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Fishball
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Fishball
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On October 29 2010 10:43 Misder wrote: So I only heard from DH about the mass roleclaiming idea. To me, I feel that its more advantagious to the town than it is disadvantagious, but I want to hear from more of you guys about it. I think I've missed his post, but do NOT mass role claim. There is no role list in this game, so there are plenty of room for fake roles. In case of mass role claim, the real beneficiary here is the Mafia. If what you say is true, we have to look at DH more, as he definitely knows better. | ||
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I'm still debating whether I should run for Mayor or not, as I DO have something to offer. If I do, this will be the first time I've run for Mayor since I started playing. | ||
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On October 29 2010 13:02 Pandain wrote: No one should role claim. The answer is obvious, the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages. For example, let's look at it from several ways. Pros and cons: Pros: -MIGHT find mafia -they can't change later -coordinate blues possibly Cons: Mafia can snipe off blues. Mafia can fake roleclaim easily. With no pms, it'll be hard to coordinate anyway. Now let's take a look at it in real circumstances. We mass roleclaim. Mafia roleclaim just some stuff, pick random generic roles(or just copy from what they see townies doing). The only way we can find out who's who is by checking with dt's. Unfortunately, we've already revealed them. So it'll be like the same, except medics know who to protect, but mafia also know who to shoot(medics/dts.) Basically they'll just snipe us off one by one, and at best they'll go through medics, and then go th rough us. If we're going to roleclaim at all, it should only be like one person at a time, in certain circumstances when you feel it will be EXTREMELY beneficial to the town. Be very cautious if you are thinking about roleclaiming, think: "Do you need to?" Not directly replying to your post. Just saying if I were Mayor, there will be coordination. | ||
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I will be running for Mayor. - I'm a part of a circle, which its members are allowed to PM each other. - This circle consists of 6 players. - Every member knows who is in this circle. - All member does not know each others role - All member does not know each others alignment, whether Town or Mafia. - There is a possibility that there is/are Mafia in this circle. If I'm elected as Mayor, I'll be having the other 5 members role claim to me and the first step of coordination will start from there. We will have starting point. You might ask, why does it have to be me to become Mayor, and not someone else from the circle? Well, my role is critical to this circle, that is all I can say for now. Like mentioned in a previous post, I've never bothered to run for Mayor in any of my previous games, but this time, it's a little bit different. I'm running Mayor for the protection, to be able to give town a head start without worrying of getting killed the other day, at the same time utilizing our circle's power to a greater potential. Then there will be the second question, what if I'm Mafia? Well, this can also apply to any other candidates that are currently running for Mayor. The fact that I'm openly sharing this piece of critical information above, already shows my motives are pro-town. Mafia would never announce that they are in a circle this early in the game, and would try to squeeze every piece of information they can get within. It is also very likely that there will be at least one Mafia within this circle, which means the entire Mafia team would know about the circle's existence. The only group left in the dark would be the rest of the Town, had I not come out and make this announcement. Worst case scenario, I did not get elected, and Mafia kills me the next day; My role flips and everyone knows I wasn't lying. Even if the circle takes a huge hit, the Town as a whole would at least be aware of this other situation. Once again, I am running for Mayor. If I win, I will be role claiming right away. | ||
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No flare, no gimmicks. Just reason. | ||
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On October 29 2010 13:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote: interesting claim fishball is this like the masons who are a group that can talk through pms and nothing else or do you have an additional power that comes with this? Like mentioned in my post: - All member does not know each others role Which means, on top of the ability that we can PM each other, we all have our "real" roles. PM within this group is a secondary ability. | ||
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On October 29 2010 13:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I see. That is very interesting. Artanis did mention the possibility of there being several factions that can talk to eachother. I'm not really sure why mafia wouldn't come out and claim this early on if they were part of this additional group. I can see why it's a pro-town thing to do, to establish the town circle, but mafia could benefit immensely from having the control/leadership position in this case. Correct me if I'm wrong? If I were Mafia, I would try to fish out the roles of each members, or any sort of information within the circle. But you're right, there is still the possibility of Mafia coming out and try to aim for the Mayor's voting power and extra cushion of protection. | ||
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On October 29 2010 14:02 LunarDestiny wrote: Fishball, I hope you are not bsing and fucking with us. If what Fishball said is true, then Artanis is the one fucking with us. Then this game is indeed insane. Back to topic, I don't think we should vote Fishball as mayor because making him as mayor does not benefit the town since his "supposely dt role mentioned by jcarlsoniv" does not help him use mayor's first day lynch ability. Furthermore, it is dangerous to have the other 5 members role claim to him. What if he is a mafia then there goes our 5 blue roles. The counter argument to voting for Fishball is he is experienced. Assuming the town circle thing is true, he also mention the circle got six members which I predict that there is 1 or 0 mafia in it. The ratio of 0/6 or 1/6 is less than the ratio 9/39 (number of mafia over number of players). I actually asked Artanis a crap load of questions and thought about it for a while before coming out. From one of my questions, I asked if there are any other groups like us. Artanis did not deny or confirm... so there you go, this might get even insane"r" | ||
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On October 29 2010 13:56 orgolove wrote: Hmm, he does have quite a bit of experience - he played in the very first mafia, since 2008.. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67133¤tpage=6#113 Actually, this is the first game, ran by Chuiu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=66251 | ||
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On October 29 2010 14:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Correct, but I don't see how claiming you're part of the circle prevents you from doing that. It does welcome a lot more scrutiny upon yourself that would be undesired if you were mafia trying to ruin the town circle. I'm torn, but I guess I'd rather have someone protected that is in some sort of circle than a mayor who can't really give us much information/coordinate anything. That is pretty much my story right there. The only reason I'm running for Mayor, as mentioned, is for protection. Nothing would work if I die the other day, as there is a possibility of Mafia within the circle. I already mentioned Bum and Pandain isn't bringing much to the table, I promised I would. I cannot prove that I am Town. Nobody can; But I can try to convince. So ask yourself two questions. - Which scenario would provide the town more information? - Which candidate is most likely to be Town aligned? You have your answer. | ||
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On October 29 2010 16:55 Ace wrote: Well it's not only a question of whether he is good or not. Fishball admits that his circle has 6 players that do not know each other's alignment. So instead of figuring out who is possibly Scum in his circle he runs for Mayor because his role is too important? Actually, that is exactly what I will be doing, to figure out who could be scum in the group, if there are any at all. Everyone has no information whatsoever for now, but that will be the starting point. On October 29 2010 16:55 Ace wrote:??? In that case why not ask for medic protection, or at the very least propose a good plan that would warrant you getting Mayor votes. You're entire platform comes down to a pretty weak reason and on top of that several players already jumped at the chance to vote for you off of that. Now I doubt all of them are that ridiculously dumb to: 1.) be in your circle and trust that you are innocent so early in the game 2.) Not think 1 step ahead and realize that if they are indeed part of your circle then it may not be the smartest idea to immediately out themselves 3.) Lastly if there are other factions that can talk to each other, then Fishball's circle may not even be a town circle. So now these players need to explain how they are so trustworthy of Fishball so fast. There can't BE a circle if Fishball already knows that all the member's do not know each other's alignment. You wouldn't believe this but people lie about giving you information after you do something for them. See any game with a Scum Mayor. Secondly if Fishball lies about his role claim and we have no role list then how will we know? You can't. It's posts like this that I'm talking about. You buy Fishball's story with no explanation even though nothing about his claim can be proven. I never said I had a Town circle. In fact, I never used the words "town" and "circle" together. I listed everything in detail, and tried not to cause any deception. When I got my role, I immediately started thinking, what can I do with it? We have a premade circle and some of us have already started talking. As mentioned before, my role is critical to the circle, and of course, the other players don't know my role. I can still come out publicly and ask for Medic protection instead, but god knows how Medic's work in this game, plus there are usually work around with medic protection (roleblocker or the likes). The best way for protection is Mayor's bodyguard, and the only way I can die is if infected by the virus. That, or being lynched. | ||
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On October 29 2010 18:08 bumatlarge wrote: The fact that fishball came out a little late on this is weird, what was he waiting for? Maybe he was talking with his posse? ...I'm deliberating whether we should all claim whether or not we are in this circle or not to at least root out that... though 6 is an easy number to check, wouldn't see it relevant number to choose unless he would handpick from his scumbuddies if he secured himself. Wondering if I should just stick with my thing. Just let me get one thing straight. I received my role PM's when I got home after work around 5pm mountain time. I posted my announcement around 10-11pm. That's 5-6 hours of "thinking" time. How can you call this late? Especially when we have 48 hours to vote for a mayor, and the majority of players haven't even checked in yet, let alone vote. | ||
