Insane Mafia

On October 29 2010 13:55 Fishball wrote:


Like mentioned in my post:
- All member does not know each others role

Which means, on top of the ability that we can PM each other, we all have our "real" roles.
PM within this group is a secondary ability.

On October 29 2010 13:47 Fishball wrote:
You know what, I'll just put this out there before I head to bed, so everyone listen up.

I will be running for Mayor.

- I'm a part of a circle, which its members are allowed to PM each other.
- This circle consists of 6 players.
- Every member knows who is in this circle.
- All member does not know each others role
- All member does not know each others alignment, whether Town or Mafia.
- There is a possibility that there is/are Mafia in this circle.

If I'm elected as Mayor, I'll be having the other 5 members role claim to me and the first step of coordination will start from there. We will have starting point. You might ask, why does it have to be me to become Mayor, and not someone else from the circle? Well, my role is critical to this circle, that is all I can say for now. Like mentioned in a previous post, I've never bothered to run for Mayor in any of my previous games, but this time, it's a little bit different. I'm running Mayor for the protection, to be able to give town a head start without worrying of getting killed the other day, at the same time utilizing our circle's power to a greater potential.

Then there will be the second question, what if I'm Mafia? Well, this can also apply to any other candidates that are currently running for Mayor. The fact that I'm openly sharing this piece of critical information above, already shows my motives are pro-town. Mafia would never announce that they are in a circle this early in the game, and would try to squeeze every piece of information they can get within. It is also very likely that there will be at least one Mafia within this circle, which means the entire Mafia team would know about the circle's existence. The only group left in the dark would be the rest of the Town, had I not come out and make this announcement.

Worst case scenario, I did not get elected, and Mafia kills me the next day; My role flips and everyone knows I wasn't lying. Even if the circle takes a huge hit, the Town as a whole would at least be aware of this other situation.

Once again, I am running for Mayor.
If I win, I will be role claiming right away.

On October 29 2010 14:05 Fishball wrote:


If I were Mafia, I would try to fish out the roles of each members, or any sort of information within the circle. But you're right, there is still the possibility of Mafia coming out and try to aim for the Mayor's voting power and extra cushion of protection.

On October 29 2010 14:13 infinitestory wrote:

Definitely agree. Fishball's promise that he will give a full roleclaim if and when he is elected makes me feel safer about this. If his roleclaim ends up being bull, we'll probably find out quickly. However, I think we need to make sure that "highly scrutinized" clause DrH talks about here is well kept. Mayor may be an elected position of power, but that is by no means synonymous with town, especially with regards to someone campaigning for the position.

On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote:
I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's.

On October 30 2010 01:44 Fishball wrote:


I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know.

I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6?
Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same.

Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input.

my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.

I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.

On October 30 2010 03:22 Fishball wrote:


Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered.

It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like.

If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me.
Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made.
We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know.

Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc.

The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off.

On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:


Fair enough. Like I said last night, I cannot prove myself, I can only convince.
At this stage of the game, the only way to prove your innocence is death.

If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment.

Another way is to have DT's check me first night. I'm sure there are multiple DT's in the game, whether they are role checking DT's or alignment DT's. If nobody says anything, then all is good. But if there is any discrepancies, we'll know that either I am lying, or the DT is. (unless the DT is insane, then this game is really INSANE)

On October 30 2010 03:46 deconduo wrote:
DTs can't check the mayor (usually). Not sure if thats the case for this game but in general the rule is no night action, regardless of what it does, affects the mayor while bodyguards are alive.

On October 30 2010 03:06 Fishball wrote:


If you are just flat out comparing resumes, my resume should top these two.

On October 30 2010 09:41 Fishball wrote:
As for people bringing up the idea of having the circle come forward, I've put some thought into it.

If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town.

Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose.

I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'.

PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know.

On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote:
so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h

Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"

Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy

Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.

for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end!

On October 30 2010 09:55 Fishball wrote:


Let's assume one of the likely scenarios.
There are 6 of us, 1 of them is red. Mafia starts killing a couple, 4 remaining, 1 of them is red. At this point, it cannot be helped that town will divert some of it's attention here and try to hunt for that 1 red. If down decides to lynch one of the most "suspicious" one and get lucky enough, they'll lynch the red, but if not, Mafia just got a free kill and the situation drags on. At the very end Mafia will only 1 member, but eliminates the circle entirely as well as any coordination within, as well as causing chaos, confusion, and waste town lynches if used. If town does not use their lynches at all, the Mafia call still eliminate the circle at a different pace.

