EPTI have one or the other role idea :3
Pick Their Power Mafia
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Mataza
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I have one or the other role idea :3 | ||
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Mataza
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We give out the roles before we are given alignments, no? Will there be roles with parts held secret(like insane/paranoid/naive cop, you´re not told something pretty important)? Or is every role exactly what it say on the tin? | ||
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Just had a paranoia fit, because I thought there could be something *insane*, like a cpr doc that thinks he is a real doc. | ||
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On May 30 2011 04:03 deconduo wrote: Remember that the person you are picking for shouldn't know that you are the one picking their role, so please don't announce/hint it in the thread before the game starts. But Karshe´s question is quite intriguing in my opinion. I mean role knowledge is super powerful for town and practically impossible to fake for mafia, unless you and the person you pick for are mafia. Also I think it would be less fun if there is not some wtf moment. I thought it was the point of the game. (And no, I am not mafia, alignments haven´t been send out yet) | ||
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Mataza
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Man, I hope if there is a rolechecker, host has awesome humor and does shit like that. | ||
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I see it coming one day. Batman mafia. Everyone will be Batman, | ||
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Begin this! | ||
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No seriously, you just made me go back looking what alignment I was because I only checked my role the first time^^ | ||
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Town hates traitors and I can´t imagine people getting traitor being unsatisfied, no? It is the exact opposite! | ||
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This is just witty pregame banter as far as I´m concerned. Ok, it´s also half complaining, but I complain all the time. It just come natural to me to complain. And no shit, my role is nothing like all the fabled zombie/suicide bomber/body guard/vote rigger epic combination stuff people talked about before the game. I just wanted to be Batman^^ | ||
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I bet Batman is read because he is the dark knight, taking someone else´s crimes on him because he is a damn martyr. You know, like a miller. | ||
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"He hinted that he indeed has a role. LYNCH HIM" Ah and now that the game begun it´s time to stop posting nonsense. Not being excited about my role shouldn´t proof anything really. I mean we are 33 people who each gave someone else a role. Is it that hard to believe that I got a role that I do not find exciting? Also this thread moves on pretty fast | ||
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That´s the easiest way they can lie about their role. And guys, last game was last game. Just because I died on a risky plan no one liked doesn´t mean I do it all the time. | ||
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You are right with your opinion, but your conclusion is wrong. Mafia would still not know where the role landed, because the plan was to say what role we gave away, not what we got. | ||
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How would our host balance? If there are no KP roles(Since mafia has only 1 KP in a 30 player game), it means to me that we either have neutrals filled in to balance the game out. Is that a possibility, or did our fine town fill the roster with kp? | ||
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I hope we have a verifiable rolechecker, because without it´s gonna be hard to enforce liar policy lynches. Just saying. | ||
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I´m going to be sleeping soon, it´s 11 in the evening here. Right now I fear the amount of posts I will have to read tomorrow xD | ||
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Because high prioirity targets get targeted(obviously), the list gets smaller all by itself, which means you might check someone who dies the same night/gets framed. And poor Amber. (Whatever I try to write, it sounds dumb) I hope you´re not mafia, because it´s gionna be hard to analyze bark, whimper and growl. | ||
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But Amber being a dog doesn´t proof anything. For all we know there could be some weird stuff in this game like a mime who knows everyones role but can´t speak. The only way we find out reliably is having that person dead or a rolecheck by someone confirmed. | ||
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Yes, grrr means disapproval and wiggling the tail means approval/happiness. I congratulate you all to your first pet. Instead of stupid morse code(that shit gets freakingly huge fast), we should ask directly so Amber can quote and answer the question. Amber, are you a dog with special powers? Or are you only unable to speak? If first is true, do you have any meaningful knowledge advantage(from being a dog, not as player)? | ||
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I think the people on the list are more prone to any night actions, by town and mafia alike. Checks inside the list have a higher chance to be framed or otherwise messed with. So logically these people would be targeted by mafia while there probably is one or more scum inside the list too. But I do not have any experience with zodiac lists yet, so take my opinion with a spoon of salt. Playing the first time with most people I do not have any authority on this, but the people I heard about being around longer are: + Show Spoiler + Kenpachi Varpulis tnkted Node bumatlarge Amber[LighT] BloodyC0bbler People I have also heard about are: + Show Spoiler + Mr. Wiggles GMarshal sandroba kitaman27 Barundar Meapak_Ziphh I checked just now and I am not that far away from the actual 6 person list that was posted by Sandroba. I am still a bit confused what we are supposed to do with lists. Medic protection of course, but dt checks inside or outside the list? And you veteran people: Would anyone you know post an anti town role before knowing his own alignment? I fear it´s unlikely, yet possible that we have misinformation role(s). What I mean is, if there is few to no misinformation roles, it´s safe to check inside the Zodiac list. But if there are, it suddenly becomes a questionable decision. | ||
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Even though we had some telling questions Amber did not react to them. Knowing if our super duper dog has night powers or bonus knowledge for being unable to communicate would be my first priority if I was the dog. Since he didn´t answer those, I guess he is either not allowed to answer those questions or only allowed to communicate with certain people. Also since he answered to "do you want me to focus on you" with a yes, there is either something Amber has to tell us or Amber is forced to crave for attention. I sure hope Amber won´t die from being ignored, that´d be cruel. | ||
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Just kidding. But if Amber deserved a check, then Palmar certainly does too. While we´re at it, I think Fistpounding does something. Besides pounding the fist of the other guy... It would be hilarious if people lost their life if he fistpounded them a second time. But that´s too crazy right? I´m going to sleep now. Have fun fistpounding and take care of the doggie. Ah, and find Mafia while you´re at it, ok? | ||
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#fistpound Palmar Let your power explode! So yeah, I have put marks down in the thread and will be back shortly after reading more indepth. | ||
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So here´s the thing: There are things we are not expecting(yes obvious). We have 33 people and 33 roles. Yet Mafia have only 1 Kill per night. A reasonable amount of people for scumteam would be somewhere around 5-9. This is not slightly off balance, this is "WTF is this shit?". Looking at these numbers, I would refuse to play the mafia side, because of pointlessness. So my take is that there is a huge area we don´t know shit about. I could think of several options, but the point is, this is not helpful. I just mean to say we shouldn´t be surprised to either 1) see people killing without actually having a killing role. 2) see that mafia team has a strong density of killing roles. 3) find out that we have a rather high number of neutrals(like upwards of 4) Now this info alone is useless. However it would become more useful if we had an idea about the number of existing killing roles. Come the next day I would suggest claiming whether or not one assigned a misinformation or killing role. Because killing and misinformation are the antitown traits we should get a grip on them. In another instance, I reread kitaman27, chaos13, meapak, varpulis and cthsazsa. None of them scream red to me after rereading. Varpulis has been a bit erratic since before the game. cthsazsa has been extremely short in posting. Nothing much to work with, other than added unusefulness. chaos13 seems rather legit. Other than asking why Karshe paid attention to his list, talking about the only person on the list he knows, there has been nothing odd. Meapak was maybe a bad call by me to check in the first place. Without any meta knowledge I´d say he looks 100% ok. Then again, people often use past games to judge veterans and I didn´t. Kitaman27 on the other hand is experienced and looks quite erratic. Rather short and unhelpful, while also very quick to vote. Unless some vets tell me that is normal, this is going down as scummy in my book. His only longer post is about Mason roles in general. Everything else is short and choppy. Barring an extraordinary defense, Kitaman27 is guilty in my eyes. | ||
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I should doubleread y.y Yes, one of those 5 people kinda screamed red to me. The moment I wrote that line I was not considering Kita specifically. Also the possibilty of Kita behaving like Ace clouded my mind. No one behaves like Ace all of a sudden. | ||
