EPTOn November 02 2010 07:18 Pandain wrote:
I've never been warned
User was warned for this post
I've never been warned
User was warned for this post
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Insane Mafia - Page 8
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On November 02 2010 07:23 Coagulation wrote: i also find myself not wanting to post anywhere else to avoid getting a temp ban induced modkill wait, temp ban -> modkill? | ||
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It's according to his role PM, supposedly. | ||
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2) We're not assuming M-Rus is a mafia ability. M-RUS IS A MAFIA ABILITY. On October 29 2010 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mayor Artanis of Insania was quickly overwhelmed by the effects of Murrayitis. It quickly became clear that the Mafia had somehow harnessed the power of Murrayitis and planned to use it against the town. 3) I find it ever so slightly contradictory that you campaigned based on "I can confirm 100% my role, but none of the other candidates can confirm 100% that they're blue." But now, once you're elected mayor, you're pushing the idea that all of the main candidates are blue, without even a single confirmation. If you trust that there are no reds amongst the main mayor candidates, you should trust Pandain too, right? | ||
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On November 02 2010 08:38 LunarDestiny wrote: So lazy that I use this chart as reference... According to the chart, ShmotZ and Orgolove are part of Fishball's circle. But according to the role pm given after their death, there is no mentioning for any circle whatsoever. Orgolove the ADD Doctor is now dead. ShmotZ the Mafia Do-Gooder has been modkilled. Artanis said that the players may have received additional PMs, which would be left out of the Day post, in addition to the Role PM. Those additional PMs may include information about the circle. | ||
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by request: An analysis of youngminii It's interesting to note that youngminii made only one post on Day 1. It "explains" his choice for mayor (not really, since it's exactly 8 words long). He hasn't even expounded on it as of now, and he didn't respond to questioning. On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote: I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's. Two conclusions. Nothing to show how he got there. He still hasn't said anything about it, but at this point it might be moot. On October 31 2010 19:50 youngminii wrote: hi Sorry for not having been on in a while, I've been away from a computer for a bit (did not know it was going to happen). I'll skim the thread before I say anymore. That's fair. I'm not going to question an unexpected leave. Still, you should respond to the questions we asked on Day 1. On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone? DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*. Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched? This isn't much of a defense, actually. Basically, he says there is no way that his lynch-dodge could be a red role. Except that it was pointed out that it is actually possible for a lynch-dodging role to be red (e.g. dodge lynch the first time, like a red veteran). I agree that it's not beneficial for him to roleclaim at this point (at least not fully), but instead of using "It's not beneficial to town" as a reason, he uses "I'm obviously not red" as a reason. That's odd. On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote: No comment. Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway? He keeps dodging, but he's been adamant about revealing nothing about his role so far. I wouldn't expect anything different. The question is valid, as it's a miswording from Artanis. On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote: Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced. In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now. Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed. Reveals that he hasn't been reading the game carefully in any way (doesn't know about bumatlarge's circle powers OR fishball's circle). Continues to claim that his role could only possibly be blue. On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote: Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Here begins (?) his wagonmongering against Aeres. Even Glasse pointed out that there's no reason to interpret Artanis' words this way. On November 01 2010 04:46 youngminii wrote: Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'? This is legitimate. He does find an odd contradiction in Aeres' post which becomes one of the main reasons he's questioned and eventually revealed. On November 01 2010 10:28 youngminii wrote: Okay I don't care what's going on right now since it doesn't seem to be anything of great substance. Why is no one pointing their finger at Aeres? Did you not read the night post? A bodyguard died (Annul). Now according to LSB/Artanis, there's only one bodyguard. Maybe he's lying but if he is, we're still operating under the assumption that DCL softclaimed bodyguard. So that makes 3 in total. Aeres's claim never made sense to me anyway, and the scumtells that he dropped (oh hey I'm assuming there's