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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Upon a quick second look, Caller seems fine.
I'm not going to shoot Incognito just yet. I still don't understand how anybody is buying him nuking ANYONE as a pro-town move. If you're a suspect and you nuke someone who is also on the suspect list then of course it's going to look like a "good move". I'm shocked some of you are actually buying this.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying Incognito is pro-town because of this move. I'm saying all WIFOM or motivations aside, killing chez is great for town.
I have my suspicion because of your Day 1 plan. I mean you can't even give me a decent reason for why you didn't follow it? But don't role claim, I could have said what your role is myself. For now we'll drop it.
You're still softballing suspicion on me here, so lets not drop it. Fishball, please back me up: ACE IF YOU KNOW MY ROLE, YOU KNOW MY REASONS. I'm honestly racking my brain trying to think of why someone town aligned would be calling me out after role-checking me, and I can't find any.
In fact, if you think I'm so scummy, blurt my role and build a case based on that, because I guarantee not one other player will find it scummy, or find any reason for you to have posted about my role in the thread at all.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 07:22 Chezinu wrote:"Be Strong, Be a Martyr, Be Brown." As the nukes fall from the sky and the Post-apocalyptic California becomes a reality. This is War.... War never changes... Fire falls down... Fire falls down! The Beast within is scorched. The fire shall purify me...Nothing shall hinder me now... Nothing... I no longer have conflicts within my soul. For death is imminent. I can now speak without repercussions. My town, forgive me. I disappoint not only myself but the town as a whole. What have I done? What can I claim that benefits the town? The Truth... I may be a hero of the past but in the present I'm nothing but a clueless player.. An illusion of greatness... Winning is deceptive.. For it is fleeting.. One moment, your on top of the mountain, the next your in the valley. Does it matter what greatness you've witness on the peaks when you are blinded in the darkness of the valley? Maybe so..maybe so.. For that is where one can gain his strength back. In hope that one day, through the sacrifice of a martyr he might one day stand on the peak. But what martyr can one hope in to be willing to give up his life to save another? Especially to save someone like me who is crazy and unrepairable by all means of psychiatric help.. How would they know if I would behave well on the mountain top? How would they know that I wouldn't abuse the opportunity given to me? If I were to be saved... I would need to be changed myself.. For my evil desires will lure me into insanity once again.. There must be a way to kill the evil within, is fire the answer? Will the fire consume the evilness within me and burn it into a crisp. Will this fire birth in me a new desire? A desire that will spread out of me and consume those around me? That they too will be free from there wickedness? Brown Forever, Forever Brown. What can stop this cycle of brownness? A hero is needed, A martyr who is stronger than brown itself, a priest willing to resurrect him whom sacrificed himself. For the hero, the martyr, and the priest shall unit together to form an unstoppable town force that will use fire to burn the impurities from brown earth. For brown is always slaking because it is always dearth.
If you picked Hero, I'm really glad Incog nuked you.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 20 2011 05:46 chaoser wrote:
Wow, I leave to get on a bus to NY and four hours later we got GM saying he's DT and Incognito saying he's America and nuking people. Here's a question for Incognito, all your actions so far have been motivated by a desire to seem pro-town. You keep going back to this idea that you are contributing a lot and you keep reframing the stance that you aren't doing what mafia normally do. I feel like your argument boils down to "You can't 100% say I'm mafia therefore I'm not." or "You say I'm scummy but would Mafia really act this way that stands out?". While that's WIFOM, the fact of the matter is that you have been acting very anti-town. From picking America to pulling that "wishy washy" lynch on Kav, you've been consistently acting anti-town. It's a trend that frankly doesn't strike me as very helpful and definitely doesn't put me at ease.
##vote: incognito for now. Let's see how Chezinu flip.
Lets see how you flip how bout.
That was not a contribution. That's a bunch of rehashed attacks(some legitimate) on Incognito. No one needs to write a paragraph about voting for Incog at this point unless they are scum(and he is green) or if they're bringing up something new.