On October 30 2010 10:06 Fishball wrote:


You can vote for anybody for all I care,

But



Experience I don't deny, but seriously? At least quote something you think that is "honest" and "helpful". How do you know the other candidates are not "honest? are not "helpful"?

Some of these posts from certain players, regarding why or why not they vote for certain players are just mind boggling. infinitestory caught another one below.



When reading through the past 10-20 pages, there are quite a few posts like these out there. I suggest any decent minded town aligned players to pay attention to these people.

On October 30 2010 11:06 Fishball wrote:


I know it's not directed at me, but I'm just quoting your post since you're the latest one to say something similar.

Seems like a lot of people are getting this impression of the circle, which I've explained quite a few times, that's not exactly what I will make it to be. With DT checks viable to the Mayor, I even offered to kill myself and release as much information to the public to prove it. (Seeing that many other information have sunk into the vast ocean of posts, this is not surprising)

It's also quite amusing, most of the people that argue against the "crazy secrecy of the circle", or just me in general "not being transparent" etc., never brings up these posts I've said.

Keep in mind I was the first one to come up with such a claim.
Fake or not, that's not the point and is for another debate, but I AM being transparent here.

On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:
If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment.

On October 30 2010 11:28 Fishball wrote:


This is the type of response I appreciate.

Nothing is set. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I don't know how the game would progress. Few cycles, could be as few as one, as much as the entire duration of the game. It's not my call, but the Towns to decide if they need to kill me or not and when to kill me. This is not martyrdom, but as one of the few ways, as a last resort to prove myself and the information I provide, if necessary.

Yes, town has a tendency to be confused and be distracted based on previous games, but since you brought this up, you can very well keep this on your top priority list and constantly remind the town of this option.

As for releasing information, I specially never used the term "all information". You can check my posts in this thread. Let's assume a scenario. We have a confirmed DT/Medic or the sort in the group. I'm about to get lynched to prove my other claims, whatever it may be. Would it be wise to release who in the group has what role to the public now? The answer is most likely no. It really depends on the situation at that time, and this would be my judgment call. But why does this matters anyways? If I only released half of the information I've got, died and was revealed as a Townie, then my motives can only be good.

On October 30 2010 12:05 Fishball wrote:
To be honest, I do think all this debating is getting quite stupid and going in circles.
Most of my replies have been mentioned before and it's just repeat and repeat.

Here's the thing, I don't see why you have to be mayor for this circle if you have medic protection. I've already said I think the circle is a very good thing to have and we should use it to our advantage, but focusing around that will be very hard since there's a chance there might not be any mafia at all! What, are we going to check all 6 people? That's going to take way too long. I'm just confused about how you would go about that, if you could clarify.

On October 30 2010 12:13 NB wrote:
so we have 3 main candidates: Panda, dish, doctor... Who of you will promise to protect me from scums? :3

On October 30 2010 14:22 Fishball wrote:
Even if I don't get the Mayor at the end, I still might reveal my role at that point, but this requires more consideration.

On October 31 2010 06:02 Fishball wrote:


I did say "I think I know what you mean". I'm just picking on the wording he used.



??? So you're asking the exact same question he did, which I replied.
- "If you're still talking about the members, then refer to the answer above."
- "If it is the latter, then I have replied to this at least a couple times already. Click here and here"

On October 31 2010 06:55 Nemesis wrote:
Wow looks like things finally calmed down.

So it seems that you will probably win this election? Who will you be lynching?

On October 31 2010 07:09 Ace wrote:
Just because some of them heavily disagreed with you doesn't mean you should lynch them. It's Day 1, you don't have any information beyond your suspicions. Don't lynch an active player unless they've done something extremely scummy to the point that most of the town can agree on it.

Of your 5 listed players:

Youngminii and NB are the most suspect to me. Youngminii for his vote with no early explanation in the game and his inactivity ever since, and NB for that alarming post he made about 10? pages back. Other than that the rest of those posters are active and you'd be making a big mistake lynching any of them. If they are active and you suspect them to be Scum you can always trap them later.

On October 31 2010 07:04 infinitestory wrote:

DrH, is there a particular reason you suspect youngminii and not Kenpachi nor SiNiquity?

On October 31 2010 07:17 Fishball wrote:


Meapak_Ziphh would definitely be in my top 3 picks.

