union is still working on broken foundations. How do you share a common currency, if you're not willing to transfer money between areas? Historically, whenever countries fall into recession, one of the strongest weapons they have in their arsenal is to simply drop the value of their currency. This is really just a way to lower salary in the country, and thus boost export, which is really important if you plan to raise back an economy from shambles. This is the reason that despite the Economic crisis hitting Iceland much harder than any other nation, in terms of debt per capita, Iceland is recovering faster, as the ISK is valued at only half the price it used to be. The Irish and the Greek are not as lucky, they cannot devalue their currencies so they're forced into austerity measures, which in turn causes turmoil and only serves to further weaken the economy. The ISK is also the currency in the video game EvE online, I doubt that it's a coincidence, as CCP is based in Iceland. Their headquarters are really nice, I once went there for a few beers and to watch some promotion material. They're cool guys, highly successful. It's hard to believe for foreigners, but in such a small economy, a company like CCP has actually become a mayor player. I really like the smaller game companies. Some guys from Sweden did this game called Magicka, I'm having a shitton of fun playing it at the moment. The only problem is I keep getting "good" ideas and blowing myself to shits and pieces, which is pretty standard behavior for me in video games, I always have to try playing the alternative route, do something non-standard. You could say that's my meta-game in video games. Sandroba however is playing this game much less aggressively than I'd expect from him, so I think he's scum. Can we just hammer it now? | ||
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On July 06 2011 17:08 Kurumi wrote: Did we win? You scum bro? You scum? ILJ, Chez and Krumi scum team? | ||
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On July 06 2011 20:39 Kurumi wrote: YES WE WON THIS SHIT yeah, now we just have to lynch you. | ||
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It was an analysis on Sandroba. | ||
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*reaches out his pinky* | ||
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On July 07 2011 13:34 Chezinu wrote: That makes no sense.. It would be a waste. He could rolecheck me again now that the lawyer isn't here and get the same result. But then that would be wasteful as well. I think it would be better if he rolechecks the questionable blue roles. Who do you think is scum Chez? | ||
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ILJ, Chez, me and Citi.zen? | ||
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Well, assuming Jackal isn't a jackass you're clear Amber. And because citi.zen's role is most likely town, and for other reasons, I think he's town. (I went back and compared Radfield's posting on day 1 to his town posting in PYPI, and I changed my mind about it being scummy). Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But whatever, unless the mafia has a hidden KP I'm killing Chez first. ILJ confirmed LSB's role so technically he oughta be pro-town. But he could just as well do that as mafia., just like citi.zen too. Anyway ##Vote Chezinu | ||
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On July 08 2011 08:07 Ace wrote: [/b]Chezinu will be lynched soon. Should I bother staying up for this? 1am already. | ||
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But Ace is taunting me with this flip. | ||
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Amber got kind-of-confirmed by Jackal Radfield/citi.zen have a very pro-town role and I just don't think their posting is scummy. And that leaves you, from my point of view. | ||
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you're not the one I'm going to have to convince if this goes on until tomorrow. I need to go to work tomorrow, it's too late, good night. | ||
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On July 08 2011 12:06 Chezinu wrote: Have you ever thought that I had two bombs on Palmar and citi.zen that is activated if I'm lynched? muhahaha lol Chez. Anyway, so much for staying up! Time for work. | ||
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On June 30 2011 06:07 Chezinu wrote: So is this what we have so far? RebirthOfLeGenD ilovejonn GMarshal sandroba Amber[LighT] LSB deconduo Caller Palmar BloodyC0bbler Fishball Radfield Chezinu VisceraEyes Scamp GGQ Jackal58 Kurumi But I don't think you are town | ||
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On July 08 2011 08:07 Ace wrote: soon. ™ | ||
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Someone needs to write a book on how to read Chezinu. Ilovejonn/JeeJee is going down tomorrow. I don't care who dies tonight, he's the one that gets lynched. | ||
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Accusing you based on something you did not say, but subbing into end-game is probably really, really hard, especially as mafia. And yes, the window to confirm me came and went with LSB shooting Kurumi, now we cannot lynch me and still lynch you. Whoever is left alive will just have to hammer it. I think I've played very pro-town this entire game, probably the only scum that got caught on an attempt at analysis was me accusing Sandroba. I don't know, with you in (I think you are a stronger player than ILJ) the entire thing gets turned upside down. And we had ILJ pretty much figured out. But yes, what will happen is that the remaining person of citi.zen and amber will hammer it. I'm voting for you as soon as day breaks. | ||
