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On July 22 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote:
Well see Protactinium, with a central townie to rely on, the game becomes much easier as he can direct the scum hunt without the town having to worry about the central townie being scum. Also, every confirmed townie makes a huge bit of difference late game.
It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on.
You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one.
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On July 22 2010 13:36 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:34 Protactinium wrote:On July 22 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote:
Well see Protactinium, with a central townie to rely on, the game becomes much easier as he can direct the scum hunt without the town having to worry about the central townie being scum. Also, every confirmed townie makes a huge bit of difference late game.
It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on. You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one. I never said I was. I was saying that in response to your question 'What's with the earning your position as townie anyway'. Stop twisting my words.
I don't need you to tell me the rules of the game. You and I both know this. When I say "you" I mean it in a general term. You're so hell-bent on trying to appear as town that it works against you.
I'm stopping here. There's no point discussing this further as it adds nothing to the thread.
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On July 23 2010 10:54 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:51 chaoser wrote:
So right now the consensus to move to tricode/zeks/amber/misder? Sigh...wtf did we do on day 2 then... Yup, that's the problem. We fuddled up day2. Theres a chance that one of the 3 remaining lynch suspects from day two are ACTUALLY mafia, but as of now it's too hard to tell which one. I for one feel it would be much better to focus on the quiet ones in this game, in order to at least get them to talk. Unless anyone disagrees with me, I think that should be our plan.
I'd like to wait till the Night is done (does it end at 13:00 KST again or was that a one time thing?) before deciding on targets. Bandwagons start this way, you know. Hopefully we'll get a good check result back, but if not let's see...
Tricode just seems bored. His self-kill comment just makes it seem like he's bored, but he could just be fooling around.
zeks is pretty inactive; need to see him post more and about his own thoughts instead of going along with the flow.
Not sure on Amber, have to continue reading.
Misder is going to be out for a while, so we won't be able to hear anything from (I'm assuming it's a him?) him. Beating a dead horse is kind of mean, as well, but this is Mafia. Through skimming his posts I don't find anything overtly Mafia about him. He does seem slightly tied to BloodyC0bbler though.
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Officially, if we go by the clock we're already almost four hours late.
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On July 23 2010 14:27 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 14:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Before this day turns into a giant flame fest like the last few pages.
I took a hit last night. Holy crud. This is the info I was talking about. Wait a second... then how did two people die. and a third got hit? Was there a vigilante?
Has to be a vigilante shot. There is no sign of a Mad Hatter death...
Which raises two pertinent questions:
1) Which one of the hits was a Vigilante shot?
2) Was the shot a lone shot in an attempt to be a hero, or was it directed?
Compiling Roffles' and Jayme's posts. I don't really recall much of them during this game between everything else going on, but they both seemed semi-inactive. I guess this was a blue-sniping night...
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Roffles' Posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 17 2010 07:07 Roffles wrote:
30.
/in On July 18 2010 07:31 Roffles wrote:You wait for them to confess that they're mafia. Or you can use PM hacks. I'm sure if you ask Bob he'll lend em to ya. On July 18 2010 07:33 Roffles wrote:
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
I'd much rather lynch a random person than lynch an inactive. Don't think the Mafia is retarded enough to not post, especially since almost every single TL game usually starts with the lynching of an inactive. It's just not worth the risk. On July 18 2010 08:30 Roffles wrote:
Could probably just get someone to generate a number online and take a pic and we'll have to take his word for it I guess.
Don't really have a preference as to who we lynch Day 1 anyways. Not this late and without a concrete plan. Could lynch an inactive, but who knows? They might just get modkilled anyways, so why waste a lynch on someone who's gonna get axed later on down the road anyways? On July 18 2010 11:13 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 10:44 Pandain wrote:On July 18 2010 10:30 Tricode wrote:
##vote abstain
Just doing this if I don't make it tomorrow to vote. My dad is spending his last full day at home before he has to leave for a few months for work.
Other then that, I do suggest we lynch an inactive.
1.if we keep abstaining cause we are always uncertain of what to do, we will never push to killing and finding a mafia member if we went at that rate.
2. That person who is being inactive is probably useless to us anyways just because they are not doing anything to participate.
3. One of the inactive are likely to be mafia just because there is usually one or two guys that are inactive or just post a little bit just so they can stay alive.
Either case, we won't accomplish anything by abstaining, it might even hurt us cause if we keep the option in our head we might use it to much in fear of constantly killing townies/blues and such. So I suggest try keeping abstains as placeholders or if you are truly uncertain in what to do.
Otherwise I encourage and highly suggest that we always use our lynches.
Yeah I think we should lynch, just because isn't the mafia going to kill one of us by the next day? Then again, I'd feel horrible if I lynched a good person. I might abstain, but I'll have to see both sides first. I'll decide later. Oh ho ho. Tis all about risks and taking chances and making educated guesses. If we only lynched when we absolutely knew we'd hit a bad guy, then hell not many lynches would happen the first couple of days ever. On July 18 2010 11:37 Roffles wrote:
##Abstain On July 20 2010 01:34 Roffles wrote:
Nah OpZ, not just one shitty post by BrownBear. Nearly all his posts are shitty. Don't really wanna dig up the post, but I do recall him voting first, then saying "I'm gonna go read".
Like what the hell is that? I'm gonna blindly vote, then read, then afterwards he just makes it even better by saying, "Oh, I could change my vote. But nahhhhh" On July 20 2010 10:50 Roffles wrote:You know, I gotta say that this filter function does do wonders in Mafia. Too bad I'm like one of the only people who gets it in here. =( On July 20 2010 11:33 Roffles wrote:Sup. How's it going? I can dig up any post history in this thread by any user in one single click. If you ever need me to do so, I can easily replicate that for you guys. I believe you already know my stance for tonight's lynch. BrownBear's one of the shittier posters in this thread thus far. I believe his posts speak for himself thus far: Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 09:13 BrownBear wrote:
In, this will probably be the last game I play for a while (curse you job). But still, so in for this one.
Also, Floridan vote rigger lol Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 11:05 BrownBear wrote:
I like the village bonfire idea. Who brought the s'mores? Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 11:29 BrownBear wrote:On July 17 2010 11:27 Misder wrote:
So... are we lynching now? KILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURN I mean, what? Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:29 BrownBear wrote:
Ahhhh shti!
I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:31 BrownBear wrote:
Whew, looks like I got back in time. Sorry about that. Time to go read the thread. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 08:36 BrownBear wrote:On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote:Brown BearOn July 19 2010 06:29 BrownBear wrote:
Ahhhh shti!
I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? On July 19 2010 06:30 BrownBear wrote:
###Vote: Hyperbola On July 19 2010 06:31 BrownBear wrote:
Whew, looks like I got back in time. Sorry about that. Time to go read the thread. Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? My bad, didn't realize you could abstain. Should have done that, but at this point it's not like it really matters :/ So anyways, as you can clearly see from each of his posts, he's contributed a whopping 0 insightful comments, and also jumped on the Hyperbola bandwagon for absolutely no reason. No reasoning behind his voting at all. Didn't even read a lick. One of those "flying under the radar" hoping not to get killed, but still able to get night shots off if they're alive and scum. Also, notice the timestamps on his posts. Gone, even though we've been accusing him for the last few pages or so. Doesn't even care, isn't gonna help at all either. Hurts us more than he's helping us. I'm off to sleep, but I'll be back with more after PL is done. PS: Filter button allows me to see every post made by that user in a given thread. One click on Filter next to say Pandain's name allows me to see every single one of his 42 posts in this thread for easy reference. On July 20 2010 11:56 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 11:48 d3_crescentia wrote:
Wait roffles are you serious?? How does one go about attaining the power of filtering? I'm serious. Flamewheel can attest as well. As to obtaining the Filter button, you can't for now. On July 21 2010 10:16 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 09:42 Subversion wrote:On July 21 2010 09:31 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 21 2010 09:29 Subversion wrote:
Go back and look. There's a tally by someone saying 7-4, then after that my vote comes.
Someone stated afterwards that their was an error in counting somewhere, and there were 2 unvotes after that I didn't see.
My vote only looks suspicious due to really poor timing =/ You don't vote for someone just because "they're fucked anyways". That's how bandwagons form. If we have a mafia starting a bandwagon, we _should_not_ just jump on it even if it's winning. I've already defended this a million times now  I told you, there was noone else that looked better, and I didn't want to abstain. Sure, maybe I should've just abstained, but everyone was saying abstaining is stupid and I'm new and I didn't want to fuck up. Lol, that's gone great so far  Also, why the fuck all the attention on my vote? Someone made a great post about how Hyperbola's fate was sealed in a block of 4 or 5 votes within an hour. Why is noone looking at those people? My vote came hours afterwards, when he was already circling the drain. It seems pretty clear to me that I'm just a n00b townie jumping on a bandwagon. Why has everyone forgotten about the big group of people that STARTED the bandwagon in the 1st place? You came in with the deciding vote in the end. Hyperbola's fate wasn't sealed and he easily could have been the one still alive today and not youngminii. The person who started Hyperbola's vote train was the guy Hyperbola accused at the very beginning without reading anything. The Mafia has no reason to start a bandwagon on Day 1. No need to risk, especially when they know who's what and they have the power to pretty much bandwagon any vote at the last minute to skew it in their favor. Which brings us back to you, the deciding vote in the end. I'd say you sealed Hyperbola's fate by jumping on board late, which can very possibly be due to Mafia bandwagoning at the last moment. Also, don't bring up this noob card. No one cares if you're a noob. On July 21 2010 23:19 Roffles wrote:
Yawn, just gonna pitch in my two liner here and say that Subversion's slip up doesn't really strike me as a real mafia slip up, just a minor error by a newbie.
As for BrownBear, I dunno really. His defense arguments seem townie enough, but I'm still wary of his vote, read, then no change on the vote tactic from Day 1.
Aside from DTA's antics, I think we're on the wrong path here, but that's just a hunch. On July 22 2010 02:01 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Unvote BrownBear
##Vote: Subversion
Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute. Nah, I legitimately think Subversion is just a newbie who made a dumb mistake. He made a stupid blunder the last game he played, and ended up getting modkilled. However, him pulling out the newbie card himself is an alarming point to possibly take suspicion off him. Once again, I think we're going in the wrong direction. On July 22 2010 04:53 Roffles wrote:
??
I never voted on Day 2. I just think BrownBear played Day 1 like a moron, and that Subversion's tactics are odd/newblike, but not necessarily Mafia like. On July 22 2010 05:16 Roffles wrote:
I believe we have about 4 hours left?
Anyways, I'm against the BrownBear/Subversion bandwagons. I think BB played terribly Day 1, but that doesn't mean we should lynch him for his piss poor play. It's highly unlikely Mafia slips up the way he did. As for Subversion, he's in the same boat.
As for lynch targets, I'll skip DTA, and vote for Chaoser simply because he seems to be pushing the BB/Subversion vote wagons pretty hard. Abstained on the first day, even though Abstaining is a rather dumb thing to do on the first day.
If you search through his past, you'll see Chaoser jumping all over Subversion just for a slight slip up, as if he's searching for the tiniest hole to blame someone for. As for DTA, I have my suspicions, but I'm gonna vote for my gut instinct in Chaoser.
##Vote: Chaoser On July 22 2010 05:30 Roffles wrote:
Feel free to think that way.
I ain't jumping on bandwagons, I'm just simply browsing back and making observations on how the game has played out. To put it simply, I think the mistakes Subversion and BrownBear made aren't Mafia type slip ups. In fact, I highly doubt the Mafia would act that reckless or use words the way Subversion did. To me, those are just newbie mistakes made by both players, as the Mafia has no need to pull such stupid stunts. Even if someone was in danger of getting modkilled and they were Mafia, they wouldn't ever dream of pulling such a stupid stunt as "Vote first, then read, and publicly claim so". No mafia would ever risk such a thing, as it just puts way too much suspicion on them.
Same goes for Subversion's slip up. So what'd I do? I went back, and browsed through everyone's post histories in this thread, and went to see who was pushing the vote boats. A few stuck out to me, but sure as hell Chaoser has done exactly what Mafia might do in such situations. Picked on word play, pounded the smallest things in order to generate a vote bandwagon. If you sift through his posts, half of them are simply vote recounts, which inflate his activity. In fact, he's been flying under the radar, and 1) abstained on Day 1, and has been pushing for Subversion's death ever since Day 2 started. On July 22 2010 05:33 Roffles wrote:
Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left.
There, you outlined it yourself. You acknowledge that his little mafia mistake is just weird, yet you still cast your vote for him. It isn't something that Mafia is stupid enough to slip up on, yet you're fueling the bandwagon even though you acknowledge that it's weird and unusual, not necessarily harmful in all. On July 22 2010 08:31 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 08:16 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Can anyone summarize why they think chaoser is mafia?
So far I haven't seen a single convincing analysis; it just looks like people are voting for him because other people are voting for him. I'm too lazy to dig up the context of these posts, but here's what I've dug up thanks to Filter. Chaoser Day 1: Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 00:50 chaoser wrote:
##vote abstain
for now, didn't want to get modkilled followed by Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 03:46 chaoser wrote:
It's already been established that not lynching someone on the first day is a horrible decision, why are you still pushing for it? followed by the start of BrownBear's bandwagon. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 09:05 chaoser wrote:On July 19 2010 08:36 BrownBear wrote:On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote:Brown BearOn July 19 2010 06:29 BrownBear wrote:
Ahhhh shti!
