EPTInsane Mafia 2
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i promise a clone of emma watson, evanna lynch, bonnie wright, natalia tena, etc. in every bed. or, if you are so inclined, the same for clones of daniel radcliffe, rupert grint, alan rickman, gary oldman, etc. i promise vials of felix felicis to all who request them (except the reds). wolfsbane potions to all werewolves. your very own gringotts vault and front row tickets to the finals of the quidditch world cup. | ||
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vote for me | ||
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On March 24 2011 07:33 bumatlarge wrote: Maybe the real test is to see who doesn't have the balls to post, and the person who doesn't post the most gets modkilled. In other words, he who boasts his no post most, may get the roast, and become toast. Then you get sent to the coast of goatse. totes. | ||
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what | ||
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i am a townie with no abilities apparently (???), so give me something to do pl0x. | ||
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On March 24 2011 11:45 tnkted wrote: i get laid waaaaaay more often then you.  On March 24 2011 11:47 Jackal58 wrote: Pahlease bitch. I'm married. if you are married, then as he said, he gets laid waaaaaay more often than you. | ||
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we all have bad games. i have bad games. everyone has bad games. that said, if i am having a GOOD game, i completely fucking rape the opposition. there is probably just as much a chance that a mayor has a good game as a bad one, so let's give me the chance to have a good game this time and proceed to roll the fuck on the reds and blacks. i am just coming off of a good game and i feel the wheels still turning. | ||
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On March 24 2011 12:19 bumatlarge wrote: And what if you are having a good game as scum? Then you will fucking rape the opposition? I'm not liking the my odds  its ceteris parabis (from your POV) either way. 80% chance (it's 100% since i am a green, but from your POV) to mackmain on them hos? i mean as mayor its one of the most criticized positions in the game, so if i am a red it will really be obvious and you can take me down. but youll see i am not a red very easily, especially since i am in item game and we can confirm me + 3 others quickly in the game | ||
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of course it's 1/6 to give it to the black, but the benefit (no night kill) is irrel to them anyway since they are all bulletproof | ||
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On March 24 2011 12:53 bumatlarge wrote: 3) We have access to more then a circle. I won't disclose anymore until it's clear I am going to win. you lie. you only are given your alignment, not a role in PM until day 1 begins. grats on being caught in a lie. mayor needs to be killing bumatlarge with his kill. | ||
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you have been given ALIGNMENT pms, not role pms. | ||
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On March 24 2011 13:12 bumatlarge wrote: And annul, if I am not blue, then a real blue can come out and counter claim me. If there is a reason why he would not, then enlighten me. My alignment PM gave me more then my alignment. That is all I will say until I am mayor. could be that maybe the blues have powers with potential to get more than 1 red/black over the course of a game, that sacrificing one of their 4 to take out one of the 10 is a bad move to make? there are lots of reasons why none of the FOUR blues would step out against one of the ten possible red/blacks. also, your claim that alignment PMs contained more than just the alignment means that the mods have misled us already, which they should not be doing. ;\ is town's win condition to eliminate all red/black? | ||
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if you are a red, you want to take down the blacks. you know that a blue's interests are split between killing red and black. not ONLY red. if you are a red, the only night harm you have is from the blacks (other than vig etc). so you have an incentive to wait. if bum is a red, then a real blue knows that the blue team (as empowered greens, essentially) has 4 players to take down 10. A ONE FOR ONE TRADE IS A BAD TRADE FOR A BLUE IN A GAME WITH 10 "SCUM" AND 20 NONSCUM. bum knows this. the black team cant know if bum is red or blue here (if he isnt black) and the red team cant know if bum is black or blue (if he isnt red). the existence of the second scum team makes this entire logic very different than it would otherwise be. the fact one scum team is bulletproof also fucks with the logic. it is not so ironclad that a lack of a CC means bum is a blue. that is all i am arguing. i am also arguing that bum got an alignment PM and not a role PM, so his claim that there is "more to the cops except a PM circle" is very very very suspicious. further, this could be a play to draw medic help knowing he is a red/black and he might as well just steal a medic. who knows. many ways that bum can not be honest here. all of the above can be added to the fact that i have proven earlier the logic behind giving mayor to an item game player. item game players are already going to be the first kill targets at night. we need to have the chance to give us as good a chance to win item game as the black team has. tl;dr not counterclaiming bum, but the fact no CC exists doesnt mean he is a blue, and in fact it makes logical sense for there to not be a CC. also, vote an item game player mayor, even if not me. but vote me <3 | ||
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where do you normally play mafia? | ||
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so i went to town and was like "OH HEY i have a pocket DT who just checked me as hatter" etc. so i only came out once i saw i had the chance to control the game AFTER being DT checked. | ||
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On March 25 2011 04:55 Lanaia wrote: I've played a couple on mafiascum.net Otherwise I play with a bot on irc. where on IRC? have you ever played on efnet? | ||
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On March 25 2011 04:56 chaoser wrote: annul, you're thinking of it as 10 v 20 when really it's 6 v 4 v 20. Either side is going to be thinking of it's own interests and so red and black really have no desire to overstep their roles and try to take one for the team and fake claim and let it benefit the other team (red/black). it is 6 v 4 v 20, but the 4 is going to be focus firing the 20 (since they know that if more of the reds are alive, more chance for town to lynch THEM than the blacks, since town still needs to get rid of ALL of them, and red poses no danger to black at night). so in that sense, it is going to be 10 v 20 in most situations. to the 4, there is no difference between the 20 and the 6. it's 4 v 26 to them. and to the red, it's 6 v 24, since the 6 CANNOT kill the 4 at night anyway. | ||