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On October 29 2010 20:42 Coagulation wrote: ok i understand what your saying but there is still a higher chance of mafia gaining influence through fishball being elected as mayor isnt his "circle" about as relevant as the general town circle at this point? considering he has no idea what the alignment of his circle members are. also we have no idea if he even has a circle. is there even a way we can verify this before the vote?? It just seems to me like an unnecessary security breach for mayor. why risk voting up to 7 scum into power when we can play the odds and take a much safer route of voting 1. I DO NOT HAVE A TOWN CIRCLE. Where the hell does this come from? Since after Ace starting using this term. I repeat, we have a pre-made CIRCLE. People in this circle DOES NOT KNOW each other's role or alignment. | ||
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On October 30 2010 00:07 Coagulation wrote: How about instead of blowing up about imaginary references to your CIRCLE in my post you answer the question that you completely avoided. why would we want to risk a chance of 7 people possibly being scum manipulating town with mayor when we can go with the much safer odds of only 1 person possibly being scum. I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know. I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6? Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same. Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input. | ||
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On October 30 2010 01:38 Pandain wrote: but keep in mind your not exactly ver/flamewheel. flamewheel doesn't exactly play... | ||
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On October 30 2010 00:22 Nemesis wrote: To Fishball: It is so easy to make up a role that would make it seem worth it for you to be mayor. Besides, I am more interested in having a mayor with good analytical thinking rather than because of their role. For example, a dt for mayor would be bad if the dt doesn't know what he's doing and just randomly checks people and actually doesn't catch any red. To annul: You might have played great in the Haunted Mafia, but you have not shown as your skills playing as a townie. Playing while knowing a lot of information from the start is different from starting out with no information and I have yet to see that you are good at that. Regarding the "analytical thinking" part, you can check my previous games and judge for yourself. | ||
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On October 30 2010 01:55 Coagulation wrote: im not saying there are 6 mafia in your circle as opposed to any other number im just saying there are 6 ''chances'' that mafia are in your circle as opposed to there only being 1 chance of a mafia getting voted in as mayor if we elect someone outside your circle. there are alot of scenarios obviously that can play out but i just want everyone to understand that there is an added risk to you being mayor. as for whether your ability as mayor + your plan with your circle outweigh those risk's is up for debate. my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting. I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him. I'm open to all that's for sure. Transparency is one thing I was aiming for from the beginning, hence being upfront as much as I can. The only thing I'm asking for return is protection. Like I replied to Ace earlier, making the people in the circle claim, and "organize" from there would be my first step - scum hunting from within. I do not know whether or not will there be Mafia in my group, but if there is, sooner or later there will be slip ups. As an additional note, last night, I've already been in contact with 4 other members, and they all know I might be running for Mayor (It was before I officially announced my run). There is still one more player that I haven't been in contact with. | ||
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On October 30 2010 02:56 deconduo wrote: What we want in a mayor is activity (but not spamming), good thinking and experience. As was said before, I think bumatlarge is the best candidate. Pandain might be a good choice too, but the yum yum stuff does get on my nerves so I'm biased against him If you are just flat out comparing resumes, my resume should top these two. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered. It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like. If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me. Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made. We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know. Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc. The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:16 DCLXVI wrote: I don't understand why fishball thinks that he needs the protection by way of bodyguards. Are there no medic claims in your circle fishball? Since you proclaimed yourself leader of the circle shouldn't you be able to coordinate protection and dt searches within your circle to cover yourself? First, I did not ask anyone to claim to me yet. Secondly, how do you know there is a Medic in my group? Third, how do you know the claim is true? Bodyguard protection is absolute. Medic Protection is not. (Not including the virus here) I never proclaimed myself "the leader of the circle". I only said my role is CRUCIAL to the circle. You mentioned DT coordination; Same thing, refer to the top of my post. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: But the thing is, if you have the ability to converse in secret, and you end up being a Mafia Mayor, we will have NO idea if anything is fishy. You could have them roleclaim, give them assignments, and what have you, but we will never know if you want to cover something up that goes on in PM land. The Mayor is the most heavily watched, but the possibility of the Mayor hiding things scares me. Everything the Mayor does should be out in the open, nothing should be private. Fair enough. Like I said last night, I cannot prove myself, I can only convince. At this stage of the game, the only way to prove your innocence is death. If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. Another way is to have DT's check me first night. I'm sure there are multiple DT's in the game, whether they are role checking DT's or alignment DT's. If nobody says anything, then all is good. But if there is any discrepancies, we'll know that either I am lying, or the DT is. (unless the DT is insane, then this game is really INSANE) | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:33 BrownBear wrote: My vote as to who we pick for mayor? I vote we go through the thread to find a decently active person who's posted relatively pro-town, but who hasn't yet tried to become mayor. This is probably a lot safer than trying to figure out which of the candidates is the least scummy. For all we know, the entire scumteam has just tried to run for mayor in a hilarious, balls-out gambit. Also, don't listen to Fishball's idea for roleclaiming. If he's scum and he gets it, he can just roleclaim, the mafia can elect him godfather, and he can choose to appear as his claimed role. BOOM, almost undetectable scum mayor, town's in a major shithole. Please read my post above. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:46 jcarlsoniv wrote: I know you have said that you can't prove yourself, and I don't necessarily think you shouldn't be mayor. I think you are a good candidate. However, I feel it is necessary to play Devil's Advocate and propose worst case scenarios. In your alternate scenarios, would you have been voted Mayor at that point? I'm not sure mayor can be role checked... Having yourself lynched would be nice as a consolation that we trusted the right person, but if you are a good Mayor, it doesn't really help us much. Can the Mayor be rolechecked? Oh that's fine. Hence why I'm trying to reply as much as I can and share my thoughts on my lunch break right now. Yes the alternate scenarios would be after I'm elected as Mayor, because if not, I'm almost as good as dead. To be honest, you should be asking "can the Mayor be alignment checked?", or both . On October 30 2010 03:46 deconduo wrote: DTs can't check the mayor (usually). Not sure if thats the case for this game but in general the rule is no night action, regardless of what it does, affects the mayor while bodyguards are alive. Depends on the game. We've had games that the Mayor was checked before. Also, we don't even know what kind of DT's are in this game. I only mentioned role/alignment DT's as they are the most common types, but this game is "insane" so who knows. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:49 BrownBear wrote: This is true, as far as I know. Fishball, I remain unconvinced. Read my other post above again. And hey, it's your call. I've thrown as much as I can out there, but at the end, it's your vote. If you think other candidates would be a better choice, then that's the way it is. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:54 deconduo wrote: Don't trust the whole circle thing as I said. I'm voting for bumatlarge for now. If I'm not mistaken, Bum retracted his run. You would have to vote for Pandain or one of the others. | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:56 Pandain wrote: I would be alright with Fishball for mayor I guess, but again, I just don't know why he has to. His reason is protection, but we have medics, no? This circle can be incrediably useful and a valuable asset to town, and if what he says is true, that "his role is crucial to the circle", then why must he go to the extreme and go mayor? To me, being mayor is more than just having protection. Sure, it's useful, and obviously a lot of us running might have valuable roles, but really what Fishball has is an unconfirmed circle, with an unconfirmed Fishball, the real power coming from the ability to pm. An extra vote IS helpful in mafia, and with only ~15 people in the late game is a very valuable asset, in addition he gets to decide the first day lynch. Finally, one possibly very important question: Can the mayor be infected with murrayitis? Yes he can. I've asked Artnais already. I also asked "How long does it take for Murrayitis to kill a player?" His answer: "It kills them on the night after infection." | ||
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On October 30 2010 03:56 Nemesis wrote: Hmm I am a bit tempted to switch my votes. I think what Fishball can do is reveal whoever is in his circle and have those people confirm that they are in the circle so if something suspicious is happening within the circle, the town can easily see it. But the problem with this is mafia might start picking off people in the circle one by one. Can you replace those who died in the circle with new ones? I didn't ask, but I'm like 99.9999999999% sure you can't do that. That's just OP. And like I said, I'm NOT the leader of this circle, so it wouldn't be up to me if there was a leader anyways. Anyways, breaks over so I'm back to work. Keep discussing, and I'll address any questions/concerns later. | ||
