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Not sure...I refuse to miss PYP, and I dunno yet. Plus I've been letting my activity....Die.
@_@....
When do you intend to begin? prior to new years?
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Keep forgetting PM's are allowed. Sup Doc?
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On December 28 2010 07:13 Insanious wrote:
I just want to throw this out there... but in Pokemafia we hit the active members of the game because well, they gave us something to talk about. We then badwaggoned on those people without thinking that no one was defending them. This turned into a game where all our active players were dead (town lynched them, and mafia killed them). At the end of the game we had few players that talked and mostly inactives.
This made it impossible to find the mafia. What I'm just trying to say is that the town helped kill the town by removing anyone who actually helped out and talked.
Inactives do absolutely nothing but hurt us, so I think we need to pressure inactives more than point fingers at active players.
On day 1, we have very little to work with, all we can do is pick someone to lynch and pray. We might as well kill someone who could be a lurking mafia or someone who will help kill us later in the game.
An active mafia is too smart to screw up on day 1 and die, as well an active mafia gives town a lot more material to work with once someone catches them with their pants down.
An inactive mafia looks like an inactive town.
To me, I would rather kill inactives (not don't post and don't vote, as in only vote and barely post) than kill someone who's actually talking.
In pokemafia we killed Kenpachi and Zeks since they were talkative and didn't speak like a perfect townie. On later analysis we saw that they didn't actually look like mafia, they just spamed a lot and we wanted that gone.
If we would of lynched inactives, we would of been able to find 4 of the 6 mafia, and would of saved 3 - 4 town. We would of won the game, but we focused on killing people that speak.
I mean, we can get rid of someone who isn't helping now, and then have our DTs check people while we do forum analysis. This helps us more later in the game, then a random lynch of an active townie helps us now.
Just my $0.02
Is it wrong I greatly support this post?
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Oh my bad. I really just haven't had that much to say in the thread. LSB quit pming me, but I've been talking.
My opinions as of now are this, LSB and Annul are probably two townies. Too aggressive and center of attention for day one for the mafia to want to do. That's just how I feel.
I liked what RoL said about not being surprised if they both were scum, but who knows, RoL hasn't been saying much else. Dunno how I feel about Doc yet.
With regards to my vote on Pandain? I've been talking with Pandain, and just haven't moved it yet.
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EBWOP:
(Conspiracy theory)
I liked what RoL said about not being surprised if they both were scum, but who knows, RoL hasn't been saying much else. Dunno how I feel about Doc yet.
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On December 28 2010 15:39 LSB wrote:
I'm confused. Can someone point out my scummy posts?
I want to see if you all actually read what I wrote or just mouthing information from Annul.
As for the OpZ inactive lynch, he has posted a bit now. But he hasn't really said anything besides what other people had posted.
Well, I've had nothing really new to discuss. I think Pandain needs to post more in the thread too. He's playing off again.
I liked Annuls original post against you LSB, but I can't really go from there. It isn't enough I'm willing to vote either of you on yet.
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exactly what pandain was doing in hp mafia, but i dont think lsb is detective.
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On December 29 2010 05:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 07:49 seRapH wrote:
It's pretty obvious that the Pandain wagon makes zero sense, so if you were mafia trying to establish credibility letting that go through would be stupid.
Annul my vote is going on you now because after reading through this thread I also think your analysis has been forced.
Also I'm keeping an eye on meapak. This is one of the posts I found really interesting. The pandain wagon did make no sense and Seraph says what I think he is trying to do. We can just label it wifom. At the same time he discredits Annul saying his argument is forcedShow nested quote +On December 28 2010 08:55 seRapH wrote:
A forced argument is when you try to conjure up something out of nothing. Then explains what forced means! But seriously, how is Annul's analysis forced? I read it, it felt pretty natural to me. Annul remains dedicated and keeps going for his lynch of LSB and LSB OMGUS him back which is a really shitty way to play and incredibly anti town. The thing is I also believe that could just be a blue tell from LSB believing his role to be important for town victory.
Who's argument were you calling forced earlier?
On December 28 2010 05:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I got my defense wrong! I have a strange idea. I think both annul and LSB might be mafia, this little tiff is exactly what annul/KJ did in ExMiMa although this is a little different. I know LSB is a better player than to attack his attacker AS mafia, its kind of an odd tell. My first thought was that he is probably town and just thought the analysis was scummy. But the analysis seems fine to me. The arguments almost feel a little forced too if you read through it. This is definitely something to keep in mind.
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EBWOP:
On December 29 2010 05:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 07:49 seRapH wrote:
It's pretty obvious that the Pandain wagon makes zero sense, so if you were mafia trying to establish credibility letting that go through would be stupid.
Annul my vote is going on you now because after reading through this thread I also think your analysis has been forced.
Also I'm keeping an eye on meapak. This is one of the posts I found really interesting. The pandain wagon did make no sense and Seraph says what I think he is trying to do. We can just label it wifom. At the same time he discredits Annul saying his argument is forcedShow nested quote +On December 28 2010 08:55 seRapH wrote:
A forced argument is when you try to conjure up something out of nothing. Then explains what forced means! But seriously, how is Annul's analysis forced? I read it, it felt pretty natural to me. Annul remains dedicated and keeps going for his lynch of LSB and LSB OMGUS him back which is a really shitty way to play and incredibly anti town. The thing is I also believe that could just be a blue tell from LSB believing his role to be important for town victory.
Who's argument were you calling forced earlier? I'm kinda confused
On December 28 2010 05:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I got my defense wrong! I have a strange idea. I think both annul and LSB might be mafia, this little tiff is exactly what annul/KJ did in ExMiMa although this is a little different. I know LSB is a better player than to attack his attacker AS mafia, its kind of an odd tell. My first thought was that he is probably town and just thought the analysis was scummy. But the analysis seems fine to me. The arguments almost feel a little forced too if you read through it. This is definitely something to keep in mind.
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On December 29 2010 12:36 seRapH wrote:Just finished catching up -_-'' didn't expect to be out all day. I still don't see why LSB was scummy at all. I mean look at annul's "analysis": http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7419308- Takes a bunch of meaningless jokes & spam and looks at them with serious face :|
- Basically tells us that talking about lynching inactives is anti-town. What?! So you'd rather have us ignore the inactivity problem altogether and lynch someone who's actually fighting it?
- So apparantly providing pure information is now scummy. How is this ANY worse than the numerous lurkers lying around? And at least his "information" is helping the newbies!
