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Barundar
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On December 29 2010 04:23 Ace wrote: ooohhh boy. This game would be very difficult for new players. I sincerely urge you to not only read the games linked in the OP but other games as well. | ||
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Regarding the setup: We know there is 6 mafia total, including mules. If we assume there is at least 1 mule, and probably 2, this leaves a mafia team consisting of 4 to 5 members. This put certain limits to the options for mafia with regards to strategy. One possible mafia strategy is to pick an abundance of killing roles and carpet bomb the town in the hope of finishing the game fast, before detectives can get checks in and town can get reads on people. I don’t think mafia will choose this road, they only have 4-5 members, they don’t know the identity of mules, the plan is highly volatile because of medic saves + veterans, and lack of godfather/framer leaves them vulnerable. On the other hand, 1 KP is very little in a 25 player game. With this many detective roles, they can’t afford a long drawn out game. It’s in my opinion safe to assume that mafia will aim for at least 1 extra KP role a la CPR doc. Hence it might be worth it to deny them the strongest KP roles, but there is absolutely no reason to assign every KP role. There is quite frankly stronger mafia alternatives. Lastly I’d like to point to the fact that in every PYP so far the traitor has been picked by a townie. It’s safe to assume someone will be a jackass in this game as well. So we are really looking at a 7 person mafia team. Regarding number picking, clashes was a great way to divide people in to groups in PYP3. While the randomness usually guarantee mafia a top spot, since they can blanket pick a range of numbers without clashing with each others, it also split the players into small groups with 1 mafia in each nicely (no one picks 4, everyone picks 7, true story). @radfield I will follow a plan assigning thief + the very most powerful mafia roles to the top spots, but in PYP3 there was a strong resistance towards following any sort of plan. I disagree with some of your picks on the lynch list, which I think can be fairly ok for a townie, but that is specifics. I’ll hopefully be able to give better feedback once I’ve thought some more of it. | ||
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Barundar
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Barundar - The mafia know who the mole(s) are. The moles don't know they're moles or who the mafia are until day 3. I see, cheers for pointing it out. I think my point still stands, moles + traitor is still some mafia that won't initially aim for mafia power roles, limiting mafia's options. Assuming 4 mafia, I guess my mafia "dream team" would be caller gf + CPR doc + either incogs kingmaker/politician combo or inventor/thief. Blocking just a few of these would be beneficial for town in my opinion. On May 15 2011 01:06 tnkted wrote: I hadn't realized this, but bums right. I should put "Bum ≠ Barundar" in my sig  | ||
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I'm in the line of fire again... god dammit. | ||
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1. Flamewheel 2. Scamp [7][11] 3. Caller [10][4] 4. Barundar [13][1] 5. Radfield 6. GMarshal [17][2] 7. Deconduo 8. Foolishness [1][x] 9. bumatlarge [1][18] 10. Kavdragon [2][1] 11. Chaoser [2][2] 12. Fishball [5][3] 13. KillerSOS [5][11] 14. Eiii [6][7] 15. Infinitestory [6][10] 16. Dreamflower [4][1] 17. Mr.Wiggles [4][x] 18. Original Name[4][6] 19. tnkted [4][12] 20. Chezinu 21. Ace [9][11] 22. Kurumi [9][x] 23. Incognito[9][x] 24. Node [9][1] 25. kitaman27 [9][1] | ||
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Why do you suggest that after roles has been picked? I'm against any plan that aim's to control town roles instead of mafia roles. | ||
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On May 15 2011 18:14 chaoser wrote: Roles haven't been picked yet? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176529¤tpage=84#1665 night Pick order is solved. You should have brought new role pick propositions up before hand, because now there is an inherent risk of any proposition to be mafia influenced. | ||
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My girlfriend came up with that, I have no imagination  | ||
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@Incognito votes, I don't see what he is doing as more than putting pressure on people, which is just one way to gather information. I would like some more reasons for voting Kurumi though, as Kurumi got himself mislynched day 1, when put under pressure in the current standard game. On the other hand he writes in a way so I can only make sense of half of it. @GM I can't talk for others, but I noticed that you suggested a plan that involves #6 to pick thief, but when you end up #6 yourself, and people assign you thief, you respond with: My mayor issue with this "select roles for spots" deal now is the fact that the draft order is already out, meaning that the mafia is free to propose whatever they wish, and land whatever juicy roles they want. I find it curious that when your own proposition corresponds to the one you get offered, you shoot it down as mafia influenced. @OriginalName I can't help but notice you stay silent through the first 48 hours when we discuss plans, but when the planning phase is over, you go out and question if the planning is worth it in your first substantial post. And in the same post you manage to call control plans both pro town and anti town. | ||
