EPTTL Mafia XL
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
A peculiar type of Man Kuze is my name. In this game, I will start all of my posts with haikus. Enjoy ^^ On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote: So...you asked a question so you could be lynched day one...alright...that makes sense. (note the sarcasm) Either you give a legitimate, straight reason to ask this sort of question as townie, or you clearly are just trying to save your butt after having messed and shown your role as mafia. Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him. He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game. Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion. Also, I am schwasted, so this may not make a lot of sense. (White Russians are the best!) But. If you are new to mafia, welcome. A quick word of advice: Think before you act. Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily. a 40 man game is much more about reasoning than putting pressure on someone. And the only reason you would vote this early is to put pressure on someone. Things to note about this game: Detectives instead of watchers: This gives us hard checks (with a few exceptions) on who is scum/town. Town needs to know this information, and we need to keep it out of the hands of mafia. For new players, this is where crumbing comes in. Crumbing is leaving clues about what you want to say. The best crumbs will be deciphered by us and not by scum. However, crumbs can be used a different way, in that you leave crumbs no one can decipher and then reveal multiple crumbs later. This is good if you are new because often times no one can understand your crumbs anyways since you don't have experience. Vigilantes: Need to not use your shots immediately. You are MUCH more likely to hit a civilian than scum at first, and also more likely to caus confusion. Those are the two most important roles this game. Regarding discussion: Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me: If a miller is roleblocked, what does he return to investiagtion? Anyways, many good ideas floating around for a newbie game :p Keep up the good work | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
cherubel wrote: Also, what reason do you have to defend him? I didn't even see this. If you use this argument again I will be sure you die. If Townies don't defend other townies from bullshit attacks, this game will end quite rapidly, and not in our favor. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 05 2011 15:39 iGrok wrote: I didn't even see this. If you use this argument again I will be sure you die. If Townies don't defend other townies from bullshit attacks, this game will end quite rapidly, and not in our favor. I forgot a Haiku with this, so EBWOP Haiku: Human Decency Like the tide to a mud crab Rare, yet so vital | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 05 2011 15:44 Treadmill wrote: Is it really too hasty if you plan on (probably) changing your vote? I'm honestly asking. Also, you sound like you're aomewhat experienced, is that right? [/i]Back, Forth, Pendulum; As Time keeps ticking forward. The Record remains.[/i] | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 05 2011 16:11 heist wrote: How do you know how many mafia there are? I thought role counts are not disclosed. Lead by example The most important questions Must be answered now If you have a question regarding the game setup, ask it like so: How does Mafia KP work? Is it #/2, a fixed number, etc? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Olol. No haiku this time. Pardon the wino in the corner. Yes, it is green and not blue. EBWOP: Change to green. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote: What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill Two threads, Two places Vote in one, not the other Or you may mislead. Just fyi, voting in the Thread and not in the voting thread is considered scummy at higher levels of play. I will of course excuse you since you are new, but I'm trying to help you out here - if you're going to vote, then vote, but make sure you know what you're doing. Make sure you read my post. Also, again with the bullshit McCarthyism - This is VERY anti-town, and if you're a menace to town, promoting anti-town play, its in our best interest to remove you from the game if we have no strong mafia targets. tl;dr: CTFO + Show Spoiler + Chill The Fuck Out | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 05 2011 18:16 Kurumi wrote: Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him. The more that you yell, The more attention you get. Keep up the noise, Joe [/sarcasm] Even if you are town, and its too early to throw accusations out, you're playing TERRIBLY anti-town. Again, Chill. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 05 2011 18:25 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I write "You" with capital Y because I feel like and it is Polish thing. I call Scum/people I am suspicious of Rats. Get over it. No haiku for this, The point is too short for one. Just a simple note Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious. As far as your "slips" go: Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted. Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him. Point grew after I wrote the haiku :p | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Prior warnings of misdeeds. Vote without a post. again, [/sarcasm] Drazerk, you did NOT just read the thread, SEE that people were warned against voting without posting, and then vote without posting. Right? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 04:49 GGQ wrote: You didn't actually mention iGrok in your post, but you voted for him. More explaining please? My Final Haiku: I guess fun is not allowed. Srs Bsns. You, sir, have no sense of fun. So let me get this straight - your reason for voting me is "Thread Derailment" and not wanting to vote for treadmill? You do realize you could just -wait- to vote, right? Honestly, those are some of the worst reasons to vote that I can think of. Particularly since your post is, aside from your "evidence" against me, just a regurgitation of other posts. Post some analysis, and good analysis not just bullshit like the above post. You may be thinking, "Why haven't you (iGrok) posted strong analysis yet then?" And knowng you, and probably kurumi as well, there probably a "Scum!" (or "Rat!") thrown in there. The reason is that last night there was nothing to analyze yet, but I saw that the town was disintegrating really fast and I had to step up to try to stop that from happening. May analysis will come after 24 hours of game time, no sooner or later. I will focus on one person, selected without bias, and attempt to ascertain through their posts what their alignment is. Anyone who remembers me from Experiment Mafia 2, I was Pink2 - You remember my analysis of Blue, and how strong that was. In closing, BE PATIENT. Talk, yes, Discuss, yes. Accuse, especially with as little actual substance has happened so far, no. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 08:14 blackone wrote: Well, posting cute little haikus and being funny can lead to the suspicion that you have some kind of interest in being considered funny and friendly. Also, if you don't agree to that, why will you stop doing that now? It's not like gtrsrs can impose rules on how you have to post. Read my last haiku T.T | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 08:32 Vain wrote: Well now we know that the mafia has an own thread or something like that. i think we can surely say iGrock was just doing it to stand out/fun/boredom. Mafia ALWAYS has their own quicktopic. Thats how things run. The only exception was Sleeper Cell Mafia, which I hosted ^^ But thanks for understanding me. I'd like to have fun this game. Its not that I'm not taking things seriously! | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 10:28 Pyo wrote: woah there: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=16#309 I thought post editing wasn't allowed. Mod Check Please | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 10:47 Alderan wrote: Here's a list of a couple people who seem to be acting a little scummy. (Not saying for sure scum, just people that might not be) Lets get some meaningful conversation going. Amazingxkcd I've already kind of voiced this opinion but I'm going to expound upon my earlier analysis. Let's look at his posts. This post, obviously vague, of little help to the town, and posted directly after he appeared on TheAwesomeAll's “Lurker List”. When I pointed out this was a fishy post he responded with this: Obviously immediately went on the defensive, turned and pointed a finger at me, and suggest that the town take its time “figuring each other out” instead of having discussion that is inherently pro-town. In fact his only “contribution” to town discussion was this post: So his only contribution to the town is copying and pasting something that is in the third post of this thread? Interesting. Grush57 This is an example of someone who is acting scummy, but who could be just a really bad townie. Not advising we use our first lynch on him but its someone to look out for (maybe DT check?). Here's why: First, without posting anything in the thread he immediately voted for Freeloader. Could definitely be viewed as a rookie maf move. When called out about it he failed to respond. In fact he did not contribute anything to the thread until the inactive list to which he responded: Wait? What? After blindly bandwagon voting not even 4 hours into the game? Inconsistency tends to be a maf trait. When called out he responded: Yea true, I stupidly joined the bandwagon to lynch freeloader from his posts. Again, Wait? What?! A little later when calling out omgCRAZY he posts this gem, his third post. Says the person with only 1 post so far? OmgCRAZY had posted several times..... More to come tomorrow. Would love to hear what everyone thinks. When quoting, make sure you leave the name/time part of the quote in ^^. Its too easy to write a fake quote otherwise. Just a little tip ^^ | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 11:13 aprudds wrote: I already reported it and the mod told me it was a typo fix. Lets get one thing clear here - do not Report anything to TL mods that isn't a direct violation of the TL Commandments (excluding spam - spam is legal here). We police ourselves, and only call in the authorities when we need them. Report to the Mod of your game, or Qatol if you have a problem with Mod. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 12:13 CjrNinja wrote: Gl hf everyone. Day 1 thoughts: Freeloader625 innocently asks a silly question and gets a lot of heat on him because of it. I doubt he is scum, experienced players have already said that mods make it clear to mafia that they can communicate outside the thread. I’d say that his posts shows him to be more town orientated because of it. so all those voting for Freeloader please unvote him immediately so as to avoid a mislynch. Subsequent posts are ambiguous one-liners, not really much to go on, looks silly but not screaming scum to me. Speaking of which, the people who have voted for freeloader625: Cherubael- Not sure about this guy. Pushed for the freeloader vote, which raised my suspicions of until I saw that he pointed out 35spike1s post and further lack of contribution (see below). Please elaborate on the last part for me. Jimbooo- vote retracted. Quick to jump the gun for a lynch, but realizes his mistake and unvotes quickly. Probably too overeager, no scummy posts. Lafali- vote retracted. WTF is this shit? Hopping on the voting bandwagon is exactly what scum does in order to lynch townies. Good job, way to do the scum’s work for them. Based on this post alone it makes you either scum, or a very clueless townie. You’re my prime suspect atm but I’ll withhold voting for you until after I see how you defend yourself. Treadmill, Benjef, Drazerk, grush57. Don’t really have much of a read on these guys. Treadmill pretty hasty in his posts like Jimbooo, but went about it in a more scummy way. Can you all please unvote Freeloader for now and wait until some of the more legitimate candidates for your vote continue posting? Others: 35spike1 All the one liners regarding the freeloader post aren’t helping town, it gives the opportunity for scum to fly under the radar and post rubbish like this and getting away with it unchecked. Keeping my eye on 35spike1. Time for a contribution please. Kumuri- Pretty experienced. Very forward with his opinion and is looking at the right people. Definitely the most day1 pro-town person we have at the moment. Amazingxkcd- Stop posting obvious, non contributing shit. “It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it.” That post has no value whatsoever except as a front for you to appear active. Also, your copy+paste post on the guides to mafia are equally useless. Analysis on the game please, if other people haven’t already read the 4th post on this thread, then it’s their loss. TheAwesomeAll- He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything. Don’t know why people are getting so riled up about it though monsterDrakar? Conclusion/tl;dr: Everyone stop voting forFreeloader and keep your eyes on what Lafali, Cherubael, 35spike1 and Amazingxkcd have to say. /rant Whats your opinion of me? curious | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 13:17 DeMorcerf wrote: Or he simply cannot extract himself from the excitement that is MLG, I know I couldn't for most of this weekend. I think that the reasoning that has come forth from some of the experienced players should convince us to leave freeloader for now and concentrate on others --- I agree with Alderan's suspicions of Amazingxkcd (posts that just repeat the description of the game) and Grush57 (confusing contradictions) and the strange hasty back and forth behavior of Jimboo pointed out by TranceStorm. I quote this to point of that redFF's only post in the game is just this one-liner spam. Perhaps he is too busy in his other mafia game to contribute something more useful to his post, but then he should have waited until he had more time to post. Red isn't playing. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fWwZu.jpg) Its time for some analysis. For Science. This post will be long. And split into two parts. The first part will be setup analysis. The second part will be a post-by-post analysis of Kurumi. There will be no tl;dr. Welcome to Mafia ^^. Let's begin. Setup: 40 players. 1/5 are scum. Scum have 4 kp N1, and D1 is rarely a scum lynch (sad but true). However, there are medics and vets, so assume D2: 36 players - 28 Town 8 scum, or .222 scum. Now we're getting somewhere. Because of the scum %, which is slightly high for a large game (large games tend to help scum get lost in the noise), and based on Town traditionally having more PRs anyways, I guarantee tht Town has a greater number of PRs. Probably 150-250%. I'll analyze Scum roles first so we can get a rough estimate of the number of blue roles. 8 Scum. 1 GF. There are definitely not more than 50% PRs on the red team. That would be absurd for a newbie-friendly game. Therefore, 2-3 RBs. 3 RBs is a little high, so I'll guesstimate 2. This leave us with 3 PRs on scum. Blue Roles Detective: In this game, Detectives (Also known as Cops and DTs) check Role in addition to alignment. This makes DT a VERY powerful role. However, there is probably more than 1 - having only one makes the game to easy to be swung with a lucky snipe. Therefore, I'd guess there are 2 DTs. Medics and Vets: Lately, theres been a tendency to display both but only give out one or the other of these roles. In this case, however, I will assume both. Likely 2 Medics (for the same reason as 2 DTs - if one gets sniped thats just bad luck) and 1 Vet. Veterans kind of get their own kind of weighting when it comes to balancing teams. You know it will be useful if town is losing, but it does nothing active to help them. Veterans help to stabilize the game and make it less swing-y, which is exactly what you want for a newbie game. Lastly, Vigilantes. Knowing Meapak, theres at least one, probably 2 Vigilantes. Vigilantes can be the town saviors. Particularly in a game like this, the faster we can whittle down Mafia KP the better off we'll be. Vigis should take note of who presses for and opposes a lynch, and when we see the results, act accordingly - probably NOT before N2 though. Note that I do not count vets toward Power Role balance because they are so weak. Also Vigis only count for 75% of a PR because they can do more harm than good. Role cops, on the other hand, count for 150% of a PR. Yes, they are that strong. Black Roles Traditionally, Black roles are 3rd party, but since there aren't any sks, I'm counting Miller as a black role. Miller is the bane of any cop. Every check you make that comes back Goon is less usefull. You can't confirm that he's anti town (though feel free to pressure them and see if they crack!). Millers count as -50% of a PR to Town. I would be VERY surprised if there were more than 1 Miller in this game, and certainly not more than two. So, in summary: 5 Goons, 2 RBs, 1 GF = 3 PRs 2 DTs, 2 Medics, 1 Vet, 2 Vigis = 6.5 PRs 1 Miller = -.5 PRs Total of 6:3 - Perfect - 200% Is that guaranteed to be accurate? No. But its probably pretty close. Now on to Analysis! Today's subject is Kurumi. The black does not mean I think he's a miller, it means I don't know yet. So, post by post: On June 05 2011 18:03 Kurumi wrote: Freeloader tries to justify SC2 Mafia as real Mafia experience,I'd go with noobtown,yeah. Now lets sniff for potential bandwagoners... Manages to insult Freeloader and defend him at the same time. His next move, searching for bandwagonners, is a good idea, although its really not too hard to search through the 6 post long vote thread :p. Nothing to really note here except attitude. On June 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote: What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets. ##vote Treadmill This is either a misread or a mislead. I immediately noted 2 things here: the ridiculously aggressive attitude was one. Treadmill is saying here that we need to use every bit of evidence, and that at the moment we had very little but it was enough to start. I might not have completely agreed with Treadmill, but I didn't think he was scum because of it. Kurumi is apparently convinced enough by this post that Treadmill is scum to vote - after he's yelled at others for voting based on little to no evidence. On June 05 2011 18:11 Kurumi wrote: My God,so many Rats running between my legs! No,we can't lynch the guy because of one thing. We should be suspicious WHY the bandwagon formed so FAST on such shitty evidence. It is not mylo,but we must use lynch to it's best. Literally this is what happened: Lafali says "aprudds has a point, but it could mean nothing. Fortunately, its not the end of the world if we fuck up." Kurumi continues his hyper-aggression. Lafali's post meant nothing - he may as well have not posted. Based on this, Kurumi accuses Lafali of being scum.