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At least I am not looking into any jokes or small talk from you. I am looking at this: On May 31 2011 07:49 kitaman27 wrote: Kats analyze when they feel like it. Not when they're told. Voting varp cause he's scum. Maybe I am just blind, but where is your case? You first announce your vote and then 3 hours later you deliver reasons for it? Normally I know why I vote at the moment I vote. And those aren´t outstanding reasons, are they? On May 31 2011 10:22 kitaman27 wrote: meh mostly a random vote to get things started. Spammy, apologetic, and posting fluff. He tells town we should be looking elsewhere, without providing suspicions of his own. (redacted) Also you want us to cut on the useless discussions, yet you you didn´t contribute anything noteworthy, even though you posted. Yes, mason roles are good, obviously. That doesn´t count as contribution. So please go ahead and start helping town. Pointing out bad ideas is the least useful contribution since it doesn´t lead to anything getting done. And on a side note, I so hoped Bros would have a PM circle. Darn. | ||
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Ya know, the last thing I wanna risk is having a bro´s ego inflated by fistpounds, making him explode or something. No really, if ya share love ya gotta also share knowledge. | ||
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First of all, there is not much of kitatrain right now. Secondly, the "I won´t change unless you bring a solid defense" is what you did as mafia, too. Problem is, you CANNOT have a solid defense in a mafia game. Doubt is the normal state towards everyone. You might as well ask for the holy grail before the crusade even begun. And I don´t exactly buy that more fistpounds are beneficial without any strict numbers behind it. Carrying over to the next day I could understand. Increments tied to certain numbers I could understand. But every single fistpound being beneficial is just weird. It has to be either percentual increments or full numbers of people then. And full numbers of people is what I greatly fear. Last game, you broke this bros heart. This time it ain´t gonna be fixed with a fistpound and smile. Imma never trust you again. | ||
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I looked into 5 people who gave me a strange gut feeling, and only kitaman actually kept giving me that after rereading. Its a pretty weak case, and I consider his role and his meta behaviour to be possible explanations. I can´t truly judge his meta behaviour, but his responses are unsatisfactory so far. That´s all there is to it from my side. | ||
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Every little thing you read influences it. It may change several times a day. A vote, on the other hand, is a big commitment to me. It is my sign of dedication towards my opinion. It won´t move that easily, and therefore placing my vote should have a greater impact. | ||
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But there is also no point to it. He got a strange role, get over it. | ||
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Also lightning reveals. Keep than in mind for day2. | ||
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On the other hand, everyone is gonna read out of the analysis what they want to, so it will always seem smart. That is, because we are only presented puzzle pieces and put them together ourselves. Still, Sandroba dropped under the radar, that much is true. | ||
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You are just arguing for the sake of disagreement... | ||
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On May 30 2011 06:24 sandroba wrote: Hey guys, I'll be on the US on vacation from may 31 - june 15, so you won't be seing my usual 10+ posts per day, but I will be active anyway. Just don't kill me on meta pls =). | ||
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On a more serious note I don´t like people who announce pro town behaviour but don´t really get around to it. Deskscaress remains rather inconclusive in his longer posts. He is a bit caught up in the concept of WIFOM, and that is at least an indicator that he is not our savior. WIFOM is for people who are not immune to the poison put in the drink after all. And Palmars role could be seriously anything. I even hope it contains a bro fist deathray as that would be utterly hilarious. "He ran, but he couldn´t really flee. The last thing he heard was a deafening "Brooooooo!". The next day he was found dead due to fistpound related injuries. Always get some brotection, bro" I wouldn´t care much if I lose as long as that was the reason. | ||
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Is that part of your role or are you just spamming like an idiot? | ||
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And here is the BUT: Giving info about who you picked for is painting targets on people and no one knows on whom the targets are. They can easily interrupt confirmation chains by killing every second person along a string. They kill x people and discredit x people while they do it. Additionally they know their own roles as the ones they´ve picked for others they gain a HUGE knowledge advantage. What we should instead do is make known the number of killing and misinformation capable roles. That´s the bad stuff. Especially the Killing Power. Either the scum team is stacked with those or there are mechanics we don´t know anything about yet. I talked about that before. Because without killing power, misinformation, or alternate kill mechanics, this game is practically impossible for mafia to win. | ||
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Your entire point was to claim so you can verify claims later on. If you take that part away, the only thing your plan would be good for is stopping mafia to back up each others roleclaims. BUT they wouldn´t be able to do that if they would not know who picked their role. So what is the point of your plan again? | ||
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Your plan prevents something from happening that won´t happen unless your plan was done already. You say w/out your plan mafia can claim any role they want. But they can´t unless they somehow find out who created their roles. And right now your plan reveals exactly that. | ||
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I thought Amber could only bark and tailwag. And then I question Viscera being on it. Maybe that is because I know him from last game. But he said at one point he is picking up no scumread and he is just waiting for something big happening. I´m not aware of a reason he should be on the fabled zodiac list, let alone Sandroba which Amber voted for. On second thought, why the HELL is Sandroba on Ambers list? I assume this to be a lie until Amber barks personally. ##vote redff | ||
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On June 01 2011 07:38 GMarshal wrote: We are done discussing a plan that will not be put into place. Both sides have been pretty clearly laid out. Instead answer these questions. 1.) If you were a vigilante who would you shoot tonight 2.) if you were a kingmaker who would you make king tomorrow 3.) what is your favorite colour 4.) Of all the players with more than ten posts in the game at the moment, which seem the scummiest? Since its directed at me: 1) I wouldn´t shoot. If I was compulsive, I´d shoot cthsazsa. Few posts, even less content. 2) This is hard to say. Dropbear over Cobbler. 3) This is not a dating show 4) Right now, redff. Before that, Palmar. If I could include more(seem means plural) Varpulis, Chaos13 and Kitaman 27 too. | ||
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On June 01 2011 08:15 redFF wrote: Mataza, you have posted nothing of use this game. And you saying you are voting me until Amber wiggles his tail to confirm i posted his list is a huge contradiction to something you seemed pretty steadfast on before. So you are certain I'm scum and won't change your vote? I am very suspicious of your list, because Sandroba is on the list. Amber is voting Sandroba right now. I thought I bolded that part. This list is a direct contradiction to Ambers vote. | ||
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That´s 7 hours ago. I know you were online at least 5 hours ago in irc and also continuously from 2 hours ago to about 1 hour ago. As from time of this post, you posted the list about 1 hour ago. Either Amber just came online just a bit before you posted the list, or the list should have been in you pm box for several hours, during which you were online and did not post it. | ||
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If Amber came online to PM you the list right before you posted it, Amber could as well show up in the thread that time. | ||
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On June 01 2011 08:48 redFF wrote: sigh..Do i really have to explain this to you. My memory is foggy and i really can't be bothered to convert korean times to eastern but ill try to explain. Last night I pm'd amber with a list of players and asked him to quote the list and wiggle his tail for town and grr for scum. He then quoted a post by gm about zodiac lists, bolded the zodiac list part and then bolded a bunch of player lists. I checked my pm's early this morning before I went out and saw what he did. I got home at like 4:30 today and went on irc, so i've been on irc for about 3 and a half hours...(its 8 now) I pm'd amber for confirmation that he wanted me to post his zodiac list and he wiggled his tail, so i did...Please stop lol. He apologizes with a foggy memory for things that happened 1-3 hours ago. I would have believe that if he said he was extremely drunk. Also if Amber answered his PM, it means Amber was online. Why didn´t Amber post even once in the thread? I do hope Amber will talk again sometime today. Until then I´m assuming Amber can´t talk because of your role power. On Tackster, I find it hilarious that people actually say he is all over TL posting and spamming. If you check his profile it say 3 posts in the last 7 days. All of which are obviously in this game. I agree on his low posting quality though. He will probably not make town MVP, but in my book he is an inactive player more than everything else. I am puzzled by tnkted however. He is taunting us with his invulnerability. [b]Absolute Invulnerability[/b], to be precise. Strange, but arguing about that is essentially wifom. Town would do that because of a power complex, and scum would do that because it´s a nice bluff. If he is indeed invulnerable, it would automatically mean he is town and not the mole, because a freaking invulnerable scum would be kinda op. So no, I don´t think he is invulnerable at all. | ||
