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On January 22 2011 12:52 Hesmyrr wrote:
My case against him was:
1. Bandwagon vote that specifically states that he is bandwagoning (that's why I went for you in that game you were scum too).
2. Indirectly derailing discussion.
3. Not yet to offer opinions on anyone else.
4. Self-vote.
What is yours? Since I'm afraid of tie my vote is unfortunately frozen for moment til someone else joins in, I'd appreciate it if you quickly provide your arguments against LSB too.
1.Bad logic, which wouldn't normally be bad but he's not new at all
2.Contradictory statements
Not a great amount, but considering day 1 I think it's decent amount to lynch LSB.
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frick your right.
The point I'm trying to make though is LSB is NOT a village idiot, he knows better than this.
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make a choice fast.
we can't have a tie
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Fadoodle
##Unvote LSB
##Vote Shockkey
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On January 23 2011 00:46 LSB wrote:
As per what BC suggested, lets start working on Night Actions.
We should keep the Medic Protect List as small as possible, maybe 2-3 people so the mafia won't be tempted to shoot inside it.
On the other hand, the DT check list can be pretty large. But it should be used as a way that people can make FOS
Medic Protect List
Hesmyrr- He has no real suspicion on him, making him an attractive target
DT Check Lists
Pandain
Barunder- weird vote switching
GGQ
While Hesmyrr is a good choice for medic protection, having only one possibility for medics to protect is a very bad idea. Medic, you should RNG between Hesmyrr and another person you think is blue/going to get hit.
As for the DT check list, here's my list:
Barundar-I agree, that vote switch did catch my attention. Something about him just isn't right. However, he has been performing analysis, but his playstyle has been off(for example, doesn't post as much.)
LSB Has been playing suspiciously
Jackal This guy really catches my eyes. Either he is just showing how he's new, or he's mafia. It's somewhat consistent with the previous game so that helps him a little, but as of now i think he's a good check.
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And I changed my vote so we didn't have a tie.
Note if I was mafia, then if I had not done so, there would'be been no lynch.
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Okay sorry for not posting. I wanted to see a couple things beforehand.
First off, this is very bad for town. From now on we need to get every lynch right unless there is a medic protection/they hit a vet.
In defense of myself, there are a plethora of reasons which show I am not mafia:
1.LSB died-why would, if I'm mafia, I shoot him. It would only bring suspicion upon myself
2.Why would I be frantically changing between two townies. Why not just stick with one?
Furthormore, we need to band together and this next vote. Since its 5 v3, if even 1 other person sides with who the mafia want to get lynched, then its going to at least be a tie, which is not good for us.
My top suspect is Nemesis. Note how he hasn't been contributing at all this day, when its so important. Yet in previous games when he's town he contributes a lot, making analysis and the such. Along with going for the "easy lynch" in Shockkey, he's hardly contributed to the game. He's a classic "contributing without really contributing".
##Vote Nemesis
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##Vote Nemesis
and Gmarshal, for the love of god its Pandain, not Panadian.
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Why I believe Nemesis is mafia.
Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by.
I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet.