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On March 25 2011 05:00 Tackster wrote: Annul - hasn't posted policy on d1 lynch - poor listing of abilities - claimed by several not to have good scumhunting rofl 1. my policy is "any item game player is better than current slate of candidates." given that, of course i am going to try to get the mayorship. my policy for determining lynch? kill who i think is black. 2. what abilities? nobody has any abilities yet. 3. [citation needed] | ||
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can ANYONE directly refute my logic i posted earlier about why giving the mayorship to an item game player is 200% better (for the long term) than otherwise? mayor's day 1 lynch ability is irrelevant. it really is. the BODYGUARDS are the most important aspect of the mayorship. since blacks are already night immune, giving mayor to a black player is going to be no net loss (other than the fact their day 1 kill obviously wont be one of their own). but give mayor to a green player IN ITEM GAME means a significantly better chance that town wins the item game, since now we have a chance that 1 green gets just as much night protection as the black player has. | ||
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On March 25 2011 07:26 chaoser wrote: @annul Why only say kill who you think is black and not who you think is red or black because black players can only die in the daytime, so in the item game, i want to take a swing at someone when i control the kill, so the town doesnt get misled and start voting to lynch people not in item game | ||
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or "obvious you set yourself up to appear as if you were blue" he may or may not be blue. do not assume he automagically is. | ||
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On March 25 2011 07:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So why not aim for reds either? It shouldn't make a difference to kill red/black if all you want to do is get people looking at the item game players. You would only worry about hitting blacks more than reds if you were expecting KP to kill the red, which could only come from a black, or vigi-shot. If you killed the black, they have no reason to really kill players in the item game, outside of if they wanted to help mafia/town. So this is either bad logic, or a mafia-slip. are you retarded? the ONLY WAY we win the item game is to use a DAY kill (mayor kill or normal lynch) on the black player in item game (assuming no nonstandard abilities). therefore, of course i am going to try to find the black player in item game if i am elected mayor. | ||
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On March 25 2011 07:58 GMarshal wrote: Wait, is this the sound of discussion dying out I hear? This is plainly unnaceptable, first of all FoS on all the players who have yet to post! I will be after your hides day 1, so be ready for it! Also even if it seems like Bum is the best vote I still want to see who people think he should lynch, for example annul seems to be very much against bum, do you people think this is because he is scum? or is he just a misguided townie? it is because i caught him lying earlier. he started his campaign with "the police force is more than just a PM circle, and that is all i can tell you." only alignment PMs were sent. no role PMs were sent. how would he know of any abilities? i mean i am looking at my alignment PM right now and pretty much all it says is "you're green; be patient." - implying more to come later. maybe this is different for me than everyone else because i am in item game and i have no normal abilities anyway, but i doubt it. | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:02 GGQ wrote: Wow, racism. Your political career is over. tell that to 49% of the electorate | ||
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what is the KP formula for the red team? | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:05 Rean wrote: and how do we know that with you we're not voting said black player to be our mayor? that'd be awful now wouldn't it? nominating the black player in item game doesn't LOSE us as much as we would GAIN by nominating a green in item game, if that makes sense. black already has nighttime immunity, which is what we are trying to get to green by nominating a green in item game. the bad situation would be to nominate the red in item game, actually. but since i am green and not red nor black, there isn't this problem <3 | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote: No need to resort to personal attacks, maybe this is just another case of you failing to read the OP. If you hadn't noticed, but in addition to one third party player, there is also One Mafia in the item game as well. So, it seems like a huge slip, when you say you want to try to kill the black player, and make no mention of the red player also playing in the item game. The ONLY WAY (As town) to win the item game, is to use a DAY kill, to kill BOTH the red and black player, (barring vigi's if they even exist). From my point of view, that looked like you're red, and you screwed up only mentioning gunning for the black player, who if you were red, would be immune to NK, and thus a huge threat. "The ONLY WAY (As town) to win the item game, is to use a DAY kill, to kill BOTH the red and black player, (barring vigi's if they even exist)." this is false. black can night kill the red in item game. it seems you do not actually run all permutations before you speak. | ||
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there's a 1:3 shot to get a red/black in the entire game as well. "having a confirmed blue mayor is better than giving it to someone in the item game with a 33% chance of that someone being red/black" 1. i disagree with this premise on its face; 2. bum is NOT CONFIRMED. the lack of a counterclaim does not "confirm" him as a blue. it is much better to have a protected player in item game to get a 4/6 better chance at SIX abilities than to protect someone who MIGHT be a blue and who might have ONE ability worth saving. i am thinking long term (as in, day 5 and beyond) and you are stuck in day 1. think big. this will be a very long game. | ||
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"- 66% shot of giving it to scum, and having said scum protected against blacks (if he turns out red)" no. its 33% to give to scum; 16.6% chance to give to the black player which changes NOTHING in terms of his ability to win item game. the worst-case scenario is to give mayor to the red in item game, since that means black's optimal strat (to night kill the red) cant work. therefore, since it's really only a 1/6 chance of making a bad decision (mayor to red in item game), 1/6 chance to not really affect anything (relative to item game), and 4/6 to completely negate black's inherent advantage and possibly win us SIX (!!!!!!!!) new abilities to use as a team... why are you resisting against this? | ||
