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Penalty Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
July 22 2010 14:41 GMT
#5
/in
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
July 22 2010 20:17 GMT
#9
can we please get a voting thread? It'd be a lot easier on EVERYONE if there was a place to just look at votes.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 04 2010 02:53 GMT
#53
still in
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 01:03 GMT
#83
I assume there's at least going to be a DT and medic. Do we even have vigis? 7 people, 3 mafia, that's like two day/night cycles in worst case scenario?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 01:13 GMT
#86
oh ok, for some reason I thought there were only 10 people playing, guess it was 10 townies.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 01:14 GMT
#87
what's the difference between all the doctors?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 03:09 GMT
#102
lol, pops in, votes ace
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 16:15 GMT
#148
On August 09 2010 00:28 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 00:13 LSB wrote:
On August 09 2010 00:11 citi.zen wrote:
Bill, do just know Ace, or all the reds? Change vote to them sequentially if you know them, otherwise vote me then go back to w/e.

Pyrr asked that question
On August 08 2010 15:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Hey Bill Murray. I think your role might be that you get a list of the mafia, or at least a partial list of the mafia, but you aren't allowed to talk. You are only allowed to make votes. If this is true, change your vote to scamp again and then to a mafia member that is not ace (if you have more than him) and then back to ace. Or just from scamp to ace if you only know Ace.
Just ignore this if it isn't true.


BM responded
On August 08 2010 16:03 Bill Murray wrote:
unvote
vote scamp

unvote
vote ace

Thanks. If this wasn't the case I was going to suggest lynching Bm after he gives us the list to confirm it. Of course, that would have been a badly overpowered thing to put in the game... so never-mind.


It's be pretty OP even if he got one name of the mafia since we're bound to ask him why he's just voting and then start making guesses to what his penalty is. The two likely ways he's acting the way he is if he's a day-time DT who can only vote and he checked ace or he's just dicking around.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 21:42 GMT
#160
then say it out loud -_-
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 22:41 GMT
#181
## vote Pyrr

for now...it's kinda weird that you fed BM both "post such and such if you mean this" and then he followed suit. Seems like he's following the tune of your flute
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 22:46 GMT
#183
On August 09 2010 07:43 Divinek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 07:41 chaoser wrote:
## vote Pyrr

for now...it's kinda weird that you fed BM both "post such and such if you mean this" and then he followed suit. Seems like he's following the tune of your flute


wait so are you saying bm is red with pyrr...?

or he's just a mindless townie following something someone said because he likes to fuck around?

i'm confused to your line of reasoning here because it doesnt really make sense.

Not that i think what you're saying is totally unreasonable, i mean pyrr practically did invent his role for him incase that wasnt what he already has.

i just want more explanations sir


Not that i think what you're saying is totally unreasonable, i mean pyrr practically did invent his role for him incase that wasnt what he already has.


this, I think it's really weird that right after he voted ace, pyrr just so happened to be like, hey, is it cause you can't talk cause you have information on who's mafia via a list or something and then BM was like vote/unvote. THEN pyrr was like hey, if ace is on the list, vote/unvote and BM did. Seems kinda iffy to me don't you think? But then they got caught with the whole "no post restrictions" thing and have to backtrack now.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 22:47 GMT
#184
I would never think that he had a list or something, just that he couldn't talk for whatever reason, i dunno, it just seemed like an odd jump of logic from

BM: vote Ace

to

Pyrr: do you have a list of mafia/Ace is on that list
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 08 2010 22:59 GMT
#189
He's on vacation I think, he'll be on as soon as he find internet service (he said this in other mafia game)
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 00:08 GMT
#197
On August 09 2010 08:48 bumatlarge wrote:
Alright basically, I am a tree stump. If I use my power, I cannot die, and cannot vote. BUT if I use it, town pop goes down 1, and mafia pop goes up by 1.

I.E. if i used it right now, town population would be 9 and mafia count would be 4. Im assuming that, if all the mafia are lynched out, then town wins regardless.

There are no PMs allowed, so I cant accept mass roleclaim, so I dont really see a reason for me to use it anyway.

##Vote Bill Murray


I don't understand, what would mafia count becoming 4 mean? they have more KP? You become mafia? where's the 4th mafia?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:16 GMT
#236
On August 09 2010 10:12 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2010 10:12 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:04 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:03 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 10:00 citi.zen wrote:
On August 09 2010 07:48 Ace wrote:
On August 09 2010 07:37 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
"If any townies have penalties then you'll know based on your OWN role PM which penalties should make sense when we all claim them."

I don't agree - I have no idea what to expect in other penalties and I don't see how claiming them will make certain people stand out. It might help us plan some strategies but it might help the mafia, too. What if someone's penalty is that they can't do anything till night 4? Then the mafia knows to avoid that person until night 3 and kill them then. What if the penalties for townies look a lot different from the penalties for blues? That could bite us in the ass.