An analysis of his posts this game
+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I don't like this post. I'm going to be a little lenient since it's a somewhat confusing concept, but again, we don't want to lynch inactives. We want to lynch lurkers. Every person we lynch who's "inactive." is not going to be mafia. On January 20 2011 22:30 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2011 22:24 Jackal58 wrote:On January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. I would argue that lynching the most active players on day 1 is a mistake. Unless of course active player A states "I am scum" which probably isn't going to happen. Duh, of course lynching the most active player day 1 is not the best idea ever (I suggested lynching inactives), but I am saying that we shouldn't be afraid to lynch active players. We shouldn't focus too much on what blues should do. We don't know what blue roles there are and blues will do what they think is best anyways. We should just focus more on scumhunting than whatever blue plans. Okay, focus on scum hunting. However, Nemesis hasn't scum hunted or helped with blues. On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. Explains himself, but the main problem about this post is his vote. Votes with a one line answer, going for the easy lynch. On January 21 2011 10:53 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 06:11 Nemesis wrote:On January 21 2011 01:47 Pandain wrote:Hello everyone its Pandain the Panda, hoping he won't ruin town again for everyone. And as Pandain always learned when young, the best way to get from A to B when theres a brick wall in front of you is to not go around the wall, but keep on running into it until it breaks! In other news, just some general thoughts: 1.Blue's dont claim unless you are about to be lynched. If you find a red, don't claim. Instead prepare an analysis on him and get him lynched without claiming. If you find green, and they're about to be lynched, express support for him, but don't claim unless its near lylo. 2.I agree we should not let inactives survive in this town. But considering we've hardly started, "inactives" is hardly the word to call them. So let's get things moving. ##Vote NemesisOn January 20 2011 22:08 Nemesis wrote:
@Jackal I wouldn't say that lynching actives is a big mistake. I wasn't paying attention to what happened in XXXVI, but we should lynch scum, and mafia is not always inactive.
And I guess back to the usual first day topic. Lynching inactives. Since lynching a scum is very hard in the very first day. Lynching inactives would be a very good start as it would prevent mafia from lurking.
I'm going to wait a bit for people to talk since the game has just started. What is this? Clarify this for me, because as I understand right now you just said we should lynch scum, and then say we should lynch inactives. Plus I want to see more contribution. Come on people, pressure is pointless if only one person votes. Let's get things moving. Yes, I did say that we should lynch scum, but day 1, it is very hard to actually lynch scum because we don't have a lot of information available to us. Which is why I suggested that we should lynch inactives for the first day. As it has been said before, inactivity is a big problem which we do not want to see in this game. Lynching inactive first day encourages people to participate more in the discussion and be more active which makes it is easier to find mafia, as the more discussion we have as there is more information available to analyze. ##Vote ShockeyyI haven't seen you post anything useful at all so far other than excuses for being inactive and useless one-liners. I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it. First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do. When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored. You are just arguing semantics here. Besides, you can't exactly tell a lurker from an inactive unless they make it obvious.If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond. IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond. Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post. If they don't respond, that does not necessarily mean that they are bored townies. Just take a look at TMM3. Subversion(he was red that game) claimed he was roleblocked, and then disappeared afterwards. There were plenty of FoS on him after that, and he was up for lynch next day, but he still didn't respond. It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference between a lurker and an inactive townie.Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill. There was pretty much nothing else that people were discussing about. I gave my opinion on what we were currently talking about. What else could I have added to the discussion? It is not like anyone else was trying to generate new topic. At least I was trying to further the discussion.
I just woke up, I was still half-asleep when I checked this forum. I rather dislike it when town loses because everyone is inactive, and when I saw Shockeyy post "sorry I'm inactive, I promise I'll be active later," I wanted to pressure him to make sure that he actually keeps his promise and doesn't disappear as soon as we forget about him.This is typical mafia to me. I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. Okay, note what he's saying. 1."I'm just pressuring Shockkey". Yet Nemesis never ends up unvoting him, despite Shockkey becoming considerably more active. 2."Hey, no one else is adding new content." Well for one, that doesn't give you an excuse at all and second, you've done some pretty decent analysis in previous games. Furthormore, other people had actually been actively talking about stuff. On January 21 2011 11:17 Nemesis wrote:
Pandain all you did is define inactive/lurker. You still haven't answered how we can differentiate between them.You are just repeating the same points over and over again without really answering that question.
The only thing that we can really do is prevent everyone from heading that way in the first place by pressuring/lynching inactives. Keeps saying "Lynch inactives!" Again, we want to lynch lurkers. But that's really moot, and it's more the philosophy of how to play mafia rather than mafia itself. Notice how rather than actually contributing at all Nemesis has just defended himself and argued over the definitions. On January 22 2011 12:52 Nemesis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 12:42 Hesmyrr wrote:On January 22 2011 12:35 Nemesis wrote:
Ok wait, why are people voting for LSB?