+ Show Spoiler + Granted, it was a useless post - a scummy thing to do with good player meta, but as a newbie Lafali probably felt (s)he should contribute something. On June 05 2011 18:16 Kurumi wrote: Yeah,two SHORT posts about his SC2 mafia experience,fishy as heck."I hopped on voting bandwagon" What? Only Scum bandwagons. "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches" WHAT THE FUCK? No,we can't afford mislynch for the sake of mislynching. Someone gives red vibes? WE LYNCH HIM. Someone made dumb question once,while Scummy Rats like You run around and we should lynch him? I will drop Treadmill for now,because You're infinitely more scummy than him. This should be pretty self-explanatory. + Show Spoiler [In case its not,] + More hyper-aggression On June 05 2011 18:23 Kurumi wrote: Because I draw discussion from terrible freeloader bandwagon? I don't throw accusations out,they've slipped already. Treadmill and Lafali both advocate mislynches and not thinking before lynching. They hopped on bandwagon and they will. This is actually a very interesting post. As you can see, Kurumi is mis-representing both Lafali and Treadmill. Neither of them "advocate mis-lynches", they simply stated that a mislynch was ok, and even probable. Neither of them are anti-town, and Treadmill is actually playing pro-town. On June 05 2011 18:31 Kurumi wrote: No. Scum wants Town to mislynch. Scum wants Town not to think about other suspects. Scum wants to make Town jump on one bandwagon and deny EVERY discussion about anything else. They are doing that,not only but they're advocating that as a good thing. This is a very true post. That is precisely what scum wants. Its important to note that scum also wants to cause as much chaos in the town as possible as well. On June 05 2011 18:33 Kurumi wrote: Scum will unvote after someone called it out to remain 'unsuspicious". Also why the heck Town would lynch person generating discussion and bringing scummy suspects? Scum would like to lynch me,but they can just kill me at night. Just read it. The one super-pro-town thing he's done all game! Catching silent voters is SUPER important, particularly in a large game like this. On June 05 2011 21:40 Kurumi wrote: @Pyo (Pyo voted for Kurumi and pointed out that Kurumi got lynched D1 last game) Because Your arguments are dumb I am going to ignore You. A tip: In mafia XXXIX I was spreading chaos in the Town,also I was really scummy. I wasn't talkative,I was spammy. If You want any meta reads,go check PYPI and PTP. Pyo calls him out, Kurumi admits to spreading chaos in the town the game before. [green]Pyo asks Kurumi for a list of "experienced players" On June 05 2011 22:45 Kurumi wrote: Jackal58 - he is very good GGQ - I think he is there for at least short while Me Impervious from replacements played a bit there too gtrsrs played one game I think. You're not going to participating in lynching the most scummy player Pyo? While I understand place holder votes You need to know that people like me will remember that. I want to see a good post after You're back. Jackal58 is good. GGQ is good, borderline very good (no offense Jackal ♥). Vain is good. I'd like to think I'm decent. Impervious is... interesting haha. Kurumi has played 3 games, and Jackal called him out later on. Whats important here is that Kurumi lumps himself in with very good players that town should listen to. He's attempting to establish a position of power for himself. On June 05 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote: By the most scummy player I meant Your suspicion. An example of good post would be an analysis pointing out the biggest slips of player X leading Town in a Scum lynch.Remember though: there's nothing wrong about being wrong(unless You're redtooth,then You commit suicide on Day 3) A good post could be summing up who attacked who and who defended who + Your thoughts about it. Everything that generates discussion is good. You must remember though,that without good evidence there's probably no point in bringing something new,because this will cause chaos. Pyo,it is too fast for scum to bus too. Freeloader's situation is really uncertain. His small,but bandwagon is based on shitty evidence. "He asked a question,no townie would ask it!" Think for a second. What would happen if Freeloader was scum? Someone would pm him and tell him everything he needed to know,makes sense? Hell yes. We aren't that vindictive,don't worry <3 But there are players who are magnets,namely Radfield and Kavdragon,who like to die Day/Night 1. Kurumi hasn't been here that long, but he's clearly read up on his mafia. He knows the names of some older players. He is correct in that all discussion is good discussion, but (IMO)there are certain methods of generating it that do no good to town because they cause too much chaos. Still, point in his favor though. On June 05 2011 23:53 Kurumi wrote: Bussing is when You vote for lynch/kill Your Mafia buddy to make Yourself less suspicious/earn town cred,mostly happens when there's no way to save him/perform some gambit or wicked trickery. Well,it is rather safe to assume that anyone who got assigned as Godfather is going to help his newbie Mafia bros as fast as possible - he is probably one of the "better" players,but this might be a mislead. Also as far I remember in my PYPI pm I had mafia list and that I can PM them etc. etc.,while it wasn't a "noob game" I strongly believe that there everything a new player should know about his role/alignment. Not much to say about this. Slightly pro-town I guess? Kinda obvious stuff, but I'm giving people a pass on obvious stuff this game because its a newbie game and so not everything IS obvious. On June 06 2011 00:07 Kurumi wrote: My dumbness meter went over 9000. Before saying "HURR DURR YOU DID NOTHING" read my posts. I brought evidence why I think they're scum. aprudds (the originator of the whole "Freeloader Debacle") gives a nice, concise analysis of whats gone on in the game, and (in the @Pyo section), explains what his reasoning was for the first accusation. + Show Spoiler [Mini aprudds read] + IMO, it seems that aprudds and Kurumi actually have similar philosophies, its just that aprudds doesn't piss off as many people along the way. On June 06 2011 00:18 Kurumi wrote: I played in XXXIX then PYPI then PTP now there. This is Kurumi's prior experience. Note that in one of these games he was lynched D1. Vain steps in to defend Treadmill and aprudds. On June 06 2011 00:27 Kurumi wrote: @Vain Let aprudds defend himself. On June 06 2011 00:30 Kurumi wrote: EDWOP: I meant,let him play by himself,he does not need Your help. The evidence is simple: They support bad lynches,they say that we can waste lynches,they want Town to make quick decision which they didn't think about enough We've been over this - No they don't. On June 06 2011 03:41 Kurumi wrote: Sorry but Palmar and RedFF are better at tunneling everyone than me >:C Tunnelling is still bad -_-. However, I don't think Kurumi is tunnelling this game. He's just accusing everyone who disagrees with him of being scum. On June 06 2011 03:52 Kurumi wrote: Hey guys voting on freeloader bandwagon,are You willing to post? (Drazerk,grush57) Continuing to prod Silent Voters. Pro-town. Really unexpected. On June 06 2011 04:05 Kurumi wrote: Treadmill is suspicious to You? You both are doing the same thing. Also thanks for excuse,I enjoy eating them. Because they're yummy. Why would DT report on Day 2? It is an easy target for Mafia,even when med protected they can just stack on him. Why are You spreading bad ideas? Kurumi points out that DTs shouldn't report on D2 since mafia can stack kills. This is an excellent point - DTs should wait until they have something useful to report before revealing themselves. I don't understand the first half of this post, so I'm ignoring it lol. On June 06 2011 05:37 Kurumi wrote: This post can be treated like it never happened,You know? What are Your thoughts on freeloader bandwagon? Who's Your scum suspect #1? Asking questions, its been a bit since he last posted an opinion of his own (aside from other people are "Rats"). Nothing really here.+ Show Spoiler [Tiny supersoft read here] + Admitting to lurking and doing nothing but saying 'hey look I'm not lurking' is terrible.  On June 06 2011 05:54 Kurumi wrote: We can't no lynch. There needs to be a lynch every Day. True. And thats the last post he made. It may be time related. That was ~10 hours ago, possibly sleeping. So, what can we take from all this? Kurumi is a very aggressive player known for causing chaos. He has cast suspicion on many people, mostly those who argued with him. He has also thrown in some genuinely Pro-town things into his posting. Its very difficult to make a final call, but... I believe that Kurumi is Scum. In my opinion, his Pro-town points were thrown in at random or very obvious to remove suspicion from him. However, I must take into account that I may have been biased, as well as his pro-town things. Because of this, I do not advocate a Kurumi Lynch D1. Instead, I think that Kurumi should be our prime DT target. Knowledge of his alignment will undoubtedly help us determine who is scum and who is town. GGQ, Jackal, Vain, I'd particularly appreciate it if you would weigh in here. To new players, this is a complete, thorough analysis of a player. You don't have to do things like this. But you'll be a much better player if you do, even if you don't post it (there are times not to, like if you realize someone is a DT or Medic). Go forth and analyze! | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