Assuming one of Incog or Chez is green and one is red, who is your other suspect out of the 6? Which players do you have a pro-town read on and which an anti-town read. If Incognito was day vigged today, who would your second suspect be?
Caller, you wanted something to do, tell me if Chaoser is red. Also, if you could check into tnked that would be a worthy assignment.
Flamewheel, you know your alignment, so assuming GM is telling the truth, who do we need to off out of the other four? If you think Incog is town, then you just found 2 players out of three who are mafia. Who is who?
Bumatlarge, where have you gone. It's Day 2, it's time to pick it up, not disappear.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 20 2011 05:46 chaoser wrote:
Wow, I leave to get on a bus to NY and four hours later we got GM saying he's DT and Incognito saying he's America and nuking people. Here's a question for Incognito, all your actions so far have been motivated by a desire to seem pro-town. You keep going back to this idea that you are contributing a lot and you keep reframing the stance that you aren't doing what mafia normally do. I feel like your argument boils down to "You can't 100% say I'm mafia therefore I'm not." or "You say I'm scummy but would Mafia really act this way that stands out?". While that's WIFOM, the fact of the matter is that you have been acting very anti-town. From picking America to pulling that "wishy washy" lynch on Kav, you've been consistently acting anti-town. It's a trend that frankly doesn't strike me as very helpful and definitely doesn't put me at ease.
##vote: incognito for now. Let's see how Chezinu flip.
Also, is there a question in here??
It's good to know that someone "consistently acting anti-town" doesn't strike you as helpful or put you at ease.
So when should we lynch Chaoser? I realize we have other business at hand but if there is no agreement among incog, flame, node, caller then this bares looking at as a sober second option.
I'll also admit I haven't gone over his posts a ton, but certainly will be doing so.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I agree with tnkted that lynching Incog is not the best course of action. That being said, I don't have a very anti-town read on Caller or flame right now, and upon further inspection, Node isn't the scummiest player around by a long stretch.
So where does that leave us? It means that unless a strong majority has a solid read on Caller, flame or Node, we take our lynch elsewhere and start offing the rest of the mafia. The Kavdragon list isn't going anywhere, and obviously our investigative roles will narrow down the search somewhat.
Consider that the mafia will not be firing into the Kav lynch list, given that each kill would narrow down our suspect list. Those players are safe from mafia, so lets not do their job for them by firing indiscriminately.
So what am I really advocating then? That we play this normal and try to lynch the scummiest player around. Yes, many think that's incog, and if most people think he's scum then I'm not going to waste the day trying to defend him. Instead I think we should direct our votes towards Chaoser, who strikes me as very clearly scum. I don't have time right now to build a case to his liking, but his posts(and actions) fairly speak for themselves. If there is still a need or an option for me to build a case against him tonight, I will.
##Kinglynch: chaoser
Plenty of other suspects around for our regular lynch. Originalname is a great choice(albeit an easy/safe one), but there are a few other decent choices as well.
##Vote Originalname
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 04:34 Ace wrote:
@GMarshal: If we don't lynch Incognito then who from the remaining players on the list is the second Scum? We have to clear that out first. Does ANYONE else on that list appear Scummier than Incognito? If so, vote for them.
I'm not trying to be a dink here, but I don't fully understand why we need to clear the list out. I understand we need to eventually, but why right away, right now? We have the information, so it can wait for us to deal with it until we're ready. Our ultimate goal is to kill the mafia, so if targeting players on the list doesn't get that done the best, then we let it lie for now. No?
No one really has a anti-town read on either Caller or flame, GMarshal seems town aligned, Incog seems town to a large portion, and Node doesn't seem particularly scummy. It seems to me that waiting a night cycle and putting some investigations on those remaining 5 is a prudent course of action.
If mafia want to shoot players off the list, great. Better them than us.