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On October 30 2010 05:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: artanis told me it is possible that people can be converted into a neutral circle (the one fishball talked about) and that masons may be active. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Mason so they can convert people into their PM circle I guess, passing on the power of PMing. that could be very interesting and it would change the dynamics of my whole gambit somehow it makes me more suspicious of fishball, but I need to think about it more Alright, I'm back at home for now. I would like Artanis to confirm this. Personally, this was not stated in the PM's sent to me. | ||
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On October 30 2010 04:42 jcarlsoniv wrote: because mayor can't be rolechecked thats why im not voting for fishball Seems like Artanis confirmed that Mayor CAN be role/alignment checked. | ||
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On October 30 2010 04:16 Node wrote: My inclination is to go with Pandain. I agree with whoever it was who asked why Fishball has to be mayor as well as the informant from his circle. What can he do as mayor that he can't do already? What crucial information does he gain by being mayor, and why can't he just bring it to the town anyways from a non-leadership position? I think I've answered this question at least twice already. I cannot/would be extremely hard to proceed without absolute protection. | ||
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On October 30 2010 04:14 kitaman27 wrote: Hey all, sorry I'm late. Just got off my flight from Liquidvania. You wouldn't believe the lines. People must be dying to get out of there (sorry I couldn't resist.) I haven't decided who to vote for as Mayor yet, but I do have two requests. First off, I would like to see an additional person claim from this "secret 6 person circle". If it exists, odds are incredibly likely that a mafia member is one of the members. If that's the case, then the mafia already knows the identities of all six members. So what harm is there to come forth to the town identifying yourself? Secondly, I would like to hear how the Mayor plans to use their first day lynch. Will it be based on the majority opinion of the town, a suspicious set of posts during the first 48 hours, or a power player you are intimidated by? Do you already have an idea of who you want to use it on? In order for a candidate to receive my vote, I require they address this issue. Good luck all ^_^ I will add my comments regarding the circle coming forth in a later post. As for the first day lynch, I currently have no solid candidates. I'll start thinking about it after I win, if I do win. I'll basically list several options, take consideration of what the rest of the players has to say, as well as any other candidates they bring up, then make a decision from there and state my reasons. | ||
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On October 30 2010 08:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball. Actually, from a sense, I do need the Mayor role to scum hunt "within my small group", especially after I've decided to come out, there is no turning back. It will all make sense when you know my role. | ||
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On October 30 2010 07:58 Ace wrote: Dr.H and Fishball - both of you are pretty much in the same boat. You offer the fact that you're ability is valuable, that you can confirm things if you get the Mayor role and it's a major benefit to the town. Both of you have played Mafia before so why run on this platform? You SHOULD be able to run without revealing so much critical information on Day 1. If neither of you gets Mayor you're a good target for scum kill now. If there's so many people with the ability to communicate then why couldn't you just keep quiet, use your ability Night 1 and then start owning faces Day 2? As it is you've given up a lot of information in a desperate plea to get elected and, if you are as good at this game as you think you are you should know that's a big no no. My vote is going to bumatlarge if he's still running, or Pandain. No one knows anyone else's alignment right now except for Scum. That being said I would have voted for Fishball if he didn't try such an illogical gambit for Mayor. You've seen me play in your own games, and other games. You know I never really like to come out so early in the game and draw this magnitude of attention to myself. I've thought about it for a some hours yesterday and went with this decision. But yes, as brought up many times, if I do not get Mayor, I'm as good as dead. But at least I gave it a shot. | ||
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If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town. Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose. I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'. PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know. | ||
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On October 30 2010 09:40 Hyperbola wrote: It's really pointless for me to vote for myself at this point so I guess I'll vote for Pandain. The other two prime candidates are all discussing secret societies and whatnot, and even though I'm all for those types of roles, I believe the mayor should really be a figurehead for the whole town. 1. It would be really difficult, and not to mention disadvantageous, for the mayor to prove they are a free mason or something along those lines 2. The mayor keeps the rest of the town out of the loop (because there wouldn't be a way to transfer secret data) and therefore causes confusion which can lead to unwarranted bandwagoning. 3. If the mayor dies, how will the circle prove itself to town afterward? After losing all leadership, the town will flop and scum will have it's way with the remains. And as for Pandain, I have seen his play style from the previous game and think he would make a good mayor. If he turns out to be mafia, and unless he has flawlessly acted out the role, people would notice and he'd be gone in a blink of an eye. Actually, if not obvious enough, I never intended to "maintain" a group of secrecy for a long period of time. This is simply not possible, unless you can confirm everyone's alignment in that group. Quoting myself on page 18, I even suggested the following. On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote: If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. | ||
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On October 30 2010 09:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: As far as I see it if Mafia start killing off town aligned members of the circle, they incriminate themselves really in the end. This puts a lot of pressure on mafia as to how they choose their kills and they have to very carefully consider their activity within the circle. Let's assume one of the likely scenarios. There are 6 of us, 1 of them is red. Mafia starts killing a couple, 4 remaining, 1 of them is red. At this point, it cannot be helped that town will divert some of it's attention here and try to hunt for that 1 red. If down decides to lynch one of the most "suspicious" one and get lucky enough, they'll lynch the red, but if not, Mafia just got a free kill and the situation drags on. At the very end Mafia will only 1 member, but eliminates the circle entirely as well as any coordination within, as well as causing chaos, confusion, and waste town lynches if used. If town does not use their lynches at all, the Mafia call still eliminate the circle at a different pace. | ||
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On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: I'm voting for Bumatlarge. Honestly I'm not very impressed by how any of the other candidates have been conducting themselves. Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him. I know he hasn't posted in like 30 minutes (ie. 45 pages omfg), but we shouldn't forget about his candidacy and bandwagon onto Doc.H, and certainly not Pandain. Again, Bum has my vote. You can vote for anybody for all I care, But On October 30 2010 09:47 Lexpar wrote: Bum has been honest, helpful, and has some experience behind him. Experience I don't deny, but seriously? At least quote something you think that is "honest" and "helpful". How do you know the other candidates are not "honest? are not "helpful"? Some of these posts from certain players, regarding why or why not they vote for certain players are just mind boggling. infinitestory caught another one below. On October 30 2010 09:28 infinitestory wrote: Your logic for electing Pandain is pretty flimsy. We want a mayor who: 1) Is a good analyzer and an experienced town player 2) Can be scrutinized or somehow confirmed as a townie. 3) Has a role that requires protection Now, ideally we get a mayor who is strongly all three (and ends up being townie under scrutiny). DrH, according to his posts, satisfies 2 and 3, especially 2, and I feel like he can carry out 1 as well. Fishball claims to satisfy 3, but his circle hasn't materialized, which makes me suspect him. Last in my book is Pandain, who claims SOFTLY to satisfy all 3. Emphasis on softly, because he only said he had a "valuable blue role" and could give "indirect confirmation." No real plan for action, unlike the other two candidates, as far as I saw. On top of that, you claim that DrH's bandwagon is suspect, but Pandain had an even larger bandwagon before DrH... why does that not trigger your red flag? It feels almost like you're fabricating reasons to put Pandain first and everyone else last. Odd, to say the least. I want to hear a bit more explanation on these points, NB. When reading through the past 10-20 pages, there are quite a few posts like these out there. I suggest any decent minded town aligned players to pay attention to these people. | ||
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On October 30 2010 10:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Incoming WIFOM; Mafia may also want to keep the circle alive for the purposes of manipulation. a shrinking circle is harder to manipulate in a lot of ways (easier in some). The bigger they can get their false bandwagons the better. What they would do is hard to say. This scenario would most likely be likely when I am Mayor and I am Mafia. But right now, Artanis already confirmed Role/Alignment checks will go through with the Mayor, and I also offered to off myself if necessary. Keep in mind, I'm not at all against bringing the group up front like mentioned. I just want more ideas in how we should proceed with this, and not do it in a haste. | ||
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On October 30 2010 10:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: to clarify you are calling out infinitestories post as a good one amongst what is largely noise yes? if you're saying it's a bad post then -_- I said: infinitestory caught another one below Keyword highlighted. Of course I'm saying his post is a good one. | ||
