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Pick Your Power Mafia 2! - Page 5

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 18:46 GMT
#1676
Do not vote for anyone. I may have something verry important (coming in just a few minutes).
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 19:20 GMT
#1681
SiNiquity's Guaranteed Plan to Win
Does not rely on special powers (Bullet Bill, Tracker, Meth Head, etc).


FACTS


Confirmed: 4
Mafia: 2
Remaining: 9

  1. Citi.zen: Tracker
  2. ~OpZ~: ---
  3. SiNiquity: ---
  4. Bumatlarge: Watcher (Batman)
  5. Fishball: Bullet Bill (has been roleblocked)
  6. Rastaban: Compulsive Vigilante (has been roleblocked)
  7. Pandain: ---
  8. BrownBear: ---
  9. Divinek: Day Vigilante (shot used)


  • Divinek ==> Rastaban (99%)
  • Rastaban ==> Divinek (99%)
  • No Roleblocker <==> Rastaban and Fishball (100%)


On September 04 2010 11:44 SiNiquity wrote:
If we hit town every night (i.e. we suck / worst case scenario):
With CV
    • Lynch,
    • Mafia Kill, CV, Tracker, Bullet Bill
    • 2 Mafia, 4 Town

    • Lynch,
    • Mafia Kill, CV, Tracker, Bullet Bill
    • 2 Mafia, 1 town.



Without CV
    • Lynch CV
    • Mafia Kill, Tracker, Bullet Bill
    • 2 Mafia, 5 Town

    • Lynch,
    • Mafia Kill, Tracker, Bullet Bill
    • 2 Mafia, 3 Town

    • Lynch,
    • Mafia Kill, Tracker, Bullet Bill
    • 2 Mafia, 1 Town




Last Night: Fishball was roleblocked [IMPORTANT!]

Using this information, we can now win the game of Mafia without the use of any roles. READ THIS CAREFULLY. I've looked it over and do not see any flaws, but I'm not perfect.

If there are no flaws found within the next hour, vote Rastaban and gg.

Lynch Rastaban
  • If Mafia:
    • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Divinek, Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain)
    • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 4 remaining, 6 town total)
    • Lynch Fishball.
    • If Mafia: Town wins
    • If Town:
      • Roleblocker exists (therefore cannot be Divinek - this is how he got confirmed).
      • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch Brownbear or Pandain
      • If Roleblocker: Town Wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia hits confirmed townie (2 remaining, 2 town total).
        • Lynch BrownBear / Pandain. Town wins



  • If Town:
    • Roleblocker exists
    • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (3 remaining, 5 town total)
    • Remaining 2 Mafia are in (Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain), and at least 1 of (Brownbear, Pandain) is Roleblocker.
    • Lynch BrownBear or Pandain
    • If Roleblocker:
      • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Fishball, Brownbear/Pandain)
      • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch BrownBear/Pandain (IMPORTANT! Must ensure BrownBear/Pandain is not JOAT).
      • If Mafia: Town wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (1 remaining, 2 town total)
        • Lynch Fishball. Town wins


    • If Town:
      • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch Roleblocker (other candidate of BrownBear / Pandain)
      • Remaining 1 Mafia is Fishball (or highly unlikely, Divinek)
      • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (1 remaining, 3 town total)
      • Lynch Fishball
      • If Mafia: Town wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (0 remaining, 2 town total)
        • Lynch Divinek. Town Wins
        • Divinek is fucking stupid for wasting his Day Vig on Bill Murray




'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 19:31 GMT
#1682
EBWOP: Of course as soon as I post it I notice a couple of mistakes -_-. Not sure if it's 100% under the revised edition. Gimmie couple minutes.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 19:51 GMT
#1683
SiNiquity's Almost Guaranteed Plan to Win
Does not rely on special powers (Bullet Bill, Tracker, Meth Head, etc).
Does rely on Rasta ==> Divinek