This is a rather a bit of a weird bandwagon. There has been too much speculation on people's actions so far. It's day 1, and people are trying to analyze out of a few posts.
Shockeyy is pulling an OMGUS. Barundar is just bandwagoning. Pandain just seems to be flip flopping looking for a target that people are willing to follow him with. Would you consider voting for GMarshal if someone else votes for him? I'd ask you to switch now but then it becomes 3-3 tie which is the last thing I want. Want to avoid LSB lynch for now since I did not analyze him much, and this bandwagon seems to have come out of nowhere. I am not really sure about voting for Gmarshal. He seems to be trying a bit of forced activity, but at least he is trying, while shockeyy on the other hand has pretty much been useless. Note how Shockkey has by this point actually been contributing somewhat. At least more than Nemesis. He's changed from "just make sure he doesn't dissapear" to "lynch him, he's useless." On January 23 2011 03:58 Nemesis wrote:
Hmmm, town is in a bit of a bad position right now with BC getting modkilled.
Right now it is
6-3
5-3 (after tonight)
3-3 (the next day if we mislynch)
So next day is pretty much LYLO, unless medic succesfully protects someone. We need to be careful about the next lynch and not be too rash. States the obvious.
His posts, as town, in TMM2
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7478150 Contributes ALOT Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 09:54 Nemesis wrote:On January 04 2011 17:29 orgolove wrote:
I apologize for being busy.
So we're having a day 1 lynch without any starting information huh. An open setup with unknown roleblockers gives a disadvantage to the town, but as the saying goes, "a challenge means god's afraid of your progress"
All right, lets see.
...
Looking at the past two pages, there's nothing to analyze. There's only been two votes, and the only discussion has been whether to lynch inactives.
no. Bad idea. In a game such as this, planning to lynch an inactive just allows the reds to guide the discussion to whichever inactive green they know isn't a part of them and leads to the town's disadvantage.
I'm not going to post any votes until there's something more concrete to go on. Orgolove comes in, makes one long post and then disappears. If you actually look at his post, he doesn't really say anything except "there's nothing to analyze." and disagrees with lynching inactives without really adding any more. Basically he makes a long post that doesn't really say anything. ##Unvote: Team 3
##Vote: Team 9 Flamewheel/Orgolove gives a decent reason and vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7517284contributes alot again
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On January 24 2011 13:01 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 11:31 Pandain wrote:
Why I believe Nemesis is mafia.
Summary: Nemesis to me is scum. From "contributing without really contributing", weak contribution compared to his previous game(such as lack of analysis) to his general posts this game, Nemesis has been playing scummy. Note how when he was town he would contribute alot, and I even waited a day for Nemesis to perhaps post something, but its very likely in my eyes that he's scum, and just wanted the day to go by.
I'm unsure about nearly everyone, but Nemesis in my eyes is our best bet.
You confuse me this game Pandain...I don't understand your logic at all and maybe that's the ploy, to do crazy random shit that no one can follow. You say Nemesis is "contributing without really contributing" but you're even worse. Before this analysis, you were basically "contributing so much that you weren't contributing at all." By jumping from target to target and playing up the fact that you were only doing this to "start up conversation", you basically had no opinion on the game because you pointed fingers at everything and everyone. You realize that isn't helping town right? Making conversation is good, making the topic change every 10 minutes is bad. We went from Nemesis to BC to Shockey to LSB. I think there was someone else in there but basically by doing that, we can't pin you down for anything. Do you see how you're doing the same thing as "contributing without really contributing"? Also, you're riding on him for not contributing today when more than half the town didn't contribute. I don't think that's a strong claim at all. Does that mean GGQ and Hesmyrr and Me are mafia too? Even you barely contributed today until a few hours ago. It's the semi finals for the NFL so maybe that's why some people aren't here? I know that's what I was doing all day. I really don't understand...I don't think you're mafia just cause you're playing so randomly and loud but at the same time that's so WIFOM...for all I know, in a few hours, you're going to jump to trying to lynch someone else...can someone else weigh in on this? I'm confused as fuck on Pandain's actions. What do you think GGQ...I just don't even...sigh Pandain, can you explain what your logic was for your actions on Day 1? Would make my life easier.