I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? On July 19 2010 06:30 BrownBear wrote:
###Vote: Hyperbola On July 19 2010 06:31 BrownBear wrote:
Whew, looks like I got back in time. Sorry about that. Time to go read the thread. Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? My bad, didn't realize you could abstain. Should have done that, but at this point it's not like it really matters :/ So basically you just said: "lawl, i messed up/made a mistake but oh well, not going to change." Anyone else find that suspicious? Recall that post of his stating that he's gonna abstain for now only to avoid a modkill? Well, he never really changed his vote afterwards. Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 23:02 chaoser wrote:
And to be truthful, I don;t really believe that BrownBear is townie just from the way he's posting. For the first day he pretty much posts nothing and bandwagons with no real reason. When people point him out of it (that he voted before reading) he goes oh well, it doesn't matter now when it CLEARLY did, the vote ended 6-5. Then, after a whole DAY of people pointing fingers at him he decides to come in and post about vets claiming and basically giving horrible advice. I'm inclined to say he's mafia who fucked up the first day and now he's trying to play dumb townie. Also, his whole ramble about claiming is pushing us off the topic of Subversion's suspicious vote as well as his little statement about how mafia isn't really making mistakes.
I'm not 100% clear on my vote yet but I'm watching BrownBear for now. And I also think we should vote double lynch. It's going to be 52 hours till the next lynch give or take, you guys don't think we'll have more than enough information then? So then he goes onto kill BB, and also think we should waste our double lynch pretty early, but when he wakes up like 7 hours later, he decides "Oh shit, don't feel like voting for BB, gonna use it on Subversion instead" Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 06:02 chaoser wrote:
Also, I'm going to put in my vote for Subversion. So far I don't know how I feel about BrownBear. At first I wanted to vote him. He's been playing badly and didn't do anything day one. But then at the same time people jumped all over voting for him in the beginning until just recently when people switched to Subversion, or at least it feels like that.
Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left.
##vote Subversion So if you do a little reading, you'll see that the reason why he switched over to Subversion was simply because other people were doing it. "At first, I wanted to vote BB cause everyone else was killing him. Now they're killing Subversion, so I might as well make myself comfortable and hop on as well" Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 06:12 chaoser wrote:On July 22 2010 06:03 Pandain wrote:
Right now I believe the two viable decisions are either Chaoser or Darth. They are the two most likely canidates for actually being mafia. BB and Subversion are just new and people are jumping on them for really miniscule posts. The only one thing that could lead to one of them being mafia is Subversions deciding vote in favor of Hyperbola, however that is still unlikely because it is just as likely that
1)The Mafia didn't know of BM's miscount
2)He just voted at an unlucky time.
So all those who are picking either BB or Subversion (especially BB) I urge you to change your vote and vote for either Darth of Chaoser.
I would suggest Chaoser, just because I find him more likely to be mafia than DTA. To me, it still seems that Chaoser is just trying to get people lynched and DTA could be plannign something. Of course we should keep an eye on DTA, but let's not just lynch him and ruin anything he might be doing.
I would urge you to vote Chaoser, but at the very least I humbly request all those not voting either DTA/Chaoser to unvote and pick one of them.
that's very scummy of you to say isn't it? Your suggestion gives mafia license to stack votes instead of having to worry about spreading it over different potential targets (4) right now. If later people ask, they can be like well, Pandain suggested it. And how am I more likely as mafia than DTA? Look at Pyrr's huge statement against him against the two weak points you bring against me (that I abstained after saying don't go with the no-lynch plan (which others did too) and then voted Subversion today.) If I get lynch and I flip non-red, people should carefully examine all the people who are hardcore gunning for me (Pandain, youngminii) Just an extra post that sheds a little light from Pandain's perspective. Anyways, while we're here, Chaoser to me seems like one of the big bandwagon voters in this thread, which is pretty much what Mafia likes to do. As well as a couple others, Chaoser has flopped from BB's wagon to Subversion's wagon with the excuse of "Everyone seems to be doing it, so I might as well too". First day, he gave the Abstain at first excuse in order to avoid a modkill, but never really changed his vote in the end. There are other signs as well, but the fact that he keeps pushing a couple dumb bandwagons in BB and Subversion reeks of bleh to me. Others fit this bill as well, but might as well push for Chaoser to get lynched since he's closer than other possible scum I have in mind. On July 22 2010 10:37 Roffles wrote:
When does day end again? 12:00 KST?
Cause something someone said makes me wanna change my vote, I just wanna see how much time I have left to ponder about my decision. On July 22 2010 14:27 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote:
You know, I have a question and I think this should be public information. My sources tell me that tree.hugger has been spreading misinformation to at least 3 different people via PM and instructing them to vote for certain people. However, I do not believe he's scum.
Tree.hugger, stop PMing others and post it here for everyone to see. Don't just say 'vote for this person' and 'vote for that person', tell them who you're suspicious of and ask them who they're suspicious of. Do not go around giving orders. It also seems as if you're targeting newer players (although I'm not sure about this). Yawn, you can count me in on that as well. I however don't pay much attention to PMs and I kinda just said screw it to what he wanted me to do. On July 22 2010 16:09 Roffles wrote:Yawn, all you had to do was ask. + Show Spoiler [Jayme's Posts] +On July 08 2010 07:37 Jayme wrote:
/in
On July 17 2010 07:16 Jayme wrote:
YEAA lets get this started!
On July 17 2010 10:30 Jayme wrote:
Yea is there gonna be a day post or what? On July 17 2010 11:23 Jayme wrote:
No day post? Alright I ...
vote:Amber[light]
because I want to and the random number I picked from excel from 1 to 30 landed on him. So the cookie crumbles. On July 18 2010 05:51 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 05:29 Divinek wrote:
I think voting inactives at the start to be among the better options. While it seems reasonable that people who get mafia go omg cool role, and want to post, some of them may want to lurk cause they think that's a good way to avoid attention or something.
So the only way to get substance out of these people is to call them out and pressure vote them. I'd think by now voting on an inactive is just about as likely to yield results as RNG...which is to say you have about a 1/5 chance of nailing a Mafia, and if we don't due to a crazy vote swing at least we have something to go on for the next day. I would believe that most people that are new would read other mafia games on this forum and realize the whole "Lynch INACTIVE day 1" policy TL has. I don't think any red would not post at all but i'm willing to go with either. On July 18 2010 07:36 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 06:25 SiNiquity wrote:On July 18 2010 06:08 tree.hugger wrote:On July 18 2010 05:39 XeliN wrote:
I'm not entirely sure on the inactive thing, if there is someone who doesn't post whatsoever they are dead anyway, and it encourages people to spam simply to not be case as inactive. Depends how things work out, if there is someone who at the end of day 1 has only posted one thing that is about as useful as typing "lol mafia!" then I'd agree but it depends on circumstance.
This only really applies for the first day, after that lynching for inactivity if there is not a more obvious choice seems like a universally very good idea, but I'm surprised more people arn't considering the idea of using a RNG to decide our first kill.
And OpZ just lol @ immediately claiming 3 people seemingly randomly as mafia. So much spam in the first couple pages. Get a hold of yourselves people, you're not witty. Also, our inactive lynches always end up being townies, but every time when we look back at the game, there's always a mafia member or two who was inactive at the beginning, or posted and spammed just enough to clear the inactivity bar. I propose we make a list of FIVE players who are inactive, and then RNG them to determine a lynch candidate. That way we either force mafia into the open, or catch that one newbie mafia who doesn't know how to post properly. At the very least that would make the town's move a little harder to gauge. If you narrow the list down to 3 I'm down with it. If you put it at 5 people and only get 1 mafia correctly on the list, then you've only done just as good as a blind RNG (20%). You narrow it down to three and conversely you have a chance to have a list full of greens and nothing else, which is likely because you're only using 10% of the player list assuming a red is playing inactively. Either go full RNG or go full inactive because a mix of the two is liable to get us a list with only greens on it which is even more pointless than just picking a random number. On July 18 2010 08:12 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
RNG lynch is dumb because you have more of a chance to land on a townie, and then he could be a helpful townie.
if we lynch an inactive we're killing someone who probably would not have helped us anyway
however, i don't want to lynch someone that would just get modkilled since that's obviously a waste.
Bill, how many votes can someone miss before they get zapped? As far as I know they can't miss any votes at all. We have more of a chance to land on a townie with any day 1 method we choose simply due to the fact that there are 24 townies and 6 mafia...there is no way of avoiding this. As a matter of fact I would say we have a better chance of hitting a good red player through RNG because I mean...who's to say that this "good townie" isn't just a red being a good townie. I understand lynching an inactive is killing someone who wouldn't have helped anyway but you're still doing just that...just about guaranteeing a green lynch which is completely pointless. As I said before I'm willing to go with either, there isn't much we could do. The issue I see with RNG is verifying if it's actually RNG. On July 18 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote:
No-Lynch?
Oh hell no absolutely not.
I don't understand how a no-lynch is beneficial to the town if you're going to kill an inactive anyway. You learn absolutely nothing from it, you don't even have a CHANCE at hitting a red, and you're basically wasting a whole day on nothing.
No lynch is a terrible idea. On July 19 2010 07:53 Jayme wrote:
The whole mini Hyperbola bandwagon was rather funny. He comes in and says a few lines and then 3 people just jump on him like a pack of wild dogs.
Initially this bandwagon looked rather harmless but now he's got 7 votes on him and unless a miracle happens it looks like he's being lynched.
That being said anybody who advocates no lynch as much as Youngminii has is crazy sketchy while at the same time ignoring why people have said it's a terrible thing to do. In the end it's rarely the blues that actually win you the game and it's a few good analytical townies that save the day. If a sudden bandwagon comes up and all of a sudden a detective gets killed you have yourself at the very least a strong suspect list.
SO yea
##Unvote
##Vote: Youngminii
Even if you're townie your discussion sidetracked us like crazy. On July 19 2010 23:29 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 22:44 chaoser wrote:Vote Count:
6] Hyperbola (Divinek, Pandain, SiNiquity, bumatlarge, BB, Subversion)
4] YoungMinii (XeliN, Amber[LighT, Roffles, Infizzleundibulumizzle)
2] DarthThienAn (d3_crescentia, Pyrrhuloxia)
2] ketomai (citi.zen, lakrismamma)
2] Amber[LighT] (jayme, DarthThienAn),
2[ BloodyC0bbler (~OpZ, Foolishness)
2] LaXerCannon (Misder, citi.zen)
1] citi.zen (rastaban)
1] SiNiquity (Hyperbola)
1] Pandain (BC)
1] Infundibulum (youngminii)
5] abstain (LaXerCannon, tricode, SouthRawrea, Chaoser, protactinium, zeks) Voting ended at 10:10Subversion votes for Hyperbola at 9:16 - "No other clear choice" zeks unvotes Hyperbola, abstains at 8:58 - "Unvote like I promised" Misder unvotes Hyperbola, votes for LaXerCannon at 8:38 - "His posts don't have substance" Fooliahness votes for BC at 8:25 - "Bad vibes" Jayme unvotes Hyperbola, votes Youngminii at 7:53 - "Youngminii has is crazy sketch" BrownBear votes for Hyperbola at 6:30 - "oops mistake, didn't know you could absain, oh well, nothing I can do now." Those were the votes of people in the last 4 hours, starting with BrownBear's vote for Hyperbola Just putting the info out there Okay that told us absolutely nothing besides the fact that BrownBear apparently doesn't like to rectify mistakes and that Foolishness gets vibes. So at least Hyperbola turned up green and not blue, that would have made that freak miniwagon almost humorous On July 20 2010 12:58 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 10:27 Misder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 07:15 LaXerCannon wrote:Resources (fixed) + Show Spoiler +Jayme -> Amber[light]
Pandain -> abstain
DTA -> Abstain -> d3_crescentia
d3_crescentia -> DTA
DTA -> Unabstain
citi.zen -> DTA
rastaban -> citi.zen
youngminii -> Pyrrhuloxia
Pandain -> Incognito
SouthRawrea -> Abstain
~OpZ~ -> Chaoser
BloodyC0bbler -> Abstain
bumatlarge -> Divinek
Pandain -> BloodyC0bbler
Hyperbola -> SiNiquity
LaXercannon -> Abstain
Youngminii -> Abstain
Divinek -> Abstain
Tricode -> Abstain
Misder -> Hyperbola
Divinek -> Hyperbola
Pandain -> Hyperbola
Pyrrhuloxia -> Abstain
zeks -> Hyperbola
SiNiquity -> Hyperbola
Roffles -> Abstain
tree.hugger -> LaXercannon
Foolishness -> Abstain
lakrismamma -> LaXercannon
lakrismamma -> Subversion
BloodyC0bbler -> Pandain
~OpZ~ -> BloodyC0bbler
Pyrrhuloxia -> DTA
XeliN -> Brownbear
iNfuNdiBuLuM -> youngminii
youngminii -> iNfuNdiBuLuM
citi.zen -> ketomai
XeliN -> youngminii
chaoser -> abstain
Amber[LighT] -> abstain
treehugger -> DTA
Amber[LighT] -> youngminii
Roffles -> youngminii
lakrismamma -> ketomai
DTA -> Amber[LighT]
bumatlarge -> Hyperbola
BrownBear -> Hyperbola
Jayme -> Youngminii
Foolishness -> BloodyC0bbler
Misder -> LaXerCannon
zeks -> abstain
Subversion -> Hyperbola
BloodyC0bbler -> Abstain -> Pandain
bumatlarge -> Divinek -> Hyperbola*
BrownBear -> Hyperbola*
Chaoser -> Abstain
citi.zen -> ketomai
d3_crescentia -> DTA
Divinek -> Abstain -> Hyperbola*
DTA -> Abstain -> Amber[LighT]
Foolishness -> Abstain -> BloodyC0bbler
Hyperbola -> SiNiquity
iNfuNdiBuLuM -> youngminii
Jayme -> Amber[Light] -> youngminii
lakrismamma -> LaXerCannon -> Subversion -> ketomai
LaXercannon -> Abstain
Misder -> Hyperbola* -> LaXercannon
~OpZ~ -> Chaoser -> BloodyC0bbler
Pandain -> Abstain -> Incognito (?) -> BloodyC0bbler -> Hyperbola*
Protactinium -> Abstain
Pyrrhuloxia -> Abstain -> DTA
rastaban -> citi.zen
Roffles -> Abstain
SiNiquity -> Hyperbola*
SouthRawrea -> Abstain
Subversion -> Hyperbola
Tricode -> Abstain
tree.hugger -> LaXerCannon
XeliN -> Brownbear -> youngminii
youngminii -> Pyrrhuloxia -> abstain -> iNfuNdiBuLuM
zeks -> Hyperbola* -> abstain
What interests me is this block of voting: Misder -> Hyperbola Divinek -> Hyperbola Pandain -> Hyperbola Pyrrhuloxia -> Abstain zeks -> Hyperbola SiNiquity -> Hyperbola and these people: Misder -> Hyperbola* -> LaXercannon zeks -> Hyperbola* -> abstain My head hurts so I'll just give a couple one liners for now (I've been digging through this damned thread for like an eternity) The Hyperbola bandwagonMisder @ 10:43 Divinek @ 10:51 Pandain @ 10:56 zeks @ 11:22 SiNiquity @ 11:37 Within an hour, Hyperbola gets bandwagonned and is in first place: Show nested quote +5] Hyperbola (Misder, Divinek, Pandain, Zeks, SiNiquity)
2] DarthThienAn (d3_crescentia, citi.zen)
1] Amber[LighT] (jayme),
1] d3_crescentia (darthThienAn),
1] citi.zen (rastaban)
1] chaoser (~opz~)
1] Divinek (bumatlarge)
1] SiNiquity (Hyperbola)
6] abstain (BloodyC0bbler, LaXerCannon, youngminii, tricode, Pyrrhuloxia, Roffles) @ 11:37 (after roffles' vote) Definitely suspicious considering how fast and compact the votes were together Misder -> Hyperbola* -> LaXercannon zeks -> Hyperbola* -> abstain Misder -> starts bandwagon, jumps off when Hyperbola's screwed zeks -> fourth voter for bandwagon, jumps off when Hyperbola's screwed attempts at lowering suspicion? I already said why I unvoted for Hyperbola. + Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 08:38 Misder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote:Guys, really? Okay so I'm pretty much lynched because you people can't take a joke. So I'm leaving this as my legacy: People I think are mafia or atleast seem fishy:Brown BearShow nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:29 BrownBear wrote:
Ahhhh shti!