Lynch Rastaban
  • If Mafia:
    • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Divinek, Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain)
    • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 4 remaining, 6 town total)
    • Lynch Fishball.
    • If Mafia: Town wins
    • If Town:
      • Roleblocker exists (therefore cannot be Divinek - this is how he got confirmed).
      • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch Brownbear or Pandain
      • If Roleblocker: Town Wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia hits confirmed townie (2 remaining, 2 town total).
        • Lynch BrownBear / Pandain. Town wins



  • If Town:
    • Roleblocker exists
    • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (3 remaining, 5 town total)
    • Remaining 2 Mafia are in (Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain, [Divinek]), and at least 1 of (Brownbear, Pandain) is Roleblocker.
    • Lynch BrownBear or Pandain
    • If Roleblocker:
      • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Fishball, Brownbear/Pandain, [Divinek])
      • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch BrownBear/Pandain (IMPORTANT! Must ensure BrownBear/Pandain is not JOAT).
      • If Mafia: Town wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (1 remaining, 2 town total)
        • Lynch Fishball.
        • If Mafia: Town wins
        • If Town:
          • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (0 remaining, 0 town remaining)
          • Mafia win
          • Divinek is a genius for assassinating BM instead of Rasta.



    • If Town:
      • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 3 town total)
      • Lynch Roleblocker (other candidate of BrownBear / Pandain)
      • Remaining 1 Mafia is Fishball (or highly unlikely, Divinek)
      • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (1 remaining, 2 town total)
      • Lynch Fishball
      • If Mafia: Town wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (0 remaining, 0 town total)
        • Mafia win
        • Divinek is a genius for assassinating BM instead of Rasta.





Now about Rasta ==> Divinek. I think it highly unlikely that Divinek would waste an opportunity to grab CV for the Mafia. Granted he did shoot BM, #18, who according to the plan had a 50% chance of being JOAT supposing it had slipped through #6 (50%), #9 (50%) and #12 (25%). It's very much a WIFOM argument - shoot low on the list, avoid suspicion, but pass up a chance at the CV role for Mafia.

Anyway, mull it over.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 20:42 GMT
#1691
Sorry just got back from the store.

## Vote Rastaban.

I have some updates that make this even more secure.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 21:11 GMT
#1692
Also, while we're at it: would you like to roleclaim BrownBear?
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 22:01 GMT
#1700
I'm 95% sure I may have a fix for this (can currently guarantee if we get roleblocker on first lynch after Rasta flips town that we win). Pretty sure I can patch up the rest too so that it's all 100% guaranteed. Bear with me.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 22:21 GMT
#1704
@Pandain:

Oh what I would give to have BM in your place right now

You're not fooling anyone. Ace declared earlier that you would need to unpardon in the thread (which you didn't), not in PMs, and Zeks was lynched anyway.

Despite the fact you can't do what you're alleging to do, even if you could, you and Rasta would be up on the chopping block and I wouldn't be making this ridiculous FSM.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 22:31 GMT
#1706
I know but I had to take a second to make sure it couldn't be true, because it definitely made my heart skip
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 05 2010 22:59 GMT
#1707
SiNiquity's Guaranteed Plan to Win (2.0)
Does not rely on utilizing special powers (Bullet Bill, Tracker, Meth Head, etc) in a lucky way.
Does not rely on Rasta ==> Divinek


Note: Not including the case where Rasta is Mafia as that case is solved (see above post).

Lynch Rastaban
  • If Town:
    • Roleblocker exists
    • Pandain protects Citi.zen
    • Fishball checks BrownBear
    • Citi.zen tracks BrownBear
    • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (3 remaining, 5 town total)
    • Remaining 2 Mafia are in (Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain, [Divinek]), and at least 1 of (Brownbear, Pandain) is Roleblocker.
    • If Citi.zen is killed by Mafia:
      • If Fishball was roleblocked (according to him):
        • Lynch Pandain
        • If Town:
          • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 3 town total)
          • Lynch Fishball (lied), then Lynch BrownBear (roleblocked Pandain). Town wins

        • If Mafia:
          • If not RoleBlocker, Lynch BrownBear. Town wins
          • If is RoleBlocker, proceed to [Roleblocker killed on 1st hit]


      • If Fishball was not roleblocked:
        • Pandain must've been roleblocked by BrownBear. Ask Fishball to confirm this.
        • If FishBall confirms that BrownBear has a gun:
          • Lynch BrownBear
          • If RoleBlocker, proceed to [Roleblocker killed on 1st hit]
          • If Mafia but not RoleBlocker, Lynch Pandain. Town wins.
          • If Town:
            • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 3 total).
            • Lynch FishBall (lied). Lynch Pandain (Roleblocker). Town wins.