It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt.
Take me out of the equation. What information would we have had?
As for Jackal, he's my number two suspect. However I think he is being too "brazen" for a scum. Like saying I'm mafia "100%", what mafia would do that? Mafia want to seem level headed, not "omg this guy is red 100%".
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On January 25 2011 01:14 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 00:50 Barundar wrote:
Posting from airport, should be home in time for tonight. Quick thoughts:
- Since it's quite possibly lylo, dt should claim if he has found red. Another night of check won't help us if we have already lost. Also please stop us if we are about to lynch someone you have found town. Personally i doubt we have any dt's, but hey...
- It appears Gmarshal claimed to have gotten roleblocked, so we should probably not look at lynching him tonight. We have atleast 2 other reds to look into. Who do ya have in mind as the 3rd one? In my mind it's Pandain #1. Nobody is that unlucky.
What do you mean nobody is that unlucky?
You mean because I thought LSB was red on day 1, and then it turns out he's green? Let me repeat on day 1?
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On January 25 2011 01:22 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +It's called creating your own information. Day 1 is all about that. In most day 1's, we have no information at all. With the exception of Nemesis, all of my accusations day 1 were not serious, they were just to get them talking as well as generate discussion from others. I do this in all my games as town, I pressure people until they talk enough. For example, the reason why I unvoted Nemesis and waited was to see if he would actually start to help scum hunt. If they weren't serious, why did you vote for Shockey? And why did you switch to LSB, not Nemesis, if he was the exception? Something's not adding up... We still have no information...just you saying that you think Nemesis is mafia with no real solid backing, in my opinion. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like you're grasping at empty straws. Post a better analysis please. And leave out the "he didn't scum hunt, only went after inactives" argument, it's getting stale.
I voted for Shockkey because I didn't want to have a tie. Note how I never accused Shockkey, I defended him. Yet between lynching a person I FELT was a "bad" townie(I'm using that word lightly), and not lynching at all, the choice was obvious.
As for Nemesis, I agree. I'm not certain about anyone. However Nemesis is my best bet, and that's why I'm voting him. Playing vastly different from his previous playstyle when town, going for the easy lynch, and just general scum traits(which you don't want me to talk about), lead him to be my #1 suspect. However of course, its day 2. Do you have anyone better?
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I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia?
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hai jackal u just posted in the other mafia game -.-
sup?
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On January 25 2011 07:23 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 07:09 Pandain wrote:
I was serious on LSB too >.>. Sorry if I can't remember all of the 5 people I pressured.
And how could I have broken the tie with a vote on nemesis? If I switched to nemesis, Shockkey still would've gotten lynched.
As for my playstyle, I heavily disagree. I feel I have done well this game so far, albeit I admit whether Nemesis is mafia will determine just how well I've gone. I've been THE most active player this game, generated the most information(and how is it bad for town, getting people to talk is ALWAYS good).
Great, now if even one townie voted for me, we lose.
Jackal, if you're really serious about wanting me lynched, and not just mafia, then please respond to my coments to you. You still have really nothing that you yourself are lynching me for besides "I'm unlucky"(got one thing wrong? wtf?).
And still, I'm the only person actually trying to scum hunt. I'm the only person pressuring people.
