Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
LastArgument
Because this guy is mafia. First take a look at his voting; starting with day 1 he has voted for ICanFlyLow, LSB, JBright. While certainly not conclusive, he has failed to vote for both mafia this game (and possibly he hasn't voted for ANY mafia this game if LSB and JBright are town). This doesn't say much in itself because other members of the town have the same thing going for them (hi chaoser!).
Let's look at his posts this game; so far he has made a total of 13. That's so few I could post them all in here and my post still won't be ridiculously long. 7 of those posts are one liners or a restatement of what he posted earlier, so in reality there's only 6 posts he can take credit for.
Of these 6 posts, take a look at the first one he made that was more than 2 sentences:
On February 23 2011 15:46 LastArgument wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote:
with 30, i doubt there are 8
5-6 is much more likely, with 6 being more likely, unless they start with roles (which I doubt)
due to the mechanics
5 with an SK I would believe would be balanced as well, but i'm seeing 6 and 2.5-3kp, or something like "you may not kill 3 people" as 3 kp is a bit much right now
we will learn soon enough. It is also possible they get to pick to be permanent, or nightly. I'm not quite sure on the mechanic. Lets assume it is permanent, and they pick a GF and a role reverser
they'd still have 1.5kp which would round up to 2 afaik
The best thing to do is to not come out if you're a hatter, for sure
If you're a cop, I wouldn't come out unless you have a guilty, or are pressured
I wouldn't ever claim as medic, unless someone you protected and saved is up for lynch
Veteran is OK to claim, many setups have bulletproofs claiming first
Vigilante is OK to claim TOMORROW if you claim who you are going to kill - Don't claim today, as you can't kill tonight As you asked what I found troublesome about this post. as per the town guide found http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188179You did what would be as general talking. Rather than being specific with the use of the roles you mention you instead mention generalities. It also a post that lacks emphasis on the fundamental skill in which it has been suggested towns need to play by which is behavioural analysis. This and factoring in your earlier claim makes it seem fairly odd no?
Obviously he was trying to analyze one of gryffindor's posts. This guy knows something about mafia as he has read the town guide, and is able to make an objective analysis on something gryffindor wrote. His next post follows up after gryffindor responds:
On February 23 2011 15:57 LastArgument wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 15:50 gryffindor wrote:On February 23 2011 15:46 LastArgument wrote:On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote:
with 30, i doubt there are 8
5-6 is much more likely, with 6 being more likely, unless they start with roles (which I doubt)
due to the mechanics
5 with an SK I would believe would be balanced as well, but i'm seeing 6 and 2.5-3kp, or something like "you may not kill 3 people" as 3 kp is a bit much right now
we will learn soon enough. It is also possible they get to pick to be permanent, or nightly. I'm not quite sure on the mechanic. Lets assume it is permanent, and they pick a GF and a role reverser
they'd still have 1.5kp which would round up to 2 afaik
The best thing to do is to not come out if you're a hatter, for sure
If you're a cop, I wouldn't come out unless you have a guilty, or are pressured
I wouldn't ever claim as medic, unless someone you protected and saved is up for lynch
Veteran is OK to claim, many setups have bulletproofs claiming first
Vigilante is OK to claim TOMORROW if you claim who you are going to kill - Don't claim today, as you can't kill tonight As you asked what I found troublesome about this post. as per the town guide found http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188179You did what would be as general talking. Rather than being specific with the use of the roles you mention you instead mention generalities. It also a post that lacks emphasis on the fundamental skill in which it has been suggested towns need to play by which is behavioural analysis. This and factoring in your earlier claim makes it seem fairly odd no? Not at all. I felt the need to come in and give a good general way to play as each role for us. People who focus on really weird plans are generally scum. See the plan for the ninjas in XXX which was proposed by the Mafia Godfather. It was very similar to what GMarshal did. I don't consider myself having "generally talked" there whatsoever. I was discussing the setup, with what was possible, and coaching more inexperienced players on what works for town, which is generally lacking overall in terms of sense here in teamliquid (except for good players like Foolishness who *always* get hit N1) Have you noticed, how, in my next posts, I list town and scum reads? Is that not behavioral analysis? Am I not currently voting, and, btw, thanks for responding to my QUESTION of you... which is another way to scumhunt... asking questions... sheesh you're joking, right? In your following posts after the one I quoted you only center on GM for a possible red, who is following suggestions found in the link I provided. I also glanced through your posts and you so far have only insinuated that GM as well as mrwiggles. Your list of "reads" is responding to foolishness, but is also a summary of information found in multiple spots within the mafia forum. Most of it is all spoken generalities, rather than specifics. I know I am not very experienced and running purely on what I have read from threads here but based on that it all seems off.