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imagine this scenario: 1. hatter 2. multi-shot vig 3. mass medic 4. jack would any of these 4 give themselves up in a trade 1:1 to take out ONE scum? of course not. each strong empowered player needs to use their abilities to take out MULTIPLE scum. in this game, for all intents and purposes, it's 10 scum vs 20 nonscum. that is 33% scum when standard play is 20% scum. 1:1 trades are no good here. | ||
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this is true. HOWEVER, if that happens, consider this: town, town, town, mayor town, red. what is the red going to do? red is now DISINCENTIVIZED to kill item game town at night. there will come a time when it is mayor town vs red. then the red cant actually do anything about it. oh hey we fingered the red, hes dead, we win item game. the red is going to have an incentive to leave the town alone, forcing town to implode and their only chance is to try to get town to lynch the mayor OR buy more time so the reds can take out the bodyguards. in either scenario, it puts the ball back in our court instead of the instant win on day 5 that black has now without item game town mayorship "So why are you so worried about the black, but not the red?" read above. "and you still haven't explained why you don't mention killing the red who is present in the item game as well" am i seriously just not communicating well enough, or does he have reading problems? like honestly, who else does not understand what i am talking about? even if you disagree with the logic, at least everyone else understands my argument, right? | ||
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no, it actually is the antithesis of fairness, unless he treats EVERYBODY ELSE with the same gavel. | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:31 Rean wrote: Multi-shot vigilante can just shoot Bum upright? And what is a jack? jack = multiple abilities, choose one each day and multi shot vig may not want to waste the bullet, and if he comes out, he loses his chance to shoot in the future. try 2 hatters then. my point is there may be roles that can do much more good for the town than trading up 1:1 on day 1. | ||
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will ANYONE, a single person, in the entire game, challenge my MATHEMATICAL analysis of the item game and why it is beneficial to give mayorship to an item game player? i dont care if you think i am a scum, because my MATH is sound. if im scum, nominate someone else. an item game player needs to be mayor. | ||
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thank the heavens, someone else sees it. | ||
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are you just trolling or do you seriously think that its 50% chance for a "good" outcome in the actual game? | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:43 Coagulation wrote: this is exactly why i was urging everyone to vote jackal. the key to this game is the item game players. elect jackal you know, i have only been arguing this for like 20 hours by now. dont steal my thunder lol | ||
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if we can agree to this, now those of us IN ITEM GAME should be able to campaign without interference. if you think i am scum and want me to not get the mayorship, or if you think im just a bad who will waste the job, okay fine, dont vote for me. but at least frame it in that way. | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:50 GMarshal wrote: Can you seriously not see why bum is the person who should get the mayorship unless the mafia grows some balls and counterclaims? (or the blues if bum is mafia [doubtful]) yes, i seriously can not see why bum should get the mayorship. that's only been my entire case all day | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:53 deconduo wrote: No, that wasn't a serious analysis. I was merely pointing out that I too can pull figures from my ass and say the maths are sound if they add up. By electing a town mayor from the item game you do increase the chance of town winning it. That is obvious, but your other arguments are terrible. -Electing mafia as mayor essentially is an autoloss in that case -Electing a black is bad too. People are less inclined to lynch a mayor unless there is a lot more evidence against them, so it will increase his survivability. Finally, and this is the big bit, we give up having a 100% clear mayor with a circle behind him. argue directly against my math, then. don't try to skirt off with some flawed argument by analogy. tell me exactly how my math is wrong, not that it is possible to come up with wrong math. its quite possible. my math, however, is not wrong. "electing a red mayor in item game is an auto loss." it would be very bad, yes, but not an auto-loss. but that is a 1/6 chance to happen. giving mayor to the black would be bad but only insofar as its bad for green to not have it. black gains nothing, relative to item game powers, with mayorship. | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:00 deconduo wrote: Did you not read my post? Blacks DO gain with mayorship, as it makes them a bit more lynch proof simply because people are much less inclined to lynch the mayor. but this is in the hands of the town, something we can actually control. this argument is extremely tenuous. | ||
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if i am elected mayor, it would be suboptimal to kill the red in item game. i posted my math immediately when you challenged me originally, but YOU conveniently ignored that, too. if anything, it is you who looks quite suspicious at the moment. | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:01 GMarshal wrote: Ok, let me break it down for you then. Lets take our premise, bum is one of 4 things 1.) Insane Townie, 2.) A Blue, 3.) Third Party 4.) Mafia lets make Mafia and Third party one category as third party is pretty much like the mafia, except less interested in the mayorship, and lets eliminate one, becuase if thats the case I lose all respect for bum forever. So bum is either 1.) a Blue 2.) Lying scum with you up until this point. On March 25 2011 09:01 GMarshal wrote: Lets assume he is Blue, then thats great we just elected a mayor with a blue circle and with who knows what powers, we gained an advantage, even assuming the precense of a role blocker its still a pretty good deal. Lets assume he is red, then a blue WILL counterclaim (this is optimal play) we lynch one to figure out the alignment of the other, worst case, we lynch the blue