I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:31 BrownBear wrote:
Whew, looks like I got back in time. Sorry about that. Time to go read the thread. Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? youngminiiShow nested quote +On July 18 2010 21:01 youngminii wrote:
Actually, I'm not going to overlook it. Why would you place a vote on me 'just in case'? Especially after you heard BC say I was a strong player (which citi.zen evidently disagrees with)? You have these two guys criticising my post when it's not even serious, you jump on this bandwagon and then put a placeholder vote on me just in case?
Does this not strike you as scummy at all? Overly scummy but scummy nonetheless? In fact, I think this is the scummiest post I have seen all game (not that long). However, I don't think you're really that bad at this game and even a mediocre scum wouldn't do that kind of mistake. Will need confirmation on other more experienced TL mafia players on your meta. You are entirely too defensive when a person puts a vote on you as a placeholder. Either you are scum or a very nervous blue. You also endorse no lynching on the first day to appear to be "pro-life" and "for the town". I really don't see your reasoning behind this because a random shot in the dark of inactives or suspicious players can in fact nab a red. And if it doesn't you only lose a green because a blue would at least roleclaim or try to join up with trust circles to avoid getting lynched in this manner. (Divided blues that don't make connections are really hindering the town). SiNiquityI had absolutely no evidence against you before but now you are starting to stink of scum at first you took my accusal of you as a joke and brushed it off, but when people started accusing me of being mafia you saw an opportunity and went into action to provide as much evidence as you could find against me by even looking into past games. Then you just completely shut your mouth and is now waiting for the situation to close to start talking again (afraid you'll say something to bring attention to you and me being the perfect scapegoat). Also your previous posts were really try-hard in my opinion. You contributed absolutely nothing by typing up lengthy posts that just summarized what everyone said. Besides that you clarified and discussed some rules of the game and such. You want to make it seem like you are contributing and keep a neutral and non aggressive stance like a reporter so no one would suspect you. This could just be your playstyle but it seems like a very cautious red one to me. LaXerCannonShow nested quote +On July 18 2010 09:30 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 18 2010 09:04 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
If we randomly pick someone, we have a better chance of getting a blue then a red. Why don't we try voting for who we think is red? It's not like the game will automatically get easier for us as it goes on, since there aren't any clues. Also, at this point everyone's votes are spread out so we are nearly guaranteed an innocent lynch. Getting everyone to agree to vote for the random could be awfully tough.
IF we wanted to do the random thing, we could tie it in advance to something numerical in one or both of the playoff games tonight. Like number of factories made by WeMade players, or that number divided by two, or taking the number of letters in each winning player's ID and looping back to 1 if it goes over 30. It wouldn't be random, but we could independently agree on it, and none of us could influence it in advance. We don't know the distribution of red/blue/green in the list so it is almost as good as random unless the reds get us to agree on a bad number (like maybe they get us to agree on something times 2, which would never land on the first person on the list). We can take this step further by listing inactives in reverse order and numbering them from 1-X, use a number we obtain from the second paragraph and count through the list, looping when needed. I'm getting carried away here... I think lynching an inactive player is the best course of action. I also think we should get a list of players who are new to this mafia game so we know who they are. A new player who's scum can easily hide under that mask; I think it's best we can monitor them from the get go. Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 09:33 LaXerCannon wrote:
##Abstain in case I can't find it within myself to wake up early tomorrow to post (no other time >_>) Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 11:38 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 18 2010 10:40 youngminii wrote:On July 18 2010 10:13 SiNiquity wrote:On July 18 2010 09:59 youngminii wrote:On July 18 2010 09:51 Bill Murray wrote:
EVERYONE abstaining? I guess it'd no lynch. Didn't expect that to happen! Okay so everyone should abstain imo. If you have any objections to this idea, please raise it asap because we need everyone to switch their vote to abstaining. Even one vote = lynch and that will be very suspicious of the person who left their vote by 'accident'. ##Unvote Pyrr
##Vote Abstain I'm not sure I like it. The inactives will get modkilled, no one gets lynched, the mafia kills 2 more people, and then we're back at square one, no? On July 18 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote:
No-Lynch?
Oh hell no absolutely not.
I don't understand how a no-lynch is beneficial to the town if you're going to kill an inactive anyway. You learn absolutely nothing from it, you don't even have a CHANCE at hitting a red, and you're basically wasting a whole day on nothing.
No lynch is a terrible idea. If we lynch someone on the first day without any good reason there's a solid chance (12/15) that we'll hit a townie. That's 80%. There's also a better chance of lynching a blue than there is of scum. A no lynch is a gift that we should utilize instead of RVS. Bad idea, there's no incentive for town to post -> silent town = dead town Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 16:13 LaXerCannon wrote:
playoffs are done for today! my next post will be in....around 16-18 hours. First LaxerCannon recommends lynching inactives but then goes ahead and abstains. Then he goes on again about how we should just line up inactives to lynch and doesn't change his vote. Then he vanishes. This is fishy for two reasons. First the obvious contradiction, and second, the effort to try and direct suspicion away from him. He keeps pushing the idea to lynch random inactive people while the town debates over a few suspects and really does nothing but push the town in the wrong direction: not analysing the game but killing off quiet people. Then he talks about playoffs and keeps endorcing random picking ideas. That is wayy too anti-town to be a blue. And if he's green he doesn't care about the game much. ------------------------------------------------------- this is all I have now and hope I at least contributed to the game before I die sorry about trying to have fun guys :/ j/k ~peace
Vote: LaXerCannonblah. I don't want to abstain... but I don't know who to lynch I vote LaXerCannon because his posts don't have any substance whatsoever. He tries to contribute, but doesn't give any astounding idea. His ideas are based on previous ideas that have been said, and doesn't say anything new. Then he distracts from the conversation. Either Hyperbola is a mafia member that is trying every attempt to get out, by making false accusations, or he is a townie who make a mistake but is trying to amend it by giving analysis. I tend to lean towards the latter. Plus, Hyperbola is now being active, which is good. If he is a mafia member, his activeness may work against him because he will have to dodge a lot to make it seem like he is a townie. If he is a townie, well, good. An active townie a very very good. Hopefully, I made the right decision... Also, as many people already stated, Hyperbola was not screwed all the way. It was 6-5 for Hyperbola, a very close vote. Anyways... ITS 9:27!!!!!! WHERE IS THE DAY POST!!!! The initial miniwagon was enough to REALLY up his chances at being lynched. AT least on TL massive swing votes to lynch someone else in the last few hours is very rare and I've only seen it happen a very few times. I thought that wagon was ridiculous from the start and then people jump on it with absolutely no real reasoning whatsoever and weren't challenged on it....either that or they IGNORED their challenges. So yea Brownbear what the hell dude? Real reasoning for voting for him besides "lol I didn't know I could abstain but I found out later and didn't change my vote" On July 20 2010 20:18 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:38 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BrownBear i'd like to see more input from the rest of the town but i guess my sentiments on vets claiming boils to this:
1. the town wants the mafia to inadvertently waste hits on vets
2. vets claiming practically guarantees that this will not happen You have to balance the fact that you have a central confirmed townie with which to operate from. Randomly hitting a Vet is so rare as it is that I just don't see a huge benefit in keeping them hidden when one has obviously been hit...or the medic got a really lucky protection on someone. I personally like the vet claiming idea because on their own they are a pretty weak blue role. On July 21 2010 08:20 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 06:02 chaoser wrote:
Also, I'm going to put in my vote for Subversion. So far I don't know how I feel about BrownBear. At first I wanted to vote him. He's been playing badly and didn't do anything day one. But then at the same time people jumped all over voting for him in the beginning until just recently when people switched to Subversion, or at least it feels like that.
Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left.
##vote Subversion I personally understand the brownbear vote because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Subversion's strange comments have been well...strange and I'm really itching to vote for him because his foot in mouth syndrome could get us in trouble later in the game when saying something stupid can have catastrophic consequences. That being said
##Vote:Subversion
Jayme's Posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 08 2010 07:37 Jayme wrote:
/in
On July 17 2010 07:16 Jayme wrote:
YEAA lets get this started!
On July 17 2010 10:30 Jayme wrote:
Yea is there gonna be a day post or what? On July 17 2010 11:23 Jayme wrote:
No day post? Alright I ...
vote:Amber[light]
because I want to and the random number I picked from excel from 1 to 30 landed on him. So the cookie crumbles. On July 18 2010 05:51 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 05:29 Divinek wrote:
I think voting inactives at the start to be among the better options. While it seems reasonable that people who get mafia go omg cool role, and want to post, some of them may want to lurk cause they think that's a good way to avoid attention or something.
So the only way to get substance out of these people is to call them out and pressure vote them. I'd think by now voting on an inactive is just about as likely to yield results as RNG...which is to say you have about a 1/5 chance of nailing a Mafia, and if we don't due to a crazy vote swing at least we have something to go on for the next day. I would believe that most people that are new would read other mafia games on this forum and realize the whole "Lynch INACTIVE day 1" policy TL has. I don't think any red would not post at all but i'm willing to go with either. On July 18 2010 07:36 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 06:25 SiNiquity wrote:On July 18 2010 06:08 tree.hugger wrote:On July 18 2010 05:39 XeliN wrote:
I'm not entirely sure on the inactive thing, if there is someone who doesn't post whatsoever they are dead anyway, and it encourages people to spam simply to not be case as inactive. Depends how things work out, if there is someone who at the end of day 1 has only posted one thing that is about as useful as typing "lol mafia!" then I'd agree but it depends on circumstance.
This only really applies for the first day, after that lynching for inactivity if there is not a more obvious choice seems like a universally very good idea, but I'm surprised more people arn't considering the idea of using a RNG to decide our first kill.
And OpZ just lol @ immediately claiming 3 people seemingly randomly as mafia. So much spam in the first couple pages. Get a hold of yourselves people, you're not witty. Also, our inactive lynches always end up being townies, but every time when we look back at the game, there's always a mafia member or two who was inactive at the beginning, or posted and spammed just enough to clear the inactivity bar. I propose we make a list of FIVE players who are inactive, and then RNG them to determine a lynch candidate. That way we either force mafia into the open, or catch that one newbie mafia who doesn't know how to post properly. At the very least that would make the town's move a little harder to gauge. If you narrow the list down to 3 I'm down with it. If you put it at 5 people and only get 1 mafia correctly on the list, then you've only done just as good as a blind RNG (20%). You narrow it down to three and conversely you have a chance to have a list full of greens and nothing else, which is likely because you're only using 10% of the player list assuming a red is playing inactively. Either go full RNG or go full inactive because a mix of the two is liable to get us a list with only greens on it which is even more pointless than just picking a random number. On July 18 2010 08:12 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 08:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
RNG lynch is dumb because you have more of a chance to land on a townie, and then he could be a helpful townie.
if we lynch an inactive we're killing someone who probably would not have helped us anyway
however, i don't want to lynch someone that would just get modkilled since that's obviously a waste.
Bill, how many votes can someone miss before they get zapped? As far as I know they can't miss any votes at all. We have more of a chance to land on a townie with any day 1 method we choose simply due to the fact that there are 24 townies and 6 mafia...there is no way of avoiding this. As a matter of fact I would say we have a better chance of hitting a good red player through RNG because I mean...who's to say that this "good townie" isn't just a red being a good townie. I understand lynching an inactive is killing someone who wouldn't have helped anyway but you're still doing just that...just about guaranteeing a green lynch which is completely pointless. As I said before I'm willing to go with either, there isn't much we could do. The issue I see with RNG is verifying if it's actually RNG. On July 18 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote:
No-Lynch?
Oh hell no absolutely not.
I don't understand how a no-lynch is beneficial to the town if you're going to kill an inactive anyway. You learn absolutely nothing from it, you don't even have a CHANCE at hitting a red, and you're basically wasting a whole day on nothing.
No lynch is a terrible idea. On July 19 2010 07:53 Jayme wrote:
The whole mini Hyperbola bandwagon was rather funny. He comes in and says a few lines and then 3 people just jump on him like a pack of wild dogs.
Initially this bandwagon looked rather harmless but now he's got 7 votes on him and unless a miracle happens it looks like he's being lynched.
