EPTDon't lose yo village!
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Pandain
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Pandain
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Pandain
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2.Do they have a normal kp thing? 3.Does bodyguard still get converted? | ||
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Pandain
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I think that 'what you meant but just so people aren't dumb :p | ||
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*sighs* | ||
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On November 12 2010 12:43 LSB wrote: Actually. Here's a rough outline of a plan. Everyone roleclaims. This way we know what should happen. Then the tracker claims, and the shrink protects the tracker. The tracker then looks at conflicts see which roles are doubled up on, and then see if one of the people wasn't honest and visited someone else. What do you think? 1.Eveeryone claims. Mafia will convert dt's/maybe even doctor. 2.What if they convert the tracker? We can't even know if its' the tracker they converted. 3.If its vanilla townie, o snap. We revealed everything for nothing. Mass roleclaims are almost never good. | ||
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Pandain
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Why? | ||
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On November 14 2010 02:43 Glasse wrote: i'd suggest that the shrink guy protects himself for the first night :3 doctor can rng as the mafia pick will probably be random as well No. Shrink has to protect LSB. Or at the very least, RNG between him and another player. Here's why I'm a bit upset: LSB you shouldn't have claimed. Here's the scenario: You check someone. You're also confirmed. right now, there's a 1/3 chance you will find someone. Actualy, 2/9 chance it will actually lead to a mafia. Right now I'm debating whether you should check someone in particular or do it randomly. I'l lay out what we should do once this question is answered; 1.Is it like mafia has one person to send in kills? Aka, if LSB checked a mafia, there's only a 50% chance he would be able to be tracked? Or is it if LSB tracks a mafia, he automatically finds that it leads to the victim, regardless of who sent the kill? | ||
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Pandain
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We don't know if artanis is confirmed, barring other clam's/calms claim. But someone would have had to die for that to happen. So here: Artanis, since it doesn't matter, are you calm or clam. then if someone counter claims, we caught ya'. | ||
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Pandain
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If it's a townie, then you know he's confirmed because he didn't do anything. If it's a doctor, then you would know he's confirmed because he didn't hit Artanis(assuming artanis is town, which shall be found out via the above.) So there's no way to know who is. | ||
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Pandain
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An Analysis of Dr. H: Summary: Dr.H strikes me as more mafia than town. Note how he has been playing this game, almost like he doesn't care. Note in Insane mafia, the game where he was town, he was constantly talking, contributing, trying to actively find out whos town. In this game, he's hardly contributed at all! More so, he's contradicted himself by saying we should pressure people and now says we shouldn't because it's pointless. Furthormore still, the fact he has been saying we need to actively scum hunt and pressure people is conflicting with the fact HE HAS DONE NEITHER. Finally, the icing on the cake is the fact he wasn't shot, when in all truth he was probably the most likely to get shot/converted. His posts: On November 12 2010 13:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: thought you were talking to me when you said doctor >_> Irrelevant. On November 12 2010 13:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote: and the mafia will just circumvent that by mindcontrolling everyone else lol One line contribution. On November 13 2010 05:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: he was good in both games imo Irrelevant. spam. On November 14 2010 08:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I really don't like the idea of everyone knowing what the shrink/doctors are gonna do. If we direct the blues that easily then the mafia simply only have to do exactly the opposite of what they shrink has claimed to do in the thread. If the mafia know the shrink is protecting player x, they will just never convert player x, meaning they will never fail in their conversion. The doctor and the shrink should feel comfortable acting on their own discretion. You need to understand what the best targets for mafia are. For death, strong blues (like LSB) will be the main target. For conversion, veterans/good players (myself, LSB) will be the strongest targets. Try to predict what the mafia are going to do, don't give them information. If we're going to do some sort of mass roleclaim thing, it needs to be set-up so that the mafia are forced to give the town bogus information. Mafia want to play the game giving as little information as possible in regards to everything, forcing them to come out of the woodwork is what will make them slip-up. Don't be scared to pressure. I don't like this post. For one, he's basically saying we shouldn't help the shrink/doctor. But we have been saying (for the most part) that the doctor should RNG between people. Of course we're going to protect LSB via the shrink, that's the most logical thing to do. Note we have to say this so we are sure, he says "well then mafia will just convert someone else" but we have to make it so they don't convet other people. Also keep in mind that one of them would have to die if they want to convert, so that is even less of a point. Furthormore, he says don't do what people in thread are saying. But again, the doctor is free to do his own choice. We are giving him valuable advice, mafia don't know if the person is going to follow it. Also note he says mafia wants to play the game giving as little information as possible, and don't be scared to pressure. Later note he never pressures, and he gives hardly any analysis/information. One of the main things about this post is that it doesn't really help with our situation, it just gives general advice. That's one of the favorite things for mafia to do, just pretend to help via "generic" advice while not contributing to the matters at hand. On November 14 2010 08:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Also town, if you feel someone is pretty strongly pro-town I'd advise you not to tell the town (hey I think player X is definitely a townie) wait and watch, mafia might try to make a bad case on that person and fall into the trap. it's ok to keep your thoughts to yourself. we don't need to know everything you're thinking and the mafia CERTAINLY don't. I do not like this AT ALL. First of all, we SHOULD be talking about in thread who we feel is pro town. Just because mafia "might" try to make a bad case on a person is a horrible reason to shush discussion about who we feel is pro town. If you make your point now, then mafia aren't going to attack them at all. In fact, mafia probably won't attack those clearly pro town players since they'd have no proof. All this is doing is limiting discussion, which I DO NOT LIKE. *yawn*. I still don't get how this would work. On November 14 2010 14:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That is true. You're also the best target in the case of there being no mafia suspects. We need to scumhunt instead of putting pressure on you. You never respond well to it anyway, it's pointless. This is what really set me off and made me decide to do this analysis. Dr. H has not been scum hunting, and this is the first time he comes out and defends someone(out of the blue basically.) In addition, HES CONTRADICTING HIMSELF. Previously he said "Don't be afraid to pressure people" now he's saying "we need to scum hunt instead of putting pressure on you." BUT NOTE HES NOT DOING EITHER. Also saying it's pointless is false, pressure is always informative. On November 15 2010 03:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote: he didn't say he was neither calm nor clam he said he was either calm or clam, he just doesn't know which one big difference. we can't just accept artanis as 100% town. vet is one of the best fakeclaims for a mafia, but something about his play doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me as mafia. he's at the bottom of my suspects list really wish he refused to answer that question about his role pm. would have been such a good trap if he said he was calm and then some mafia said "well im clam" Makes a very vauge analysis on ARtanis(something doesn't seem right to me about his play if he were mafia, but I won't elaborate.) Also Artanis IS confirmed if a calm/clam doesn't reveal that they in fact did get a specific role(aka clam or calm.) So I don't like how he's saying he's not. And then he says "I don't think he's mafia." Again, not a total contradiction, but should be noted. On November 15 2010 03:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote: i would think i'd be the day 1 target maybe mafia predicted i would be protected by a doctor or they're doing the same strategy I did in Micro Mafia Redemption where we intentionally avoided hitting vets so I wouldn't fall under suspicion for being the "last vet alive" Agreed. Why did scum not target you. Why did they decide to hit Artanis instead. It just doesn't make sense to me. Again, it's possible that they thought you would be protected, but that's not that likely. | ||
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Pandain
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Pandain
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Also would like to hear feedback from other players(like KtheZ) | ||
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Pandain
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as in "dang was hoping we caught a scum" and "Was hoping he would claim clam and than mafia claims calm" or something. | ||
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On November 15 2010 01:50 Pandain wrote: In addition, LSB who is confirmed. Why should you tell? Obviously in case I'm missing something mull this over, but here's my thoughts: If it's a townie, then you know he's confirmed because he didn't do anything. If it's a doctor, then you would know he's confirmed because he didn't hit Artanis(assuming artanis is town, which shall be found out via the above.) So there's no way to know who is. LSB what about this. In addition, I think you should track Dr. H tonight, and doctor and shrink both protect you. | ||
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Pandain
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On November 15 2010 04:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: "doctor and shrink both protect LSB so we can convert DrH and kill someone else" If you'ure converted, another mafia dies. In addition, your already highly suscipcious to me(i'll respond to your post later) | ||
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Pandain
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On November 15 2010 04:01 Kenpachi wrote: To Pandain:We could have possibly faked a possible roleclaim if Artanis claimed Clam, Mafia could have tried to cause confusion and claim Calm and fall for the clam claim. the clam bros know that the role didnt specify which clam they were. We? We could have possibly faked a possible roleclaim? | ||
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Pandain
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On November 15 2010 04:04 Kenpachi wrote: We being town.. assuming Artanis to be town.. So town fakes a possible roleclaim....why? | ||
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On November 15 2010 04:05 Kenpachi wrote: to bait a Mafia to take the fake roleclaim But what if the vet's claim because they think they then found scum? Which was very likely. | ||
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Pandain
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Going forward though, the flaw in the plan might still be important. | ||
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On November 15 2010 03:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm surprised I didn't get converted, moreso than shot. But I provided two reasons why they might not have targeted to me. Why wouldn't the mafia think medics would protect me? Who else would the doctor protect lol and I already said, it is possible mafia don't target vets. particularly if one of the 2 mafia is a vet, not targeting the other vet in the game will keep suspicion off of him and then mafia can bandwagon me, naw sayin? that's how I tried to get brownbear or whatever in micro mafia. i have no idea why you think its unlikely a doctor would protect me lol One of your reasons was they might be doing the thing where they don't target vets so, like your example game, you don't get under suscipioiini. The other one was that it could lead to wifom about "why are you alive." I think the more logical option is just to take you out and be safe. Why wouldn't the doctors protect LSB, lol. Would be pointless for him to track someone and then die. But it's mainly besides the point if a doctor protect you, the point is you didn't get shot/converted, yet Artanis did. i believed artanis claim, i was hoping mafia would bandwagon the shit out of him trying to make his claim look fake, that's what i meant when i was talking to kthez Why would they be so rash? anyway about pressure being a bad thing. coagulation is bad at this game. if he is town pressuring him will just make him look bad, if he is mafia pressuring him will make him look equally bad. the best bet with him if he's mafia is that he'll be really transparent and defend some mafia buddy in a super obvious way So we should never pressure coagulation? And again, if he's mafia, I'm pretty sure he's being coached from his previous mistakes. I was just going to say how pressuring inactive players with votes can be good as long as it doesn't become a deathwagon Your not doing anything though as far as me not scumhunting sure I am. i'm reading everyones post and thinking. i'm not gonna spam the thread with FoS's on everyone who says something mildly dumb or suspicious otherwise I'd be FoS'ing all the time lol. i decided my biggest mistake as town in insane mafia was posting too much and thinking too little. Well you are spamming the thread "tru", "he was good at both games imo" and so forth. So your just not going to spam when its actually relevant? The point is your spamming, but not with real info. and i wasn't analysing artanis really. you said "i don't like how you're saying he isn't confirmed" but he fucking isn't lol. the other bulletproof shouldn't claim, this narrows mafia targets down way too much, the whole purpose of a bulletproof role is you goad the mafia into shooting you. sure if the other one claims the same thing it "confirms" artanis but then we just lose the whole point of the role, don't do it Well now you say he should claim. And in all liklihood he is confirmed. I would say your right, he's not because he doesn't know whether he's clam, calm, but since you never brought it up I will stand by this point. now as far as not saying "i think this person is 100% townie" here's why. if I say and convince everyone, say, Kenpachi is definiiiiitely town. Mafia just won't even bandwagon them. If I hold my tongue and wait to see if mafia pressure him with bullshit then I can come out and hopefully cut through their bullshit and catch a mafia. we all know who we think is town, it doesn't limit discussion, it's a pointless discussion in the first place imo Good, they will have to find other people. And we'll have more general info. For example, if a more expierenced player is like "Hey, this guy is obviously town!" then that's useful to share with less skilled players. And it's definitely not pointless since you've already said you don't think artanis is red. you can feel free to disagree but I want to a play a game where the mafia makes mistakes, the more we tell them the less room for that there is. artanis claiming was a mistake, let's not do additional damage by having the other BP roleclaim even if its to do something like confirm artanis and aren't you saying now we should have him claim. | ||
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Pandain
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Right now though I still think LSB should check you. So Dr. H, what are your thoughts right now? | ||
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Pandain
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On November 15 2010 10:54 LSB wrote: In order for No-Lynch, does No-One have to gain the most votes, or a majority of votes? It says majority. Also right now I am against not lynching. Why? Right now lynching will provide us information. Not lynching is like basically just allowing mafia to snipe one of us of, without us getting anything in return. Therefore, by not lynching, it's like we basically tell mafia "Hey! Have a free turn!" I think lynching unsure is better than not lynching. This may be controversial, but this is what I'm thinking right now. I'm either for lynching Dr. H or one of the other inactive-like people (kenpachi, coag, i'll have to see more.) | ||
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Pandain
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On November 15 2010 11:06 LSB wrote: Okay, say we lynch coag. What information will we get? Say we lynch Dr. H. What information will we get? 1.One less person that could be mafia(if town) 2.Information on Dr. H 3.Information from his posts. 4.If he's mafia/town Dr. H: 1.Information on Coag 2.Information on ARtanis 3.Information from whether he's scum/town 4.Possibly one less mafia. So forth. | ||
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True dat | ||
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On November 15 2010 11:33 LSB wrote: All right, can you elaborate on these posts and information? What's the ties between coag and Doctor H? What information is in Coag's posts? I don't lynch for information. That's bad policy. Lynch because their scum. If your going to do a formal accusation. Go ahead. Coag-Dr. H: Dr. H came out of the blue with his first real post about how we shouldn't go into pressuring coag because nothing will come out of it. In addition, it is here where he contradicted himself with the whole "pressure" thing. Information on coag's posts, I admit there are not much except what can be gleamed from Dr. H. Which is why I think Dr. H would be the better lynch. I'm saying lynching, even if for information, is usually better than not lynching at all. Obviously we shouldn't prize someone as a lynch because of the information offered, but it is proof that it is better to lynch than to not. Why do you want to not lynch? Again, all it will do is give mafia a free turn. | ||
