TL Mafia XL - Page 5

Pyo

United States738 Posts

June 16 2011 16:57 GMT

#1486

Hmm, I haven't finished going through the whole mafia QT thread, but there are some points here that I'm confused about.

On June 17 2011 00:39 iGrok wrote:
1) Day 1 we let play out as it is. Nothing is really being done. I'll analyze Kurumi as a Red - hopefully that will provoke him. Odd #s, agree with me, not too strongly though. #8 advocate a lynch of him, or a detective check if we lynch someone else. #2/4/6 disagree with me publicly.

wait, didn't you analyze Kurumi as town? That was way before the rookie thing even came up.

3) Our N1 targets will be GGQ, Jackal, and Vain. We should double-stack GGQ to be sure he dies (use two hits on him). He is by far the strongest mafia player here. I'll frame Kurumi and hope he gets checked xD

Ahh, I finally understand why you guys double hit GGQ, it allows one of the mafia to claim vet/medic. I had been wondering about this since day 2, since I really didn't buy that eliminating a strong player early on was a sufficiently good reason to eliminate someone (however, GGQ's response to this point in an earlier post suggests that it might actually be).

3) I have already crumbed that I am a vigilante - dw about where I will show you in time ^^. The point is that I can back up my claim. I will be calling for a DT Check on myself N1, since I can assign my role to return Vigi - hopefully this will also draw a DT into the open! I will claim at the start of D2, claiming a hit and that I was protected. I will then pull medic attention. My reasoning will be "Now town gets 2 lynches and a confirmed Blue". I'll play it semi-democratically as well - obviously I won't shoot you but I can't go against everyone if they unite (which they won't).

This also gives one of you reason to claim medic. DON'T claim it D2 or even D3 unless things really change. Clear it here first before claiming ANYTHING.

4) As a confirmed Vigi, I'll draw medic protects away from other targets who we'll be hitting. This way we won't have to worry about double-stacking after N1. I'll also have an even more powerful voice in the Town ^^.

I don't think anyone picked up on your crumbles. I don't really understand this. You were talking way too much and drawing way too much attention to be a blue in my mind.

I have a suspicion that gtrsrs is blue. Possibly vigilante. He would be a good RB target.

I really don't get this read. Especially considering this was a newbie mafia, there is no way gtrsrs was a blue and was drawing so much attention. I think both this point and the one above are misplays/misreads on your part in the sense that you expect/allow for blues to be more outspoken then I think it is reasonable.

I think Jackal is green.

We have 3 kp. We need to doublestack GGQ, both in case theres another medic and in case hes a Vigi. GGQ is a damn good town player, unlike Jackal whos a really good scum player :p. Doublestacking will also hide a KP, and let me claim that I was protected last night. This will be misinformation and will raise false hope for the town.

Vain will be a problem if he is a DT. Maybe RB him as well?

Other than that, idk... hitting treadmill seems obvious, but perhaps we should wait until N2 to do that.

So I guess as of the end of night 1 you had no idea how much trouble you were in/about to be in. GGQ's dying post really did you in.

I know how to save myself, and cause utter confusion in town.

IF I'M IN THE LEAD OR TIED AT 6 HOURS TO LYNCH, I'm going to claim vigilante. I will use my first-post crumb as evidence. I will say that I'm sure I'll be hit by mafia tonight anyways, so that why I don't mind stepping forward. I'll offer a popular-vote kill on whoever the town as a collective wants dead. Lets do the math on that.

Some iterations of my planning as the game progressed. The rookie bandwagon came around and messed up the first one, only to make things even better. Spoiler 3 should explain how the Votecount situation completely screwed us.

The miscounting didn't happen until the final tally, so I don't really buy that it caused the mafia to fail to save you iGrok. However, two of the mafia not voting period most certainly did screw you over as their votes could have swayed it in favor of xkcd, but at that point all of the mafia would have voted for xkcd and that would have been the end.

Pyo

United States738 Posts

June 16 2011 19:16 GMT

#1497

On June 17 2011 03:00 GGQ wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think it's just this part that he's calling you a douchebag for. While you were right about iGrok, you didn't do a lot of convincing for the other townies. My advice to you would be to work on having a stronger thread presence.

"Thread presence" is an interesting concept that hasn't really been thoroughly analyzed in any of the guides as far as I've seen. The cool thing about it is that it isn't really correlated with how much or even what you say. It is also interesting how one can gain thread presence or lose it simply by what others say. I mean let's consider this past game and some of the players that had (and didn't have) thread presence for different reasons:

Kurumi
Kurumi is a case where having a lot to say and engaging with a number of people doesn't necessarily give you thread presence. He started right off the bat making a number of accusations and drawing a lot of attention. But as soon as people picked up on this and as soon as it was pointed out that he has a history of nonsense posting. He was immediately relegated to the village idiot, and no accusation he made carried any weight anymore. This is important because in order for you to be able to apply pressure on mafia, your accusation has to mean something.