If someone's penalty is they can't do anything until night 4 thats great. Because then we can remove them from any actions that happen at night, and if they still live on Night 4 we ask them to prove their action. Obviously if you can't act until Night 4 which would be ridiculous in any mafia game you've gotta have something damn near game breaking. So if the scum want to let that person until night 3 that's cool with me because before that said person better be going all out doing some intelligent scum hunting. But even all of this is moot because I did say don't make it too obvious what your role could be. On death once your role is revealed we can piece everything together. It doesn't even matter if Vanilla penalties look different than blue penalties - we just need a list of penalties period to even move forward.

So what if it helps the mafia? Would you rather the town not have any direction on where to go and just stumble around mindlessly? It's like complaining that Terran's are making infantry knowing that Zerg has lurkers. Execution of the plan is just as important as the plan itself. If you don't agree come up with a better idea because I'm all ears.

@divinek: now you're starting to get it ^_^

We KNOW for a fact that townies have restrictions and scum don't. They only have fake claims the host gave them. So if we are aware of our own penalties and KNOW that we have to behave a certain way then we can't do things that go against our PM where as scum can because theirs are fake. They can't fake their actions because once we see what most people's penalties look like and people start dying the picture becomes very clear.

Why are we so sure penalties are not linked to roles?

From what I've seen, and knowing my penalty, people with a blue role have penalties pertaining to that role (ex: can't use power Y unless X happens). Greens can't have that type of penalty. Telling everyone "I can't use my power unless X" means you are blue = pleasant sniping reds.

So I'd advise you to reconsider, unless you think some sort of mass role-claim is a good play. In some set-ups that is the case, in this one I personally haven't come to that conclusion.

I'll admit that, as usual, I don't pay close attention on weekends, am I missing something?


no need for role claims yet, just penalties. Like I said I gave you all my penalty and if you all think it's that simple then tell me what my role is ^_^

Look at bumatlarge's penalty claim: no one would know he was a tree stump (role) based on the fact that acting increases mafia population by 1 (penalty). The idea that penalties implies roles is false based on bumatlarge's post and the fact that my penalty also does not imply my role.

That's just it: he has to use his "ability" = he has an "ability". So he's some sort of blue that just got outed.


Being BLUE doesn't matter. You are looking at it wrong. Everyone has a role. EVERYONE. Ignore anything about blue roles for now. We only care about PENALTIES. If bumatlarge didn't tell you he was a tree stump you would never know. zeks just told us his penalty, do you know his role? I told you my penalty, do you know my role? See where I'm going now.

also *yawn* at Pyrr. I didn't out any blues but nice job at trying to spread some panic. I hope the Vigilante or whatever killing role we have shoots you asap.

Are you claiming there are no vanilla townies?


I think there ARE vanilla townies but even they have "actions" aka VOTING. Notice the two examples, shy and scared. They can say, I can only do my action on someone who isn't majority voted or something like that
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:42 GMT
#263
Ace, basically people are staying, if you have an "action", the person is a blue, if you're like I can only vote for non-majority then the person is townie. By making everyone out their penalties, it's easy to see which is blue and which is not. Mafia don't need to know if they are medic/DT/etc., just that they are blue
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:42 GMT
#264
saying*
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:43 GMT
#265
example: if I was like, I can only do my action on people who didn't get voted on, then people might make the judgement that I am blue. But If I was like, I can't vote for someone unless three people already voted for that person, then I'd be more likely to be townie
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:45 GMT
#269
LSB, use blue instead of medic, I think that works better
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:50 GMT
#274
People are not saying mafia will know the specific role of each player, just that they will know if the player is blue or not -_-
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 01:55 GMT
#279
On August 09 2010 10:50 chaoser wrote:
People are not saying mafia will know the specific role of each player, just that they will know if the player is blue or not -_-


please respond to this -_-
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 02:00 GMT
#283
@chaoser: You can't know who's blue. Everyone has a role. Everyone has a penalty. I've already said that if anyone is so sure that knowing penalties will reveal who is blue then tell me what roles myself and zeks have if it's that simple.



On August 09 2010 10:38 citi.zen wrote:
Show nested quote +
Ace : Must telegraph moves to the town before acting
bumatlarge: If acting mafia population goes up by 1, town population goes down by 1
zeks: If lynched, random person(?) on the wagon gets permanent +1 voting power


I am stuck in "regular" mafia land, but to me this translates into:

Ace: weak blue
bumatlarge: strong blue
zeks: vanilla townie

Do we want this info out there?

Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 02:04 GMT
#289
On August 09 2010 11:02 Ace wrote:
@chaoser: If I'm blue then what's my role. How does a voting wagon imply that zeks must be townie?