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Pandain
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I agree you offer more information on coag than artanis, but again, that's besides the point. I'm not saying to lynch you because of information. I'm saying to lynch you because you have not been contributing like you usually do(albeit there is a slight chance you are just trying to stay in shadows until BAM), you came out of the blue to support coag(thereby contradicting your earlier "don't be afraid to pressure someone.). Yet even that has a reason. I'm honestly not sure whether to lynch you, but you strike out to me. Unless someone brings someone else up I'll probably stick with you. But again, you don't strike me as "OMG THIS GUY IS 100% SCUM" but rather "Well...this is my best bet." Albeit I do agree I need to go through mafia boot camp :p | ||
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 I knew I would regret it. Yet now if i withdraw vote I look scummy But again, who else do you think is a good lynch? | ||
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I just hope you really aren't mafia haha. Hmm.... I'll wait for more people talking before voting again. | ||
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An analysis of Kenpachi(Hopefully this will be up to dr. h's standards :p) Summary: Kenpachi seems to me to be playing the "lurking" mafia. He lurks, and then tries to make excuses for this when really it just seems like he's trying to explain away an inherent guilt(mafia.) He supported the no lynch, which is very anti town since it gives mafia a free turn. And his posts have been devoid of content save a soft defense/not defense of youngminii. Many of his posts have been questions, some have been clarifications, but nearly none have been real contributions. Therefore I am for lynching Kenpachi, since at the very least he's not really contributing, and also dr. h seems to me to have have a good enough defense. His posts: On November 12 2010 14:06 Kenpachi wrote: Sorry guys for being inactive for.. 2 hours I really dont have much to input atm because the shrink doctor tracker is rather confusing ~_~.. Also, how would clues point towards the scum? lol First post, apologizes for not talking for two hours(why? Perhaps this is sarcasm?) Apologizes for not contributing, yet doesn't try to understand, instead asking other irrelevant questions. Why is this? It just doesn't make sense to me to say your not going to contribute because you don't understand something, then ask unrelated questions. On November 14 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote: lol wow ~_~ i really dont wanna lurk but there isnt much to say at this point because nothing happened overnight.. I remember reading over Ver's guide an important tell from mafia, and perhaps this is relevant. Ver said scum usually feel inherently guilty, and therefore they have to prove something. Now, what is this post doing? All it's doing is saying "sorry I'm lurking." Why would he have to explain himself unless he was suscipcious of being called mafia, and this post is just really contentless. On November 15 2010 02:56 Kenpachi wrote: I somewhat agree but hes just suggesting it. Hes not giving much support to it so it was probably to generate ideas. How would we resolve if mafia counterclaims as the third clam? Doesn't really offer anything, just soft reasons. In my opinion it is usually common for scum just to go semi lurkish, while giving soft-reasoning paragraphs devoid of hard opinions in order to appear active. This is why I'm really starting to doubt whether both YM and DR. H are scum, and think they might be both town. This guy is just saying "I somewhat agree...but then again I don't(give reasons that sound like even he isn't sure.) mmmm On November 15 2010 04:01 Kenpachi wrote: DrH has been putting less feedback in this game but i think his clam calm plan was brilliant. To Pandain:We could have possibly faked a possible roleclaim if Artanis claimed Clam, Mafia could have tried to cause confusion and claim Calm and fall for the clam claim. the clam bros know that the role didnt specify which clam they were. Again, maybe this is just me, but the way this is worded just sounds suscipcious to me. I mean, "WE could have possibly faked a possible roleclaim?" For one, how can town fake a possible roleclaim. Maybe Kenpachi didn't use the right words or something but this is striking out to me. Furthormore, I've already shown how this theoretical plan was bad anyway, as it could lead to a real clam/calm claiming. On November 15 2010 04:04 Kenpachi wrote: We being town.. assuming Artanis to be town.. spoilering this because it is getting a bit out there, only slightly possible + Show Spoiler + again, along with the previous "we" it just sounds like kenpachi, dr. h, and possiblye artanis all knew what was going on, that this was a mega scheme to hurt mafia. Which just makes me suscipcious because there are no pms. But again, this is a weak reason. On November 15 2010 09:17 Kenpachi wrote: no hes saying that everyone should know the role pms before the game in games like this blah. On November 15 2010 09:46 Kenpachi wrote: ##vote: no one Its too hard to tell if someones mafia or not atm Weak, I've already shown that no lynching is worse than not lynching at all. And yet he doesn't respond to that at all. On November 15 2010 11:24 Kenpachi wrote: im curious to know how lynching DocH can give info on Coag and Artanis? question. | ||
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Pandain
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You know no lynch only hurts town. better to take a chance at the very least. | ||
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Pandain
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On November 16 2010 06:07 LSB wrote: I'd rather not lynch Kenpachi without a chance for him to roleclaim. It would really suck if we lost an important role. thats a horrible reason. Okay, there's a 1/9 chance he's a doctor. There's an 8/9 chance he's not, and I think he's scum. You know its better to lynch than to not, screw this "he could be important!" crud. | ||
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Pandain
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First of all, the question of whether we should lynch at all is brought up. This answer is a resounding yes, and you voting "No lynch" is very bad for town. All it is doing is giving the mafia a free turn without any benefits towards town. Even if kenpachi turns innocent it will be better than not lynching since we will have information. And a good chance, in my eyes, of lynching scum. If you read my analysis, Kenpachi has at the very least not pro town. He has hardly contributed, asked more questions than gave statements, and his only real thing is a soft defense of youngminii, which wasn't even really a defense. Right now Kenpachi is a typical mafia lurker, even giving excuses for him lurking when he didn't have to. What kind of townie says "sorry for lurking."? Lynch Kenpachi | ||
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On November 16 2010 06:23 LSB wrote: WTF. Lynching for information? Didn't I already tell you that was a stupid idea? How many times do I have to say this. Lynching for information only applies to whether to lynch or to not. And right now your saying we shouldn't lynch, which is stupid, because lynching provides us information. Obviously lynching a specific person over another person for information is stupid, but I'm not talking about that. And screw that whole segondou thing right now. We have only like 30 minutes left here. | ||
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On November 16 2010 06:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote: kenpachis posting behavior is consistent with his town play, extremely so. nothing about him says scum to me. lynch ym imo. if no one thinks he's scummy then I'll put my vote on kenpachi. a lynch is better than no lynch. I acknowledge that kenpachi has been uncontributive in the past, but that is partly why I'm lynching him over others. Mainly I'm really in the dark as who to lynch, so am just offering analysis of those I think are suscipcious. People say to lynch coag because "hes the worst" but he has been far more helpful then kenpachi. Also I'm not going to vote YM just because I am unsure as to your alignment, which you should be proud you convince me more so your town. Albeit YM could just be trying to push a Dr. H bandwagon, thinking he certainly has my vote and thinking he only needs to get one more. But right now I'm on the fence as to both of you. | ||
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On November 16 2010 06:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote: weren't you the person who first said i should be lynched for information? lol... That's because I was saying we should lynch for information, and then LSB gave the hypothetical "Say we lynch Dr. H, what information would we get." The most important things being your alignment, but also subtle clues as to others, which still applies. But again, that's not one person over another, that's just lynching in general. | ||
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that would be hilarious. | ||
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On November 16 2010 07:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: he's probably gonna shoot me and that'll be GG for the town except it won't be because it'll be 7v2 still. Actually I'm thinking this would be preffered. Cause then it would be 2 confirmed already, and I know I am(so i guess 3 confirmed for each respective player.) | ||
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On November 16 2010 08:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Honestly I think mass roleclaim might be the best idea. There will be inconsistencies with 2 of the roles, meaning there will be 4 possible liars. Then we just have to analyse those peoples posting behavior. What do you think? Then they take over other people, probably the best roles, whilst we have no other idea who is now scum :/ | ||
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Pandain
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Way to reveal me LSB. I'm shrink, protected myself. *sigh | ||
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On November 18 2010 06:19 Glasse wrote: ok, i'm actually flash. pandain is a fucking liar rofl. kthez or coag are mafia And we caught the second mafia. | ||
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Pandain
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So, your the "real" flash, but you went against the town consensus and protected yourself night one? And you immediately roleclaimed, when in the scenario you were the real flash you wouldn't, and at the very least would've waited a bit. | ||
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On November 18 2010 06:23 Glasse wrote: facepalm, please dont believe him :3 who cares if i went against the town consensus, i thought i should protect myself until i know more and not chance having mafia get 3 because their sacrifice didnt actually die Again, not what a real townie would do. We had already established LSB was innocent, so why would you,if the "real" shrink not protect him? "Who cares if I went against the town consensus" "Don't believe him please" Such great arguments, but sadly its already GG. | ||
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Pandain
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On November 18 2010 06:27 LSB wrote: Dude, your night 1 play was smart. As mafia would obviosly not try to convert me. And Don't play attention to Pandain. Coagulation and KtheZ can you please claim? Please glasse, pandain, don't post untill they reply. Lets get all the cards down before we commit to an All In Please, LSB. Like Doctor H said, your smart. You should realize I'm the real shrink. 1. His reasons for protecting you were that you "weren't confirmed" 2. If he gets me killed, he can just yazuka a random person since there will be no other person. At first I was perplexed why he fake claimed so early, but now I understand that now there will be no other person to stop him from yazuking. | ||
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Pandain
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1.Keeps suggesting you could be fake, while saying he protected himself because he didn't believe you, and he still doesn't believe you now, yet he "protected LSB second night." 2.He immediately claims he's shrink, which suggests either 1.He's VERY VERY VERY VERY rash. or 2.He's thought this out already, and knows what to do(try to get me lynched) You tracked me night one, that lends credence to me. What does Glasse have? His word? | ||
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On November 16 2010 07:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm feeling Glasse/Kenpachi right now as the scumteam. Dr. H accuses him, glasse accuses back and tries to make Dr. H seem less credible. On November 16 2010 10:25 Glasse wrote: i think drh is trying much harder than i've ever seen him which makes me believe hes trying to hide something. And yes, I want glasse to respond to all this. I'll do an analysis hopefully after I get back from this political group thingamabobber, but until then I'll just be pointing out inconsitincies/proofs. | ||
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On November 18 2010 06:43 LSB wrote: Pandain please let it be, I have a way of figuring this out All I need is Coag and KtheZ to claim alright... | ||
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For case 2, I'm not lying, and I've basically shown that Glasse is lying(He hasn't even responded to that.). For case 3, there is a 33% chance of winning if we lynch Coag. You're saying I have to accurately guess who he will mind control. Leaving it up to that should not be done. Lynching Glasse is safer in that point. So really, it comes down to me vs. Glasse again. And I've already basically shown why Glasse is lying, and how he has already screwed up. So your right, either me and coag are mafia, or glasse is the sole mafia remaining. And I agree with the dead Dr. H that its glasse/kenpachi. Lynching Glasse is actually better. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:31 KtheZ wrote: Hey guys, I'd like to bring the town's attention to the fact that LSB may be mafia. So this is how the last night went: Claims: Pandain protected himself that night. LSB says kenpachi visited artanis and pandain. Coag claims doctor, protected LSB. Glasse = shrink, saved LSB night 2. Now here is the interesting part. So we have a disreptancy between Glasse and Pandain's claims. Now what is extremely feasibly possible is that Glasse is yakuza, and kenpachi actually MCed LSB. What has made me notice this POSSIBILITY is that we cannot be sure LSB is actually still one of us. What we need to know is if pandain and/or glasse are telling the truth. So heres how I think we should go. Lynch pandain. Then, we know if glasse really is the shrink or not. If pandain flips blue, we immediately lynch Glasse and LSB. If pandain flips red, artanis and glasse are confirmed. In LSB's post above me, it is not noted that he may have been converted, instead of pandain. I think that the best course of action is to lynch pandain. If he flips blue, we immediately take out glasse/LSB. If he flips red, we got rid of one of the reds, and we have 1 less person to worry about, as well as buying ourselves much more time to find the second red. ##Vote: Pandain Sorry dude, but if ur town know that your death was not in vain. impossible. Doctor would have had to protect glasse for that to work. And Coag would therefore have to be lying. And in that scenario there would be 3 mafia(coag, lsb,glasse) when only two could be possibe. | ||
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For example, I've shown that really the only two-three cases are either 1.Me and Coag are mafia(again, you did bring up he voted me pretty darn quick.) 2.Glasse is mafia alone or even 3.Glasse and Coag are mafia(coag protected glasse, glasse MCED him.) Lynching Glasse is the safest choice in all of those, especially when you start to use your noggin  . | ||
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at least give chance for discussion. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:46 LSB wrote: Okay to clear things up: Glasse: Thank you for voting Coagulation KtheZ: If you doub me, see this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168344¤tpage=22#435 Coagulation: Sorry for lynching you, but as you can see, it's the best action for the town. If you would vote for yourself, that would be great. Pandain: Remember case 1. Don't discount that. But case one assumes they won't mind control anyone. Its me or glasse guys. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:48 Glasse wrote: pandain if i could reach through my fucking screen and choke you i would this is making me angry ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff PROVE why i would be mafia, mr. fake flash. all you are saying right now isnt really proving anything, just trying to evade the fact that lsb obviously fucking proved you are mafia... rofl keep saying blank statements without backing them up. Just helps me more  You've faked claimed poorly. 1.The Real shrink would never roleclaim so fast, knowing how important it is. 2. There was no reason not to protect LSB night 1 FOR YORU REASON(LSB is not confirmed) Since he was confirmed(no other tracker.) 3.There was no reason to say the Doctor should RNG, since mafia will probably do that as well(yeah right.) | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:49 LSB wrote: Okay, to explain Case 1 a bit more to you. Case one Night two: Coagulation saves Glasse Glasse converts Coagulation Kenpachi converts Pandain Mafia hits Artanis[Xp] What happens: Coagulation is converted. Glasse is still alive. See? Exactly. This assumes Glasse is mafia. Case 3, assumes glasse is mafia. The Subsection of case 3 (with a 33% win rate) is lynching coag first, when lynching glasse first is the better choice. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:52 LSB wrote: Pandain. If you want analysis. This is why. Yesterday I defended two people. You and Coagulation. The only reason why Doctor H backed off from attacking you two was because I hinted that I tracked them. The mafia knows this two. But for some reason, out of you and coagulation, they choose to try to convert you. This is because Coagulation was mafia. The Mafia knew that I didn't immediately come to the town and say I found a mafia. So they knew that I tracked you. That's why they tried to convert you. Wait what. explain this more. I'm confused. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:53 LSB wrote: 2. Actually there is every reason why not to protect me night 1. The town plan was to protect me. So the mafia wouldn't hit me. Therefore if glasse choose to protect someone else, he could basically be protecting two people. But his reason for not protecting you was that you "were not confirmed." So that point is mute. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:53 Glasse wrote: dude you have played with me in 2 games before, you know i roleclaim quickly without really thinking about it. i didnt think they'd shrink lsb night 1 since he was somewhat confirmed and should be protected, so i thought saving my life if they hit me would be better for the town why shouldnt he rng? mafia probably rng'd as well, nobody knew shit almost Now your changing your reasoning, you said he wasn't confirmed. And why in the world would mafia RNG. | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:54 LSB wrote: EDIT Subsection 2 is a 100% of loosing if we lynch glasse first. I'm not accepting that. Especially with your scummy analysis. I've even defended glasse a bit after facepalming at your accusations of him. Subsection 2 of section 3, fyi. | ||
