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On June 29 2011 02:43 VisceraEyes wrote:##Vote: Chaoser........oh wait.... ##UnvoteWell, I came in to a pretty dire situation. Unless I can come up with some sort of contribution to appease you guys, I'm dead. No pressure. Let's see... FoS Palmar for advocating the vigs to abuse their power...claiming it's of the utmost importance to do so, but simultaneously.... Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 18:16 Palmar wrote:On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote:
Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable.
If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP. Now, I don't like deconduo more than the rest of you, but I can't let bad ideas slip by. You see, deconduo claims to be a vigilante. This means that we have two options that make sense. a) We don't believe him and lynch him for roleclaiming b) We believe him and hope he uses his KP well. I don't know how much people actually bother to read everything brought up, but controlling vigi shots when we have no idea who it is controlling them doesn't make any sense to me at all. That way the mafia can influence the choice of targets, and thus take away the unique aspect of vigi shots that they are more likely (by a little but) than any other kill in the game to hit mafia, from a purely statistical point of view. So what's it going to be? We're not directing Dec's shot, so either we let him live and make his own decisions, or we just hang him. I have no problems with simply killing him. Simply killing...one of the most important roles (by your estimation alone) in the game. That's a pretty big contradiction right there, my friend. ##Vote: PalmarI refuse to vote to lynch deconduo as he's claimed vig and I feel he should get a chance to prove it. Also I'm not going to vote for myself. Anyone who says I'm "not voting with town" is scum and should be shot to death by Palmar's vigs.
Nope, no contradiction, you're just reading things that aren't there.
The fact that I want vigis to shoot early and shoot often does not somehow mean I believe every stupid uncalled vigi claim that pops up.
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On June 29 2011 04:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
The idea in this game isn't to kill as many people as we can. I don't disagree with the notion that lurkers need to be dealt wit...quickly if possible.
The idea is to get everyone active. It's to not have to worry about lurkers in the first place. That way, vigi shots are better spent on scum. I agree with you that Vigis are going to be important in this game, but NOT by shooting as early and often as they can. I feel like this claim is anti town, and I hope you hang for promoting it.
I don't think I said vigis should shoot lurkers exclusively.
Vigis should shoot people they think are scum.
Also, read my explanation on why vigis should should often, it's statistically viable, especially in a game that has less information than usual.
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I don't like either of the lynch targets at the moment.
Chaoser/VisEyes is being voted for not contributing, but well... he got replaced out of the game because he didn't have time, and VisEyes just came in.
deconduo's actions make no sense at all, not as mafia and not as town. It's astonishing he did what he did, but my best bet at the moment is to put it down to terrible town play. We can always lynch him tomorrow if the mafia doesn't end him.
So, in my opinion we need to think up a new lynch.
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On June 29 2011 04:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 04:15 Palmar wrote:
I don't like either of the lynch targets at the moment.
Chaoser/VisEyes is being voted for not contributing, but well... he got replaced out of the game because he didn't have time, and VisEyes just came in.
deconduo's actions make no sense at all, not as mafia and not as town. It's astonishing he did what he did, but my best bet at the moment is to put it down to terrible town play. We can always lynch him tomorrow if the mafia doesn't end him.
So, in my opinion we need to think up a new lynch. I don't think it was for lack of contributing so much as what the little Chaoser contributed was. Some shitty list which could be used to feign actually being active, and then VisceraEyes attacking you when you appear pro town. I was actually going to suggest switching to Kurumi as well until I saw VisceraEyes first contribution attacking town players.
Is chaoser honestly that stupid. Like I don't think anyone in this game really thinks that posting lists somehow counts for contribution. I'd much rather kill Kurumi and see what VisEyes is up to. Trust me VisEyes has a bit of a thing for trying to lynch me and he really likes to misread stuff.
Though, in all honesty, I want to lynch Radfield. I think that'd be our best lynch today.
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On June 29 2011 04:55 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 04:41 Palmar wrote:On June 29 2011 04:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:15 Palmar wrote:
I don't like either of the lynch targets at the moment.