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On July 09 2011 00:53 JeeJee wrote: Listen, if a single townie votes for someone other than a mafia, it's insta-loss, right? What do you have to lose by waiting for a bit? I am not hammering my vote on you right away anymore so calm down for a bit. I need to re-read the thread first... You can re-read the thread. I have done it more than once, always reaching the same conclusion that ILJ was scummy as hell. He's gotten by on the fact that he confirmed LSB, which is pro-town, but not enough to clear him. I am town and I am voting for you, take all the time you need to re-read, defend and cast your vote, but I'm voting for you. | ||
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We just need citi.zen to understand the same thing. | ||
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Important posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=11#204 BC calls ILJ out for being lol On June 29 2011 02:57 Caller wrote: also, ilovejonn is mafia RoL's Analysis: I used this to grab Sandroba... it's how he says things. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10036095 Exactly what I'd do. Accuse my fellow scum, but make sure I suggested lynching town. On July 01 2011 06:06 sandroba wrote: I think I made it pretty clear that I think VisceraEyes is scum. It made sense that RoL was also scum since he refused to lynch VisceraEyes, thus that made you DT for real. Caller also defended VisceraEyes and was the main reason he did not get lynched day1 AND has being claiming a fuckton of roles and getting away with it. I'm actually not even bothering to respond to all his shit since 90% of it are lies. I'm 100% confident he's either SK or Scum. As for LSB I'm not sure anymore, but I felt like he was town all game. ilovejonn I have no clue to be honest. More scum having null read on someone that was very much up for scrutinity at the time. On July 01 2011 12:11 ilovejonn wrote: Sorry I had work the whole day and a meeting, was very busy since tmr is Canada Day. I've caught up with the thread but honestly skipped a few of the last few pages because it was just Caller and Fishball shouting at each other. I'll be back when Day comes. And for the record Ace says I didn't vote in the vote count, but I did. Extra emphasis... "look guys, I DID help you kill mafia". On July 01 2011 17:29 citi.zen wrote: As it happens, I also like Fishball's scum list of VisceraEyes, LSB and ilovejonn. I would add sandroba and Kurumi to it - both have done little more but spam filler posts since the start of the game. citi.zen telling you you're scum. On July 05 2011 07:27 Kurumi wrote: Let's look,Fishball strongly believes that LSB is scum.. LSB shot RoL Night 1. RoL did not lie about his role and I think he DID NOT lie about his medic protect. Medic is either mafia or we have something cool over here. So let's do this. ilovejonn claimed to check GGQ's body on Night 0.. He got killed by mafia. Night ??? Check was deconduo,who was obvious Vigilante... but there's a treat: he SPECIFIES that GGQ was town alligned,but does not give that information about decon.. Night ??? Check was Scamp,and his body was missing.. Now the fun part. Somehow between those he checked RoL's body which turned out to be Mafia Janitor... So let's think a bit. Both Scamp and GGQ were mafia kills. They could EASILY hide those bodies. Why didn't they hide both? One-shot ability? Why Scamp? If Mafia would indeed have Mafia Janitor they had cleaned up GGQ's body easily. So You know how it goes? RoL was Mafia Coroner. He gave ilovejonn his checks to back up the claim. ilovejonn is scum. He does not specify when the check happened. He tries to frame LSB. He tries to convince us that Mafia Janitor existed. ##vote ilovejonn VOTE HIM,WE ARE CLOSE TO VICTORY GUYS,MAFIA IS BETWEEN CHEZ AND SANDROBA NOW Kurumi telling you you're scum. So, here is a list of the people who have told you you're scum. Chezinu, Caller, Fishball, citi.zen, Palmar, Kurumi, Amber Really, the only way forward for me at this point is to go with you. I wanted to lynch you day one. I also wanted to lynch Radfield, but that one never took off at all. I want you to die because a lot of better players than me say you should die. And because I thought you were scum anyway. Sorry for using "you" liberally, when I'm mostly talking about your predecessor. You have actually put up an admirable defense. | ||
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Jackal isn't dumb enough to leave behind a message like "Amber is 100% townie" if he's not damn fucking sure. And I am not mafia, for obvious reasons. | ||
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That's the sorta thing I'd expect. I have no meta on him, never played with either of them before, but apparently Radfield's town play looks very much like it did this game (I didn't believe it so I checked PYPI). I just glanced over some of radfield's posts withouth much context, but he was doing the same blanket-statement-style that he did in this one. Everyone else seemed to be pretty content with his town posting I have no idea bout the hit on rol, but I guess that'll just have to be revealed. I'm answering questions because you're nice, but I'm not changing my mind. | ||
