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In my opinion use the kingmaker lynch and the nuke on the same person. If not, if one of the targets is mafia, and the other isn't, we risk that the one on mafia is redirected by politician on to a townie. If we mislynch on top of that, we have killed 3 townies in one day while mafia only killed 1 townie at night.
Ver can the Kingmaker lynch and/or America nuke be redirected by Politician after they have been set off?
I'm leaning town on Caller and Fishball, so it's between Node and Incognito for me regarding the second mafia, and I think Node has been the scummiest poster of the 2.
##Vote Node
Chaosers sudden vote on Foolishness seems strange, so does chaosers suspect list. Why would he suspect dreamflower if he hasn't even read her posts? It doesn't really give me confidence he is actually looking for mafia.
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Fair enough, it's clear on america then. What about the lynch though? Doesn't really say what happens if wiggles write in thread, and the vote is then bought. Do they need to buy his vote before he places something in the thread? Will he be notified he can't write in thread if politician buy his vote?
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On May 20 2011 16:57 Ver wrote:
King lynch happens instantly, like a day vigi, so if the politician buys their vote after they lynch then they can't control the king's lynch as it already occurred.
Cheers for clarifying. Will the King be notified if his vote is bought?
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Well I'm stupid for asking then. So I guess wiggles can set a time for a mini vote on who he wants to dayvig, he kills the winner (loser), and we use the information to decide on the normal lynch?
My vote is on Node then, seems like incognito is going to be it though.
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You forgot GM bum, listchecker DT claim.
I can't say I disagree with any of Incognitos reads, the fight between Chaoser and Foolishness seem off to me.
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My scumteam with numbers:
8. Foolishness [1][1]
11. Chaoser [2][2]
20. Chezinu [4][x]
13. KillerSOS [5][11]
So I assume Chezinu is one of them. For the second mafia on GM's list, its down to:
23. Incognito [9][1]
24. Node [9][1]
1. flamewheel [3][3]
flamewheel isn't really suspicious, but he does have the missing number [3] in my scum team.
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I agree with tnkted on incog's reaction being very town, and when i read through incog's reads they seem fair and well reasoned.
The problem with the incog bandwagon since day 1 has been noone really took responsability for it. It has been several weak votes votes that simply met little resistance. Yesterday i kept hoping for ace or foolishness to point out what exactly it was that deemed incog mafia, but they never did. Both of them also switched votes (or in foolishness' case tried) near the end indicating a nowhere near strong case. Today it has been more of the same, with suspicious people like chaoser simply requesting that we stuck to discussing the same targets as yesterday. When incog claims america he is met with an attitude of "you knew you where gonna be suspicious, so you picked the most obvious role no mafia would pick to fool us. Calling your bluff!", which is obviously a bs WIFOM argument. Do you really think that not one of his buddies would support his claim if he was really mafia? feels like im the only one here pointing out the simplest explanation: he really is town, and he picked a role no sane mafia would pick.
My opinion is: we hit mafia with chezinu. There is one scum left between incog, flamewheel, node and caller. Im leaning towards flamewheel being it, but it is by no means a strong reason. So instead we should hit the most obvious scum: killerSOS or chaoser.
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On May 21 2011 00:40 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 00:28 Barundar wrote:
My opinion is: we hit mafia with chezinu. At work and I don't have much time to reply in detail to you guys, but this sentence just made no sense whatsoever. It's like saying, "Let's hit Town with Fishball".
At the fear of feeling the wrath of Ver, i have to say "poor town".
I guess i could correct it to "my opinion is chezinu was/is mafia depending on the state of existance you're in when a nuke is heading your way."
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Am I the only one annoyed at how full of themselves some of the veterans are? Caller asks to be killed because he doesn't have time to play, when there is a bunch of substitutes ready. Incognito thinks we should kill Ace even though he thinks Ace is town, after Incognito himself is dead. Foolishness and Ace has been gunning for Incognito all game long. And both Caller and Incognito thinks Flamewheel will somehow win for the town after they are dead.
1) We aren't killing people because they are on a list, we kill them because we think they are mafia. Everything else is a stupid waste of town KP.
2) We don't kill Ace just because he annoys Incognito. See above.
3) Veterans aren't going to win the game alone, this is not you vs. the world.
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Meh that came off very harsh. Sorry :/
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On May 21 2011 03:11 Ace wrote:
Well Chezinu is the obvious Scum for sure. He didn't even attempt to defend himself so that's 1 down.