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Playiing some mega mind games over there haha | ||
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On November 18 2010 10:57 Glasse wrote: wait i changed my reasoning? he wasnt confirmed. confirmed = 100%. there was still a chance the real detective didnt want to fall in the mafia trap. i feel like we are just going around in circle now because you can't bring anything up other than little meaningless changes(which are actually just different wording) in my arguments Again, LSB WAS 100% confirmed. Name one instance he could not be. | ||
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On November 18 2010 11:05 Glasse wrote: lets say he claimed, the real stork didnt want to claim incase he would fall in a mafia trap, he could have been mafia Why would the real stork not claim? We would have gotten a mafia. | ||
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On November 18 2010 11:05 LSB wrote: Pandain, you have much to learn .Check out DoctorH's recent game if you want to figure out meta and other stuff. Do you really think Glasse/kenpachi would have thought of that? Or even coag/kenpachi? | ||
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On November 18 2010 11:08 LSB wrote: Glasse's play in Insane was perfect. Town wouldn't lynch him Mafia wouldn't waste a kill on him Not to be rude, and sure I gues his play fit that, but I don't think that suggests a higher learning in the ways of mafia, especially in meta. Being able to be annoying(no offense, it was funny sometimes!) =/= Being amazing at mafia. | ||
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How' bout I just make a big post later listing all the reasons why I think I can sufficently prove yoru fake, and then you can attempt to argue against them. I'll do it tommorow since its roughly 9:15 pm here. | ||
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Would you rather have a chance at instant victory and instant loss? Or leave it to pure chance? That's why I'm favoring just settling it between me and Glasse, and using analysis to decide between them, rather than the wifom I would have to use if we lynch Coag. | ||
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On November 18 2010 11:18 Pandain wrote: I'll respond to this LSB. And sure, I'm even thinking about lynching coag. Would you rather have a chance at instant victory and instant loss? Or leave it to pure chance? That's why I'm favoring just settling it between me and Glasse, and using analysis to decide between them, rather than the wifom I would have to use if we lynch Coag. | ||
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:p | ||
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On November 18 2010 11:32 Glasse wrote: your plan is flawed already, i can't even mc. because i'm flash http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est Saying it does not make it so. But I'll go with you LSB. ##Vote Coagulation | ||
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Actually, I'm going to wait until at least when I wake up. I still need to think about it and we should use up all of our time anyway. | ||
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Let's think about it: Dr. H is dead, Artanis is dead, it's going to be between you and me LSB. Now they're most likely NOT going to hit you since you are most likely to get shrink protection. So they go for me. So that's why I did that. | ||
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And you just edited coag. | ||
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It could be glasse, it could be me. It comes down to what it shoudl be, cold hard analysis. I suggest we all wait so then mafia can't easily just get a majority or something. Decon how are you going to end day? Whole 48 hours? Or what? | ||
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Summary: glasse has not played pro town this game. He has offered poor advice, has played scummily, made contradictions, and says to have performed actions which simply do not make sense. Dr. H was right when he pinned Glasse/kenpachi as the mafia team. I urge you to read this post, and not just skim it, as I bring up very good points here. His Posts: On November 12 2010 21:01 Glasse wrote: Sup, i'm finally unbanned (longest 2 days ever) I feel like the doctor and the other thing that can protect shouldnt roleclaim. Not yet at least :3 So many bad things can happen :3 First post and it already bodes ill for him. Note his relunctance to roleclaim. Now, its obvious he feels that doctors/shrinks shouldn't roleclaim, because bad things can happen. Yet he claims he's shrink almost immediately after I reveal I'm shrink. That doesn't add up. Also note he calls shrink "that other thing." doesn't he know the role if he is it? On November 13 2010 00:42 Glasse wrote: wait so if i get this right, mafia gets a free kp on night 1 and basically the medic/shrink/whatever will have to randomly guess who to protect? did i get that wrong? sounds kinda silly Clarifies rules. On November 13 2010 05:48 Glasse wrote: what if that's what he want to he can convert, not die and then mafia has 3 ppl after night 1. :3 typing with this new keyboard feels so awesome happy cat is happy look at him! :3 First post against LSB(who has been revealed Town tracker.) Says that he could just be really a mafia who fake claimed tracker(despite the fact if the real tracker claimed that plan would be ruined.) So this statement is very leaning towards anti town, especially since LSB has already said he's confirmed because no other tracker has claimed. Ends with spam. On November 13 2010 05:55 Glasse wrote: i played 2 games total you can't really base yourself on that Later says its obvious he always role claims fast, which contradicts as mentioned previously and with this statement. On November 13 2010 11:56 Glasse wrote: i feel like this is going nowhere right now :3 we need to do stuff if we wanna stop them from convincing everyone to touch childrens inapropriately And this doesn't help :/ On November 14 2010 02:43 Glasse wrote: i'd suggest that the shrink guy protects himself for the first night :3 doctor can rng as the mafia pick will probably be random as well VERY ANTI TOWN. First, as already noted, shrink had to have protected LSB because he was confirmed, and tracker. Note that Glasse's claimed reason for not protecting LSB was that "he was not confirmed." Going further, why would Glasse protect himself? Did he really think he was in danger of being MCed? Furthormore, he now claims this proves he DID protect himself night one. However, all it really proves is that he has been anti town in his "shrink" actions. So that doesn't even add up. In addition having the doctor rng was a very bad idea. Mafia, as long as their not dumb, will never rng. Kills always have a purpose. Even worse, having the doctor RNG was even worse(doesn't protect LSB[wtf], can protect mafia, doesn't use noggin). On November 15 2010 01:15 Glasse wrote: i wonder if mafia will try to hit the more experienced ppl or maybe we should lynch the most experienced ppl because they can manipulate easier  Says to lynch the expierenced people.... On November 15 2010 10:18 Glasse wrote: can you really vote for no one? also i would not do that, it makes it much easier to manipulate a vote for mafia if over half of the town doesnt even vote says he is against not voting. On November 15 2010 21:05 Glasse wrote: what? where? Also coag, you're asking for it.. i was planning on being quiet but helpful, now i must unleash the derp. Also, going to vote for a lurker ##Vote: Kenpachi Can we get an official vote count? Goes against previous statement, votes for Kenpachi. Now, this may seem very "pro town" at first, seeing as kenpachi later turned out to be scum. But let's go in detail about this vote, and why in reality it put kenpachi in no danger. At that time, that was the very first vote for kenpachi. THE VERY FIRST VOTE. The votes to lynch no one was ahead by two votes, and doctor h had two votes. I was the only one who had to vote. Mafia go against other mafia all the time to lend town cred for later stages of the game. Ace did it hardcore against me in insane mafia, as well as RoL. Rather than take the actions at face value, what you have to do is go beyond and see what they really meant. As in, did they have any true effect? This vote, at that time, did not. It was merely giving him "brownie points" when really kenpachi was in no real danger. Now, glasse never posted after this vote. I think it's a safe assumption to assume he did not come back until at least after I voted for kenpachi(which it was still safe for kenpachi.) Kenpachi was never in any real danger, therefore glasse's vote for him does not confirm him. On November 16 2010 10:10 Glasse wrote: Yea, because obviously me trying to get him lynched hes my teamate i can start spamming instead of posting constructive comments every once in a while if you want, i thought people were mad at my super cat powers in insane mafia... i just don't feel like letting everyone know my thoughts on EVERYTHING all the time... if it bothers you so much i'll do it Already adressed as glasse hardly tried to get kenpachi lynched. Says he doesn't want people to know what he's thinking(what). On November 16 2010 10:14 Glasse wrote: i just dont have anything important to say :3 SORRY! Apologizing for not contributing. Again, note that this is how I caught kenpachi(in addition to other things.) This just reeks of inherent guilt, apologizing for not contributing. On November 16 2010 10:25 Glasse wrote: i think drh is trying much harder than i've ever seen him which makes me believe hes trying to hide something. Now, this does mean something. What's happening right now? YM is dead, and he was going to either (in most liklihood) shoot kenpachi or Dr. H. Now, glasse finally comes in, and puts suscipcion on dr. h. So this actually DOES mean something. Also note dr. h was town. On November 16 2010 23:07 Glasse wrote: honestly i would've hit kenpachi :3 this sucks Alright, wtf. why didn't you say this before. Now, I now previously you were responding to how you felt about me vs dr. h, but seriously this kind of stuff is important. Also note this is AFTER Dr. H was already shot, so he can say whatever he says he "felt" really :/. On November 17 2010 23:41 Glasse wrote: wait kenpachi commited suicide but artanis isnt red now? YES someone got protected by flash! Yes, and it wasn't you. Note that this really just shows he's not flash, that that was just a spur of the moment decision to combat my claim as flash. Note that how would this work since he claims he protected LSB night two. Doesn't add up. On November 18 2010 04:34 Glasse wrote: we cant leave pandain alive, he could just sacrifice himself then we lose track of everything. Again, if he's flash couldn't he protect from the "evil pandain?" Also note he hasn't voted for me either, so he's saying and not doing. On November 18 2010 06:19 Glasse wrote: ok, i'm actually flash. pandain is a fucking liar rofl. kthez or coag are mafia Claims he's flash. On November 18 2010 06:20 Glasse wrote: i protected myself night 1 and lsb night 2. Now let's analyze these choices. Now, obviously protecting himself night one for the reasons he did was very anti town. And why would he protect LSB if he was still unsure of his alignment? In addition, why would he protect himself night one. 1.Did he really think mafia would try to sacrifice one of their own to get him?(you might be pretty decent but your not incognito or something) 2.Did he really think HE was more likely to get Mced than LSB, or even Artanis/Dr. H?(or i, but I'm not as amazing) These choices just don't fit. On November 18 2010 06:22 Glasse wrote: yea, kthez or coag maybe even lsb... his claim could be fake :3 crap This doesn't fit either. So he isn't sure of LSB's alignment even now(yet protected him the previous night), and thinks he found a mafia(me) because of what LSB(who he doesn't know is confirmed) says? Sorry if that's worded weird. But furthormore, LSB is obviously confirmed. On November 18 2010 06:23 Glasse wrote: facepalm, please dont believe him :3 who cares if i went against the town consensus, i thought i should protect myself until i know more and not chance having mafia get 3 because their sacrifice didnt actually die Thus begins his great "proof" of being shrink, that you guys shouldn't believe me. The second sentence, read it. "Who cares if I went against the town consensus". That is a VERY mafia-esque statement. going furthor, here he reveals he didn't protect LSB because he didn't think LSB was town(at the very least not neccesarily). Why would you have to ask this if your the real shrink? If you were real(and thus I fake), you would already know. On November 18 2010 10:24 Glasse wrote: well i made a list of possiblities :3 also i'm not lying pandain left night 1 so it means : Effort - drh *dead calm - artanis *dead clam - kthez sea - pandain (mafia) stork - lsb jaedong - youngmini *dead flash - glasse mafia 1 - kenpachi *dead mafia 2 - coag i fail to see how anything else can happen, since all roles that can go out are confirmed, pandain was medic and coag is mafia. unless coag lied and kthez is mafia, but i doubt it? :3 ##vote: coagulation Votes coag, but again obviously that doesn't really matterr since here he is now. On November 18 2010 10:33 Glasse wrote: ##unvote (for now so it doesnt end the day) Actually pro town, the first pro town thing. On November 18 2010 10:39 Glasse wrote: You are really pushing for me because you think i can't defend myself or something? 1. i didnt say he was fake, i said he could be. i realized he could be fake while typing the post where i said he could be... then he said no counter claim, which is right and makes sense, if the real tracker said it we would of owned a mafia early. what can happen is that medic protected sacrifice so there are actually 3 mafia, but game would be over already that way. he can't be mafia 2. i was reading the thread, people that are obvious liars and full of shit make me kinda mad so i had to claim quickly to exactly not let you use the argument "he thought about it for a while and decided to counter claim" i said drh was trying 2 hard because did you see those 10000 words posts? i felt like it was 2 much do an analysis if you want, you will point out random fake shit to try to prove me as red, but then i can easily deny all of those accusations, since i'm not red did i miss something? Here he elaborates on his story. Now says he didn't know if LSB WAS confirmed. But again, did he really think it was more likely that he would be MCEd than LSB??? Also says he claimed early so then other people wouldn't be like "well, he claimed late so..." when later he says that "you know I always roleclaim." On November 18 2010 10:53 Glasse wrote: dude you have played with me in 2 games before, you know i roleclaim quickly without really thinking about it. i didnt think they'd shrink lsb night 1 since he was somewhat confirmed and should be protected, so i thought saving my life if they hit me would be better for the town why shouldnt he rng? mafia probably rng'd as well, nobody knew shit almost Here he says he roleclaimed because he's just like that. Also now says that he was indeed doing what LSB said glasse was probably, that he was just being "uber meta". So now its a new reason. Also how would you know if mafia wouldn't know fadoodle? On November 18 2010 10:57 Glasse wrote: wait i changed my reasoning? he wasnt confirmed. confirmed = 100%. there was still a chance the real detective didnt want to fall in the mafia trap. i feel like we are just going around in circle now because you can't bring anything up other than little meaningless changes(which are actually just different wording) in my arguments Again, yes he was. Real tracker would've claimed immediately. On November 18 2010 11:05 Glasse wrote: lets say he claimed, the real stork didnt want to claim incase he would fall in a mafia trap, he could have been mafia Why would anyone not claim because of this? On November 18 2010 11:14 Glasse wrote: i said why i didnt protect him before, and it was because there was a chance he was not real stork, which is true, and if he was, he would probably not be targetted ANYWAY. you can't deny that unless you use dumb flawed logic, which you are trying to do, because you are desperate. Again, previously he said he only did it because "lsb was not confirmed." And then he's also been pushing to lynch coag(well, really LSB was.) But here's where I think it really was just a plan for glasse to get to late stage. Let's see the scenario: Coag(mafia) Glasse(mafia) Pandain LSB KtheZ Now, he could've done one of two things. 1.Push to get me lynched. But never voted for me. And this would be hard to do since I got the truth on my side. 2.Get Coag lynched, hit LSB. Now he is "basically confirmed" and can probably get me lynched. This is alot like what happened with me in insane mafia. But note this analysis, how it shows otherwise. This option was actually the smart one to do. Now, let's see coag's performance here. On November 18 2010 12:34 Coagulation wrote: ok you guys i cant fucking believe glasse is manipulating the shit out of this and you guys are all hook line and sinker to buy his bullshit. fuck that. dont fucking let him push this bullshit on me. he has been hiding all fucking game not contributing a fucking thing to town. now all of a sudden he comes out and decides to fucking push a lynch on me. yeah sure fucking thing glasse. sorry to disappoint you buddy but your the one thats scum not me. Does this really sound sincere? To me it sounds setup. Obviously this is wifom but informed wifom. On November 18 2010 12:51 Glasse wrote: medic is pandain and pandain is mafia, i hate those arguments when the 2 mafia are teaming up against me because i cant prove i'm flash other than hoping people dont believe mafia's flawed logic wait i just realized something notice how both of our suspects are teaming up on me. Tries to link me and coag when I pointed out coag was 100% mafia(before he was killed, so why would i do that if we were scum buddies.) | ||