Seriously the whole inactive thing was just a talking point, and now I'm just thoroughly convinced that you're almost certainly a very closed-minded townie or scum. Hopefully the blue actions will yield something good so we won't have to waste a lynch on you though. + Show Spoiler +Oh hey I just mentioned blues again, I'm probably blue/scum right?
Did you see RoL's post calling you scum? I would guess with all the talk about it, you would have checked it....
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On December 30 2010 08:04 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 12:36 seRapH wrote:Just finished catching up -_-'' didn't expect to be out all day. I still don't see why LSB was scummy at all. I mean look at annul's "analysis": http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7419308- Takes a bunch of meaningless jokes & spam and looks at them with serious face :|
- Basically tells us that talking about lynching inactives is anti-town. What?! So you'd rather have us ignore the inactivity problem altogether and lynch someone who's actually fighting it?
- So apparantly providing pure information is now scummy. How is this ANY worse than the numerous lurkers lying around? And at least his "information" is helping the newbies!
Seriously the whole inactive thing was just a talking point, and now I'm just thoroughly convinced that you're almost certainly a very closed-minded townie or scum. Hopefully the blue actions will yield something good so we won't have to waste a lynch on you though. + Show Spoiler +Oh hey I just mentioned blues again, I'm probably blue/scum right? Did you see RoL's post calling you scum? I would guess with all the talk about it, you would have checked it....
fml, I missed a page.
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On December 30 2010 12:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
alright everyone vote insanious or my previously outlined reasons.
....Why you want to lynch vote now? Hatters probably placed bombs on them. Removing bombs is a good thing for scum. I want this to be discussed, not just followed.
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On December 30 2010 18:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Alright. So I am tired of this town being wishwashy so much. Tomorrow before I go to work I am going to decide on a lynch target. We are going to kill them, if I am wrong you guys can kill me if you so wish it. The thing is I will chose my target, I will push them relentlessly, and I will be right. I will most likely choose one of the three mentioned before, but it is going to be large analysis followed by a relentless attack until I get my way. I see three candidates going out right now with some shitty stupid reasoning. I will examine every person being suggested right now and decide which one is best. I welcome all who oppose me.
Let's kill Seraph, per your post about him. Insanious mentioned him, iirc but he came up with Brockett instead of siding with your decision of Seraph. I'm not too fond of the Seraph idea, but I would like your opinion on Pandainm RoL. I've been pming him, but we haven't talked much the last day.
On December 30 2010 14:54 Insanious wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh you, just like RoL make a huge mistake. I was not 100% sure LSB was blue. I was 100% sure he was either blue or red...
Either he proves he's blue. He lives. He doesn't, he dies.
This could of happened on night 3, wouldn't of hurt the town at all. It could of only helped by saving a blue for more nights, or saved a blue for the rest of the game.
Litterally no down side for the town... so we should of waited. I would of killed him instantly on day 3 if I wasn't 100% sure he was blue.
Waiting helped the town, killing him gave us nothing.
This is what I was saying... there was no point where I KNEW he was blue. And there was no point that I said I was 100% sure he was blue until after he died... Read my posts, and don't put words in my mouth.
The problem is mobilizing the town to kill someone. L had gotten himself out of millions of lynches, but just popping up with a new target. While you may have been all for it, we can't possibly be certain of anything.
I'd be fine lynching any of RoL's "certain" suspects. It's a nice idea, and clearly with how much it has been blatantly ignored, I'm fine to follow it. He has some decent point, and why is it that this is one game no body listens to him? I mean, dudes been on a streak with Day One Mafia finds.
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On December 31 2010 06:00 Insanious wrote:
Double lynch after day 1 seems a little soon... I mean, we might as well wait till day 2 to see if we can actually get some analysis done. We don't even have a single target for lynching right now, let alone two for a double lynch.
Maybe after we finally get some discussion going we can actually have some candidates for double lynching.
Seems like a good decision to me if Seraph or you wind up being mafia....Don't you think?
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On December 31 2010 04:20 GGQ wrote:
I feel that I should reveal this information since mafia already knows it; I was roleblocked last night.
I just read through the entire thread again and here are my thoughts:
-Pandain doesn't seem like scum to me, just a flip-flopping townie.
-Brockett narrowly avoided a lynch and still hasn't contributed anything. Much fewer posts and different posting style than his townie play in Pokemafia
-I'm still suspicious of TheMango but don't have solid reasoning for it
-I am pretty confident that ROL is town, but I dont necessarily agree with all his picks for mafia
-Insanious doesn't seem scummy to me. People keep saying that he was 'so sure' LSB was blue, but if you actually read his posts, that's not what he was saying
-I'm on the fence about annul. I always thought his tunneling on LSB was stupid, but that doesn't make him mafia. He certainly could be, though
-I'm most suspicious atm of Seraph (as ROL pointed out) and Mr Wiggles. While reading, I noticed that all of Mr Wiggles posts are riddled with uncertainty, fear, and unwillingness to commit. He may be a newer player, but it still makes me very susicious of him. My vote goes on him for now
GCQ has slid over to my likely town. I would also like to not, RoL is not without suspicion in my eyes. I'm just willing to see were his idea leads us.
On December 31 2010 05:03 Barundar wrote:
Mr.zergling would you mind posting your reason for voting mr.wiggles? And why you pick hin over the other suggested targets?
Would you mind pming me back? Everyone wants me to post, and be active, okay. Fine. I was content just reading, but if you would like to see all my thoughts, I'll start posting a few of them.
On December 31 2010 04:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I just finished reading all of Annul's posts and I feel a little ashamed of myself.
Why?
Didn't you promise to be active all day today....Because you didn't work?
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On December 31 2010 07:38 Barundar wrote:
I find it interesting you appear when called out OpZ. I'm unsure whether you trust RoL or not, most of your posts in the thread has been about something he said. What do you think speaks for lynching Insanious?
Same reason Mepak found it a good course of action. Not to mention the dude gives me weird vibes, and Seraphs increased activity? Why aren't you asking Seraph why he appears when pressured, ONLY after LSB is lynched? Yet I'm worth your time? Honestly, you PM'd me, which made me start posting some more too. But you just ignored my PM apparently cuz you haven't responded. I'm Willing to give RoL a lynch, (listen to him for one lynch), but beyond that, we will have to see.