I still think Incognito is the other Scum. I've already said it but I guess people expect some giant post which I won't do. It's very simple. Incognito has a role that was discussed earlier as a role a townie shouldn't have, and now he says "oh but Scum wouldn't be caught with this role, so it means I have to be town!" - um no. As I've always said Scum will do whatever they think furthers their win condition. If it means picking a role that shows up as Obvious Scum but they can WIFOM you to death and get away with it - they'll always pick it.
Secondly this is just too convenient. Like I said he immediately launched the nuke at Chezinu with barely any discussion about it. No one save dreamflower ever even brought up a case about him and then all of a sudden it's a "pro-town move to nuke Chezinu". Come on people read the thread because this is bad play at it's finest. If he really is pro-town then why didn't he wait for input from anyone else or even discuss the other suspects?
As for this lets lynch chaoser train it's the same thing as the Barundar train from yesterday. Shoddy reasoning and people not reading just going for the random lynch. Where is the analysis that chaoser is Scum?
Ace I can't help but feel that whatever Incognito does gets dubed scum. Even killing mafia.
Doesn't it bother you that foolishness is passively placing his vote on incognito, but letting you carry the whole weight of pushing it? That's really not like foolishness town play in mafia 37. Look at this pretty long post where he actually gives some opinions:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 20 2011 12:21 Foolishness wrote:I didn't ask about Incognito, I asked about the 2/5 people we know are mafia. I don't really care what you think of Incognito at the moment, but doesn't mean you can't say anything about the other 4 people on that list. I'm not going to need to start busting out percentage numbers to show you that we have a better chance of hitting mafia in that list than the rest of players am I? Why you want to ignore the information that's right in front of us? Yeah I'll admit I'm really bored this game but bypassing obvious facts because you think I'm mafia is either a desperate attempt of you to save your mafia buddies or you just haven't read the thread (the other option is you're stupid, but we both know that ain't true). It's also convenient because you're the third (maybe fourth) person to put suspicion on me. So maybe you figure "well shit half my mafia team might be dead by end of day...a few people seem to think Foolishness is mafia maybe I can distract the town and try to get him lynched". Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel. 2/5 are mafia. Surely you have some sort of idea of who they are yes? Obviously my thoughts are out in the open already. In fact you've been awfully quiet about this issue, instead saying things like, "GMarshal's claim isn't 100% reliable" (even though GMarshsal's attitude day 1 totally indicated he was a DT of some sort) and saying today's lynch boils down to Ace vs Incognito (which is lol?). Fine, want to hold your thoughts about that because you're not sure? How about that both Radfield and Incognito went against the "town consensus" (I put that in quotes for lack of better term) and did not pick the roles they were supposed to. I remember multiple people saying yesterday that if anyone was found with one of these roles we should kill them asap (especially something like America). Moreover there is a kingmaker this game. I find it reasonable that mafia has the journalist and/or politician in their hands. What if 4 mafia members grabbed: politician, journalist, kingmaker, America? Great combo if you ask me; town has no idea whether their day kills are going to be altered or not. Mafia sit back and laugh. Need I also remind you Radfield is the one that made Scamp claim he was inventor in the thread. That's a pro-town thing to do right? We need to find and kill the 2 mafia in that list. Hopefully Chez actually dies to speed up the process, although I wouldn't be surprised if a random person died instead. After those 2 mafia are dead I'm gunning for Radfield until he provides a better explanation of why he hasn't been playing with the town's interest. But if you want to overlook all this information to try to get me lynched I'm just going to laugh. Once the 2 mafia in the list are dead I will gladly encourage you to repost your accusations against me (and I will gladly respond), but for now you're just distracting the town, which is exactly what the mafia want.