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On October 30 2010 10:14 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Can't trust Pandain because of the massive bandwagon for him, it just sort of materialized which is a bad sign Can't trust Fishball because his "circle" refuses to come forward making his statement seem false Can't trust Bumatlarge because of his fast entry and even faster withdrawal once Fishball entered the race I don't have a reason to distrust Doc H that is worse than the reasons I distrust the other candidates. Doc gets my vote for now. I'm not going to speak for the other candidates you quoted, but this statement is entirely false. his "circle" refuses to come forward People need to stop making statements like this, as it just misleads others. Have I said the others refuse to come out? Have I refuse to let them come out? Did you not read any of my "latest" posts? Analysis and everything else aside, I'm going to list these facts for now, just raw facts. - Besides myself, only one other member have posted today. - The majority of them have not even posted in the thread yet. | ||
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On October 30 2010 10:50 Pandain wrote: but I'm saying we should put an emphasis on debate in the forums rather than in a "divine secret council of pmers". I know it's not directed at me, but I'm just quoting your post since you're the latest one to say something similar. Seems like a lot of people are getting this impression of the circle, which I've explained quite a few times, that's not exactly what I will make it to be. With DT checks viable to the Mayor, I even offered to kill myself and release as much information to the public to prove it. (Seeing that many other information have sunk into the vast ocean of posts, this is not surprising) It's also quite amusing, most of the people that argue against the "crazy secrecy of the circle", or just me in general "not being transparent" etc., never brings up these posts I've said. Keep in mind I was the first one to come up with such a claim. Fake or not, that's not the point and is for another debate, but I AM being transparent here. | ||
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On October 30 2010 10:54 NB wrote: while obama Dr.h and Mc.cain panda are debating.... fishy hillary is standing out and watch :> What the fuck? Hillary? I'm | ||
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On October 30 2010 11:14 ghrur wrote: Here's what you said: While that's great, we don't know the specifics of "a few cycles." We also don't know how much we can afford to even have this secret circle run for 2-3 rounds if it's being manipulated by: A. an experienced player like yourself B. One with a massive amount of starting information if you were mafia AND C. A mafia member. Also, I don't trust this in the future crap. If things happen like they did in either Mafia XXXI or Haunted Mafia, town quickly forgets about current accusations and bandwagons a lot >_<. Therefore, you could simply being saying this without the intention of doing it at all knowing that mafia will soon wreak havoc (especially if you were mafia and got into the mayor position and are in the secret circle). Finally, we don't know whether or not you would release ALL the information. In fact, there's no way of knowing that. You could maybe release 1/2 your pms, or 1/3 of your pms and we wouldn't be able to tell. I don't even trust that ploy despite you trying to be a martyr to curb our suspicions of you. =/ This is the type of response I appreciate. Nothing is set. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I don't know how the game would progress. Few cycles, could be as few as one, as much as the entire duration of the game. It's not my call, but the Towns to decide if they need to kill me or not and when to kill me. This is not martyrdom, but as one of the few ways, as a last resort to prove myself and the information I provide, if necessary. Yes, town has a tendency to be confused and be distracted based on previous games, but since you brought this up, you can very well keep this on your top priority list and constantly remind the town of this option. As for releasing information, I specially never used the term "all information". You can check my posts in this thread. Let's assume a scenario. We have a confirmed DT/Medic or the sort in the group. I'm about to get lynched to prove my other claims, whatever it may be. Would it be wise to release who in the group has what role to the public now? The answer is most likely no. It really depends on the situation at that time, and this would be my judgment call. But why does this matters anyways? If I only released half of the information I've got, died and was revealed as a Townie, then my motives can only be good. | ||
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On October 30 2010 11:25 Nemesis wrote: And the debates continue! Politics, I dislike it Just some general points I'd like to make: To DrH: If you are mafia and your role is similar to what you say it is, it could just be instead of you being able to "confirm your role as a townie" to other people it could be "fake your role as a townie" to other people. You don't need to out other mafias to do that. I am just highly skeptical of voting for someone because of their supposed role. To fishball: Get someone from your circle to confirm that your circle really exist, or in fact, tell all of them to come out(not their role just the fact that they are in the circle) if at all possible. I can definitely tell one of them to confirm the existence of the circle. In fact, the only "active" member already offered to do so, but I told him not yet. I have yet to see any others come online tonight, and like said before, some of them haven't even posted in the god damn thread yet. Which makes sense... On October 30 2010 11:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also, it'd be great if we could get a few more people on the replacement list. If you're following the game and want to be on it, please PM me. | ||
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On October 30 2010 11:46 ghrur wrote: But see, that's just it. We don't know when to kill you because we don't know how much information you have. You wouldn't want to kill yourself if you were mafia. We don't know how much info you would give us... at all. Nor if it'd be real or fake. Idk, I just think you'd be much better off as a normal role. This way, if you were town, you'd reveal your information anyway and can be medic protected. If you were mafia, we'd still have a ton of information to analyze and a lot less chance of being heavily manipulated by your role. I've pretty much answer that in the reply you quoted. It is totally up to the consensus of Town. But one thing I think you might be misunderstanding. I never said I'm only releasing information only when I die. I'll always share as much as I can, when I can, hence being "transparent". People can ask me questions, and I'll do my best to answer them. This was something I've said I would do from the very beginning. If you want me to elaborate even more on this in detail, I can, but hopefully you get what I'm saying. It's Friday night and close to Halloween... I'm tired and I want to go out for booze | ||
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Most of my replies have been mentioned before and it's just repeat and repeat. | ||
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On October 30 2010 12:08 Pandain wrote: You never really answered this for me sufficently. Can you? It is possible that I've missed questions directed to me among all these posts. I was just saying that in general. Anyways, the medic/mayor part I've answered before; In fact, multiple times. Are you seriously questioning this again? As for the circle itself, since your brought it up now, I can see how you or others would see it this way. I never intended to have the Town to revolve around the circle and the circle alone. Everyone should be aware of the circle, but not focus on it. Anything that could be advantageous to the town should be given attention to. If I'm Mayor, my goals are simple with the circle. - Try to weed out any Mafia from within, if any. If there isn't any, its actually a good thing. - Figure out what roles we have in the circle, discuss with them, and decide what to do with their actions if any. - Share as much suitable information I can with the rest of the Town. | ||
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On October 30 2010 12:16 Glasse wrote: I will protect you as i can't be killed during the game!. I will always be there for you! Vote for me! First Hillary, now dish. You're really pushing it. | ||
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Meant to quote NB. | ||
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On October 30 2010 14:25 kingjames01 wrote: Although he seems sincere, it is also a possibility that DrH does not realize he's anti-town. Consider for a moment: An Insane Cop does not know that his actions are opposite to what he expects. This is an Insane Mafia game. Perhaps there are actually a lot of Insane roles in this game. As I've said before, a truly Insane game must be, by definition, unpredictable. What I mean to say is, we, as players, need to stop relying on what we KNOW from the past and start playing based on the set of rules that we infer from this game ONLY. It would not be fair for the mods to change the rules mid-game, but it is completely in their power to take advantage of our preconceptions on what a Mafia game is. Remember, this is INSANE MAFIA. If I were a medic, I would protect this man. | ||
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On October 30 2010 14:30 Coagulation wrote: I think you are much better off not being mayor If a red slips into power as mayor and you are truly pro town as you say you are we are gonna need someone who can organize as a backup plan. I think you would be best suited as our ace up the sleeve in case mayor gets compromised. Well to be honest, what needs to be said has already been said by me. It would just be flat out lame if I keep nagging about it, wouldn't it ? Right now, I'm just reading through the thread as it progress, keeping an eye on everything. What's up with all those players not posting since the game started? They should be mod-killed by now. I can tell you right now that my role doesn't exactly have that "ace" power like you think it would. It is very simple in fact. | ||
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On October 31 2010 01:01 DCLXVI wrote: Fishball - I still think that you are safe enough within your circle [What? Elaborate, not a blanket statement. If you seriously bring up that Medic/Mayor question again, I'll lose it] and I would rather have you as a back up leader since we cannot be sure of the security of your circle. [I think I know what you mean, but if you compare the first sentence and this, it doesn't really make sense at all. "You're safe in the circle! But we can't trust the security of the circle!"] once a few people die in it we can scrutinize the few remaining for a mafia. [This was already briefly discussed on page 29 and 30.] I still don't understand why all of you don't want to reveal yourselves. If there is a mafia in the circle - highly likely I think - then the mafia knows all of you anyways. [Possible Mafia in the circle would means he know who are the members, but not their respective roles and abilities. Are you implying we should come out with our roles and abilities, or just simply requesting everyone in the circle to come out? If it is the former, then that would be retarded. If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here] You are just withholding information from the town for what purpose? [Withholding what information? If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above. Besides that, the only thing I'm "withholding" now is my role. What else do you want?] My response in red. To be honest, you're either Mafia trying to discredit me, or your reading comprehension is just bad, which baffles me. Even though your post is longer compared to some other players, the points made (at the very least, to me) are either weak, or have been discussed before. Your post falls into this category. | ||
