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On November 01 2010 07:34 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 07:33 CubEdIn wrote:
O...kay. stop it. Got it.
And yeah I have been trying to follow but there's SO MUCH SPAM and wrecking havok. I go out for 3 hours, I come back to 10 pages. That's too much. Haunted was worse with the Time: Posts ratio... It does seem like there are a bunch of people missing very key events though.
I don't feel so. It's been one night, one day here, and there are almost 50% of the posts that were in Haunted mafia (in total, it's ~1370 to ~2820). So yeah.
And I might have skimmed over the discussion, but since I wasn't aware of the NO PM rule (see my mistake early in night1) it must've just felt "normal" to me, just a bunch of people arguing.
And you'll see what I mean as spam when 6 ppl reply the same thing to my question. 
Not saying that I don't like activity, but I read every single post in haunted, and with this I feel overwhelmed. I'll try to keep up.
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Well this is confusing.
So now, most of the game revolves around DrH.
If he manages to lynch a red tonight, we can be pretty sure he's townie.
Either way, the Mafia can either
- go for him, since he's the mayor and one bodyguard is dead
- not go for him, since if he lynches townies and we get a few more of these incriminating posts, the townies might turn against him eventually.
My main concern is that we really don't know if we should trust DrH or not. I was hoping on his poke revealing something, but he got (conveniently) role-blocked.
We should have some form of trust going on, but there's nothing of the kind.
I just hope some sort of Mafia dies, or we're gonna be sinking fast.
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The more I think about it, the more absurd this is.
How exactly is the town supposed to fight back?
Assuming that the mafia know about all their members, then it's quite easy to dispose of the town, due to the uncertainty that is dominating this game.
The town has no clues, no faith in anyone at all (not even mods), no possibility of PMing, what are we left with?
Talks in the thread which do nothing but help Mafia pick their targets more easily. They have gone for veterans first (easy to kill ones, not the mayor or confirmed doctors), and all they have to do is sit back and try to divert attention during the votes.
I think that the town got stripped of way too many things at once (clues, ok, but PMs as welll?, having faith in mods or their own roles?!), and if mafia don't have their own back-firing mechanics, then it's safe to say that the town is pretty much screwed.
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On November 01 2010 08:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 08:42 CubEdIn wrote:
Well this is confusing.
So now, most of the game revolves around DrH.
If he manages to lynch a red tonight, we can be pretty sure he's townie.
Either way, the Mafia can either
- go for him, since he's the mayor and one bodyguard is dead
- not go for him, since if he lynches townies and we get a few more of these incriminating posts, the townies might turn against him eventually.
My main concern is that we really don't know if we should trust DrH or not. I was hoping on his poke revealing something, but he got (conveniently) role-blocked.
We should have some form of trust going on, but there's nothing of the kind.
I just hope some sort of Mafia dies, or we're gonna be sinking fast. The second part here is possibly a BIG slip up. Firstly, the mayor only decides the lynch on day 1. From now on we as a town vote together. My vote is worth 2 votes. Secondly how do you know if I was roleblocked? I don't even know that for sure. jcarlsoniv is the only one who can confirm whether I was roleblocked or not. The only way you could know if I was roleblocked, is if you are the roleblocker.
Sure, you're the one who posted that you got role-blocked.
You were supposed to poke me (you said so, if I recall correctly), which would have somewhat confirmed both our roles. You chose not to (and it's fair, you play the game however you want), and now nothing happened, but we're supposed to just believe that you actually DID something, but had no result. Why?
And yes, since you are the mayor, you have the most influence over the town, and not just because of the double vote. You wanted this, you are now the leader, it's basically your responsibility to hone in on Mafia. That's the way I see it, at least. Mayor doesn't only come with perks. It's only normal that if you lynch townies, people will start to think you're red.
Also:
"He found that his door got duct taped over so he couldn't get out. Luckly for him, he wouldn't have arrived at the right's person's home (some idiot kidnapped the people). As he staggered around looking for help, another person decided to take his clothes, and replace them with a weird smelling rag. At least other people came and helped him, after prodding him for two hours. That poor guy."
Why exactly are you assuming that it's either YOU got role-blocked or he's clean? Why can't it be that special actions on one guy (like jcarl) just won't work. I get the "door duct taped so he couldn't get out" but the rest of the text doesn't look like the other people got role-blocked. And in the end he's out of the house anyway, it doesn't make much sense.
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I'm only putting a lot on you because you're the mayor. Your actions count more than the others'. At least in my view.
I never said you said "for sure" that you got role-blocked, but you're the one that said that you could have had been role-blocked (god, English, stop being so twisted). So naturally, it made me suspicious.