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I made up my mind a long while ago. ##Vote JeeJee gg. | ||
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Btw Jackal, you totally made me go from "We got this" to "holy shit... is he telling the truth?". But when in doubt I generally just stick to my guns and listen to what other people say Well played. | ||
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When I'm uncertain I listen to other people. Half the town had called ILJ scum, and no one had called citi.zen/ILJ scum. | ||
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On July 09 2011 12:42 Ace wrote: Also citi.zen made a great claim that was hard to deal with. He was an unconfirmed power role that made you guys believe he was confirmed and JeeJee was the only one to question it. What citi.zen done is use the Scum information advantage along with his brain: no one knew that RoL dying is what made everyone else flip after except Scum. So citi.zen fake claimed a role that might be in the game. It was a good play. Then JeeJee said it can't be in the game because RoL survived a mimic shot from LSB. This was also smart because really why didn't anyone stop and think how the hell RoL lived? Once GGQ was outted as a dead medic this should have been hammered home. JeeJee correctly guessed there is a Scum Doctor. Of course citi.zen just rode Palmar to victory after finally offing the only confirmed innocent - Amber[Light]. It was a fun game to observe but at the same time some of you have to work on your scum hunting skills - a lot. JeeJee and citi.zen replaced into the game and showed more thought about the overall picture, did better reading and actually used what was given to them and what came out in the thread to try to win more effectively than half the people playing. Shameful because some of you that played in the game should have done at least a credible job of putting some simple stuff together. RoL surviving a hit and LSB dying flipping innocent should have been a big wtf happened that night. Caller, BC and Kurumi just show that lying to Town when you're a Townie is beyond stupid. What a clusterfuck of nonsense. and why does that matter? Being innocent =/= being right. Hmm I don't think citi.zen was ever considered confirmed by anyone but Kurumi. As presented in both the cases by Amber and myself, ILJ had slipped up several times over the course of the game. So what do I do when he gets replaced by someone that suddenly starts making sense? In my opinion, and this is obviously because of my own inexperience, but in my opinion I simply had to read back and take a gutshot. Now of course it was obvious to every observer that I was going for the wrong target, but to me it wasn't, and given Amber's very strong case against JeeJee, I just went with it. Yes, I did read JeeJee's defense, and it almost turned me around. And yes, of course being innocent doesn't mean they're right. But to me it wasn't obvious which of them was the scum, so taking a look at other people's opinions is a good way. They reached the conclusion with an honest mind, so why shouldn't I. I used the same kind of logic to catch Wiggles in RTM. I thought he was scum but couldn't put my finger on it, and with only like 2-3 hours till the lynch there was no time to build a case. So I just threw together 10 lines of stuff, and then credited like 4 other townies who had FoS'd him at some point. Very often the collective thought is better than your individual one, or that's my experience. Wiggles was the mafia Godfather. But yeah, this sucks, and I'm sorry. | ||
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I usually give exactly that a thought, but what was the scum (doesn't matter if it's JeeJee or citi.zen) going to do anyway? Amber, just like myself, had made it perfectly clear that he wanted to kill off JeeJee in the morning. I called for his opinion in the night to make sure he wasn't having second thoughts, cause I was. And trust me, I read it. I may have read it with an incredibly biased mind, but I always read. The thing about RoL's hit still bugged me, but I assumed it simply had some other explanation. I read it and promptly decided to ignore it. Yes, I still have this mindset of where I'm not sure I just stick to my guns and soldier on. I probably should drop that mindset. Anyway, I wish we hadn't gotten so many stupid town kills, cause we really could've used less derp to guide this town. | ||
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I wish you had joined the game without writing that post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10168502 Because once you started gunning for citi.zen instead of me, I simply looked at it the way "oh, he thinks I'm easier to convince than citi.zen/amber, and since he's scum he doesn't really care who he kills" To me it felt like you were just grasping at straws, trying to get anyone to believe you. Obviously you were, but in a completely different way than I expected. | ||
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I was never going to change my mind after that. | ||