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On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote: I think what he meant in the first two points was that he believes that your safety in the circle won't be compromised if you aren't Mayor, but we cannot fully trust the circle itself if you are Mayor. At least that's what I got out of it. I did say "I think I know what you mean". I'm just picking on the wording he used. On October 31 2010 05:19 jcarlsoniv wrote: You are withholding more than just your role. You are withholding who the members of the circle are. We don't necessarily need to know their roles, but we need to know that the circle exists. If there is scum in the circle (which you yourself have admitted you think there probably is), then all of the Mafia already know that the circle exists, and they know who every member in the circle is. On the other hand, the town is completely left in the dark about whether or not the circle exists because nobody in it has stepped forward. What you are essentially doing is keeping information away from the town that the Mafia probably already has. ??? So you're asking the exact same question he did, which I replied. - "If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above." - "If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here" | ||
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On October 31 2010 06:14 jcarlsoniv wrote: I have read your posts, but I still don't understand why you're hiding it from us. It would be nice if the circle members stepped forward, but at this point I want YOU to tell us who is in the circle. Give us names. Why are you keeping this information from the town when the Mafia most likely already has it? I'm still waiting. Do I have to announce in detail on every little update I make in my head, up to the minute? - I've already PM'd the three "relatively" active members and ask whether they would agree to come out or not. - The others flat out haven't posted in the thread and I rather see them mod-killed, as it hurts the game more than anything regardless of alignment. - This is also one of the reasons why I'm not really pushing so hard for Mayor now, as if the circle falls, my role is useless and vice versa (The circle needs me). I already said I might announce my role even if I don't get Mayor, so if I do announce it, it will easily make sense. - If I don't hear much feed back in a couple hours, it is very likely I'll just announce the list of members and my role. This is all I'm going to say for now. I don't expect you to vote for me based on all the previous information I've provided, but if people simply can't stand waiting in the so called "darkness", then so be it. | ||
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To be quite bold, I don't like the band wagon you're getting. There are quite a few players that have voted for you, I consider "suspicious" in my books. | ||
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On October 31 2010 06:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: My only defense is that the last time I was a scum mayor I specifically ordered the mafia to create a "close win" and have me win by 1 or 2 votes. Doubtlessly there are mafia in this bandwagon though. I wasn't actually directing that at you, it was just a comment about certain voters, but since you said "My only defense", I'll have to bite, right? It was a close win last time, so you ordered Mafia to create a "non-close win" this time to create a diversion! It all makes sense now doesn't it ? Let the merry-go-round spin on! | ||
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On October 31 2010 06:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'll give my list of considerations and we can talk about it as town: orgolove NB youngminii kitaman27 coagulation that's about in order of how much I suspect them of being possible scum. I like how none of the players who voted for you are on that list | ||
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On October 31 2010 07:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: So lynch an inactive like Kenpachi you think? Meapak_Ziphh would definitely be in my top 3 picks. | ||
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On October 31 2010 07:19 Nemesis wrote: Siniquity and Kenpachi were pretty inactive in mafia, but they turned out to be villagers. I still don't like how they're lurking though. Maybe consider it as a future lynch target in the future. Everyone has their own play styles. I've lurked in games before, and have only made my move when the time is right. I'm not commenting on whether lynching and active/inactive player is a good thing or not, but I will never purely base my decision on their activity levels. | ||
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On October 31 2010 07:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Interesting. I wonder if the same post raised a flag for you as well as me. ? To be honest, not exactly and I don't remember. Quite a few players have already posted like this as I've mentioned before. It doesn't necessarily have to be a single post, but could also be a series of posts. These players are the ones I'm trying to keep an eye on the most at this stage of the game. | ||
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On October 31 2010 08:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I have to reexamine everything now that Orgolove has flipped town. I'm a bit surprised he was so intent on attacking me in this case but I suppose he was indeed very dissatisfied with the way I had modded the previous game. I'd be willing to bet that the mafia would put godfather on whoever ran. I've PM'd him many many times to keep his personal grudge to himself, as it would only hurt us at the end, but seems he really really hates you. He just PM'd me now, saying "Whatever. I'm sick of that !@#$ -_-" What have you done DH? Artanis was so hasty to mod-kill too. Now this really changes a lot of stuff for me | ||
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On October 31 2010 08:04 bumatlarge wrote: Holy fuck orgo, you... well better not get into that, at least he proved fishball's circle wish is a big plus for him, doubt any purposeful modkilling happened here, just seems like coincidence. And it seems there mght be alot of 'tidbits' to everyone's role that's not revealed in the PM. I've got a bad feeling about mine hopefully it's something good lol. I need to look through this thread some more. This is more of a fluke, but orgolove himself decided to role claim to me yesterday. I actually told everyone NOT to roleclaim to me before the Mayor stuff has ended. With that being said, I was still inclined to believe him to do his behavior, although rational against DH. I would have been set if I were mayor, and had a personal plague doctor watching over me. This was also one of the reasons, to a lesser extent, why I wasn't pushing too hard for Mayor anymore, as my main goal was for protection. | ||
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On October 31 2010 08:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: My current top choice is SiNiquity. If you have the abililty to put me in your circle Fishball I request you do so. I have quite a bit I'd like to discuss with you that I'd prefer mafia not have the ability to read. When the time is right they are things I would come out to the town with. I already mentioned before I don't have such power. I still call BS on such power. | ||
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If he just came out and claim the existence of the circle, we still won't know if this is just a Mafia plot or not, but since he is dead, his alignment flipped and this actually aided the claim... to be proven earlier. Still, I rather have an alive Plague Doctor. | ||
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On October 31 2010 08:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote: also the mafia just voted for me Artanis confirmed to me this is a real vote. If this is true (Artanis please confirm), then you should stop and think. Why does the Mafia want me to be Mayor instead of the others? Why not Fishball? (2nd closest candidate) What do they have up their sleeves? You should rally your votes over to me imo. | ||
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On October 31 2010 08:24 Ace wrote: Why would bumatlarge reveal who is in his circle to other people? All he has to do is coordinate information. If he recruits a Scum into his circle then all they'll know is that bumatlarge recruited them - not the identity of any other person in the circle. I'm fine with a Detective investigating bum though. But what if he is scum and he recruits innocents to try and get information? Such PM recruiting role might exist, but does not necessarily mean the role is Town aligned. | ||
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I can confirm if his power exists, and I'm already out in the open. Then have DT's check us. | ||
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On October 31 2010 08:32 Ace wrote: Ohhhh ok we're looking at it in different ways. I thought Bum was just a Mason, you look at it more like he's the leader of a PM circle ala Fishball. My mistake. Yes... That's what he claims his powers are, which I called BS. - My circle is pre-made. There are 6 of us and there is no "leader". - Bum's circle is non-existent at start, but he can add members to such circle and expand it. (His claim) | ||
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Will be back later. | ||
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On October 31 2010 11:34 Ace wrote: I swear half the people that play these games are terrible at reading. OHHH, don't get me started. | ||
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ShmotZ and QuickStriker are in my circle. They were among those inactive members I've been saying. This means my circle is now down to 3 members. It is also good/lucky to see that ShmotZ, a Mafia member was killed. This doesn't eliminate the possibility of Mafia still remaining in the circle, but it definitely lightens up the situation. | ||
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On October 31 2010 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I think Fishball should be the highest priority for medics tonight, his circle just got about a thousand times safer, there still might be mafia in it but it'll be really easy to find the leak with only 3 (I think?) members left. As much as I appreciate the concern, what the hell do you mean "you think"? My post is just 6 above yours, on the same page... You should already know that I'm keeping an eye on you. | ||