        • If FishBall says BrownBear does not have a gun:
          • Lynch Pandain
          • If RoleBlocker, proceed to [Roleblocker killed on 1st hit]
          • If Mafia, but not Roleblocker: Lynch BrownBear. Town wins
          • If Town:
            • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 3 total).
            • Lynch Fishball (lied). Lynch BrownBear (Roleblocker). Town wins.




    • If Citi.zen is not killed by Mafia:
      • Use either FishBall or Citi.zen's results of BrownBear (only one could be roleblocked).
      • If has a gun / went somewhere: Lynch BrownBear
      • If Mafia but not RoleBlocker:
        • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 4 town total)
        • Lynch Pandain (RoleBlocker) Town wins

      • If RoleBlocker: Proceed to [Roleblocker killed on 1st hit]
      • If Town:
        • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 3 town total)
        • Must've been based on Fishball. Lynch Fishball (lied).
        • Mafia kills someone from Chaoser's list (1 remaining, 2 town total)
        • Lynch Pandain (RoleBlocker). Town wins


    • [Roleblocker killed on 1st hit] (for simplicity assuming BrownBear was Roleblocker, but could be Pandain).
      • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Fishball, Pandain, [Divinek])
      • Fishball checks Pandain (can't be roleblocked)
      • Mafia hits someone from Chaoser's list (2 remaining, 4 town total)
      • If Pandain is carrying a gun according to Fishball:
        • Lynch Pandain.
        • If Town: Mafia hits someone from the list (1 remaining, 2 town total). Lynch Fishball. Town wins
        • If Mafia: Town wins

      • If Pandain is clean according to Fishball:
        • Lynch Divinek
        • If Town: Mafia hits someone from the list (1 remaining, 2 town total). Lynch Fishball. Town wins
        • If Mafia: Town wins




'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 06 2010 04:11 GMT
#1720
LOL fml -_- I went and figured out the guaranteed win for if Rasta was town, and turns out he's Mafia (the easy case). Should've waited until he flipped, but worth it just for the proof of concept.

Well gg fellas

On September 06 2010 04:20 SiNiquity wrote:
SiNiquity's Guaranteed Plan to Win


Lynch Rastaban (Done)
  • If Mafia: (Done)
    • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Divinek, Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain)
    • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 4 remaining, 6 town total)
    • Lynch Fishball. (Next Step)
    • If Mafia: Town wins
    • If Town:
      • Roleblocker exists (therefore cannot be Divinek - this is how he got confirmed).
      • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch Brownbear or Pandain
      • If Roleblocker: Town Wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia hits confirmed townie (2 remaining, 2 town total).
        • Lynch BrownBear / Pandain. Town wins




'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 06 2010 04:20 GMT
#1722
It's deserving of the emphasis tho, if I may be so conceited.

Also bringing it to the top of the page so it doesn't get lost.

On September 06 2010 04:20 SiNiquity wrote:
SiNiquity's Guaranteed Plan to Win


Lynch Rastaban (Done)
  • If Mafia: (Done)
    • Remaining 1 Mafia is in (Divinek, Fishball, Brownbear, Pandain)
    • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 4 remaining, 6 town total)
    • Lynch Fishball. (Next Step)
    • If Mafia: Town wins
    • If Town:
      • Roleblocker exists (therefore cannot be Divinek - this is how he got confirmed).
      • Mafia hits confirmed townie (3 remaining, 4 town total)
      • Lynch Brownbear or Pandain
      • If Roleblocker: Town Wins
      • If Town:
        • Mafia hits confirmed townie (2 remaining, 2 town total).
        • Lynch BrownBear / Pandain. Town wins





'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
September 06 2010 23:21 GMT
#1752
Yes, and get rid of the 2nd number bit for the draft. Using it as a tie-breaker is moot, as then what if the 2nd numbers tie? Eventually you need a method of choosing independent of the chosen numbers (i.e. dice roll in this game), so why bother with even having more than 1 tie breaker.