Chaoser/VisEyes is being voted for not contributing, but well... he got replaced out of the game because he didn't have time, and VisEyes just came in.
deconduo's actions make no sense at all, not as mafia and not as town. It's astonishing he did what he did, but my best bet at the moment is to put it down to terrible town play. We can always lynch him tomorrow if the mafia doesn't end him.
So, in my opinion we need to think up a new lynch. I don't think it was for lack of contributing so much as what the little Chaoser contributed was. Some shitty list which could be used to feign actually being active, and then VisceraEyes attacking you when you appear pro town. I was actually going to suggest switching to Kurumi as well until I saw VisceraEyes first contribution attacking town players. Is chaoser honestly that stupid. Like I don't think anyone in this game really thinks that posting lists somehow counts for contribution. I'd much rather kill Kurumi and see what VisEyes is up to. Trust me VisEyes has a bit of a thing for trying to lynch me and he really likes to misread stuff. Though, in all honesty, I want to lynch Radfield. I think that'd be our best lynch today. Sure You want to lynch Radfield scum,You killed GMarshal now You need to get rid of Radfield. Classic. I might contribute but since noone's making a case against me (just "herp derp he is trolling,so is Caller but he is scum Caller is not" nonsense) Also, thirteen wait for another transmission.
I wish I was a vigi so I could shoot you.
The attitude "I'm not contributing until I'm forced to" just enrages me.
If you think you're a funny troll, consider yourself successful, I genuinely mad at you.
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See, I'm so mad I forget random words.
EBWOP
I am genuinely mad at you.
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##Unvote Radfield
##Vote Kurumi
For reasons stated in my analysis and following posts. And also, cause if he can't be arsed playing, I can't be arsed playing with him.
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On June 29 2011 05:22 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:05 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On June 29 2011 04:59 Kurumi wrote:
Well,people accuse me without any case going on and want force me to speed up things I am doing right now,I was busy breadcrumbing my role,let me work seriously now,because this is heading ridiculously wrong. You have 1.5 hours to produce something useful then I switch my vote. Good luck with that. He'll herp derp one liners until the end of the game if he lasts that long regardless of his alignment. He will find a way to fos everybody before the game is over. This is how he has acted in all 3 games I've been in with him. It's very frustrating.
So let's just get rid of him?
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It's simple math, and even with a vigi kill, mafia kill and lynch every night, plus 1-2 one shot abilities, the game will last at least 4 cycles (probably more) which is more than enough for any analysis you might want to do.
Vigilantes are killers, yes. But hopefully their shots are educated guesses and they have higher statistical chance of hitting mafia than any other kill in the game.
Wanting to not use that tool, would be... insane
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On June 29 2011 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 22:20 Palmar wrote:On June 28 2011 22:13 Kurumi wrote:On June 28 2011 22:11 Palmar wrote:On June 28 2011 22:09 Kurumi wrote:
Palmar,You were the guy who said mass shooting is acceptable in this game. It is not. It is. I forgot for a while You're scum,sorry. I probably shouldn't bother trying to explain this to you, but some of the vigs might read this and actually get the idea. assume a hypothetical situation, 7town vs 2mafia. assume worst case scenario, town mislynches every time. there is a vigi in game. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town cycle 2 5v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 3 3v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) Game over. In this scenario, three out of the 5 kills it takes to end the game, were town sided kills. Now let's assume we have a batshit insane compulsive vigilante. cycle 1 7v2 lynch (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) maf kill (can only hit town) cycle 2 4v2 lync (can hit town or mafia) vig shot (can hit town or mafia, but not vigilante) Game over. In this scenario, the town gets 4 of the 5 kills it takes to end the game. Vigilantes should be shooting the first night, and every night there after, especially in a game where we don't know the role-setup and the flips don't mean anything, so any clever mafia is just going to keep random distance between all it's members. My problem with your 'statistically viable scenario' is that it assumes that a vig is still present after Cycle 1 in both scenarios. You claimed that it was a worst-case scenario, why not erase all the vigs after the first cycle? Especially since you're putting such importance on them. It seems to me that Mafia could luck into killing a vig AS WELL AS town could unknowingly lynch a different vig. THAT would be worst-case scenario. This math is absolutely illogical and means absolutely nothing. Anyone swayed by it in THIS particular game is here by a fluke. Palmar is talking nonsense and should be lynched. Today.