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And if you had read my post you would see why your vote for coag doesn't confirm you. Wait, you said "i did not read your post" then talk about my post? dude, you can't just say "I'm the real flash" and expect to be believed. Learn that next time when playing mafia. And LSB said nothing about me besides when he tracked me, which all it does really is confirm I'm shrink. Don't make stuff up. | ||
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When would you ever? | ||
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On November 19 2010 06:10 Glasse wrote: i'm in a good position right now, where i'm actually telling the truth so i don't need to lie and not quote part of posts that are most important to prove i'm blue also you completely avoided the fact that i left for roughly 3h30 and then came back and posted, which was after my class i feel like that in itself is a good enough point that proves i can't have posted... i can show you my schedule if you want... What are you talking about for the second sentence. Furthormore, I'm saying when would you ever feel the need to twist scummy posts your way? I'm saying that you basically said that you would if the situation were different(lsb had tracked you for instance.) Furthormore, in response to your above post(not quoted), I AM proving that I'm the real shrink. You're not, just saying "believe meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and wifommmmmmmmm" | ||
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On November 19 2010 06:18 Glasse wrote: you can't prove shit, because i'm flash and i suck at arguments also : first post when i get back, thats what i meant you are just twisting my words because i word stuff differently a lot because i'm french and my english isnt perfect, ill read your post and answer to everything then i guess if you really want to be fucking annoying about it "I can't argue, but trust me" is not a valid argument." You are even more likely than me to be mafia because 1.Lynching Coag was the smart option for mafia 2.Why would coag have voted me SO fast. And yes, answer to everything. I'm sorry if I'm being confusing, but if you ever need just ask for clarification. I understand not everyone on TL speaks English as a first language. Also, your first post when you got back from what? | ||
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Basically that argument relies to wifomm, which is not a good basis for argument. | ||
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Why Glasse's claim of shrink does not fit(Also an Analysis of his posts) Summary: glasse has not played pro town this game. He has offered poor advice, has played scummily, made contradictions, and says to have performed actions which simply do not make sense. Dr. H was right when he pinned Glasse/kenpachi as the mafia team. I urge you to read this post, and not just skim it, as I bring up very good points here. His Posts: [QUOTE]On November 12 2010 21:01 Glasse wrote: Sup, i'm finally unbanned (longest 2 days ever) I feel like the doctor and the other thing that can protect shouldnt roleclaim. Not yet at least :3 So many bad things can happen :3[/QUOTE] First post and it already bodes ill for him. Note his relunctance to roleclaim. Now, its obvious he feels that doctors/shrinks shouldn't roleclaim, because bad things can happen. Yet he claims he's shrink almost immediately after I reveal I'm shrink. That doesn't add up. Also note he calls shrink "that other thing." doesn't he know the role if he is it? Obviously i fucking instantly roleclaimed, i felt like the fact that everyone thought he was confirmed because no one counter claimed would of worked my way, i instantly posted when i saw your comment because i was excited we confirmed a mafia member. Also, an easy way to make people think i'm not flash is to not even know how to call it So then 1.Why would you thought another person wouldn't have claimed when LSB did(thus confirming him 2.But here you said they shouldn't, you at the very least showed strong relunctance to roleclaim. But merely one minute later you roleclaim, showing no hesitation. [QUOTE]On November 13 2010 00:42 Glasse wrote: wait so if i get this right, mafia gets a free kp on night 1 and basically the medic/shrink/whatever will have to randomly guess who to protect? did i get that wrong? sounds kinda silly[/QUOTE] Clarifies rules. [QUOTE]On November 13 2010 05:48 Glasse wrote: what if that's what he want to he can convert, not die and then mafia has 3 ppl after night 1. :3 typing with this new keyboard feels so awesome happy cat is happy look at him! :3[/QUOTE] First post against LSB(who has been revealed Town tracker.) Says that he could just be really a mafia who fake claimed tracker(despite the fact if the real tracker claimed that plan would be ruined.) So this statement is very leaning towards anti town, especially since LSB has already said he's confirmed because no other tracker has claimed. Ends with spam. So you are avoiding my whole argument i did with you a couple pages ago to point this out AGAIN because it can help you in a way. No, he was not 100% confirmed and i explained why before. If the real detective didnt want to claim yet incase he would die and/or cause chaos to town I'm not avoiding your argument. I'm pointint out inconsitincies. Like here you disagree with the previous post. In the case where you were a real shrink, why would you immediately claim if you caught a fake claim(hypothetical me), yet think that this person wouldn't? And why would it matter if he dies if he caught a mafia [QUOTE]On November 13 2010 05:55 Glasse wrote: [QUOTE]On November 12 2010 12:09 Coagulation wrote: 5. Glasse Posting quality and town contribution fluctuates based on his roles he receives if hes got a role hes not happy with hes pretty bad if hes got a decent role he contributes alot [/QUOTE] i played 2 games total you can't really base yourself on that[/QUOTE] Later says its obvious he always role claims fast, which contradicts as mentioned previously and with this statement. i like how you only remember things that helps you try to down me lol. the way i post and myself roleclaiming fast don't really mean the same thing, Also i wanted to be jaedong, fuck flash :3 of course i do, because then I can find mafia. [QUOTE]On November 13 2010 11:56 Glasse wrote: i feel like this is going nowhere right now :3 we need to do stuff if we wanna stop them from convincing everyone to touch childrens inapropriately[/QUOTE] And this doesn't help :/ [QUOTE]On November 14 2010 02:43 Glasse wrote: i'd suggest that the shrink guy protects himself for the first night :3 doctor can rng as the mafia pick will probably be random as well[/QUOTE] VERY ANTI TOWN. First, as already noted, shrink had to have protected LSB because he was confirmed, and tracker. Note that Glasse's claimed reason for not protecting LSB was that "he was not confirmed." Going further, why would Glasse protect himself? Did he really think he was in danger of being MCed? Furthormore, he now claims this proves he DID protect himself night one. However, all it really proves is that he has been anti town in his "shrink" actions. So that doesn't even add up. In addition having the doctor rng was a very bad idea. Mafia, as long as their not dumb, will never rng. Kills always have a purpose. Even worse, having the doctor RNG was even worse(doesn't protect LSB[wtf], can protect mafia, doesn't use noggin). bringing this up again, jesus fucking christ, i explained it earlier in my answers. he was not 100% confirmed, i was not necessarily in danger of getting mc'd i just thought it'd be a better choice to keep myself as town instead of another random person that could have ended up being mafia as well. Also you really like to press on that "rng is dumb for doctor" because you really thought about it AS YOU WERE THE DOCTOR AT THAT POINT and disagree with me on that point\ Same point as above. But again, why would you be in danger of being Mced? And if you protected a mafia, nothing bad would happen. And you weren't going to die(unless mafia were extra weird for some reason), so why would you protect yourself? I don't have to be doctor to now that a doctor rnging his protection is pretty anti town. [QUOTE]On November 15 2010 01:15 Glasse wrote: i wonder if mafia will try to hit the more experienced ppl or maybe we should lynch the most experienced ppl because they can manipulate easier [/QUOTE]Says to lynch the expierenced people.... yea, the reason why i said it is true, i wouldnt want to lynch you early because your abilities to analyse suck I caught kenpachi...caught you [QUOTE]On November 15 2010 10:18 Glasse wrote: can you really vote for no one? also i would not do that, it makes it much easier to manipulate a vote for mafia if over half of the town doesnt even vote[/QUOTE] says he is against not voting. of course, 2 kills per mafia a night is fucking dangerous, i'd rather take a chance and maybe catch one. and if you look, i voted kenpachi which ended up being an actual mafia This wasn't accusing you actually lol. This was actually something pro town that you did! [QUOTE]On November 15 2010 21:05 Glasse wrote: [QUOTE]On November 15 2010 12:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote: [QUOTE]On November 15 2010 12:17 Pandain wrote: I knew I would regret it. Yet now if i withdraw vote I look scummy But again, who else do you think is a good lynch?[/QUOTE] well you look like scum to me coagulation is our worst player i don't trust glasse's inactivity and iirc he made a kinda bad scummy post on me but that could have been in kingmaker, i don't exactly remember[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On November 15 2010 12:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: glasse wasn't even in kingmaker so it was in this game[/QUOTE] what? where? Also coag, you're asking for it.. i was planning on being quiet but helpful, now i must unleash the derp. Also, going to vote for a lurker ##Vote: Kenpachi Can we get an official vote count?[/QUOTE] Goes against previous statement, votes for Kenpachi. Now, this may seem very "pro town" at first, seeing as kenpachi later turned out to be scum. But let's go in detail about this vote, and why in reality it put kenpachi in no danger. At that time, that was the very first vote for kenpachi. THE VERY FIRST VOTE. The votes to lynch no one was ahead by two votes, and doctor h had two votes. I was the only one who had to vote. Mafia go against other mafia all the time to lend town cred for later stages of the game. Ace did it hardcore against me in insane mafia, as well as RoL. Rather than take the actions at face value, what you have to do is go beyond and see what they really meant. As in, did they have any true effect? This vote, at that time, did not. It was merely giving him "brownie points" when really kenpachi was in no real danger. Now, glasse never posted after this vote. I think it's a safe assumption to assume he did not come back until at least after I voted for kenpachi(which it was still safe for kenpachi.) Kenpachi was never in any real danger, therefore glasse's vote for him does not confirm him. wait how the fuck am i going against my previous statement, i was AGAINST voting for no one. Also 21h KST is around when i usually leave for college i think, so thats why i came back later maybe he wasnt in real danger, that's true, but he could have been as i left after i voted and it could have ended badly My bad, I concede. Still, that really wasn't a main point. Now respond to the other 10 contradictions. Now your appealing to speculation, "well...maybe..." is common argument for scum when their lying. [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 10:10 Glasse wrote: [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 07:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm feeling Glasse/Kenpachi right now as the scumteam.[/QUOTE] Yea, because obviously me trying to get him lynched hes my teamate [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 07:27 LSB wrote: Youngminii, please shoot glasse or Kenpachi. They're kinof inactive.[/QUOTE] i can start spamming instead of posting constructive comments every once in a while if you want, i thought people were mad at my super cat powers in insane mafia... i just don't feel like letting everyone know my thoughts on EVERYTHING all the time... if it bothers you so much i'll do it[/QUOTE] Already adressed as glasse hardly tried to get kenpachi lynched. Says he doesn't want people to know what he's thinking(what). i thought what drh said in insane mafia was true, telling everything you know to everyone can often harm the town more than it can help But not at all? [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 10:14 Glasse wrote: i just dont have anything important to say :3 SORRY![/QUOTE] Apologizing for not contributing. Again, note that this is how I caught kenpachi(in addition to other things.) This just reeks of inherent guilt, apologizing for not contributing. yea, i felt bad for not helping the town, if you really thought what you just said is true you would have said it earlier, not now where you desperatly need to prove i'm mafia to get your mafia win. I WONT FUCKING LET YOU WIN TWICE IN A ROW and if i was mafia you could be 100% sure i would have fucking killed you night 1 because i hate you Again, if you felt bad why didn't you help? And what are you talking about, this is the first time I'm really analyzing you, and trust me, town is gonna win this one. [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 10:25 Glasse wrote: [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 10:22 LSB wrote: What do you think of the Pandain/Doctor H argument?[/QUOTE] i think drh is trying much harder than i've ever seen him which makes me believe hes trying to hide something. [/QUOTE] Now, this does mean something. What's happening right now? YM is dead, and he was going to either (in most liklihood) shoot kenpachi or Dr. H. Now, glasse finally comes in, and puts suscipcion on dr. h. So this actually DOES mean something. Also note dr. h was town. yea, i dont remember drh posting posts as big as this one before to prove a point that could have been proven in a much shorter way, i thought he was trying to hide something, which i also explained later Because by posting alot, your hiding something. I see. *sacrcasm* [QUOTE]On November 16 2010 23:07 Glasse wrote: honestly i would've hit kenpachi :3 this sucks[/QUOTE] Alright, wtf. why didn't you say this before. Now, I now previously you were responding to how you felt about me vs dr. h, but seriously this kind of stuff is important. Also note this is AFTER Dr. H was already shot, so he can say whatever he says he "felt" really :/. what i said about drh wasnt a fucking accusation, it was a suspicion, my vote was still on kenpachi because he was lurking way 2 much Of course, why would you outright accuse him. You can be scum and lay suscipcion on someone without actually accusing them. Stop taking my points, and taking them to the extreme so their not true. And btw this was after YM was already lynched, so kenpachi vote didn't matter [QUOTE]On November 17 2010 23:41 Glasse wrote: wait kenpachi commited suicide but artanis isnt red now? YES someone got protected by flash![/QUOTE] Yes, and it wasn't you. Note that this really just shows he's not flash, that that was just a spur of the moment decision to combat my claim as flash. Note that how would this work since he claims he protected LSB night two. Doesn't add up. nope, no one was protected by flash, as it was also explained to me later, lsb found out that you were visited. i thought kenpachi had suicided on lsb at first, so i was really fucking happy. There's no way to prove whether or not this is true so I'll leave it at that. [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 04:34 Glasse wrote: we cant leave pandain alive, he could just sacrifice himself then we lose track of everything.[/QUOTE] Again, if he's flash couldn't he protect from the "evil pandain?" Also note he hasn't voted for me either, so he's saying and not doing. herp derp durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr i don't have 100% chance to pick the same target as mafia with my shrink Again, taking it to the extreme. If you were telling the truth, why not just have LSB track me, and if I was mafia, you could see who i Mced. [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:19 Glasse wrote: ok, i'm actually flash. pandain is a fucking liar rofl. kthez or coag are mafia[/QUOTE] Claims he's flash. [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:20 Glasse wrote: i protected myself night 1 and lsb night 2.[/QUOTE] Now let's analyze these choices. Now, obviously protecting himself night one for the reasons he did was very anti town. And why would he protect LSB if he was still unsure of his alignment? In addition, why would he protect himself night one. 1.Did he really think mafia would try to sacrifice one of their own to get him?(you might be pretty decent but your not incognito or something) 2.Did he really think HE was more likely to get Mced than LSB, or even Artanis/Dr. H?(or i, but I'm not as amazing) These choices just don't fit. night 1 wasnt anti town, i explained it many times i realize stuff while im typing a post and i realized lsb still wasnt 100% and i had protected him, which could've been bad oh and about night 2, i really thought about shrinking artanis instead of lsb, because they are both good and i ended up picking lsb It was anti town. Respond to the core argument, you were in no danger, so why would you protect yourself. And now you admit your second protection was bad(even though it was actually good since LSB WAS confirmed, see earlier. The last sentence is irrelevant. [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:22 Glasse wrote: [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:20 Pandain wrote: [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:19 Glasse wrote: ok, i'm actually flash. pandain is a fucking liar rofl. kthez or coag are mafia[/QUOTE] And we caught the second mafia. [/QUOTE] yea, kthez or coag maybe even lsb... his claim could be fake :3 crap[/QUOTE] This doesn't fit either. So he isn't sure of LSB's alignment even now(yet protected him the previous night), and thinks he found a mafia(me) because of what LSB(who he doesn't know is confirmed) says? Sorry if that's worded weird. But furthormore, LSB is obviously confirmed. o hai i just answered this, sometimes i realize stuff while im posting, or right after a bit after i also realized there was no way he wasnt detective Respond above. [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:23 Glasse wrote: facepalm, please dont believe him :3 who cares if i went against the town consensus, i thought i should protect myself until i know more and not chance having mafia get 3 because their sacrifice didnt actually die[/QUOTE] Thus begins his great "proof" of being shrink, that you guys shouldn't believe me. The second sentence, read it. "Who cares if I went against the town consensus". That is a VERY mafia-esque statement. going furthor, here he reveals he didn't protect LSB because he didn't think LSB was town(at the very least not neccesarily). [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 08:42 Glasse wrote: [QUOTE]On November 18 2010 06:30 LSB wrote: -maintains radio silence- Keep a clean thread for the final day please (I tracked Pandain)[/QUOTE] (did he leave his house?)[/QUOTE] Why would you have to ask this if your the real shrink? If you were real(and thus I fake), you would already know. because if you didnt leave your house, you were bulletproof (which kthez is) and if you did leave, you were doctor (and you are), at that point i was making my list that i posted shortly after Would it matter if I was mafia? | ||
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On November 19 2010 08:51 Glasse wrote: are you reading kthez? lets end this and win :3 ##vote pandain do you see what he's doing? He doesn't want to keep debate going, he wants you to vote quickly before you can reason. for the love of god wait this whole thing out | ||
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On November 19 2010 07:47 KtheZ wrote: I'm almost 100% sure pandain is mafia, and there is basically nothing he can do to change my mind. Since LSB was telling the truth, it is so, SO obvious that pandain is mafia. How does that prove I'm mafia? Again, I'm shrink. Because I claimed, Glasse had to counter claim. But he's been making so many contradictions/fallacies that its easy to point out, such as: 1.protecting himself when he was in no danger 2.lack of content on issues non relating to him(why should he care otherwise, he just wants town to kill each other) 3.many verbal slip ups 4.Logical fallacies used to create distrust -"LSB Isn't confirmed"-says its because people might be scared to counter roleclaim. but again, if he's telling the truth, he claimed almost immediately, so contradiction here. -Dr. H is hiding something by making large posts Seriously it's pretty obvious. Don't give in to the bandwagon. In no way does LSB incriminate me. Nothing he has said incriminates me. | ||
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Don't be retarded. That's strong language, and I mean it. Right now its retarded to vote so easily, and again, without even giving me a chance. | ||
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Because he tracked kenpachi to me? BUT IM FRICKIN SHRINK, WHICH IS WHY WHEN LSB TRACKED ME I VISITED HIM, LIKE SHRINKS WERE SUPPOSED TO but of course glasse didn't, because "lsb wasn't confirmed(wtf)". And of course glasse protected him night two , which he has even admitted now was a bad move. Seriously, use reason guys. Wtf. | ||
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On November 19 2010 09:55 KtheZ wrote: Kenpachi was tracked to you when he committed suicide. Its you. I protected myself. I'm shrink. I survived. | ||
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On November 19 2010 07:47 KtheZ wrote: I'm almost 100% sure pandain is mafia, and there is basically nothing he can do to change my mind. Since LSB was telling the truth, it is so, SO obvious that pandain is mafia. Seriously wtf is this. You're not open at all? Seriously? Do you realize that glasse has not done any analysis on me. That he has not laid any reasons why I'm mafia(I'm still waiting) While I have, and you know what his defense is? "I just played poorly" "wifom wifom wifom" "I'm flash, so your lying, because I'm flash." HE HAS NO REASONS There's a point when there's valid defense, and then there's a point where its just obvious he's trying to find any way out. He claims his vote for kenpachi proves his innocence, when really kenpachi was never in any danger. And now, by lynching coag, he somehow has proven(BUT HASNT) that I'm mafia. BUT ALL IT PROVES IS THAT GLASSE IS MAFIA. Why the frick would coag vote me so fast anyway if we were scumbuddies? Why would I say he was 100% mafia before he died? If you look, this just doesn't add up. And I'm frickin tired of this. | ||
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i need to go calm down. I want your reasons why you think I'm mafia, any reasons at all. I haven't heard any. | ||
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So, I'll just ask this simple question. Why am I more likely mafia than Glasse? | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:20 Glasse wrote: wait pandain are you ignoring the 100% proof that i posted earlier that points at you? just vote for someone so this game can end. you're trapped stop spouting random bs and back it up. I'm calling you out now, hard. Lay out here, right now, why I'm "100% proof mafia" I gurantee you'll fail. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:22 Glasse wrote: Of course. Straight out of ace's scum guide. "It's not about what the truth is, its what you can make people believe". used by caller in his fake role, used by me and ace in insane mafia, and used by you now. you converted coag. coag protected you ? Doesn't apply because you're mafia. Next? | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:22 Glasse wrote: Of course. Straight out of ace's scum guide. "It's not about what the truth is, its what you can make people believe". used by caller in his fake role, used by me and ace in insane mafia, and used by you now. you converted coag. coag protected you doesn't apply therefore ? red for response Next? | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:27 KtheZ wrote: You have a major fallacy in your arguement. If kenpachi had tried to convert you and you protected yourself, OBVIOUSLY there would be one mafia left. Since we lynched coag and one mafia IS left, its obviously you. ITS FRICKIN GLASSE | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:28 Glasse wrote: ace has a scum guide? lets see, i started as mafia, i converted coag, that means coag was medic, but he wasnt because he wasnt the mafia sea when he died, the only possibility left is that you are medic and i'm flash, while you got converted. i don't need to argue with you because you can't deny my logic "I don't need to argue with you because my logic is undeniable" except its fucking not. Seriously, its like I'm having to convince two mafia to vote their fellow mafia. wtf is this. Coag was doctor, haven't you realized that? | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:31 Glasse wrote: It clearly said coagulation the yazuka and not coagulation the yazuka medic and its true, i don't need to argue with you because anything you can pull out of your ass will be denyable It doesn't say if its yazuka or yazuka medic.... There, your lies are now revealed. KtheZ, there is no way to tell who's mafia between me and glasse except through cold hard analysis. And I will repeat, there is nothing on me. While everything is on glasse. Glasse has just been making up stuff, leaving out information, and previous actions pin him as scum. | ||
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Isn't it obvious he just can't respond? Hell, he hasn't even responded to my response to his "defense" which was hardly one. | ||
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Or when he keeps on claiming I'm "confirmed mafia" using fake situations. Or when he continously claims he doesn't want to respond to my arguments because "they are bad", yet really hasn't said anything on me and its obvious he just doesn't want to get trapped further. Or the fact he keeps spouting I'm "confirmed mafia" WHEN THERE IS NO REALLY NO 100% WAY OF FINDING THAT OUT. Again, the only way to find out is through analysis. And I have nothing on me, while Glasse has everything on him. Coagulation would have gained nothing when he voted me so fast if we were scumbuddies. Glasse had everything to gain from voting coag. Glasse had nothing to lose when voting kenpachi. Glasse had everything to gain when laying suscipcion on dr. h when YM was deciding who to shoot Glasse had nothing to loose when he claimed Kenpachi should have been shot, especially when he claims after. I had nothing to gain from claiming coag was 100% mafia. Glasse has everything to lose by ending debate abrubtly. Glasse is mafia, realize it. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:37 Glasse wrote: If i was mafia i would of ended it by converting someone else last night because i would be one of the originals, which didnt happen since coag was the actual first mafia, as i previously said, and he died. Leaving me as flash and you, as mafia Except there was only a 50% chance you would succede since I could've stopped you. And again, repeating it doesn't make it any more true when its a lie. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:37 Glasse wrote: i'm not saying i dont need to argue because your arguments are bad, it's because my arguments are 100% undenyable, because you beat truth with lies when logic is involved keep at it, then. Why not let debate happen? Because you know your lying, and it will be revealed. Which is why i'm frickin astounded why kthez wants to decide so early. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:40 Glasse wrote: if you protected someone i would be dead... because you know.. its a sacrifice. once again, me flash, you mafia LOL Then we'd frickin win, cause you'd be dead. some logic, eh? | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:42 Glasse wrote: he's not retarded and he see through your fail arguments i guess. Kthez isnt dumb :3 aren't we debating right now? i'm pretty sure im easily denying anything you are saying right now Your not debating anymore it seems. Cause seriously, that's where the road ended. You can't deny that. Your lie has ended. So for the love of God, KtheZ, at least unvote me. I'm not even asking you to immediately vote glasse(that would also be retarded). I'm asking you to use your brain, and let debate happen. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:42 Glasse wrote: durrrrrrrrr if i'm the last mafia alive and i sacrifice on someone that was protected i would be dead, or either kthez or you would be mafia as well, where the game would've ended already it is logical no? except I'm flash, so there was a 50% chance i would protect that person, and stop the conversion. actually, I'm wrong(and so are you.) You couldn't have won, because LSB was still alive. It would still be 2v1, but LSB would've tracked me/you, and found out you were the real mafia. So that's why you had to kill him. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:46 Glasse wrote: you don't get it do you? mafia has sacrifice + kill from what it seems, so i would've kiled lsb and sacrificed on either you or kthez, leading to either my death and the end of mafia, or either of you 2 being mafia with me right now, making the game over, because of 2v1 votes Well then I'd still be right 50% chance you'd fail in conversion. So stop spouting you could've automatically won, just like you've been spouting all this crap. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:49 Glasse wrote: you realize failed conversion = sacrifice(sacrifice means death) of the mafia right? you are locked down and can't argue against it anymore, just claim mafia and end it Exactly. SO YOU'D DIE. MAFIA DEAD=WE WIN I still can't believe you can say this and have kthez believe it. | ||
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Just become more desperate and desperate | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:50 Glasse wrote: yea, so i would've been dead LAST NIGHT you are just herp derping right now because you can't think of anything else to try to bring me down LOL IF YOU DIE WE WIN KtheZ, do you see what he's fucking doing? He's saying he can die and still win. I swear if he wins I will kill myself. | ||
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KtheZ just frickin vote this guy. there's times when debate is good, and there's times when the debate on one side is saying you win if you lose. His basis, his lie, has been unraveled. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:53 Glasse wrote: wtf what you are saying doesnt even make sense? if i was original mafia i could convert someone as well as kill someone, lsb was killed last night BUT conversion was not used because kthez or you arent mafia teamed with me, and i'm not dead due to failed conversion. therefor someone that was converted is the last mafia, which means you, town win because i shut you down easily with events that happened in the game. LOGIC SIR, LOGIC And how was I converted? Let me guess, you tried to convert me. which no townie would have known. That's the only way that could happen. Another slip, my friend. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:55 Glasse wrote: you did not destroy me, you got destroyed and are herp derping non sense right now desperately trying to get kthez to vote for me ?! keep trying. just becoming more obvious by the second | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:57 Glasse wrote: if i tried to convert you and failed I WOULD FUCKING BE DEAD, WOULD YOU PLEASE FUCKING UNDERSTAND THAT? Yakuza, can convert someone to mafia during the night, but sacrifices themselves while doing so. If that person is under shrink protection you will still die and they won't be converted. If you are protected by a doctor, the conversion will still go through and you will not die. Point taken. However, then obviously no one was converted. So you're still lying, eh? Either that or spouting stuff which has nothing to do with what your talking about. | ||
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Yet I think it's been proven that you didn't because if you tried to convert you had a decent chance of failure and just dying. so whats your argument. | ||
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On November 19 2010 10:38 Pandain wrote: KtheZ don't you see something wrong when he doesn't want time to debate and just wants votes quickly(so then I won't have time to explain) Or when he keeps on claiming I'm "confirmed mafia" using fake situations. Or when he continously claims he doesn't want to respond to my arguments because "they are bad", yet really hasn't said anything on me and its obvious he just doesn't want to get trapped further. Or the fact he keeps spouting I'm "confirmed mafia" WHEN THERE IS NO REALLY NO 100% WAY OF FINDING THAT OUT. Again, the only way to find out is through analysis. And I have nothing on me, while Glasse has everything on him. Coagulation would have gained nothing when he voted me so fast if we were scumbuddies. Glasse had everything to gain from voting coag. Glasse had nothing to lose when voting kenpachi. Glasse had everything to gain when laying suscipcion on dr. h when YM was deciding who to shoot Glasse had nothing to loose when he claimed Kenpachi should have been shot, especially when he claims after. I had nothing to gain from claiming coag was 100% mafia. Glasse has everything to lose by ending debate abrubtly. Glasse is mafia, realize it. I want to repost this. in addition, you never responding to my response to your "defense" | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:29 KtheZ wrote: Pandain, if noone was converted, the game would have ended. Its really obvious you're mafia. Man frickin use your mind. No one was converted because glasse is mafia. Let me lay this out for you. Night two:Glasse mc's coag coag protects glasse Kenpachi fails to convert me, dies. Glasse gets coag lynched so then he can get to late game basically confirmed and get me lynched. Night three they hit lsb because they can't let him reveal that glasse is mafia. omfg | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:39 Glasse wrote: there is 1 convert per night dude, 2 a night would be so fucking op. 1 convert 1 kill. night 2 kenpachi converted pandain are you frkcing kidding me. they can both convert. | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:32 Glasse wrote: sorry took longer than expected, my dogs started running after a stupid fox i guess me not converting anyone would be a possibility, but would i have really taken this chance? I think 50/50 is a better than having to argue with you because you are trying to save your ass, which is annoying me to no end. BUT, you not knowing that sacrifice killed the mafia you would've claimed who you protected as soon as day started, because thats 100% how you are you would've bragged about having saved the game, also day would not have started so quickly because at the exact time that the day post was posted (about 5 mins after i left) i was driving to college ok so on your big post: 1. of course i will use the "if i'm mafia" thing, to prove you that whatever you say, you can't prove i am mafia. 2. i answered to all your arguments? they are still bad 3. i didnt lay suspicion on drh when ym was deciding who to shoot, wtf are you talking about? 4. herp derp of course i said he should've been shot, i voted for him. 5. losing everything by ending debate abruptly? wtf is that even supposed to mean, i've been trying to make you shut the fuck up and let kthez and me win so i can go do something else why am i even trying to prove myself to you, kthez is the only one i need to prove something to, and i'm pretty sure he knows from lsb, and me that you are mafia Of course. Why would you risk leaving that to chance when you can BS like you are now that your confirmed when you're really not. Again, not your addmitting your arguments are flawed. of course i know sacrifice kills mafia. in addition i protected myself, and I don't know even if i mentioned it cause its sort of irrelevant. Man I've frickin proved your mafia. I'm still waiting for you to adress point by point. And of course you layed suscipcion on dr. h, you said he's trying to hide something. Caught in a lie. For #4, your vote didn't matter, he was never in danger. And I'm saying its easy for you to say that AFTER YM already killed someone, when you just conviently didn't say your opinions earlier. And if you let debate go through, you will lose. That's why your trying to stop it. | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:41 KtheZ wrote: That reasoning is extremely far-fetched. Are you telling me that coag would rather protect a RANDOM person than LSB, who had claimed? Kenpachi visiting you before he committed suicide is enough proof its you. Although Glasse, I'd like to note that both mafia ARE able to MC on the same day Are you fucking kidding me. It's coagulation Idk why he protected glasse, the point is he did. He probably followed glasse's stupid advice of rnging. Again, based on our posts, who do you really think is more likely mafia? Haven't you noted how glasse tries to shirk away from responding? Haven't you noticed how he conviently forgets stuff, and misleads you? Haven't you noticed how he's been forging this BS(like the "fact" that they don't both have convert) to prove I'm mafia. | ||