I also like the idea of the most unique number (higher being better naturally).
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 02:09:35
September 07 2010 02:06 GMT
#1757
On September 07 2010 09:03 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 08:21 SiNiquity wrote:
Yes, and get rid of the 2nd number bit for the draft. Using it as a tie-breaker is moot, as then what if the 2nd numbers tie? Eventually you need a method of choosing independent of the chosen numbers (i.e. dice roll in this game), so why bother with even having more than 1 tie breaker.

I also like the idea of the most unique number (higher being better naturally).


nah I need the second number because without it everyone will pick low numbers and pray for a good role. Picking 2 different numbers is easier than picking 1 different number. From now on I'll make sure that in the case of ties it's broken by uniqueness before order. So in this example:

[7][3]
[7][7]
[5][7]
[5][6]
[5][6]


Even though both sets have ties (7 and 5) I'll push 7 ahead in the draft order since that is more unique than 5. Then the 7s get resolved the normal way (3 before 7) and the 5s go through another unique tie break. In this case [5][7] is more unique than [5][6] so it goes before both of them. Then the two [5][6] players are resolved by dice roll. Thoughts?


Problem
Your system is not designed with a player's goal in mind. Your justification for keeping the 2 number system is that it's easier to pick 2 unique numbers instead of 1 unique number. But that's not the player's goal. The goal is to optimize one's position in the list, which hinges on picking the highest unique number. There is little strategy involved with choosing the second number, and it is not justified in the additional complexity.

Proof
Here's the strategy for choosing the second number. For N > 0, suppose you anticipate overlapping with N players. Then you should choose a number between N (safest, assuming minimal overlap, RNG with the last guy for 2nd to last place) and (N+1)/2 rounded up (riskiest, assuming maximal overlap). This holds both in the current system and in the proposed uniqueness-first system (except the safest bet is N+1 instead of N for N > 1).

In the case of N = 1 (arguably the most common case), the optimal answer is always 1 (giving you a 50% chance at the top spot, compared to a 0% chance for any other number choice). Furthermore, the penalty for overlapping in the second column is negligible when compared to overlapping in the first column, and as a result you'll see riskier play here. This mostly explains the distribution of the second column: 35% (7) of the players chose [*][1] and 15% chose [*][2], and those that chose various numbers such as 9, 20, etc. just didn't take the time to analyze the problem (or perhaps misunderstood it).

Solution
However, since you seem interested in keeping the second column, then I suggest the following: all overlappers are thrown into a single pool, completely disregarding their initial choice, and ordered entirely based on their second number. Overlaps here would follow the current system (edit: with the addition of uniqueness taking priority), with overlaps being bumped to the bottom and RNG'ing within their subgroup for order.

In the current system, your first number choice is shooting either for a low number and hope it's not overlapping (e.g. BrownBear's 20), or for a high number but running under the assumption it will probably overlap (e.g. 75% of players choosing numbers 10 or less).

In the new system, your first number choice is first and foremost a unique number, as its rank is meaningless if it's not unique. The second number then will play much like the current first number, albeit on a slightly smaller scale (as the pool size will be smaller, yet just how much smaller will not be known from the outset - an interesting twist IMO). This gets you closer to your stated goal: players choosing 2 unique numbers.

Hope you take this into consideration Ace.
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
SiNiquity
Profile Joined April 2010
United States734 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-08 00:40:55
September 07 2010 11:48 GMT
#1766
On September 07 2010 12:51 Qatol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2010 12:37 Ace wrote:
On September 07 2010 11:06 SiNiquity wrote:
On September 07 2010 09:03 Ace wrote:
On September 07 2010 08:21 SiNiquity wrote:
Yes, and get rid of the 2nd number bit for the draft. Using it as a tie-breaker is moot, as then what if the 2nd numbers tie? Eventually you need a method of choosing independent of the chosen numbers (i.e. dice roll in this game), so why bother with even having more than 1 tie breaker.

