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On July 01 2010 17:12 Bill Murray wrote:
a random day 1 lynch might win the game for us
your plan would ruin the game for us
the fact you are pushing for a plan which draws the game out where the mafia have unlimited recruitment nights.................................... just stop now if you aren't red.
How does that ruin the game?? We have to lynch, so we lynch who we think is godfather and we roleblock who we think is most likely to be mafia.
Just stop arguing with me with poor logic now if you aren't red. (Legit complaints are addressed, ex when someone brought up the fact that we might not have a roleblocker, or suggesting extending it to two days because roleblocker can block for no more than two nights in a tow, etc.)
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Also losing a vet is not a big deal in my opinion. They would die to lynch anyway, and the only other role that reacts the same was as they do is the GF. I'm okay killing someone who's 50/50 vet/GF.
My plan only makes us kill less townies, and the same number of mafia.
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On July 01 2010 16:45 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2010 16:36 Bill Murray wrote:On July 01 2010 13:18 BrownBear wrote:In this game, it looks like the middle is in more danger than the strong players, as most people (myself included) think they'll be recruited. And now everyone's placing me in the middle pool. Curses. Gotta work harder at being a better player. I'm not striving to be the best player, but I do want to work my skill level to a point where I can at least be considered very good. But now for some funtimes. Korynne: On July 01 2010 12:02 Korynne wrote:
I personally put BrownBear down with A5J and Hesmyrr, he's not quite as active as I'd like him to be, whereas me and YInk post a lot more I think. Referring to BM's list, placing me as a player minimally likely to be recruited. Then, next page: On July 01 2010 12:33 Korynne wrote:
So probably if I was GF I would go for middle of the road people, like BrownBear/Hesmyrr/AcrossFiveJulys. Enough skill to not like, out the entire mafia somehow, and under the radar enough to not be under heavy scrutiny like citi.zen or L. OBJECTION! That is a contradiction, missy. Explain yourself? Hey, being "minimally likely" is better than "no fucking chance". The way you've been posting this game, I would recruit you. Is that a compliment?  But I'm slightly confused. You have this awesome big long post responding to a bunch of people, including MAJORLY pointing FoS at Korynne... then you decide to lynch A5J for a jeep tell, saying he's the only obvious scumtell so far? Wut?
I wasn't going to address this, even though I desired to earlier, as I wanted to "only make good posts", but since Korynne irritated me enough to take me away from attempting my goal, and i've broken it, i'll respond to this now. Korynne, though acting oddly, may not be scum. If you noticed in my post I label her as a "traitor" in all likelihood. Her acting this way might just be that she has a weird new role, so I would not want to lynch her as much as FoS on her because she is likely to be traitor, coroner, jailkeeper, roleblocker, whatever moreso than likely to be godfather as there are just simply more chances of being town than of being godfather and acting the way she is.
the way this game is set up we need to keep what blue roles we have, and all of you guys shouldn't claim unless a single mason can, assuming we have a jailer to keep them locked up and protect them. We could possibly do this with a DT later, too, right? I want to preserve our blue roles, so if you're a townie, it might be advisable to fake a claim and get recruited.
My pushing for AcrossFiveJulys is because I feel like he took us into seriousland with his scummy 3rd vote...................... in the RVS. This essentially ended the RVS. I am a fan of the Random Voting Stage, as it fits my style of play. It may just be that A5J doesn't realize. Ignorance is bliss...
If people would have listened to me last game, though, we would have probably won.
The case on A5J is stronger than anyone else's case so far
His play is also fitting of how the Godfather would play,
and he is of a caliber to be selected (I DONT CARE IF IT WAS "RANDOM")
Plain and simple, A5J is possible scum, and as he made the game serious, let's put pressure on him and make it more serious.
I'm not saying "lynch him" 100%
lets make him post more
scummy voting like he did is proof that he has been actively lurking imo. that is scummy too.
his 3rd vote on a wagon not only taking us out of RVS is also literally a scumtell found here:
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=JEEP's_Tells_for_Finding_Mafia
I have more experience than a lot of you, and more experience than any of the "more experienced" of you in the past couple months. I have been playing in a game that I have been in for over 3 months. I know how scum play right now, and A5J fits the description. Put pressure on him, force a claim, and lynch him if he is a liar.