for the record, fishing for blues is scummy[quote] Is this in response to anything? [quote]you're still my prime FoS, iGrok, no matter how long your post is[/QUOTE] With how quickly you jumped on me based on nothing, I'd expect nothing less. Perhaps though, you should read the post instead of remarking at its length. And then perhaps you should run an analysis of me. In fact, I'd like to see you do a post-by-post analysis of me. Will you do that? You might be surprised at what you find. For example, in Experiment Mafia II, I ran a post-by-post analysis of the player "Blue1", who I believed to be quite scummy and who was under a lot of suspicion at the time. However, upon going through it, I was forced to conclude that he was actually Town. Town won on Day 3. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote: here is my scum hunt you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is. But as a refutation, I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose. I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail. Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above. If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players. On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote: in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias. I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 16:20 CjrNinja wrote: @ iGrok I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^ Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1. Disagreement is fine! I'm a huge fan of actual discussion about things - but someone had to start the analysis, and the little quotes we were getting before are much more annoying to deal with. As I said, I'm not completely certain on Kurumi, but if I had to choose I'd say scum. Thats why I asked for a DT check. Regarding my 'focus on blue roles', which I take you and gtr to mean my Setup Analysis, what I love most about Mafia is the mechanics, and so I'm going to try to work those out as best I can. Since neither mafia nor town knew (or knows now) how many of each role there are, I haven't really done anything. However, with rough, probable numbers, we can work out the best way to assign our blue powers. Blues are (arguably) the most important part of a mafia game - we should try to line up some good actions instead of just hoping for the best. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote: note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them. Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points]) is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to. And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
If the three of them are on the same team I'll never play in a Meapak game again. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
The reason is because those are by far the three strongest players in this game, and it simply wouldn't be fair. Hosts are supposed to randomize teams, but they have some responsibility to ensure a fair and balanced game. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 18:06 Pyo wrote: After reading the posts up to now, I am reasonably confident that freeloader is probably a townie and the ambiguity of early accusers and their motivations means that there's not much to be learned from lynching him, although it might be inevitable at this point. Since his post in his defense haven't really been all that constructive anyway it isn't really a big loss, so I'm not gonna fight it. The players that I find annoying are by far Haiku boy and Kurumi. So if ever I'm undecided about who to vote for it'll probably be one of them. I think it is interesting to note all the little 1v1 bickering going on, the most recent example of which is between iGrok and gtrsrs. I think it is reasonable to assume that two mafia wouldn't orchestrate a mini feud this early on, which means that either both are town or only one is town. So combining my last 2 paragraphs, I think I'm gonna have to change my vote to iGrok. Please note that its a triangle, not 1v1. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8e2nZ.png) (The black line is I'm not accusing him of being scum). Sorry for the bad drawing ^^ + Show Spoiler + And don't call me Haiku boy again. Just curious, why do you find me annoying? Aside from the haikus, which I stopped when I realized some people don't appreciate having a little fun. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 19:20 Pyo wrote: Well haiku girl, In no particular order: 1. Your haikus 2. Your heroic let me break down the game for you all post, which is clearly an attempt to make it seem like you know what you're doing, yet you still did #1, revealing that you're just a self-important douche (note that gtrsrs interprets this as you being scum) 3. Your passive-aggressiveness ("don't call me Haiku boy again") 4. Your not-so-passive aggressiveness (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=10#187) 5. You like to think that you are a pro chastising others for not reading the thread (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=12#232), but haven't even read the rules yourself (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=10#196) 6. Red hurts my eyes (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=18#342) 7. "For science" - Athene is a douche, and so are you for quoting him (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500¤tpage=19#365) 8. Your triangle picture. 9. And then there's your whole exchange with gtrsrs, which needs no real explanation I suppose that there might be a little overlap in that list. I don't really know whether you're scum or not, but as I said in a previous post I'm picking one of a random bickering between two players (you and gtrsrs) and he's a lot less grating and - for now at least - appears more emotionally stable (less likely to give a tell after prodding). I'll leave it everyone else to judge your response to a more pressure/attention on you. 1. Lol. + Show Spoiler + Excuse me for wanting to have a little fun. Get over it. 2. Which post? The huge analysis post? The first real, in-depth analysis anyone has done this game? 3. That wasn't passive aggressive. + Show Spoiler + Don't copy gtrsrs's terms if you don't know how to use them. But if you'd prefer less passive, fine. Quit nit-picking and calling names like a little bitch and start doing some serious thinking. 4. Justified. + Show Spoiler + Town could have fractured really early this game, and someone needed to lay down a hard stance to keep us together. 5. Silent Voters are very bad. And yeah, I was drunk and posted in blue not green. Problem? 6. Suck it up. + Show Spoiler + That was not a game related post. That was a FORUM related post, and needed to be made -very- clear. As multiple mods and vets backed me up on. 7. Oh no, I played Portal today. + Show Spoiler + Again, this is flavor I (and many other people in other games do too - I'm happy to provide examples) to make the game more fun. You know, since its a game. That we play for enjoyment. 8. MSPaint FTW! 9. Which part of that do you disprove of the most? And finally, use the "Links" button when posting. Copy&Pasting is annoying. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 21:31 supersoft wrote: guys this is getting really complicated with these XXL posts :D i'll draw a mindmap of all this when i am at home. when does the night beginn? (typing this from my iphone) I assume in 16.5 more hours, just basing it off the D1 post. And yeah I don't really sleep xD | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 22:40 Jackal58 wrote: I couldn't analyze Kurumi to save my life. We need a psychiatrist for that. He is playing identically to the other two games I have had the pleasure of being in with him. His posts do at times contain substance but it's very hard to pick out from all the background noise. I think our best bet with him is to watch his voting history. He will eventually call all of us scum before this game is over so his FoS posts are pretty much useless. Lol. Perhaps I should've done someone else then. Ah well, never played with him before so I didn't know. Moving forward! For Aiur! | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 06 2011 22:52 amazingxkcd wrote: As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating. It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions. About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above. As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond. If I was convinced Kurumi was scum, I'd be pushing for his lynch - hard. Do I know that Jackal is town? No. I know he's good. Therefore I want a lot of action from him, for two reasons: If Jackal is Town, a lot of action from him means a lot of pro-town things happen. If he is scum, a lot of action occurs that I can make a read from. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 00:12 Benjef wrote: Why would a smurf have two 1500+ post accounts? He just asked you a question based on your reply to me. Some of those people may just plain be inactive due to have being at the MLG event? You edited. The cardinal sin. I'm willing to back up that the bolded part above is the only change since he first posted though. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 02:11 Vain wrote: Ok, i finally finished reading. Man, sleeping is bad for keeping up with a mafia game. First off: Kurumi is probably town if he also spammed this much in a previous game where he was scum. I don't know his style very good but he is drawing way too much attention to be a comfortable mafia. I don't quite understand this. So Kurumi is probably town because he's acting the same way he did when he was mafia before? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 02:43 Vain wrote: Euh, i meant town. Jackal stated that when he was town he's just as hard to analyze. Iirc he was not scum the other games Jackal played with him. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 00:19 Jackal58 wrote: Kurumi was town in XXXIX. Lynched day one for posting nonsensically for the first half of the day. He has improved significantly from that game believe it or not. He is also still playing in PTP mafia and is a self proclaimed SK. Ok, yeah that makes a lot more sense. Yeah, I'm starting to see how Kurumi could be a townie, but I could also see him as a scum who felt the pressure and is trying to change his tune. I still don't thing he should be lynched today. I'm trying to think of who should be, but I really don't know :/ | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 02:56 Alderan wrote: But you agree that it shouldn't be freeloader? Yeah. Here's my "Don't Lynch" list (in no particular order): Me ^^ Jackal58 Vain GGQ Kurumi Treadmill 35spike1 CrJninja Xedat aprudds Actually, looking back, I'm going to put my vote on Drazerk, for twice voting without saying shit. (He might've posted once or twice, but absolutely no substance, only bandwagonning). | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 03:11 Kurumi wrote: That's pretty big list. Care to explain why those people shouldn't be lynched? Me: I'm Town. Jackal, Vain, GGQ: I want to know who among you is also town. Kurumi: I don't know what to think about him, but I want to know more. As the game progresses he's gotten better imo, so I'm waiting to see how he turns out. Treadmill, 35spike1, CrJNinja, Xedat, aprudds: Hes not afraid to say what he thinks, and did some decent analysis. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 03:23 amazingxkcd wrote: It is intrresting that you list everyone who did not accuse you yet. Explain in great detail your case for each one in your list. LOL. Kurumi accused me. He recently has backed off of me, but he DEFINITELY accused me. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 03:28 gtrsrs wrote: iGrok did a 28000 character analysis and determined that kurumi was scum, and less than a day later, before he even had time to convince anyone to vote for kurumi, iGrok now has kurumi on his "don't lynch" list. duly noted Because, as I noted in that post, I wasn't sure. Combined with Jackal's testimony and Kurumi's abrubt change in play, I'd prefer a DT check on him. You know, exactly what I said in that post | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 03:40 TranceStorm wrote: Hmm. As amazingxkcd has already noted, a DT check wouldn't reveal much about Kurumi. If Kurumi were mafia, he certainly would be selected as the godfather given that the mafia select amongst themselves on night one who the godfather is. Therefore, regardless of whether he is or isn't mafia, we still will have no clue on Day 2 as to his alignment because he could have been town-aligned to begin with, or switched to town-aligned through his godfather powers. Usually the GF has to be chosen by the end of D1. I would be shocked if Kurumi was chosen as GF, because a GF would NOT risk being lynched D1 - thats just crazy. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 09:24 GGQ wrote: Thoughts on what I've read so far: iGrok's post on setup was not blue-fishing at all (if he was doing that for the benefit of his mafia friends, he would post it in mafia quicktopic, not in thread), but it also was kind of useless (sorry bro, I know you like this kind of stuff, but there was no need to post it). You went through a lot of trouble and wild conjecture just to arrive at the conclusion that we probably have a pretty normal setup (2dts, 2-3medics, 2-4vigs, 2-4 vets). You could have just stated that that's a normal setup for the roles that were listed. I want to mention, though, that I've played in games on this forum where the only blue roles were vigilantes, and where the only blue roles were veterans. Be ready for anything and DONT count on blue roles to win the game for you. Greens win games far more often than blues do. The reason I posted the big analysis even though it came to a normal setup was so that many of the new people, who don't know what a traditional setup is, would have a rough idea. That being said, I find this rookie bandwagon very interesting. I don't think he's scum, just... bad with his words. Drazert is still my vote. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
sorry bro | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 10:13 Impervious wrote: Ok, I thought it through looking at a variety of different situations, and I believe that we need to push for a lynch of one of those 3, rather than rookie. Why? Because, it's likely that all 3 (or 2 of them) are mafia, based on the timing (and assuming that rookie is town and we have 2 or so vigis in the game). When that one flips, here's the outcomes: Scum - We get vigis to hit one or both of the others overnight. Early knockdown to 3KP for the mafia. Town - We get a vigi to hit rookie as an insurance policy for switching (although we can argue the merit of this move overnight, and should rookie turn out to be red, Treadmill would be a decent policy lynch tomorrow because of how hard he's been defending). So, if we're going to hit one of them, we need to pick the scummiest one, in case it's a freak accident that they all voted at the same time like that. And we've gotta do it quick (I'm gone in ~1 hr). Basically, if we switch - in the worst case scenario we give our vigis a good target tonight, and best case, we hit 2 or 3 mafia. Pretty damn good first lynch/night imo. Now, I asked myself "have they been acting in the best interest of the town?", and the one that really stood out as a "no" was xkcd, so I'd agree with a switch to him right now. So, I'm changing my vote. ##Vote: amazingxkcd which 3? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + xD <3 | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 12:40 Munk-E wrote: Is anyone else suspicious of lafali? I mean he has said nothing to help anyone with his posts! + Show Spoiler + He has 3 real posts. the first one is this. Good catch by aprudds. A townie wouldn't need to know that information. However, he could be new. There are 40 people in this game though, so its not like its mylo. This was about the whole freeloader incident at the beginning. This post is no help at all. He starts by complementing aprudds for his "good catch", and then immediately says why it may not matter. This post did nothing to help at all. His next post is On June 05 2011 15:16 Lafali wrote: His subsequent posts were fishy. Due to that I hopped on the voting bandwagon along with them. Its a 40 player game, I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches. Regardless, we should continue scumhunting. We do have 48 hours. He says "It's a 40 player game" again. and then clarifys what he means by saying "I'm sure we can afford a few mislynches." Now this is obviously scummy behavior. Saying this could only imply that mislynches aren't so bad. What's worse is even after he gave his incredibly scummy opinion, he said "Regardless, we should continue scumhunting" this is the complete opposite of what he was implying and feels like he kind of just tacked it on there to not seem as scummy. even after that, he says "We do have 48 hours" this again somewhat reinforces my analysis about his quote earlier about mislynches not being so bad. It's saying that we shouldn't worry now. Also in this post, he mentions just hopping on the bandwagon. At the time of this post, he DID just hop on the bandwagon. 