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On January 02 2011 02:55 Barundar wrote:IRC was a great idea, I encourage town to take part in the discussions. I’m now convinced Pandain is town. We decided to hold off on Mr.Zergling, at least for tonight, and instead push for Orgolove. His only contribution to the thread is his vote for double lynch. Annul is a top suspect. He hasn’t added anything apart from getting LSB lynched, and has now gone into lurking. That said, we should ##vote double lynch for tomorrow. With the knowledge we get from the lynch and the night hits, we should be able to get 2 kills by then. Also it’s an insurance if Orgolove turns out not to be red, since we will need the extra KP. Please go ahead and join us on IRC 
In Annuls defense, I've seen him do that a few times in other games. I'm more concerned that Darth is going to be gone, and that should be noted.
IRC, I feel its a good idea. I sadly can't log onto it right now because I'm on my lap top, stealing some internet.
I voted for insanious, because as I've said, I'm willing to give RoL one lynch, but I still feel very iffy about him.
I'm going to change my vote from insanious to Oroglove tho, because of his post saying Pandain been spamming. He has by far slowed his spamming in several recent games. It's like theres a different person playing lately...I still don't know how I feel about him though. I won't call him protown cuz I'm not used to this Pandain, but his posts do scream it. I just wished he himself posted more. Which I can't really talk, but my internet usage has been rather limited.
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On January 02 2011 04:56 Pandain wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Annul
Pandain pm'd me asking me to switch my vote to orgolove.....AND pushed him himself in the thread....Now why would he switch his vote to annul?
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On January 02 2011 23:57 Brocket wrote:
Is there such a thing as 'too good'? RoL is getting a lot of unsavory attention.
I don't think Annul played properly and case in point he admits he's mafia before the day's news is published. Don't you guys want to see who RoL wants to suspect next before trying to kick him out? I guess the relevant people I'm talking to are medics, dt's and vigilantes for the night phase.
I mean, crazy ideas like RoL actually being mafia sounds so preposterous it might be true but it's definitely not 100%. I'm actually going to stand up for RoL because I can't comprehend him being mafia. Maybe it's my lack of imagination.
I'll suspect him if he starts using his credibility to make bad decisions like lynching no mafia for the rest of the game or bringing out more blue role claims.
Well if RoL goes for me, he's mafia. I'll openly claim my role, if someone's willing to help me decide.
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And where has insanious gone?
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On January 03 2011 03:43 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 01:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:On January 02 2011 23:57 Brocket wrote:
Is there such a thing as 'too good'? RoL is getting a lot of unsavory attention.
I don't think Annul played properly and case in point he admits he's mafia before the day's news is published. Don't you guys want to see who RoL wants to suspect next before trying to kick him out? I guess the relevant people I'm talking to are medics, dt's and vigilantes for the night phase.
I mean, crazy ideas like RoL actually being mafia sounds so preposterous it might be true but it's definitely not 100%. I'm actually going to stand up for RoL because I can't comprehend him being mafia. Maybe it's my lack of imagination.
I'll suspect him if he starts using his credibility to make bad decisions like lynching no mafia for the rest of the game or bringing out more blue role claims. Well if RoL goes for me, he's mafia. I'll openly claim my role, if someone's willing to help me decide. How does someone going for you make them mafia? Barundar just added me to his suspects list, but I don't think he's mafia one little bit.
Cuz I can prove I'm town. Who's a suspect you would like to see dead in 7 and a half hours?
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Pandain wants me to shoot Shockeyy/Tree.hugger, not Mr.Zergling or Orgolove. I realized I voted for orgolove, but it was at Pandain's urging that I vote orgo....
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On January 03 2011 03:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Oh and DT's tonight. All I want you to do is CHECK LURKERS. I believe most of mafia team (probably 2-3 of them) are in there and we can't analyze lurkers. It would be stupid for the mafia to try to frame one, and odds are even if they try you won't overlap.
As for the list of lurkers, here is what I have:
5. Brocket
7. Mr.Zergling
8. why
9. Jackal58
12. Node
15. ShoCkeyy
19. Orgolove
23. GeorgeClooney
24. d3_crescentia
27. Soulfire
30. ~OpZ~
Thats 11 people. Now since the Godfather is dead, any returns that are BLUE, or any returns you have gotten on people that are blue are 100%. In fact, anyone who has been returned town is guaranteed innocent right now.
I can confirm myself. I'm vigi.
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pandain claimed dt. he also pmd me asking to vote orgolove. i dunno, but i pmd him when he changed to annul and he said he wanted to keep the votes close. im sure he'll corroborate what im saying if he is town. id post pms but im on my phone.
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i hit rol. any claims? lol. sorry just got off work. posting from phone.
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sorry rol.....but im really fine lynching insanious now. or seraph. has he posted since you died? why has nobody said this. barundar is the one, along with myself who chose rol. but he used it as rol fucking up. dunno. i should of talked to rol. i guess i should of realized he was vet. always talking a lot during night phase. he didnt seem to be playing right.
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pm me your roles. pandain did ask me to change the hit from rol but i dont have any solid proof when it comes to actions. i used my hit on rol. we'd have something more to work with. bout to head to the comp tho, so ill be around
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I'm actually kind of confused. Night one three died. And last night 2, but I hit RoL....So mafia two stacked RoL? Did a medic save?
Barundar would of known I was hitting RoL...So i don't know...
Pandain asked me to hit Darth instead.
From: Pandain [ 2845 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: mmm
Date: 1/3/11 07:28
remember: shoot darth
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On January 04 2011 10:52 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 10:48 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm actually kind of confused. Night one three died. And last night 2, but I hit RoL....So mafia two stacked RoL? Did a medic save?
Barundar would of known I was hitting RoL...So i don't know...
Pandain asked me to hit Darth instead.
From: Pandain [ 2845 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: mmm
Date: 1/3/11 07:28
remember: shoot darth How is that confusing? Mafia is down to four, their KP reduced to 2. Add in a vigi or a roleblock and it makes sense.
Wait....How do you know.....?
[quote]
22 of 30 players remaining
? of ? Detectives remaining
? of ? Medics remaining
? of ? Vigilante remaining
? of ? Mad Hatters remaining
? of ? Veterans remaining
6 Town-aligned players have been killed
2 Mafia have been killed (Cumulative Mafia Count)
0 of 1 Godfathers remaining
? of ? Roleblockers remaining
? of ? Framers remaining
Mafia KP = ?
Current Mafia KP: 2
/quote]
What?