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On July 09 2011 13:24 JeeJee wrote: Was my rebuttal of his argument not good enough? Or since his post you just kinda TLDR'd all of my posts? Be honest, really I don't care, just wanna know lol I did not, I actually went back and found some interesting bits on my own. Little things like Radfield not committing hard on the RoL lynch. this thing here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10105934 And of course the fact that I wanted to kill him back on day one, but it never took off. I had Radfield on my shit-list all through the game. I just... also had ILJ on my shitlist, and everyone seemed to agree with me on that. | ||
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On July 09 2011 07:22 JeeJee wrote: ILJ was wrong when he said he checked during night 0. also didn't help your case. | ||
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I'll admit, I think you somewhere said that citi.zen wanted sandroba shot and not lynched, and that got me thinking... erm... what? Anyway, I'm not good enough at this game to make last-minute game-saving plays. If the derpfest that was town needed to hinge on me saving the game then I guess it was a lost case anyway. | ||
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I have absolutely no faith in my scum-reads, which could be a really bad thing, but after repeatedly shooting cops in PTP I kind of stopped believing my self. If I voted citi.zen and lost, people would be like "you fucking idiot" and if I voted JeeJee and lost no one could say a thing because half the town said he was mafia anyway. I can admit that this really mattered. This is a stupid and shallow point of view, instead of playing to win, playing not to get blamed. I seriously need to work on my game, I get so much stuff wrong. | ||
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I think most everyone had RoL on their shortlist for scum, which was why it was so easy to turn around the lynch dt first policy when fishball claimed. | ||
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Basically asking how to improve. | ||
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Like, you don't bother to establish your innocence at all. | ||
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The mistake was ultimately mine, I simply did not have the balls to make an independent decision. Can we get a link to the mafia QT? There are some things that I really, really had a problem with though. My big mistakes were getting caught up in a useless argument with VisceraEyes on day one, and then obviously the end-game. But here are a few that really had a detrimental effect on town. a) BC's claim. The idea was novel, I really like the fact that his read on Fishball was so strong that he was willing to lie to confirm him. But man... when you lie as town, you better make damn fucking sure that you cannot get caught, cause that's when the shitstorm happens. I learned this lesson in PTP. b) Caller's trolling and repeated lying. Sure, I can get the idea behind claiming one-shot vigilante in order to avoid roleblocks, but why the hell did you not just say "sorry, my bad" after killing BC. I'm almost sure that you'd have gotten away with it. Everyone knew then that BC had been lying, even if it was for the good of town. So we basically wasted a lynch because you felt the need to lie again. c) Kurumi/ILJ/Chezinu. All of those guys did very little to establish their innocence, at least in my opinion. Instead of trolling and throwing one-liners, then I'd really appreciate it if people would attempt to look pro-town. I wasted effort going after Kurumi, and Chezinu got cleared by a confirmed innocent, and he STILL got lynched, only based on the fact that he was scummy as hell anyway. ILJ was just... not beneficial to town. If JeeJee had been playing from the start we'd have rocked this game, easily, but ILJ did nothing to show he was innocent early on. VE/Deconduo got themselves modkilled. That was pretty stupid. Anyway, I agree with everything you said except the conclusion Kurumi. Town had at least a very reasonable chance to win this game. We fucked up repeatedly and didn't make any massive game-changing plays really. Yes, the mafia didn't have to do much to achieve the win, but at least citi.zen's claim was well thought out. Kudos to Sandroba for that... I told you he was a good player not playing to his standard Any number of things could've turned this into the town's favor, we just kept fucking up. a) Caller simply claiming the kill on BC b) VisceraEyes not getting himself modkilled (I was 100% sure on him being town) c) Me not fucking up the end-game d) Chezinu actually put effort into proving his innocence e) ILJ doing the same, or JeeJee having played from much earlier f) ILJ not screwing up his roleclaim g) BC not lying to confirm Fishball I think even just one of those things would've turned the game into town's favour. | ||
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On July 10 2011 09:17 Fishball wrote: You could only have kept me alive if you were lynched the Night before in place of RoL, which is not possible. Well, yeah, I could've gotten myself lynched and bought you another night, that's what I was saying. Then you guys could've lynched rol the next night, and you had another investigation. | ||
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On July 10 2011 20:59 sandroba wrote: I'm dissapointed that no one proved I'm scum and lynched me out of the blue =( As I said, I couldn't quite put my finger on it, so there was not pbp analysis. I just _knew_ you were scum. | ||
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