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Sleeper Cell Mafia - Page 15

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Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 26 2011 18:25 GMT
#281
On April 27 2011 03:11 Ace wrote:
Did you conveniently forget to read the post right above you?

No I answered your question before I scrolled through the rest of the thread. Forgive me for being fallible. I answered your question with a question. Which quoted post were you talking about?
Or are you being conveniently obtuse?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 26 2011 18:28 GMT
#282
And just to be clear I am not asking tnkted to role claim. I want to know why he felt compelled to bring it up pre game just to say "Let's just forget this" Wtf do people do that for?

Life can only kill you once.
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
April 26 2011 18:49 GMT
#283
He's just trying to draw attention to himself. If he wanted to breadcrumb silently, he could.
:3
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 26 2011 18:54 GMT
#284
On April 27 2011 03:28 Jackal58 wrote:
And just to be clear I am not asking tnkted to role claim. I want to know why he felt compelled to bring it up pre game just to say "Let's just forget this" Wtf do people do that for?



Well on that I somewhat agree. My only issue with him was the fact that he claimed it as a bread crumb when there is no such thing as a public bread crumb. If you guys have an issue with that it makes more sense imo than getting upset over a supposed role claim that didn't happen.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4198 Posts
April 26 2011 18:58 GMT
#285
On April 27 2011 03:17 Zorkmid wrote:
Strategy to make the DTs waste checks on you perhaps?

Not exactly a town friendly move, is it?
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 26 2011 19:19 GMT
#286
Why the vote Ace?
Life can only kill you once.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 26 2011 19:27 GMT
#287
Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
April 26 2011 19:28 GMT
#288
On April 27 2011 04:27 Ace wrote:
Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you?


Can you substantiate why you feel that way? I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind why you think he is the most likely to be scum.

Oh, and Eiii and all the other lurkers, post more before I get annoyed
Moderator
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 26 2011 19:29 GMT
#289
On April 27 2011 04:27 Ace wrote:
Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you?

And what makes me scummy?
Life can only kill you once.
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 26 2011 19:35 GMT
#290
I haven't created some super secret name game whose purpose can't be revealed.
I haven't made semi claims and posts proclaiming I have a secret but I'm not telling.
I have answered any questions asked of me. Except for you know the vague one you asked me and never clarified.
I'm not lurking.
What have I done that is scummy?
Disagree with you?
Life can only kill you once.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 26 2011 19:40 GMT
#291
+ Show Spoiler [1st posts] +

On April 26 2011 23:37 Jackal58 wrote:
We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these.
That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him.
Let's start with this one.
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote:
I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.

I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok...

So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:
Yep, got mine too.

This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.

And then continued again:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote:
Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.

I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.

Here:

WEIRD ROLE, DUDES

And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts.
He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it.



Now this post:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote:
Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later):
DSBETNLBNTF

Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:

1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.

2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/

Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.

Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells?
I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do?



And lastly
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote:
it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.

Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.

IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs.

Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get.


I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted.
Sorry twinkles.



First lets us realize that as of the first line of his post Jackal's insistence is that we should find our Day 1 lynch. My issue here is that tnkted's announcement of a strange role is being put out there as if it's scummy when it isn't. It's not anti-town, it's not scummy - it's just bad play. Now when I posted my list earlier about the 3 people who I'd contact I listed Jackal and my reasoning was that he doesn't suck. Which means I think more often than not he can recognize bad town play over scum play and imo this is an obvious case of it.



+ Show Spoiler [2nd posts] +

On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote:
Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.

Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter.

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:
Yep, got mine too.

This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.

On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote:
Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.

I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.

Here:

WEIRD ROLE, DUDES

On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it.

????

I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.



This was from the previous page when I asserted that tnkted never role claimed and Jackal quoted some of his posts that didn't show that he did. Pretty much this is either Scum behavior or Jackal mixing up tnkted's bad play with Scum play.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Jackal58
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4264 Posts
April 26 2011 19:57 GMT
#292
On April 27 2011 04:40 Ace wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [1st posts] +

On April 26 2011 23:37 Jackal58 wrote:
We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these.
That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him.
Let's start with this one.
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote:
I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.

I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok...

So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:
Yep, got mine too.

This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.

And then continued again:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote:
Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.

I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.

Here:

WEIRD ROLE, DUDES

And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts.
He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it.



Now this post:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote:
Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later):
DSBETNLBNTF

Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:

1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.

2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/

Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2.

Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells?
I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do?



And lastly
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote:
it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.

Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.

IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs.

Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get.


I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted.
Sorry twinkles.



First lets us realize that as of the first line of his post Jackal's insistence is that we should find our Day 1 lynch. My issue here is that tnkted's announcement of a strange role is being put out there as if it's scummy when it isn't. It's not anti-town, it's not scummy - it's just bad play. Now when I posted my list earlier about the 3 people who I'd contact I listed Jackal and my reasoning was that he doesn't suck. Which means I think more often than not he can recognize bad town play over scum play and imo this is an obvious case of it.