Of all the people that I want to be sure of, you're the most important. I was hoping to be able to role-check you SOMEHOW (not necessarily by poking me), and if we can't, it's frustrating.
Even more so that we can't actually believe ANYTHING that's happening or anything that anyone says (even though they might believe it themselves).
So put all that together with the fact that we still no nothing about our mayor during day 2, makes me itch. I want something that I can be at least semi-confident in, in this insane game. I'm sorry if it seems like rage towards you, but as I said, I have most suspicion and most faith going towards you.
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On November 01 2010 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 09:05 CubEdIn wrote:
I'm only putting a lot on you because you're the mayor. Your actions count more than the others'. At least in my view.
I never said you said "for sure" that you got role-blocked, but you're the one that said that you could have had been role-blocked (god, English, stop being so twisted). So naturally, it made me suspicious.
Of all the people that I want to be sure of, you're the most important. I was hoping to be able to role-check you SOMEHOW (not necessarily by poking me), and if we can't, it's frustrating.
Even more so that we can't actually believe ANYTHING that's happening or anything that anyone says (even though they might believe it themselves).
So put all that together with the fact that we still no nothing about our mayor during day 2, makes me itch. I want something that I can be at least semi-confident in, in this insane game. I'm sorry if it seems like rage towards you, but as I said, I have most suspicion and most faith going towards you. Because jcarlsoniv hasn't posted yet. Until he posts I can't make ANY conclusions about whether or not I may have been roleblocked or not. You said "you posted that you got roleblocked", not that "You posted that you might have been roleblocked". Is that what you meant? Because if thats what you meant thats what you should have said. What I meant by "putting a lot on me" is "implying I said things that I didn't say and drawing conclusions from my posts that I never came to in the first place".
I understand what you're saying, but to me it makes no difference.
If you are blue, then you really don't know if you got role-blocked or not, and neither do we, and we'll find out eventually.
If you are red, then you could just imply that you could've been role-blocked (you don't need to say "oh I was surely role-blocked" when "umm, i think i may have been" will do just as well), and have the same outcome.
So I understand you being annoyed for me trying to put words in your mouth, but in fact, I just meant that you're either trustworthy (and you really have no idea), or untrustworthy (and you can state/imply/hint at) whatever you want to draw suspicion away.
I never elaborated on the fact that you knew you were role-blocked or not, I just said that (were you red), it would've been mighty convenient. I think that's the part of my original post that got misunderstood.
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On November 01 2010 09:24 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I cannot confirm this Dr.H, I did not receive a PM from the mods saying I was poked.
Damn it!
So. We can tell almost for sure that we have role-blockers (3 ppl claimed that they might've been, + the night 1 comments with the door sticky-icky).
Is there any way that we can turn this into something that can help the town? Any way that we can uncover a few blues at once so we can have some solid ground?
I seriously think that if we don't get a trust circle going soon, town will get horribly raped (and also lose the insane mafia game). And with that, and being further confused by this game, I shall go sleep.
See you in 10 hours or so.
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Alright, this game is giving me a headache.
To everyone who passes by, please read this post. It's the best I can do to contribute.
Events
- DrH failed to prove himself, not the most horrible thing that could happen but pretty bad.
- Unless he pokes someone, and THAT someone is uninfected AND gets a message that he has been poked by Dr.H we cannot confirm that he's blue.
If mr.sticky is contaminating people, then we're not going to be able to figure out if dr.H is blue or not. But if he can just "check" blues for contamination, then we can assume that he is (since, supposedly, Mafia already knows who is infected and who is not).
Does everyone agree to this so far? Does anyone have a better idea of outing Dr.H?
The only hole in this, is that if sticky infects, and that person just gets a message of "hi you've been poked" and we all think it's ok when in fact that person is infected (and was not infected before hand).
Do people even know if they're infected?
- Aeres lied his butt off, and caused a lot of chaos. I don't really care if it was a bad play or not, since it didn't help the town at all. Sure, someone else claimed bodyguard, but it's Insane mafia, you can't do something like that and then argue that you were trying to draw hits. And you can't guarantee that by PMing someone you trust because there are no PMs. So don't screw this game over from day1 one like that. You might be a townie with a heart of gold, but I'll probably vote for you today. I don't want shit-storms like this happening again, we're gonna hit 100 pages in day 2 ffs.
Solution
I was thinking about this last night when I went to sleep.
What does the town have, as a weapon, to fight the mafia? No PMs, No circle of trust, no clues. Then what?