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Now I have no idea if copy cat went to mafia this time, but it certainly did last time I played. For the same reason I would be against lynching Scamp. He is number 2 pick, he is bound to have a sick role. If we give that role to the copy cat, we just end up with a sick role in an unknown position. I agree scamp is suspicious, but we will have to deal with him another day. Third, it helps us absolutely nothing to have ~10 suspects day 1. We won't get any information from being spread out like this, list checkers won't have anything to work with, and no one feels pressured. Not to mention with a multitude of targets, scum is going to pick who is going to get lynched, simple as. We don't need new suspects with every post, sorry to use you as an example GM, but you post you will have a look at KillerSOS, and 10 minutes later you have a finished analysis dubbing him scum. Next on your list is Dreamflower. Do you expect to nail the whole freaking team half a day into day 1? Have a look at the voting thread. So far we have: + Show Spoiler [current votes] + Incognito: 3 Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness deconduo: 3 kitaman27, Node, Eiii chaoser: 2 bumatlarge, incognito cheznu: 1 Fishball GMarshal: 1 chaoser Fishball: 1 kurumi KillerSoS: 1 GMarshal Mr.Wiggles: 1 Kavdragon scamp: 1 deconduo 9 targets in total. 6 people with 1 vote. Now I'm sure all of you have an excellent reason for why exactly your target is scum, but it clearly isn't convincing to the rest of us. So will you please consider joining one of the other targets? I don't want to limit discussion, and if you find someone obvious scum by all means go for it, but the way this is heading we won't get much useful information going into day 2. The three leading targets is incognito, deconduo and chaoser. Of the three I'm the least inclined to vote for deconduo for the reasons stated above. Chaoser has been dropping a bunch of one liners despite claiming to be busy. Yet the votes on incognito are the most convincing, I doubt both Ace and Foolishness would be mafia for balance purposes. I'd like to hear a better reasoning for incognitos votes than "I brought up the vote rigger combo idea, hence I must be town". Lastly I could be convinced to a policy lynch on cheznu. Whatever role he have, I'm sure it would disappoint the Copy Cat. | ||
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You know if town sits and throws around random votes, mafia is going to do it as well, right? FoS: Caller | ||
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Caller throws a FoS, but makes a vote. I throw a FoS, because he tries to introduce yet another target, bringing us to 10 in total, way more than we need. | ||
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Incognito you post that we have a lot of information now, and that we should read over the thread tomorrow. What about we read over the thread now, and actually decide on the targets that has something on them? I don't see the point of just being content with the current situation, that really only favors scum. | ||
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He doesn't say anything of value This annoy me bum, no need to downplay my points. If you disagree fine, but then disagree with what I'm saying, don't try to belittle me. | ||
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My argument against lynching Scamp is also based on the risk of the copy cat. People say there is no copy cat because scum has better options, but there has been a scum copy cat in the other PYP's, so I think it's a valid concern. For that reason I consider it risky to lynching in to the top, it can in my opinion wait until tomorrow. But I am obviously biased here, so feel free to have another opinion. I'm fine with you pressuring people that are not participating Kurumi, in fact I consider it pretty pro town by you. But I encourage you to change your vote to a vote that matters for the lynch, in case your pressure doesn't convince the town, and pick it up again afterwards. The problem as I see it is that at the moment the votes are everywhere, effectively negating any pressure on any of the targets. | ||
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4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. I'm probably going to vote incognito, Ace makes the most sense to me. Got an hour before bed to see if anything changes. | ||
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I have problems explaining his actual scum hunting so far. Loads of finger pointing and weak reasons for votes. For an example his vote on chaoser: Bumatlarge is also on the right track. Chaoser is a good vote too. Actually, wait, a better vote than Kurumi. I'll put Chaoser as 85% mafia. ##Vote Chaoser Why does he think chaoser is 85 % mafia? Thats very high degree of certainty day 1. Since then he doesn't mention chaoser or try to convince others of his guilt. Same with Kurumi and GMarshal: + Show Spoiler + On May 16 2011 14:20 Incognito wrote: Flamewheel please nuke GMarshal. Thanks. ##Vote Kurumi My biggest issue with voting incognito is 1) He is a vet, so if town it would be a huge loss. 2) He provides pro town ideas, like the listchecker + vote rigger idea, as well as info on roles. His play before the day post was still riddled with random accusations, but his role ideas was good. He claims he is playing weird because he doesn't have time to play a proper day 1, but I don't buy that. He has been reasonably active in the thread, and he is obviously reading it. I guess my question to Foolishness and Ace is, how do you explain his contributions with regards to roles if he is mafia? | ||