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On July 01 2010 17:23 Korynne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2010 17:12 Bill Murray wrote:
a random day 1 lynch might win the game for us
your plan would ruin the game for us
the fact you are pushing for a plan which draws the game out where the mafia have unlimited recruitment nights.................................... just stop now if you aren't red. How does that ruin the game?? We have to lynch, so we lynch who we think is godfather and we roleblock who we think is most likely to be mafia. Just stop arguing with me with poor logic now if you aren't red. (Legit complaints are addressed, ex when someone brought up the fact that we might not have a roleblocker, or suggesting extending it to two days because roleblocker can block for no more than two nights in a tow, etc.)
mafia can recruit night 7 8 9 10 whatever korynne
just drop it.
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we need to find the godfather
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We can go back to your plan if we don't have a mason claim in the next 24 hours.
Your plan is like communism, though, it looks good on paper but won't work.
heed my words
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Neither of the plans presented by Korynne or L should be pursued. Take the advice that I've outlined (unless anyone sees any flaws in it - none have voiced any yet) and apply it to yourself as appropriate.
But most importantly be active.
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To put some numbers on it, if we have 1 jailkeep and 1 pair of free masons, the jailkeep targets a random target, the godfather targets a random target except the mafia already recruited:
The godfather will fail due to hitting a mason 2/18 11.1%
The godfather will fail due to jailkeep protection 1/19 5.3%
After accounting for overlap of these effects, the godfather will fail 15.8%
Outing a mason and jailing them drops the godfather failure to 5.9%
This is the 10% L refers to.
Consider that a second jailkeep increases the jailkeep protection effect by almost as much as the first. Now L's plan is losing us 15%.
Also keep in mind that this 'paltry' 10% goes into effect every time the godfather recruits. The mason effect gets larger over time as well since the godfather won't target the same person twice (assuming the godfather didn't hit a mason previously - if they did, we've won a significant victory). Having free masons unknown to the populace is an enormous boon to the town.
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I am not good at math, but you make it easy.
What do you think about lynching A5J, Yellow?
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Okay, I want to talk about a very important role that I didn't see anyone talk about in depth.
How is the coroner going to use his ability ?
I do believe he needs to use it when we kill someone we are almost sure to be the Godfather. However it shouldn't be used too early as it gives a damn lot of information.
I think if we manage to catch the Godfather before day 3 we are in a good situation and day 3 would be a nice time for the coroner to use his ability if we think the godfather has been caught. This way we know if we are safe (he is killed, 3 mafia+ traitor max) or if we are in trouble. Else if we don't have certainties, do we want to wait and risk losing the coroner or do we ask him to use his ability mid-game to be sure ?
I do agree that our first goal is to kill the Godfather but I want to add that we need to make sure that it's really him.
What are your thoughts about that ?
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Doesn't really matter ElyAs, just pretend we didn't kill the GF and after a couple nights if KP doesn't really go up we're kind of okay. I would say one coroner check after 3-5 days?
BM's playing style this game is /really/ different from previous games. He'll pulling all kinds of stuff on us. It's really creepy, because it feels like he's trying to help and is legitly saying like, useful things... this makes me confused and I don't know what to make of it. =S
YellowInk is against my plan. =( And he just wants to roleblock a "good" player. Not sure I like what he's doing either. Not quite as loud as usual but we'll have to see as the days go on.
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What we need to do now is just wait on L to wake up. He will tell us what to do.
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I also feel like he will support my lynch
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yellowink, take the time away from your empty mafia IRC channel and answer my question
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What do you think about lynching A5J, Yellow?
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BM, are you just mad that I trashed you in your HP thread? You've been gunning to lynch me since the moment the day began lol. If you really think that being 3rd to vote for elyas is scummy, I will justify it in the same way I did right before the vote post: elyas has been an inactive and useless player in both games I've played with him, so if someone's gonna die today I'd choose him. Of course, if I hear a good argument for someone else I'd change my vote in a heartbeat.
If you just think I'm a likely person to be recruited due to my perceived skill level and name recognition in relation to everyone else in the game (most have been saying middle of the line), then I would say you probably have your head on straight. Go ahead and keep pressuring me, I can take it.
On that note, one person we should keep an eye on is citizen. He is a decent player, but is very quiet even when he's town. He'd be a good person for mafia to recruit.