That being said anybody who advocates no lynch as much as Youngminii has is crazy sketchy while at the same time ignoring why people have said it's a terrible thing to do. In the end it's rarely the blues that actually win you the game and it's a few good analytical townies that save the day. If a sudden bandwagon comes up and all of a sudden a detective gets killed you have yourself at the very least a strong suspect list.
SO yea
##Unvote
##Vote: Youngminii
Even if you're townie your discussion sidetracked us like crazy. On July 19 2010 23:29 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 22:44 chaoser wrote:Vote Count:
6] Hyperbola (Divinek, Pandain, SiNiquity, bumatlarge, BB, Subversion)
4] YoungMinii (XeliN, Amber[LighT, Roffles, Infizzleundibulumizzle)
2] DarthThienAn (d3_crescentia, Pyrrhuloxia)
2] ketomai (citi.zen, lakrismamma)
2] Amber[LighT] (jayme, DarthThienAn),
2[ BloodyC0bbler (~OpZ, Foolishness)
2] LaXerCannon (Misder, citi.zen)
1] citi.zen (rastaban)
1] SiNiquity (Hyperbola)
1] Pandain (BC)
1] Infundibulum (youngminii)
5] abstain (LaXerCannon, tricode, SouthRawrea, Chaoser, protactinium, zeks) Voting ended at 10:10Subversion votes for Hyperbola at 9:16 - "No other clear choice" zeks unvotes Hyperbola, abstains at 8:58 - "Unvote like I promised" Misder unvotes Hyperbola, votes for LaXerCannon at 8:38 - "His posts don't have substance" Fooliahness votes for BC at 8:25 - "Bad vibes" Jayme unvotes Hyperbola, votes Youngminii at 7:53 - "Youngminii has is crazy sketch" BrownBear votes for Hyperbola at 6:30 - "oops mistake, didn't know you could absain, oh well, nothing I can do now." Those were the votes of people in the last 4 hours, starting with BrownBear's vote for Hyperbola Just putting the info out there Okay that told us absolutely nothing besides the fact that BrownBear apparently doesn't like to rectify mistakes and that Foolishness gets vibes. So at least Hyperbola turned up green and not blue, that would have made that freak miniwagon almost humorous On July 20 2010 12:58 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 10:27 Misder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 07:15 LaXerCannon wrote:Resources (fixed) + Show Spoiler +Jayme -> Amber[light]
Pandain -> abstain
DTA -> Abstain -> d3_crescentia
d3_crescentia -> DTA
DTA -> Unabstain
citi.zen -> DTA
rastaban -> citi.zen
youngminii -> Pyrrhuloxia
Pandain -> Incognito
SouthRawrea -> Abstain
~OpZ~ -> Chaoser
BloodyC0bbler -> Abstain
bumatlarge -> Divinek
Pandain -> BloodyC0bbler
Hyperbola -> SiNiquity
LaXercannon -> Abstain
Youngminii -> Abstain
Divinek -> Abstain
Tricode -> Abstain
Misder -> Hyperbola
Divinek -> Hyperbola
Pandain -> Hyperbola
Pyrrhuloxia -> Abstain
zeks -> Hyperbola
SiNiquity -> Hyperbola
Roffles -> Abstain
tree.hugger -> LaXercannon
Foolishness -> Abstain
lakrismamma -> LaXercannon
lakrismamma -> Subversion
BloodyC0bbler -> Pandain
~OpZ~ -> BloodyC0bbler
Pyrrhuloxia -> DTA
XeliN -> Brownbear
iNfuNdiBuLuM -> youngminii
youngminii -> iNfuNdiBuLuM
citi.zen -> ketomai
XeliN -> youngminii
chaoser -> abstain
Amber[LighT] -> abstain
treehugger -> DTA
Amber[LighT] -> youngminii
Roffles -> youngminii
lakrismamma -> ketomai
DTA -> Amber[LighT]
bumatlarge -> Hyperbola
BrownBear -> Hyperbola
Jayme -> Youngminii
Foolishness -> BloodyC0bbler
Misder -> LaXerCannon
zeks -> abstain
Subversion -> Hyperbola
BloodyC0bbler -> Abstain -> Pandain
bumatlarge -> Divinek -> Hyperbola*
BrownBear -> Hyperbola*
Chaoser -> Abstain
citi.zen -> ketomai
d3_crescentia -> DTA
Divinek -> Abstain -> Hyperbola*
DTA -> Abstain -> Amber[LighT]
Foolishness -> Abstain -> BloodyC0bbler
Hyperbola -> SiNiquity
iNfuNdiBuLuM -> youngminii
Jayme -> Amber[Light] -> youngminii
lakrismamma -> LaXerCannon -> Subversion -> ketomai
LaXercannon -> Abstain
Misder -> Hyperbola* -> LaXercannon
~OpZ~ -> Chaoser -> BloodyC0bbler
Pandain -> Abstain -> Incognito (?) -> BloodyC0bbler -> Hyperbola*
Protactinium -> Abstain
Pyrrhuloxia -> Abstain -> DTA
rastaban -> citi.zen
Roffles -> Abstain
SiNiquity -> Hyperbola*
SouthRawrea -> Abstain
Subversion -> Hyperbola
Tricode -> Abstain
tree.hugger -> LaXerCannon
XeliN -> Brownbear -> youngminii
youngminii -> Pyrrhuloxia -> abstain -> iNfuNdiBuLuM
zeks -> Hyperbola* -> abstain
What interests me is this block of voting: Misder -> Hyperbola Divinek -> Hyperbola Pandain -> Hyperbola Pyrrhuloxia -> Abstain zeks -> Hyperbola SiNiquity -> Hyperbola and these people: Misder -> Hyperbola* -> LaXercannon zeks -> Hyperbola* -> abstain My head hurts so I'll just give a couple one liners for now (I've been digging through this damned thread for like an eternity) The Hyperbola bandwagonMisder @ 10:43 Divinek @ 10:51 Pandain @ 10:56 zeks @ 11:22 SiNiquity @ 11:37 Within an hour, Hyperbola gets bandwagonned and is in first place: Show nested quote +5] Hyperbola (Misder, Divinek, Pandain, Zeks, SiNiquity)
2] DarthThienAn (d3_crescentia, citi.zen)
1] Amber[LighT] (jayme),
1] d3_crescentia (darthThienAn),
1] citi.zen (rastaban)
1] chaoser (~opz~)
1] Divinek (bumatlarge)
1] SiNiquity (Hyperbola)
6] abstain (BloodyC0bbler, LaXerCannon, youngminii, tricode, Pyrrhuloxia, Roffles) @ 11:37 (after roffles' vote) Definitely suspicious considering how fast and compact the votes were together Misder -> Hyperbola* -> LaXercannon zeks -> Hyperbola* -> abstain Misder -> starts bandwagon, jumps off when Hyperbola's screwed zeks -> fourth voter for bandwagon, jumps off when Hyperbola's screwed attempts at lowering suspicion? I already said why I unvoted for Hyperbola. + Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 08:38 Misder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote:Guys, really? Okay so I'm pretty much lynched because you people can't take a joke. So I'm leaving this as my legacy: People I think are mafia or atleast seem fishy:Brown BearShow nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:29 BrownBear wrote:
Ahhhh shti!
I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:31 BrownBear wrote:
Whew, looks like I got back in time. Sorry about that. Time to go read the thread. Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? youngminiiShow nested quote +On July 18 2010 21:01 youngminii wrote:
Actually, I'm not going to overlook it. Why would you place a vote on me 'just in case'? Especially after you heard BC say I was a strong player (which citi.zen evidently disagrees with)? You have these two guys criticising my post when it's not even serious, you jump on this bandwagon and then put a placeholder vote on me just in case?
Does this not strike you as scummy at all? Overly scummy but scummy nonetheless? In fact, I think this is the scummiest post I have seen all game (not that long). However, I don't think you're really that bad at this game and even a mediocre scum wouldn't do that kind of mistake. Will need confirmation on other more experienced TL mafia players on your meta. You are entirely too defensive when a person puts a vote on you as a placeholder. Either you are scum or a very nervous blue. You also endorse no lynching on the first day to appear to be "pro-life" and "for the town". I really don't see your reasoning behind this because a random shot in the dark of inactives or suspicious players can in fact nab a red. And if it doesn't you only lose a green because a blue would at least roleclaim or try to join up with trust circles to avoid getting lynched in this manner. (Divided blues that don't make connections are really hindering the town). SiNiquityI had absolutely no evidence against you before but now you are starting to stink of scum at first you took my accusal of you as a joke and brushed it off, but when people started accusing me of being mafia you saw an opportunity and went into action to provide as much evidence as you could find against me by even looking into past games. Then you just completely shut your mouth and is now waiting for the situation to close to start talking again (afraid you'll say something to bring attention to you and me being the perfect scapegoat). Also your previous posts were really try-hard in my opinion. You contributed absolutely nothing by typing up lengthy posts that just summarized what everyone said. Besides that you clarified and discussed some rules of the game and such. You want to make it seem like you are contributing and keep a neutral and non aggressive stance like a reporter so no one would suspect you. This could just be your playstyle but it seems like a very cautious red one to me. LaXerCannonShow nested quote +On July 18 2010 09:30 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 18 2010 09:04 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
If we randomly pick someone, we have a better chance of getting a blue then a red. Why don't we try voting for who we think is red? It's not like the game will automatically get easier for us as it goes on, since there aren't any clues. Also, at this point everyone's votes are spread out so we are nearly guaranteed an innocent lynch. Getting everyone to agree to vote for the random could be awfully tough.
IF we wanted to do the random thing, we could tie it in advance to something numerical in one or both of the playoff games tonight. Like number of factories made by WeMade players, or that number divided by two, or taking the number of letters in each winning player's ID and looping back to 1 if it goes over 30. It wouldn't be random, but we could independently agree on it, and none of us could influence it in advance. We don't know the distribution of red/blue/green in the list so it is almost as good as random unless the reds get us to agree on a bad number (like maybe they get us to agree on something times 2, which would never land on the first person on the list). We can take this step further by listing inactives in reverse order and numbering them from 1-X, use a number we obtain from the second paragraph and count through the list, looping when needed. I'm getting carried away here... I think lynching an inactive player is the best course of action. I also think we should get a list of players who are new to this mafia game so we know who they are. A new player who's scum can easily hide under that mask; I think it's best we can monitor them from the get go. Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 09:33 LaXerCannon wrote:
##Abstain in case I can't find it within myself to wake up early tomorrow to post (no other time >_>) Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 11:38 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 18 2010 10:40 youngminii wrote:On July 18 2010 10:13 SiNiquity wrote:On July 18 2010 09:59 youngminii wrote:On July 18 2010 09:51 Bill Murray wrote:
EVERYONE abstaining? I guess it'd no lynch. Didn't expect that to happen! Okay so everyone should abstain imo. If you have any objections to this idea, please raise it asap because we need everyone to switch their vote to abstaining. Even one vote = lynch and that will be very suspicious of the person who left their vote by 'accident'. ##Unvote Pyrr
##Vote Abstain I'm not sure I like it. The inactives will get modkilled, no one gets lynched, the mafia kills 2 more people, and then we're back at square one, no? On July 18 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote:
No-Lynch?
Oh hell no absolutely not.
I don't understand how a no-lynch is beneficial to the town if you're going to kill an inactive anyway. You learn absolutely nothing from it, you don't even have a CHANCE at hitting a red, and you're basically wasting a whole day on nothing.
No lynch is a terrible idea. If we lynch someone on the first day without any good reason there's a solid chance (12/15) that we'll hit a townie. That's 80%. There's also a better chance of lynching a blue than there is of scum. A no lynch is a gift that we should utilize instead of RVS. Bad idea, there's no incentive for town to post -> silent town = dead town Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 16:13 LaXerCannon wrote:
playoffs are done for today! my next post will be in....around 16-18 hours. First LaxerCannon recommends lynching inactives but then goes ahead and abstains. Then he goes on again about how we should just line up inactives to lynch and doesn't change his vote. Then he vanishes. This is fishy for two reasons. First the obvious contradiction, and second, the effort to try and direct suspicion away from him. He keeps pushing the idea to lynch random inactive people while the town debates over a few suspects and really does nothing but push the town in the wrong direction: not analysing the game but killing off quiet people. Then he talks about playoffs and keeps endorcing random picking ideas. That is wayy too anti-town to be a blue. And if he's green he doesn't care about the game much. ------------------------------------------------------- this is all I have now and hope I at least contributed to the game before I die sorry about trying to have fun guys :/ j/k ~peace
Vote: LaXerCannonblah. I don't want to abstain... but I don't know who to lynch I vote LaXerCannon because his posts don't have any substance whatsoever. He tries to contribute, but doesn't give any astounding idea. His ideas are based on previous ideas that have been said, and doesn't say anything new. Then he distracts from the conversation. Either Hyperbola is a mafia member that is trying every attempt to get out, by making false accusations, or he is a townie who make a mistake but is trying to amend it by giving analysis. I tend to lean towards the latter. Plus, Hyperbola is now being active, which is good. If he is a mafia member, his activeness may work against him because he will have to dodge a lot to make it seem like he is a townie. If he is a townie, well, good. An active townie a very very good. Hopefully, I made the right decision... Also, as many people already stated, Hyperbola was not screwed all the way. It was 6-5 for Hyperbola, a very close vote. Anyways... ITS 9:27!!!!!! WHERE IS THE DAY POST!!!! The initial miniwagon was enough to REALLY up his chances at being lynched. AT least on TL massive swing votes to lynch someone else in the last few hours is very rare and I've only seen it happen a very few times. I thought that wagon was ridiculous from the start and then people jump on it with absolutely no real reasoning whatsoever and weren't challenged on it....either that or they IGNORED their challenges. So yea Brownbear what the hell dude? Real reasoning for voting for him besides "lol I didn't know I could abstain but I found out later and didn't change my vote" On July 20 2010 20:18 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 15:38 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
BrownBear i'd like to see more input from the rest of the town but i guess my sentiments on vets claiming boils to this:
1. the town wants the mafia to inadvertently waste hits on vets
2. vets claiming practically guarantees that this will not happen You have to balance the fact that you have a central confirmed townie with which to operate from. Randomly hitting a Vet is so rare as it is that I just don't see a huge benefit in keeping them hidden when one has obviously been hit...or the medic got a really lucky protection on someone. I personally like the vet claiming idea because on their own they are a pretty weak blue role. On July 21 2010 08:20 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 06:02 chaoser wrote:
Also, I'm going to put in my vote for Subversion. So far I don't know how I feel about BrownBear. At first I wanted to vote him. He's been playing badly and didn't do anything day one. But then at the same time people jumped all over voting for him in the beginning until just recently when people switched to Subversion, or at least it feels like that.
Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left.
##vote Subversion I personally understand the brownbear vote because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Subversion's strange comments have been well...strange and I'm really itching to vote for him because his foot in mouth syndrome could get us in trouble later in the game when saying something stupid can have catastrophic consequences. That being said
##Vote:Subversion On July 23 2010 13:27 Jayme wrote:
I have returned from the longest work day ever.
Reading the las 30 freaking pages but I'm around On July 23 2010 13:53 Jayme wrote:
I am not a fan of subversion..still. I think he has terrible foot in mouth syndrome and has what amounts to a legion of followers ready to defend him anytime a serious accusation comes down.
subversion should have been lynched, would have told us a lot.
I'm looking at phyrr now. He's jerked around an entire town before as mafia and nobody ever really challenged it. I don't think it's the case this time but it should be looked at.
Further the town needs to stop with the bandwagons. Any bandwagon after day 1 is needlessly destructive...stop doing it. On July 23 2010 13:27 Jayme wrote:
I have returned from the longest work day ever.
Reading the las 30 freaking pages but I'm around On July 23 2010 13:53 Jayme wrote:
I am not a fan of subversion..still. I think he has terrible foot in mouth syndrome and has what amounts to a legion of followers ready to defend him anytime a serious accusation comes down.
subversion should have been lynched, would have told us a lot.
I'm looking at phyrr now. He's jerked around an entire town before as mafia and nobody ever really challenged it. I don't think it's the case this time but it should be looked at.
Further the town needs to stop with the bandwagons. Any bandwagon after day 1 is needlessly destructive...stop doing it.
Putting these out right now; seems that both were fairly inactive but definitely seemed like a blue snipe. Or maybe one of these got vigi hit and Mafia hit BC? Have to wait for a claim I guess.
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Massive post incoming. Haven't read thread past this post:
On July 23 2010 15:29 SiNiquity wrote:
Hmm interesting. So BC is either a Veteran or was protected by the remaining medic (orr Medics can protect the night they're killed, and Roffles protected BC). Is that last one even possible?
But it would be nice to have it answered as well. Generally, Medics can protect the night they die and I should assume no reason it is changed now. In my upcoming post, it is thus addressed as such.
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On July 23 2010 15:29 SiNiquity wrote:
Hmm interesting. So BC is either a Veteran or was protected by the remaining medic (orr Medics can protect the night they're killed, and Roffles protected BC). Is that last one even possible?
Medics can protect the night they die, at least in most games. If it was Roffles, we will never know. Hopefully though it was the other Medic...
There were three "hits" last night. Jayme and Roffles died, and BloodyC0bbler claims he took a hit.
Right now, there are a few cases:
- 1) Jayme and Roffles were hit by Mafia. BloodyC0bbler was hit by the Vigilante.
- 1a) BloodyC0bbler is a Veteran and lost his extra life to the Vigilante hit.
- 1b) BloodyC0bbler was protected by a Medic.
- 1b1) The Medic that protected BloodyC0bbler was Roffles.
- 1b2) The Medic that protected BloodyC0bbler was the other Medic (not Roffles).
- 1c) BloodyC0bbler is a Veteran and was protected by a Medic.
And the same follows if Jayme/Roffles were targeted by the Vigilante and BloodyC0bbler was hit by the Mafia.
However, BloodyC0bbler could be faking the hit, and he would only do that if he were Mafia. This is easily remediable if the Vigilante who fired the shot steps up and says who he shot. We can get a semi-confirm if we lynch that Vigilante, and it's even easier for us if more than one Vigilante claims.
There is no reason for the Vigilante not to step up at this point. Doing so is anti-town and denies us further information we so desperately need.
So where do we go from here?
Unfortunately, we still have not much from Day 2 to go for. We could test our two remaining lynch candidates, Subversion and Chaoser, or we could go even further and look at BrownBear, who dropped off the list early.
If 1a) is true, then we wasted our Veteran's extra life. The trick here is hoping that our Detectives checked him. There is a viable chance that BloodyC0bbler is Godfather since he is one of the "key" players in this Mafia game, but I can WiFOM a "why" or "why not" out of it. If a Detective checked him, it might be the time to speak out in the thread, or at least use his circle (if BloodyC0bbler is Godfather, then the Detective should have a mouth) or use his Night 1 Check to announce it. Actually, it's best if the Detective Mouth announces it, unless it was a Medic. If the mouth (mouth = result of Night 1 Check, again) is a Medic, then the Detective himself should step up, since the Medic can save him/her. Regardless, if a Detective checked BloodyC0bbler, we need you to step up and give the town some information. Staying quiet is NOT the answer anymore. If BloodyC0bbler was the Godfather, chances are he took the Townie role, since the number of roles is not undisclosed this game. If a Detective role checked and it came back blue, in my eyes that lessens the threat of Godfather-BC considerably. Less likely is the Veteran role, but once again we know there are only two real Veterans in the game.
If 1b1): We're out of luck here. If Roffles died, he can no longer confirm if he protected or not. At this point, we only have the other Medic. This is a bad scenario for us, since the town as an aggregate will not get much information. The only other person who knows if the other Medic, since he/she will not have protected BloodyC0bbler. And in the case of both protecting (unlikely) then the situation is easier. Return to my explanation of how Scenario 1A) should be dealt with, since we have no way of knowing if BloodyC0bbler is the Godfather or not. If we had no conclusive checks, refer to the solution for 1b2).
If 1b2): It is still risky for Medic to reveal himself/herself to BloodyC0bbler, but we might have to take a gamble of faith. Far better is it for the Vigilante to claim in thread, and the Vigilante and Medic find each other through PMs. This is our consolation prize here, since we will be able to start a town circle at least.
If Jayme/Roffles were hit by a Vigilante. In that case, we NEED the Vigilante to claim and explain himself. If this is the case, then BloodyC0bbler was hit by Mafia and therefore he is a confirmed townsperson, since Mafia cannot hit their own. The exception to this case is if BloodyC0bbler is faking, and the Mafia had targeted Roffles/Jayme and hits overlapped. In that case, generally the scenario is whoever sent in the kill order first gets the kill and if the Mafia get it in first, the Vigilante gets his kill refunded. It is not detailed in the Original Post, but other games I have read it follows as such. Another way these things are usually resolved is that the blue actions go out before Mafia actions do, and then Mafia have to repick. In that case, it's still relatively easy to catch BloodyC0bbler for lying since the Vigilante should either know his kill went through or told it was refunded. If we have a scenario where the Vigilante got his kill through, then either BloodyC0bbler was hit by Mafia or is lying. And if he is town, there is no point in lying.
TL;DR: There is no TL;DR. Town is in a bad situation right now and by skipping this informative post you will be helping the Mafia win. Please read it.
My thoughts on this: a weekend is coming up. This next day cycle will be played out mostly on Friday and Saturday. From the thread, we see that BloodyC0bber is playing mostly after work, but most people do not work on weekends. From past games, he is fully capable of stepping his own game up, and Mafia were afraid. Of course, it's just as likely that somebody is trying to be a hero (Never do this Vigilantes, since your Town-sided KP is very precious later in the game when numbers are too low for voting) and tried to kill BloodyC0bbler. From his posts, BloodyC0bbler is not anti-town; in fact he has made the most pro-town post that was unfortunately mostly ignored by the flaming and spamming. If you have not yet done so, go back and review this post.
Too much to think about right now, and I'm really tired. I have to entertain house guests this weekend, so my activity will be limited. As for now, good night folks.
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Wow... uh... words cannot express how sad I am that my hour and some minutes spent writing that post just went to waste.
Still, read it anyway. I don't think Tricode is lying (though why would you target somebody you want to remain alive?) but just in case...
Good night town.
##Vote: Abstain
##Vote: Double Lynch
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Just because Tricode is willing to die doesn't mean we should let him. Even though if he is a powerless Vigilante at this point, knowingly offing him (even when he wants to) is just wasting another townsperson's life. In a similar vein, it is not good to lynch BloodyC0bbler just to test this. Some of you have brought up the scenario where both Tricode and BloodyC0bbler are lying (both Mafia), though that would be an insanely stupid plot that relies on WIFOM whispering to us "...are Mafia really that bold?"
Regardless, what I propose is this:
We have Tricode who is willing to sacrifice himself, both so he can get out of the game and so that he can help the town gain information with his death. However, the objective of our Day Phase is to eliminate Mafia. We have already lost one of our Kill Power roles, and though the other one is still out there that means we've effectively lost one day's worth of time to root out the Mafia. We still have not yet heard anything back from Detectives, but if a Detective checked back somebody who was red then obviously, that's a lynch right there. Some of you seem to be building cases as well, and perhaps that will help us net a red as well.
If, like on Day 2, it comes down to (plausibly) all suitable lynch candidates being town-aligned (though we still do not know about Subversion or Chaoser) we lynch Tricode since he is our backup, though only if no seriously plausible candidate is found. I'm not talking about your "I have a grudge against him or he made one silly comment" kind of deal, but a very powerful case.
It's just an idea, so it's open for discussion. How does that sound?
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On July 24 2010 01:50 SiNiquity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2010 01:38 citi.zen wrote:
It does confirm that either Tricode and BC are both red, or Triode is innocent. So it tells us more about Tricode than about BC at this time. True. Though if Tricode were Mafia, it would give us 2 Mafia members immediately, which would be a wealth of information for us. It would be one hell of a Mafia gamble to fake all of this, as they would have to bank on us not lynching Tricode.
There's nothing to gain from this for the Mafia except for confusion. As it's already been said, at most one of them can be Godfather. It's a huge risk right there to assume neither of them have been checked in the four checks total. Even if that goes through, what do they gain? They don't cast suspicion on anybody in the town. Even so, as already pointed out lynching the one who claims Vigilante does not tell us anything about the person claiming to have taken the shot. I don't see a plausible reason why Mafia would do this, since even if both are not lynched today, there's nothing they can do about Detective checks in the night, and at that point the Suicide Bomber would have to kill one of his Mafia buddies for the "two-fer."
Ah, I just thought about how the suicide bomber plays into all of this. Will think about it because it can potentially change the "why" and "what has to be done", but guests have arrived. Toodles for the day.
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Well, guests are finally asleep.
But Proleague is on, and apparently I just missed an amazing game. There's a lot to think about with citi.zen's claim. I'm tempted to trust it because it sounds amazing, but it is a do-or-die kind of situation we're in right now. If citi.zen and his Detective are legitimate, then Mafia is in a huge bind. It seems nice, but I don't get the part where citi.zen wants blues to mass roleclaim to him? Not a good idea to concentrate everything on one person, especially since he isn't really confirmed to us himself.
Initially, I really disliked this idea because of the implications if citi.zen and company were faking. Even if a fake is counter-claimed, if mouths have already spilled their information trading one red for one or two Detectives (both may claim separately) is a huge profit for Mafia, since with that way there's no way for town to convincingly figure out who is Mafia.
However, upon thinking about it the idea seems good--if the time limits are followed. However, the original plan did not include this, so it may already be too late. If Detectives held off for that time period though, we should be okay.
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It's been too hard to keep up today for the little amount of time I have. tree.hugger I think has said it best.
##Vote citi.zen
I never stopped to think about how BloodyC0bbler and Tricode could be orchestrating this though. Definitely need to watch for them tomorrow, since with two hours left it's hard to get anything solid.
Time to go continue making dumplings; will hopefully be back around thirty minutes before deadline.
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What the fuck happened today.
Wow.
I just finished catching up, but I've got to go again. Read up to some part on Page 115.
I'll be back later tonight probably during SPL commercials to type up a long post.
We're in a damn bad situation right now, and it does not help that we had a false blue claim.
There's only one Medic, which means we cannot protect targets if the Mafia really want to drive things home. Never mind the suicide bomber, we cannot even protect against a normal double-stacked shot.
This is a very bad situation, and I'm going to mull over it. Perhaps there will be a solution. We have a few unconfirmed claims (Tricode, SouthRawrea, BloodyC0bbler, d3_crescentia) and two Detectives. We have split camps in the town. We have voting lists. These things should be able to find us something.
Unfortunately, for now it's the Mafia's time to shine. However, the Mad Hatter is still alive. The Vigilante is powerless, or so one would claim. The two Detectives are still alive, and I'm assuming they have not made contact, and we still have a Medic.
I'll address the rest of the blue roles later, but if you are the Medic: trust nobody unless they've checked you to be a Medic. And if that happens, there's no need to reveal your role to anybody else. Once the Medic dies our days are numbered.
We're in a sticky situation right now, but there may still be a way to get out of it. As for the rest of the town, do not flame this night away as the last one was. I would volunteer to do it, but I know that I'm terrible at doing so, but we really need character analysis. What I propose is this:
Everybody goes back and does a full character analysis on the person below or above (skip dead people, so only people still living) them in the list. For instance, if we are going down the list I, being number 29, would skip Roffles who is dead at 30 and go back to analyze tree.hugger at 1. Go back and pull up all their posts. Read them, analyze them. Look at how they voted, who they tied in with. Who they were against. If you are town, give your genuine thoughts, and read as if you were reading from an observer's perspective and had no bias clouding your judgment. I will hazard a guess that not enough of us have been going back through posts, and stuff has been buried in the thread since we are not backtracking. I am guilty of this, due to a lack of time, but with the next 23 hours that remain, please do this.