GGQ
GGQ is sort of a counter point to Kurumi. He really didn't post a whole lot, but all of them carried a lot meaning. Quite frankly, one of his posts basically set in motion the events that ultimately won town the game. If anyone "single-handedly" won us the game, it was him. So how was he able to do it? Well first off, he had to make good posts that carried good analysis. But I don't really think this was the key point (see jackal bellow). The key moment in establishing himself was actually iGrok gifting him thread presence by stating that he was an experienced player who knew what he was doing, and no one challenged this (see vain bellow).

jackal
In this game, jackal really didn't do much, yet was able cause a day 1 lynch with one post. His analysis wasn't anything spectacular and he didn't really do much to establish himself as having thread presence, so why did everyone bandwagon with him? Well because iGrok said he was a good player and no one challenged this. This is a clear example of how one can give someone else cred. jackal is also a clear example of why one must be cognizant of their thread presence. One post by him was able to set of a bandwagon, and the mafia didn't even have to do anything.

vain
Vain is sort of the counter example to one gets thread presence simply by having someone else give it to them. iGrok included vain in his list of experienced players, but it really didn't feel like he had any thread presence at all throughout the game. While some of this could be attributed to GGQ drawing suspicion on him, that doesn't really explain day 1. After the role list came out, it became clear what was going on. Vain was a medic. Basically, he didn't want/need thread presence so he didn't really do or say much. Ultimately, I think he played his role perfectly (except for protecting kurumi). He allowed just enough suspicion to be placed on him that mafia wouldn't kill him, but not enough that town would lynch him.

iGrok
iGrok is an interesting case because he was actively seeking thread presence and in a way he got it, however it quickly backfired. He began by distinguishing himself with haikus. This immediately made him stand out, which was his goal I guess. At this point he sort of claimed experience and with his thread presence basically established several other players as being experienced as well. Then he pushed it too far. His long analysis of kurumi (who had nothing said nothing worthy of being analyzed), asking for others' opinions of his analysis, asking for an analysis of himself - all of these things really felt like he was just trying to lead discussion without actually doing anything. And ultimately, none of his accusations or efforts to draw negative attention on anyone were really all that successful. Newbie that I am read it as him being a self-important douche, but GGQ read it correctly as him being the GF.

So what have I learned from this game?
1. There are a couple ways to gain immediate presence:
- spam/active posting
- do something cutesy or unique
- be given it by someone else
2. Each of these can backfire or cause you to lost thread presence if pushed too hard:
- spam too much and you'll be lynched or ignored
- act overly cutesy and you'll draw the wrong kind of attention
- lying low can shed yourself of attention/presence
3. I feel like this can be applied to scum strategy, particular in cases where not everyone knows each other. If iGrok really wanted to gain town cred/thread presence, he probably should have had one of the other mafia be the one that established him as an experienced player (sort of the Julius Caesar approach). If you look at the impact to post count ratio of GGQ and jackal and compare it to iGrok, it's really astounding. I mean even after GGQ was dead, his post was being quoted and his points restated well into the third day.

Well anyway, I think I've just about milked this game of everything I can from the town's perspective.

Pyo

United States738 Posts

June 16 2011 20:39 GMT

#1499

Wow the mafia QT was really insightful.

Pruds 06-08-2011 03:22 AM ET (US)
Pyo is either veteran or completely retarded. He's practically asking for a shot and that means he either wants to take it or die. Look at his posts.

I knew I was in danger. I realized I was coming off as too obviously town, but given that i was green townie, it might have been a good thing anyway.

Pruds 06-08-2011 12:50 PM ET (US)
Kurumi is retarded lol. His posts make no sense.

There are so many of these posts, I can't help but laugh.

Pruds 06-08-2011 04:21 PM ET (US)
LOL I even got Pyo derailed off igrok

lol, this was masterfully done. Now I know what to look out for. The sudden surge in activity should have been really telling.

iGrok 06-09-2011 11:20 PM ET (US)
he's doing it right now -_-

I can count too, and I counted 12-11 xkcd

lol, fail.

Pruds 06-09-2011 11:28 PM ET (US)
if xkcd was any smart, he would unvote jackal and vote you grok

QFT

Grush57 06-10-2011 12:02 PM ET (US)
nvm found it. ill rb pyo just cuz.

lol

Looking back, TheAwesomeAll and 35spike had some really obvious tells that no one really picked up on. Some of Munk-E's posting was a little bizarre too. By the end, I was sure he was scum, but some of his posts were so pro-town to the point that they kind of screwed over the mafia a little.

All in all, I'd say mafia MVP goes to appruds. Definitely the brains of their outfit (sorry iGrok

Pyo

United States738 Posts

June 17 2011 23:17 GMT

#1514

On June 18 2011 06:58 gtrsrs wrote:
and i'm glad you approved of my bulldogging. i feel like when iGrok *stopped* posting haiku's at my request was when i knew i had him by the balls. if *i* then toned down my attitude at others requests, i was just as scummy as him, trying to save my own skin instead of playing for the greater good of the town

Actually, iGrok stopped posting haikus because the other mafia (Munk-E) told him to stop because it was stupid.

Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All

Please or register to reply.

TL Mafia XL - Page 5

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming