EPTKingmaker - A New Game
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
You may instead of executing a player use one of the Relics at your convenience. By Calling/executing I suppose you mean excalibur. Since it is complete random lynch and I guess by then everyone will have their reads by now, using excalibur is huge fos indicator in my opinion and should never be used as long as voting system holds up. Hell, someone going berserk and executing his suspect against his concensus is less damaging than excalibur usage since it at least gives us concrete read about that King. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Okay, note this. Say we decide to let town always dictate King's execution choice A.K.A. the lynch occurs by majority. What does it result in? The normal F9 mafia setup! You know, the setup that is actually thought to be balanced despite of mafia's ability to influence the lynch choice. I think the fancy and new theme is preventing people from seeing how easily we can turn this into normal mafia settings. I absolutely do not see why we should instead take alternative path, where we introduce whole new set of unknown variables and theoretical massive advantage to the scum when he/she is wrongly chosen as the king. Also my thoughts about Hero role. Last thing Hero should do is play like Paranoid Gun Owner hoping to get kill in. Since the town has higher probability of being town than scum playing scummily deliberately can be disastrous. Instead Hero should act as normal vanilla townie and contribute until the majority vote swings against you, whenceupon he can claim. The advantage to lying low is humongous. Since Hero is the sole role, he has the benefit of being able to roleclaim and verify himself 100% anytime into the game- something that grows in strength in the late game where there are lesser number of players. tl;dr Just make lynch based on majority and let's play normal mafia, instead of that other path which can lead to huge damage for town when mafia is picked as town. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
In fact please explain how "t should be pretty obvious if he goes with the general "stream of thought" that the town is going with, or if he just chooses to lynch someone who seems completely random to the town" somehow turns into support for the statement "I disagree that king should listen to town." | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Also will try to get my opinion on Coagulation and others later on. Nothing wrong with diversifying our interests I guess. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
orgolove LSB BrownBear lot more people need to vote since the point of voting system is to overwhelm with numbers, if three more people are not going to join in with the vote I am going to decide between the players who have vote on them. I am sure you guys don't want that so chop chop. I'll start scouring the thread now to place my vote too (which will count as normal 1 vote if the condition I just specified is met). | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Also re-emphasizing that people need to vote with their reasonings or else. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Amber[Light] (2) orgolove BrownBear BrownBear (1) LSB This will not be insta-majority lynch but deadline (1hr~30min before day ends) lynch. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
LSB {http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902462) Neutral read, can see this post coming out from either side. Advocates going for scummy/inactive people and suggest Merlin is abstain vote, which is definitely not useful at all as he helpfully suggests since there is no medic in this setup. I'Ill also throw in thought process of mine, since I was staunchest supporter of King voting system I believe that Kingmaker has to be one of those who supported it in thread. Unlike mafia, Kingmaker does not have to WIFOM about picking his target since even if he is found out and killed, another will simply be nominated in its place- and because his role is not claimable, there is no reason for him to try to keep his identity hidden via picking someone who went against the idea he stated in the thread. So +1 potential townie brownie point in my mind for anyone who supported this idea from beginning to end, that on my mind time to continue... Okay, saw his followup post and I am definitely more concerned. Greater weight on going for inactive, but that's always common theme in TL, what alarms me is A) Lynch a scummy person. Take a look at Team Micro Mafia II, they found both scums day 1 B) Use Merlin. This would be like an abstain. If there are no inactives and no one is scummy, it's a good idea to use Merlin idk seems to put pretty little weight on lynching scummy player option, and his wording just seem too ambiguous to me. Also I have no idea why he advocates the use of Merlin which is clearly anti-town. I think someone pointed this out already, so looking forward to his response I guess. Only minor thing going for him is that he supports king having no autonomy at all. Pandain (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902525) I am looking forward to how you behave when day begins. Next post details details him taking the position FOR king autonomy  Btw didn't someone vote for amber[light] thinking he was the first to push for the king autonomy?Pandain and DoctorHelvetica disagreeing with my thoughts, I respect their opinions but meh =/ Pandain really was going for King autonomy wasn't he? Then he agrees with Merlin d1? WTF? -1 townie point. NIGHT 0 STARTS Pandain starts out with RV following his previous post I guess, LSB suggets king should claim upon nomination, orgolove agrees, LSB going for town credibility? Here he solidifies his opinion about inactive lynch. orgolove (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902760) Agrees with majority lynch, also feels like "no red king" paragraph is kinda forced in my opinion, possibly for townie points. Honestly I wish DrH (or nominated king d1) had been scum b/c if we mislynch today kingmaker is going to have peachy time trying to select 1 townie out of 3. BrownBear (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902855) argues for going for scummy player, LSB goes against. My playstyle preference maybe but not looking at LSB positively for moment. The difference in opinions nonwithstanding, why list the possibilities and state as if you are not really against them at the beginning? I still like BrownBear, but he does argue for partial king autonomy so I am scratching him off the kingmaker list especially since he states that king should have high activity, and that is anything but me. Doesn't mean he is not town though. Pandain (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902919) might be trying to get away with d1 by RVing everyone here. If he does not contribute anything else by the time I finish this, I am so voting him. In mafiascum someone blatantly announcing he was pressure voting without any other reasoning was always good scum tell. LSB (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902974) also states that abstain is good idea, and says in same post that town only have three lynches. wth. Amber[Light] (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6902983) His first posts, starts with support for king autonomy (maybe the voters reason was "bandwagoning" not "being the first to propose" it. Still itchy reason. Probably will look hard over that vote when I get to it). States that relics are useless, obviously, and this last sentence confuses me: If we really aren't okay with someone being killed for Day 1 we should use the ability to gain some possible intel. It's not a guarantee but it will give us a better start for day 2. Holy god, this is going to take long time. Posting this partial segment before I start day 1. I currently do not like Pandain at all, and minor fos on LSB. Only time (hopefully only few more hours) will tell whether I stick to this opinion. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
F*** this, I am NOT going to discuss individual posts. I lack too much patience for that. orgolove-Amber[Light] twit twat While I agree with generic content of the post that started this, attack on Amber[LighT] feels bit stretched considering lot other people besides him unanimously agreeed Excalibur was useless before you spoke up. I still do not understand Amber[LighT]'s last sentence, and I equally do not understand what orgolove is attacking him on, but if what amber says is what I think he is saying ("we should use excalibur d1") then yeah, -1 townie points for him since that is wrong in so many levels =/ But then amber replies Don't you think it would be wise for the assassins to take advantage of eliminating these roles so they can't be used in the late game? so I don't think that is it either. Can either of you please explain what you guys were talking about because I have hard time understanding it. I am sorry but English is not my first language, so I am declaring this null read for now due to lack of information.Third paragraph is still worthy of mentioning though. He understands the possibility of King making irrational and possibly disputable choices and yet he would go for king autonomy? THEN he refuses to vote for the sake of "[creating] a good pro-town atmosphere"? I thought the good pro-town atmosphere for the mafia was where everyone was discussing their opinion about other players, not trying to refrain from attacking each other / cartering to other player's feelings ("buddying"). My suspicion metre of Amber[LighT] has shot up immeasureably, but I only touched beginning of the argument so I can possibly have joy of orgolove pulling off equally scummy maneuver. orgolove's response is acceptable, though I'll take into note that he asked the king to claim. Amber[LighT]'s reply only focuses on the second paragraph where orgolove askes for king claim and ignores the first paragraph. I don't like that. Okay, that's unfair since I just saw he effectively answered why he do not like voting system in his response to me, but seriously? You are going to call voting system which was used in mafia games for aeons "flawed" and state King autonomy is going to be better? First, there will be scum king some point in the game so argument that voting is bad because mafia can influence the lynch is null. Giving all the power into the king leads to danger of town spotlight being focused entirely on the king itself. The voting system allows everyone to be held accountable for their actions, not just the king. This is seriously weak argument rehashed into WoT. orgolove disappears here and don't return for rest of the day methinks. orgolove and Amber[LighT] both had somewhat miffy points some point in their argument, but I definitely find amber to be worse. I might be suffering from DoctorHelvetica complex so I will withhold my vote until I finish the entire game, but I will probably looking over him hard as I do this. (to be continued, b/c day 1 has motherload of posts. I feel like that time where I tried to cram for mid-term all in one night.) | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
On that note, CALL: EXCAILBUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[image loading]](http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5940/excaliburfatestaynight3.jpg) since amber agrees that neither faction wants to use it anyway just let dice rule town's fate k. + Show Spoiler + j/k. It's use, not call and I deliberately mispronounced it just for insurance reasons too so you guys don't have to put me down as the worst king in history. I'll take a look at everyone's argument, focus specifically on Amber[LighT] and BrownBear (because I don't think I can look over the entire thread, unless someone else is willing to propose alternative suspect) and make my decision then so I'd appreciate it if anyone had other suspicious things they wanted to share. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
PS. 'this' is linked to another post, mentioning it just in case. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
execute: Amber[Light] Sorry for not waiting CubEdin's vote but really need to sleep. Almost 4 AM already =/ I apologize if I have made a wrong decision. LSB's arguments were definitely the most persuasive one I have seen in this thread, but there were some things I just could not get over and I somewhat trust orgolove/less so on Pandain at moment. Still extremely hard decision. My drowsiness induces me to kill CubEdin for just sake of him going MIA but that's kinda unfair, considering I have yet to pay any attention to him at the moment... either way good night. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
And yes, I stated that I struggled with the decision and I wouldn't have so if I had simply chosen to ignore your argument. The voter composition was in fact one of the decisive factors that decided me on my choice of lynch for the day. The fact that majority of Amber[LighT] post was all about discussion of mechanics over other players - which orgolove and BrownBear did, at least in paltry amount - did not help matters either. BrownBear being mia and not answering my question was kinda stupid but so was Amber[LighT] and Pandain. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Thought orgolove was kingmaker for some reason, perhaps gave too much credit to theory that avid supporter of non-king autonomy in thread would only choose to nominate me. But yeah, even if I lynched Pandain in fit of perfect reversal of my prior position, I wouldn't have looked at orgolove too hard so this game was probably over by then.Edit: But seriously, why Pandain out of all people -_- I thought he was regarded as suspicious by both BB and amber camp in day 2. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
| ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Things makes lot more sense now. | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
 Can you tell us the reasoning behind your three picks? | ||
|
Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1268/xlcoy0.jpg) | ||
| ||