10 minuites earlier, he was the 3rd person to vote. an hour after he voted, he unvoted seemingly unprompted with no explanation. He has yet to re-vote. This behavior seems pretty scummy. I'm guessing that the mafia PMed him and told him not to unvote freeloader, as he was drawing suspicion to himself. This post is filled with contradictions and scummy behavior. His 3rd and final post is this: On June 06 2011 04:02 Lafali wrote: I'm new to mafia forum games like this and mostly used to smaller and faster-paced ones where taking a risk on a mislynch is pretty common as long as the game is not mislynch-lose. The subsequent posts from treadmill seemed fishy and people started to vote for him and at that point he was the only one looking suspicious to me. However, after reading more into the thread it seemed like a bad idea to vote so early, and it would be better to wait for any tells, and then on day two, cop reports. Here, he is being ULTRA defensive. along with being, again, completely useless. He first states that his previous experience with a different form of the game leads him to believe that mislynches are okay. He is saying "mislynches are okay, and here's why I think so" again. Next he mentions that he finds treadmill fishy. He gives no evidence for this at all, and the only reason he even mentioned him is because kurumi said he was more scummy than treadmill. his purpose in mentioning treadmill was to get kurumi to not vote him. He next says that voting early seems like a bad idea, despite the fact he was the 3rd to vote. And finally, he seems to be expecting DT to reveal himself tomorrow. Note that he hasn't posted since this when people, including myself, started attacking him. I guess they forgot about him, but he definitely seems the most scummy to me. ##VOTE lafali Speaking of people who haven't posted much... But yeah, you're right. doesn't look like it'll really matter though, looks like rookie is pretty locked in as the lynch | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
2 blues and 2 reds. Looks like we need to do some serious thinking. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
I'm thinking about him and a couple other people. Once I make the connections (or fail to), I'll let you know. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 13:16 Treadmill wrote: I'm pretty comfortable saying that Senj, amazingxkcd, and Kurumi are mafia. To a more experienced player (iGrok or Vain preferably) what would you think of out vigi's shooting at them tonight? I'm maybe 80 or 90% sure, but I'd want someone with more experience to comment. While I'm thinking I want to voice in on this - Ordinarily, using vigis early is a bad idea. But, we got hit hard tonight, and since we're probably out of medics (there may be 1 more), we may need to shoot tonight to cut down KP even more. -___- | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
I'd like to kind of make this a public discussion, because my thought process tends to go in fits and starts. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MyQYE.jpg) Pardon the bad handwriting. Analysis to come | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Oh, and I'm sure there are arrows missing, those are just the ones I could remember off the top of my head. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Everything he's done has been in the right. Everything. When it was unpopular, he stood by his ideas. He's defended those he felt were wrongly accused, and and accused those he felt were guilty. IMO, Treadmill is Town. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Sure medics are passive and not useful until DTs/Vigis claim. But with possibly no remaining medics, DTs can't claim without really good cause because we can't save them -__- Medics ARE important, much more important than you seem to think. I should have made clear that I wasn't officially accusing Jackal of being GF, just saying that his play would make sense if he were GF. For the moment, I have to go with treadmill here - Senj, xkcd, and kurumi are the most suspicious. Just going off of associations, I'd say that Alderan is probably Town as well | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 21:45 Jackal58 wrote: Don't really care what you're buying. How the hell would mafia know he was a medic? In hindsight, its actually kind of obvious that rookie was a blue. I believe supersoft is accusing you of picking up on that before anyone else | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 07 2011 21:56 supersoft wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2011 21:45 Jackal58 wrote: Don't really care what you're buying. How the hell would mafia know he was a medic? i never said, that mafia knew that he was a medic. my theory was they wanted to draw votes away from freeload. your credibility will continue to fade away even more, if you keep avoiding the facts and just tell irrelevant things like that mafia couldn' knew tgat he was med. mafia at least knew that he wasn't mafia. On June 07 2011 21:53 iGrok wrote: In hindsight, its actually kind of obvious that rookie was a blue. I believe supersoft is accusing you of picking up on that before anyone else I stand corrected. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 08 2011 05:41 Kurumi wrote: Oh cmon,don't try to push for KavCaprio lynch tomorrow. Who is kavcaprio? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 08 2011 13:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: GGQ was out walking around thinking about the failed lynch. He’d been around the block a few times and was trying to get his thoughts in order for the next day. Suddenly he heard a noise in the bushes, two black figures slipped out. GGQ immediately knew what came next, he’d seen the results many times before. “So this is how it ends?” He asked. His only response was the sinister click of hammers being pulled back. “Well” sighed GGQ laconically, “I’m glad I was thought dangerous enough to kill so early.” Two silenced bullets were his only reply. Across town DeMorcerf was drinking at his favorite bar, it had been a long day and he was trying to drown out the thoughts of the failed lynch. Looking at the clock DeMorcerf realized it was getting late and decided to start back home. He got about four blocks from the bar when a black SUV with tinted windows drove up next to him. DeMorcerf sensed trouble and tried to throw himself into a culvert but he wasn’t quick enough. A quick burst of automatic fire sounded and DeMorcerf was left lying in a pool of his own blood. GGQ the Townie has been killed DeMorcerf the Townie has been killed It is now day 2! You have 48 hours to vote on a lynch Ok, since some of you haven't understood this clearly, let me explain the Day Post for you. Mafia shot GGQ twice. Someone (95% sure mafia) shot DeMorcerf. How do I know GGQ was shot twice? 2 bullets, 2 figures. 2 people working together. So its not a scum/vigi stack. Assuming no Vigis shot last night, all KP is accounted for. GGQ's last post was that I am the godfather. He had several points, which I'll address now: On June 08 2011 13:03 GGQ wrote: The point was to lead you to Kurumi and iGrok above everyone else. Kurumi attacks lafali for his bandwagon vote bringing nothing new to the table on freeloader. There was absolutely no reason for him to throw scum on lafali so early in the game if he's mafia. Plus his aggressiveness and balls-out attitude are more inline with a green than anything else. Kurumi is most likely town. iGrok defends lafali as probably newb town. He's the only one who defends lafali straight out, but Vain, aprudds, monsterDrakar, and Senj also soft-defend him. I'm not saying they are all scum, but it's a great place to look for scum (dts take note! vigis save your shots). At this point in time I think iGrok is almost certainly the godfather of the mafia team (it could be jackal as well but his behavior doesn't fit the role as well, and seems more in line with the town play I've seen from him). iGrok defends lafali after Kurumi calls him out and votes for him, while before this accusation he posted that everyone who had voted so far ( which included lafali) should be under suspicion. Contradiction. iGrok has also been working to get into a town-leadership and thread-presence position all game, something the godfather always tries to do. iGrok also got way too defensive after being attacked and accused. First of all, come on GGQ, you know citations are needed. But I won't argue that I defended Lafali as a likely newb town. Here's why: of all the people who jumped early, Lafali is the only one who responded to my efforts to calm down the town by withdrawing his vote. To me, that signified that at least he was paying attention and listening to reason. I never said he shouldn't be under suspicion, in fact, I agreed with DeMorcerf here that Lafali was rather suspicious. I have been working to get town leadership. Guilty. In a game with high numbers of newbies, I expected that Vets would be picked off early, and as the least threatening Vet, I figured I could either draw fire (saving GGQ or Jackal for at least a day) , or I would be in a position to hold us together. You know, kind of like I did at the beginning. In too many games, Town loses because of out-of-control paranoia. Rational Thinking is good, fear-mongering and tunneling are not. Speaking of Tunneling: Lets talk about who has been tunneling this game. gtrsrs, Pyo, and Kurumi have been tunneling me all game long. The relationships between us are convoluted. Here's basically how its gone, with citations: Kurumi started off the game with the most ridiculous, paranoid, attack-everyone-who-speaks attitude that I have