Deep reading between the lines shows a mafia player in disguise. He has emphasized his noobiness, "I am not very experienced", and has cast doubt upon gryffindor without taking a firm stance. When I read this post and the one above it, it seems like LastArgument has stumbled across something suspicious that gryffindor did, yet he fails to push it in the thread and just brush it off.
You would have to try pretty hard to convince me this guy is a bored townie. He clearly cares about the game and is trying, but so far hasn't cnotributed to the town in any way.
On February 25 2011 04:59 LastArgument wrote:
I will be voting Icanflylow until a more suitable target can be brought up. As of now there is too much on either side of the fence to lynch one of gm/annul/chaoser/ice whereas icanflylow has posted once in the thread jumping on a bandwagon and not providing real input into the game. This vote may change depending on arguments brought forward, however 1 post to poorly justify ones vote on a bandwagon seems far to scum like to ignore at this moment.
If he has been active in pm's someone let me know so that my view of him may be changed, but as of right now he seems the least contributing member of the game.
##vote icanflylow
Cool, he casts doubt upon gryffindor and votes for some random inactive. Yes it's not conclusive but interesting. It's also a little hilarious because he votes on the basis that ICanFlyLow is the least contributing member when he himself is has not contributed anything except "Hey gryffindor this thing you did here might be suspicious according to the guide but I'm inexperienced so who knows, please don't notice me"
0 posts in the next 3 days for him (real time days, as in 72 hours). Then he comes out with a whopper!
On February 28 2011 04:42 LastArgument wrote:I have spent some time trying to organize my thoughts and here is some of what I have thought on. First off two players stand out more than others to me. Icanflylow(now bumatlarge) and LSB. I know LSB has been analyzed by barundar. There is however one post that strikes me as particularly useless made by LSB that should be used as a reason for an obvious lynch. Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 04:26 LSB wrote:
There are three goals for night kills
1) Take out good players
2) Take out blues
3) Take out active players.
Generally TL mafia shoots down all active players until the town kills itself with inactivity.
Now, we can devide the people into 4 groups
Btw, I define bus as mafia started lynch.
Priority 1: Automatic night 1 snipes if possible
These players are proven scumhunters
LSB
Foolishness
Priority 2: Active vets
These player have quiet a few games under their belt and are pretty active
Barundar
CubEdIn
darmousseh
GMarshal
Beneather
seRapH
kitaman27
Mr. Wiggles
chaoser
LunarDestiny
deconduo
why
Priority 3: Kill if you think they are blue
These players are generally inactive, or easily to bus
Coagulation
Jackal58
Kenpachi
annul
gryffindor
ohN
Uncatagorized: Newish people, sort them into the three groups as they start playing
icemac
OriginalName
JBright
astroorion
Gofarman
MaxwellE
Conversion
kevconsim
ICanFlyLow
Ser Aspi
LastArgument
Please note, this isn't really indicative of skill. Someone like Jackal58 who is good at finding scum is increadibly easy to bus. On the other hand, people like DocH and Pandain (they aren't playing) are active, but aren't really good at finding scum.