Also, GMarshall, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those are almost mostly 'lock-solid townies'.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:02 Barundar wrote:
You guys are getting side tracked. Town shouldn't vote for either of you unless you are mafia, the point is moot.
Can people give their opinion on this Kings kill already so we can get back to the normal vote? I want to know if KillerSOS dies so I can start pushing for Chaoser :/
Personally I think KillerSOS is a bit of a waste. Chaoser and Originalname should be dying I think. That being said, any mix of Chaoser + one of the others is a good day I think.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
EBWOP: Also, GMarshall, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those players are mainly made up of 'lock-solid townies'.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 05:07 Radfield wrote:On May 21 2011 04:34 Ace wrote:
@GMarshal: If we don't lynch Incognito then who from the remaining players on the list is the second Scum? We have to clear that out first. Does ANYONE else on that list appear Scummier than Incognito? If so, vote for them. I'm not trying to be a dink here, but I don't fully understand why we need to clear the list out. I understand we need to eventually, but why right away, right now? We have the information, so it can wait for us to deal with it until we're ready. Our ultimate goal is to kill the mafia, so if targeting players on the list doesn't get that done the best, then we let it lie for now. No? No one really has a anti-town read on either Caller or flame, GMarshal seems town aligned, Incog seems town to a large portion, and Node doesn't seem particularly scummy. It seems to me that waiting a night cycle and putting some investigations on those remaining 5 is a prudent course of action. If mafia want to shoot players off the list, great. Better them than us. Also, GMarshall, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those are almost mostly 'lock-solid townies'. We clear it out because we know 2 out of 6 are scum. Why would we go another direction when we already know where to look? That makes no sense. Secondly a "large portion" of town hasn't claimed Incog is innocent, especially looking at the voting thread so that point is false. If you don't have an anti-town read on Caller or flame, believe GMashal and Incog are town, and that Node doesn't seem Scummy then who does that leave?
You're right, a large portion of town has not. You and GMarshall are right, it's only the last 2 pages or so that have come to incogs defense. You have to admit though, that the chances of either framer or Godfatherframer being in the game is fairly decent, and the chance of them framing incog(assuming they exist) is fairly good.
Mind you I'm not saying that's what happened, and I think there probably ARE two mafia in that list. My list right now from townie to scum is: GMarshall, Flamewheel = Incog, Caller, Node. The problem is, that the scummiest players on there (caller/node) don't strike me as all that scummy. I have a few scummy reads right now, alot of pro-town reads, and about 8 inbetweens. Hence, why not let our investigative roles do their job(we know we have GMarshal) and THEN start the firing lines.(Mind you, this raises all sorts of framer problems and suicide bombers problems)
Anyways, I'm not super hard against shooting into the list, I just think that waiting a bit and clearing out some of the other scummy chaff is a better move right now.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:45 Foolishness wrote:
If there still is a mafia on the list after Incog and Chez are dead I want to kill Node.
To be perfectly clear, I'm not dead set against this. But when does it stop? If only 1 of Incog, chez and node flip red, are we gonna lynch caller, flame and GM? At some point we need to accept that there are a number of alignment changing roles that could be in the game.
Also, as I mentioned before, I don't trust my judgment concerning Incog as he's fooled me before. Him being lynched isn't the end of the world, and gives us some strong information at the worst(no matter the flip).
+ Show Spoiler +
Where the F is the politician. I honestly cannot see why mafia would take kingmaker and not politician. It's pointless. My current assumption is that the mafia politician is an inactive, and that the mafia actually planned to have the politician lynch by now....
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Reading that analysis of KillerSOS makes me think he just terrible, and not scum at all. However, I've certainly played with players on my scum-team who posted like that.
I think we should shoot Killer, and vote normally. We get very little info from a KillerSOS vote, regardless of flip. We get all sorts of info from a Incog/Node vote no matter what.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Chaoser is on both Incog and Node.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 09:24 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 09:18 Radfield wrote:
Reading that analysis of KillerSOS makes me think he just terrible, and not scum at all. However, I've certainly played with players on my scum-team who posted like that.