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On May 18 2011 07:53 bumatlarge wrote: Is 100% a high degree of certainty barundar? I seem to get that a lot. Excuse me? Throwing out a random degree of certainty without any reasoning doesn't seem suspicious to you? | ||
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Do people disagree with this assessment. Is there more to Barundars play than good general advice and pro-town words? What am I missing here? I'd ague that it is pretty pro town to limit the suspects, as is finaly happening. Yes I haven't thrown out random accusations, as the rest of the town has been so happy to, because I couldn't see the reason to. I have my suspects, and I will bring them up after today, but I see no reason to bring forward more suspects at this point. If you think I'm not capable of doing like any other here and throw random accusations as town, you are severely under estimating me. I am not a newbie at this game, despite not having played with you before, and I'm smart enough to just follow suit with the rest of the town and throw accusations as scum. However, instead I called attention upon myself for arguing against it, which is quite the opposite of what any reasonable mafia player would do. You are looking too hard for something that isn't there. | ||
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Please don't screw the vote list up with vote rigging. To the townies voting for me (I'm looking at you bum), I hope you shape up after this! My reads for day 0+1 was: Mafia: Incognito (obv) one of dreamflower/kitaman - lurk all day-->weak reason to vote me KillerSOS - clearly watching thread without writing, dooms me without even posting. OriginalName - surfing modkill tresshold, reading thread but placeholder vote. I didn't find Radfield to be mafia, traitor at worst. Take my reads with a grain of salt, its day 1 after all. In general I don't think mafia was very active day 1. Town did the work for them by throwing around mass accusations. The town had a serious case of everyone thinking they where smarter than everyone else. Sometimes playing town is not about accusations, but about picking the right persons to listen to. All mafia had to do was lay low. GL everyone~ | ||
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Ye I care that much | ||
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On May 18 2011 12:36 Incognito wrote: So mafia wasn't active day 1, yet I'm mafia? Would you say I was inactive? I'd say that I am the most visible player in the thread, but of course I could be wrong. Not until you got under pressure no. You disagree? | ||
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Even before I was supposedly "pressured", I haven't been trying to hide. I mean, if you look at my post times you'll see that my explanation that I was out of town actually does make sense. And like I've said before, I invite people to scrutinize me, since I know I'm town. Even if you don't like my playstyle, I'd still say that I've been the most controversial player here, even before I was supposedly "pressured". I'm just curious that you think I wasn't "active" earlier and that apparently I'm not noticed until now. You keep talking about your playstyle and whether people like it :/. I didn't vote you for your playstyle, I voted you for your lack of reasons. You have only started doing analysis and reasons after you got a head in vote. And from your previous observation that mafia was content having 10 lynch targets, I'd say that if I was mafia, I'd be content to sit out on the sidelines and watch someone else get lynched, no? You seemed quite content until you actually got a head... | ||
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Alignment Checks: These are the people I find somewhat suspicious, or who it would be nice to have an alignment check on. Barundar Node Tnkted Incognito Radfield Ace I'd add suspicious votes to the list and remove node and tnkted. From the 3 different band wagons, these are the 3 people I am most suspicious of: GMarshal: does a complete turn around from: none of the lynches are good -->Kavdragon KillerSOS: vote in the vote thread, but no explanation in thread. Complaints about Kav mislynch but have been completely silent up until that point. Definition of reading thread without posting. Chaoser: Votes incog without much explanation. Only reason for mafia to come out in numbers for this lynch would be if incognito is mafia. Kav flipped green and I'm green as well. Meaning if incognito is also green, the majority of mafia would have no reason to involve themselves in the lynch. In that case I would be looking the most at people with placeholder votes (only 1 vote): Kurumi Eiii Mr.Wiggles Scamp OriginalName Eiii seemed way too active during the lynch to define his vote as a placeholder. Kurumi is most likely sleeping, and did a decent analysis on me. So of those 3, Wiggles, Scamp and OriginalName stand out the most to me. | ||