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you mislead by saying you could've won if you were mafia you mislead by saying I'm proven mafia via kenpachi And I'm still waiting for that proof. Cause you just fell through with the whole "mafia can both mc" thing. | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:47 KtheZ wrote: Wait this isnt even RIGHT. Coag was shown to be YAKUZA (there probably would be a diff name if he was a converted person) Agian, that is not the ase. Jeezes | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:50 Glasse wrote: well i did not forget that, i didnt know that if i was mafia i would've converted one of you, which didnt happen as i'm alive and there isnt 2 mafia in the game right now thats not misleading, that's been fucking proven because i'm flash and you were visited by the yakuza that sacrificed Convienant. And again, your misleading. If you had tried to convert, there was a good chance it would fail if I protected the right person. And again, great arguments. What do they rely on? That your flash. What do mine rely on? Cold hard reasoning, which also happen to support the fact I'm flash. You could negate anything by saying something. If KtheZ was a rolecop and found you were mafia, you could negate that by saying "no, cause I'm rolecop". Which is what your doing right now, | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:52 Glasse wrote: how would you know? in every other games with this kind of abilities it ends up saying 'mafia [town role] or traitor if its 3rd party cause i know the rules | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:53 KtheZ wrote: Because kenpachi visited you when he committed suicide. Simple as that. Plus, if you really were yourself, why would you conveniently decide to protect yourself when it was vital that LSB remain town? In fact, didnt you read my posts in the beginning that it probably is better for shrink to get MCed rather than doctor or detective? I've already explained this. I was pretty likely to be MCED(had caught kenpachi, most likely they wouldn't LSB because they would figure he would be protected like the first night) in addition, it isn't good for shrink to be mced. | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:54 Glasse wrote: my great argument rely on game events that actually happened and not a bunch of shit you are throwing up in yuor posts. also how is anything you are saying proving that you are flash? It proves that you are mafia doing a terrible job at defending himself to me how 'bout instead of saying my arguments are shit you debate them with arguments that don't rely on "I'm flash." do it. | ||
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Ya, which is why I protected LSB night one, (unlike what glasse supposedly did.) But I figured again, if they're going to try to convert me(because i guessed kenpachi), why would I just protected LSB for that 10% chance they'll actually try for him. | ||
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On November 19 2010 11:57 Glasse wrote: you were pushing pretty hard that we should all defend lsb, which you did as a doctor on day 1. at day 2 it was even more vital that you protected him and you knew that, you would've protected him if you didnt get converted Again, do you really think mafia would've tried to MC lsb despite the fact I had correctly guessed kenpachi and the fact it was even more obvious he was confirmed(thus more likely protection for him.) my plan would work unless they were retarded. | ||
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and most of my argument doesn't. | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:02 Glasse wrote: give me a min to find it through the pile of crap you've been posting :3 Again, way to take a simple request and turn it into an insult at me. And why would you need to find it? Don't you know it? | ||
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And again, IT DOES NOT SAY THE ROLE YOU ARE WHEN YOU ARE CONVERTED another misleading statement. So again, KtheZ, why am I "confirmed mafia" | ||
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Again, your using the same logic Ace did in insane mafia with the tracker/watcher stuff. This is deondou's game. | ||
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your using the same logic as him, when he was mafia. Different game, different rules. so again, kthez, why am i "confirmed mafia" | ||
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Cold hard analysis. And I trust it will be on my side. | ||
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1.KtheZ to unvote me, seeing as I'm not longer what glasse claims is "confirmed mafia" 2.Glasse to do an analysis on me, to show his side. | ||
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And I always spam anyways, ask anyone. It's something I'm working on, but me about to die certainly doesn't help. so is that your argument? The first sentence has been proven irrelevant, as that assumes I am lying. so circular reasoning, I'm lying because I'm lying. | ||
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And obviously there's no way to even know if you didn't send your night action or not. so stop with that wifom crap. | ||
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You see! I'm innocent! (this is what I'm talking about...) | ||
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he was mafia. | ||
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1.It could be photoshopped 2.You could still talk from college(brownbear does it) 3.It's all wifom. Face it glasse, its coming down to cold hard reason. heck, perhaps you even sent in the kill beforehand. Idk... | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:33 KtheZ wrote: How the hell has the first sentence been proven irrelevant? The fact that kenpachi visited you when you died is the greatest piece of evidence of all. It outweighs all other pieces of evidence and puts a absofuckinglutely HUGE FoS on you. An absofuckinglutely HUGE FoS. And you're trying to explain how we are left with 1 mafia left, who is glasse, and explaining this through an intricate explanation of how coag protect glasse (for no reason at all), and then glasse converts coag, and kenpachi fails in conversion, and then we are left with 2 mafia again? I find the probability of this extremely low. What I find to be more probably is you lying. You assume that proves I'm mafia because I'm not shrink. But if I'm not shrink, I'm mafia. So your using circular reasoning to prove that. again, I protected myself. Seriously KtheZ... | ||
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man we don't know anything on your life. Again, that's all unverifiable. Your right, its not wifom. I just say that when its retarded crap. Which this is. | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:15 Pandain wrote: Ace basically said to kitaman in insane mafia that his claim was false because his role of tracker was different from the normal role. your using the same logic as him, when he was mafia. Different game, different rules. so again, kthez, why am i "confirmed mafia" for reference where your "proof failed" KtheZ unvote me. Or give reasons why I'm mafia, because just that kenpachi visited me doesn't prove anything other that I'm either doctor, shrink, or mafia. | ||
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We have no idea of proving whether me or glasse is lying. Again, it's not that inconceivable this happened. And don't let it just because its "less likely" mean its impossible, because then your ignoring analysis on each of us. Note I haven't even been analyzed(i wonder why). analysis is the key to victory here. And I'm asking you to open your mind to at least the possibility that I'm really shrink, since we have no proof | ||
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And actually no glasse, since LSB figured mafia wouldn't have enough time to plan out a fake claim. I was afk until a while after you tried to convert me, so you had plenty of time. In fact, it just proves that people WOULD counter claim to LSB, yet you claim they wouldn't? Hmm... | ||
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And why would he say analysis is not the key to victory. That is incrediablly scummy.... and he hasn't offered any more proof that I'm suppodely "confirmed mafia" , yet continues to purport that. | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:51 Glasse wrote: i posted that proof earlier and you dodged it, go back and read it and answer it, i'm tired of this shit, i just want to go sleep and you will make me have a terrible night because i'm mad right now and i never sleep well when i'm mad at a fucking liar I already decimated it. Here is where you failed to respond after. On November 19 2010 12:15 Pandain wrote: Ace basically said to kitaman in insane mafia that his claim was false because his role of tracker was different from the normal role. your using the same logic as him, when he was mafia. Different game, different rules. so again, kthez, why am i "confirmed mafia" | ||
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and again, I'm flash, and you are an original mafia. stop twisting my words. | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:54 Glasse wrote: i dont even know what the fuck happened there, i don't want to dig through 2000 posts to find it. you were also mafia in that game Irrelevant. And it just happened the previous page, go look at it. Heck, you've been reading this thread. That is not an acceptable answer. | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:54 Glasse wrote: there is no possibility that i'm original mafia and i proved that prove it | ||
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afk 10 or so minutes KtheZ, please, do you admit that I'm not confirmed mafia? I want to know at least tha tmuch. | ||
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kthez please read my analaysis of glasse.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7011394 im about to explode here. I clearly explain why his votes did not matter. And I never said glasse tried to convert me. He converted coag. Coag protected LSB. And coag was medic. I mean, he claimed it. And sure he was mafia, but what else would he claim? That was like probalby the one safe role to claim(since he knew no one else had it.) And I have hardly dropped any arguments, only irrelevant ones. I've dropped 3, he has to respond to like 12. He hasn't even responded to my response to his "defense". | ||
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On November 19 2010 12:57 Glasse wrote: i saw the post, i just dont understand how it links to me. it could also relate to you, you are trying to prove yourself with big fake analysis because you are mafia and it's the only thing you know how to fucking do, just like in previous games so I'm trying to prove I'm mafia by doing analysis? and obviously your town because you hate analysis, right? | ||
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1.The main two yazukas were killed(unknown) 2. I'm medic(false, coag was) 3.Coag voted me because he wanted me to gain town cred? Man coag wanted me dead rofl. 4.Good night. But again KtheZ, knowing all the ASSUMPTIONS that are going on, and everything, just I need to know this at least before I go to sleep. Am I a "confirmed mafia." | ||
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Again, I'm not asking you to vote glasse. Just to unvote me. You can still be suscipcious, and I hope I will sufficiently adress them tommorow. But right now, will you be open? | ||
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It's more symbolic than anything, you can always change. But the fact is no one is confirmed, and I'm begging you to be open. Can't you find it anywhere, don't you even think a tiny bit that what I say is true? Don't you have at least a sliver of doubt on glasse because of my analysis? Or the contradictions I've shown? Or his misleading statements? | ||
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On November 19 2010 21:07 Glasse wrote: or because you contradicted yourself a whole lot to make me look bad or your misleading posts that twist my words your way Back up those statements. Anyway... time to prove my innocence. Please read this whole post Why it is more likely Glasse is mafia than me. Right now, the only thing glasse has to “prove” as a possible mafia is the fact that kenpachi tried to convert me. And now you KtheZ has been saying that “its more likely your just lying rather than that coag actually protected glasse”. But is it? Here you will see that it’s really not. Why is my story more likely than glasses? Because if you believe my story, everything fits. If you believe glasse, nothing does. If you believe glasse, than why would coag(who he claims has been my scum buddy) vote me SO QUICKLY after lsb tracked kenpachi. LSB said it right, coag would have waited if we were linked). But if you believe me, it makes perfect sense. Perfect opportunity to try to frame me as scum. If you believe glasse, then why would he protect himself night one when he was in no real danger If you believe me, it makes perfect sense. I was doing what the town had already decided, that LSB was indeed confirmed and must be protected. If you believe me, then it makes perfect sense why glasse voted coag. If you believe glasse, then why wouldn’t I have done the same. If you believe me, it makes perfect sense why I stated that coag was mafia. If you believe glasse, it doesn’t. If you believe me, it makes perfect sense why coag acted so insincere when being voted by glasse, because it was planned. If you believe glasse, you are going even farther into speculation, that me and coag planned that, even though I later said coag was 100% mafia. If you believe me, my night actions make perfect sense. If you believe glasse, they don’t. If you believe me, it makes pefect sense why glasse tried to lay suscipcion on doctor h while youngminii was deciding who to shoot. If you believe glasse, it makes no sense why he would do that and later say kenpachi shouldv’e been shot. If you believe me, it makes pefect sense If you believe me, you are voting because or reason, because of informed decisions, because of analysis and because of the foundations of scum hunting, the same which led me to pin kenpachi. If you believe glasse, you are relying on one statement, one that I am proving doesn’t make me more likely mafia as he loves to claim, you are relying on flawed arguments and unverifiable justificatiosn. Furthormore, there is no proof that Glasse is actually shrink other than that he claimed. Let me say that again, there is no verification of his claim. But LSB tracked me night one, and saw that I visited him. Glasse now claims I must’ve been a converted doctor, but why would coag have claimed that? Think about it, coag claiming doctor(if he was already converted) makes perfect sense, he would know no other person had that. everythin fits together with my story Glasse says that the fact he voted for kenpachi proves he’s innocent. But what I’ve been saying, and he fails to counter, is the fact that that placed kenpachi in no real danger, that voting him simply could gain and not lose, so really that proves nothing. In fact, once you take the fact that Glasse says he wanted kenpachi to be shot, but the only thing he said was that Dr. H was probably hiding something(YM was going to shoot kenpachi/dr. h), everything fits together with my story:Glasse is mafia. It is not unlikely at all that my story is true. I have verification of my role, while glasse’s claim of shrink is backed only by his word. Since there is no real way to confirm who is mafia, YOU MUST LOOK AT ANALYSIS. You must see that glasse DOES NOT want that to happen, he wants to just vote without letting debate happen(like he already did.) He has used unverifiable claims(I was afk) and bad reasoning(see above) and his defense boils down to: “Your scummy, but I won’t say why.” What has glasse proven about me? Nothing. He has not analyzed me(wonder why) He has not responded after I decimated his response to my analysis. Note that I always win the debates, and I firmly believe the truth always wins, because scum must resort to assumptions while I am backed by facts. my story fits, Glasse’s does not . Everything makes sense according to my story -Glasse votes coag because it was actually the best option -LSB tracked me to him because I protected him as shrink -Coag voted me so early because they wanted to get me lynched -I said coag was 100% mafia before he was suddenly killed because I am town. -Glasse said Dr. H was trying to hide something(later says kenpachi should’ve been shot, yet didn’t say anything then) -Glasse said LSB was not confirmed, and even to the previous day has been insuting he was possibly mafia. Glasse has been playing anti town from the start, proven by my analysis, from signs of feeling inherent guilt to suggesting doctor should RNG(probably got coag to too :/). Note how our debates always have ended with me winning, except for those 3 things I admit don’t PROVE he’s mafia 100%(he can’t respond to the other 10 of course.) But Glasse doesn’t admit anything, as if he doesn’t want to. Glasse still is saying I’m “confirmed” mafia, and spouting that nonsense for this whole day. And it took me forever just to prove he was bsing all that. Note that our debates always end with me finally slamming down the basic foundatiosn of his argument, and then he just says “I don’t want to argue…” ITS BECAUSE HE CANT. I hope this shows why I am the real shrink, how everything fits together if you belive me and things don’t if you believe him. Please, remember, no one is confirmed to be one alignment or another, analysis must and will come into play no matter how much he doesn’t want that to happen. | ||
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United States12989 Posts
On November 20 2010 04:41 Pandain wrote: Back up those statements. Anyway... time to prove my innocence. Please read this whole post Why it is more likely Glasse is mafia than me. Right now, the only thing glasse has to “prove” as a possible mafia is the fact that kenpachi tried to convert me. And now you KtheZ has been saying that “its more likely your just lying rather than that coag actually protected glasse”. But is it? Here you will see that it’s really not. Why is my story more likely than glasses? Because if you believe my story, everything fits. If you believe glasse, nothing does. actually if you listen to your own arguments about that scum guide you read, most of what you are doing is following that guide way to say nothing If you believe glasse, than why would coag(who he claims has been my scum buddy) vote me SO QUICKLY after lsb tracked kenpachi. LSB said it right, coag would have waited if we were linked). But if you believe me, it makes perfect sense. Perfect opportunity to try to frame me as scum. you were trying to prove that i was mafia due to me voting for the 2 other dead mafias before, remember that? I'm showing it doesn't make you innocent, in fact it might make sense. Don't twist my words If you believe glasse, then why would he protect himself night one when he was in no real danger technically i was in more danger than the possibly fake detective, who was most likely to be protected to the eyes of mafia, which yourself, said previously. Again, there was no chance he was fake. Furthormore, of course you wouldn't. Why would they try to convert you , not dr. h, not lsb, not even me. why would they convert you. If you believe me, it makes perfect sense. I was doing what the town had already decided, that LSB was indeed confirmed and must be protected. yea, you did protect him as medic, and see what happened? someone else got shot, because mafia knew the doctor and me would probably protect him. Now if i look back in time i should probably have shrunk a vet instead of me, but at that time i just wanted to make sure i don't end up on mafia Again, it makes sense if coag was detective. And again, why would they try to hit you. You're not doing what a real shrink would do. If you believe me, then it makes perfect sense why glasse voted coag. If you believe glasse, then why wouldn’t I have done the same. yea it makes sense, he was a confirmed mafia which we picked by having you fake claim, him lying about being doctor, kthez claiming bulletproof and other game events which lead to coag and you being the 2 mafia left, i don't really get the second part, it just sounds like you are trying to confuse us Or it makes sense because then you can get to late game and tout that your confirmed when your not, and then get me lynched If you believe me, it makes perfect sense why I stated that coag was mafia. If you believe glasse, it doesn’t. ?? explain I said coag was mafia, before he got killed. I said he was CERTAINLY mafia. If you believe me, it makes perfect sense why coag acted so insincere when being voted by glasse, because it was planned. If you believe glasse, you are going even farther into speculation, that me and coag planned that, even though I later said coag was 100% mafia. he acted insincere? so him just right out posting hes mafia after hes obviously dead is not being sincere and somewhat stupid like he always play? no, if you believe pandain you go farther into speculation actually. assuming that the red name wouldnt change, when it obviously would is one part of it. i made lists and proved em with actions that previously happened that was probably sincere because i could see him doing that. Why would we have him come out and claim mafia if we were scum buddies? Furthormore, its in the rules. If you believe me, my night actions make perfect sense. If you believe glasse, they don’t. my night actions don't make sense? how so? i explained it countless times and it make sense. that is just being mad because i was right by thinking lsb wouldnt be hit and you wasted your doctor night action Again, you were in no danger to get shot. Why would you have protected yourself? WHY. And you kept claiming that LSB was possibly mafia, when it was obvious he was not. If you believe me, it makes pefect sense why glasse tried to lay suscipcion on doctor h while youngminii was deciding who to shoot. If you believe glasse, it makes no sense why he would do that and later say kenpachi shouldv’e been shot. If you believe me, it makes pefect sense he wasnt deciding who to shoot when i said that, was he? and of course i would be suspicious of drh, if you would ahve fucking read why i did which i explained tons of time but you keep "forgetting" it on purpose if you are believed about what? Of course he was deciding. Caught in a lie here. And I'm not forgetting anything. Isn't it convienant you happen to not accuse kenpachi, but lay suscipcion on dr. h during this critical time, but you had seemed to oppose kenpachi beforehands? If you believe me, you are voting because or reason, because of informed decisions, because of analysis and because of the foundations of scum hunting, the same which led me to pin kenpachi. If you believe glasse, you are relying on one statement, one that I am proving doesn’t make me more likely mafia as he loves to claim, you are relying on flawed arguments and unverifiable justificatiosn. Furthormore, there is no proof that Glasse is actually shrink other than that he claimed. Let me say that again, there is no verification of his claim. But LSB tracked me night one, and saw that I visited him. Glasse now claims I must’ve been a converted doctor, but why would coag have claimed that? Think about it, coag claiming doctor(if he was already converted) makes perfect sense, he would know no other person had that. everythin fits together with my story i owned you on those points already yesterday night. Lol... you may want to read it again. It ended when I demolished the foundation of your "proof" that I'm scum: that mafia can both mc. Glasse says that the fact he voted for kenpachi proves he’s innocent. But what I’ve been saying, and he fails to counter, is the fact that that placed kenpachi in no real danger, that voting him simply could gain and not lose, so really that proves nothing. In fact, once you take the fact that Glasse says he wanted kenpachi to be shot, but the only thing he said was that Dr. H was probably hiding something(YM was going to shoot kenpachi/dr. h), everything fits together with my story:Glasse is mafia. see coag's instant vote on pandain exactly. Why would he do that. It is not unlikely at all that my story is true. I have verification of my role, while glasse’s claim of shrink is backed only by his word. you don't have proof, you have proof that you are either doctor or shrink, not that you are shrink, which i said more than once as well More than you have, no? You see, what you don't want KtheZ to realize is that I have more proof that I'm actually the real shrink than you, who has just your word. Since there is no real way to confirm who is mafia, YOU MUST LOOK AT ANALYSIS. You must see that glasse DOES NOT want that to happen, he wants to just vote without letting debate happen(like he already did.) He has used unverifiable claims(I was afk) and bad reasoning(see above) and his defense boils down to: “Your scummy, but I won’t say why.” What has glasse proven about me? Nothing. dude the debate is happening, this is just trying to push him to do something he doesnt want to do What He has not analyzed me(wonder why) He has not responded after I decimated his response to my analysis. i didnt even see it, i'll go back sure Note that I always win the debates, and I firmly believe the truth always wins, because scum must resort to assumptions while I am backed by facts. my story fits, Glasse’s does not . rofl, i feel like i said something like that previously and you are trying to turn it back on me, how cute I have been winning the debate, you always end with "I don't want to debate" or "Screw you". Everything makes sense according to my story -Glasse votes coag because it was actually the best option -LSB tracked me to him because I protected him as shrink -Coag voted me so early because they wanted to get me lynched -I said coag was 100% mafia before he was suddenly killed because I am town. -Glasse said Dr. H was trying to hide something(later says kenpachi should’ve been shot, yet didn’t say anything then) -Glasse said LSB was not confirmed, and even to the previous day has been insuting he was possibly mafia. Glasse has been playing anti town from the start, proven by my analysis, from signs of feeling inherent guilt to suggesting doctor should RNG(probably got coag to too :/). Note how our debates always have ended with me winning, except for those 3 things I admit don’t PROVE he’s mafia 100%(he can’t respond to the other 10 of course.) But Glasse doesn’t admit anything, as if he doesn’t want to. Glasse still is saying I’m “confirmed” mafia, and spouting that nonsense for this whole day. And it took me forever just to prove he was bsing all that. Note that our debates always end with me finally slamming down the basic foundatiosn of his argument, and then he just says “I don’t want to argue…” ITS BECAUSE HE CANT. I hope this shows why I am the real shrink, how everything fits together if you belive me and things don’t if you believe him. Please, remember, no one is confirmed to be one alignment or another, analysis must and will come into play no matter how much he doesn’t want that to happen. herp derp bunch of shit i already denied Denied, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. On November 20 2010 06:33 Glasse wrote: oh also, your assumption is that i am original mafia and coag is doctor right? coag said he protected lsb both times. if he protected lsb both times i would have been dead if i converted coagulation i feel like this is a nail in the coffin. i couldnt think at the end of the night yesterday because i was annoyed and tired, which you could easily see and tried to pressure me even more trying to make me post not completely mafia proof posts Stop trying to make situations that aren't there. Coag was mafia, mafia lies. If he had said he protected you, you would've been revealed. | ||
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On November 19 2010 05:21 Pandain wrote: Why Glasse's claim of shrink does not fit(Also an Analysis of his posts) Summary: glasse has not played pro town this game. He has offered poor advice, has played scummily, made contradictions, and says to have performed actions which simply do not make sense. Dr. H was right when he pinned Glasse/kenpachi as the mafia team. I urge you to read this post, and not just skim it, as I bring up very good points here. His Posts: First post and it already bodes ill for him. Note his relunctance to roleclaim. Now, its obvious he feels that doctors/shrinks shouldn't roleclaim, because bad things can happen. Yet he claims he's shrink almost immediately after I reveal I'm shrink. That doesn't add up. Also note he calls shrink "that other thing." doesn't he know the role if he is it? Obviously i fucking instantly roleclaimed, i felt like the fact that everyone thought he was confirmed because no one counter claimed would of worked my way, i instantly posted when i saw your comment because i was excited we confirmed a mafia member. Also, an easy way to make people think i'm not flash is to not even know how to call it So then 1.Why would you thought another person wouldn't have claimed when LSB did(thus confirming him 2.But here you said they shouldn't, you at the very least showed strong relunctance to roleclaim. But merely one minute later you roleclaim, showing no hesitation. one minute later? more like 2 game days later. things change with time you know? it was good for me to claim when i did because then i could prove you are 100% the last mafia One minute after I claimed, I'm talking about. Again, you can say "oh i changed my opinion", but that is a very easy excuse to make, and I don't buy it. Especially when you say no one would counter claim LSB for this reason, yet you do. Doesn't add up. Clarifies rules. First post against LSB(who has been revealed Town tracker.) Says that he could just be really a mafia who fake claimed tracker(despite the fact if the real tracker claimed that plan would be ruined.) So this statement is very leaning towards anti town, especially since LSB has already said he's confirmed because no other tracker has claimed. Ends with spam. So you are avoiding my whole argument i did with you a couple pages ago to point this out AGAIN because it can help you in a way. No, he was not 100% confirmed and i explained why before. If the real detective didnt want to claim yet incase he would die and/or cause chaos to town I'm not avoiding your argument. I'm pointint out inconsitincies. Like here you disagree with the previous post. In the case where you were a real shrink, why would you immediately claim if you caught a fake claim(hypothetical me), yet think that this person wouldn't? And why would it matter if he dies if he caught a mafia i've been pointing out inconsistencies. And like i just answered to the last part, 2 game days = different plays are good. it would matter if he died because a detective day 2 and 3 can still be really helpful and he has even more chances of finding something good You've pointed out nothing. Nothing about me. Again, anyone can say "my opinions changed" if caught in a contradiction, but it still points towards your true alignment. And a shrink isn't good? Later says its obvious he always role claims fast, which contradicts as mentioned previously and with this statement. i like how you only remember things that helps you try to down me lol. the way i post and myself roleclaiming fast don't really mean the same thing, Also i wanted to be jaedong, fuck flash :3 of course i do, because then I can find mafia. that's like the worst answer in history of bad answers, also remember that irl, when a killer remembers exactly everything he did on a given night where he is suspected, he is always a lot more suspicious than the guy that forget stuff because it feels planned, just like you right now Ya, because if i know your scum i should just find all the reasons you might seem pro town. I see... And this doesn't help :/ VERY ANTI TOWN. First, as already noted, shrink had to have protected LSB because he was confirmed, and tracker. Note that Glasse's claimed reason for not protecting LSB was that "he was not confirmed." Going further, why would Glasse protect himself? Did he really think he was in danger of being MCed? Furthormore, he now claims this proves he DID protect himself night one. However, all it really proves is that he has been anti town in his "shrink" actions. So that doesn't even add up. In addition having the doctor rng was a very bad idea. Mafia, as long as their not dumb, will never rng. Kills always have a purpose. Even worse, having the doctor RNG was even worse(doesn't protect LSB[wtf], can protect mafia, doesn't use noggin). bringing this up again, jesus fucking christ, i explained it earlier in my answers. he was not 100% confirmed, i was not necessarily in danger of getting mc'd i just thought it'd be a better choice to keep myself as town instead of another random person that could have ended up being mafia as well. Also you really like to press on that "rng is dumb for doctor" because you really thought about it AS YOU WERE THE DOCTOR AT THAT POINT and disagree with me on that point\ Same point as above. But again, why would you be in danger of being Mced? And if you protected a mafia, nothing bad would happen. And you weren't going to die(unless mafia were extra weird for some reason), so why would you protect yourself? I don't have to be doctor to now that a doctor rnging his protection is pretty anti town. i answered this tons of times, not doing it again because you "forget". Your answers lack those of a townie's perspective. Says to lynch the expierenced people.... yea, the reason why i said it is true, i wouldnt want to lynch you early because your abilities to analyse suck I caught kenpachi...caught you says he is against not voting. of course, 2 kills per mafia a night is fucking dangerous, i'd rather take a chance and maybe catch one. and if you look, i voted kenpachi which ended up being an actual mafia This wasn't accusing you actually lol. This was actually something pro town that you did! randomly voting for lurker like i do every game isnt pro town, you are saying it is because right now it makes you look better Wait, so your saying your not pro town? Goes against previous statement, votes for Kenpachi. Now, this may seem very "pro town" at first, seeing as kenpachi later turned out to be scum. But let's go in detail about this vote, and why in reality it put kenpachi in no danger. At that time, that was the very first vote for kenpachi. THE VERY FIRST VOTE. The votes to lynch no one was ahead by two votes, and doctor h had two votes. I was the only one who had to vote. Mafia go against other mafia all the time to lend town cred for later stages of the game. Ace did it hardcore against me in insane mafia, as well as RoL. Rather than take the actions at face value, what you have to do is go beyond and see what they really meant. As in, did they have any true effect? This vote, at that time, did not. It was merely giving him "brownie points" when really kenpachi was in no real danger. Now, glasse never posted after this vote. I think it's a safe assumption to assume he did not come back until at least after I voted for kenpachi(which it was still safe for kenpachi.) Kenpachi was never in any real danger, therefore glasse's vote for him does not confirm him. wait how the fuck am i going against my previous statement, i was AGAINST voting for no one. Also 21h KST is around when i usually leave for college i think, so thats why i came back later maybe he wasnt in real danger, that's true, but he could have been as i left after i voted and it could have ended badly My bad, I concede. Still, that really wasn't a main point. Now respond to the other 10 contradictions. Now your appealing to speculation, "well...maybe..." is common argument for scum when their lying. Already adressed as glasse hardly tried to get kenpachi lynched. Says he doesn't want people to know what he's thinking(what). i thought what drh said in insane mafia was true, telling everything you know to everyone can often harm the town more than it can help But not at all? wat? he explained it very well at the begining of this game and i thought it made sense I'm talking about you -.