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On July 01 2010 17:15 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2010 14:06 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:On July 01 2010 13:56 L wrote:
I want to know what people think about the following idea; We have one of the two masons claim. Given that we have verrrrry likely have medic(s), they can prot him and keep him alive during the game. If the player is lying, one (not both!) of the real masons can call him out. Given the fact that there are only 2 total mafia members today, it would cost the mafia essentially half their team to contest the mason claim. This is also a reason why claiming immediately would be more helpful than claiming at a later date. The downsides of this? Godfather now has a person he knows not to recruit, and the mason might die once mafia kp gets over 1.
If we do that, we have a confirmed townie who can essentially drive our vote; if he's wrong, cool beans, it happens. If he's right; awesome. Either way, it'll prevent exploitable intra-town conflicts. I don't like this idea. The 2 masons are going to be a thorn in the mafia's side until they die. Giving one of them up only gives us the benefit of having a confirmed townie who can do... what? We should use our collective thoughts to out the mafia, not a single person. Now, if it looks like a mason is going to be lynched, the mason should definitely role claim... if a mafioso is doing this, one of the real masons will come out and say it which would be a good trade. This is a bad plan. If I were scum about to be lynched, I'd totally claim free mason to force them to out. First off, the scum have nothing to lose by making such a claim and 'forcing' a real mason to out themselves. Second, the masons lose a lot of their power when they are 'out'. The #1 power of free masons is that when the godfather recruits them, the recruiting fails. This is why I also have to object to L's plan.
That's a very good point, nice catch. I should have thought about it a bit more.
If we're about to lynch a mason, if the masons feel it's worth it to out both masons to divert the lynch, they should both claim. This way if scum lies to do so, they're giving something up. Yeah, doing this for the town will reveal our masons, but it's better than lynching them. No sole mason claim is going to convince me of anything - nor should it of you. It gives up 0 information, scum can do this at will.
Yeah, I think that's the only way to do it, unfortunately. Giving up 2 masons sucks but at least we can jail/protect them.
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On July 01 2010 18:53 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
BM, are you just mad that I trashed you in your HP thread? You've been gunning to lynch me since the moment the day began lol. If you really think that being 3rd to vote for elyas is scummy, I will justify it in the same way I did right before the vote post: elyas has been an inactive and useless player in both games I've played with him, so if someone's gonna die today I'd choose him. Of course, if I hear a good argument for someone else I'd change my vote in a heartbeat.
If you just think I'm a likely person to be recruited due to my perceived skill level and name recognition in relation to everyone else in the game (most have been saying middle of the line), then I would say you probably have your head on straight. Go ahead and keep pressuring me, I can take it.
On that note, one person we should keep an eye on is citizen. He is a decent player, but is very quiet even when he's town. He'd be a good person for mafia to recruit.
1) don't reference ongoing games
2) quit making up lies, i only pushed for you after i noticed your scummy vote in the RVS. you are likely scum, so i am voting for you.
3) though I agree with you on citi.zen, he is probably a blue role. Coroner imo. You, on the other hand, are the Godfather.
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I may be tunneling here, but in this setup, one has to when they have an inkling they know who the godfather is, and i feel like I know it is A5J. Go vote to lynch A5J and put pressure on him.
@A5J
I am also irritated you ended the RVS at all in the first day of day 1
that is serious scummy behavior
also when you post "I will justify it in the same way I did right before the vote post: elyas has been an inactive and useless player in both games I've played with him, so if someone's gonna die today I'd choose him. Of course, if I hear a good argument for someone else I'd change my vote in a heartbeat." the fact that you feel like you need to justify yourself to me is also an indication that you are worried about how the thread will perceive you. you are worried that you may do something that will make you appear scum, and you don't post a lot, but when i pressure you you feel the need to defend yourself in case you might get lynched tomorrow morning (which you will).
You really didn't defend yourself all that well, you didn't really defend why you made the voting so serious, and you probably didn't even realize how your active lurking and scummy voting was making you appear.
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As a result, while we are going to be discussing our course of action as a town (as 85% of us are still town), keep in mind we are going to be lynching AcrossFiveJulys for being the first person to be the third person on a wagon when still in the random voting stage which isn't supposed to be that serious.
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EPT