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On November 01 2010 04:17 youngminii wrote: He didn't PM me, he seems to be using "why aren't you PMing others" as an argument. Sorry Pandain, you're not an idiot, your arguments are. Love it. It's almost comical | ||
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- One of the remaining members have already role claimed to me, and I have informed him of my role as well. - The other member have not replied to me yet, and does not know of my role. He also does not know of the member's role who have role claimed to me. - It is possible that there is still one more Mafia in this circle (if both of them are Mafia, then it doesn't really matter...), especially if one of them die (not me, as I'm already out in the open), unless Mafia just got "lucky" and hit one of them. Regardless, if this case happens, I will have to come forward and announce who is the remaining member and go forth with the investigation. | ||
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On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: Kingjames found something underneath his home. It was a giant pumpkin. Luckily for him the giant pumpkin wasn’t dangerous. However, the Giant Potato that was right beside it blew up and killed him To me, Kingjames was by far one of the most pro-town players in the game. Even though we don't know about his role, the stuff he brings up are all very solid. Not surprising that Mafia choose to hit him, as back on page 39, I did say this. On October 30 2010 14:27 Fishball wrote: If I were a medic, I would protect this man. | ||
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On November 01 2010 09:27 Lexpar wrote: I think that because I'm alive. I am therefore I think? We can trust DocH. We should work with him. I don't care whatever information you might have, or whatever your role might be, this is just a huge useless blanket statement to the rest of the town. On November 01 2010 10:31 Glasse wrote: i'd like to point out that there is always less than 10% truth in any elections. Everything I've said was true during my campaign. Probably that's why I didn't get elected On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: You don't fake a roleclaim to confuse mafia. You will only end up confusing town, especially if you do it early in the game. Everyone knows this. Even if there was the small chance that he's telling the truth, he deserves to be killed because of the simple fact that he lied and confused town. His lie and DrH's 'lie' are completely different things. This type of play is discouraged and he should be killed off for it, Bill Murray used to do it a lot to the great dismay of everyone. LAL I disagree. There will be situations where faking a role-claim would be beneficial for the town, it's just most of the time, certain players will jump out, mafia or not, and cry lynch no matter what as long as the player "lied". I'm not debating if Aeres is Mafia or not, but I do think his motives are valid, if true. Regarding the "Pandain vs DH" posts, I read some of them and skimmed through the rest. To be honest, purely based on my personal opinion, even though it has already been mentioned, DH should have seen the possibility of the role block (if this roles exists in the game) long time coming. Right now, he cannot "prove" his role, and everything else just seemed to be going in circles; Exactly what Mafia want to see. | ||
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On November 01 2010 14:50 youngminii wrote: I cannot think of these situations you refer to but I'm about a hundred percent sure that a softclaim that was vague at best (which turned out to not be a claim) at basically the beginning of the game does not warrant a roleclaim that not only claims the bodyguard role but an extra Cruiseship Captain role. Oh, let's not forget the fact that he said that the mods lied about the number of bodyguard roles too. I do not want to be involved in this Aeres debate, I was just stating my opinions. If you can soak up a hit, or diverse a hit through lies, depending on the situation, it would be worth it. That's why I said I can understand his motives, but I did not say I agreed with what he did. Like mentioned, it depends on the scenario. To be fair, a bunch of you said "mods have lied could still be lying" quite a few times, so it's not surprising that Aeres would use such an argument. | ||
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I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this. | ||
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On November 01 2010 15:07 infinitestory wrote: TBH I think I might have started it, based on the fact that orgolove's role PM said he had a 10% chance to kill his target but it was actually 0%. However, I've also stated multiple times that Artanis wouldn't like about something that consequential, like the number of bodyguards. That would make the game far too hard. I should clarify this. You obviously knew better, and explained with reason after wards like you said. But it is very possible that other players would use this opportunity, and add the "mods might be lying" element into the mix of debate and arguments. This would definitely complicate things a lot and cause a lot of confusion. These are the people we want to look at. | ||
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On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote: Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone. This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones. You're not getting the point. Reread my original post, the post above, and infinitestory. | ||
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On November 01 2010 15:23 infinitestory wrote: I did a backtrace, and it seems nobody really considered that the mods would lie blatantly until Aeres made his roleclaim. At that point, several people start saying that the mods threw orgolove a curveball, now Aeres claims the mods are lying, what next? Since Aeres has said his claim is fake, we should now put aside the assumption that the mods lie in a manner that would significantly affect gameplay, and perhaps along with it the assumption that there is more than one bodyguard. On November 01 2010 15:26 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It was really Aeres who came out first and said "mods lied" since he said straight up "mods lied" You don't have to come out and say "the mods are lying" to cause confusion. Just by bringing it up, saying "the mods could be lying", will have the same affect. Yet again, I can understand why legitimate townie players would bring up this possibility due to the scenario mentioned. We would never know who's abusing this exploit and who isn't. I guess its fair to say, I have certain players marked, but nothing is concrete yet. | ||
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On November 01 2010 20:18 Coagulation wrote: regarding youngminii this was doch number 1 suspect 75% of the game so much that he had made him his first lynch as mayor. right out the gate doch is gunning to take him out. then what happens? youngminii dodges the lynch ? now for some reason doch isnt even thinking twice about youngminii? did i miss something? Was he pardoned or something? Im wondering what your stance is on youngmainii currently, doch?. the way hes jumping all over aeres with lynch first ask questions later looks scummy. If you read the last 10 pages or so, you'll notice youngminii was actually pro-DH when DH was arguing with Pandain. I haven't brought this up explicitly, but since you're already talking about him, I might as well add in. On November 01 2010 20:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: if I'm roleblocked every night then you'd have to trust me. I know I'm quoting out of context, but to me, this is a big no-no, and I would never say something like that. On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: This is Radio LOONY! With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red. I wish I was mayor. I am the serious cat. Meow, Meow, :3 RISE AND SHINE YOU IDIOTS. Come to think of it, have anyone ever though of the possible link between Radio LOONY and Glasse? I do recall him mentioning cats a few times in this thread, and using the ":3" face, but it was him posting in the haunted thread that reminded me and ring the bell. On November 01 2010 20:43 Glasse wrote: I say useful stuff once in a while im like 3 faced 1/3 normal cat 1/3 crazy cat 1/3 serious cat Regardless of Glasse's role/alignment, I just can't seem to ignore this possible link. | ||
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On November 01 2010 20:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again. I have the power to confirm my role to another player. Obviously there is the possibility that this role can be disrupted by other roles or that the person who I confirm to could lie about it. Both are possible. There is also a possibility my role is insane in some way but there is nothing in my role PM to make me believe that and Artanis alluded to the fact that if a role was indeed deceptive in some way that there would be some sort of clue within the role description itself. I haven't said much yet, but I might as well clarify it here. I don't buy it. On November 01 2010 19:07 CubEdIn wrote: Alright, this game is giving me a headache. To everyone who passes by, please read this post. It's the best I can do to contribute. Events - DrH failed to prove himself, not the most horrible thing that could happen but pretty bad. - Unless he pokes someone, and THAT someone is uninfected AND gets a message that he has been poked by Dr.H we cannot confirm that he's blue. If mr.sticky is contaminating people, then we're not going to be able to figure out if dr.H is blue or not. But if he can just "check" blues for contamination, then we can assume that he is (since, supposedly, Mafia already knows who is infected and who is not). Seems like some players are misunderstanding this scenario. We can only prove DH's role ability, but that does not necessarily make him "blue" or town. Mafia can very well have this "Sticky" role too. The only way we can confirm DH's alignment, is if we can prove his poking ability, to prove he is not God Father, and have an alignment DT, if this role exist, check him. | ||
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On November 01 2010 22:44 Glasse wrote: quoting other unrelated thread = irrelevant Do you read? On November 01 2010 22:40 Fishball wrote: I do recall him mentioning cats a few times in this thread, and using the ":3" face | ||
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On November 01 2010 22:57 Glasse wrote: Do YOU read? He quoted my post in "about haunted mafia" thread I'm not denying i used cat references and faces in this thread. :3 Who is HE? That was me. Re-read my post again. I said it was reading the Haunted thread that reminded me of all your cat references IN THIS THREAD. Even if you take out my quote from the Haunted thread, it still doesn't mean the cat references and the :3 face you've made IN THIS THREAD does not link. | ||
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On November 01 2010 23:08 Glasse wrote: what i mean is just saying it without having to quote another thread would of been fine. Then that's your own personal opinion. It doesn't change what I'm trying to point out. | ||