On October 30 2010 05:03 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm unvoting Pandain, I originally voted for him as a safety net in case I couldn't post. Then I decided to leave my vote with him because I felt a bandwagon was forming around Fishball and I really don't feel safe with a mayor with that much power. Now I'm unvoting Pandain because a bandwagon has formed around him in a rather suprising manner, most people are simply saying they don't want to vote for fishball therefor they are voting for Pandain. As Dr. H pointed out this is pretty suspicious. Another thing I've noticed is that of the three candidates Pandain is campaigning the least, he's even gone so far as to support Fishball. I don't know what this means but it doesn't make me confident regarding Pandain's leadership, if he wants to be mayor he should be actively promoting himself.

There's plenty of time to vote for mayor so I'm going to think long and hard about this. Dr. H is looking pretty good right now but I may go back to Pandain depending on how Dr. H's candidacy changes things.

On October 31 2010 07:54 Ace wrote:
@Infundibulum: Let a Detective investigate them.

On October 31 2010 08:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


If they are given the power to PM others in that circle, they would obviously need to know who is in that circle. It's possible that Bumatlarge conducts the actiont hrough Artanis who also relays the members of the circle something like

"Bumatlarge has brought you into x circle you can now pm
player x
player y
player z"

that would seem sensible to me. I'd like bum to respond about this.

If you can't explain in thread, then I would suggest we somehow incorporate youngminii into a pming circle

I don't want him to claim in thread if it hurts(thus through pms) and I don't even want him to claim entirely

On October 30 2010 14:25 kingjames01 wrote:
Although he seems sincere, it is also a possibility that DrH does not realize he's anti-town.

Consider for a moment:
An Insane Cop does not know that his actions are opposite to what he expects.
This is an Insane Mafia game.
Perhaps there are actually a lot of Insane roles in this game.

As I've said before, a truly Insane game must be, by definition, unpredictable. What I mean to say is, we, as players, need to stop relying on what we KNOW from the past and start playing based on the set of rules that we infer from this game ONLY.

It would not be fair for the mods to change the rules mid-game, but it is completely in their power to take advantage of our preconceptions on what a Mafia game is. Remember, this is INSANE MAFIA.

On November 01 2010 10:20 Coagulation wrote:
im not saying doch is red
im not saying that mafia wouldnt have anything to gain by discrediting him if he is a townie

im saying he had a campaign of bullshit.

On November 01 2010 15:04 Fishball wrote:
Speaking of lies, we need to look back whoever started this. All this could just be a ploy.
I honestly never thought the mods would deliberately lie, as that would just be flat out stupid and no one would ever want to play such a game. It was a good thing that Artanis came out and clarified this.

On November 01 2010 15:12 Fishball wrote:


I should clarify this.
You obviously knew better, and explained with reason after wards like you said. But it is very possible that other players would use this opportunity, and add the "mods might be lying" element into the mix of debate and arguments. This would definitely complicate things a lot and cause a lot of confusion.
These are the people we want to look at.

On November 01 2010 22:55 Fishball wrote:


Do you read?

On November 02 2010 01:06 L wrote:
That's because Aeres is probably a hatter type role that wanted to get hit, so he claimed BG to draw attention to himself and away from more vulnerable/valuable players. He's likely not a VI role, because the revealed roles thusfar are relatively watered down and mafia started with 9 fucking members + there's aids going around (unless the game design is based around town's ability to use murrayitis as a shock and awe town controlled kp attack, which it doesn't seem to be).

The push to get him killed here is pretty understandable due to people loving LAL, but there's zero way someone would vote for themselves as mafia with the usual suspects driving a bus over him. Or rather that would hold unless there was a huge benefit to be gained from him dying. Either a mafia bomb type role (seems unlikely due to plague mechanics) or his death pushes another mafia member into a trusted position vis a vis the town where he can ask for roleclaims.

As for this Young/DrH/Pandain/Infinite circle of morons situation going on, there's a few things which just don't really add up; DrH campaigned on being able to 100% confirm himself and clearly lied about it. LAL should apply to him to, right?

Wrong.

DrH can still confirm himself, but he needs to die for it to happen. I'm not sure if DrH is fumbling for time as his ability gathers information which he'll confirm as valid with a self-kill, but it seems rather odd that young would try to focus attention onto Aeres and cite LAL when LAL can be applied to DrH too. This leads me to believe that DrH/Young are in a circle together, and DrH is feeding him information, which he'll, again, confirm by death.