Once you have completed your living person, go look over the dead. Do the same thing. Everybody posts about the dead people, and we shall see how the "analysis" differs.
Towns, especially TL towns from my reading, are very hard to organize, since there is no clear "leader" role in this type of format. It was going to be citi.zen, but now he's dead and was not, as he claimed, a Mad Hatter. The real Mad Hatter and Detective coupling, assuming they are genuine and not a Godfather/Mafia ploy, are now still stuck in the shadows to my knowledge. What I am suggesting gives us a semblance of organization without the clear need for a leader.
In short, analyze your target player on the roster list. Analyze the dead people. Pull up all of their posts and check through them. We cannot afford to let the Mafia just take control of the town on a day-to-day basis; we have to start stringing things along now.
Longer post to come later.
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Thread is very quiet right now. Going to start working on my post now. I know that zeks has claimed Mad Hatter, but please do not ignore my post. Analysis is something we've missed this game and it's got to be done.
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Fuck it, I'm a third of the way through my post. SPL is over, and now I've decided that I'll continue writing and post it when Day 3 starts. Going to be out all tomorrow until probably after deadline; sorry in advance for inactivity.
Make time and finish posts though tomorrow; I would say preferably put them out during night, but there's pros and cons to that.
Good night, town.
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On July 26 2010 15:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Before day ends we need to figure out what claims we have had and so on.
Can someone in / understanding this "town circle" thing make a chart visualizing this?
I'm serious. It can be ms paint or whatever I just think it would help.
I have just caught up on thread.
And it's a shitstorm.
Ignore what I said about doing analysis. This is much bigger.
Everybody, if you have been wondering who the mystery man in Pandain's post (Mr. ???) is, wonder no more. It is I.
And now, I can say that Pandain has been lying to me.
On July 26 2010 15:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 15:21 Divinek wrote:On July 26 2010 15:14 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
#vote SouthRawrea
#vote Pandain
I'm just going to start with who I know for 100% sure has lying. Hasn't worked well so far but I don't give a fuck. my logical trail takes me down the same path, ill likely end up on a liar as well for my other vote because if you're town for fuck sakes dont openly lie to the town, at least in such a stupid and poor manner Just to clear it up, I did NOT lie to town. I lied only to Youngmini because we were going to let him into the circle but had to be sure he wasn't GF(since he had checked green.). I did NOT lie to the town or jeopardize it, until Youngmini reaveled it, probably with good intentions :/. It was ???,Subversion, and I's secret expirement. If I still lived, than youngmini wasn't GF and we would let him in our group. That's the extent of my lie, to youngmini for one day. The pms with Subversion I posted verify this.
With a full game's worth of PMs from both Pandain and Subversion, I can show you that this "secret experiment" was not anything planned between the three of us. In fact, Pandain went at it on his own, and did not consult Subversion or myself.
You may ask, how am I confirmed? I started PMing Subversion sometime after the first night, when I realized he had soft claimed blue in thread. Through PMs, he told me he was a Detective, and that his first check had been youngminii but he was suspicious that youngminii was Godfather. Disregarding that, I asked him to check me Night 2 so that we could have a fully confirmed circle (and as a test to see if he would get my role), but after a while he decided to check Amber[LighT] instead, as already said earlier in the thread.
Regarding Pandain, and how he comes into this: during Day 2, Subversion was on the line to be lynched, and I pulled Pandain off of him because I still believed that Subversion was Detective. Yes, it is a risk, but the plan was calculated. If Subversion had died during Night 2, then Pandain would have been outed as Mafia infiltration. Sacrificing one Detective for Mafia is always worth it, especially in this format, and that was my failsafe.
However, Subversion lived through the night, so I began to think Pandain was more legitimate. After all, the rules of the game (even stickied in the Mafia threads) say to kill blues as you find them if you are Mafia, and Subversion was still alive. However, at this point Subversion was too afraid still to tell youngminii AND Amber[LighT], since he feared both of them could be the Godfather. Not wanting him to out himself too early, I thought it would be best for him, myself, and Pandain to stay quiet, and to wait out the day.
Then citi.zen's plan came in, and this is where things started going awry.
I do not have much time per day to dedicate to Mafia, especially with guests this weekend, and so I returned to my computer with a message from Pandain saying that he had told youngminii that he was Detective and that youngminii would be the mouth. Apparently, he had not consulted Subversion about this and when I talked to Subversion later that day he was very distressed and expressed his doubts. I, too, secretly began to have them, but they were still unfounded: Pandain seems to post impulsively, so I chalked his latest scheme up to that.
citi.zen saw through this, of course, and then the thread went to shit with massive claims. Ah, before I forget, Pandain also wanted me to help him call for a mass roleclaim to Tricode, who wouldn't have been confirmed at that point due to conflicting calls over town kill power roles.
And so we have it here. Mafia killed Subversion, and I had a PM from Pandain telling me that the "other Detective" was going to check Subversion tonight, but to "keep Subversion from thinking that, and to just play it cool and to have him check Misder/lakrismamma.
And here we are now.
Town, I am going to bed soon, but if you want a roster of PMs, just call for them. I can provide them with rapidity that begets falseness, and I invite you to scrutinize them all.
What am I saying with this post? Pandain is Mafia? No, simply that he lied, and "took initiative" and tried to implement his circle. It still is awfully suspicious the way things turned out, but one thing's for sure: if we're lynching all liars, Pandain has some stuff to explain.
Edited hanging bold tag.
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Damn it, hanging bold tag...
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Actually, I'm just going to put out PMs here now. I apologize for any repeats, since Pandain tended to send sometimes two or three from the same PM-thread before I could respond to the first one, so I tried to consolidate.
Subversion's suspicion PM:
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: citi.zen's plan.
Date: 7/24/10 19:51
just feel like im losing control of the situation here. he's a bit impulsive, and i'd rather make the decisions myself than have to keep going thru him. also may seem suspicious later on.
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Original Message:
It was kind of weird that he did so... on his own as well. That could have potentially owned you if you had done so at the same time...
If you are going to do so, at least wait the time period okay? We might still have a counter-claim. If I were citi.zen and red, trading one red is worth getting two Detectives, since then the town has no way to find Mafia, right? Even so, I think it's too risky. What's wrong with using Pandain anyway, beyond the "convolution" factor.
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Original Message:
What do you think of it?
There are a few holes...
Not bad at all.
Some things I need to explain.
I checked young and he was townie. But the problem is him ORR amber COULD be GF. So pandain and I had this plan. pandain pm'd young and told him HE was the DT and had checked him. now we wait and see if pandain dies next, then we know young is scum.
But now with citizen's plan, pandain has PM'd citizen saying he is the DT. He did this without waiting for a response from me, he's a bit of a loose cannon like that, keeps making decisions without my approval.
anyway, i told him now that we need to tell citizen and the other DT that I am in fact the real DT, or else it gets way too convoluted, and obviously explain the plan about young.
this may be risky, but he keeps taking decisions into his own hands now, and i dont like that. I don't want to have to do everything through him anymore.
PMs with Pandain (apologies for messiness):
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: O GOD IM SORRY
Date: 7/25/10 13:59
I'll try
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Original Message:
An excellent one. I would definitely recommend it!
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Original Message:
was that a good movie
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Original Message:
And I quote from the movie Inception:
"Will you take a leap of faith?"
You've got your chance.
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Original Message:
trust me this time
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Original Message:
...Pandain, you do realize that if there is Mafia in the other circle you effectively just killed both DTs if the suicide bomber decides he wants his 72 virgins.
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Original Message:
dt is prob going to check sub.
We should not let sub know anything though.
Act if normal, try to get him to check misder/lakris.
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Original Message:
Sigh, why do you do these things.
It's okay, have Subversion check him tonight to verify him.
Though why did you give the name up without confirmation?
If Subversion dies tonight, then we know something's up...
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Original Message:
I told zeks whos in our circle along with dt.
I'm afraid I fadoodled this up.
So I either gave us a chance, or fadoodled us up
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Original Message:
Just keep your cool, and don't out Subversion. He seems to have gone AWOL, but I'll talk to him when he gets around to the night.
As for the check, I'm not sure still.
Be back later.
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Original Message:
Youngmini revealed me. What a badunkadunk
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Original Message:
Alright, but don't give into him either. Just keep it in case he decides to try to out you. Besides, we have the trump card that you are not really the DT, and he is safe either way.
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Original Message:
Im not going to post the pm chain yet. Especially at this time. we'll talk about it together later.
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He thinks. Still, what kind of threat is that...
Anti-town behavior, no matter what he "thinks."
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No he knows(thinks) I false claimed.
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Original Message:
What's wrong with this kid. He thinks you're DT and is pressuring you to reveal that you are DT, and that you'll be killed during the night? Post the whole PM chain. This is ridiculous. If you were DT and listened, and they killed SouthRawrea who is Hatter, it's good for them. If you don't, he "reveals" to Mafia who the DT is, and they kill him. BAD for town either way.
Post the PM chain. I will be back after deadline; guests are beckoning. Good luck.
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I told him youngmini was safe, part of my dt role. And that is the PM. From "Anyway yeah..." to "In this claim."
I respond:"Haha I'm the DT.
I think you have too much trust in citizen and his "DT."
I mean, now that I think about it, why would citizen risk the whole town on a plan that could potentially give this unconfirmed DT all the info mafia needed. "
To which he then responds.
"Okay then, you better hope you're right. If you're red, the best way to go about this is to lynch SouthRawr because I'll be revealing you tonight (before mafia get their night kills by the way, so that's not a way out).
If you're DT and citi.zen really is red, then we're all dandy. But if you're DT and citi.zen is not red (I don't see why this would happen), you're still going to be revealed tonight."
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Original Message:
Post that PM you got from him. I don't understand; even if he's going to throw you under the bus why is he implicating Amber[LighT]? Something's not right with youngminii--for the better part of the day he's been saying "lynch southrawrea since if he's bomber he'll have bomb on chaoser" but he's also saying that southrawrea is red. I got a two minute reprieve, and haven't read thread, but this is a bad threat to make.
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Anyway yeah I'm telling you right now to vote for SouthRawr (and tell amber[light] to). If you don't, I am going to publicly tell everyone who you are at night and that you false claimed DT (assuming citi.zen is green/blue).
Yes, this is a threat. Yes, I will tell everyone that you are claiming DT. Yes, I will include amber[light] in this claim.
THAT is from Youngmini. Dont know how he figured out. Hope you've been following thread, theres been so much happening.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: URGENT URGENT URGENT
Date: 7/25/10 09:19
yeah, if he tries to i'll just be like "Im not dt"
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Original Message:
Alright, but don't give into him either. Just keep it in case he decides to try to out you. Besides, we have the trump card that you are not really the DT, and he is safe either way.
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Original Message:
Im not going to post the pm chain yet. Especially at this time. we'll talk about it together later.
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Original Message:
He thinks. Still, what kind of threat is that...
Anti-town behavior, no matter what he "thinks."
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Original Message:
No he knows(thinks) I false claimed.
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Original Message:
What's wrong with this kid. He thinks you're DT and is pressuring you to reveal that you are DT, and that you'll be killed during the night? Post the whole PM chain. This is ridiculous. If you were DT and listened, and they killed SouthRawrea who is Hatter, it's good for them. If you don't, he "reveals" to Mafia who the DT is, and they kill him. BAD for town either way.
Post the PM chain. I will be back after deadline; guests are beckoning. Good luck.
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Original Message:
I told him youngmini was safe, part of my dt role. And that is the PM. From "Anyway yeah..." to "In this claim."
I respond:"Haha I'm the DT.
I think you have too much trust in citizen and his "DT."
I mean, now that I think about it, why would citizen risk the whole town on a plan that could potentially give this unconfirmed DT all the info mafia needed. "
To which he then responds.
"Okay then, you better hope you're right. If you're red, the best way to go about this is to lynch SouthRawr because I'll be revealing you tonight (before mafia get their night kills by the way, so that's not a way out).
If you're DT and citi.zen really is red, then we're all dandy. But if you're DT and citi.zen is not red (I don't see why this would happen), you're still going to be revealed tonight."
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Original Message:
Post that PM you got from him. I don't understand; even if he's going to throw you under the bus why is he implicating Amber[LighT]? Something's not right with youngminii--for the better part of the day he's been saying "lynch southrawrea since if he's bomber he'll have bomb on chaoser" but he's also saying that southrawrea is red. I got a two minute reprieve, and haven't read thread, but this is a bad threat to make.
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Original Message:
Anyway yeah I'm telling you right now to vote for SouthRawr (and tell amber[light] to). If you don't, I am going to publicly tell everyone who you are at night and that you false claimed DT (assuming citi.zen is green/blue).
Yes, this is a threat. Yes, I will tell everyone that you are claiming DT. Yes, I will include amber[light] in this claim.
THAT is from Youngmini. Dont know how he figured out. Hope you've been following thread, theres been so much happening.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: What...the...Fadoodle
Date: 7/25/10 07:30
This is Pm between me and zeks
Mesends video of "somebody watching me"
Him:If you are what I think you are you're on a path of being LVP.
*word slip*
Me:Least valuable player?
hehe
Him:You better not be DT.
If you are its obvious you haven't checked me. Or you'd understand everything.
ME:Way to make everything so mysterious
Him: Hope you got that
Now here I am saying...
What the fadoodle?
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Also:
Date: 7/25/10 06:59
I'm voting for Citizen now.
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Original Message:
Consolidating. This is true; I don't think Mafia would jump out to help their leader unless he was in deep shit. Maybe citi.zen isn't there and they're all panicking now?
If citi.zen is Hatter and dies, then he'll get Mafia. We'll get information from that since right now we all seem to be evenly divided, so we can go pick up supporters. And if SouthRawrea is Mafia as well, we definitely destroy him tomorrow with our double lynch. That's a guarantee right there of getting one Mafia right? And we should be able to get more based on DT checks. One thing I just thought of is if citi.zen is Mafia and we don't kill him, we are risking our DTs tonight, and if one of them dies then it's bad for us.