two bodyguards because of DCL's softclaim.. But what if DCL isn't a bodyguard? Who's the other one?). It almost looked as if Aeres was trying to gain our trust, make us lose trust in DCL and weed out any other bodyguards that may have tried to claim. It's true that Aeres should have been under much more suspicion at this point (and indeed, we soon began questioning Aeres further). However, the scumtell he points out isn't exactly great, as a sane scum who intended to incite distrust of DC would have claimed bodyguard and acted like the only one. On November 01 2010 12:13 youngminii wrote: LAL His first post in a long time. LAL isn't even valid unless there's reason to believe he made that claim to deceive the town. Many people (I think Pandain and DrH both said this, which might be an only-once kind of thing) have stated that lying can be beneficial to the town. On November 01 2010 12:14 youngminii wrote: Pandain, slow down. Stop posting. Stop spamming the thread with long but useless information. DrH, stop replying to his 'arguments'. You'll just detract from other, more important issues. At this point, he starts attacking Pandain's arguments as spam. No doubt Pandain gets very worked up and the back-and-forth is ... length, but the argumentation isn't contentless. On November 01 2010 12:17 youngminii wrote: Sure that's important. The arguments being put forward (mainly by Pandain) are not important. They are useless, misguided and nothing will be brought up out of them. The only thing they might be able to do is convince some people to vote for DrH without any conclusive evidence. Focus on Aeres. In case you don't know, LAL = Lynch All Liars. Focus on Aeres? Why is Aeres' revelation of lying more conclusive than the several contradictions Pandain pointed out? At this point, I'm worried he's reading selectively, and he seems to be actively distracting the town from DrH and putting attention on Aeres. On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: You don't fake a roleclaim to confuse mafia. You will only end up confusing town, especially if you do it early in the game. Everyone knows this. Even if there was the small chance that he's telling the truth, he deserves to be killed because of the simple fact that he lied and confused town. His lie and DrH's 'lie' are completely different things. This type of play is discouraged and he should be killed off for it, Bill Murray used to do it a lot to the great dismay of everyone. LAL This is untrue. A player who plays badly or in a discouraged way is not necessarily red. He's just not an asset to town. But we don't lynch to get rid of just anybody. We must lynch to get rid of REDS. So far, nobody has shown decisively that Aeres lied to deceive the town. On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: The only real reason I can think of is he played extremely well in Haunted Mafia (carried us to victory). Maybe they saw him as a threat. That's fair. I didn't play in Haunted Mafia, so I wouldn't know. On November 01 2010 13:13 youngminii wrote: I've been thinking about this for a while now. Mafia use a chatroom or something similar as an efficient tool for chatting. Often times the mods of the game join the chatroom to oversee what's happening. So at the point where Aeres had already roleclaimed the second bodyguard (after Annul) a lot of people were asking Artanis whether or not he made lies up. Artanis replied that he would not give an outright lie. This would tell us there is only one bodyguard (unless I'm missing something) which essentially outs Aeres as a liar. So I'm thinking Artanis probably gave Aeres a heads up that he was going to say what he said about the lies beforehand so that Aeres could get a chance to redeem himself a little bit by admitting his lie. ie. he was backed into a corner with no more options. I'm probably horribly wrong on this though, heh. good god, and you're trying to lesson us on what's unlikely and hypothetical, what's concrete and conclusive. On November 01 2010 13:15 youngminii wrote: You're going to die anyway. Unless the mafia are allowed to move the hit? Assuming Node is telling the truth, the hit is decided at the beginning of the day. On November 01 2010 13:19 youngminii wrote: Trust? Too much relaxation? As scum they could put us into a state of 'oh hey the Mayor has a bodyguard, he won't die, we don't need a doctor to protect him' if we think he's still got an active bodyguard. I mean, who the hell would actually go to the trouble of making an entire 'Cruiseship Captain' role by themself? Looks like it was looked over and peer reviewed by an entire team of people imo. The original Cruiseship Captain Crap: The mafia could also put us into a state of "as soon as someone is discovered as lying, lynch." He also makes a very interesting comment, that Aeres doesn't seem to have made up his role -> He must have made it up and then had a "team of people" peer review it. He's really finding the most outlandish ways to paint Aeres as red. On November 01 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote: Well then we should kill Aeres and find out, no? ^_^ This is just WRONG. Killing someone to find out their alignment is not what we lynch for. On November 01 2010 14:50 youngminii wrote: I cannot think of these situations you refer