Basically, all we have is numbers, in my opinion. We can do a calculated sweep if enough people stop spamming, WIFOM, ifs, buts, maybes, etc. All we have to do is say what we think (like Ace did, regarding aeres) and see what comes out of it.
If we don't try to get some REASON in here, we're dead. It's as easy as that.
I know a lot of you will not care and keep causing chaos, but it's really NOT helping the town. We know of some blue roles (even though we can't confirm them), maybe some others will come up as well (no, I'm not asking people to role-claim). But we can be sure of one thing:
Not everyone is going to lie.
So if we base our decisions on majorities rather than on what ONE person said, we could get something going.
I hope this is understood, please feel free to ask me to explain whatever parts of this post.
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On November 01 2010 22:52 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 20:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again. I have the power to confirm my role to another player. Obviously there is the possibility that this role can be disrupted by other roles or that the person who I confirm to could lie about it. Both are possible. There is also a possibility my role is insane in some way but there is nothing in my role PM to make me believe that and Artanis alluded to the fact that if a role was indeed deceptive in some way that there would be some sort of clue within the role description itself. I haven't said much yet, but I might as well clarify it here. I don't buy it. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 19:07 CubEdIn wrote:
Alright, this game is giving me a headache.
To everyone who passes by, please read this post. It's the best I can do to contribute.
Events
- DrH failed to prove himself, not the most horrible thing that could happen but pretty bad.
- Unless he pokes someone, and THAT someone is uninfected AND gets a message that he has been poked by Dr.H we cannot confirm that he's blue.
If mr.sticky is contaminating people, then we're not going to be able to figure out if dr.H is blue or not. But if he can just "check" blues for contamination, then we can assume that he is (since, supposedly, Mafia already knows who is infected and who is not).
Seems like some players are misunderstanding this scenario. We can only prove DH's role ability, but that does not necessarily make him "blue" or town. Mafia can very well have this "Sticky" role too. The only way we can confirm DH's alignment, is if we can prove his poking ability, to prove he is not God Father, and have an alignment DT, if this role exist, check him.
Did you understand what I mean though? If we can prove that he is able to poke people, AND not infect them, then it's quite positive that he's blue.
Why? Because Mafia would not need a player who can "test" if people are infected, since they control the infection and already KNOW who is infected and who is not. It's really simple.
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On November 02 2010 01:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 01:44 LSB wrote:
Last game BC swindled me into roleclaiming to him.
I don't know if there are any smurfs, but just to clarify I didn't swindle shit -_-
Silence, swindler!
No, but seriously, a whole day has passed and I'm nowhere near trusting anyone in this game. What the hell is going on?
I don't think that any amount of detective work will clear this up. All we have to do is be honest and try to figure it out logically. There's no way that we'll come up with a good route to win this by casting blame every 3 posts.
I'm willing to trust Dr.H (heck, I voted for him) for today. It's not like we have much to do other than vote anyway.
So, mayor of ours, what are your honest thoughts about who to lynch, and why.
So far, my thoughts are:
Aeres - For lying (not gonna buy that village idiot thing, there are better ways of getting lynched)
Gleese - For being hella annoying (let's all participate in a quick game of kick the cat!) - though I wouldn't vote for him, because he's pushing too hard.
And that's about it. I don't think I'd vote for anyone else as of now. Not that it matters much, you people will keep causing chaos.
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Also, I wasn't suspecting Aeres of being the Village Idiot until he UNvoted for himself. Now it seems like bad-vi-play. I dunno what to say, but since there's no better option, he's still most targeted in my eyes.
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On November 02 2010 11:27 Ace wrote:
Cubed is allegedly a medic. He's doing the RebirthofLegend thing and self-protting though.
Yes, but it's only been one night, and Mafia knows for sure if I am a medic or not.
Also, I was under the impression that DrH would poke me, and that would both prove his role/mine, and I would not get infected if his stick was indeed causing the infection as well.
I might not self-protect if I see someone who seems like a reasonable target. But I will most likely follow my own instincts, as this thread is 75% base on "what if"s "maybe"s and "let's assume". I don't like that.
What I do like is that we have a stronger PM circle with people who role-claimed. This isn't directly helpful to the town, but it's better than what we have right now (nothing). So I'll probably bandwaggon Fish's votes for the time being, if nothing better comes along.
Also, I'll probably follow Dr.H's votes as well, since he seems to at least try to base his statements on reason rather then double/triple assumptions that lead to the possibility of maybe having a chance of a probable suspect.
I'm starting to believe more and more that the town will only have chances to win if a lot of people role-claim. But then again this could also lead to more confusing based on what the roles would be. So I'm pretty much screwed in my voting pick.