and get a red tommorow, best case we have a confirmed blue for medic protects. If a red counterclaims then we get the same scenario as above. So essentialy we have a claimed mouthpeice for the blues, which we might have to sacrifice to kill scum if there is a counter claim. Do you see it now? Its just logic... if he is a blue, it is good that we elected a blue mayor, yes. but it would be BETTER if we elect a green in item game mayor. sure, if we cant get that, a blue mayor is a good thing. but with a 4/6 chance to get the green mayor in item game (and a 1/1 chance if you elect me!) then the chance to win SIX items is worth much much more to us than a blue mayor. if he is a red, the blue will not necessarily counterclaim, again, for reasons ive stated multiple times in the thread. just for you, ill do it a 17th time: sacrificing a blue for ONE scum is a horrible trade when its 10 scum 20 nonscum; furthermore, the blues may have abilities worth much more in the long term than one scum death. | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:09 Jackal58 wrote: I have a great desire to kill scum. Their color doesn't really matter to me atm. Your fixation is somewhat fascinating. blacks can only die to lynch/mayor kill reds can die to those PLUS black's KP. therefore, we should try to find the black since we have to be the ones to pull the trigger on him. | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:13 CubEdIn wrote: @ annul: Let's come to a conclusion here. It is good to pick a blue mayor. It is BETTER to pick a green mayor from item game. It is most horrible to pick a red mayor from item game. It is "just bad" to pick a black mayor from item game. So, you know, we have "better" against "horrible". Unless someone counter-claims, we have the blue. I don't want another game that ends in mass murder. So I'd rather NOT take the chance of picking that red, even if the odds are slim. this is true, but understand that without giving mayor to a green in item game, we are conceding item game outright. | ||
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i just think 1. bum may or may not be blue; and 2. to take the mathematical chance to win six items worth much more than one blue. | ||
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its strategic for the reds to not kill anybody in item game until the black player is dead. however, it's also strategic for the reds to not kill greens in item game once the black is dead (beyond 1 or 2 people in some situations). once its town + town + red, the red is not going to be killing towns (it forces the medic, which will make it smart for red to just go after non-IG players to get full use of KP). but if the black is alive, then this changes. both the red and the green want to kill the black in item game in the daytime ASAP. it is true once the black dies, all IG players are [relatively] safe. your scenario presumes a medic. why wouldnt medic be on bum tonight if a green IG mayor is elected? red is not going to hit IG players (its actually a net loss for them), only the black will be doing this. | ||
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the fact that you say this, in light of the conversation we are CURRENTLY having, removes all of your credibility. | ||
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i get to see what my item is in 80 minutes. i will be able to extrapolate from this what the power level of the rest of them can be. if its not worth it, we can give this up. | ||
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i say this not to attempt to persuade people i am green or even that anyone in particular is scum. just remember who is fighting this tooth and nail. | ||
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ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. ONE BLUE IS WORTH MORE TO THE TOWN THAN SACRIFICING HIMSELF TO GET RID OF ONE SCUM. | ||
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ive only been arguing this entire time that bum is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT confirmed. can he be blue? sure. is he CONFIRMED? of course not. | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:50 deconduo wrote: Another retarded argument. If bum is lying and a blue claims, how is that sacrificing himself? He will have someone to back him up, and won't get lynched. He will be elected mayor and his partner will have a medic protecting him. We get to lynch a scum day one and a blue mayor. If bum is telling the truth we have a blue mayor. ok let me indulge you. "I AM A BLUE*. BUM IS NOT BLUE. HE IS LYING." auto mayor please! * i'm not actually blue. | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:53 Tackster wrote: i KNOW i shouldn't go on but i think we may be close to a breakthrough here... Annul: Why isn't he confirmed? Give me a situation in which he isn't blue when: There are no ccs The blue players aren't afk Just answer that question PLEASE Stop answering it by telling me he IS blue and he is NOT confirmed and he COULD be blue. Just tell me the situation in which he isn't blue given the constraints we're assuming 4 hatters on blue. 4 medics on blue. 2 hatters 2 medics. whatever. pick one of many scenarios where the life of a blue is worth more than the life of ONE scum in a game with ten of them. | ||
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me: why u so dum? several on town: OMFG YOU MUST BE A SCUM | ||
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On March 25 2011 09:57 Tackster wrote: OH MY GOD... Can't have 4 blue hatters cos blues don't have KP.... Check the OP AGAIN And ONCE AGAIN: You haven't answered my question I asked explain how he isnt confirmed blue without ccs AGAIN you implied he IS blue i NEVER implied he IS blue. ever. please quote a single thing ive said the entire game where i implied that bum IS blue. "may be" blue is not the same as IS. | ||
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ly fuck ing shit. do you just simply refuse to recognize the potential for blues to be worth more than 1 scum death? notice how not a SINGLE PLAYER has argued against that point, despite bringing it up repeatedly. please, decon. counter that point directly. please. dont straw man, dont ad hominem. tell me, is it not possible that a blue's life is worth more than that of ONE scum? | ||
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On March 25 2011 10:00 Tackster wrote: Annul every time i ask you how is he NOT confirmed if he's uncced you give me an example in WHICH HE IS BLUE.... you still have yet to quote a single thing in which i said that bum IS blue. | ||
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thank you, that is what counts. it is POSSIBLE. therefore, bum is NOT confirmed. | ||