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I may have misread, but I think someone mentioned that he changed his posting behaviour because of RL drama. Can´t find the post now, but I think it was said. *I do not defend his shoddy posting quality, I attack the argument that he should be more active because he was in the past.* If he actually didn´t have any RL problems, I am of course wrong here. My bad. My "defense" of Varpulis consisted of me saying his name along with a few others and then saying he was posting quirky even before he got his alignment. And nice theory there. I am scum, therefore everyone I defend is scum too. Now please tell me how are events that are at best 3 hours in the past are foggy in your mind? That´s a weak excuse at best. Either Amber was online around the time you posted(and he didn´t post anything) or you didn´t post the list for several hours despite you being online. How can you not remember? | ||
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I would think it pretty strange that votes on tackster straightout become invalid. It would be gamebreaking like tnkteds claim that he cannot be lynched nor killed. I just cannot imagine those things to be in the game. | ||
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My fear though is that tnkted, if his role is really as good as he states, will not ever feel pressured at all, even if he is on the list. On the other hand, I still fear that redff´s role might prevent Amber from posting. If Amber doesn´t post anymore today, I would like a medic to throw a little lifesaver his way, so we can ask questions tomorrow. @stefftastiq Drop the fear. The insecurity you are emitting is cringeworthy. If you think your analysis is weak, don´t show it. Act like its the best analysis ever. I know you from snmm2, and I´m happy that you are actively participating this time. However, remind yourself that all the vets in this game are as clueless as we are. I am pretty sure about that at this point. | ||
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What doesn´t sit well with me is that redff immediately put FoS on me and anyone I have defended in his eyes. Or that he apologized with hazy memory of the then recent last 3 hours. And now Kurumi is at it again >.< | ||
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GMarshal threatened Kurumi with a bullet too. I strongly recommend to not policy shoot at night. For all we know Mafia could be stacked with kp roles. I said this earlier, but there is clearly a gray area in this game. Mafia has fixed 1 kp, so they must have other means of killing us. If they indeed have lots of killing roles, announcing policy shots looks pretty antitown to me. | ||
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fact: tnkted got voted on before tackster, so no, he the "tnkted train" didn´t suddenly come to life, it was there beforehand. "Sandro train" was started by a fricking dog. Of these 3 I would be most ok with losing tackster, as he is the least useful. What I would prefer is lynching someone like tnkted. if he speaks the truth its essentially a no lynch to vote him. | ||
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Claiming it stops it from absorbing any kp, therefore reducing the usefulness of the role. | ||
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I posted that placeholder because I was considering putting my vote where it would actually make a difference. However if you ask, it´s a damn tough call. We may choose between tackster, who is practically inactive and will get modkilled if he doesn´t vote; sandroba, who got really believably upset in his own defense; tnkted, who claims being invulnerable until some later point; and viscera, who is, well, viscera. I know him from last game and I kinda feel bad for him. tnkted, you could have simply avoided drawing suspicion by, you know, playing pro town and helping discussion. Also, if Town has more KP than mafia, than we should be even more careful with it. I´m not ok with putting the whole game on the gutfeeling of some hidden people. Also, you have to acknowledge that claiming invulnerability removes a lot of suspicion from you. No one is going to discuss what the untouchable does. And that´s the part that makes me suspicious. You could claim easily what you want, if your role creator is on your team. | ||
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I can only read with half an eye right because i got stuff to do. I believe palmar with his claim on chaos 13 ## vote chaos13 | ||
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And apparently Viscera behaved exactly the same as in snmm2. I however do not think we should be that liberal with our killing powers. For all I can guess town kp are limited. And even unhelfpul townies count towards the number of living townies, which are kinda important to not lose. So not senseless shooting please. So my proposal for action is: Jokeratlarge gogo kill As for other night actions, if you can determine alignment go check tnkted. Palmar, do we have a clear read on Varpulis from overfistpounding or just your analysis? | ||
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Btw can you get fistpounds at night too? ##fistpound Palmar Just in case. And killing chaos13 should be a nobrainer. Palmar declared himself some sort of fistpound-driven alignment checker. If you flip town, Palmar is marked for death. | ||
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Nevermind the killorder then... | ||
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He claimed that the PM he got from decon said chaos13 is scum. Of course, when Palmar says he only knows that chaos13 has funny clothing and a gun, it becomes invalid. On June 02 2011 05:17 Palmar wrote: I'm calling you scum because you're scum. Also because your pm from dec said so. Good enough reasoning for me bro. On June 02 2011 06:50 Palmar wrote: You have a funny hat and a cigar, and you're holding a submachine gun. There, my analysis. Kill him please. I once thought Palmar was better than this. Now he is even trying to direct as many killing power as possible. Please someone credible reiterate that we should not vigi shoot on policy and hunches. | ||
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All day people call me scummy, I can accept that. What I find intriguing is that even though there never was any vote on me besides Tackster´s and no noteworthy case I recall, I am suddenly #1 vigihit. Redff is basically angry in my eyes, he began suspecting me after I put my vote on him and has constructed from the fact that I said I don´t want to prematurely vote and still voted him that i must be scum, along with anyone I defended. First, it´s OMGUS. I accuse, he accuses right back and with what fervor. Second, me, if i was scum, defending only my partners in crime is the worst assumption ever. Remember plz that Amber talking up again took about half a day. It was entirely plausible that redff´s role would stop the targeted player from speaking for the second half of the day. A possibility. So after a day of watching redff my verdict is obviously angry townie. He reminds me a bit of Viscera and Kurumi in this regard. Palmar on the other hand went back up on my scum radar. He doesn´t know how quick town will die this game, but yet he demands for 4 hits by town. Assuming that we get 3-7 other kills from scumteam, assassins and mad townplayer with guns, we would lose a third of the players in this game just this night. And most of the dead are gonna be town. You can´t be serious, bro. | ||
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If anyone has a role that can reveal who visits Sinani tonight, do that. The point is, even if Bloodycobbler comes back and we kill Bum and Cobbler is only a vanilla townie, we should still do it. Town play happens during day and you don´t need a role for it. In other words, Bloodycobbler as Vanilla town is still a bigger help than most other townies. Make it happen, Bum. Also, while we´re here. @Chaos13 Is it accurate that you have a funny hat a cigar and a submachine gun? If your answer is no then Palmar is imho lying about his rolecheckpower. And that would mean we still don´t know what Palmar fistpound power does. To quote Karshe, he could have a brofistdeathray for all we know. | ||
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On June 02 2011 06:50 Palmar wrote: You have a funny hat and a cigar, and you're holding a submachine gun. There, my analysis. Kill him please. Either that is the result of your check or its outright dumb. If you say its not a rolecheck, then please explain yourself. | ||
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Compare Palmar this game to Palmar in SNM2 where he was scum. His current playstyle reminds me a lot of that, including conditional voting. You might need to look hard for conditional voting, but I think he did at some point. Something like "Bro, I switch my vote to xx when he gets 2 more votes first" As for meta judgment on other players from snm2, Prplhz behaves different(bad sign), Karshe seems to behave about the same(good sign), and hiro seems to be a lot more active(good sign). For day2 I would advise to get a grip on how many kp and misinformation roles are out there. For example, Bum obviously has kp and kurumi claimed to have kp too. If Bum did not shoot at Sinani tonight, he should definitely die. Hope to see you tomorrow. | ||
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I mean he´s an intentionally useless lurker, I would be happy to know if he´s a scum lurker or not. And before I forget #fistpound Palmar I hope you get lucky again | ||
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If not, I´m having a lot less trouble today. | ||
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Cut back on sugar and coffeine and then maybe I will pay attention to you again. Look at Visceras post, then look back at your own. I am convinced you are innocent, but that doesn´t make you right. | ||