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I guess from this I have to infer that Barundar is probably town. The problem is that at this point every time I read his posts my eyes mist over red, so I'm going to have to let other players be the judge of him moving forward. I was looking forward to hearing from you when I flipped! In all seriousness I pretty much ignored your analysis as stupid and went to bed fed up. But if you have questions for me I'll try and answer as well as I can. | ||
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My tentative posting boils down to having to choice between a bunch of lynches, none of which I could say I felt completely good about. | ||
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On May 19 2011 14:41 chaoser wrote: For now I think we need to focus on the people we were focusing on yesterday, that being Incognito and Barundar. If it comes to it, we can ask for the double lynch and then deal with it when it comes. I'd love to hear your suspects and why, not just general finger pointing. Mafia will probably have the inventor by now. Even if they chose Thief over Copy Cat, they would most likely steal role from Scamp before killing him. | ||
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Politician As a person used to getting your way by any means necessary you may PM me during the day to buy a player's vote(...) Also, if you buy the King's vote, you will have his lynch as well. At this point KillerSOS have still not given an opinion on anyone in the thread, and he avoided the thread when he voted yesterday. In the other game he posted way more day 1, as vigilante. As such he would be a good choice for a forced day vig. | ||
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Ver can the Kingmaker lynch and/or America nuke be redirected by Politician after they have been set off? I'm leaning town on Caller and Fishball, so it's between Node and Incognito for me regarding the second mafia, and I think Node has been the scummiest poster of the 2. ##Vote Node Chaosers sudden vote on Foolishness seems strange, so does chaosers suspect list. Why would he suspect dreamflower if he hasn't even read her posts? It doesn't really give me confidence he is actually looking for mafia. | ||
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On May 20 2011 16:57 Ver wrote: King lynch happens instantly, like a day vigi, so if the politician buys their vote after they lynch then they can't control the king's lynch as it already occurred. Cheers for clarifying. Will the King be notified if his vote is bought? | ||
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My vote is on Node then, seems like incognito is going to be it though. | ||
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I can't say I disagree with any of Incognitos reads, the fight between Chaoser and Foolishness seem off to me. | ||
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8. Foolishness [1][1] 11. Chaoser [2][2] 20. Chezinu [4][x] 13. KillerSOS [5][11] So I assume Chezinu is one of them. For the second mafia on GM's list, its down to: 23. Incognito [9][1] 24. Node [9][1] 1. flamewheel [3][3] flamewheel isn't really suspicious, but he does have the missing number [3] in my scum team. | ||
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The problem with the incog bandwagon since day 1 has been noone really took responsability for it. It has been several weak votes votes that simply met little resistance. Yesterday i kept hoping for ace or foolishness to point out what exactly it was that deemed incog mafia, but they never did. Both of them also switched votes (or in foolishness' case tried) near the end indicating a nowhere near strong case. Today it has been more of the same, with suspicious people like chaoser simply requesting that we stuck to discussing the same targets as yesterday. When incog claims america he is met with an attitude of "you knew you where gonna be suspicious, so you picked the most obvious role no mafia would pick to fool us. Calling your bluff!", which is obviously a bs WIFOM argument. Do you really think that not one of his buddies would support his claim if he was really mafia? feels like im the only one here pointing out the simplest explanation: he really is town, and he picked a role no sane mafia would pick. My opinion is: we hit mafia with chezinu. There is one scum left between incog, flamewheel, node and caller. Im leaning towards flamewheel being it, but it is by no means a strong reason. So instead we should hit the most obvious scum: killerSOS or chaoser. | ||
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On May 21 2011 00:40 Fishball wrote: At work and I don't have much time to reply in detail to you guys, but this sentence just made no sense whatsoever. It's like saying, "Let's hit Town with Fishball". At the fear of feeling the wrath of Ver, i have to say "poor town". I guess i could correct it to "my opinion is chezinu was/is mafia depending on the state of existance you're in when a nuke is heading your way." | ||