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On March 24 2011 12:53 bumatlarge wrote: 3) We have access to more then a circle. I won't disclose anymore until it's clear I am going to win. remember this? how does he know he has access to more than just a circle, if only alignment PMs went out? that is what started my attack on him to begin with. notice how he only came out AFTER trying to push this meme regarding counterclaims? | ||
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On March 25 2011 10:13 GMarshal wrote: In no way is he confirmed town, disagreeing with the majority and opposing a pro-town plan means nothing (check XXXVII for proof of that) FYI i STILL think your mini town circle plan was retarded and anti-town in 37. | ||
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but since only alignment PMs came out, it was a horrible slip that i pounced on | ||
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On March 25 2011 10:20 GMarshal wrote: So, if you had the lynch right now annul who would die? not sure. probably walrus. | ||
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1. why would you support jackal over me? what do you see about him that you do not see in me? if your arguments FOR yourself are strong, why even entertain jackal over myself? 2. you like my math re: item game and you concede giving mayor to a green in item game means an amazing chance to win item game. you counter this by essentially saying that as mayor, you are in the role to lead town in scumhunting, so you should give a veteran mayor (you). why cant you still lead town in scumhunting without the bodyguard protection? the "mayor" role is ceremonial at best; if you want to be scumhunt leader, go for it. i just want the protection, not the leader role. i want the bodyguards. nothing is preventing you from leading town in scumhunting without the bodyguards. you say you are not a power role, but roles have not been given out at all, which is why i challenged you earlier when you said that the blues are "more than just a PM circle." ... but lets roll with this. if you are not important to keep alive, then doesnt that kill a ton of the case my detractors have with why we should save you over an IG player? | ||
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every claim i had about item game? i retract it this item is horrible. winning 5 other items this bad wont do us shit. | ||
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if town wins item game, who "controls" the items? for example, if an item requires/allows a choice to be made at a given time, who makes this decision? assume its an item that was on a dead scum's body, unstolen. | ||
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what else would anyone be talking about on night 0 if not the mayoral elections? im sorry if you are too lazy to read 50 pages but thats on you, dont blame me for playing the game. this is why i play this way on early days: go big or go home. but you know what i DID do? i got fuuuucktons of people on the record in a huge, huge way in some cases. even if i didnt win the argument, my long term play won the day. but things change and i adapted. my play is fluid. i find it hilarious how kav, et al pretty much admit i am a town but they still want to get rid of me. warning sign much? we do not have many chances to take out the TEN scum in the game, you know. | ||
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i actually fully believe you are blue now. unrelated to your defense of me, too. i picked up on something subtle. my opposition is dropped. | ||
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i had at least 50% of the contribution prior to conceding when i saw how horrible the items were. i think my inability to convince players as town is not my fault, but more of the fault of most of TL, who fails to see math and/or logic. but alas. "A strong and good argument isn't one that you continue to bash over people's heads even thoguh they disagree. A strong and good argument is one that's can inherently be seen as good and agreed upon by at least a decent amount of people." ... a good argument has nothing to do with the number of people agreeing with it at any time. see: plessy v ferguson. 8-1 decision. and yet the lone dissent swayed the majority in brown v board decades later. "While some (including me) agree with some of your points, the few points that I agree with are drowned out by all the other spam and garbage that you've posted (not to be mean)." so you are willing to admit you agree with at least some of my arguments, but you are literally going to go ad hominem and try to use my METHODOLOGY for presenting the argument as a way to rationalize ignoring it? are you kidding? you literally just admitted to saying "he had points i liked, but lets kill him anyway." i swear the scum just come out so easily these days | ||
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chalk another one up to someone who does not understand math and game theory its okay, i cannot argue to people who don't even understand the chessboard upon which i place my moves. "and it almost feels like he was spamming intentionally" of course i was "spamming" intentionally. to you its spam, to me it's trying to prove my point, but it most definitely was intentional. i wont even get into your PBPA because honestly you wouldnt even understand my counter arguments anyway. but it looks a lot like confirmation bias to me. | ||
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On March 26 2011 06:18 tnkted wrote: and @annul: what are your thoughts on the IG players? i have many thoughts about IG players. i cant tell you what they are, though, because it will interfere with my strategy to win us item game. as long as bumatlarge is laying off of me, i am sure he will have no problems picking one of the other 5 to blow up tonight. depending on the flip tonight i can tell you more. | ||
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On March 26 2011 06:26 Rean wrote: Hmmm. It's probably in black's best interest to start killing off the item-game players as fast as possible, while the red's would want to take it easy there to prevent black taking the cake, since black is arguably the biggest threat to the red team at the moment. So with 1 night-kill a time, it comes down to some good analysis and a few lucky medic/dt's for town to walk away with the items. Out of the 6 players currently i've got a gut feeling that Annul is scum (my gut feeling for Annul is notoriously bad though >.>), and as for the second scum... I really don't have a clue, without access to some of the pm's going around it's hard to judge, so i think we're gonna need to rely on IG players to give us some solid analysis. I reckon it's best to DT check annul for now (miller claims will NOT be believed this time  ), medic the best analyzer in there and pray it doesn't all go to hell.rofl yeah rean, lets only say what i said 30 times yesterday... oh, and annul is scum. | ||