KP at two. So my vigi hit makes sense? Then what are you arguing? I was posting from my phone, I had to of read something wrong. Has anyone claimed to have hit anyone? Any other vigi claim at all? No. I been at work, and now I posted, almost a full day after night results. Plenty of time for another claim. Plenty of time for a counter claim. I'm voting you.
That's how I'm confirmed.
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On January 04 2011 11:15 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 11:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 10:52 seRapH wrote:On January 04 2011 10:48 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm actually kind of confused. Night one three died. And last night 2, but I hit RoL....So mafia two stacked RoL? Did a medic save?
Barundar would of known I was hitting RoL...So i don't know...
Pandain asked me to hit Darth instead.
From: Pandain [ 2845 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: mmm
Date: 1/3/11 07:28
remember: shoot darth How is that confusing? Mafia is down to four, their KP reduced to 2. Add in a vigi or a roleblock and it makes sense. It's not confirmed though. This just makes you look scummier. EBWOP. I'm not arguing about KP, I beleive opz however we don't know that the number remaining is four.
Seraph seems pretty certain that it's four though.
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Everyone, I'm Confirmed town, I need more claims. We need to be coordinated, and this is the perfect opportunity.
I claimed vigi, prior to night. Another vigi claiming my hit hasn't stepped forward, which a vigi with a spent hit is green so he would have NO REASON not to. I'm 100% Confirmed town, by the fact that other hit has occured and nobody has contested it.
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I like how all of you have posted that and no one is claiming to me. That's nice.
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On January 04 2011 12:19 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 12:08 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I like how all of you have posted that and no one is claiming to me. That's nice. How about I (we?) wait until tomorrow and do that? I want to be safe.
Work 8am to 5pm EST. So I'll have less time to coordinate everything. But sure. Not like there hasn't already been 24 hours for a claim besides mine.
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....havent even read thread, but im disappointed already
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On January 04 2011 14:33 why wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Blues, I don't think this is a good idea (at least not with Pandain at the center of it). The reason is simple: we haven't confirmed Pandain yet. At the moment, we are obviously ahead in this game with all DT's and medics alive and 2 mafia down. Pandain, despite all his pro-town actions (and I think it is very likely that he is town) is not 100% confirmed. He hasn't proved he is DT (he has only checked DrH who died before pandain claimed and then he got roleblocked but mafia could just not use their roleblock on a townie so no one could counterclaim). If he is red, then it would be a disaster so there's just no reason to have pandain lead this town circle when he isn't 100% confirmed. Now Opz, on the other hand, I can see claiming to if no one can think of a way he wouldn't be 100% confirmed. With no vig counterclaim, I can't think of a way for him not to be confirmed, so a town circle should form with Opz at the helm. Of course, the best way to do things would be to have a DT confirm people and then build a circle from the people he confirmed. But I guess there is no way to verify a DT is legit until he picks up a red and then we lynch the red, correct? So maybe the DTs are waiting until that happens so they can confirm themselves.
...I'm confirmed by the math. NO ONE COUNTERCLAIMED A POINTLESS COUNTER CLAIM. If a vigi was paying attention enough to send in a hit, he never checked the thread since? Hasn't everyone had to of post already because of the rules? Jesus fucking christ can I get some PMs?
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ok...Good point Darth. I just got to read the thread. -_-
I want to clarify. PANDAIN and Barundar, are not confirmed. So I don't think anyone should claim to them just yet.
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On January 05 2011 14:41 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 14:39 ~OpZ~ wrote:
ok...Good point Darth. I just got to read the thread. -_-
I want to clarify. PANDAIN and Barundar, are not confirmed. So I don't think anyone should claim to them just yet. OpZ, you got to step up and lead the town if you don't want unconfirmed people leading it. There are a lot of trust placed on Pandain because of your absense.
Yeah. Shockeyy apparently distrusts pandain and barundar too....
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On January 04 2011 18:26 Barundar wrote:
I agree with Orgolove. Lynch Meapak as scum and either Shockeyy or GeorgeClooney as lurker.
Why did you explain to orgolove what happened with the RoL hit? You commented that mepak was scum, and shockeyy and george clooney are lurkers...
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On January 05 2011 04:47 Barundar wrote:
No point lynching darth over gc in my opinion. We get nothing from gc, hardcore lurker.
We find out if role blocker is real.
Pandain claimed DT, and roleblock last night.....But we find that out tomorrow.
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I would also probably be a good medic protection target.
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Also, it would be nice if the medics, dt's, hatters, pm'd me. Only so I can pick your posts out and know who FoS at.
good DT checks,
Pandain, Barundar, Shockeyy, Darth. Any return of town is good.
Seraph is obviously mafia. Who's the only blatant person that CAN NOT SEEM TO GATHER VOTES and attention. Jesus.
Most of his posts have been defending himself, he hasn't role claimed to me, and the little exchange between mepak and him?
This should be priority one imo.
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On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
I find it kind of interesting how I and other townies are so concerned with proving our own innosence. Meapak wrote me he trusted me completely and would fight for me, and that feaked me out.
We brought it down on annul, I really don't need other proof than that. That annul rage on Pandain, just underlines a point. I trusted Pandain before this, simply for what he brought to the table and the way in which we exchanged opinions.
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb.
No. Shockeyy is likely mafia imo too.
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On January 06 2011 03:20 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
I find it kind of interesting how I and other townies are so concerned with proving our own innosence. Meapak wrote me he trusted me completely and would fight for me, and that feaked me out.
We brought it down on annul, I really don't need other proof than that. That annul rage on Pandain, just underlines a point. I trusted Pandain before this, simply for what he brought to the table and the way in which we exchanged opinions.
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. No. Shockeyy is likely mafia imo too.
...I dunno. Looking through the thread, Pandain went from defending LSB, to attacking LSB, to defending, and back to attacking....-_- I'm at a crossroads when it comes to lynching him. I definitely wouldn't mind a hatter to bomb him, if there is one.
I wouldn't trust the town in the hands of people completely unconfirmed....
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shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me
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On January 07 2011 01:49 Barundar wrote:People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:
shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful. Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH:
About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
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Original Message From seRapH:
I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
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Original Message From seRapH:
Why are we lynching Darth? Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak] Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game: Contribution: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" Tunneling Pandain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad. Reason for lurking: + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff. IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing? And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote:
Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote:
WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY
I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones.
SUMMARY
1.Contribute without spamming
2.Be active, make well thought out posts.