How am I mafia? You didn't miss one. You missed two. Shockevvy = green LSB = Green and then BC mod killed = green. You were voting for all 3 at various times. Pushing hard for LSB and then voting Shockevvy when you were afraid of a tie. It's just too convenient.
Let's see:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#162-say shockkey is town
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=9#174
I THINK lsb is mafia
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#145
That is the only post in which I voted shockkey, and note how I said I don't think he's mafia, but didn't have anyone else to vote for. Later on I thought LSB was our best bet, so I tried for him.
As for BC, originally I thought he was scummy(and keep in mind when I say that I mean keeping in mind that its day1), but then when he was like "you guys have to learN" instead of the typical"I'm busy", that made me think he's town.
Are you really voting me because I was wrong on day1? Because I got ONE person wrong on day 1?
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1. Jackal58-What he says doesn't make alot of sense. He could just be really confused, but for instance saying I thought Shockkey was town. So either he is just not understanding everything, or is mafia.
2. Barundar I'm unsure too. But he just isn't as active as before, and while he's done "an" analysis, he isn't really "active" per se. Like he's not actively trying to figure everything out, and seems like he's just chillaxing.
3. Hesmyrr-long analysis, getting replace when you wouldn't need to when mafia(as mafia, don't need to do so much thinking and "real" analysis.
6. Pandain
7. GGQ- Unsure, but he seems to fit his playstyle as town, albeit he's more active/seems to contribute more this game. I think he's town, but unsure.
8. Chaoser- still not getting a "good read", but my gut tells me he's town. Well actually my gut says he's mafia, but my logic says he's town :p. Contributes alot, and really theres only one thing that I can really say might prove:1.Not defending me when he switched to shockkey as well(albeit thats a small thing)..
9. Nemesis Ironically I'm not as sure as before, but I don't really have anyone else that I'm more sure of.
10. GMarshalFor one his vote on Nemesis. If he was mafia, then that means that out of the 3 votes on me, at least one would be town. That means if Gmarshall had voted me, he could've just said "yeah I think he's scum" and gotten me lynched. And mafia would win the game as long as no one got vigi'd/no vet hit/medic protection. Finally has contributed at least a decent amount.
Here's the current list from my perspective.
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What do you think of Barundar, Nemesis?
Or jackal?
Maybe I'm tunneling a bit.
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Actually now I don't think Barundar is mafia. I didn't realize he was at an airport.
Which also means your more likely scum based on my list.
First off, the fact is you really haven't analyzed at all, contrary to beforehand. Just because you got someone wrong doesn't mean you stop trying. Then you've said "well even if he wasn't scummy, then who would I lynch". The point is you find new people.
And I'm tired of people saying I'm derailing the thread so much. Like last time, with my fake claim. People hardly even talked about that, and in return it could've guranteed about 3 days worth of blue actions. Plus at least it generated discussion.
And now just because we're talking about "lynching inactives:yes or no" and the typical day 1 jazz, just because I helped forward that discussion, I'm derailing the thread.
As for what Shockkey had contributed:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=5#100
A semi analysis on you
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#150
A decent post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184673¤tpage=8#153
Showed he had been at least helping somewhat
Shockkey had started contributing, that isn't a lie.
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Frick.
I'm 75% sure out of you and Jackal, one or both of you are mafia  .
Cmon, where are other people? Why am I always nearly alone in trying to figure stuff out?
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On January 25 2011 08:46 Nemesis wrote:
I'm sorry but you call shockeyy's posts contributing?
The first post that you mentioned was I admit that he was at least trying.
But really he only responds when he is called out. It was the same thing with the other 2 post that you mentioned. His second post was an OMGUS for him having "2 jobs and school", and his last post is counting the number of post to "prove" he's not lurking/inactive which is pretty useless as it doesn't take into account the content of the posts.
Which is the same as you. You've really only been either defending(and then attacking) from your accuser(me.)
I'm going to be honest I literally I have no idea what to do right now. BC getting modkilled was .
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EPT