ever seen in a mafia game. I tell him to chill out and start thinking rather than cause chaos (if anyone here remembers the Coagulation fiasco you'll understand why). Pyo says Kurumi is probably town and was lynched before for being crazy, so don't worry about him. However, Pyo votes Kurumi. Pyo asks Kurumi about experience, Kurumi includes himself and gtrsrs. Later, gtrsrs defends Kurumi, says Jackal is a good player, and votes me. His reason for voting? My haikus and "i'm going to vote for you because i don't want to jump on the freeloader bandwagon". What great reasoning. As a side note, gtrsrs what WAS your reason then? Anyways, things kind of chill out until my Kurumi Analysis. I was of the opinion that Kurumi was scum. Then, gtrsrs accuses me of Blue-hunting, encourages voting me with TERRIBLE reasoning, and supports Kurumi. We go at it. Then, Pyo switches sides. Pyo uses similar reasoning as gtrsrs to call me scum. Btw, Rookie44 posted this laying things out reasonably well imo. Also, DeMorcerf didn't just defend me. He actively argued against gtrsrs. Moving forward, Kurumi thanks me and gtrsrs. Then, he defends us both! Apparently, gtrsrs doesn't appreciate Kurumi's actions, and tries to misrepresent me. Much later, Pyo calls me scummy for asking Jackal to analyze me. And thats pretty much the end of Day 1. Just look at how crazy this is. Relationships that are obvious: Kurumi and gtrsrs have a very strong relationship. Pyo and myself do not have a strong relationship, as you can see when he switches. No decent evidence has been brought against me by any of these players. GGQ's case against me is much more serious, but I feel like i've defended against that well enough. People who voted Rookie "for the sake of voting": Vain Kairo Alderan Senj tdAdonis (no posts....) Also, Treadmill outed Rookie as a Blue. Who voted for Rookie after that post? I know that Kurumi, gtrsrs, and maybe Pyo are going to attack me for this post. So to clarify my position on each of them at the moment, and make sure theres no room to be misrepresnted: I believe that gtrsrs is scum. I believe that Kurumi should be DT checked. He may already have been. I beleive that Pyo is Town. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 08 2011 20:59 Sprungjeezy wrote: iGrok, I've been suspicious of you since the very beginning. I think the smartest thing you could have done this round was say you took the shot. As stated only the mafia knows who was hit thus you could have played it off that you took the shot. Uhh.... what? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Or are you saying I should claim being protected by a medic? Either way, you're suggesting that I should have lied - thats why I'm confused. The rest of your post is: 'iGrok said probably all KP is accounted for', 'Killing GGQ was good for scum'. and 'OMG WIFOM'. ergo you vote me? | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 08 2011 21:24 Sprungjeezy wrote: iGrok, how do you not get the logic? You are SCUM Mafia killed GGQ because he was a skilled player. They then ignore you. Why would they do that? You've been very influential this game, a clear scum threat. Why would they ignore you? This is why I said the best move you could have done (especially with GGQ's final post) was to say you took the extra shot. I apologize if me stating that. I guess it confused you. But that doesn't matter. I'm pointing out that its not logic, its WIFOM. They could have left me alive for several reasons, including some of the very same reasons why people are saying I'm scum and killed DeMorcerf. Its not that I don't understand your post, its that it really is pretty useless except to say that you've chosen which glass to drink from. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Hats off to you, doing analysis like a boss, standing up for what you think, and making really good reads on people (like the aforementioned Rookie). | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 08 2011 23:35 Treadmill wrote: Hrrrm. Fair enough. And thank you, I'm still a newbie so I'm flying pretty blind. I finally took the time to read through todays posts - and I also took a quick look at iGrok's posts. I now think that iGrok is town. On the other hand, though, I can see how he comes across as a bit of a self-important ass (sorry...), and is rubbing some people the wrong way. So I think he's attracting some attention because of that. To a more experienced player (maybe gtsrs or Jackal) - iGrok made the point that when the night post talks about two people, and two shots on GGQ that translates as the mafia using 2 KP on him - can one of you confirm this? Cause that would simplify things for us a bit. I guess I am coming across as a bit pompous - I'll try to tone things back a bit. I'll still be doing my damnedest to analyze people and help the newbies out though. And actually, the biggest part about the two people in the Day post is that they were working together. Thats why I'm certain that it was 2 scum hits. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
So far we have learned that iGrok first day has been utterly passive and is following his statement that he will not post anything worthwhile until after day 1, but has instead been using his time to get in our good graces by not stepping on any one's shoes as he wants to be liked by everyone. Currently (at the time of the above posts) I am kind of annoyed by him, but he seems like a very good player (even though he hasn't actually posted anything). I stopped here. So you completely skipped me fighting with Kurumi? Back to reading. You know what, I'm done. I'm sick of defending myself against ridiculous tunnels. I'm sick of not being given credit for helping out newbies and pointing them towards good town play. And, I'm sick of being accused of being GF every time I defend myself. Cya. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
No. I won't "post an actual defense". I've been defending myself all game from bullshit tunnels, and thats only gotten me accused of being not just scum but GF. I may have something though... still thinking about it | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
| ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 10 2011 09:21 Jackal58 wrote: We can't both be GF bucko. How does one defend themselves from the mindless horde? I feel like a Russian in WWZ. You me or Kurumi must be GF. GGQ said so right? I'm vanilla townie. Kurumi hasn't outed himself yet so that leaves you. Amidoinitrite? Well, not quite. Although I would laugh if Kurumi was GF, it doesn't necessarily have to be one of us, and "hasn't outed himself yet" is like the worst argument I've ever heard. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Lol. This game has had more than enough bullshit for me to read. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 10 2011 12:41 freeloader625 wrote: Alright, I'm torn. Although I've felt like xkcd is probably scum and iGrok is just angry at town, I'm going to vote for iGrok. If iGrok was really a townie, why do you care so much about staying alive while your posts "speak otherwise?" You've made it clear that you gave up on this game, yet you were the last one to vote for xkcd, making the vote tally very even as to 11-12 with xkcd leading. If you were really honestly disgruntled at town, why would you care about staying alive? Why push the votes over? Why would you try so hard, again throwing in a few last posts (though those posts state yet again, that you no longer care for town) to stay in game? I have not read your previous game's posts so I'm not sure if that's just your attitude or not. Now as I was writing this Munk-E comes out from left field and defends iGrok. This is very suspicious to me because Munk-E has very few posts. Although Munk-E does accuse Lafali very early on, that probably can be dismissed since at the time I was under such heavy heat. I don't know. If iGrok was really partner mafia and so was Munk-E, its such great timing pushing the vote from 11-11 to 11-12 in kxcd's favor. I'll be going for iGrok. Sorry if you aren't mafia. Rule #1 of mafia: ALWAYS PLAY TO YOUR WIN CONDITION. Just because I'm pissed at certain players doesn't mean I don't want town to win. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 10 2011 15:09 Sprungjeezy wrote: I think we should also try to get this thread made into a movie directed by M Night Shyamalan. Anyways, good night. I second this lol. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