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i am dead tomorrow or earlier. don't waste a DT on me. DT somebody else in item game. | ||
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On March 26 2011 06:31 Rean wrote: first you want to be voted out day 2 at the earliest and now your fate is sealed? the fuck? i said to give me one night to live. if you want to vote me out day 2 then go for it. i am acting with the presumption that this is going to happen over any protest i have, so i need to play the game knowing this. | ||
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im very close. | ||
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if you want to DT me, go ahead. | ||
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On March 26 2011 07:15 Lemonwalrus wrote: just because I don't play like you play doesn't make me auto-scum. oh my god, its like we are twin spirits | ||
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On March 24 2011 10:57 tnkted wrote: he means getting into the irc without the mafia knowing, and easedropping on their conversation. I've done it before, although not for this ste; once you're in and they're talking and you don't realize it, you can just sit back and twiddle your thumbs until victory. Peace of cake! HI TNKTED <3 | ||
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On March 26 2011 12:33 Lanaia wrote: What if his PM was worded differently from yours because he is in item game and you are not? im in item game and i see his breadcrumb. | ||
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On March 26 2011 12:46 tnkted wrote: And yeah, annul is clear. On March 26 2011 12:46 tnkted wrote: And yeah, annul is clear. On March 26 2011 12:46 tnkted wrote: And yeah, annul is clear. On March 26 2011 12:46 tnkted wrote: And yeah, annul is clear. On March 26 2011 12:46 tnkted wrote: And yeah, annul is clear. On March 26 2011 12:46 tnkted wrote: And yeah, annul is clear. just making sure everyone sees this part | ||
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On March 26 2011 13:09 bumatlarge wrote: Clearly that is not popcorn in that bucket, it is really + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://ninecooks.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/breadcrumbs.jpg) http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=csi&play=true | ||
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On March 26 2011 13:31 Jackal58 wrote: I'm sticking to where I put my dick out at. ... what? | ||
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On March 26 2011 13:44 tnkted wrote: I consider ... lemonwalrus, to be clean because of this plan, but I might be biased because I came up with it. lemon confirmed? where? | ||
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On March 26 2011 13:47 Lemonwalrus wrote: I think jackal is drunk this pleases me gun toting drunk guy pew-pewing scum without giving a single shit about his own well being. This will be entertainment of the highest caliber. http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=csi&play=true | ||
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i never told jackal i thought tackster was a red or black either. | ||
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maybe you want to reply to my PMs and maybe then you will get the strategic play you seek ;( | ||
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On March 26 2011 15:46 Tackster wrote: As far as the IG game goes I personally think all the greens should all agree to Defend until it goes to lower numbers. That way even if the scum only pretend to agree and use their items we might: A) See what their items do B) We could maybe work out who the scum is based on the effects of the items C) Prevent scum from stealing any green items as i told you before, i fully intend to steal tonight. | ||
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On March 26 2011 20:06 deconduo wrote: Annul has said he has no read on Tack. i never said i had no read on him i said i did not tell jackal my read. big difference. | ||
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in order of scumminess, i have: jackal + tackster tied for level of scum darmo. myself (obviously), lemon, and coag are good people. i also do not suspect darm nearly as much as the other two. if you need my reasons, let me know. but i don't think you do. | ||
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On March 27 2011 03:07 Tackster wrote: LOL annul I definitely want reasons - list them please if bum wants them, i shall give them. | ||
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^^^ are all things bum said/implied. | ||
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On March 27 2011 03:56 Tackster wrote: There is nothing going on in the IG at the moment that is obscured from the main game. this is 100% false don't act like you know who i am in PM chat with. that's the entire point of PM chat: you DON'T know. i have my reasons for FOSing you and jackal. if bum needs them, i will tell him. | ||
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On March 26 2011 16:20 bumatlarge wrote: Since people in the IG have kept quiet about most things, I'll trust them just saying who is scum. so, he probably doesn't need my reasoning. | ||
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Jackal: Trust me, I am pro Annul: Ok" would never happen | ||
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On March 27 2011 04:34 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So, this is a bit different. While Black will no longer have any interest in winning the items, they may still wish to shoot into the game to kill the assured red. (Not sure how likely this is) this wont happen. black's win condition is to outnumber nonblack. they want to prolong item game as much as possible. they want teams to be reasonably balanced (as opposed to more imbalanced due to controlling 6 items) for as long as possible. | ||
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cool, i agree, and this is what i have been saying from the get go. as for what to do in the future, let's see what the flip is | ||
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but other than that, since i think they are both scum, tackster is probably much more dangerous, since he appears to be intelligent enough to get out of kills. do we want another pandain? consider this when you consider where my "vote" stands. | ||
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ignore the post where i say to let jackal live for possible BCing. they both BCed something that doesnt mean anything | ||
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i did no such thing if you can show me that you responded to the ALIGNMENT PM breadcrumb, the one sent at the start of night 0, not the start of day 1, then that is what i want. otherwise, no. | ||