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But if you cannot have a successful poke, no matter what reason, then you can never prove your role. It's that simple. Oh, the paradox. | ||
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On November 02 2010 08:38 LunarDestiny wrote: So lazy that I use this chart as reference... According to the chart, ShmotZ and Orgolove are part of Fishball's circle. But according to the role pm given after their death, there is no mentioning for any circle whatsoever. Orgolove the ADD Doctor is now dead. ShmotZ the Mafia Do-Gooder has been modkilled. Some corrections I want to point out on your list. - QS was in my circle too. - Woah, I never said I can determine the "alignment" of my circle. I've mentioned my role was a simple one, and Orgolove's last post already brought up the fact that my role isn't even an investigative role. Any investigation made, is just by pure "conversation". | ||
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On November 02 2010 07:44 Coagulation wrote: fishball because he has contact with a circle would be the most logical assumption If you take out the fact that three players are in the same circle, I actually did not have any "direct" contact to the other two. At the very least, not from my end. | ||
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On November 02 2010 08:38 LunarDestiny wrote: So lazy that I use this chart as reference... According to the chart, ShmotZ and Orgolove are part of Fishball's circle. But according to the role pm given after their death, there is no mentioning for any circle whatsoever. Orgolove the ADD Doctor is now dead. ShmotZ the Mafia Do-Gooder has been modkilled. Once again, I repeat, QS was in the circle too. 6 total - 3 dead = 3 remaining, ok ? Speaking of which, the 3rd member still have not replied to my PM regarding a request for a role claim. He just flat out did not reply to me. | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:16 Pandain wrote: happy birthday fishball Also, dr. H, why must you post so very very much Thanks. Getting too old ;( | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Considering the mafia likely know everyone who is in the circle, I think you should tell everybody as a town. It's just more information that we don't have that the mafia does. I've been considering it, but I respect the opinions of the other 2 members so I've been wanting to discuss with them; Only if one of the other guy get back to me first... Also, there is a fair chance that the Mafia DO NOT know about the circle members, considering one of the Mafia members in the circle was actually mod-killed for inactivity. Whether or not he would pass on the information, is another story. | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:50 Ace wrote: In fact explain this to me: Let's assume Aeres is a pro-town liar and claims he's the bodyguard in addition to a Cruiseship Captain. According to Aeres the CC can leave town for one night and avoid being hit. If Aeres is the CC and bodyguard, and pro-town then why would he reveal this? If the Scum believe that Aeres is the bodyguard then they'd notice that Aeres would be out of town and just shoot Dr.H on Night 1. From what we know, Dr.H hasn't been shot. So if Aeres is indeed pro-town why didn't Mafia take the shot at Dr.H? Just ignore anything about Dr.H being Scum also for the time being. I just want to breakdown what motive and scenario it makes sense for Aeres to be pro-town if you truly believe he is. If I recall correctly, it was under the assumption that Aeres can sail ahoy and protect the Mayor at the same time. No it doesn't make sense, but that's what I recall. | ||
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On November 02 2010 08:56 Ace wrote: As an example, remember the greatest lie ever told in a Mafia game on TL.net is Caller's bullshit Insane Busdriver claim, 2 days after he led the town to believe he was another role. The town bought it hook, line and sinker because "oh Caller was just trying to help" and walla - 2 dead townes, Caller escapes THREE lynches and the town loses. For the record, I never believed that bastard. I was the one who caught him too, and they killed me, the one guy who was pushing for his death I can already smell a lot of shit in this game that doesn't add up. | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:38 infinitestory wrote: ok, no wonder I felt like there was this gigantic disconnect can someone point me to where we agreed that Cruiseship Captain is made up Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was confirmed by Aeres that the Cruise Ship Captain is a fake role. All we know is that he lied about the Bodyguard role. | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:40 youngminii wrote: Okay maybe I made a giant assumption about the Cruiseship Captain role's authenticity. I always thought it was just assumed to be made up along with the whole bodyguard role. I just want to point this out, from the Day 2 post. On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote: At least some people stayed quiet. One person left the town to do some illegal activity legally, another person put on his favorite lingerie and admired himself all night. It's been said before by Artanis that there are no clues directed to players, but there could be clues directed to certain roles in the game. This is the closest connection I can find. Now if this is indeed the Cruise Ship Captain, what does "illegal activity legally" means? This would be for another discussion. | ||
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On November 02 2010 13:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Due to the modkills, a PM network was severely damaged. For balance reasons, one player has been added. I can confirm this. This was a Mod decision to add a member due to the 3 unexpected modkills. NOT a player ability. As I've said it once, I do not have such an ability to add players to my circle. | ||
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- We have 4 members in the circle now, including myself. We all know who each other are. - 2 members have role claimed to me, which includes the new member. - The last member finally replied, and have refused to role claim to me for now, explaining that he wants to play it safe for a while. Good night. | ||
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Then I linked Aeres's Cruise Ship Captain claim to the Day 2 post. This was also brushed aside :/ Now that Glasse did come out and confirm it, (whether he is lying or not is another case), people are going "Oh! That was you!!" My face: -_- | ||
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On November 02 2010 22:37 Glasse wrote: you were brushed off because i was trying to have fun by denying everything now that i admited though, its obviously me :3 I'm starting to come to a conclusion that your reading comprehension sucks... I'm not talking about you who brushed it aside. In fact you're the only that DID reply to me originally. I'm talking about the rest of the players. See how they are jumping out now? | ||
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On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote: His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume. I honestly think the mods could have easily overlooked this situation. Yesterday, I actually had to convince Artanis to make an announcement of an additional circle member, and explain the consequences if we don't. Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off. You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows. This is assuming his role is legit. | ||
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On November 03 2010 02:46 LunarDestiny wrote: Youngminii - He escaped one lynch for some reasons. DrH also pointed out that his willingness to keep gunning for Aeres makes him less likely to be red. You left out the part where Infinitestory has pointed out that his willingness to keep gunning for Aeres makes him MORE likely to be red. Selective reasoning much? | ||
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On November 03 2010 03:23 L wrote: There is no tradeoff. None. What's mafia going to do about you being a doctor? Waste a roleblock to hit you and get rid of a player who would have otherwise been a townie? Its literally 100% +EV to take doctor unless we're being lied to or unless someone else has a complementary role. We're obviously talking about the same thing on a different level, so this is pointless. Yes that IS a trade-off, but whether it makes sense or not, is another story. I like how you quoted just that line and that line only, where I first mentioned this could easily be a mod "mistake" if true. | ||
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On November 03 2010 03:13 Fishball wrote: Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off. On November 03 2010 03:23 L wrote: There is no tradeoff. None. On November 03 2010 03:28 Fishball wrote: Yes that IS a trade-off, but whether it makes sense or not, is another story. On November 03 2010 03:34 L wrote: It is not, however, a tradeoff at all unless there's another hidden piece of the puzzle. Ohhh I've seen this before. I'm just going to take my own advice. On November 03 2010 03:28 Fishball wrote: We're obviously talking about the same thing on a different level, so this is pointless. | ||
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On November 03 2010 03:37 Amber[LighT] wrote: IMO townie is a lot more fun to be than a blue... Well, you're one of those people then. But hey look, someone that would actually consider playing a Townie than a blue role! This COULD be a trad... nevermind. | ||
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Just didn't expect a meeting out of nowhere, that happens once in a blue moon, which actually required me to stay OT too (without pay). My last, non-game-breaking last words. I never voted for Aeres. (Duh?) I actually have a lot more to say, but... must resist. Good luck Mafia, I just did you a big favor by dying | ||
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On November 04 2010 11:45 bumatlarge wrote: I apologize for posting but having vast experience on this subject matter, I found myself incapable of not answering this question. Boogers are composed of dried nasal mucus, and are often a dark yellow color, and occasionally carry a greenish hue, but only the most veteran nosepickers are informed of this. Fun fact, a little less then half of adults have eaten their snot and have enjoyed it. Snot is meant to be consumed regardless, as mucus normally gets swallowed after cilia sends it down the hatch. Feasting on others' boogers is generally shunned upon as the mucus may carry foriegn bacteria harmful to different bodies. A pic is better than a thousand words | ||
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I'm eating it. | ||
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On November 10 2010 08:44 LSB wrote: Guys I'd like to congratulate you all for making this the largest thread in the Mafia forum since TL Mafia 2. (only 3100+ posts to go!) Only if I didn't die. | ||
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On November 10 2010 08:54 LunarDestiny wrote: Watcher that tracks, what a cruel joke. I was going to bring this up after the game ended, but since both kitman and Ace is dead, I might as well spit it out. Mafia Scum wiki or w/e isn't absolute on how role works. To me, a Watcher "watches" things; It can pretty well means he can watch over every single action of another player. It's really up to the host and how he wants to set it up. In this case, It seems like Artanis just wants to buff up the powers of a common Watcher role. Also keep in mind, this is "Insane" Mafia, nothing is standard. | ||