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1) We aren't killing people because they are on a list, we kill them because we think they are mafia. Everything else is a stupid waste of town KP. 2) We don't kill Ace just because he annoys Incognito. See above. 3) Veterans aren't going to win the game alone, this is not you vs. the world. | ||
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On May 21 2011 03:11 Ace wrote: Well Chezinu is the obvious Scum for sure. He didn't even attempt to defend himself so that's 1 down. I still think Incognito is the other Scum. I've already said it but I guess people expect some giant post which I won't do. It's very simple. Incognito has a role that was discussed earlier as a role a townie shouldn't have, and now he says "oh but Scum wouldn't be caught with this role, so it means I have to be town!" - um no. As I've always said Scum will do whatever they think furthers their win condition. If it means picking a role that shows up as Obvious Scum but they can WIFOM you to death and get away with it - they'll always pick it. Secondly this is just too convenient. Like I said he immediately launched the nuke at Chezinu with barely any discussion about it. No one save dreamflower ever even brought up a case about him and then all of a sudden it's a "pro-town move to nuke Chezinu". Come on people read the thread because this is bad play at it's finest. If he really is pro-town then why didn't he wait for input from anyone else or even discuss the other suspects? As for this lets lynch chaoser train it's the same thing as the Barundar train from yesterday. Shoddy reasoning and people not reading just going for the random lynch. Where is the analysis that chaoser is Scum? Ace I can't help but feel that whatever Incognito does gets dubed scum. Even killing mafia. Doesn't it bother you that foolishness is passively placing his vote on incognito, but letting you carry the whole weight of pushing it? That's really not like foolishness town play in mafia 37. Look at this pretty long post where he actually gives some opinions: + Show Spoiler + On May 20 2011 12:21 Foolishness wrote: I didn't ask about Incognito, I asked about the 2/5 people we know are mafia. I don't really care what you think of Incognito at the moment, but doesn't mean you can't say anything about the other 4 people on that list. I'm not going to need to start busting out percentage numbers to show you that we have a better chance of hitting mafia in that list than the rest of players am I? Why you want to ignore the information that's right in front of us? Yeah I'll admit I'm really bored this game but bypassing obvious facts because you think I'm mafia is either a desperate attempt of you to save your mafia buddies or you just haven't read the thread (the other option is you're stupid, but we both know that ain't true). It's also convenient because you're the third (maybe fourth) person to put suspicion on me. So maybe you figure "well shit half my mafia team might be dead by end of day...a few people seem to think Foolishness is mafia maybe I can distract the town and try to get him lynched". Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel. 2/5 are mafia. Surely you have some sort of idea of who they are yes? Obviously my thoughts are out in the open already. In fact you've been awfully quiet about this issue, instead saying things like, "GMarshal's claim isn't 100% reliable" (even though GMarshsal's attitude day 1 totally indicated he was a DT of some sort) and saying today's lynch boils down to Ace vs Incognito (which is lol?). Fine, want to hold your thoughts about that because you're not sure? How about that both Radfield and Incognito went against the "town consensus" (I put that in quotes for lack of better term) and did not pick the roles they were supposed to. I remember multiple people saying yesterday that if anyone was found with one of these roles we should kill them asap (especially something like America). Moreover there is a kingmaker this game. I find it reasonable that mafia has the journalist and/or politician in their hands. What if 4 mafia members grabbed: politician, journalist, kingmaker, America? Great combo if you ask me; town has no idea whether their day kills are going to be altered or not. Mafia sit back and laugh. Need I also remind you Radfield is the one that made Scamp claim he was inventor in the thread. That's a pro-town thing to do right? We need to find and kill the 2 mafia in that list. Hopefully Chez actually dies to speed up the process, although I wouldn't be surprised if a random person died instead. After those 2 mafia are dead I'm gunning for Radfield until he provides a better explanation of why he hasn't been playing with the town's interest. But if you want to overlook all this information to try to get me lynched I'm just going to laugh. Once the 2 mafia in the list are dead I will gladly encourage you to repost your accusations against me (and I will gladly respond), but for now you're just distracting the town, which is exactly what the mafia want. His post is mainly focused on killing the people on the list, no real argumentation back and forth regarding them. Instead he puts doubt on Radfield for not following his plan, but foolishness himself argued heavily against following the plan: + Show Spoiler + People are going to pick whatever they want to pick. I'm not opposed to general guidelines, such as town should focus on DT related roles or