- Apologizing for not contributing. Again, note that this is how I caught kenpachi(in addition to other things.) This just reeks of inherent guilt, apologizing for not contributing. yea, i felt bad for not helping the town, if you really thought what you just said is true you would have said it earlier, not now where you desperatly need to prove i'm mafia to get your mafia win. I WONT FUCKING LET YOU WIN TWICE IN A ROW and if i was mafia you could be 100% sure i would have fucking killed you night 1 because i hate you Again, if you felt bad why didn't you help? And what are you talking about, this is the first time I'm really analyzing you, and trust me, town is gonna win this one. yea we are about to win right now, thanks to your useless pressure you are trying to put on us to force us to believe you arent mafia. also i suck at helping when i cant easily back myself up with proven stuff like i am doing right now First of all, pressure is never useless. Don't say me proving your scum is not to be done. And furthormore, you still can't back yourself up with proven stuff, and you still can't. Are you still really going to try to push that I'm "confirmed mafia?" Now, this does mean something. What's happening right now? YM is dead, and he was going to either (in most liklihood) shoot kenpachi or Dr. H. Now, glasse finally comes in, and puts suscipcion on dr. h. So this actually DOES mean something. Also note dr. h was town. yea, i dont remember drh posting posts as big as this one before to prove a point that could have been proven in a much shorter way, i thought he was trying to hide something, which i also explained later Because by posting alot, your hiding something. I see. *sacrcasm* posting a lot =/= posting a huge fucking 30 page long essay. but then if you go by your logic, you are posting quite a whole lot right now, which i'm just answering That was sarcasm Alright, wtf. why didn't you say this before. Now, I now previously you were responding to how you felt about me vs dr. h, but seriously this kind of stuff is important. Also note this is AFTER Dr. H was already shot, so he can say whatever he says he "felt" really :/. what i said about drh wasnt a fucking accusation, it was a suspicion, my vote was still on kenpachi because he was lurking way 2 much Of course, why would you outright accuse him. You can be scum and lay suscipcion on someone without actually accusing them. Stop taking my points, and taking them to the extreme so their not true. And btw this was after YM was already lynched, so kenpachi vote didn't matter i answered why i thought drh could have been red countless times now, stop "forgetting" it I'm not forgetting it, I've bringing it up. I'm pointing out not that you laid suscipcion on dr. h, but that you did that while failing to give your opinion on kenpachi when he was ACTUALLY in danger. Instead, you just tried to incriminate Dr. H. Yes, and it wasn't you. Note that this really just shows he's not flash, that that was just a spur of the moment decision to combat my claim as flash. Note that how would this work since he claims he protected LSB night two. Doesn't add up. nope, no one was protected by flash, as it was also explained to me later, lsb found out that you were visited. i thought kenpachi had suicided on lsb at first, so i was really fucking happy. There's no way to prove whether or not this is true so I'll leave it at that. ok Again, if he's flash couldn't he protect from the "evil pandain?" Also note he hasn't voted for me either, so he's saying and not doing. herp derp durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr i don't have 100% chance to pick the same target as mafia with my shrink Again, taking it to the extreme. If you were telling the truth, why not just have LSB track me, and if I was mafia, you could see who i Mced. you got converted night 2, he didnt live night 3 so he couldnt track you. also converted mafia cant convert Your right. This actually helps my side, I don't know mafia rules as well as you do =D Claims he's flash. Now let's analyze these choices. Now, obviously protecting himself night one for the reasons he did was very anti town. And why would he protect LSB if he was still unsure of his alignment? In addition, why would he protect himself night one. 1.Did he really think mafia would try to sacrifice one of their own to get him?(you might be pretty decent but your not incognito or something) 2.Did he really think HE was more likely to get Mced than LSB, or even Artanis/Dr. H?(or i, but I'm not as amazing) These choices just don't fit. night 1 wasnt anti town, i explained it many times i realize stuff while im typing a post and i realized lsb still wasnt 100% and i had protected him, which could've been bad oh and about night 2, i really thought about shrinking artanis instead of lsb, because they are both good and i ended up picking lsb It was anti town. Respond to the core argument, you were in no danger, so why would you protect yourself. And now you admit your second protection was bad(even though it was actually good since LSB WAS confirmed, see earlier. The last sentence is irrelevant. nope, it was not anti town at all, i also answered this many times, which you conveniently "forgot" Again, I'm not forgetting. You're just not answering, or you fail to respond to my reasons why this or that points to you as scum. Like even here you fail to respond to arguments where I have won. And again, this WAS anti town. Protecting yourself when you were in no danger, why would any real shrink do that? This doesn't fit either. So he isn't sure of LSB's alignment even now(yet protected him the previous night), and thinks he found a mafia(me) because of what LSB(who he doesn't know is confirmed) says? Sorry if that's worded weird. But furthormore, LSB is obviously confirmed. o hai i just answered this, sometimes i realize stuff while im posting, or right after a bit after i also realized there was no way he wasnt detective Respond above. yep, i sure did koo beans Thus begins his great "proof" of being shrink, that you guys shouldn't believe me. The second sentence, read it. "Who cares if I went against the town consensus". That is a VERY mafia-esque statement. going furthor, here he reveals he didn't protect LSB because he didn't think LSB was town(at the very least not neccesarily). Why would you have to ask this if your the real shrink? If you were real(and thus I fake), you would already know. because if you didnt leave your house, you were bulletproof (which kthez is) and if you did leave, you were doctor (and you are), at that point i was making my list that i posted shortly after Would it matter if I was mafia? if you left your house because you were mafia, kthez has to be doctor and not bulletproof, which doesnt make sense ah, so you were trying to find the other's roles. I guess that might seem fishy, but you could just be trying to help find the roles. So this is interperet able. | ||
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Your arugments are devolving even more, but keep trying. Maybe you'll beat your "I WIN IF I LOSE" argument. and of course not this argument, that woudl be cwazy. And I'm not harrasing him, I'm trying to convince him I'm legit. You saying "Just stop" isn't exactly helping him make an informed decision btw. Have fun with your girlfriend, but again, you just delaying answering my arguments hurts your side. | ||
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In response to that, he was converted. Listen, I'm not just going to let you twist the truth into stuff I haven't said. He was converted, and he lied about protecting you that night(would incriminate you.) And are you really going to refuse me the right to prove myself innocent? (i wonder why) And nice bringing up stories to make yourself sympathetic. Hey, I cried last night because glasse is mafia and hatin' on me. EMOTIONS MAKE ME REALISTIC!!!!!!!!!! + Show Spoiler + (why were you talking about mafia anyway) | ||
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1.Glasse is more likely mafia than I am 2.Glasse's votes for kenpachi don't prove anything 3.Stuff makes sense when glasse is mafia, not when I am 4.LSB tracking me lends credence to my claim of shrink, while glasse has only his word 5.There are numerous pieces of evidence in glasses' posts thus far that indicate scum. 6. I win in debate. | ||
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But anyway, if you're going to post, post relevant to the game. | ||
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"You're wrong, but I give up in debate and won't give reasons why I'm disagreeing, besides relying on the assumption I am town, so i am town, and other arguments that when examined either crumble or break down to I WIN WHEN I LOSE." How can I argue to such a masterpiece of persuasive writing.... | ||
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Regardless, this is irrelevant. All you have for you right now is kthez's weird stubborness. You have no debate, you have no proof of anything, its time for kthez to decide. | ||
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Am I the one who had to resort to "I WIN WHEN I LOSE"? Am I the one who's foundation that I'm "confirmed mafia" rested upon the falsity that mafia can't both mc. Am I the one who had to stop debating? Am I the one who has resorted to just insulting the arguments themselves while failing to insult the content?(aka, "YOU HAVE FAIL ARGUMENTS BUT I WONT SAY WHY?" | ||
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On November 20 2010 10:09 Pandain wrote: So what I've showed: 1.Glasse is more likely mafia than I am 2.Glasse's votes for kenpachi don't prove anything 3.Stuff makes sense when glasse is mafia, not when I am 4.LSB tracking me lends credence to my claim of shrink, while glasse has only his word 5.There are numerous pieces of evidence in glasses' posts thus far that indicate scum. 6. I win in debate. and I'm confident I've shown this. | ||
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did you not see my analysis of his posts? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=7011394 Which is one of the things he ended up just having to quit debating. omfg...its called debate. | ||
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omg... I just beat him in debate... I don't know what else to do... | ||
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*sigh wp glasse at least | ||
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or is that it? | ||
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On November 20 2010 12:29 KtheZ wrote: Rather than relying on your epic debate skills, I instead decided to search the topic and look around at your behaviors. I don't trust your debate too much, although I do put it into consideration. The reason I don't really enjoy the debate you guys had is that it was far, FAR too hard to follow. As much as I enjoy reading these forums, reading your debate and then having to search for a huge amount of posts really takes away from the analysis that I can produce. That was where I proved everything... These are several pro town posts glasse has had that you ignored. In this quote, he is asking for deconduo for the town to have the role pm list also, instead of just mafia. This is a pro-town action. Again, not that pro town since it was already in the op Warns town against no-lynch daytimes, in concurrence with Dr.H (who was town) and other people. Seems pro-town, but mafia also advocated this, so this i'll call neutral. Neutral indeed. Another thing I have to note: Glasse voted kenpachi when there were 3 people voting No-vote, ans 0 votes weres on youngminii. However, youngminii actually was lynched. Glasse voted for kenpachi when there was no definitive evidence pointing at anyone, but then a bandwagon formed out of nowhere and hit youngminii. Glasse's vote DID matter, in fact. Him voting a mafia that early was a pro-town indication, since no mafia would vote for themselves when NOBODY HAD VOTED FOR ANYONE ELSE YET. I dont understand how you can call his vote irrelevant, when it could have made a HUGE difference, because he was right. Disagree entirely. not only could he not have foreseen that(nor anybody), but kenpachi was never ever tied for the lead. In addition, glasse was afk for that whole portion. going further, I already explained that him voting for kenpachi does not mean anything since he was not in danger. I however, said coag was certainly mafia before he was even killed! In fact, this then happened And kenpachi was one of the leading figures for lynch, yet once again somehow youngminii was lynched with 1 vote. What I'm trying to say is that Glasse voting for kenpachi actually IS indicative of his pro-town status, and it actually DID matter in the lynch process. Had glasse voted kenpachi at the last second, then I would have considered it a bus, but since he voted him in the very beginning, it is not. See above, its not End result: And this is what bugs me the most. You said that from this He was obviously pro-mafia, but if you would read maybe 1 or 2 posts after: He DID contribute. Exactly! Isn't it obvious. He says he doesn't have anything important to say, and then lays suspicion on doctor h, and later says kenpachi should've been shot(yet never said anything about him during that critical time! Very anti town. Note I DID account for both of these posts, they were talked about during the debate -.-. I really urge you to read those, please. This MAY be continued. | ||
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On November 20 2010 12:47 Glasse wrote: a copy of role pms were not in the op i voted kenpachi and then said voting for no one was bad, expecting the people that voted for it to change. there was a considerable chance they would vote for him because he's a lurker, and people like to do that i said i didnt have anything important to say, then i said something because i was asked what i thought about drh by someone(forgot who), not because i had to say it. kenpachi is dead btw, i doubt he'd go through about 200 posts of arguments ur right, I meant just the descriptions. Still, doesn't really mean anything lol. And again, you said that once, you talked about kenpachi once(before after YM shot dr. h), and now you're saying you foresaw this all? Stop bsing. im tired of you bs arguments. KtheZ, if you really don't see how glasse is just so plainly scum, I'm seriously just about to vote for myself. | ||
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ROFL wtf I mean KtheZ | ||
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On November 20 2010 13:00 Glasse wrote: i didnt say i forsaw everything, i just hoped people would at least vote something else than no lynch, which could have been dangerous since i put kenpachi on the map with 1 vote i fail to see how i'm plainly scum. Honestly i just don't see it. I can see how your pressure play is though. yes, that one vote, it was so crucial. the very first vote. the only vote at first. | ||
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again, misrepresenting the situation. | ||
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On November 20 2010 13:14 Glasse wrote: do you even realize what you are saying right now? of course i do. your the one denying everything because "im not that smart hur hur" sorry if i sound mean, im pretty pissed already | ||
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Dude, its not about winning or losing the game. It's about setting yourself in the future. It's called busing, it happens all the time. you denying that just makes it all the more obvious. KtheZ, I have one request of you. For now, unvote me, so I can vote glasse safely. Than I plead you, I beg of you, to actually read everything,and I know, I know somehow deep in my heart that you'll see my side. I don't care if it seems hopeless, I have faith, because I know I'm right. But right now, even if you do see, then you can't change the outcome. That's why I want you to unvote me, and finally, after thinking it through well, vote. But now it seems it'll just be impossible, so that's why I'm pleading you. | ||
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On November 20 2010 13:23 Pandain wrote: If KtheZ realizes your mafia, then even if he unvotes it'll be 1v1. Dude, its not about winning or losing the game. It's about setting yourself in the future. It's called busing, it happens all the time. you denying that just makes it all the more obvious. KtheZ, I have one request of you. For now, unvote me, so I can vote glasse safely. Than I plead you, I beg of you, to actually read everything,and I know, I know somehow deep in my heart that you'll see my side. I don't care if it seems hopeless, I have faith, because I know I'm right. But right now, even if you do see, then you can't change the outcome. That's why I want you to unvote me, and finally, after thinking it through well, vote. But now it seems it'll just be impossible, so that's why I'm pleading you. for the love of god kthez please don't be afk now | ||
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##Vote Glasse GG | ||
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While we were debating, things got a little heated. I could tell you were really annoyed, and to be honest, I was really too. But I could feel just how angry you are, and it unnerved me. You said how you “fucking hated” me, wanted to punch me in the throat, and while that was deserved, you must remember, I was playing mafia. Mafia will not play nice. Mafia will not just let you have the win. Mafia will hound you, twist your words, make meanings which aren’t there, exaggerate, and just lie. And it must be frustrating for you. But please, especially after you said I was making you not want to play mafia, that just made me sad. I never wanted to make you mad, or angry, or frustrated. I just wanted to play the game. And this was the only way I could win, by trying to make you seem like you’re lying, just can’t debate anymore. You’re a good player, at the very least not a bad one. Sure, you need to learn a bit about spamming, but even in insane mafia, I found it at least a little adorable. I actually enjoy playing with you, I want you to know that. So I wrote this beforehand, because I’m pretty sad, and I don’t know whether its just me, or what. But I just wanted you to let you know that you MUST deal with this kind of BS in mafia, especially when it’s a 1v1 and your trying to convince one person. Deeply apologetic, Pandain | ||
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didn't expect to be converted though :/ haha kthez how close did i get to convincing you | ||
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