No it can't because I didn't lie about anything. I don't need to die to confirm I only need to have a successful poke. :/

If it wasn't for that, based on the aeres situation, I'd suggest killing DrH immediately in order to find out what allegiance Aeres has. Aeres is either innocent or sacking himself to benefit another mafia member; there was no benefit to fakeclaiming BG of all roles. This is based on the fact that DrH stands to benefit the most from the diverted attention and post-lynch bragging rights if Aeres flips red.

There's some kind of intense attention-fu going on here to keep us discussing a certain set of facts, which leads me to believe that someone fucked up pretty hard and outed themselves earlier and we're actively being pushed away from that. Given that I kinda just read pages 10,20,30, etc until 80-92, I'm not entirely certain what's being thrown under the rug, but when I get more time and less women offering themselves to me, I'll be sure go over more material in search thereof.

On November 02 2010 06:17 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm going to make a brief player summary list. Nothing fancy, please quote to add FACTS not opinions. I'm doing this from memory just to help myself remember exactly what concrete things have happened.

+ Show Spoiler +

You are the ADD Doctor! Once per night, you may PM me the person you want to save that night. However, if the person doesn't get hit at night, you get an ADD attack and have a 10% chance of killing him yourself, so be careful! You are not allowed to protect yourself, as you are paranoid that you might kill yourself. Furthermore, given the recent spreading of Murrayitis, you have trained yourself in being able to cure a person from this plague.

You are the Mafia Do-gooder! You never really wanted to be part of the mafia, but your dad just happened to be Al Capone so you were forced into it. Every day, you get an additional vote every day, but have to use it to vote on one of the mafia. If you are the only mafia left, you are relieved of this.

On November 02 2010 07:40 LunarDestiny wrote:
Look over day 2 post again. 3 people are infected...

The logical reason is mafia targeted someone and that person came in contact with 2 others.
I question who that person could be.


As of now, no one claims to have the disease so I assume that no doctor has the disease.

If DrH is telling the truth about his poking ability and his doctor role. He couldn't have the disease and the disease never transferred to another person.

Then who the mafia targeted with the disease and who the disease spread to. We have to figure this out soon or the game will end at an exponential rate.

My guess is that it's someone who stood out in day1 excluding DrH.

On November 02 2010 06:17 bumatlarge wrote:
I'm going to make a brief player summary list. Nothing fancy, please quote to add FACTS not opinions. I'm doing this from memory just to help myself remember exactly what concrete things have happened.

+ Show Spoiler +

You are the ADD Doctor! Once per night, you may PM me the person you want to save that night. However, if the person doesn't get hit at night, you get an ADD attack and have a 10% chance of killing him yourself, so be careful! You are not allowed to protect yourself, as you are paranoid that you might kill yourself. Furthermore, given the recent spreading of Murrayitis, you have trained yourself in being able to cure a person from this plague.

You are the Mafia Do-gooder! You never really wanted to be part of the mafia, but your dad just happened to be Al Capone so you were forced into it. Every day, you get an additional vote every day, but have to use it to vote on one of the mafia. If you are the only mafia left, you are relieved of this.

On November 02 2010 09:18 Fishball wrote:


Once again, I repeat, QS was in the circle too.
6 total - 3 dead = 3 remaining, ok ?

Speaking of which, the 3rd member still have not replied to my PM regarding a request for a role claim. He just flat out did not reply to me.

On November 02 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote:

...............................................................................................................................................

You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here...

On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.

IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.

You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows.

On November 03 2010 03:13 Fishball wrote:


I honestly think the mods could have easily overlooked this situation.
Yesterday, I actually had to convince Artanis to make an announcement of an additional circle member, and explain the consequences if we don't.

Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off. You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows. This is assuming his role is legit.

On November 04 2010 11:37 LunarDestiny wrote:
Wait... my statement of Coagulation flicking Booger at a random mafia member which I say is Pandain is not wrong.

Coagulation say he is a retard and can fling booger (we will know after the lynch).
The mod post in the voting thread say booger is flung to a random mafia member. The mafia member "ran out".
Pandain is hit with "green substance" who also "ran out".

So the question is booger can be green right... I don't really pick my booger so I don't know.

On November 10 2010 08:53 kitaman27 wrote:
Good luck town.

Watch out for Artanis[Xp]'s pro-mafia role names :p

On November 12 2010 10:10 LunarDestiny wrote:

I remember, you switched votes to spare pandain.

But I am the one that warned LSB that we got an extra hour...