I also like the idea of the most unique number (higher being better naturally).


nah I need the second number because without it everyone will pick low numbers and pray for a good role. Picking 2 different numbers is easier than picking 1 different number. From now on I'll make sure that in the case of ties it's broken by uniqueness before order. So in this example:

[7][3]
[7][7]
[5][7]
[5][6]
[5][6]


Even though both sets have ties (7 and 5) I'll push 7 ahead in the draft order since that is more unique than 5. Then the 7s get resolved the normal way (3 before 7) and the 5s go through another unique tie break. In this case [5][7] is more unique than [5][6] so it goes before both of them. Then the two [5][6] players are resolved by dice roll. Thoughts?


Problem
Your system is not designed with a player's goal in mind. Your justification for keeping the 2 number system is that it's easier to pick 2 unique numbers instead of 1 unique number. But that's not the player's goal. The goal is to optimize one's position in the list, which hinges on picking the highest unique number. There is little strategy involved with choosing the second number, and it is not justified in the additional complexity.

Proof
Here's the strategy for choosing the second number. For N > 0, suppose you anticipate overlapping with N players. Then you should choose a number between N (safest, assuming minimal overlap, RNG with the last guy for 2nd to last place) and (N+1)/2 rounded up (riskiest, assuming maximal overlap). This holds both in the current system and in the proposed uniqueness-first system (except the safest bet is N+1 instead of N for N > 1).

In the case of N = 1 (arguably the most common case), the optimal answer is always 1 (giving you a 50% chance at the top spot, compared to a 0% chance for any other number choice). Furthermore, the penalty for overlapping in the second column is negligible when compared to overlapping in the first column, and as a result you'll see riskier play here. This mostly explains the distribution of the second column: 35% (7) of the players chose [*][1] and 15% chose [*][2], and those that chose various numbers such as 9, 20, etc. just didn't take the time to analyze the problem (or perhaps misunderstood it).

Solution
However, since you seem interested in keeping the second column, then I suggest the following: all overlappers are thrown into a single pool, completely disregarding their initial choice, and ordered entirely based on their second number. Overlaps here would follow the current system (edit: with the addition of uniqueness taking priority), with overlaps being bumped to the bottom and RNG'ing within their subgroup for order.

In the current system, your first number choice is shooting either for a low number and hope it's not overlapping (e.g. BrownBear's 20), or for a high number but running under the assumption it will probably overlap (e.g. 75% of players choosing numbers 10 or less).

In the new system, your first number choice is first and foremost a unique number, as its rank is meaningless if it's not unique. The second number then will play much like the current first number, albeit on a slightly smaller scale (as the pool size will be smaller, yet just how much smaller will not be known from the outset - an interesting twist IMO). This gets you closer to your stated goal: players choosing 2 unique numbers.

Hope you take this into consideration Ace.


Your solution is actually the old way I did it. If you for example had 3 people pick [8][N] then I slotted you based on N. If you had the same N I RNG'd you. Also, you don't mean this by pooling ALL players do you? :

[8][*]
[8][*]
[12][*]
[12][*]
[12][*]

And now all 5 players are in the same pool, organized by * ?

However I may be misunderstanding what's different about your proposal so you'll have to give me some examples to show me.

I think what he's proposing is something like this:
[8][1]
[8][3]
[5][2]
[5][5]
[5][7]
All of these conflict with another pick on the first number. The final list would look like this:
[8][1]
[5][2]
[8][3]
[5][5]
[5][7]
I guess picks of the same second numbers + a clash on the first number would be resolved randomly?


Divinek's Qatol's got it, where clashes in the second pool get resolved randomly (within their subgroup).
So for example:

[3][4]
[4][5]
- End unique 1st col
[2][3]
[6][6]
[1][7]
- End unique 2nd col
[6][2]*
[1][2]*
[2][1]**
[5][1]**
[5][1]**

Where */** RNG's within their subgroup
'i' before 'e' except after 'c' ~ it's scientifically proven.
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