I think they're being convinced themselves... no reason overextending at this point. I'm going to wait for citi.zen to defend though before becoming too biased. American justice is supposed to be impartial, right, and the defendant should always be allowed to speak.
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True.At the same time, will that negate his plan? It had holes anyway but it had potential
Don't forget in that plan it's possible we'll only get one mafia if a mafia fake claims DT to a "trusted rep"
Do you want to try to convince the others yet? Get tree hugger to help for more momentum?
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I trust him. Besides, at this point both are potential Hatters right? citi.zen will have both his bombs placed, and SouthRawrea only has one. citi.zen, being astute (if he really is hatter) will have bombs on at least one Mafia, while SouthRawrea being new is more likely to kill town. I think it's actually win-win for us if we lynch citi.zen: we'll probably off a Mafia, and if citi.zen is Mafia then we can control SouthRawrea's bombs to make them more useful, then have him lynched next day once he gets both.
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Citizen has been far more active and contributive than south. And yeah, chaoser and young are probably not on the same team lol, they hate each other too much. Than replace young with sinquity. Hehe.
South does seem more genuine, that is for sure. Just for that, maybe I should trust him. He's SO believable. Maybe he's good actor? though he is new
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Will respond to all here.
Your list seems sound; I don't know about Subversion though since I still believe him. If he's faking we'll know.
Notice that bumatlarge jumped out to defend citi.zen early but then disappeared again? zeks is also randomly suspicious, I agree he might be Mafia. Good call on that earlier by the way. I would totally have ignored him. youngminii is pushing very hard for Chaoser... you still believe them both to be Mafia? Of course, it could be a ploy.
I'd rather save SouthRawrea. He has been active and has provided his defense, and seems more genuine. citi.zen hasn't even shown his face since attacking SouthRawrea's counterclaim. Instead, there's a slew of random people defending him... and why?
zeks could be Mafia, and if we catch citi.zen we catch him.
I'm still very confused about all this though; not 100% on anything. Mafia is too perplexing, sometimes.
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Also: If we want to save south we need to act now.
Lynching south does give us info though. Alot of info. Do you think it would be worth it just to lynch him for that?
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: URGENT URGENT URGENT
Date: 7/25/10 08:57
Anyway yeah I'm telling you right now to vote for SouthRawr (and tell amber[light] to). If you don't, I am going to publicly tell everyone who you are at night and that you false claimed DT (assuming citi.zen is green/blue).
Yes, this is a threat. Yes, I will tell everyone that you are claiming DT. Yes, I will include amber[light] in this claim.
THAT is from Youngmini. Dont know how he figured out. Hope you've been following thread, theres been so much happening.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Citizens' plan
Date: 7/25/10 06:32
arghhhhh zeks is mafia. I know it!
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Original Message:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2010 14:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On July 24 2010 14:25 Divinek wrote:
On July 24 2010 14:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On July 24 2010 14:13 youngminii wrote:
What's suspicious is that you're trying to block this from happening. Not pointing fingers but it's quite obvious that this is a pretty solid plan with minimal chances of being infiltrated by scum, even then it will be obvious as the game progresses if he's lying or not.
From blocking it? I actually contest many claims in many games that are completely out of left field. No one agreed to claiming to someone who thought d3 was almost fully legit, yet your agreeing to claim to someone who has appeared out as the last KP role? as well as saying "sup im the medic spokesmen, got myself a circle already" etc...
Its too good to be true this early.
But surely if he's coming out as the last kp role it would have to be contested if he's lying? Though I could think of some reasons why the remaining kp person might not want to counter claim him it seems like it would be worth it to bust a fake circle of trust
Say for instance He is lying.
It means two dts (if not in contact with eachother) pm him themselves, or through a mouth, those mouths are then talking to him. He can put them in contact with eachother, they see it as semi legit, then a period goes by they all mass claim him (as he asked for blue roles) he then proceeds to blue snipe, where it costs the rest only one red, to off 2+ blues.
WE also don't know if the last KP role is a hatter or a vig. If its a vig, he counterclaims and then it comes down to a war of which of them gets lynched. People fearing that he is in fact a hatter, off the vig see his flip and go oh shit. Conversely the mafia could send someone up and do the same thing.
I believe the proper amendmant to citi.zens plan is if HE is not the center of said circle. Or be lynched to prove the legitmacy of his claim. He can put the other checked person his dt has checked with the the other dt's liason and by dying confirms his claim DT's can then claim straight through the liasons, and one of those liasons can take part of town leadership and pass roles to dts. There would be two people to counterclaim if someone tried to jump up and take info, and would be alot more reliable than trusting one persons word.
The only issue with that plan is if he is infact hatter then the town would have lost its last kp role and hope that his current bomb placement takes reds out.
Look, again, Tricode is not 100% confirmed. We have three conflicting blue claims, and it's just as possible as the others faking for Tricode to be faking, meaning him and BloodyC0bbler are in conjunction. Why else would he say to keep BloodyC0bbler alive as long as possible when he shot him? The point is, you don't mass claim unless you are certain, since it's a lose-all strategy if he isn't genuine. I'm not saying I don't believe he is, but being skeptical wins you Mafia games.
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Original Message:
1. What exactly was the addendum bc offered?
2. How should we adjust it to make it as useful to town as possible.
I personally think we SHOULD roleclaim to tricode. I think he's confirmed. I'm sure of it. Citizen only claimed because "he saw an opportunity" (if he's really blue" and south only claimed because "he saw it getting way out of control."
quotes doesn't indicate what they word for word said, just what their overall message said.
Tricode is the real genuine one. He has a reason(must...kill...bc) and claimed only after arguing whether it was worth it. Seems honest to me.
I'm still confused why you wouldn't want to roleclaim to him.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: My conspiracy theory
Date: 7/25/10 06:09
In tree huggers post, is he saying that subversion, young, and citizen are all mafia? or town? 'Or what.
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Original Message:
Yeah, he's definitely new to this, you can tell. Chat Mafia is a lot different and it's easy to be overwhelmed. Telling where the bomb was placed was probably not a good idea, but now that it's out we need parity from citi.zen. It really is starting to bother me.
citi.zen has not address BloodyC0bbler's main points (the addendum that makes the plan a lot stronger), Infundibulum's critiques (no response), and he hops on SouthRawrea instantly but disappears after the post. All in all, it's not inspiring confidence in me.
Furthermore, I have a PM from tree.hugger myself. Received it a while ago, but I believe tree.hugger has a circle himself.
From: tree.hugger [ 3260 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: youngminii...
Date: 7/22/10 13:42
Subversion, youngminii, citi.zen, BC(probably), lakrismamma(possibly), and.... we'll say... Siniquity.
The first five are on the same team. Watch for it, and read about it on day one. They have cute little fake arguments, and then citizen and BC throw away their votes, and the others mix it up a little bit. Dunno about siniquity. I'm... 30% sure about the whole bunch, and about 90% sure of the first three.
I'm going to be voting citi.zen if he doesn't attend to these points in a timely fashion. There's no logical sense in proclaiming a town plan with himself as the absolute head if he isn't around to argue for it.
Going to respond to your other PM here as well, to consolidate. Experience makes you seem pro-town. SouthRawrea may be Mafia, but he plays from a genuinely new perspective, while citi.zen has been both town and Mafia enough times. Conclusively, just because somebody seems pro-town doesn't mean they are.
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Original Message:
I found some holes in south rawrea's plan's such as revealing who the bombs are on. Maybe a newb mistake but idk. The last post by him seems pretty genuine though.
Youngmini's saying we should lynch on information. Based on that, lynching BC might sound like an even better option but at the same time I wouldn't want to lose a townie.
I want to vote zeks but that's never going to fly. Not even sure about him either.
This game is so hard rofl.
In truth, I would want to vote....citizen.
I need more info tbh.
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Original Message:
Check SouthRawrea's last post. It would be nice to know who the bombs are on, right? citi.zen is definitely more dangerous/experienced than SouthRawrea, and if he is truly the Hatter then his bombs should at least be on one Mafia. I agreed with citi.zen's plan initially but now that Infundibulum has found so many holes that citi.zen refuses to respond to, I'm leaning more toward citi.zen. Not sure yet, which is why I will hold my vote. What about you?
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arghhh.... who to pick. It's either citizen or south, that much I know.
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Original Message:
He could, but with two claims (and we don't even know about the outside) he could just be fishing for DTs.
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Original Message:
Haha I have no idea why I sent that or what it means.
Maybe I was asking if you thought Citizen really does have a detective in his knowlege.
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Original Message:
What do you mean? What's a Mafia thing?
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Original Message:
Do you think Citizen doesn't really have a mafia thing?
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Also: What should Subversion check tonight?
Date: 7/25/10 05:27
You can? How exactly does DT work. I thought you check and recieve it once night starts.
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You can choose any time during the night?
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Original Message:
kk. I think we only have like 4 hours so...
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Original Message:
Let's think about that more so when the day is nearing an end. Tricode is fine, but how do we confirm the Detective (Subversion) who checks Tricode? Also if Tricode is really legitimate but Subversion is faking, he can just say Tricode was lying, and if BloodyC0bbler and Tricode aren't Mafia, then that offs two very strong town players.
We should think about this check later tonight.
Be back in 10 minutes.
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Original Message:
I'm thinking Tricode. If we get him confirmed as vigi, then we can keep doing citi's plan and since he's safe, people can mass roleclaim to him
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: FAAACK
Date: 7/25/10 00:10
2 claims for DT. I'm going to be up in the spotlight.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: What do you think of
Date: 7/25/10 05:01
Whole post here. Top of the page is the most recent PM to him. I'm the first post at the bottom.
Well, there is no counter-claim to me. Him, I have no clue. 50% chance he is the "fake" Dt rep. You are stranger and stranger with every message.
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Original Message:
T_T
caught again.
Honestly not sure how to respond just because you and him might be mafia. But then again, all this ever did was plan to see if youngmini was GF. Let's just say that youngmini doesn't know who the real DT is.
faaack word slip..
Of course if you and him are both mafia that plan goes to null :/.
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Original Message:
was*
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Original Message:
<--- confused about that sentence.
"he only said he as the dt rep."
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Original Message:
Interesting, he only said he as the DT rep.
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Original Message:
Nah I'm just part of a trust circle. Youngmini's.
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Original Message:
Just to be clear: you are saying you are a DT?
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Original Message:
The people who claimed dt.
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Original Message:
Who is "us"?
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Heh doesn't matter. It was in regards to something else. Yeah, one of us is mafia. My previous thing doesn't mean anything.
But damn, I knew it was a good plan but this far?
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Original Message:
Just happened. The mafia is digging themselves deeper.
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Original Message:
If a triple claim happens PM me first. I'm going to remain purposely vague.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: What do you think of
Date: 7/25/10 03:29
What do you think of tricode getting everyone to roleclaim to him via pms. I mean, he is confirmed townie.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: ONO WHAT DO I DO
Date: 7/24/10 13:26
Well no it just means one of them is mafia.
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Original Message:
Hmm, well you know that's not true. If the Mafia wanted to off citi.zen and a Mafia member counter-claimed that basically gets citi.zen lynched for nothing during the day, right?
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Original Message:
If the other vigi/mad hatter counter claims than cit.zen is mafia. Also, I had something to say in this sentence but I forgot it after Also. T_T
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Original Message:
It's not that I don't trust the plan--it's that I don't trust the timing of the plan. It seems very conveniently placed, but that may just be me. His posts have contributed, but they're mostly just correcting other people's mistakes. I guess that's contribution, but it's really easy to pass off not much as a lot more.
Wait a minute, I must have interpreted. Where does it say he will get himself lynched?
If that's the case then it's definitely more trust-worthy. Mafia would have to be highly intrepid to do this, but as it's been pointed out a lot we are not in a good situation right now. If this plan is genuine, then we are in a good spot. If not, then the game is over. Seems like a huge risk to take doesn't it?
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Original Message:
You don't trust cit.zen? He has a solid plan. If he's a blue he'd probably have wanted to lay low a bit, and his posts have all been contributive. Finally, his plan even inlcudes a way for HIM to get lynched/pointed out as mafia.
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Original Message:
Eh, I think the better thing to have done was to wait for Subversion to make a decision himself. It's his role and he has to play it. We should be okay this time thanks to Subversion actually not being around, but we might not get lucky next time. Let me know everything that's said okay? I don't trust youngminii, and I don't trust citi.zen and his "Detective" since citi.zen hasn't done anything for us all game.
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Original Message:
Your probably right. I was just scared cause I had to either reveal to youngmini about Subversion or let youngmini pm cit.zen.
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Original Message:
Ugh, not a good idea to act on your own, especially if Subversion had PMed.
We can work with what we have; a name is important. When I said cross-check, I meant I would go through the thread and see how said other "Detective" and citi.zen had interacted, and how Detective had interacted with town in general.
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Original Message:
Subversion I got scared about. I think he's afk but at first I sent him a message saying
"cit.zen's plan sounds like a good one. I think you should pm him. Just because we can keep the previous plan the same so if I do you can also bust Youngmini."
But he didn't respond. 6 minutes later I told him what I did. So I was unsure whether he pmed citi/zen first. I hope not, and don't htink so.
Unfortunately, just in case so then cit.zens plan wouldn't be screwed I had to PM cit.zen saying that "If a triple claim happens, pm me first. I'm going to remain purposely vague."
Tried to handle the situation best I could. :/
Also, what do you mean "cross check how the two have intereacted." which two.
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Original Message:
Ah, I see. Hmm...
If citi.zen's got a false DT lined up, let's figure out who he is. Let me know the name, alright? I want to cross-check to see how the two have interacted.
And yeah, I won't tell youngminii. As far as I'm concerned he's still dangerous to the town with his constant urge to point fingers.
Does Subversion know you did this?
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Original Message:
No all Citizen should know is that IM Dt. Therefore, Subversion is still completely safe. Youngmini still thinks I'm dt. And I'm relaying all information to you and subversion.