And this is all subjective some names I don't recognize, and I made it off of what I remember. Especially Priority 1 This post ranks players in three catagories. 1 being the “top players” 2 being ones who have experience or shown to have it 3 being people who have less experience than 2 4 being new players. However, if you start reading the post more carefully, you will realize it’s a post indicating how the mafia “should” hit people to avoid off the radar. Now, a mafia reading this post now knows how to properly divide hits to maximize the team from dying. It doesn’t directly say how we should be saving those people, or how to analyze them. (note: he makes a short post on “how to use this list” right after but essentially says its useless till day 4-5). This list didn’t provide people who should be dt checked, it didn’t provide a list of who should be medic protected. It instead provided a long post that doesn’t help the town as much as it helps mafia. Why make a post as town that shows activity but barely helps the town at all? This could be a lack of experience on my part, but it surprises me this post was made without further detailing or breaking down of how the town can use the information aside from “bide and wait till people die to pin the reds” Bumatlarge Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 10:29 bumatlarge wrote:
Well I read into the whole annul thing, and it doesn't seem to be an organized bus. Especially with that little squirming performance, but then dropping it quickly in a manner I'd expect from him as scum. I didn't find much to point out on who was leading the accusations, but it does give me a nice ladelful of confidence for the town. Deconduo is not scum I feel, and mostly everyone behind it is likely not. GMarshal is a bit tricky because he seems a little too apologetic, but I've only played with him as town, and he would tend to get apologetic when he isn't inquisitive. Maybe he's just more confident?
Anyway, I think annul is probably the better catches for town to get early. I think town would be better served in pressuring the more reserved since that roster seems fairly slim in this game. I like icemac as a lynch target, and others like him that don't quite cut the bill. They are much easier to tell apart then good townie players that keep their mouths in check but speak when it is right, such as ohn.
LSB is silly. This is his second post in the game, he clears one player of suspicion, FoS two players, one of which is responsible for the most pro town idea this game. It isn’t much to go on, but based on all the pages the thread has, the only thing he was able to comment on was the annul lynch? And do generalization FoS on players without anything solid? Seems off to me.
Best post he has written all game, but the attitude is weird. He points out a few good things in regards to the LSB list, saying that the list is in essence useless to the town and more useful to the mafia (which is easy for him to point out if he is mafia).
But again he references his noobiness "This could be lack of experience on my part". The paragraph he writes about bumatlarge is also pretty bad. He says "but based on all the pages the thread has, the only thing he was able to comment on was the annul lynch?" Yet he himself as hardly contributed anything as well, as by this time he's only made 6 posts. Notice the non commital attitude in the bottom part of his post. He seems to think bumatlarge is suspicious (which he for sure was at this point in the game) and all he says is "Seems off to me" when he could have easily voted or said something like, "we need to pressure this chump now!". (Turns out he votes for LSB next post.)
Look, Bumatlarge didn't even respond to this post because he didn't need to! That's what the mafia want to do, try to make it look like they are pressuring someone when they aren't. If he made this post against you, would you sit down and write a reply to it? I sure wouldn't because he's not threatening at all. You can safely ignore him and nobody will notice. Good job blending in!
Even after this is only posts were one liners or a restatement of his argument against LSB. It is quite convenient that he comes in right before day ends and votes for JBright.
On March 03 2011 08:57 LastArgument wrote:
I'm heading out for a bit and just got home from work and should be back before voting. However, until then.
##vote Jbright
Ridiculously convenient if you ask me; this seems like an attempt to save his mafia buddy Seraph. (This was his last post in the game up until the writing of this). You might say that this doesn't mean anything because JBright is probably mafia as well. However Seraph is probably more valuable to the mafia than JBright (assuming JBright is mafia), which makes sense because Seraph has more experience, and is more active than JBright.
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It seems to me that we shouldn't kill JBright, as he is probably a townie. This might seem like a radical thing for me to say at first, because if JBright was town why didn't he die last night? The vote was pretty close at days end, surely the mafia could have gotten him killed right? No. The fact that a mafia died day 1 shows that the mafia have very little pressence in the thread (I discussed this in a previous post). If the mafia couldn't save annul on day 1 they wouldn't have been able to yesterday when it was much harder than day 1.
LastArgument has not done anything that benefits the town (besides pointing out LSB's list thing I guess). Furthermore, it is clear that he is not a bored townie. He read the town guide and was trying to use it early game. He clearly has had suspicions against people and is able to point out what was wrong with LSB's list. He is for sure playing the game, just not in the thread, he's playing it on the mafia forum.
LastArgument
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EPT