survival roles, whatever, but assigning roles to the top 5 players is just silly. If you are going to go that route, we should have everyone claim as soon as the picks are out. Either everyone should claim or no one should claim (that includes assigning roles before the picks). Nothing in between. [QUOTE]On May 16 2011 09:55 Foolishness wrote:[QUOTE]On May 16 2011 09:48 Radfield wrote: [QUOTE]On May 16 2011 09:01 Foolishness wrote: These plans for the top 5-8 players to pick roles is retarded in it's current form. If flamewheel/Caller/whoever don't agree to take their designated role (assuming we have a consensus on what roles they should take) we need to lynch them, no questions asked. What's to stop Scamp for all of a sudden posting "hey guys, I'm going to take Hero or Assassin (or whatever role he might want) sorry"? Are you just going to shift down the important role list even further? Yawn. Waste of time. People are going to pick whatever they want to pick. I'm not opposed to general guidelines, such as town should focus on DT related roles or survival roles, whatever, but assigning roles to the top 5 players is just silly. If you are going to go that route, we should have everyone claim as soon as the picks are out. Either everyone should claim or no one should claim (that includes assigning roles before the picks). Nothing in between.[/QUOTE] Foolishness' argumentation doesn't hold up. I feel like you are being used to keep up a town vs town fight. What is your opinion of KillerSOS? | ||
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Apart from the part where I'm certain he is scum, he is a better hit for a vig than one of the most active players in the thread. This way we get a proper vote with regards to incognito, where people actually have to take a stance. Even if it is more work, it is also better information moving forward. | ||
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Can people give their opinion on this Kings kill already so we can get back to the normal vote? I want to know if KillerSOS dies so I can start pushing for Chaoser :/ | ||
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On May 21 2011 05:54 Ace wrote: Other than that, if we look elsewhere the case against chaoser doesn't make sense. KillerSOS is the safe lynch since he's been lurking and is probably best left for the King lynch. This way we can somewhat do "both things at once" - normal lynch for the GM list, King lynch for the chaffe. This. I can save Chaoser for tomorrow if town insist on lynching into the list, but we get way more out of a proper vote between those than just killing them all off. | ||
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Wiggles I love your posts, but you disappear all time . I got a headache and it's midnight here so I'll head to bed. Switching my vote from the assumption you will vigi KillerSOS.My thoughts on the targets: Incognito: A lot of suspicion against him that I don't think will disappear easily. Has a dangerous role. I can understand people wanting him dead, but he seem clear town to me. Node: Always feel like he is picking up on the latest trend when posting, but doesn't seem to be hiding. Flamewheel: Last post was pretty good, and I really haven't looked too much into him. Chezinu wrote he was always town, he picked the [3] missing in my scum list, and I'm not sure I trust he picked JOAT. Posting = town, circumstantial stuff suspicious. Caller: Wants us to kill him. Good analysis of Kavdragon, albeit wrong. All of them are shitty options. ##Vote Node | ||
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Chezino those vids are awesome but I hope you die tonight. You too wiggles. | ||
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E: And please give ratings, one can only learn from one's mistakes. | ||
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Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
On June 13 2011 23:14 Qatol wrote: Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia. On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away. I see one problem with the first bit Qatol. When it comes to publishing medic lists it should be better to place them on reads than purely on facts such as experience or reputation. The exception being night 1 maybe, when most reads are still off. Medic lists with town reads can help determine the alignment of the guy who is posting them, and they are means by which town members can meaningfully discuss and contribute during nighttime. Of course the actual protection is better spend on an important player or role than on a simple town read, but medic lists where never meant to be more than guidelines. I guess there can be advantages to not revealing such reads in public, but doesn't the potential benefit from discussion outweight the information mafia can get from it? My biggest problem with posting lists of mafia is that it is way too easy to base these on "connections" or even "patterns" between players. Connections such as "he defended this guy that I was suspicious of and wanted to lynch", or patterns such as only focusing on inactives (my own mistake), is a simplification of scumhunting that is way too general and easy to manipulate. It feels like a shortcut simply to win an argument by bringing it down to a level where it can hardly be debated. | ||
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