It doesn't matter what role you are, just that you're blue so mafia would target you. zek's penalty in itself doesn't imply that he is townie, but people with penalties that are linked to "actions" (do action and something happens, must do something and then you can act) are a lot more likely to blue no?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 02:18 GMT
#292
bumatlarge: If acting mafia population goes up by 1, town population goes down by 1


I'm pretty sure when bum says action, he doesn't mean talking or voting...that'd be too simple an action to make the penalty that bad
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 03:18 GMT
#302
well, BM just posted in other thread, I assume we'll get a response from him soon
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 12:49 GMT
#331
wait....seriously? BM comes back, makes a statement about how he's just dicking around and now all of a sudden the pressures off him and on Pyrr in a huge way? something strikes me as odd, I'll go back and re-read
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 17:25 GMT
#337
Just as a note, youngminii has been way active (well now at least =p) in the other game, not a peep in this one
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 09 2010 21:40 GMT
#355
##vote Ace

I gotta leave for friend's house, taking her out to dinner cause I GOT ACCEPTED INTO MED SCHOOL!!! But I'll explain my vote after I get back, Pyrr is still going to be lynch regardless I think, can someone else put a vote on him? I gotta switch off cause of my penalty.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 10 2010 14:22 GMT
#434
jesus, i'm gone for a night and shit goes down -_-. Why didn't people get off Pyrr when he claimed DT? I guess it was too late at that point? Ace, you got some explaining to do...what is this "hidden ability" stuff about?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 10 2010 15:59 GMT
#437
mm, are you sure it's bs? I want him to talk about it first/how he came tot he conclusion that he has a hidden ability before I decide
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 11 2010 00:13 GMT
#452
mm, i don't think so, seems like he died outright to mafia. Occam's razor ftw. Unless someone claims vigi/shot him.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 11 2010 02:17 GMT
#469
let's keep doing the penalty listings, while people can draw conjecture from the penalties about what color we are green/blue, they can't pinpoint our roles and we might as well to get all info out there. My penalty, If I vote majority (as in if I vote for the person being lynched), I can't vote (gotta abstain) the next day.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 11 2010 02:17 GMT
#470
also, it's weird that BM's thing is that if he dies, a certain type of power role loses it's power and yet mafia didn't hit him, that's like killing two birds with one stone.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 12 2010 01:11 GMT
#515
I am Obvious. I'm starting to think that there is no townie role, everyone is just blue. Think about the penalties so far, Ace could only do an action if he tells it ahead of time, meaning everyone will know/suspect he's blue. And Pyrr's is that he had to wait till Night 2. Those are some crazy penalties. Unless we're all blue.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 12 2010 06:26 GMT
#539
so basically claiming meant nothing...so we're back to no info again. Are we only suppose to play this game via reading scumtells and then using powers to catch them in the act or what? In either case, BM's whole charade with saying he couldn't talk and then letting Pyrr and Ace fight it out seemed VERYY scummy. And now he says he killed Ace which is weird cause that means mafia either didn't hit, or it got blocked, possibly by Ace though that seems off, I'd rather believe Occam's razor that the mafia just hit Ace and BM is lying out his ass.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 13 2010 00:36 GMT
#576
##vote LSB
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 13 2010 00:37 GMT
#577
##unvote
##vote BM


shit fuck let my vote go innnn
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 14 2010 14:32 GMT
#633
Why aren't we lynching BM again? He said he was vigi, claimed he hit someone, then it didn't happen. WTF?

##vote BM
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 02:05 GMT
#782
oh man, night's over. Finally
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 02:45 GMT
#785
##kill: Bill Murray
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 02:46 GMT
#786
here goes guys, I was a daytime vigi but could only kill someone I voted on. Messed up day 2 by not voting, my bad, was driving someone to airport and forgot. This is my do or die move I guess.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 02:51 GMT
#791
my bad for this late call =\
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 02:52 GMT
#793
probably(100%) put the town in a shitty hole, was going to shoot him last day but didn't vote and fucked up.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 02:56 GMT
#795
also why I lied about my penalty, if i said i could only action someone if I voted for them that'd probably give away my role lol
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 03:05 GMT
#796
5. citi.zen Suicidal
7. Divinek Unwary If a mafia is lynched it negatively impacts on him for the following night
9. bumatlarge Equivocating Treestump Basically becomes a mafia treestump if used
10. Scamp Lazy Limited amount of votes
11. DarthThienAn Goth

The last remaining ones with adjectives/penalties. About to go analyse everything.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 03:08 GMT
#797
I left myself off cause i'm confirmed obviously. So there's 3 town in there and 2 mafia so we have decent chances even just randomly, add in analysis and we stand a good chance to win I think. Today is lylo right?
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 18 2010 03:43 GMT
#798
I'mma FoS citi.zen for now and I'll post my report tomorrow, gotta wake up early to check out housing in philly
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 19 2010 01:51 GMT
#855
I totally figured out how we were suppose to play the game after I killed BM and saw that bum was still around. I figured, man we could have gotten two confirmed if it was like 5/2 mafia. And with Ace's telegraphing his moves in the beginning, we could have gotten a big circle together. Oh well. I didn't even think about confirming cause I wanted to kill BM so bad. I was like 90% sure he was mafia along with citi.zen and divinek. Came back and saw what happened and OTL. GG.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
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