3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote:
Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote:
I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote:
Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive.
There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote:
I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself.
By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me.  On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot. And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He's mafia themango...
Those are some amazing PMs from Seraph. I'm voting him.
He takes stands in private? Include the time stamp like I do? RoL suggested him.
I'll also be willing to vote for you or pandain. I'm tired of everyone following your lead. Where has it gotten us?
Who do you suspect Insanious?
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On January 06 2011 20:59 orgolove wrote:
So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell?
Pandain fake claimed DT.
Pandain also is not posting. He is on though. He's pming me.
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Also, if you were roleblocked, please post in thread.
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On January 07 2011 01:49 Barundar wrote:People really don’t want to play this game :S More non participants posting than actual players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:40 ~OpZ~ wrote:
shockeyy, seraph or daarth. darth has only been saying he will contribute later and has not contributed. check his posts. they all almost say tomorrow. even his pm to me. im fine with his lynch, and seraphs.
either there are no blues or they arent paying attention. or they just dont believe me I don’t think Darth is mafia based on how uneventful yesterday’s vote was. But then again lynching the godfather was uneventful. Here are my PM’s with Seraph. He is willing to discuss with me, and puts forward his own thoughts. I don’t believe he is mafia, but please make up your own mind and post it in thread. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH:
About your votes, fine, your call.
I was about to go to sleep but I'll read the PMs if you want me to.
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'd rather let Pandain decides if he insist. He nearly got us to lynch orgolove yesterday, but I don't see my opinion on anyone as being more important than his. And I fucked up badly on RoL.
I've been pressuring Meapak in PM's, and I'm not sure I like his answer. On one hand I find he is acting completely unreasonable. On the other hand it just seems too stupid to be mafia. Do you want to give me your opinion on them if I send them to you?
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Original Message From seRapH:
I think he's the lesser of my two votes. Are you planning on switching off Darth or going through with supporting Pandain?
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Original Message From Barundar:
I'm leaning towards your votes myself. Darth is just me supporting Pandain. What do you think of meapak?
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Original Message From seRapH:
Why are we lynching Darth? Original Message From seRapH: Show nested quote +Just quickly looking at the voting I think Shockey is fine, soulfire is a little suspicious and darth is a lotta suspicious. I can't agree with this at all, seems like the exact opposite to me. But if he were mafia I don't really get why he'd want Darth dead so bad unless he thought Darth was blue. And to be fair you never pressed the question, but that is something to be looking for. I've just looked over TheMango, but for now Meapak strikes me as less scummy than the following: Mr.Zergling TheMango Soulfire I'm not afraid to lynch him, especially since he's claiming green. Also why is he so confident that why is Pro-Town? There's probably some PM contact between them but the thread doesn't say anything. ~snip~[my PM’s with Meapak] Lastly Shockeyy. I have no PM’s with him, but this is what he has done in the game: Contribution: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 13:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ok here how it goes. Pandain claims DT and no one counter claims cause they're scared of actually getting killed by mafia. Then Pandain ask for DT's to claim so early on in the game, why? Because since no one counter claimed him, the mafia weren't able to figure out who's a blue and since Pandain is a mafia, of course he wants the blue to claim so they're easier targets... Since pandain has everyone thinking he's a DT of course no one will go after him... On January 04 2011 09:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2011 09:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" How is attacking the godfather a good idea? If you really think they're scum prove it. At this point they're some of the only people scum hunting in the thread. Until you start pitching in I'd say pandain and barundar are way more town then you. Because the godfather was going down either way... Might as well as jump in on the bandwagon and just play along to not be considered "scum"... On January 04 2011 08:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And of course this "town circle" is the rest of the mafia. They're trying to confuse you guys by saying they're doing good and instead they're not. And about Annul, it's pretty easy to go attacking the very own mafia member to not seem "scummy" Tunneling Pandain: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2011 08:53 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2011 22:21 Pandain wrote:Alright also, me and baruder have started a town circle, including those we know are confirmed townies. DT(s), if you have checked someone who was green, as long as it wasn't annul, they are confirmed town. Feel free to claim to them.Furthormore I am opening up an idea for the town to discuss, and before anyone does anything we should discuss it in thread.
I have started a town circle with a few select individuals. I am willing to accept role claims. Now, there is a chance that I am not "confirmed" yet, despite the fact I have been roleblocked, and despite the fact I helped get annul lynched, and despite the fact that I have been one of the most active individuals in the thread. But I feel that for the reasons above, I am basically confirmed. Furthormore, unless a vigi claims whether to me or in thread that they shot node/RoL, opz is confirmed as well. Should we claim to him? Should we claim to me? I AM in a town circle with Opz, but this must be thought out before anything else. If I have medics with me, I can coordinate who to protect(so then not everyone protects me for instance, + Show Spoiler +or maybe they will, you can't tell mafia! . In addition, I'd like to point out that if DT's feel uncomfortable claiming to me, we can also have people they checked claim to me, and we can work from there. So, what do you guys think? Ok, I can't believe you guys are letting Pandain get away... He's asking for blues to roleclaim... He has everyone believing he's a blue, which clearly he's not imo. Why do you go asking blues to roleclaim it's pretty easy to stack hits as a Mafia member and just kill off pandain, but of course he hasn't died because he's one of them. If the mafia really wanted to kill off blues, they already know one right here. Pandain isn't a blue. Heed my warning. On January 03 2011 05:50 ShoCkeyy wrote:
And I put money on it that Pandain is a mafia. So I'm going to keep sticking it to Pandain. On January 03 2011 05:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He has gotten out of two day lynches some how and I'm still confused as to how you guys are not noticing this at all. On December 30 2010 12:48 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I vote for Pandain he keeps sending me messages and harassing me while im working.. I don't get home till tomorrow after 1pm, so I won't be able to keep up as much till then or be even able to post cause like I said, reading/posting on my phone is terribad. Reason for lurking: + Show Spoiler + On January 03 2011 05:49 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Meh, I'm not as active cause of holidays and work. Also when ever I'm active, I always end up dying first and since I'm a townie in this game, no point of trying to start analyzing in the beginning so I can just die the next day... So I've just lurked from my phone while I worked and posted when ever I needed too... But now that the night post will happy soon, we'll see what happens. I'll start being more active since I don't have to work crazy hours and stuff. IMO this raises red flag. A green that is afraid of dieing? And what to think of this?: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote:
Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote:
WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY
I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones.