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On November 02 2010 21:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 20:42 Coagulation wrote:On November 02 2010 20:32 Glasse wrote:
BLAARH BLAHBLAH BLARBBLAB LBLABLARBLAR
BLAHBLAH BLERP BLA BLARPLRAPRLBALERRR Dude... Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 20:32 Glasse wrote:
I feel like you are red now because i'm obviously town.
And i can prove it. Oh really now? I'm interested. Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 18:22 CubEdIn wrote:On November 02 2010 11:27 Ace wrote:
Cubed is allegedly a medic. He's doing the RebirthofLegend thing and self-protting though. Yes, but it's only been one night, and Mafia knows for sure if I am a medic or not. Also, I was under the impression that DrH would poke me, and that would both prove his role/mine, and I would not get infected if his stick was indeed causing the infection as well. I might not self-protect if I see someone who seems like a reasonable target. But I will most likely follow my own instincts, as this thread is 75% base on "what if"s "maybe"s and "let's assume". I don't like that. What I do like is that we have a stronger PM circle with people who role-claimed. This isn't directly helpful to the town, but it's better than what we have right now (nothing). So I'll probably bandwaggon Fish's votes for the time being, if nothing better comes along. Also, I'll probably follow Dr.H's votes as well, since he seems to at least try to base his statements on reason rather then double/triple assumptions that lead to the possibility of maybe having a chance of a probable suspect. I'm starting to believe more and more that the town will only have chances to win if a lot of people role-claim. But then again this could also lead to more confusing based on what the roles would be. So I'm pretty much screwed in my voting pick. I think I may have missed when you claimed as medic. How does the Mafia know for sure if you are or not?
I claimed about 7 hours into night 1, after DrH was elected.
I had to choose between being a normal townie or being a doctor but the mafia being informed of my role. The role's name is Neo.
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Glasse, if you had the option not to reveal yourself, then you should've gone with it.
Why? Because your opinion in an admin post, carefully concealed, would have given it extra weight.
It's your choice to disclose, and I'm fine with it, but you would have been in a much stronger position if you had hidden it.
Of course, it would depend on how good a player you are. If your ideas were wrong, you would've hurt the town a lot, but if they were on mark, then it would've been that more awesome.
Either way, the only reason why I'm not 100% convinced I should vote for Aeres is that he MIGHT be some sort of village idiot.
Lying, confessing, voting for himself, being accused of having voted for himself -> Village Idiot? cause him of reversing his vote right away... I don't know, it just reeks like Village Idiot bad play to me.
But the thing is, Mafia won't go for him, since he's causing too much havoc anyway, so if we don't lynch him I guess we'll never know.
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On November 03 2010 02:10 L wrote:Show nested quote +I had to choose between being a normal townie or being a doctor but the mafia being informed of my role. The role's name is Neo. You're holding someone back, because as far as it stands right now, its never the right choice to pick townie.
Obviously. The only up in being townie is nobody knowing your role, and being able to claim whatever the heck you want, I guess.
But believe it or not, those were my only two options. In fact, it was clearly specified "Take the blue pill, and you become a normal townie." Nothing more, nothing less.
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Oh, I understand, you think I picked townie? No.
I picked doctor, that's why I roleclaimed straight away. No use in just the mafia knowing what I am.
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I agree, it would take a large amount of balls to try and lead the town like that, but if you're not at least half-sure, you can just not leave obvious clues and keep it gibberish.
I guess the thing with role-claiming is that it's quite an unique, cool role, and now that we know what it is, it lost all its charm. 
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So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.
IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.
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On November 03 2010 02:29 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.
IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit. I think L's point is that no one would have any reason to pick normal townie, so why were you given the choice if it isn't really a choice.
Ask Artanis. :D
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On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.
IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit. His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume.
Speculating, I'd say that most people in my position would pick doctor and then would have to role-claim (no use in only Mafia knowing of the role, right?). So, in a game with no PMs, the roleclaim would have to be done to everyone, leading to this kind of discussions, causing more chaos.
I was expecting something like this to happen, but there's really not much I can do or say to prove I'm right (other than going to protect whoever you want me to, and getting killed by the mafia, so you'll have your proof in the mod post).
@ Glasse, you don't understand, posts like that would make the Mafia suspect they can't trust everyone in their team.
You could use it to turn mafia against each other, if worded properly, and implying that there's some sort of role that could cause a back-stab kill in the Mafia ranks.
Of course, it's a long shot, but it's better than not doing anything at all.
And what part WASN'T from you?
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EPT