I didn't tell Youngmini Subversion was DT just in case he IS GF.
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Original Message:
Ah okay...
Not a good idea still, but keep me in the loop alright?
Subversion didn't trust youngminii because he could be Godfather... Remember the way he was posting Day 1 (and 2... and even today...)? It's the type of posting that's begging for a check.
Still not good for us if citi.zen is faking, since he completely destroys a Detective and his circle if that happens...
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Original Message:
That was youngmini who pmed me. I told him I was dt, remember?
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Original Message:
Wait, I'm confused. citi.zen false claiming is a huge gambit, but Mafia are pretty comfortably ahead. Claiming Hatter is nice as well--he won't die during the night (Mafia is afraid of bombs) and that way it doesn't look suspicious if he looks during the day. Furthermore, his claim came in the middle of waiting for BloodyC0bbler to make his post, and right after citi.zen himself had some pressure on him. Timing doesn't seem right.
Is Subversion saying for you not to PM? I'm a bit confused by the end message.
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Original Message:
Him:
The idea is that we don't want the actual DT to needlessly PM at first. If citi.zen is false claiming/the DT that checked citi.zen is false claiming then were screwed if you PM. If someone in your group PMs then it's a lot safer.
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Original MessageMe)
Oh dw I'll do it.
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Original MessageYoungmini)
Yo I'm gonna go ahead and contact citi.zen about the whole DT claim thing (read his post). I'll wait until you reply before doing it.
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fuck now what?
Posting these first, going back to find my (earlier) PMs with Subversion. I haven't had many of them recently since we've both not been around the computer it seems.
Once again, this doesn't say anything definitive about Pandain. I want people to look over these PMs before jumping to conclusions though.
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The rest of the PMs I have with Subversion:
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mafia.
Date: 7/21/10 21:52
It was pretty stupid of me to mention that I have a role. I guess it was a panic AH MY GAD DONT VOTE FOR ME IM SPECIAL kinda moment. I don't really have a problem telling you, as mafia most likely know now I'm blue anyway.
What you say about chaoser rings true. Literally the only thing I'm going on with him is his little "test" that he was running by voting me. It sounded lame and stupid, but also didn't sound scummy to me at all. Just a feeling I guess, but I'm convinced he's not mafia. I also am apparently not very good at this game, lol, so I could be very wrong.
My role isn't night kill, it's detective. 1st night I checked Youngmini (he was 2nd in votes so seemed like a decent choice) and he flipped townie.
Do you know any medics? lol, I really want to tell one to save me!
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Original Message:
You were getting bandwagoned. That's one of the key ways I've found of generally determining if somebody is Mafia or not. Just the fact that so many people jumped on you without providing their own reasons is pretty indicative. Though you do have to be careful about what you say, especially early on. We already can see firsthand the consequences, no? As I mentioned in thread, somebody pointed out in PM to me that post, and I made voting analysis myself. Obviously I didn't post that because it's already been worked to death (this is why you do voting threads as a host; makes it simpler on everybody...) but from the responses and subsequent posting I have come to the conclusion that the town is just pointing fingers, spurred on by Mafia.
Regardless, you read as town to me now. I'll expound upon this further down.
Chaoser seems... suspicious to me. Unlike what I get from you and BrownBear, Chaoser seems more devious. I have to go look at his posting history more carefully, but it's something that I feel more people should be looking at. Especially pay attention to the "connections" Chaoser has made, both those that are antagonistic and the ones that seem more friendly.
Pyrr's post is very convincing, and mostly correct, and it's one of the good leads we have so far--at least it's more convincing than anything else we have. I was going to make a post today on the people that were being pointed at (promised it yesterday) but it seems that part of it has been taken care for me. Still, remember to always go back and look for yourself. Pretend like you never read the post, then try to see if you can draw the same conclusions. As such, I think DTA has a pretty equal chance of being town or Mafia. His past play is strong and logical, though he seems to be bored this game. Is he masking something? He may very well be, though his play style definitely doesn't help the town. If anything, he'll be worth lynching to get avoid getting rid of somebody more likely to be town.
I apologize for the length of this PM, though that's how they all tend to be. At this point though, I want to bring up the mention of roles. You've made two references now to not being a townie, both in thread a while back when you were asking if you should roleclaim and right now. It's a leap of faith asking you to trust somebody, but I want to discuss with you your role, which I am pretty sure is one of the night kill powers. If it is what I think it is, you have no worries in telling anybody your role.
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Original Message:
Bandwagon does seem like its starting to form. Although, to be honest I really felt I was getting bandwagoned! I mean, I made one stupid remark and suddenly everyone was up my ass
I'm glad we're looking at other people now, felt people were so focussed on me and Brownbear that noone was even looking at anyone else. I don't think I would have voted DTA if not for that post; I have been so worried about getting voted off its hard to think about other things besides defense! I was looking at chaoser 'cause his shit has been kind of weird, like voting for me "as a test"? What did that mean? But it seemed like he had some sincere, if not backwards plan so I didn't think he was mafia. Was going to look at DTA 'cause he was the other one with votes, but that's been done for me :D
I did find that post really, really convincing I must say. I am maybe n00b and easily influenced, but I don't know about DTA's history being new, and what that guy said really made a lot of sense.
It seems like the best choice for now, and to be honest, it's good for town if I'm not voted off. So if people are switching to someone else, and with good justification, it seems a good choice to go with that person.
Whats your take on the DTA as mafia thing? What did you think of that post?
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Original Message:
An interesting change of events, wouldn't you say? Though we should be careful not to bandwagon on this. Would you have even thought to have voted for DarthThienAn if it weren't for that post?
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mafia.
Date: 7/22/10 11:02
Cool, hope he doesn't think we're a mafia conspiracy
Chat soon.
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Original Message:
I sent him a PM as well:
No worries, I have the onus of casting a deciding vote as well...
Subversion is blue by the way. Just letting you know; do not vote for him. Between DarthThienAn and Chaoser, I still think DTA is a better target to lynch...
Be back soon.
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Original Message:
Thanks dude.
Pandain just unvoted because of a PM i sent him, so things are looking better for me.
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Original Message:
Don't worry. I'm still confident you won't be the one dying...
I have to go for now, but I will be back later on. Hang tight, my friend.
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Original Message:
Yeah, please vote for him if need be =/
I don't really think I have anything to lose by telling all if I'm literally about to die.
Will only do it though if its me for sure.
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Original Message:
If you flip blue, that's the truth enough... Innocents will still be lynched because of this. Don't think of martyring yourself at this point in the game.
I voted for abstain. Currently though I still think that DTA is top notch on the chopping block, but I will save you if necessary.
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Original Message:
If i'm sure I'm gonna die, I'm just gonna say I checked him night 1 and he's innocent.
That way when I flip blue they'll know I'm telling the truth, and at least won't lynch another innocent.
Have you voted yet? Looks like it may be me
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Original Message:
I haven't even thought about Amber this game... he keeps slipping below my radar.
I will do what I can to save you, if you are the Detective. I think it's a necessary risk I can take to keep you alive so you can check, but at this point if you stay alive you need to become part of the town. And by that I mean you've got to go to the highest source of confirmation we have so far, which is d3_crescentia, since he's pretty much confirmed town. I think between you and the other DT, to make sure that d3 is concretely town and not part of some elaborate Mafia ploy is to pass a check on him. If he turns up town-aligned, good for him. At that point, the risk is smaller than the reward since if d3_crescentia is the Godfather, that means that the other members of the Mafia team have nowhere to hide.
I'm just too suspicious of d3_crescentia still because after being almost ideally confirmed, he has been completely silent. I can just imagine the Mafia being ballsy enough to try this kind of ploy: "they won't suspect d3 being Mafia, since he put himself out there so quickly... don't even have to Godfather him."
This voting scenario is damn tricky right now. Any one vote can tip the balance, and it all comes down to who can post at the end if they really want to kill somebody.
If you do die though, make sure you have somebody to pass the information to. I would suggest youngminii, but he is under a lot of suspicion himself at the moment and I still think it's possible he could be the Godfather himself, and in that case it's an unwarranted risk if you tell it to him alone.
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Original Message:
Yeah, I meant check DTA. Although I'm not really convinced he's scum. Maybe someone a little more under the radar like Amber would be better.
Although now it looks like I'm top of the boot board again, fuck. I can't believe this is all over one stupid remark. Things are starting to look dire for me.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: I hope... Date: 7/22/10 12:52 yeah lets hope so. and hey, maybe we'll get lucky ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I think so, but at this point it's way more risky to vote for somebody else... Luckily, with this large of a game we can afford a lot of mislynches. We have two Veterans, two medics, two night killing powers, verifiable Detectives, and Mafia only have 2 KP instead of 3. At the very least, we will draw a lot of information from whomever is lynched... ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Hahaha, I know right? this is so intense. I really don't think any of the top 3 are mafia tho unfortunately. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Alright, that makes sense. I hope you can just trust in me then for as long as you will. Damn it, 18 to showtime. I'm so nervous right now... ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I think BC is maybe more likely to be the GF. Gonna check Amber. Feel its a waste checking u, i'll prolly be killed or lynched soon, dont want to waste any checks. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I'm worried about the BloodyC0bbler-Amber[LighT] dichotomy. I feel like one of them is Mafia, and probably a Godfather. It's hard to get a read on both because they both don't seem to be around the thread much. If you want to check me to make absolutely certain that you've got somebody to trust, go ahead. I have no special powers though, and it's probably better for you to try to hook up with other blues. Town needs to get organized... hopefully we can have another good night. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Heh, its funny I've been thinking the same thing I have been strongly, strongly considering doing a DT check on you. Mafia is funny like that. I am who I say I am though. And I think I'm checking Amber next, he smells scummy as hell. I'm really worried they've made him Godfather though. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: That I've made the right decision in trusting you...
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Check tonight.
Date: 7/23/10 09:35
think ill check BC rather
what do u think?
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Original Message:
Wait, you're checking Amber right?
I've been doing a bit of digging and Amber seems to be playing very inconspicuously. Doesn't add much to town, but does pop up to say "hey you guys are stupid" once in a while. BC is like this as well, but he's made the most pro-town post so far but it was ignored due to all the flaming, and when I brought it up again it was ignored as well.
Case in point, if you, as I do, believe that Amber is GF, do not contact him immediately. I have a belief that if Amber took the Godfather role, he has either chosen a blue role that seems out of the ordinary to lure Detectives into going "hey I checked you you were ___." Talk to people you trust first (I hope I am one of them) before bringing new people into your circle.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mafia just got more interesting...
Date: 7/23/10 15:42
awesome, sounds good.
sleep well ^_^
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Original Message:
Ahh my bad, I just went through PMs and checked--you did. I must have forgotten with the way Day 2 was going...
Sigh, I'm making one big post detailing the cases. Hopefully the town will follow it. I hope you and Pandain can get some work done this weekend... this is really bad timing for me in real life haha.
Will talk to you tomorrow, good sir.
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Original Message:
youngminii is town, checked him 1st check.
sorry thought i'd told u that already ^_^
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Original Message:
Ahh, sorry. I just had to keep cards close to the table until night was over you know? Now that we have a circle going though, I think we're fine. I told Pandain this, but I have guests coming over for the weekend that I have to entertain, so I won't be able to spend too much time here, but keep me informed alright? Ask him about the latest PM I sent him--it seems tree.hugger is dangerous.
Very suspicious of youngminii as well, since he tries to throw so much dirt on BC. I think there's a higher chance of BC being legitimate at this point and youngminii trying to stop a town circle than vice versa. Either way, we don't need to talk to him now unless you want to.
Got to go to bed in a few, guests in the morning.
Let's win this for the town; we got analysis to do.
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Original Message:
hmmm okay.
Just feel a little out of the loop when he PM's me and says "so u checked amber"
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Original Message:
Yeah, I think we can trust him...
Hope I'm not messing up, but my feelings have been okay so far.
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Original Message:
im guessing ur in communication with pandain?
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Original Message:
It's the most common choice, so it's a definite possibility.
Ugh this is not good for us right now... we need the Vigilante to claim to make sure it's a legitimate claim from BC.
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Original Message:
amber.
do u think he woulda chosen vanilla townie as GF?
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Original Message:
Which "he", Amber or BC?
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Original Message:
that is what im worried about =/
but he may have chosen a better role than vanilla townie.
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Original Message:
Hmm... definitely would have been easier to check BC, and we'd get more out of it.
Townie is good. I guess you can start talking to Amber, unless you suspect him of being GF.
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Original Message:
nope, checked amber.
got back vanilla townie.
dont quite know what to make of that.
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Original Message:
BloodyC0bbler claims he took a hit last night. Did you check him? That's the last PM I have from you and I didn't have time to respond.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: citi.zen's plan.
Date: 7/24/10 19:51
just feel like im losing control of the situation here. he's a bit impulsive, and i'd rather make the decisions myself than have to keep going thru him. also may seem suspicious later on.
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Original Message:
It was kind of weird that he did so... on his own as well. That could have potentially owned you if you had done so at the same time...
If you are going to do so, at least wait the time period okay? We might still have a counter-claim. If I were citi.zen and red, trading one red is worth getting two Detectives, since then the town has no way to find Mafia, right? Even so, I think it's too risky. What's wrong with using Pandain anyway, beyond the "convolution" factor.
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Original Message:
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Original Message:
What do you think of it?
There are a few holes...
Not bad at all.
Some things I need to explain.
I checked young and he was townie. But the problem is him ORR amber COULD be GF. So pandain and I had this plan. pandain pm'd young and told him HE was the DT and had checked him. now we wait and see if pandain dies next, then we know young is scum.
But now with citizen's plan, pandain has PM'd citizen saying he is the DT. He did this without waiting for a response from me, he's a bit of a loose cannon like that, keeps making decisions without my approval.
anyway, i told him now that we need to tell citizen and the other DT that I am in fact the real DT, or else it gets way too convoluted, and obviously explain the plan about young.
this may be risky, but he keeps taking decisions into his own hands now, and i dont like that. I don't want to have to do everything through him anymore.
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