So long and thanks for all the fish! | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Kurumi, I'm sure you won't be hurt by this. In fact, I'm reasonably certain that you'll feel I'm targetting you out of spite. "But I was right!", you'll say. In this case, being right is irrelevant. You are the most terrible mafia player I have ever seen. I would rather have someone like tdAdonis, who didn't post AT ALL, than you. Kurumi is forever banned from any games I host, and I will not be participating in any games he signs up in. Originally, I wasn't going to include gtrsrs in this. I figured, maybe he picked up on something small and thats what his tunnel is about. However, after his personal attacks and general douche-baggery, gtrsrs is permanently banned from all my games as well. To the rest of you, ggwp! Treadmill, I feel bad for you - you made a bad read and it cost you your life. Pyo, you played a really solid game there - I found it amusing when Kurumi turned on you. Apprudds, GGQ and I agree that you were a really good scum player - not to take anything away from the rest of my team, but Pruds really stood out. There are two reasons the Mafia lost this game. 1) Modkills, and thats just the player's faults - its absolutely inexcusable not to vote, especially if you're mafia. 2)Lynch miscounts. If we'd had a proper count of the votes on me, we would have split our votes and or maybe even completely bussed me. Instead, we thought we could save me... and that threw off everything. If the vote count had been correct, and we hadn't gotten modkilled so much - this would have been a VERY different game. BTW, to the vigi who shot Jackal - thanks xD | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 16 2011 09:02 teamsolid wrote: GG, thanks Mods for hosting this game. My 1st one, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. Sucks there were so many mod kills, but what can you do. I would also be curious to see the mafia thread, esp. I wanna see iGrok's reaction to getting accused/getting lynched lol You'll find a ton of plans in there that got ruined by modkills and bad votecounts -_- That vote fiasco really fucked up this game... but other than that it was fun ^^ | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 16 2011 22:10 Kurumi wrote: He actually defended himself and still got lynched,while iGrok just fled. Read the QT. If we'd had an accurate vote count, I would've come back with a claim, causing chaos and a ton of shit. There were contigencies for whether or not that saved me for a day (I knew I would be dead by day 3, though there were even contingencies for if I lived past that. Me leaving the thread for an extended period accomplished its goal of letting other people talk, bring up other targets, and almost succeeded in getting xkcd lynched instead of me. Mafia had really good planning, a completely disorganized town, and all of that was ruined by the xkcd/me fiasco and modkills. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 17 2011 00:04 redFF wrote: can someone post the qt :O http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/g8GZ8p6chTTV I thought Meapak had posted it already lol | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
give me a sec i'll pull some relevant ones lol | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
Alright, here's the grand unified theory of everything. I'm calling you by number - this just simplifies things for the purposes of this project ^^ 1) Day 1 we let play out as it is. Nothing is really being done. I'll analyze Kurumi as a Red - hopefully that will provoke him. Odd #s, agree with me, not too strongly though. #8 advocate a lynch of him, or a detective check if we lynch someone else. #2/4/6 disagree with me publicly. 2) 12 hours before lynch, #2 should restress that we should be suspicious of freeloader and people who voted early. I know you're one of them, but say that you weren't thinking about it and after reading more about meta that you removed your vote. This is good because it will refocus attention elsewhere and make you seem a bit humble and slightly like a town newbie whos just trying to play well. 3) Our N1 targets will be GGQ, Jackal, and Vain. We should double-stack GGQ to be sure he dies (use two hits on him). He is by far the strongest mafia player here. I'll frame Kurumi and hope he gets checked xD 3) I have already crumbed that I am a vigilante - dw about where I will show you in time ^^. The point is that I can back up my claim. I will be calling for a DT Check on myself N1, since I can assign my role to return Vigi - hopefully this will also draw a DT into the open! I will claim at the start of D2, claiming a hit and that I was protected. I will then pull medic attention. My reasoning will be "Now town gets 2 lynches and a confirmed Blue". I'll play it semi-democratically as well - obviously I won't shoot you but I can't go against everyone if they unite (which they won't). This also gives one of you reason to claim medic. DON'T claim it D2 or even D3 unless things really change. Clear it here first before claiming ANYTHING. 4) As a confirmed Vigi, I'll draw medic protects away from other targets who we'll be hitting. This way we won't have to worry about double-stacking after N1. I'll also have an even more powerful voice in the Town ^^. 5) Ideally, D2 will be like this: I am confirmed Vigilante by town, GGQ, Jackal, and Vain are dead, Freeloader was lynched, kurumi looks hella scummy, and our team is represented on both sides of the issue. We'll go from there. + Show Spoiler + iGrok's Unified Theory of Everything Part II. I have a suspicion that gtrsrs is blue. Possibly vigilante. He would be a good RB target. I think Jackal is green. We have 3 kp. We need to doublestack GGQ, both in case theres another medic and in case hes a Vigi. GGQ is a damn good town player, unlike Jackal whos a really good scum player :p. Doublestacking will also hide a KP, and let me claim that I was protected last night. This will be misinformation and will raise false hope for the town. Vain will be a problem if he is a DT. Maybe RB him as well? Other than that, idk... hitting treadmill seems obvious, but perhaps we should wait until N2 to do that. + Show Spoiler + I know how to save myself, and cause utter confusion in town. IF I'M IN THE LEAD OR TIED AT 6 HOURS TO LYNCH, I'm going to claim vigilante. I will use my first-post crumb as evidence. I will say that I'm sure I'll be hit by mafia tonight anyways, so that why I don't mind stepping forward. I'll offer a popular-vote kill on whoever the town as a collective wants dead. Lets do the math on that. Amazing xkcd is lynched, and we get 3 kills at night (I suggest Kurumi, gtrsrs, and Pyo for reasons that are TOTALLY not personal :p). That leaves 29 players alive. I will immediately be lynched D3 (unless they ask me to shoot someone we want to hit anyways lol , or I am vigid). If I am vigi'd, GET TREADMILL LYNCHED. That should be incredibly easy. As always, wait the first 24hrs to see if anyone else brings it up, and if not then bring it up yourself. 28 alive, 5 scum (TheAwesomeAll, grush57, 35spike1, Munk-E, and aprudds). 3 hits to use. Now, who among townies are good kills? People who can do analysis are good targets. CjrNinja is a good target. Jackal58 is a good target. Impervious is a good target. heist and supersoft are secondary targets. All of these players can do good analysis, and should be viewed as threats. What we should be aiming for now is causing the town to lose discussion, and eventually lose hope. Once all of these people are dead, town will have no strong analyzers or strong thread voices. At this point all you have to do is follow others (maybe one of you could try to assume leadership, but it'll be up to you whether or not thats a good call. Basically, at this point you don't really want to draw attention to yourself. I'll be drawing all the attention to me. Another good thing is that we'll be able to see who the DTs are if they've checked me. I chose to return "Veteran" to DT checks - hopefully, a DT who has checked me will slip up and you can hit him first! Even if all my vigi claim does is find a DT, I'll consider it a success. Day 4, we'll be sitting at 22 players, 5 of whom are mafia, and with all of the strongly analytical players dead. Like I said above, just sheep around, let town kill itself, and most importantly, HAVE PREPARED ACCUSATIONS on other players to distract town if one of us is targeted. Some iterations of my planning as the game progressed. The rookie bandwagon came around and messed up the first one, only to make things even better. Spoiler 3 should explain how the Votecount situation completely screwed us. | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
The miscounting happened in the first official count - thats what fucked us over, and thats why it took so long to resolve. @gtrsrs, 1) you don't "play an aggressive style". I'll give you credit that maybe you read something off of my spat with kurumi. Maybe. The "lol umad?" shit is completely unacceptable here... this isn't a shithole like epicmafia. Learn to be more civil, and eventually, maybe, you'll be unbanned. 2) I didn't ragequit, I stopped posting to let things cool off and get other people posting, to lose some of the focus from me. 3) The reason I "didn't claim anyways" was because I thought I was clear. Claiming vigi would have been EXTREMELY risky, especially since I returned Veteran to DT checks. 4) Scum team would have been fine, but several of our members fucked up the vote deadline and got modkilled the day after I was lynched. 5) GGQ is right about why I'm calling you a d-bag. Its cause you are, not cause I lost. And for emphasis; epicmafia : TL Mafia :: BNet Forums : TL Forums | ||
|
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On June 16 2011 07:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I have a PM from iGrok where he guessed the setup almost perfectly, I'll have to post that when I find it. Please post this... I remember it but can't find it either! | ||
| ||
(also no offense to kurumi)