+ Show Spoiler [2nd posts] +

On April 27 2011 02:32 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote:
Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.

Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter.

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote:
Yep, got mine too.

This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role.

On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote:
Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.

I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.

Here:

WEIRD ROLE, DUDES

On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it.

????

I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.



This was from the previous page when I asserted that tnkted never role claimed and Jackal quoted some of his posts that didn't show that he did. Pretty much this is either Scum behavior or Jackal mixing up tnkted's bad play with Scum play.

Was not an insistence. You make it sound as though I was making demands. I put forth a suggestion. There was very little activity in the thread. I jump started it. I chose the most erratic seeming player (in my opinion) to look at. I freely admitted I suck at analysis and asked for the opinions of others. I got one opinion from GM and a rather odd post from you. You said tnkted never role claimed or hinted at one. Your words not mine. So I quoted 3 posts of his that absolutely hinted at a role claim.
So I put forth some analysis admitting I'm not very good at it. Point out an error you made in your assertion of tnkted not even hinting at a role claim and I'm scum?

I've been trying really really hard to shake this reputation I have of being a tunneler. I'm trying really really hard to develop an ability to do analysis. All I have received for my efforts in my last game and this one is labeled scum on day one. If that's the way it's going to be fuck it I'll just tunnel people.
Life can only kill you once.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
April 26 2011 20:03 GMT
#293
Sorry Ace, but I think your analysis is faulty, I don't see Jackal as being scum atm. It could be my relative inexperience, or it might just be that we disagree on that, but I think that at the moment jackal is a terrible lynch, at the very least he is being vocal, which is much, much more than what we can say for many of the players in this thread.

I know I've said this many times before, but I think our best call today is to lynch a lurker, with a non-unifed mafia it also means they have no way of knowing if they are lynching a buddy, which makes it much less likely to be misdirected than the usual attempts at day 1 inactive lynches.
Moderator
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
April 26 2011 20:16 GMT
#294
GM that makes a lot of sense. Who do you sugest to lynch? What's your opinion on zorkmid?
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
April 26 2011 20:31 GMT
#295
My lynch suggestions:

Eiii
Kenpachi
GGQ

all three of these are actively lurking and not contributing or trying to scumhunt, this is where I think mafia is trying to hide themselves, and even if we end up lynching a townie, it ends up encouraging more active posting from these people

as far as zorkmid goes, my opinion on him is neutral atm, I think he might be a little overwhelmed by the number of new names, and he has a decent number of posts compared to those three, so I'm willing to give him a day to slip up if he is scum.

My vote is already on Eiii, so I'm going to keep it on there for now.

Moderator
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
April 26 2011 21:20 GMT
#296
I could, in theory, run through the thread and try to squeeze some sort of meaning out of the 5-20 posts everyone has made so far but I don't think anyone'd be better off for it. I understand that discussion like that is overall a good thing, but at this point I don't feel I could come up with anything that doesn't make me look bad :/ This early game time is by far what I'm worst at at the moment-- without anything having actually *happened* yet I have a really hard time seeing anyone as scummy or innocent.

Of your list of three lurkers up there, GGQ is the most suspicious to me atm-- I remember him being fairly active in XXXVIII and very active in Insane 2, but so far he's made four posts, two of which have been about the rules/setup.
:3
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 26 2011 21:47 GMT
#297
On April 27 2011 05:03 GMarshal wrote:
Sorry Ace, but I think your analysis is faulty, I don't see Jackal as being scum atm. It could be my relative inexperience, or it might just be that we disagree on that, but I think that at the moment jackal is a terrible lynch, at the very least he is being vocal, which is much, much more than what we can say for many of the players in this thread.

I know I've said this many times before, but I think our best call today is to lynch a lurker, with a non-unifed mafia it also means they have no way of knowing if they are lynching a buddy, which makes it much less likely to be misdirected than the usual attempts at day 1 inactive lynches.


Ok then well for now we'll just agree to disagree.

I'm not sold on lynching lurkers yet. I feel as if we've got more than enough information in 15 pages to do some suitable scum hunting.

In a few hours I'll post my information. By then the people that haven't answered my questions probably won't.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
April 26 2011 21:51 GMT
#298
I'd be happy to answer your question, but like I said I don't really get how you even want me to approach it
:3
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 26 2011 21:53 GMT
#299
Just name 3 people you'd contact if you were Cell leader and the message you'd send them. Approach it any way you feel answers the question.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
April 26 2011 21:54 GMT
#300
I would like to suggest you post your info right now, so it can be relevant to the current lynch. If you post it in a few hours, it's gonna make no difference, at least for today. There was enough time already for anyone willing to answer your questions to have done so.
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