His post is mainly focused on killing the people on the list, no real argumentation back and forth regarding them. Instead he puts doubt on Radfield for not following his plan, but foolishness himself argued heavily against following the plan:
+ Show Spoiler +People are going to pick whatever they want to pick. I'm not opposed to general guidelines, such as town should focus on DT related roles or survival roles, whatever, but assigning roles to the top 5 players is just silly. If you are going to go that route, we should have everyone claim as soon as the picks are out. Either everyone should claim or no one should claim (that includes assigning roles before the picks). Nothing in between. [QUOTE] On May 16 2011 09:55 Foolishness wrote:[QUOTE] On May 16 2011 09:48 Radfield wrote:[QUOTE] On May 16 2011 09:01 Foolishness wrote:These plans for the top 5-8 players to pick roles is retarded in it's current form. If flamewheel/Caller/whoever don't agree to take their designated role (assuming we have a consensus on what roles they should take) we need to lynch them, no questions asked. What's to stop Scamp for all of a sudden posting "hey guys, I'm going to take Hero or Assassin (or whatever role he might want) sorry"? Are you just going to shift down the important role list even further? Yawn. Waste of time. People are going to pick whatever they want to pick. I'm not opposed to general guidelines, such as town should focus on DT related roles or survival roles, whatever, but assigning roles to the top 5 players is just silly. If you are going to go that route, we should have everyone claim as soon as the picks are out. Either everyone should claim or no one should claim (that includes assigning roles before the picks). Nothing in between.[/QUOTE]
Foolishness' argumentation doesn't hold up. I feel like you are being used to keep up a town vs town fight.
What is your opinion of KillerSOS?
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That's exactly why I'm arguing for killing KillerSOS with King.
Apart from the part where I'm certain he is scum, he is a better hit for a vig than one of the most active players in the thread. This way we get a proper vote with regards to incognito, where people actually have to take a stance. Even if it is more work, it is also better information moving forward.
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You guys are getting side tracked. Town shouldn't vote for either of you unless you are mafia, the point is moot.
Can people give their opinion on this Kings kill already so we can get back to the normal vote? I want to know if KillerSOS dies so I can start pushing for Chaoser :/
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On May 21 2011 05:54 Ace wrote:
Other than that, if we look elsewhere the case against chaoser doesn't make sense. KillerSOS is the safe lynch since he's been lurking and is probably best left for the King lynch. This way we can somewhat do "both things at once" - normal lynch for the GM list, King lynch for the chaffe.
This. I can save Chaoser for tomorrow if town insist on lynching into the list, but we get way more out of a proper vote between those than just killing them all off.
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Meapak you have hosted too many games to rely on blue roles to win the game. Do you really want town to quit all scum hunting for 2-3 days because we have a listcheck? This isn't about killing townies faster than mafia can.
Wiggles I love your posts, but you disappear all time  . I got a headache and it's midnight here so I'll head to bed. Switching my vote from the assumption you will vigi KillerSOS.
My thoughts on the targets:
Incognito: A lot of suspicion against him that I don't think will disappear easily. Has a dangerous role. I can understand people wanting him dead, but he seem clear town to me.
Node: Always feel like he is picking up on the latest trend when posting, but doesn't seem to be hiding.
Flamewheel: Last post was pretty good, and I really haven't looked too much into him. Chezinu wrote he was always town, he picked the [3] missing in my scum list, and I'm not sure I trust he picked JOAT. Posting = town, circumstantial stuff suspicious.
Caller: Wants us to kill him. Good analysis of Kavdragon, albeit wrong.
All of them are shitty options.
##Vote Node
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Sorry for defending Incognito. Completely agreed with Ace and his list.
Chezino those vids are awesome but I hope you die tonight. You too wiggles.
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Haha I had a lot of fun this game, GG town! Not very impressed with my play, but at least I got to be the godfather, and thanks to Node's invention my listcheck went off.
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Haha I wrote an answer to Radfield, but with Ver's comments coming up I'm afraid to embarrass myself xD. For now I just want to say thanks a lot for giving direct feedback, will work on those points.
E: And please give ratings, one can only learn from one's mistakes.
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On June 13 2011 23:14 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly. Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia. On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away.
I see one problem with the first bit Qatol. When it comes to publishing medic lists it should be better to place them on reads than purely on facts such as experience or reputation. The exception being night 1 maybe, when most reads are still off. Medic lists with town reads can help determine the alignment of the guy who is posting them, and they are means by which town members can meaningfully discuss and contribute during nighttime. Of course the actual protection is better spend on an important player or role than on a simple town read, but medic lists where never meant to be more than guidelines. I guess there can be advantages to not revealing such reads in public, but doesn't the potential benefit from discussion outweight the information mafia can get from it?
My biggest problem with posting lists of mafia is that it is way too easy to base these on "connections" or even "patterns" between players. Connections such as "he defended this guy that I was suspicious of and wanted to lynch", or patterns such as only focusing on inactives (my own mistake), is a simplification of scumhunting that is way too general and easy to manipulate. It feels like a shortcut simply to win an argument by bringing it down to a level where it can hardly be debated.
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EPT