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Cobbler stated that it was all he was allowed to post. So decon prolly forbade him to say "dayvig sinani so I can live" Btw I´m cool with turning the Black Motherfucker back into vanilla. KP and misinformation are antitown in itself. Town wants detective type roles. We have 1 unclaimed kp this night. That means if all the shooters tonight are town and they just did not FUCKING SHOOT SEMIRANDOMLY, we would have only lost 2 guys. Instead we lost 6(Thats a fifth of all our players). If we go by lynching instead of vigishooting we get more nights for role and alignment checks. So for fucks sake don´t shoot people who are unconfirmed. Also, please claim out killpower roles. We have 1 unconfirmed shooting, chances are that the unclaimed shot was done by scum. + Show Spoiler + Redff, last game I answered to every little question asked to me. It cluttered up the thread. Also, I don´t feel any pressure, so you are doing it wrong. If you want to know my every little thought, vote me and ask via pm. People will be annoyed if I write even more | ||
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Common sense, use some. You know, just like I know the guy who enable you to make a last will. He is called the notary and he can do so every night. I am sure he town and you still don´t fucking know who he is. Town wants to kill by lynching. I also want to know misinformation roles, like framers. Look, Sandroba was artist. It´s anti town. I want to know what I´m playing against. | ||
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Its not my problem you can´t process a 50% suspicion. I said Palmar voted conditionally when he was scum. I did not say every scum does. Also I pressuerd you, since you turned into a raving lunatic over it. I am sorry I borked you. If you really want the long answers vote me and I´m going to explain in detail. If you don´t care enough for that, shut up. Guess why no one else is with you on this crusade? | ||
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Bum even claimed to not be town. Wiggles has 1 shot left, so he is not as dangerous as bum to keep around. Also Bum claimed roleblock, Kurumi claimed roleblock too. Both say they are SK. Kurumi says he still could shoot. 1 of them is lying. Bum is Joker, so I would call it possible that he can people into Harvey "TwoFace" Dent and redirect killpower as his actual role ability. It actually fits together. This is a way better explanation why Sinani still lives then a roleblock on a SK blocking his alignment killpower: Bum redirected a kill on Sinani. Probably to someone random. He claims roleblock to explain why Sinani still lives. Kurumi is actually SK and a gamethrower. Wiggles has claimed with full role, confirmed by hero and has only 1 shot left. To think we have Bum under control is dumb. We have no role to control his night actions and a roleblock claim is a direct contradiction to his "fellow" SK. He is more likely to be the supposed scum Mastermind. ##vote Bumatlarge *cross finger that Sandwich came too late* | ||
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I cannot see proof of how the reveal of the possessed is impeccable. We know exactly what he can do. We DO NOT KNOW what the Joker can do. SK means he can kill by alignment. We don´t know what he can with role power. Just being Batmans enemy is not an awesome power. Batman was a goddamn superdoc. So guess how strong the power of the joker is? Being Vanilla SK doesn´t even compare the slightest. | ||
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Also, Nodes' Last Will was to lynch Bum. Why exactly lynch scum first and SK afterwards? It doesn´t matter to reduce scum before SK, since Scum kp is fixed at 1. Plus Bum has shown we do not have him under control. He actually has 2 evil powers, one of which we don´t even know. How can you not get rid of him ASAP? | ||
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Seriously, why does anyone believe a selfproclaimed SK? His own roleclaim states he is forced to do stuff, then forced to do more stuff, unable to fight back against Batman and he is night kill immune. I would even say this is worse then my own role. And trust me, its not fantastic. Mine is a standard role only twisted to be worse. This cannot possibly be actually his true role power. I will go to bed after saying this: We have 3 confirmed Anti town players: Bum, Kurumi and Mr.Wiggles. Bums role is probably predetermined like Batman. No one can confirm it. Kurumi has a not yet confirmed role. Mr Wiggles role was confirmed by Hiro Protagonist. Now, Serial Killers can kill and then still use their role powers. Wiggles can kill via role power. I am not saying Wiggles is innocent, I am saying Bum and Kurumi are about TWICE as dangerous as Wiggles. Think about it. The day goes on for about 44 more hours. | ||
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Now just one little thing I wan to add regarding kills and lynches. We have 3 bulletproof anti town people. Bum and Kurumi who claim to be SK and Wiggles, who was revealed as scum. Of the 3, only Kurumi can be killed normally in 1 night. He is SK, therefore he should be done with 2kp. I know a certain brofistdeathraydispenser who is not roleblockable and has 2 kp. So yeah, after 12 fistpounds Palmar should kill Kurumi. Wiggles and Bum are invulnerable at night. If I recall correctly, Bums role cannot be verified by someone in the game. There should also be reasonable doubt that Bum is in fact part of Scum. People here like to think both sides need experienced players for an even game. Now given a Joker and a Goddamn Batman, these people being Bloodcobbler and Bumatlarge, if they were town and scum, it would be pretty even., doesn´t it? Now if I could decide, I would say we lynch both Wiggles and Bum tonight. Yes, Wiggles can kill and had check that revealed him as scum. He needs to die. But Bum is Serial Killer, he even said so himself. If someone(I don´t remember who said it) interpreted the joker role right, he can shoot with his role power and with the fact he is serial killer. So he would have 2 kills per night. Now think about the possibilities what Bum could exactly be: 1) He says the truth and he is SK whos killpower is part of his role and has no alignment kp. 2) He lies and he is Scum with killpower in his role. 3) He lies and he is SK with a rolepower we do know nothing about. Think about these possibilities. Every single option is bad obviously, but the only reason to assume the least dangerous is true is to believe a confirmed anti town player. (If we have the maker of the joker role in the audience, please speak up.) I for myself do not believe one word Bum said so far. He is experienced, he knows we can´t force him to tell the truth. Also from what I heard, I fear Bum as Scum Mastermind far more than Wiggles as Scum Mastermind. | ||
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If I understood correctly, Kurumi´s alleged role tells him how many kp are possible. The who killed who could have done by anybody really. Varp was Palmar one and only target the entirety of day1, Node claimed, and Kuru claimed Sandro himself. What´s left has to be be the mafia hit. So no big revelation really. | ||
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The only reason really to claim SK is when you are scum. Somehow people think you are less dangerous when you are "just SK". So yes, you are confirmed as anti town. | ||
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The Scumteam kp is fixed on 1. I don´t know how often this was said and I cannot believe how some people are still not aware of this. In a 33 Player game with 1 scumteam kp you need a lot of opposition, simply because Scum can mostly kill via rolepowers(so any killpower people are more likely to be scum then others). But here is something new for you to think about:
Because of the last point I propose that every town player who made a role that can kill, frame or do evil shit(like a bus driver) should claim that he made such a role. Only that there is a role. Knowing role creators but not who they created the role for is harmless. For example, I have created an information role. With that alone you can´t do any shenanigans. (Ps: In my proposal I wouldn´t need to claim an info role, only killpower and other shenanigan roles. This is just an example) | ||
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On May 28 2011 04:49 deconduo wrote: There are: 12 - 20 Townies Remaining 4 - 8 Mafia Remaining 1 - 5 3rd Party Remaining | ||
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I think such an assumption is naive and to spread it is outright anti town. | ||
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Even though I´d like to use Sinani´s role power, I do doubt that it will work this night. People were supposed to do it last night, too. Do not tell exactly who you shoot, as I fear shenanigans. We should have at least 3 good targets, so pick at random among them or do they pro town thing and do not shoot at all. Scum has no bullets of its own, after all. Choose by yourself and do not tell anyone. | ||
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For one moment I thought you were in favor of shooting Sinani. You could use a bit more spacing between all those goddamn smilies. Would be nice to hear some more from Sinani though. It seems to me he is only stalling until BC comes back, which is really bad play. You should play the game too... | ||
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I somehow missed the moment when his behavior was deemed pro town... | ||
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Gmarshal did | ||
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Going out there shooting people with no evidence is definitely worse than holding back your shooting, Palmar. | ||
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On June 04 2011 06:44 Mataza wrote: I propose that every town player who made a role that can kill, frame or do evil shit(like a bus driver) should claim that he made such a role. Only that there is a role. Knowing role creators but not who they created the role for is harmless. For example, I have created an information role. With that alone you can´t do any shenanigans. (Ps: In my proposal I wouldn´t need to claim an info role, only killpower and other shenanigan roles. This is just an example) If somebody knows a reason why this plan is bad, please share it. Otherwise we know
Don´t say who you made the role for, or what exactly the role is. Only the bad parts of what it does. Can it kill, can it mess with nightactions, can it mess with information checks. | ||
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theres a role that deflects KP and we dont know who has it. | ||