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On November 12 2010 10:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: it was not smart of me. i think i honestly lost town this game. Trash Collector that can check alignments, yet... people buy it. | ||
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On November 12 2010 12:45 Amber[LighT] wrote: It was frustrating to watch Ace/L/Pandain post because deep down I thought they were all shady, and I bought the bullshit and for 2-3 vote cycles Pandain avoided lynches. He was never confirmed and people kept asking for Pandain to post, and no one ever followed up. It was like Pandain got greased up for this game and slid through everyone's minds. I couldn't believe how spot on I was with my zombie hit though. I was pretty worried that I was going to hit a blue and get shamed forever from mafia games. Sry RoL you're just to fun to pick on, and it came down to you, Ace, or L. So what happened with this PM circle? Did it just die after FB died? Also people who jumped on bandwagon lynches to take out the detectives should do another read through the game and see why it was not a good idea. This was a constant issue the entire game Like I said, half the circle was fucking inactive from the very beginning. 2 of them got mod killed right off the bat and Orgolove also got mod killed later. The members were me, Orgolove, KtheZ, QuickStriker, Misder and ShmotZ. If I hadn't die, and Misder didnt't get himself modkilled as well on the same friggin day, I'm quite set. Misder was one of the earliest members to role claim to me, and he was going to be my personal medic. | ||
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On November 12 2010 12:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I was honestly just really scared to go after you. Your name has a lot of clout and with no one to really back me up I felt too nervous to go with my gut which from day 2 told me you were scum. I started feeling unsure about Pandain later. The funny thing is if I stuck with my original intentions and feelings I would have lynched Divinek on the first day and pushed for you and Pandain to be lynched on the second day. The worst mistake I feel I made was over posting. I'm used to spamming a bit as mafia and only later did I realize I shouldn't respond to everything people post. Secondly I wasn't confident and I played a little bit too reactionary. My rule of thumb: kill the players, not the roles. Wait, that's more of a Mafia guideline. When you've observed enough, you'll know what certain players are capable of (in a more refined way). You can definitely tell if something doesn't add up, and I can say you're definitely capable of reading this. | ||
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On Day 2, I noticed among all the mod kills, only Masq was replaced. Here is the summary of mod kills in this game: Night 1 - Two mod kills (There is one replacement but it was not a mod kill) Day 2 - One mod kill and replacement Night 2 - Three mod kills Day 3 - One mod kill A total of seven mod kills this game, where two of them were Mafia, but only one mod kill was replaced by another player, L. I was going to bring this up with town after Day 2's lynch was over, but unfortunately I was dead. Keep in mind at this point of the game, there were only three mod kills when I first noticed this irregular pattern, so after Night 2 and three more mod kills, someone should notice this right? No. I PM'd Ace after I died, and said I would have immediately hit this player if I were a vigilante or the sort. Ace said L was a replacement he found for Masq. We all know the hosts are playing strictly by their rules this game. Not much leniency was given. But why would a single player being mod killed would be replaced, while the 6 others were not? It's pretty obvious that someone else knows the "very existence" of this player; In this case, the Mafia/3rd Party. PS. Though not mod killed, RoL who replaced Lol1221 was also Mafia. Go figure. | ||
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6 Apples and 1 Orange. What stands out? Plus you guys saying that you have to replace a fellow Mafia member, further supports the logic that "someone else" is involved and is in the same group of the player being mod killed. | ||
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On November 12 2010 13:44 kingjames01 wrote: I watched the entire game and I was not overly impressed with ANYONE's play. After the game, everyone is patting each other's backs and saying, "yeah, that was great how you pulled that off! You're a great player" or "that was some great analysis. You really got that right." NO! EVERYONE ELSE FUCKED UP. I'm so mad. =( Haha, I had the same feeling after reading youngminii's post-game posts. For the record, I did asked medic's to protect you. You were the only guy in the game at that time that I thought, "this dude has to be fucking town". On November 12 2010 13:50 kingjames01 wrote: Also, it was CLEAR that Aeres tried to pretend to be a second bodyguard since he thought DCLXVI had accidentally outted himself. I understood as soon as it happened. The reason why I didn't bring it up was BECAUSE I understood as soon as it happened. If you're FUCKING town, then put a little bit of thought into it, understand it and then go along with it, you shallow-minded fools. Don't make him explain himself. That negates the point of his move. He had a role which allowed him to take that risk. He took one for the team but you guys lynched him for it. When Ace was going for LAL and some others supported, I came out and explained why Aeres could do a fake role claim as a Townie. I even pointed out the clues related to the Cruise Ship Captain role, which very possibly means the role exists and Aeres wasn't bull shitting about it. Town still lynched him, and I got myself mod killed for not being able to vote ;( | ||
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On November 12 2010 13:54 youngminii wrote: Okay you have to calm the fuck down. Lynch All Liars is a pro-town policy that is designed to stop unneeded confusion. You do not make up roleclaims in situations like that. Maybe in the end game where it can help you avoid a lylo or where you can protect someone very important but in his situation, LAL is the best policy. Did you ever think about this at all? Unless you can get the LAL policy in every single game, as a general consensus, this will never be the best policy, and will only be abused by the Mafia as a scapegoat. | ||
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On November 12 2010 14:13 youngminii wrote: I understand that kingjames is a good player, what I don't understand is why he's being such a jackass about it. Do you think Qatol or flamewheel don't /facepalm epically virtually every game? They see every flaw that we make but they don't throw a temper tantrum about it. If they have the discipline to not rage in every post-mafia game session, what makes you think you have the right to do so? So, what's the difference between them? Qatol and Flamewheel don't play. I'm not justifying anything, but you should understand a player involved would be more riled up than pathetic bystanders | ||
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On November 13 2010 04:19 Aeres wrote: Oh crap, I missed the ending of the game. Good work, Mafia. Now, I wanna post the death message that I was planning on when I was lynched; I didn't know I couldn't post this after my lynch, due to some miscommunication between me and Artanis, so I guess I'll post it now. + Show Spoiler + Heh… looks like I got to visit the gallows after all. Unfortunately, I wasn't lying when I said I was a townie, as you guys already know at this point. Then again, I suppose your convictions against me were valid, if incorrect. I'm not particularly happy about my death, but I don't blame you guys in the slightest. Hell, if that was any other player who had fake-claimed Bodyguard and fucked it up to the extent that you saw, I'd be voting for that guy's execution, too. So, I don't feel like my death was unjustified. I admit my idea for protecting the Doc, although feasible in theory, was just horribly played out. I blame that on A) being generally inexperienced, B) wanting to service the town within the limits of my role, C) liking the idea of being a sensationalist hero (lol), and D) not bothering to think anything through completely. Truth be told, I suck. I wanted to improve, so I decided to try something unorthodox in a game I was participating in. There's only so much you can glean from reading past games, so I wanted to see if my observations of Ace, BC, L, the Doc, Qatol, and the other "Big Gunz" in TL Mafia would pay off. Clearly, they didn't. I don't like being conservative in games like these. It's a great feeling to win debates and prove claims, especially in a team setting where your actions can win you the game, so I went on a much more active tack than my play in Haunted Mafia showed. I wanted that chance to be "the man", the guy whose actions were critical to the game. I did not meet the requirements for The Man™; in fact, my claim was about as believable as Blizzard's argument for IP rights in Korea. -.- But I digress. Good intentions, plausible ideas… terrible implementation. The story of my life… and now of my death. Take care, guys. I'm most likely going to sit out the next Mafia game, partly so I don't inadvertently screw up the game again, partly due to schoolwork encroaching on my free time, and partly because of self-pity, I guess. It's pretty discouraging to have what you think is a sound plan getting shot down because of its utter stupidity, and then being derided as a stupid player. I'm not trying to QQ, but that's pretty much how I feel. + Show Spoiler + As a final addendum to this little monologue, I'd like to throw a message out to the good Doc. Doc, I'm fully aware that I'll sound like a creepy son of a bitch for saying this, but I defended you so adamantly early in the game because… I suppose it's because I look up to you as a player. A sort of icon, if you will, as to how a Mafia player should act and think. I want to emulate that set of qualities, but inexperienced as I am, I can't hope to do so just yet. I also felt that your abilities (not just your role, but your skills as a player) were vital to the town, so I wanted to protect you as best I could. In the end, I stabbed myself in the back, but I was convinced till the end that you were a townie. Taking one for the team isn't always a smart decision (as seen in my horrible fuckup), but I couldn't think of another way to help the town. My role was suited to protection, and who better to protect than the Mayor, who also happens to be a role model to me? You could have just posted at the last minute, if you know you're going to get lynched. But what the hell? That post isn't really game related. I was expecting strategic thoughts, clues, pointers, etc.. It's better to have you express your feelings and summarize it after the game has ended, like now. | ||
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