I think we should shoot Killer, and vote normally. We get very little info from a KillerSOS vote, regardless of flip. We get all sorts of info from a Incog/Node vote no matter what. You are contradicting yourself. If you believe the Incog/Node flip would give more information than a Killer flip, why shoot Killer first? Wouldn't it be better the other way around?
The info I was referring to is where people place their votes and why, etc. No one even needs to post a reason to vote KillerSOS, so even if he flips red, we get nothing from the vote.
Given the fact that this thread is ultra-quiet, i'm getting the feeling we may be heading towards several dead townies.
I'd much prefer to lynch Node over Incog, but Incog dying will really clear the air and allow things to move forward as town, which is what we need to happen. There are certain things that will be easier for me to see once Incog flips.
That being said, I think Node is the better lynch.
##Vote Node
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 09:33 KillerSOS wrote:
Managed to get through the last 2 pages on my horrible phone internet... If you want to lynch me it's a waste, but feel free.
I'm PYP Tracker
Great, I'm willing to call off this hit. No mafia player would take Tracker. It's a terrible role for them in a game with a plethora of roles for them to take that are helpful to both mafia and town.
We have rolecheckers, a simple rolecheck confirms this.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
This KillerSOS train already felt crappy anyways.
Lets either focus on Incog/Node or preferably focus on chaoser/Originalname.
No one has built an official case thus far against chaoser, but he's had a lot of defense, so I'm going to start.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 09:41 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 09:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On May 21 2011 09:33 KillerSOS wrote:
Managed to get through the last 2 pages on my horrible phone internet... If you want to lynch me it's a waste, but feel free.
I'm PYP Tracker
Results of your action last night? Ace visited Radfield. Ace said so himself though.
Whoa, that sounds like BS though......
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I think I take back my crappy train comment.
Sorry KillerSOS, bad luck for you if you actually followed ace, but that's a totally unacceptable answer. I think maybe one of the only unacceptable answers you could have had....
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 09:55 kitaman27 wrote:
Does it even matter if killer is the tracker or not?
Roles != Alignment
They kinda do. It's not a hard rule, but I bet at the end of this game over 90% of the people have roles which go with their alignment. But I agree in principle, any role or roleclaim is only an addition to info we already have, it's nothing concrete.
On May 21 2011 09:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On second thought I'm not switching votes and I don't buy Killer's claim at all. Radfield I'd switch your vote to killer if you think incog is town. Node isn't going to die by standard lynch, theres not enough time left.
That assumes Killer doesn't get Wiggled first. Anyways, I'm down.
Vote to kinglynch Node
##Vote KillerSOS
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On Incognito: Incognito is town. There are no two ways about it. I've thought about this some more, and theres just no way he's scum. Looking back on Day 1, Incog was sitting with about 5 votes, decon with 3 and Barundar had just gotten 2 after my case against him. The idea that Incog would try to save himself by building a case against Kavdragon, a player with zero votes, is ludicrous. I had given him a clear route to attack Barundar(he even agreed with my analysis at the time) and a concerted effort against Decon would probably have more success. The idea that he would go and pick a random townie with zero votes to build a case on is seriously stupid.... unless of course he was town, and actually thought that.
Incog will flip town. Lynching him is a terrible idea.
On shooting into the list: This is not just a bad idea, it's an anti-town idea. It's been said a couple times lately, and has really solidified it for me, but it needs to be hammered home. We vote to kill scum. Not to narrow down lists, not to try and confirm players. In a game with this many messed up roles in it, pure scum hunting is our best tool. The idea of policy lynches into the list is an awful awful idea.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 21 2011 11:26 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
##Lynch: OriginalName
Care to walk us through your thought process Wiggles?
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EPT