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darm is the wrong target. darm and i have PM chains and i read him as a lot lot LOT more town than both jackal or tack. | ||
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@bumatlarge: IF YOU DECIDE to take me out, like, if for some reason you come to the awfully wrong decision to kill me today, give me a few minutes of warning first, so i can reveal everything. | ||
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wtf | ||
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The item game is a game within a game, so you can play both. Keep in mind, if you sign up for the item game, you will get no other role. Basically I'm giving people the opportunity to pick their roles right now if they want to play the item game" | ||
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he cited a PM that everyone got, not only town. | ||
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we cant read the OP and the FAQ with the assumption that blatant, mod-confirmed information is a lie. | ||
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so i guess we should all play with the assumption traitors will exist too at some point. | ||
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if its me, you should tell me, so i can reveal my hand. | ||
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hes dead. he had his goodbye post. now he is reacting to coag's moves in the game while dead and trying to influence them. | ||
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me: whos red whos black? darmo: i'm not sure, any ideas? darmo: i think that LSB is probably biased and gave coagulation a role. He isn't as spammy as normal. Probably is scum or black. ******************************* darmo: Any interest in trading items? Can we even do that? me: what is your item? we can "trade" insofar as we both steal tonight. darmo: I have a role check item. I would really like to use it to examine people the item game, but i'm afraid of it getting stolen. me: well you cannot use it AND trade it in the same night. and if you use it, you are liable to get it stolen. so what will you do? darmo: I don't know what i'm going to do. I'm actually thinking about determining the optimal strategy using game theory. We just need to steal the items from the black and red and then we win the item game so it might not be too hard. I'm thinking about just trying to steal from someone. me: thats not true fyi. we win item game when red and black are dead, not when we control 6 items. if i have all 6 items and its me vs the black, and the black night kills me, he gets all 6 items. darmo: that means we will be high priority night kills. Maybe it would be better to use my ability before I die, any suggestions on whom i should inspect? me: somebody in item game for sure. not me, as i am green. you have a 1/4 chance to peg the black and 1/4 chance to get the red. darmo: Whats your item if you don't mind me asking? me: a piece of food. darmo: lol! Does it do anything? me: [redacted] darmo: So I just read that if you try use your item, but someone else steals, then your item won't work, so I think optimally we should try to steal other people's items since it is unlikely we will be able to use the item. I think if you have two items then it should be good. Tonight I will try to steal an item from coag. (just based off hunches), want to try to steal from someone? me: i intend to steal tonight, yes. darmo: stealing from the same person would be bad. Don't steal from coag since I will be stealing from him. If you plan on stealing mine (which is actually a good item), then if you use it use it on someone from the item game. me: i wont be stealing from you. i would rather the DT item continue to exist in the game, to give town the best chance to have it and use it at some point in item game. i know i am dead tomorrow more likely than not. i will steal from who i think is black. ( annul's after the fact note: [[[[[[[[[ )darmo: Who do you think is black? me: i am still working on that. im sure i will know more tonight when all my PM chains come online and active. and if i am not mayorkilled. darmo: Any more information from the other players? Jackal sent me 1 message and i responded, but he hasn't said anything. ************************************* Original Message From darmousseh: I'm pretty sure jackal58 is scum. He is reacting almost the exact same way in the mini mafia puzzle game when we discovered clues about him which is post a ton of stuff trying to defend minor issues rather than the overall issues. He think that as scum, if he can defend himself on every single issue, then he might be able to convince people that he's not scum. In games when he isn't scum, he actually does something more along the lines of pointing out who he thinks is scum and ignoring the posting about him. Mini Mafia V is the game we discovered he was scum based off clues, look at his reaction to that discovery. | ||
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On March 27 2011 11:44 Lanaia wrote: Annul, is there a reason you think you'll die tonight? not anymore. i did then. | ||
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the black wants to prolong IG. so we are all safe tonight. | ||
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if so, i need to dump info quickly | ||
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sending me an AIM message with a :-) after posting that is a great implication that you actually are night vig and that i am dead, since the only way you can communicate with me in a legal way is if i am dead. | ||
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On March 27 2011 15:29 annul wrote: are you actually public night vig? if so, i need to dump info quickly | ||
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my item is hot potato. 25% chance to blow up myself and anyone visiting me at night. i have the option to detonate it early, killing myself and any night visitors. since night vig probably resolves before the end of night, you're probably safe. but if not, then congratulations, you are dead. incoming all item game PMs. | ||
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Original Message From annul: because hes new? Hide nested quote - Original Message From Jackal58: Lemonwalrus. Original Message From annul: "he" being? Original Message From Jackal58: I'm pretty sure he's town. Original Message From annul: darm was temp'd for half of this cycle, so thats his excuse tackster i agree with you about. but i think walrus goes first. Original Message From Jackal58: I have. If it wasn't his first game I'd be inclined to believe it. Tackster and darms lack of posts stand out more to me. I won't steal from him tonight. Whatever he has is yours if you can get it. Original Message From annul: read his game posts lol it should be obvious Original Message From Jackal58: Why Walrus? Original Message From annul: walrus is probably one of the two scum. i havent figured out who the other one is yet. im probably going to steal walrus' item tonight. if you go to steal, take from someone else, so we dont have to RNG it. Original Message From Jackal58: Alright so who do you see as the red and the black? And more importantly how do we approach it? | ||