to but I'm about a hundred percent sure that a softclaim that was vague at best (which turned out to not be a claim) at basically the beginning of the game does not warrant a roleclaim that not only claims the bodyguard role but an extra Cruiseship Captain role. Oh, let's not forget the fact that he said that the mods lied about the number of bodyguard roles too. This is fair. It makes sense with his alibi, but that doesn't mean it isn't suspicious. On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote: Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone. This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones. This is true and fair. On November 01 2010 15:18 youngminii wrote: Oh right. There were quite a few. Even I thought the mods were lying because they never said anything about it. This is also true and fair. On November 01 2010 22:24 youngminii wrote: Actually I'm just waiting for a counter argument. There's only so much I can say by myself, it takes two to create a discussion. I would recommend you defend yourself. If you don't, probably nobody will. YOU should create the counter argument. On November 01 2010 22:25 youngminii wrote: Interesting theory. We should keep this in mind, perhaps? That might be a bit of a stretch. I doubt there are three circles (aside from the mafia), so the DT and Elder would have to be in either bum's circle or fishball's circle. Remember, fishball only has 3 people in his circle, including himself. On November 01 2010 23:50 youngminii wrote: I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that? Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist. I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him. I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive? I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much, Those arguments are not idiotic. We don't know enough about Aeres to declare him as scum. If you are waiting for a counterargument against yourself, maybe you should produce it. That second part is the main thing I find wrong with this post. On November 02 2010 07:46 youngminii wrote: Interesting bandwagon. I would defend myself but.. I don't feel the need to. My vote's gonna stick with Aeres, pretty sure my vote on him is justified. I dunno why there are so many people suddenly jumping towards me. Anyway, what the hell DrH? This continues to make 0 sense. Why would you not feel the need to defend yourself? OK. I apologize for missing posts (I know I missed one, but I can't find it >____>) Youngminii has been very concerned with Aeres and getting Aeres lynched without evidence. It seems either scummy or evident of a DT who doesn't know how to play and is martyring himself. Except, how many DTs can dodge lynches? >__> Youngminii adamantly refuses to defend himself. I can't possibly imagine what that means, but if anybody wants to supply a theory, I REALLY want to hear it. | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:24 Fishball wrote: I've been considering it, but I respect the opinions of the other 2 members so I've been wanting to discuss with them; Only if one of the other guy get back to me first... Also, there is a fair chance that the Mafia DO NOT know about the circle members, considering one of the Mafia members in the circle was actually mod-killed for inactivity. Whether or not he would pass on the information, is another story. That's an interesting point. Good job avoiding a hasty reveal IMO | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind. I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious. On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post. | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote: He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude. Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL. And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol 1) If "I'm not going to defend myself against your argument" isn't martyrdom, I have NO clue what is. Enlighten me. 2) I don't think Aeres had a viable plan. His plan was terrible. That doesn't make it scummy for the reasons that youngminii listed. Aeres wanted to defend you, and I see no contradiction in trying to produce an extra bodyguard for the mafia to hit. It might not be a pretty or good solution, but it is not a scummy solution. Aeres explained his plan in full, and nobody's found a lie within that plan yet. That is what I mean by a solid defense. 3) It's more the fact that youngminii comes out of absolutely nowhere to defend you. Aeres defending you since the start is all fine and dandy, but youngminii's defense of you comes fairly out of the blue. | ||