Sure but then you end up in the same scenario as before.
Like, I'm not going to argue for my "Vigis should shoot every night" anymore. I've gotten the message across, I believe it's the best scenario for town, and it's statistically good for town.
But sure, if that's all you've got, then by all means, keep playing badly.
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Btw, I totally don't agree with Hesmyrr about lynching the guilty report first.
So, while you can pretend it's a scumtell, it no longer applies to the player playing.
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On June 29 2011 05:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not saying don't use the tool Palmar, that's not what I'm saying at all.
What I'm saying is that we shouldn't just have them blindly shooting every single cycle just because they can. It WILL hurt town as they WILL hit more town than scum. Save Vig shots for people who are clearly and obviously scummy. Granted, you won't get as much of that in this PARTICULAR game, but just having them fire at random people every opportunity would be........insane.
Well of course you shoot scummy people, it's only me who can shoot DTs and get away with it.
And no shot will be random, they will be educated guesses made by people with the town's best interest at heart.
Remember, this is an invite only game with people Ace wanted playing in his game. Mostly Veterans and good players. In theory, there should be 16 better players in the game than you and I. I trust them to make an educated guess.
Now go back and find some actual scum.
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On June 29 2011 05:59 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:54 Palmar wrote:
Btw, I totally don't agree with Hesmyrr about lynching the guilty report first.
So, while you can pretend it's a scumtell, it no longer applies to the player playing. You had Your first post to straighten it up. Now You're just being wishy-washy and advocating Yourself.
Okay, damn, I missed that opportunity, now I'm contradicting myself.
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Seriously.
Is that the best idea you guys could come up with?
I can't believe I'm waking up at 3 am to do this shit. But this recent garbage train on Amber is just as bad if not worse than what we already have. We have a fuckton of valid targets for tonight, why not go with some of them?
quickly, let's bandwagon something that isn't a bad kill
##Unvote Kurumi
##Vote ilovejohn
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The deadline is in 30 minutes guys. ILJ, Kurumi and LSB are all valid kills. VisEyes is wrong, but there isn't much to paint him scum at the moment. Deconduo is just nuts, and Amber was not the alternative train I as hoping for.
Can we please reconsider?
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On June 29 2011 09:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
2) Suggesting that Town KP not be used tonight. There's literally NO reason not to use Town KP tonight. We'll find out if there's SK out there when there's unclaimed deaths. This reads like a scum that is afraid of getting vig'd because he knows he doesn't plan on posting much. Lurkers gon' die, that's been made abundantly clear.
hahahaha
You're pro.
Your entire argument against me was some stupid comment on how townies should not be shooting tonight.
(Pro-tip, vigis should absolutely be shooting whoever they think is the scummiest target)
And then you write this bullshit against Amber?
So, if a player suggests we should be shooting, he's scum. And if a player suggests we hold our shots, he's scum.
Ultimately it's the vigis own decision, all I did was point out that the vigi kill is statistically the best kill we have, so not using it would be a shame.
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15 minutes until the deadline.
fuck this shit, by my own logic no lynching is bad.
##Unvote ilovejohn
##Vote VisceraEyes
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he also makes sense because he's scummy as hell.
Chaoser was really scummy, but VisEyes has mostly been wrong. Don't feel like it's much of a scumtell though.
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just hammer it, in a game with this limited information every lynch will be doubtful.
and at least there is a tiny chance this kill is mafia, there is no chance the mafia kill is mafia.
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he's 1 vote away, I added mine
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EPT