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About Torte´s role: Can at least someone tell us how many people were roleblocked night 1? I assumed that this game is an easy cruise to the win for town just because of the limitedness of the kp. If half the town got roleblocked this assumption is useless. The result *could* be that this game may look more like a saloon gunfight then a game of mafia. Let´s hope we lose less people then yesterday at least. | ||
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Since Amber is *grrrrrr..* -ing at me, I must have write something wrong or scummy. I guess it´s about my position on Bum is similar to Wiggles position on Bum. If it´s that, I stand by that. Bum is experienced and it´s quite possible that he is indeed scum. I don´t know if Wiggles would bus part of his team, but I am ready to assume that. Nobody confirmed his role description yet. If you ask me Scumatlarge is Bum. If that position makes me scum in your eyes, so be it. | ||
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Also what difference is there really between lynching SK or Scum? To me, there is none, since we need to eviscerate both. What I fear is that Bum´s roleclaim is fake(since nobody confirmed creating his role) and that his actual role is much more powerful. And since we appear to not have aimable roleblock, I still fear what his role might do. The reason why Scum are supposed to be priority lynch candidates is because of collaboration. I don´t know about you, but I don´t think that collaboration with Mr.Wiggles gives you superpowers. Being the Nemesis of Batman however sounds likelier. | ||
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Varpulis issue: I´ve said this quite a few times already, but you don´t seem to be satisfied ever. I said Varpulis was erratic since before the game. This was an observation, no judgment. Also what you didn´t catch onto was that I called Cthsazsa suspect because of shortness of posts and said chaos13 looks legit. Then later on the list you quoted also, I say chaos13 is suspect and I don´t mention Cthaszsa. On May 31 2011 17:21 Mataza wrote: In another instance, I reread kitaman27, chaos13, meapak, varpulis and cthsazsa. Varpulis has been a bit erratic since before the game. cthsazsa has been extremely short in posting. Nothing much to work with, other than added unusefulness. chaos13 seems rather legit. Other than asking why Karshe paid attention to his list, talking about the only person on the list he knows, there has been nothing odd. On June 01 2011 08:17 Mataza wrote: Since its directed at me: 1) I wouldn´t shoot. If I was compulsive, I´d shoot cthsazsa. Few posts, even less content. 2) This is hard to say. Dropbear over Cobbler. 3) This is not a dating show 4) Right now, redff. Before that, Palmar. If I could include more(seem means plural) Varpulis, Chaos13 and Kitaman 27 too. You just picked something to make a case from it. If you call it a defense when I call someone erratic, then I defend redff hardcore all the time you ever . Palmar and conditional voting: I said that Palmar in one specific game was conditional voting and in this game too. Of course it is also considered a scumtell. It´s no 100% sure scumtell however, because how would you explain voteswitching then? Most people don´t say under what circumstances they switch vote. What I meant, when I said that: PTP Mafia On June 02 2011 05:47 Palmar wrote: And SNMM2Find me two votes on VisEyes and I'm coming right back. I just don't want sandroba or tack hanging, VisEyes and tnkted are good for me. On May 18 2011 02:23 Palmar wrote: (...) Actually, here's a promise for you, if everyone comes into the thread, contributes and makes good analysis of the situation, I will switch my vote to GiygaS and help you get him lynched. You actually made me go there find this rather small piece of evidence. In my case against you, I was baffled by the content of the list itself and the fact that Amber wasn´t there for about 12 hours or so to write anything. My assumption was that maybe your role stops the targeted person(Amber) to talk for the rest of the day. Also your defense to that accusation was that your memory of the last 3 hours is hazy. On June 01 2011 08:48 redFF wrote: I still think this is a ridiculous defense, but I accept it, because I think you are just that type of person. Also Amber came back.sigh..Do i really have to explain this to you. My memory is foggy and i really can't be bothered to convert korean times to eastern but ill try to explain. Last night I pm'd amber with a list of players and asked him to quote the list and wiggle his tail for town and grr for scum. He then quoted a post by gm about zodiac lists, bolded the zodiac list part and then bolded a bunch of player lists. I checked my pm's early this morning before I went out and saw what he did. I got home at like 4:30 today and went on irc, so i've been on irc for about 3 and a half hours...(its 8 now) I pm'd amber for confirmation that he wanted me to post his zodiac list and he wiggled his tail, so i did...Please stop lol. I already stated these reasons at least once, but you asked for the long version. Lynching Bum over Wiggles: As I´ve stated before I fear Bum. As you all should be aware but at least a couple or so aren´t: We know Jackshit about what roles are in the game. For all we know Sinani could in reality be an "NRA member" role. Fact however is, the creator of his role confirmed that his role is what he states. Read again and think about what that means. I´m not explaining everything in detail. Now, at the begin of day2 we knew that Kurumi and Bum claim SK, and that there is a check revealing Wiggles as scum in the daypost. I hope you don´t need quotes for these. Now we have 2 SK´s claiming to be roleblocked, and 1 SK says he could still shoot(Kurumi), the other claims he couldn´t(Bum). The fact is that these 2 SKs revealed themselves voluntarily. Why would you do that?
Then these people have claimed their roles too. Wiggles claimed Jules Winnfield and his claim was confirmed by, I think it was Hiro Protagonist. Kurumi´s and Bum´s roles weren´t confirmed however. Bum claimed out a role which included killpower and some sort of protection from bullets, about which he doesn´t know the details. Now putting all of this together in the right order we get this:
Now just looking at these few facts we can deduce that: Bum is either Scum or SK, Kurumi is SK who gave up the game and Wiggles is Scum unless a frickin catastrophe happened at night. Since we know Jackshit about the roles in this game(we don´t even know half the roles that are in game, maybe less than a quarter of all living roles, I am quite ready to believe that there is a chance for miracles to happen. Like 1 person roleblocking half the town. Now if you had to choose, would you choose to play against: Bumatlarge as Scum with a not confirmed role Mr.Wiggles with a confirmed role I chose Mr.Wiggles. To me, both are scum, but I know that Wiggles isn´t a mad hatter who kills half the town if he is shot at night. Bum on the other hand might as well have this as part of his role. Tidbits: Of the 4 candidates for day1 lynch, everyone was innocent. No one was actually scum. Of course Tnkted wasn´t checked yet, as he wasn´t visited night 1. So yeah, of all the people who were so obvious scum day1 the one guy I voted lives and is unconfirmed. Clearly, I should have voted someone else. The claim plan was based around the fact that the role creator could claim what he created. That doesn´t tell anyone who has which role. I also added "The less specific such a claim, the better" but this of course wasn´t scummy, so you just didn´t mention it. Because I didn´t want to write half a book, I said you should PM me all this stuff. Don´t you think this is cluttering up the thread? tl;dr Go back and read. Short version was my last 50 or so posts. | ||
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Let´s say we have a town with 26 people in it, A through Z. Everyone of these people made a role for another one, all unlike. However as the game is mafia, there are about 4 or 5 categories of possible mechanics: Heal, Check, Kill, Frame and Manipulation. Now according to my plan people who made a role with Killing, Frame or Manipulation part claim that they gave someone else such a role. A, H, L, N, D and O made a role with a killing part. D, E, I, J, N, S, G, O and P made a role with a Frame part. K, W, Q and C made a role with a Manipulation part. Now tell me: Who has which kind of role? (Hint: You have no way of finding out since you don´t know who created a role for who) | ||
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Obviously he assumed my plan was that everyone claims his own role. After explaining it with difficult words once or twice already, I was just dumbing it down into a model. I just said I would draw it as a figure of speech. In german "drawing something for someone" means that the person you talk with is either unable or unwilling to understand what you say. In short I was saying he is either ignorant or dumb. Pictures outside of the picture thread are afaik forbidden in TL. Didn´t know that it was different in TL Mafia. | ||
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It was quite explicit that all PMs should have gone to BB and Decon. | ||
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Unfair. I want to live and stuff. | ||
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 Can´t help it though  Time to make my time count  | ||
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 Townplay consists of lynching people, not shooting semirandomly at night.  After Kurumi and Bum are taken care of, I´ve got a new proposal for you, though. >  Kill everyone who has killing power.  | ||
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Right now I assume that all the people having killpower are either outright Scum or very good at killing Townies.   If we go on without criticiszing the people with guns,  we will definitely lose this.  All good behavior aside, those  morons killed half the town already.If they are not morons, then they do it on purpose, and are therefore  scum. | ||
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Reasons. | ||