SUMMARY
1.Contribute without spamming
2.Be active, make well thought out posts.
3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote:
Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote:
I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote:
Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive.
There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote:
I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself.
By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me. On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. On December 28 2010 22:46 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Ahh i read that wrong... this is what happens when you get 2hrs of sleep and are reading/posting from a phone. _.
Anyways, fosing myself cause im an idiot. And finaly: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2011 17:19 Barundar wrote:
Shockeyy you are acting like an idiot. Start following or I'm gonna assume you are dumb or mafia. And I don't think you are dumb. … On January 07 2011 00:09 ShoCkeyy wrote:
He's mafia themango...
uneventful? Go read the vote thread. -_- Darth got saved, last minute status.
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On January 07 2011 06:27 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
Okay hi I'm back. First off I have some bad news. I'm going to a model UN conference and won't be back until Sunday around 5PM. So until then I can't help you scum hunt. However, there are a couple things I want to comment on/note/talk about. Good. Town can stop sheeping to your fake DT claim and actually learn to think for themselves. My ass. Your only "check" you've revealed was that DrH was green. AFTER he was killed. Good job. And surprise surprise, for two days in a row, the reds never even came close to hitting you, despite your early claim as DT - aka highest priority target. Hmmmm. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
This indicates to me that mafia will probably keep on doing this because:
1)They know I'm DT, and this will be a succeful roleblock
2.)They might try to cast doubt on my role as DT
Sure. Just like they blocked you on day 2 and day 3, and you never claimed to be roleblocked on day 2. Right. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:But I still have good fashioned scum hunting, so I'm going to leave you with a bit of my thoughts. Let's take a look at the player list:3. SeRapH 5. Brocket 6. TheMango 7. Mr.Zergling 8. why 9. Jackal58 11. jcarlsoniv Barundar 15. ShoCkeyy 17. ilovejonn 18. Insanious 19. Orgolove 24. d3_crescentia 29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn Given that mafia KP went down after 2 died, and the fact that most likely there were 6/7(likely 6, 7 seems too big) mafia in the start, the formula for mafia kp is most likely # of mafia/2. So now there are probably either 4/5(likely 4) mafia remaining. I figure one of the best things I can do to help figure out who's still suspicious is to seperate the pro town from the rest. First off, who's pro town in my eyes: Me: Opz:Confirmed Mr. Wiggles: Posts long posts when he does, good content in them Barundar: Has been with me in a while, good reads from him on irc. In addition contributing to discussion. Insanious: Like Barundar, except not in constant contact with me. Still, very pro town in my eyes. Why: Doesn't post much, but those posts are long when he does. People who I feel are likely town, but less sure of: Jackal58
The Mango
Shockeyy
People Who I don't know:Soulfire- seriously need to post more Tree hugger-posts long, but hardly posts People who I think are mafia but unsure D3-hardly posts except when pressured. Seraph-RoL's main suspect, this guy has been pretty suspicious. Aside from an analysis about Soulfire, Seraph hasn't really contributed that much. People I think are mafia IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious. Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays." Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town. How nice of you to put your thoughts in your list. Now we know who NOT to lynch. Hint: you contributed to four lynches so far, and you hit 2 blue and 2 green out of it. The only lynch you tried to dissuade people from - annul - we actually hit a red. Coincidence? I think not. And "holidays" my ass. I've been having positive contributions to town way more than your "analysis." You apologize about how you're going to be inactive the next few days, then claim I don't post enough? Riiight. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
Finally, remember everyone should claim to Opz. He is confirmed, 100%. Let me repeat that. Him being vigi is the ONLY POSSIBLE way for three kills to have happened that night.
The sole remaining DT, you are the most important person right now. The people who you have found green are confirmed without a shadow of a doubt. The people who are found red you should tell Opz and then he will say so in thread so you remain safe.
Medics need to claim so more coordination.
Hatters need to claim for more coordination.
There is no reason for anyone not to claim to Opz. Yeah right. If ~OpZ~ indeed was a town-aligned , then why did he hit RoL, of all people, instead of an inactive, as he originally claimed? Even if he's town-aligned, I can't trust him to be smart enough to coordinate the remaining blues to the town's benefit. You. Need. To. Stop. Talking. Your "good-old fashioned scumhunting" killed four townies, two of them blue, and led us to waste our double lynch. Your open IRC idea was shit. Utterly shit. All it did was give scum even more tools to manipulate the votes and opinions of the town. Care to hurt us any more? If, as you claim, the mafia's going to perma roleblock you, then you no longer have any value to us. So quit talking. -------------- And town, we need the double lynch again. We may have been unlucky the last time, but the reds can't possibly sneak their way out of it two times in a row. And the double lynch is our last tool remaining.
THE MATH ALONE PROVES IM TOWN ARE YOU...@_@....Honestly....I would just hope you werent that....arghh..
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On January 07 2011 12:31 Insanious wrote:
##vote shockeyy
Can you post in thread?
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Can you all just stfu and vote seraph.
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On January 05 2011 17:01 Brocket wrote:
Enter the OpZ.
It's true that paindain and barundar have been guiding the town, and the double lynch was pretty sub par (at least no blues were killed). Paindain's been sussing out the blues by Pm'ing everybody including myself.
What I'm trying to say is, if they really are mafia then they are currently causing damage and have enormous potential to win the game for mafia since only a couple of us are starting to point fingers at them.
This is what I think about when OpZ says that paindain and barundar are not confirmed. Which is true since we're not all DT's. I have to say they've been pretty damn good acting as townie. I still want to believe they're townie but just take what they say with a grain of salt.
*yawn* Okay....Look at people pushing at Pandain....Anyway...Lemme go back to brocket votes.