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Also if your item is quite nice and you're trying to play it down you're overdoing it a bit. If not then someone will think that and take a shit item from you which is good. So judge your posts based on that. Original Message From annul: okay. i cannot confirm anyone since i have no actual power and a useless item, but if you manage to confirm me, then i guess that's good. do you have something that would work in synergy with food? if so i wont defend tonight and you can take it, i guess. Hide nested quote - Original Message From Tackster: Ok annul - i know we've had our differences but hear me out. I understand that as we're both in the mini-game PMs are allowed. I am claiming green to you and if at any point you confirm that ask me if i've confirmed you yet. I feel that even though we've argued in the main forum if it turns out we're both green and we both know it we can use it to our advantage. Given our differences it also may put other alignments off thinking we've worked together. As I mentioned before you seem more town sided than mafia sided to me but i will not be willing to work with you before I can somehow confirm that. So long as we both confirm it however we may be able to pull some strong winning off. Keep this in mind for the future. | ||
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Now the fact that Coagulation is soooo set to lynch me gives me vibes of an extremist (ie. either extremely pro-town or extremely anti-town). When that happens I usually ignore the FOS and instead consider previous posts and if they side with an alignment then i feel the wagon is tipped. Currently as im told he is being less 'random' then he has been that makes him seem towny to me. However Lemon is posting complete fluff and filler and is FOSsing me in the most sheepy way possible. So I feel strongly that his vibe should be considered scummy. lastly darmo posts too little to have a read on him. I think it's important he talks more. As far as you go I'm still holding out on judgement but I appreciate the fact that you haven't automatically decided i'm scum. Back to you *throws PM in the wind* Original Message From annul: okay. btw jackal PMed you because i PMed him the same question first. i PMed everyone with that question. he probably thought it was a good idea Hide nested quote - Original Message From Tackster: Sorry i got them confused - i meant Jackal... They seem to have similar game play though Original Message From annul: you know that "ROL" is rebirthoflegend, not jackal58, right? is REBIRTHOFLEGEND messaging you? Original Message From Tackster: No one has said anything about their abilities. RoL is now telling me he wants to kill me and if i slip green he is 'sure' that darmo and you are mafia.... From: Jackal58 [ 944 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:21 If you're green Darm and annul are scum. It's not a bad thing to die for 2 scum. Original Message From annul: lemon sent me one PM and thats about it darmo had a few back and forths with no real outcome but i am greatly concerned that ROL PMed you. what is his ability? Original Message From Tackster: He PMd me at 05:33 am KST I was surprised to get the same PM from both of you guys but as red/black probs won't team up I let that go... Anyway apparently people are deciding im scum and I dont see any basis for it. I think that people who are strong to FOS will probably be scum. I refuse to OMGUS Jackal and I understand he's supposed to be a good scumhunter. Do you know his meta and is he likely to form a plan and insist everyone follow it? I havent really spoken to anyone except you and jackal. Have lemon and darmo been active with you? Original Message From annul: when did ROL PM you? i got no PM from him. Original Message From Tackster: Got the same PM from RoL... Did he PM you/you PM him? Red/Black can't be in cahoots so... Original Message From annul: whos red whos black? | ||
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Ideally, tack is red, jackal's plan will deal with him, and boom, whichever ones of us survive the night are confirmed town and we won the item game. But I don't like to rely on the best case scenario. If tack, when he dies, flips green, I think jackal (or possibly coag, but I really really don't think so) is mafia. So basically, I think you and I need to form a bond to deal with that eventuality. I gather from the thread that you have your suspicions about jackal, and was wondering if you might share them with me. We are close to winning this, but the reds have a crap ton of firepower and if they go for item game players tonight (I think they will, it is what I would do if I were a red and I was calling the shots) then it might end up being one red vs two or even just one green tomorrow, and if I'm one of those greens I want to be armed to the teeth with info on who the scum is. Also, I know you suspect me, and will probably hold back or something, and that is fine, but the way I see it we've got 24 hours to win this item game for town. Original Message From annul: yeah i suspect tackster what of you? Hide nested quote - Original Message From Lemonwalrus: The only thing I can tell you at this point is that I am neither of those things. However I just got back from being afk for about 16 hours so I have 4 or 5 pages to catch up on, I'll get back to you if I get any hunches. How about you, you got any suspicions at this point? (If you have openly announced them in the thread in the last 16 hours I'll be reading them shortly so don't worry about telling me anything you've already said.) Original Message From annul: whos red whos black? | ||
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Original Message From annul: explain Hide nested quote - Original Message From Coagulation: its not a lie Original Message From annul: seriously wtf are you doing | ||
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gl town | ||
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cheating. | ||
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cheated. simple. that is what you did. you cheated. i do not care what color you are or what color i am, i do not appreciate cheating in any game. it ruins the entire game. and on top of cheating, you have the gall to call me "little retard" and be a general nuisance. fuck off. LSB: please replace me with barundar, or blow my potato up, either way, i am done playing this game. | ||
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everybody in this game pretty much sucks <3. | ||
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