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He is a known killpower role and uses flimsy reasoning to kill someone he ever accused before. I´ve got enough of this random shooting.  Whoever shoots someone on gut feeling should be shot by someone else. Before people started shooting, we were winning :thumbs Now after all the shooting, we are losing  Anyone who thinks killpower roles are going to save us this game are stupid If you really must shoot, try shooting the people who claim to be invulnerable like Tnkted or Bum.  If they die, they lied. If they don´t die, they are telling the truth. It´s win - win  Do you really want to keep all this killpower around? We went from 33 people down to 25 in one night.  I will die halfway into this day so we are at 20 people left. And we have exactly 1 hit yet, Wiggles. 1 Hit in 13 dead people is awful. It´s beyond awful And that even though we know 2 other targets that are guaranteed to not be green: Kurumi and Bum Do you really want to not tell if you made a killpower role? The next one lying dead might be *you*.  | ||
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If I knew other people with killroles that aren´t confirmed anti town already, I would call them scum too.  My gripe is that these people that are bad are actually doing a great deal of losing for us. | ||
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Palmar bussed his only remaining teammate in SNMM2 without any provocation. I wouldn´t say it´s beyond him to sell out his team | ||
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And theres still 4 pages to read till I´m up to date First of all, Palmar lied and probably now tries to trick us into giving him kp powers again. Second redff is most probably townie according to my read, but being innocent doesn´t make him right.  My read the last 2 day tells me he has no clue about what´s going on in this game.  Coming back soon, when I caught up with the thread. | ||
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On June 06 2011 10:51 Palmar wrote: I don't know. Killing someone that has a 1/1 record of killing mafia/town just seems a bit unwise to me. If I shoot more townies, by all means, lynch me. This is a crap argument. We have probably around 8 or so killpower floating around this game, maybe more, maybe less. Imagine 8 guys with guns were going around at night with that attitude. This is happening right now and Town dies because of it. Yes, you got the lucky shot and won the molekilling lottery, but that´s nothing more than that, dumb luck. Redff, I know you are trying hard. You didn´t react to my explanation yet which you so much requested. If that didn´t convince you, how about my flip in abvout 12 hours? I´m gonna reveal while I´m still alive: I am the Stalker. I can go to a player's house during the night and watch who visits them. I can see what is done to them, but not who did it. I am basically the same thing chaos13 was, only that I can only see actions and not people. I don´t get how other people think their roles are crap when I´m the guy who can confirm that the person dropping dead in the nightbreak was indeed killed. Even worse, I watched tankted night 1. Nobody did investigate him. I watched Bum night 2. Nobody even attempted to kill him. Out of these little facts I can deduce the following: We probably don´t have a straightup alignment checker or those guys are idiots. And secondly, we probably don´t have a townsided kp or those who are townsided are idiots. I hoped that Bum would have a mafia doc on him to pretend he was unkillable. Also guess why claiming who you made what role for was forbidden day1? Probably because if you do it right it would lead to town victory. That´s my guess.  I we get a list of who TdL blocked night 1, we get basically a list of possible killpower. We need to put a stop to semi random shooting. We should be playing "Mafia", what we are playing is "Morons with Guns" | ||
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, Jackal and Bum  It´s the awesome mass smilie role Though we don´t have it as bad as Amber. Amber is practically unable to communicate at all. | ||
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This is right and that makes me very suspicious of you.  | ||
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Awesome  | ||
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And I checked, Kitaman was indeed supposed to be part of this. And even if thats adds up, I have no intent of telling you how you can shut down the circle permanently.  | ||
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If I died in the middle of the day, it would confirm that everything I did so far was in good will. It would have meant a new spark to discussion 24 hours before lynch, while I actually can do almost everything I was going to do in 24 hours anyway. | ||
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:7 | ||
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 I don´t care if you have to kill 3 innocent virgins to activate that role, just do it plz. I volunteer if you need sacrifices for that  Just to math a bit, we only need 1-2 KP to off Kurumi again. He redirected so he is automatically hit by GMarshal, so we only need to break his bulletproof. I´m not sure if GMarshals kp counts towards that as it is bound by his role so use 2 just for good measure. | ||
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Now that TdLs role was brought up again, a thought crossed my mind: He has a posting restriction and as of yet has done nothing useful with his posts. Even after he was told he can post at night limitless. However, the way the role was created by Meapak it actually reveals quite a bit of information on death. It confirms "a bunch" of Town and 3rd party players, if he flips scum. And if he flips green, it draws questions about the people who didn´t claim to be roleblocked(if there are any). I don´t know exactly how much information we get, so this is a gamble. Keep in mind that he only blocks town players if he is scum and both kinds scum and town if he is town. Actually, I would demand him to post his role description in full. If he can´t make heads nor tails of his role, maybe we can. | ||
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On June 07 2011 03:30 GMarshal wrote: Oh, please do point out why in the nine hells of bator a SK would ever claim, I'm eager to hear your reasoning. Why don´t we ask Kurumi, since he did. | ||
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So far sounds fine.  Did Bum claim roleblock again? Depending on the number of roleblocked people we have more kp to worry about. Also Karshe is the only unclaimed killpower on there. Would you be so nice and explain why, Karshe? | ||
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On June 06 2011 07:35 Kenpachi wrote: yea i said enough. bye guys. hopefully, a replacement is available for me | ||
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Mafias hit was maybe rescued. Or maybe Mafia used their teamkp on someone who is bulletproof. And if said bulletproof person is 3rd party they wouldn´t claim. Especially if they already have claimed their actual role. Also there is the chance someone got hit and doesn´t claim because he isn´t aware that he should. I would still like to hear from Karshe, do you really have KP? We can´t let KP run around freely. | ||
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On June 07 2011 06:43 Karshe wrote: Actually, I'll be more specific about my role since I feel like the mafia have higher priority targets tonight. I do have KP and I am the reason that Mataza has a bomb strapped to him. I am able to plant a bomb at night and they take 48 hours (after the next lynch) to detonate. I don't feel at risk claiming since there are others who have stronger KP than I do. On Night 1 I attemped to plant a bomb on Varpulis, but when I arrived he was already dead (per our host) and I got my bomb refunded back to me. I don't know if this counts as "visiting" him, but I asked Dec if I lost my bomb and he said no, I kept it since my target had already been killed. I started with 2 bombs and only have 1 left now (after Mataza). "Why Mataza?" I felt like Bum is an easy lynch, and I felt confident that Torte is scum and will be dying soon. I wanted to target another person I felt to be scum. I chose someone's role who is still alive and hasn't claimed yet. Been waiting for them to claim to see if they're truthful. You could have fucking asked, Some roles are much more powerful for town if not claimed, like bulletproofs. Now if you are the bomb guy, then Kenpachidain can´t be the bombguy. Also your call on Varpulis is bad for the same reason Palmars was bad. Varp didn´t know he was the mole, so he couldn´t slip really. :7 | ||
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On June 07 2011 07:28 redFF wrote: Stefftastiq is disclosing things to town and helped confirm that WIggles shot Deskcaress. I think he is town. I am not sure a bus driving would be revealed to him. The way I see it, he gets only the results of what happened in the end. Also | ||
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My opinion. This is a possibility and I have no reason other than my paranoia to think Steffs powers reveal actions but not all deflections that lead to the final result | ||
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I can´t think of someone important who is left. You could shoot between Kurumi and and TdL however. Problem is, we need 2 KP to off Kurumi or a roleblock +1 kp.(since GM is forced to try to kill him again and again until Kurumi gets roleblocked) If only anyone could explain how TdLs roleblock works so we know if Kurumi gets blocked or not, like maybe TdL himself.[/sarcasm] Just kill Torte. | ||
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Kenpachi gave no reason whatsoever. Always remember, just because you are innocent doesn´t mean you are right.  | ||
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Also nice Tnkted, you have shown that you haven´t exactly read the thread  Hope your replacement has more spare time than you, busy buddy. | ||
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Amber Widely regarded as town, but I don´t see why. He tried hard to convey meaning day1, but it doesn´t make him town. What would you do when you are a scumdog? Right, you would try hard to appear cute&protown and bark at people that have been acting scummy. I didn´t notice much effort from night 1 onward. redff I have just checked another game of him, to look if he is always like this. Surprisingly he is always on edge in this game, he practically exploded after receiving my vote day1 and it took him 2 days to come up with one accusation post towards me that didn´t consist of "You´re scum. Look here he tells us he won´t vote so easily. You´re scum. He voted me for reasons that weren´t really viable. You´re scum" (I checked Mafia XXXVIII, in which he was much more calm and collected.) I believe I let him off the hook too easily. Hiro Protagonist He went missing for the weekend and announced to participate again. That has yet to happen. DropBear Gave huge townie vibes after posting 3 or 4 analysises day1. His other analysises weren´t as good, telling us Bum is lying to us, Kurumi is lying to us and that chaos13 is town(another big post Palmar seems to not have noticed) Has dropped off in activity since. Also kills visitors at night, kinda surprising he was never targeted by mafia till now. Replaced or soon to be replaced: Weren´t as active and become very hard to read because of replacing. Tnkted Doesn´t even read the thread.... His role makes him immune to lynches, but no one was going to lynch him anyway. Kenpachidain Minimal participation. I just checked, Kurumi just assumed he strapped a bomb to me, without any reason. Killpower club: These guys have the killpower. We must keep tabs on what they´re doing or they might waste it on gut feeling... Palmar Yeah. He lied, then he lied and now he lies again. He lied in a pro town way first and then in an anti town way. If you don´t keep tabs on him, he will go out there and shoot someone. Karshe Claims being the bomb strapper. Claims to have tried to kill Varpulis night 1(we have no way of knowing) and now kills me. Unless I suddenly flip mole, this guy needs guidance to use his kp, too. GMarshal Can kill members of his circle. He has been quite dodgy as a player. Right now, his killpower is bound on killing Kurumi again and again until Kurumi stops or is forced to stop. If he is ever free to decide again, everyone in his PM circle should claim for their own safety, as he can only kill those. Right now he has Jackal, Bum and Kurumi as of my knowledge in his circle. Kurumi This guy has to die soon. He actively derails the thread since day1. Also selfconfirmed SK, doesn´t get much worse. | ||
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:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7  | ||
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Do you swear Ambers role cannot be used for evil? For all you know, Amber could be an Assassin too Also I´m jealous you live 24 hours longer than me. | ||
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Palmar made a claim that guarantees him to die tonight. Only the mafia would save him now, so he wastes a lynch for town. Come one, think. | ||
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On June 07 2011 20:37 Palmar wrote: Mataza, it can be used for evil. But it's more powerful for the town. I think it's best if it's kept secret. If you want to be outed and confirmed Amber, just wiggle your tail at my post. Also, you should probably give me 4 fistpounds at least, that way both the assassins have to stack on me to get me killed. Feel free to troll them and give me more, basically leaving them neutered and their numbers still count amongst town. NO :plzdie | ||
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I know, a daring assumption but let´s pretend it was a possibility. If there are assassins in this game, they will kill him. They don´t need their kp for anything else. If he for some reason survives, we lynch him. There shouldn´t be much of a difference between lynching Bum and lynching Palmar. We cannot control either. And they have both KillPower. The difference is, that Palmar is very likely to die at night, while Bum is not. Bum is at least bulletproof and we have no killpower confirmed as town to stack up on him. At this point, the "Palmar problem" will most likely solve itself., while the "Bum problem" won´t. Sorry Bum, but you are simply not town. | ||
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uh:In hindsight I am grateful to live the whole day instead of the half. Also | ||
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Is there any way to know if Amber is using his superdog abilities for the good of town? | ||
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Who goes down first is up to preference and maybe the fact you want to use a lynch on someone who has a 90% chance to die to Assassins tonight. Wasting a lynch is quite anti town, since it delays the lynch of real scum. While we´re at it, did Kurumi claim which role he made? I have made a little flow chart with 2 longer chains of roleclaiming already. Stefftastiq(Medium) -> Mataza(Stalker) -> Meapak_Ziphh(Notary) -> Torte de lini(Roleblockstuff) Jackal(Smilie Mason) -> Tnkted(Unlynchable) -> Palmar(Brofistdeathray Dispenser) -> Amber(Dog) Hiro(????) -> Wiggles(Black Motherfucker) Node(Indie rockstar) -> ???(Kp role, more than 1 kill) BC(Batman) <-> Bum(Joker) If I forgot something, feel free to correct this. Node maybe created for Karshe, but we can´t be sure about that. After this game is over I would love to see a bit disclosure on the creation chain from decon. However, everyone who didn´t say who he made a role for must either be sure that his role is very pro town or is part of the scum team waiting to mess with us in some way. | ||
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I was somehow in the mind of having died in both mafia games. So first things first Karshe bombs Palmar tonight. If P really is assassin, you will get it back because he is dead at daybreak. Barundar, if you keep your vote on someone you don´t want to lynch, we have to assume you gain Role powers by voting. Very suspicious. Don´t forget he did this after tonight. About Sinani If I remember correctly, his role was confirmed night1. Don´t remember who exactly. I will reread in a short bit. Also lol GMarshal^^ "The mysterious cult leader killed someone." Very secretive if everyone knows who you are^^ lmao The thing with bussing is, it only works if people don´t want to kill you anyway. Who THE HELL "knows" that Bum has no kp anymore? It´s an assumption at best. Remember that no one ever can confirm his role? Also who THE HELL believes Kurumi when he says "I shot Kita becaaaaause.......I was angry, ya" We are missing the scumteam kp from last night. Mysteriously the whole scumteam was roleblocked or someone was saved with neither the savior nor the saved claiming. How about the SK with only 2 shots didn´t shoot a second time? I bet my money on Kurumi lying. Also thanks for the advise to bomb mr bulletproof, way to waste our towns resources. How gullible do you think is this town? To me, the course of action is clear. 1. Bum gets lynched 2. Palmar gets an explosive necklace 3. I die 4. Nobody listens to Kurumis "advice" Also I find this fricking hilarious+ Show Spoiler + On June 08 2011 01:48 Palmar wrote: Do it yourself. Killing me today is stupid. Are you guys honestly suggesting the mafia plan looked something like this? -> Step 1: Bus the mole, get town cred LIKE A BOSS -> Step 2: Help lynch Wiggles, knowing bum is in trouble LIKE A BOSS -> Step 3: Kill a cop, claim the kill, and lose every fucking gram of town cred we have LIKE A BOSS -> Step 4: Claim assassin, bus Bum anyway, cause that's how I roll. LIKE A BOSS -> Step 5: Get killed LIKE A BOSS 4 mafia down, go us! This is not what will happen if I flip. All you will end up with is a wasted lynch, and Bumatlarge still alive. Also no bad feelings for the bomb, Karshe. I would probably shoot myself, if I was someone else. | ||
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So you completely discarded the possibilty that Bum might be 3rd party, but use him as 3rd party together with Kurumi to rule out assassins to be in the game? 1 SK, 3 Assassins. If you don´t discard this possibility, you just said: "We know this one guy who probably has kp and is bulletproof and then this other guy who has kp for sure. Lets lynch the guy without bulletproof, then use 1 kp on the bulletproof guy and curse in the morning when he didn´t die." :7 | ||
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Everyday we get more confirmed anti town players and none of them die at night. | ||
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On June 08 2011 02:53 Eternalmisfit wrote: Mataza is also likely scum based on his D3 behavior. When the bomb was set to explode at 24 hr mark, he was hardcore attacking Palmar and trying to bus him. Just after the deadline was changed, his posting changed a lot and also he made a post he was regretting his actions he did assuming a 24 hr bomb. Again, no one noticed since no one gives a damn apart from deciding who to shoot on next day. He and hiro were the only ones who defended Mr. Wiggles as well. I am giving 70-30 odds of him flipping scum. Actually pretty fine post, but you´re maybe making it too easy. I dropped my hard course against Palmar because he confirmed himself as anti town. Now we have again 3 anti town players:
We need to kill all of those 3. There is no use digging in a open door, so I don´t see any reason to still focus my play only around Palmar. Palmar actually is the first anti town player in the game which we can actually kill at night. You know, so our KP doesn´t go towards innocent townies like the other nights. Also Kurumi claimed that his role reveals *possible* kp for the night he uses it. Not all available kp for the entire game. Also Kurumi could simply lie since he is anti town. Failmath right there. If Varpulis created Bums role, there is no way to confirm it ever. On another issue, in the back of my mind I have the nagging feeling that TdL´s blocking ability holds back an entire shitstorm of nasty role powers. Then again, when you finally find out how his role works you can backtrack who has been blocked to deduce where the nastyness coems from. (Meapak said he can confirm that GMarshal must´ve been blocked, so it is triggered by something visible, like voting behavior) Also | ||
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If your claim was honest, you can bind 1 killpower in an endless cycle of delaying. Other than that, you´re an SK, which means 2 KP and you drop dead. In short, 3KP to kill Kurumi for good. GM is already bound to him, so 2 to finish the job. | ||
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You scored my only scumread, so to speak you made the highscore. | ||
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Actually your claim could have had a purpose 1. Claim "wtf is this shit, its useless", so people think you are just dense 2. get town cred by repeatingly playing dense, 3. Use your PM ability to get roleclaim from chaos13 4. "I have info, but I can´t say where I got it from" [green[No shit sherlock, you can PM people, you told us[/green] 5. Your contact drops dead, luckily Palmar claimed it. 6. PM Rean, get roleclaim from him Now if Rean drops dead soon, I think I can make out a pattern. But who do you bus then? -> Doesn´t matter, the lynching queue is 3 days long. Aside from that, you have been extra unhelpful this game. If I had the time left, I would consider going back to find all the times you derailed the thread. Alas, my minutes are numbered :7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7:7 | ||
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I dropped that attitude, since we have to kill them all anyway. If people actually want to lynch Palmar first and try to hit Bum at night, in hope he does die from 1 kp, that´s ok. | ||
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Performance anxiety probably. My role felt useless. Then I didn´t want to out anything. It´s probably the fear of dying that makes me a decent player^^ | ||
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Aside from voicing my opinions and who I read as scum, I also hope I can cover every question about me that´s going to come up after my death. I was the Stalker I see what is done to my target, but not who did it. I chose Tnkted night1, the declared cop check. No one visited him. -> We probably don´t have any alignment checkers, or he/she/they for some reason didn´t check him I chose Bumatlarge for night 2. No one visited him. -> We have either no townsided kp, or they are stupid. Your call. What I you should do :Murder the hell out of these guys in any order you wish: Bum Palmar Kurumi This list must get a lot shorter. If you get 2 suspects tomorrow, we are already booked out for 4 days. What I think would be helpful: Who you should consider to murder or lynch(high suspicion): redff TdL Pandain Tnkted(Murder only, lynch immune) Who you should sternly look at too(lower suspicion): Amber GMarshal Sinani Hiro Karshe Barundar Really not much to say about these guys. Redff has reacted horribly to my FoS day1. His best line was "My memory is foggy" concerning events that were 3 hours in ago at that time. Look if he actively tries to derail or if he is just that chaotic. If Rean drops dead tonight we have a pattern. Tnkted has been not helpful so far. His role granted him immunity to lynches and he kinda lurked about the whole time. If he is scum, we need to preserve kp or off him before that. Unlynchable scum is hard to get rid off. Kenpachi has flown under the radar much. Pandain improves activity but does only spam dog emotes and pictures so far. He has apparently a reputation for never claiming his actual role, so I would categorize him as troll. If you can´t work with him, remove him from the equation. TdL is a lynching mass roleblocker. Meapak should be ashamed of making a restriction of 7 posts in a game with 48h days. His roleflip and alignment flip will give you information. If he´s red, all blocked people are probably not scum. It´s dangerous though, as he could be the one stopping the madness at night by blocking the killpowers. Hiro has been not very active for the last day or so. He just so flies under the radar. Sinani does so too. Amber is trying hard again, but what better explanation for not analysing people is there than not being able to talk. GMarshal is, well, suspicious to me. Not much to say really. Also I don´t have the time to look now. He also has killpower, so look out for that. Karshe is mostly here for his Killpower. He claimed it and he is the reason I die in a few minutes. Would have preferred he bombed Bum or Kurumi. Needs guidance for his KP Consider not using it, as town wants to do most of its justice by lynches. You can see where random killing leads. Barundar has been quite suspicious in my eyes at least. Not very active in the beginning and now he is also more certain that TdL is scum than of Bum or Palmar. I suspect his role to be the reason behind the vote, either that he gains something by voting, or that he wants to finally use his rolepower after TdL blocked him 2 nights straight. I apologize for playing pretty crappy the other days. I have no valuable info to give you with my role. | ||
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What I think you should do Also I forgot these :7 :7:7 | ||
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Stefftastiq(Medium) -> Mataza(Stalker) -> Meapak_Ziphh(Notary) -> Torte de lini(Roleblockstuff) Jackal(Smilie Mason) -> Tnkted(Unlynchable) -> Palmar(Brofistdeathray Dispenser) -> Amber(Dog) Hiro(????) -> Wiggles(Black Motherfucker) Node(Indie rockstar) -> ???(Kp role, more than 1 kill) probably: Karshe(Bombstrapper) Redff(interrogator) -> Varpulis(police chief) Em(???) -> BC(Batman) Varp(Pickup) (->) Bum(Joker) GMarshal(Cult leader) Kurumi(Trap mage) Mig(???) -> Sinani(Sacrificial priest) Dropbear(visitorkiller) I forgot again what role Kurumi made, so it can´t be important. | ||
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He is on my "consider murder on these gus" list though. It´s a gamble, since his role blocks a lot of people passively. The first night after he is dead, you get to see the first time how many kills are actually possible in this game. | ||
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This guy needs pressure to be any good for town. | ||
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Why am I still alive dammit fly:  >  r  ;\):7  ;\[ thumbs:           Also if a person on scumteam picked for varpulis, redff picked his role. And if Bum is the one guy who can kill more than several people per night with a 1shot ability, like decon hinted, it´s not my fault | ||
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If Redff is scum and Palmar is scum, it makes sense that Palmar killed Varp n1 and Chaos13 n2. That´s about the only connection. Might as well be coincidence. Redff is as scummy as you can get without claiming 3rd party. :D That´s it I flip | ||
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You simply ignore it again? | ||
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I am thankful Bum didn´t get lynched, right? I wish I was not town this game, tough audience. | ||
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Attack Item Pokémon Run | ||
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On June 10 2011 20:08 Cthsazsa wrote: We're so stupid for not lynching bum first. :D I agree | ||
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I was scared by my first game with a lot of players(hard to keep track on all of them), so I didn´t really do much until I got a bomb planted on my sorry ass. I´m kinda happy I got suspicions on Barundar and GM in one of my last posts, so I was going the right direction at least. I also had Dropbear at one point, but it doesn´t count since I left him out of my last FoS post. Also I´d like to claim to being the first guy on to Bums BS. I voted him over Wiggles Day 2 even though Wiggles was also scum. Bum definitely had the more terrifying kp role with his multikill gasbomb. Also for the celebration of this awful game I made a chart how to play a vig in a game with mutiple vigs: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dtq68.jpg) I still feel the haphardly shooting of town aligned people almost handed scum the win. Jackal didn´t even shoot at all in the game. How many kills did Kurumi send in? I thought SKs had only 2 kills yet he somehow shot a third time? | ||
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Town got lucky with Bum and Wiggles and then proceeded to have listchecks. I feel really bad because I was essentially useless while I tried to get any information out of my role. Also did Pandain and Tnkted withdraw from the game because I was trying to pressure them? It kind of took the wind out of my sails. | ||
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Just saying because town could have lost even more people per night. I was going wtf at 2 scum kills in ~12 dead people. And it could have been even worse. My opinion is, had townplayers not shot, it would have been such an easy cruise to townvictory. I find it irritating that the only people agreeing with me there are scum in quicktopic... | ||
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It´s next to impossible to balance the game without considering the roles. Either adjust the setup based again after the roles were all sent in or switch roles around as needed. Latter would mean you can´t tell people who they pick for. For the former, I suggest adding more 3rd party if the balance seems off. I was baffled when I found out there were only 2 SKs. In my opinion, either scum would have needed to be nearly all killing roles or 4+ third party, 3 assassin, 1-2 sk. Had pro town players not shot like mad all game long, this would have been way onesided. Let´s say 24 town vs 8 scum. It would take 8 nights without saves and 8 mislynches for scum to win. On the counterside it could have been all over night 2 had all the townside kp luckily hit. When scum have to rely on town to selfdestruct with all their combined firepower, I wouldn´t call that balance. Nothing personal decon. The game was still fun | ||
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It´s an itemized form of Palmars role/performance in this very game as it would be implemented by an inventor type role. + Show Spoiler + P.a.l. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BS5hk.jpg) .a.r., the PortAbLe Brofist-deathrAy dispenseR To charge up, place fist on the "m" of P.a.l. .a.r.(It´s actually a fist, so placing the fist there will count as a fistpound, giving the P.a.l.m.a.r. energy.) To charge it up, simply write "##Fistpound: P.a.l.m.a.r." in the thread. Giving it 2 fistpounds will enable it to kill a mole at night. Giving it 4 fistpounds will enable it to kill a detective type role at night. Giving it 6 fistpounds will protect the wearer from 1 kp the following night. Giving it 8 fistpounds will enable it to kill any townaligned player at night. Giving it 10 fistpounds will enable it to kill a player of your choice at night. In any case the P.a.l.m.a.r. has to be aimed manually. If you chose an illegal target it will simply not kill it. For best results aim at confirmed detectives. If I would have to decide, this should be a standard item in any item subgame, hell, even in games without there should be someone carrying this item. I will forever remember this game, because it was awesome AND funny. People actually went into the logic that someone would shoot the mole to gain towncred only to lose this towncred by claiming to shoot a cop. I also remember vividly the facepalm Lynchpost that followed. | ||
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