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1. LSB (Veteran, Day 1 Lynch)
2. GGQ (Townie, Night 3)
3. SeRapH (Townie, Day 4 Lynch)
4. Meapak_Ziphh (Townie, Day 3 Double Lynch)
5. Brocket (Mafia Framer, Day 4 Modkill)
6. TheMango
7. Mr.Zergling
8. why
9. Jackal58
10. annul (Mafia Godfather, Day 2 Lynch)
11. jcarlsoniv Barundar
12. Node (Townie, Night 2)
13. LunarDestiny (Townie, Night 3)
14. DoctorHelvetica (Townie, Night 1)
15. ShoCkeyy
16. RebirthOfLeGenD (Veteran, Night 2)
17. ilovejonn
18. Insanious (Veteran, Day 4 Modkill)
19. Orgolove
20. Pandain
21. bumatlarge (Townie, Night 1)
22. tree.hugger
23. GeorgeClooney (Townie, Day 3 Double Lynch)
24. d3_crescentia
25. Tevo (Mafia, Day 2 Modkill)
26. deconduo (Townie, Night 1)
27. Soulfire
28. Mr. Wiggles
29. Ryuu314 DarthThienAn
30. ~OpZ~
Vote Count for Day 1
Votes for ShOckeyy (1)
ShoCkeyy
Votes for Pandain (1)
tree.hugger
Votes for LSB (12)
annul
TheMango
orgolove
DoctorHelvetica
Meapak_Ziphh
Brocket
Barundar
LunarDestiny
bumatlarge
Pandain
Soulfire
Mr. Wiggles
Votes for seRapH (1)
RebirthOfLeGenD
Votes for annul (3)
seRapH
Node
deconduo
Votes for why (1)
Ryuu314 (darth)
Votes for ~OpZ~ (1)
ilovejonn
Votes for GeorgeClooney (1)
GeorgeClooney
Votes for d3_crescentia (1)
d3_crescentia
Votes for Tevo (1)
Tevo
Votes for RebirthOfLeGenD (1)
~OpZ~
Votes for Brocket (6)
Insanious
LSB
why
Jackal58
Mr.Zergling
GGQ
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On December 29 2010 10:24 Barundar wrote:
I understand you want to save yourself, but Brocket is the worst scapegoat you could possibly find. He is as scummy as Kenpachi when posting, and now he is even afk. Voting him is the same as abstaining, and really gets us nowhere.
On December 29 2010 10:16 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:15 LSB wrote:
I did the vote count, looks like its 10 to 8.
People voting Annul. Please switch your votes to Brocket!
Annul isn't going to be lynched anytime soon. People voting Brocket. Please switch your vote to LSB! :p
On December 29 2010 10:31 TheMango wrote:
all I have to say is, if LSB is not mafia (which I still believe he is), then paindain + brocket may very well be. Paindain changed his mind/votes pretty fast when the attention was turned towards brocket (albeit he told me that he thinks mafia were trying to draw votes away from LSB).
On December 29 2010 10:27 Mr.Zergling wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:23 Insanious wrote:
There is still 2 hours left to vote, its not over yet... we just need to get some people to switch from LSB to Brocket, we have 2 hours... I fail at 12/24hr conversion.........my bad Also PM from paindain: why are you voting brockett tell me here in your own words why
On December 29 2010 10:30 annul wrote:
seriously the brocket vote has to be the dumbest idea possible at this stage in the game
why are we effectively giving up our day 1 vote? this is such a horrible idea it isnt even funny. what will killing brocket gain us? what information? none. none whatsoever.
taking down LSB however will give us a multitude of information.
On December 29 2010 10:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 10:31 Insanious wrote:On December 29 2010 10:24 Barundar wrote:
I understand you want to save yourself, but Brocket is the worst scapegoat you could possibly find. He is as scummy as Kenpachi when posting, and now he is even afk. Voting him is the same as abstaining, and really gets us nowhere. Between Brocket and LSB, I would much much much rather Brocket dead then LSB... There really isn't another choice now due to time constraints... Annul brought us to this point, a 1 person bandwaggon is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to the town. 0 analysis can be done concerning votes, mafia can hide where ever they want to when voting for a town... You need at least 2 candidates every day for voting or it might as well just be a random.org vote. LSB has a high chance of being a blue, and killing a blue, especially early is terrible.\ Brocket is most likely green or a lurking mafia... and since there have been 4 people comming out of no where to defend Brocket it makes me think Brocket is even more red. I vehemently disagree. FIrst off, LSB doesn't have a high chance of being blue, he's claimed everything from vigi to dt, and his supposed plan which no one knows what possibly could be he refuses to tell. Furthormore now your saying that we're forced to either vote brockett or LSB, and previously you had been saying you were voting him because "he played differently." Plus right now we can find out so much from LSB's flip. I know people usually say not to lynch for information but this is a special scenario. IT's all because LSB has claimed blue, and mafia know that, or that LSB is mafia, and they're trying to swing a bandwagon onto brockett to save him.
If LSB flips red- Great! We caught probably at least 3-4 scum who tried to swing the bandwagon onto Brockett, in addition to information from posting. Furthormore we caught a scum! IF LSB flips blue LSB is not DT, so we don't have to worry about that. Why?
-Claimed very early to be blue, DT wouldn't have done that being most important role. Would've waited.
-Revealed pms where RoL said LSB might be DT, and hinted strongly because it was the only role that could fit the plan. Why would DT be so reckless, especially when he seemingly doesn't want to claim? So we don't have to worry about losing a DT. So when, if blue, he would most vigi, then that's not even that bad of a loss. But most importantly mafia would be wanting him dead, since he's blue, and they know it. So people who voted for LSB should be looked upon with suspicion, myself included. But again I would like to stress people that LSB is 99% not blue, that he is 99% red. And I urge you to read my analysis I made of him, and realize whats happening here. Vote LSB. Stop the Bandwagon.
On December 29 2010 09:09 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2010 09:00 Insanious wrote:
I want to make it clear that the Brocket vote is based on him posting 10+ times in the first 24 hours of pokemafia as a town, and only once in 48 hours here.
Brocket is NOT playing like he did in Pokemafia and that is fishy as he was town there... So he is something different now. Bad reason why. There are so many reasons people act differently. There can be RL issues, he's just trying something new, and just add the fact that its the holidays and he's probably on vacation. Never should town lynch a total inactive. Town needs to be going after the lurkers, not the inactives. Not only do we gain nothing from Brockett's list, but add the fact that there are better people who are either showing signs of true scum or are seeming to contribute without actually contributing, unlike Brockett who isn't doing either. Scum usually want to seem to contribute. Not to mention that just because he has a different posting style(which could just be because he's busy) is no reason to actually lynch someone when we have people like LSB who if you really don't think is scum perhaps then you should fully read my analysis  . LSB knows better than to lynch someone like this, I believe you know better than to lynch someone like this.
*yawn* Pandain,s 2nd, 3rd, or 4rth post defending or soft defending brockett and instead pushing the person that claimed blue.
Just wanna point some of this out.
The Mango might actually be town...Mafia clearly would have went through great lengths to protect Brockett. Pandain PM'd people....Anyway...interesting time period.