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On November 02 2010 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: martyrdom is saying "goa head lynch me idc" like AERES and SiNiquity did. Did I mention Aeres did that? Aeres did that. no he didn't explained his plan in full. he didn't explain his plan at all. he was intentionally vague and then when I asked what his plan could be he jumped immediately on to what I was talking about. HUGE difference. out of the blue? what makes a defense out of the blue or not? what does that mean "coming out of nowhere?" where should he come from? 1) hey siniquity cemented himself on our lynch list day 1 for martyring himself, thanks for reminding me about that 2) On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote: that doesn't sound particularly vague to meAlright, it's confession time. I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard. When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good. When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried. I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark. I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town. (I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....) 3) Don't use that worthless rhetoric. He came out of the blue because he had one post on day 1, and only two (?) posts before he started defending you. You even noted that. That's why he was your #1 lynch on day 1, remember? | ||
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You bring up valid points. Aeres did lie. He did confuse the town. He did have holes in his play. But he ended up revealing it all. I think I bring up valid points. Youngminii is far too fanatic about lynching Aeres. Youngminii didn't defend himself for a good while. Youngminii's posting behavior is erratic. But he's defended himself now. I'm going to keep my vote on youngminii. I'll stand by my own beliefs. I still don't want ANYONE bandwagoning on either candidate. I want everyone to read both sides of every argument. I hope we can at least agree that bandwagoning is undesirable, and that we should apply pressure to those who blindly vote or voted. | ||
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Our argument, like the one you had with Pandain, is now going in circles. If you have any additional points to bring up, I'll hear them. If I have any additional points to bring up, I'll share them. | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: these ones if you could highlight specifically where he highlights his plan in that post I'd love to hear it mmk, 1) I find Aeres' "martyrdom" less suspicious because he at least attempted to offer some sort of reasoning behind his behavior. Youngminii didn't until I specifically pressured him into doing it. If you find Aeres' martyrdom more scummy, that's fine by me. I suppose that's subjective. 2) This is a highly legitimate point. iirc we were asking whether it's possible for the Cruiseship Captain to defend the mayor while at sea, but Artanis refused to answer because it might have confirmed/denied roles. I don't think it's possible to resolve that point. | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:31 youngminii wrote: Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory? For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me. | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote: ............................................................................................................................................... You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here... ok, no wonder I felt like there was this gigantic disconnect can someone point me to where we agreed that Cruiseship Captain is made up | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:40 youngminii wrote: Okay maybe I made a giant assumption about the Cruiseship Captain role's authenticity. I always thought it was just assumed to be made up along with the whole bodyguard role. ....well I thought about it, and this totally explains a lot of your actions, including why you were incredibly convinced his plan was to avoid suspicion while framing DC, and why you are so completely certain that Aeres should be lynched. UGH this makes a good amount of my analysis worthless. -_- | ||
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On November 02 2010 10:55 NB wrote: ok you are right!.. its 6vs5... close remind me of you voting for InfiniteStory to check if anyone protecting him or not  tbh it is 7 vs 5 following kitaman's vote | ||
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On November 02 2010 11:18 NB wrote: hmm, i wana have you guys opinion on this: so Node said DCLXVI will die tonight! we also lost our 1 and only bodyguard! who should the medic protect night2? mayor or DCLXVI assuming we only have 1 medic?.... why assume this? also, why are DrH and DC your only candidates for protect? | ||
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On November 02 2010 11:40 L wrote: Uh, so, that's... a town mediated hit? Mafia doesn't send in their hits during the day unless they have a dayvig, and if they had a Dayvig, they could just shoot just prior to the vote close to fuck over Node/Medic reactions. So Node's probably not detecting dayvigs. Did I miss something day 1? I'm pretty sure I did. At the very end of Night 1, Node claimed that he knew BrownBear was going to die. He then claimed that his role was "oracle," which allowed him to see at the beginning of each day one player who's slated to die that night. DCLXVI is, according to Node, slated to die tonight. Possible connections between Node's role and the +1 part of mafia's 2+1 KP have been brought up. One suggestion in particular says that there's a red with the role of killing one guy randomly each night, and Node gets to find out who that is at the start of the day. The possibility of Node being a red baiting medics has also been brought up. | ||
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