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On January 08 2011 20:10 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 18:29 orgolove wrote:On January 08 2011 17:15 Barundar wrote:Most likely 12 v 3 tomorrow. This means we can afford a mislynch, so at this point if it can shut the discussion up we can kill our own unopposed DT claim. It would be completely retarded ofcourse.That Brocket is mafia means the people who switched to him day 1 are most likely town. These are: why, Mr.Zergling, Mr.Wiggles, Soulfire and Jackal58. Orgolove is quickly popping up on my radar again. He was strictly opposing IRC, and so far not one person who has been on there has been mafia. Before annul got lynched, he posted: On January 02 2011 11:06 orgolove wrote:
Again, as the time draws near, I can't help but notice that, just as in my case, none has stood up for annul's defense. I would think the reds would try to cover for him at least a little bit.... He is actually the only one questioning the annul lynch. He was one of the driving forces behind getting meapak lynched: On January 03 2011 14:40 orgolove wrote:
One of the my votes is still on Meapak based on his highly, highly suspicious voting pattern vs annul, which he still has not fully explained. On January 04 2011 17:21 orgolove wrote:
Hey. I've been busy.
First, Meapak is almost 100% scum considering his voting patterns around annul.
~snip~ But when Meapak was innocent, orgolove posted: On January 05 2011 23:00 orgolove wrote:
Ugh. What pathetic idiocy. He acted so scummily as to leave us no choice, but turned out to be a town. Wow. Saying we had no choice. Would be nice for a mafia to remove doubts as to his own involvement in the lynch? On January 07 2011 06:27 orgolove wrote: ~snip~ On January 07 2011 05:43 Pandain wrote:
People I think are mafia
IloveJonn-from weak thoughts to excuses for not analyzing, from making contradictions like saying we shouldn't just follow what other people think and then vote someone based on what someone else said, for weak vote reasons, this guy is suspicious.
Orgolove-Come on, it really can't still be considered "the holidays."
Mr Zergling Has been playing really scummy. For example, said in beginning we should be lynching inactives and then hasn't voted for an inactive sent. Defended Annul, and did a soft attempt at keeping the bandwagon on Orgolove. Right now really the only thing saving him is that he's playing similar to his last game as town.
How nice of you to put your thoughts in your list. Now we know who NOT to lynch. Hint: you contributed to four lynches so far, and you hit 2 blue and 2 green out of it. The only lynch you tried to dissuade people from - annul - we actually hit a red. Coincidence? I think not. Let’s not forget who it was that actually did the only attempt of diverting the lynch... On January 08 2011 02:18 orgolove wrote:
Ugh. Again. I see that we have no counter bandwagon forming vs Seraph. The reds are not worried at all about him dying. I think it points towards seraph -not- being a red. Again - I think we are following Pandain's lead into lynching another green. Why are we still trusting this fool...
~snip~ Tries to blame Pandain for the Seraph lynch. Handy if you know he isn’t guilty, and want to lynch a DT, right? And afterwards: On January 08 2011 13:53 orgolove wrote:
I fucking told you. -_- Well gratz on being right on Seraph, but wrong on annul and Meapak. Just look at how Meapak acted. Right when annul hit the vote mark where his total was even with me, he immediately switched his vote from annul. It was 99% a red who first voted for each other, but then realized they might be the deciding vote so changed it when it became close. The sealing deal was reports by people that mentioned he yelled at people in the stupid IRC to stop voting for annul. Tell me, what else would any of us have thought if you had acted like this? I was 100% certain that he was red. And if I play another mafia game and see someone acting like that again, then I will have no qualms voting him as a red. You can't just lynch based on voting, the only ones knowing whos red are the mafia themselves. If it was only down to mistakes made by people, then the whole town would be mafia. It's the same with lynching Pandain. He has made a ton of mistakes and his opinion has changed way too much just before the lynch. But that alone doesn't make him mafia. He has actively contributed, he has lynched the godfather and he has an unopposed DT claim - objectively speaking he can't be mafia. Try and look at it from an outstanders point of view. What is the evidence against him really? This quote pretty much sums up what the town degenerated into yesterday: If we aren't putting reason behind our choices, and only lynch to place blame for mistakes we won't win, simple as. It's not about hurt feelings, it's about the truth we can collectively discern from the events in the course of the game.
On January 07 2011 05:35 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 20:59 orgolove wrote:
So. What are the DT checks. I'm seriously doubting some people here who trusted Pandain from the start. Every target he pointed out so far either flipped blue or green. Pandain, if you really are a DT, give us your results. And why has the mafia not hit you, not even once?
And do we even have medics? We got absolutely no medic saves. The hell? Pandain fake claimed DT. Pandain also is not posting. He is on though. He's pming me.
Unopposed....
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On January 09 2011 04:49 Barundar wrote:
He fake claimed it?
I don't know. You don't read a confirmed townies posts?
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On January 09 2011 06:54 Mr.Zergling wrote:
Im all for getting rid of Shockeyy
Why?
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On January 08 2011 22:11 Jackal58 wrote:
I'm still pushing for Pandain.
On what basis?
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On January 08 2011 13:16 d3_crescentia wrote:
Wow.
Just... wow.
I'm starting to think that with the number of vets we had there are very few medics in this setup...
Who are your major suspects, and who do you feel is town? Why?
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Soulfire....If your town you need to post. If GCQ didn't claim roleblock, I wouldn't believe Pandain was roleblocked, but a Confirmed by death Townie claimed roleblock. So unless the mafia have been not roleblocking, Pandain is town as far as I'm concerned....
Kinda dead around here.
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It doesn't make since having a framer and no DT. Seriously. Lets lynch DTA.
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On January 11 2011 06:14 DarthThienAn wrote:
Ya let's lynch DTA.
What will his death tell us when he flips town? That... he had such and such an opinion.
okay.
Why aren't we lynching ShoCkeyy or Pandain?
Cuz roleblocker's existence was confirmed by GGQ. Either mafia are insane, and had framer and thought no DT was in the game (doesn't make sense), and wasted several days of Roleblocking by blocking only Pandain, OR NOT BLOCKING AT ALL <---- Does not make sense.
So....With that said...Either Pandain is an evil genius and called NO DT in game, or he is town. I'd lynch barundar.
I'm fine lynching you. You posted an analysis of GGQ....then he died, what, a few hours later? Yea. Where has your analysis like that been? Not in this game. You need to go. Even if your town, you haven't been useful at all.
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EPT
